Steve Gleiber's Arsenal Supporters Forum

Chippys Chisler
April 21, 2005

Anybody think that Ashton of Norwich would be a good buy if they go down? AW said he looked at him before but he was too expensive. He is big and strong (and young) and has a good touch and would only cost Ł3-4m unlike Trezugeut. I dont know if I could handle another sulkibg French forward. Even more than Titi if things are not going right Trezugeut looks like he cannot be arsed.

Cannon Balls
April 21, 2005

Decaf,Terry said last night that keeping a clean sheet was their main priority and they have now egualed our record albeit though by using different tactics.The fact that those tactics are neanderthal and pragmatic is irrelevant to their success,that is the way i and many others perceive them to be and not just Arsenal supporters either - plain boring. Someone else on here pointed out that with an 11 point lead the Chavs should have turned on the style and to raptatorous cries of o'la while out-passing and beating us and then ran amok celebrating their victory. Unfortunately for the Chavs the only football placed on offer like that was served up by Arsenal.

busta da real gooner
kiwisaregay@lycos.co.uk
April 21, 2005

Post removed due to bad language

GoonerForever
April 21, 2005

Trezeguet would be a good player to have for champions league away games as he is a presence in the box and equally good in the air as on the ground. However, whenever I have seen him play with Henry for France, he has been a big disappointment. Whether it would work in Arsenals system I don't know but I certainly think he could replace Henry when hes out.

andy
April 21, 2005

Grunny - a reasonable MU fan at last. Two things. Diving - All teams have players who do it - Ronaldo and RvN, Ljungberg and Vieira, Cole and Gudjohnson all hit the deck too easily. It's clever play if it's one of yours, cheating if it's not. So really a pointless argument in my view. Rio's ban wasn't unfair. Missing a test has to carry the same weight as failing a test otherwise the whole testing edifice falls apart.

Hedges
April 21, 2005

Oh and Grunny, having looked at the replay numerous times, I still don't believe in all honesty that pires dived during our streak.... and what a streak it was!!!!!! Have you ever won the championship at Highbury??????

busta da real gooner
kiwisarefay@lycos.co.uk
April 21, 2005

Post removed due to bad language

Decaf
April 21, 2005

Cannonball. If Chelsea's tactic are "Neanderthal", I want you to explain to me why they are so effective? It would be interesting to check your hypothesis that defenses are on top in the premiership this season. Have fewer goals been scored this season, I wonder? I also don't really believe that our winning last night would have dented Chelsea. As I said before, I think they are good at doing what they need to, and when they do have a bad result, they are very good at getting over it. Maureen talks the talk, and I am hoping that he will begin to believe his own hype sooner or later and come a cropper. However, at the moment, I suspect he is horribly pragmatic, and very much in control.

Decaf
April 21, 2005

Niall
April 21, 2005

Where was Rio when Big Dunc was heading the ball into the net though. Conspicuous by his absence I thought.

Cannon Balls
April 21, 2005

Decaf,there are a couple of flaws in your hypothesis about that which says that Chelsea played for a draw last night and got what they wanted.Deserved perhaps,but wanted???.That would appear unlikely because even should they beat Fulham in Saturdays Derby they will still not have won the title because of failing to beat us last night. And they will need now to beat Bolton away, no forgone conclusion that they will get six points from those games. And Mourinho plus Kenyon have made it clear that they want the title wrapped up before the CL tie against Liverpool. Also Mourinho boasted that he would win the title in April, then again he claimed he would win four trophies too, so he's either a fool or a liar, well we know he is a liar because he's been convicted for lying by Uefa. Also the fact is that Chelsea play like they did last night all of the time anyway, you obvisously have not sen much of them, they used the same tactics against Steve Bruces lowly Brum,who were beaten 3-0 last night by City, and even when a goal down against Brum at home were still hoofing it up to Drogba, although it paid off with the equalizer resulting from these neanderthal football tactics, which are dressed up by runs out of defence carrying the ball on occasions by Duff and Robben. With Bolton likely to be a draw the Chavs will need a point at OT or if they lose there then one at Newcastle where they lost last season when in the same situation. So i do not believe that they played for or were happy - nor did they look it at the end of last nights match to have dropped those two points, they always play not to get beat by defending in depth,nothing new planned or done last night.The points they need to win the title could now go to the last game of the season and 'squeeky bum time'.Incidentaly if we had won last night i believe we would have gone on and retained our title this season.

Decaf
April 21, 2005

An extremely childish, totally politically incorrect Aussi comedian, who had a lot to say and sing about about (amongst other thinks) pleasing sheep. For example: Something like (note my use of quotes, choc, even though I am not verbatim) 'Driving down the street with granddad. "Can you make a U-turn, grandad?" "No, sonny, but I can make her eyes pop."' etc. I blush, but I found it very funny 20 years ago. No doubt I would he horrified and disgusted now. Nevertheless, sounds like a direct answer to your question to Kiwi.

goonerguru
April 21, 2005

Is that the reyes we bought 12 months ago,someone said he is playing out of position but he should still be able to put a few passes together and beat the odd defender he also used to be able to hit a crisp shot but now everything is scuffed,he is trying hard maybe he is trying too hard but either way he is no use to us at all now and what ever Wenger says about him I can't see him at the Arse next season but on this form who the bloody hell would buy him.

Hedges
April 21, 2005

Grunny - Imo, Vieira owned Lampard in the match. Lampard, apart from his desperate great tackle in our box was nowhere to be seen for so much of the much and like the first game at Highbury, Vieira looked a class above him. Terry looked very weak and if it wasn't for Carvaliho (sp??) their defence would've looked very suspect. Furthermore, Rio is a great defender and him _ Sol are def the best England combination going round atm, no questions..Sol just needs to regain fitness and confidence. And Senderos looks the part, looked confident for a kid his age on such a stage. Can't wait for 2-3 years time when he has much more experience. And Grunny I agree atm I don't know a btter RB in the Prem than Neville but that necessarily isn't a compliment to the old Manc, although he isn't bad but a reflection of the lack of quality in that area in the Prem atm.

Decaf
April 21, 2005

You can't blame Chelsea for us being 11 points behind (well of course you can but you know what I mean, even if I haven't any hope that Choc or Bernard will). Why on earth would Chelsea risk losing to us and setting the cat among the pigeons, or (more likely) giving us some momentum for next season? Chelsea know we've had a humiliating enough season (try getting done home and away by Manure for starters; and fact that the gap is 11 points for mains; and the fact that we've had to have flourless chocolate gooner cake for pud). "Negative" football WAS going out of fashion because teams that sat back were getting their just rewards. What has happened? Why did Greece win the Euro, etc, etc? I think its because the great attacking teams (France, Real, Arsenal etc) have slipped up, rather than there being any great tactical innovation or improvement in defending. Blah blah ...

Daz
April 21, 2005

No, decaf, never heard of him. Who he?

grunny
April 21, 2005

In response to the endless pleading and begging, I have decided to grace this forum with my presence for at least a while longer. Much as it pains me to admit, my beloved team does look a spent force at the moment and will require much off-season surgery to restore us to our glory years. Besides, you guys need a Manc to keep you all honest. I can't let heresy like "Bergkamp was better than Cantona" slide. I watched both Arsenal v Chelsea and Man Utd v Everton today and as a neutral spectator (well almost, I just hate Arsenal that much more) I thought it was a fabulous game highlighted by class matchups all over the field. None were better than Lampard and Vieira who waged a war of the highest quality. Vieira edged it, but Lampard's cover tackle when Pires was about to shoot in the 2nd half was magnificent. I am, however, disgusted by my team's performance which was both insipid and ill-disciplined. RVN is clearly not back to anywhere near his best, and in a discussion I had with a fellow supporter after the game, we agreed that testing his market value this offseason wouldn't be so harsh, considering that money could be used to find replacements for Keane and Giggs. Rio looked imperious as always, and I will be appalled if he fails to re-sign. We stood by him during his grossly unfair ban and he owes us his services from here on end. Great defender, even you Gooners should admit it! Gary Neville should know better and if he misses the FA Final I will be upset. Despite him being much maligned, if there's a better right back in the Premiership, I havn't seen him. Scholesy is so important to us, but his ban should only be 1 game so he'll be raring to get stuck in to you guys at Cardiff. Oh and one more thing: Will anyone on this board concede that whining over Rooney's "dive" against you guys this season should entitle Portsmouth fans to whine about Pire's dive against them during your 49 game streak? Karma boys...karma...

Hedges
April 21, 2005

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=331299&cc=3436 Trezeguet says he wants to come to Arsenal to link up tith TH14. he says "I'm sure it will happen one day." What you guys reckon of this possible move?? Dunno if he is necessarily the one we need, good player from the limited times I've seen him but not the out and out best..

grunny
April 21, 2005

Niall
April 21, 2005

Only one team who wanted to play football last night and that was us. Chelsea really are the most negative champions I've ever seen. 11 points clear and a chance to make our season even more miserable and what do they do. Stick 11 men behind the ball and hoof it up to Drogba once again. Anyway, great to see Arsenal taking shape again with some outstanding performances from Senderos, Gilberto, Paddy V and indeed Lauren whose first half showing was impeccable when he had the inexperienced Cesc in front of him. Though we obviously missed Henry I also think the runs of Ljungberg were also a big miss last night as the infuriating aspect of our performance again last night was the inability to get men into the box. With a few bob spent in the summer and with a severely muscled up Aliadiere hopefully seeing more first team action I'm confident we'll take the title back next season. All in all, I reckon we're progressing nicely and it was great reading the plaudits from the press this morning about Arsenal playing football with zip and confidence yet again. Reyes was disappointing again and although he tried hard, things aren't coming off for him atm and he lacks confidence. The game is up for Dennis as well I think and he should be allowed to go to Ajax and remain forever an Arsenal legend. All in all, lots of positives to take from the game and I thought Wenger's pre-match and post match comments were spot on. If only Pires had buried one of those chances I reckon we'd have picked them off nicely. How pish poor was Drogba's finishing though, Ł24m you gotta laugh.

DHD
April 21, 2005

Daz - I'm afraid I'm with you on the JAR thing; he brings a whole new meaning to ‘lightweight’. There were one or two decent touches from him but most of last night he was either anonymous or annoying. You could argue he shouldn't have been booked because the defender did actually catch him but with a clear run on goal yet he chose to go down. Trouble was he went down too late so it looked feigned. He could have ridden that tackle and done something positive for the team but the easy way beckoned and he took it, as he has in every such situation for months now. Most refs have him well and truly pegged and in all honesty, you couldn't blame them. He could do with the TA6 lecture about poles and arses.

Juliano
April 21, 2005

Daz-Warning, truss post. Arsenal.com have just issued a page on the joining of the roof structures, with pictures of fisman symbolicaly tightening the last bolt, and boy does he look tiny compared to the whole thing! This is really massive!

Decaf
April 21, 2005

What a pity Pires's shot didn't go in! Then we would have seen whether a team containing Senderos could defend a 1-0 lead. I suspect (reading between the lines) that Chelsea got exactly what they wanted, and who can blame them? That's what we need to do more of: achieve the results we need, whether it is a 2-0 win, a draw, or a 3-2 loss in Chelsea got in Bayern. We need to get the results we need (need I add that US* Martian is my guru?). Why not turn van Persie into proper striker? He looks like one to me. Daz, you are obviously unfamiliar with the dreadful Rodney Rude?

Daz
April 21, 2005

Reyes is a E*G, Cannon Balls. He squealed about Madrid but then when he didn't put in the perfomances to get their attention he started bleating about being happy at Arsenal. I hope he goes asap. And I couldn't care less about the "he'll be a great player" theory. Sadly, not for us so better he does it in Spain although I have my doubts.

Sir Basil
April 21, 2005

Bernard, Im not for one minute advocating Van persie and Aliadiere start in front of a fit Henry but from what I have seen of them I do feel that they would complement each other well, with Dennis reaching the end of his career and Reyes never really impressing as a central striker it would seem to be the ideal time to see if there is any mileage in playing them together.

bubblechris
April 21, 2005

Chelsea are worthy champs i'm glad we lost it to them and not the manks. My thoughts are PV4 was magnificent and my MOM was Bobby Pires. I still think Jose isnt all there yet and would rather se RVP starting a few games. Cesc is not a right winger and does not provide the Freddie type movements into the box so we are lacking another dimension. Still think back line of Toure Cesc Sol and Ashley will be magnificent and will give us an better attacking option on the right. AW is too conservative and needs to sort out a Plan B we seem to plug away at defences like Chelseas but dont really get into effective positions ie actual shots on goal. Please AW take a risk or two and we will be the best for years to come. The future is Bright the future is RED up the gooners. Wev desprately need som good strong mature squad players i hope AW buys sensibly and gets us of to the right start next eason, we cant afford to lose early games just to bed in new players.

Cannon Balls
April 21, 2005

We needed a striker to put the finishing touches to our good approach work last night unfortunately he was sitting on the bench. And on the subject of strikers David Trezuget is saying that he wants to join up with Henry at Highbury.They have not looked like a partnership made in heaven when turning out for France together, but perhaps AW could work the oracle if it transpires that Trezeguet does come to Highbury, which according to Trez is what Titi wants. And what he wants he usually gets. Wenger touched upon the fact in his post match interview that we had looked lightweight up front against Chelsea, which makes his insistence on keeping the lightweightinefectual Reyes on seem rather strange. On the plus side our MF is better than the Chavs their one only matched ours in the second period when the exhertions of the Cardiff Semi began to take their toll. Anyone who thinks that Lampard is better than Vieria needs to buy a White stick and a guide dog.

Daz
April 21, 2005

You're right, Harlow that the games that really decided it for us were Palace, WBA, Southampton (twice) etc although a veteran like yourself knows that "should have" is a poor performer when it comes to buttering parsnips. That period was deeply depressing because I've never seen Arsenal respond to a setback like that and Wenger must take some blame for that. The thing with Ferguson was utterly pathetic and embarrassing. On Gilberto, he was absolutely pony for a long period and it was quite right to say that. He's looking better now but then Edu also looked very good when he came back for a brief period and I don't hear people jumping up and down about that one. Paul Davis took a lot of stick at the beginning and turned into my favourite player. I'd be more than happy if the invisible man did the same but I'm not too optimistic. What I will say is that Vieira does appear to play better with him so that's a good thing.

Mee
April 21, 2005

The seeds for Cheleas’s refusal to mount anything but a rearguard action last night were planted earlier in the season as we struggled in games against the likes of Southampton and WBA. Those dropped points in games we should have won have given Chelsea the comfort of knowing that even a defeat would not seriously weaken their march to the title. An early goal for us might have encouraged them to be more offensive (although they did create good chances). On the plus side, is it merely coincidence that the emergence of Senderos has resulted in our defence looking as tight as Chelsea’s? His influence in helping to organize the positional play of the back line was a reminder of TA6 and the impregnable back four. If we look beyond the title and the points tally, and focus on the quality of some of our football, particularly in the opening phase of the game, it remains at a level unequalled in the PL this or any other season. I cannot agree with some people that what we are lacking is the more muscular presence of someone like Yakubu, offering us another option. I think we have to be true to the simple ideals that Wenger insists upon, fast flowing, quick tempo, one touch football which demands great technique. This season we will not win the title, but we have played the kind of football in patches which other teams and more vitally their supporters can only dream about.

Bernard
April 21, 2005

Sir Basil, I'm willing to go with the idea of playing van Persie and Aliadiere together while Henry is injured, but when he's fit there's rightfully only one place open up front, so they shouldn't play together then.

david.d
April 21, 2005

in the first 25 minutes we played football that chelsea could only dream about. our possession, passing ,movement and attacking threat was a joy to behold. as the match wore on the match evened out but i was proud of the boys last night. we ARE a match for chelsea no doubt about that and there seems to be a mutual respect between the two teams. i dont respect their conduct off the pitch but at least they came to play football which is more than you can say for united at times. as much as i love sol and want to see him back i think it will be very very harsh if senderos drops out. this boy has been a revelation and his clean sheets read as blackburn twice , middlesbro , bolton , bayern munich , portsmouth , sheff utd and chelsea. could it be toure will be dropped? but then again he doesnt deserve to be either. its a tricky one but we now have 3 very good centre backs and that is very welcome. reyes did ok yesterday but i thought van persie should have been brought on sooner while gilberto and viera not forgetting cesc were excellent. viera slowly looks like the player of old now he has gilberto alongside him. lauren was solid and i cant understand the criticism he gets sometimes. he is a no nonsense and goes about his job quietly. i for one think he is a great player. a good performance by us and made even better by utd's surprise defeat at everton. a nice 4 point cushion now. lets not throw it away now. roll on spurs!!

Steve Martin
April 21, 2005

When Alidiere came on against Balckburn, I thought he had five shirts on underneath his Arsenal top, he looked massive, he must have been in the Gym everyday for the past 6 months...

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

Danny, how can you say that re Aliadiare, 7 or 8 mins here or there hardly gives us a chance to assess his potential, he needs full games. No reason now why AW can't put him in and drop Reyes. Post match AW stated that the game plan was to start with pace and try for an early goal so Chelski would have to come out and play, he kenw they would be happy with a draw. So unfortunate RP hitting the bar. You have to believe that had TH been playing we would have got one.

Steve Martin
April 21, 2005

And those who found it necessary to pick on Gilberto, come out and admit it you were wrong...

Steve Martin
April 21, 2005

Daz... You know me; the glass is half full... I agree with you with regards to our performances against the big boys... However, Chelsea at home we should have won… Man Utd away, we should have got at least a draw, we were cheated in that game and the record of 50 matches unbeaten (after 40 odd years supporting this club) that has to be the single, worse, result in which your team never stood a chance, because it was not down to football, but decisions by one man... That result also knocked confidence, which may have been a factor in our poor run of results... As I have said before, had we lost, fair and square, things might have been different… Man Utd at home, we started well, but United won fair and square 4-2… Last night, much better, but still only a draw, so you rightly point out 2 out of 12 points… Chelsea so far have 5 out of 9… Man Utd have 6 out of 9… The results this season have more to do with the results against team outside the top three than those they played against each other… If we had beaten Chelsea twice, we would be 5 points behind them… United beat us twice but a four points behind us… had United beat Chelsea, they would be 9 points behind Chelsea… Still like you I have enjoyed this season, mainly for the youngsters, a lot have come in, we are in the FA CUP final, they got us to the League Cup SF and we are second in the league, not bad considering what has happened this year… four the umpteenth season our season goes onto the last game, having an interest right up to the end… next season looks promising, with the addition of a couple of new players and the continuing promise of our youngsters… Think, United finished 15 points behind us last year, and are 15 points behind Chelsea this year, so far… They have really gone to pot, and spent a fortune in the process, now that’s what I call poor…

Daz
April 21, 2005

Or is the glass half-empty, Harlow? This season we have taken 2 points from a possible 12 in the big matches that more or less decide this cnampionship. When we had to beat United we couldn't do it, when we had tobeat Chelsea we couldn't do it. When we needed a ballsy 2-0 victory to stay in the Champion League we couldn't do it. I agree that our consistency is great and I've been very happy watching the younger players start to come through so I've quite enjoyed this season. But you can't say that our big match temperament is anything to write home about - it's been E*Gs for a while and it needs to be sorted big time. Everybody's Brad Pitting themself about United in the final because we know that we''re more than capable of not doing what has to be done.

Steve Martin
April 21, 2005

All hail the invisible shield, making the team whole again... It really bugs me that fans can have an opinion on the game, yet, basically, their actual knowledge of the simple game, is very poor... A team consists of 11 players, and five substitutes… Depending on what team your playing or how the mangers wishes, the formation of the team is set out as 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-4-2, 5-4-1 Etc… All the players are important to the team doing well… Forwards cannot score on their own and need the rest of the players to assist (unless you’re TH14)… Defenders have to be solid, play together as a unit, and need the support if the defending midfielders… Midfielders, have to be defensive (see above) as well as playmakers… Goalkeepers have to concentrate for the whole game, and most great goalkeepers always have a really good defence in front of them, can it be coincidence that Seaman, one of t he greats, also had the best ever defence in front of him, and that best defence has Seaman behind them… Seems that the defence has improved, so had Jens… All in all, Wenger knows his job, the team has finally in the last 5 weeks clicked back into gear, if only the injuries had not come… Still we may not have won back to back titles, but come on, let’s look at the evidence, this could be the eight year running we have been in the top two, hardly shows a club that cannot cope…

Daz
April 21, 2005

Just out of curiosity, Kiwi, and given that the pleasure of a partner will be as important as your own to a new man like yourself, how does the sheep let you know that it's reached THAT point?

kiwipete
April 21, 2005

Quite right Bernard stand your ground dont be brow beaten by that psuedo Chilean from Burnley and the Rock Spider.

Daz
April 21, 2005

Ratzinger is not a good man at all but a reactionary bigot, an enemy of progressive and rational thought and his becoming Pope is a huge setback for humanity. His reactionary views on homosexuality, birth control and the ordination of women are well known but since Medellin in the sixties, he has also attacked with huge vigour progressive Catholicism paying particular attention to liberation theology in Latin America and attempting to stifleand censor its exponents.

Steve Martin
April 21, 2005

Well, I had a dream, I really thought if we had beaten Chelsea last night, we would have won the league, well this year it's not be be... I have to say I'm not disheartened, I though at times our football was superb, some of the passage of play, passing was top draw, Chelsea cannot match that... The Defence is now showing it can defend, sahme it took it so long... Shows how the injuries have affected us and you can only have so many players on the books... Cannot see how Man Utd can hope to beat us in the final, we are reaching the top level again... Well, I'm off to Clacton for a few days, returning Monday in time for the Spurs game... Think Chelsea many have to wait a little longer for their title as Fulham will win at the bridge...

Arsene Wenger
April 21, 2005

Chelsea are worthy champions because they have been remarkably consistent which is most difficult in top sport. You have to respect that and congratulate them. They have had an exceptional year.

Jimmy
April 21, 2005

I really enjoyed the game. Both teams defended very well. Senderos stood out for us and Carvalho for Chelski. Lauren put Duff in his back pocket for most of the game. Terry's reference to 'keeping a clean sheet' means Chelski have now equaled our clean sheet record. Glad to see Manure bite the dust!

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

Anyone licking their lips about a possible Campbell/Senderos pairing? The only drawback is that Toure` does possess more pace than either but I think both of them are positionally better than Kolo and would sniff out problems earlier than Kolo. **** Lauren has been playing better, but I still would like to see what Eboue can do with a run of games. **** I hope no neutral or rival doubts Fabregas' bottle. He seemed to relish the atmosphere and the game and plays with a maturity way above his years. He's not afraid of the big stage at all. **** Lampard may be having the best season overall for all center mids but he was at best the 2nd best midfielder in London on this night.

AmericanGooner
Chelsea'sVersion@MatchReport
April 21, 2005

http://www.chelseafc.com/article.asp?hlid=271280&m=4&y=2005&nav=news&sub=latest+news **** No mention of Pires hitting the cross bar and the 2nd shot he dragged wide but as fair as one can expect from the blues I guess.

Mee
April 21, 2005

Chelsea may have the title, but their players will know that our football in the first twenty minutes was of a quality which they cannot match. Had RP superbly struck volley got its just reward the match would have been entirely different,. I thought Senderos handled Drogba extremely well, although Drogba doesn’t have much skill, his lanky, muscular, and aggresive presence will provide a test for even the most capable of defenders. Jens also made an important blocking save and looks much more competent with a more reliable defence in front of him. I think tonight was a huge moral victory for us.

kevyg6
April 21, 2005

Cannon Balls, i think Scholes was sent off for 2 yellows.

GunGun
April 21, 2005

It made a pleasant change to be playing against a team of footballers and not butchers from Blackburn. A German Pope is ok...he looks a good man. But it should stop at that. No German as UEFA head please.

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

We've lacked key personell twice against them (Vieira and Silva the first game, Henry the 2nd), only Robben is who they missed. At full strength we're better. I know we are. At times in the first 10 to 15 minutes they were carved open a few times. I may take a peek at some Chelsea forums and see if they are at least somewhat objective...although I wouldn't expect them to be.

Danny
April 21, 2005

I was surprised that Chelsea didn't create more of a threat, although Jose has seemed to install within them that we are no longer worth worrying about. He seemed not to care and had his mind on ther games. There is a part of me that wants to see Chelsea get beat in the CL final rather than semis, somehow that would be more satisfying. I have a feeling that Wenger will turn out to be the one manager that Jose struggles to get the better of. We played some neat football in the first half with no outlet for a goal, the second i thought chelsea equalled us with their commitment.Senderos is going to be in a different league to Terry and Vieira made Lampard invisible for most of the match. I don't think Aliadiere will make it in the EPL too lightweight and Reyes might just surprise us all next season and show he's adjusted. All in all a good reminder of who plays the better football although i'm sure the press will be creaming themselves over the summer about chelsea. How anyone as Alan Greeen has, can disregard the chavs spending nearly Ł250.000.000 in just over 2 years and not expect them to win the title is beyond me. But i am now convinced they will be spending another Ł25mill on Ashley Cole in the summer. on that note is there a more creepy, obnoxious arse licker than Peter Kenyon in football today. Lets raise em for Arsenal, the last truly great English football team before money turned the game ugly.

Chippys Chisler
April 21, 2005

The Drunken Jock was on Sky complaining about the "weak referee", he should know hes seen enough of them give his team the decisions over the years. Ronaldo dives for a yellow card and kicks Hibbett, wonder if the FA will pick up on that. If Kolo can get 3 matches for what he did to Shearer, Ronaldo should get the same. Dont you just love it when United loose the support of the Referees and media. Neville in big trouble hopefully, couldn't happen to a nicer asshole.

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

I thought RvP should have come on earlier (about an hour into the game) and I would have brought off Reyes. That said, and while I can't begrudge some people for wanting JAR to leave based on his form for the last several months, I would beg some to have a wee bit more patience. Maybe I'm an eternal optimist but I think he's one good game away from getting near the old Reyes. **** Chippy's, that's why I want Yakubu. I'm not saying he should start but in games like this, we could have used him off the bench. He can play our style of football and add the power, heading and size we currently lack. **** We should be at full strength for the final. AW should make sure Henry is fully rested, we are firmly in command of runner up now and lets not rush him back and have his injury flare up and miss the final. **** On a bad note, does Vieira's booking means he misses the derby with the scum? So we could be without Vieira, Freddie and Henry for the derby then?

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

We missed Henry as a finisher tonight. We had a lot of playmakers and no finishers. Reyes is technically one but in his current form you really couldn't call him one. I was proud of our boys, very proud. I think we showed the footballing world a lot of things. Chelsea, for all their money and form this season still have a little ways to go and although they are the most consistent club in the land, we are the best in a one off, I feel completely justified in saying that. I will say this, Chelsea had their chances but I'd have to give us the better game. The difference between the two clubs are reduced greatly but we're still ahead. I do wish to say though that I at least appreciate that Chelsea came to play football. I get a lot of teasing here by some of my compatriots for the lack of scoring in football compared to sports here and I would show them this tape that you can have an exciting game without scoring. We were tired as hell in the 2nd half. Both clubs were. With the pace of the game, and this late in the season, no way both clubs could run for 90 minutes. **** Parry and Townsend commentated our game. I don't know which is which (we can't see them, just hear them) but I've heard this pairing before and the one with the most pronounced non London accent likes to take shots at Arsenal once in a while, the other who does the play by play fancies us I think, but he does try to be fair.He seems to love good football. I am assuming they are well known to you guys?

Richie
April 21, 2005

For a team 11 points clear before the game, I thought on reflection that Chelsea were very negative, especially in the 2nd half. Terry said that a clean sheet was what they wanted. Fair enough, they have been solid at the back all season but with the title almost theirs then I would have thought they would have liked to win it in some style. I know if the tables were turned and we were at home with 11 points clear we would have gone for the jugular. After all they had a good rest and we were coming into this game on the back of a very physical match at the weekend. I really don't know if DB10 will be offered another season. The heart says yes but the head no. He was on fire at the beginning of the season but does it warrant another contract? I don't think it should be a foregone conclusion that Campbell will get back into the side. Would be very harsh on Senderos I feel. I am assuming Senderos will make way.

Dormouse
April 21, 2005

As I posted before the game, it was never going to be easy to score without a striker. RP, JAR, DB & Cesc are all essentially MF or hole players & we would have needed a striker to give more options in front of goal. I would have preferred not to have started with RvP or JA, but would equally have wanted a striker on from the beginning. At the very least I'd have wanted one coming on at half time. I'd either have gone for DB & JA together (dropping JAR) or JAR & RvP (dropping DB). I think JAR played most out of position tonight (as FL did at BBurn in the league) & it's always hard for a player out of position.

young man of hoy
April 21, 2005

heres one to make your eyes water....just watching MOTD and its the united everton match, scholes has just pushed arteta over and accidentally then trod on his 'special place' as he fell spread eagled in front of him. and i thought bob hitting the bar was painful!! a good game tonight, a good footballing match instead of the thuggery i saw at cardiff, well done the lads now lets spank the spurs!!

Cannon Balls
April 21, 2005

The Chavs were a disgrace football wise they played their usul boring long-ball game and the only decent football played was by us in the first half. Bob was very unfortunate not to score early doors which i reckon would have won us the game against the workman like Mourinho draw bores. Chelsea looked and played like the away side,but then they always do,nothing special about them at all that i can see,but everyone to their own.I can see Liverpool winning the CL tie over the two legs and AC Milan won tonight in Seria A and willl be there waiting in the CL final anyway and they look a tough call to overcome. So in reality it's looking like just a 'Mickey Mouse Double' for Mourinho in his first season,and not the real double that AW did in his one.We will win back the title next season and tonight was not all bad news with Manure losing,and us now 4 points clear of them with only 4 to play, we can drop 4 points and still beat them for second spot on GD. Reyes was appalling and had Henry have played we would have won tonight.At least the Chavs did not try kicking us off the park to their credit,though in the case of Reyes an hefty one up the arse would not have gone amiss!.I dont know what the situation is with Scholes for the Cup Final he got a red-card for violent play which carries a 3 match ban.Ferguson will probably find someway of overcoming it though.

Sir Basil
April 21, 2005

For 78 minutes I thought the 9 men of Arsenal were excellent tonight. Had we played a couple of strikers who knows how it might have ended up. I had the pleasure of watching tonight's game on the box , I had all sorts of distractions along the way,( I was cooking Ribs which do require turning and basting fairly regulary), I did have the wireless headphones on though and dont think I missed anything of note. It was good to hear that the 9 men of Man Ure were not quite in Arsenal's class. I've never had the pleasure of watching a game live at Stamford Bridge but can only assume that there must be one hell of a slope from right to left and Arsene's game plan of playing two left wingers, and a central midfielder on the right was tactical . It's quite ironic that Wenger who tends to be tactically conservative would keep faith with Sendoros when Sol was available ( I can live with that) , yet was'nt prepared to play the only striker that we had available who (fat lip aside) has a recent memory of the ball hitting the back of the net. Second place in the Premiership is important but not nearly as important as knowing how to take the team forward into 2005-06. Arsene has put the ball firmly in Aliadiere court telling him he has the rest of the season to prove that he can string a couple of game's together without breaking down, to me he would have been the perfect foil to Van Persie both young both hungry and more importantly compatable ( Dave M keep the faith).I dont post very often but Clock End Clive if you are around Thank You for your kind words. I have indeed found another Job that I actually look forward to getting up in the morning for.

Chippys Chisler
April 21, 2005

In the post match interview, Arsene said we do not have the physical dimension up front at the moment. Maybe he will look to add that over the summer. How many times tonight did we get wide but no one to cross to. There is surely some big physical striker out there with all Wengers must haves -pace, power and touch. We need another option and maybe Wenger will finally give in. And another thing every goal kick went high down the centre, meat and drink to Terry against Reyes and DB10.

Chippys Chislers
April 21, 2005

Superb defensive display by the back 5, I thought Senderos and Lauren were top class. Too light upfront -DB10 seems to be finished and Reyes never looked the part. All Chelseas chances came from us not holding up the ball at centre forward or misplaced passes frfom midfield. Chelsea played like they were happy for a draw but would take a win if the chance came without committing much forward. Why were the subs not on earlier? The game was crying out for RVP from half time. We tired badly as well. With Gilberto back, Vieira is playing like we expect him to. Tough look on Manure -thugs. It looks like they are not loved by refs or the media anymore!

kevyg6
April 21, 2005

Can't really complain about the result, they never really looked like scoring and neither did we after the first 15. Pleased they still haven't beaten us in the league, even after spending 200 million. Frustrated with Arsene. Really should have changed things up front a lot sooner and unfortunately the sooner Reyes leaves the better. Like a lot of posters, i think he'll be a monster but not with us. Have to concede the title may be beyond us but don't feel as gutted as i thought i might. GUess i've got used to the idea. Although who knows, if they lose on Saturday we could get to that 8 point gap. That takes our league title to their final 3 matches and the legendary squeaky bum time. And E*ging typical, Jose gets booked for diving when his heel's clipped. Same old Arsenal, always cheating. Yeah, whatever. Think its about time we claimed that chant for our own every time some ***t of a ref E*gs us over, the way we did with Boring, boring Arsenal. Have to say though, when i switched to SkySports 2, saw the score and then that ginger t**t get sent off, then heard Gary Spudhead had already been sent off! Brilliant. Bring on Cardiff. Lets ****ing annhialate them. We owe those ******ds big time, especially this season.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 21, 2005

Oh how we missed TH14, with him leading the line we probably would have won by 3 or 4. AC3 as motm was a cheap shot to get him on camera and try and embarass him. What became even clearer for me tonight was that Cesc should become the No.10 asap. Combine that with more of a threat down the right flank and we're almost there.

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

DHD, what game were you watching? Where were those "good touches" by JAR? You must be on some hallucinogenic drug pal.

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

US, why not let Aliadiare have a go up front? He has pace and I believe he would get goals. Reyes was extremely poor, again. He gave the ball away constantly, created nothing and was always the weak link in any moves. I don't often slag off our players (cygan excepted!) but it will be better for all concerned if he goes. At least we didn't lose and makes it a bit longer for the Chelc Chavs to sweat. Good form for us to be going into the spuds game with but can't help thinking we missed a good chance to win tonight.PTBAG

DHD
April 21, 2005

Good game of football. Nice to see a team that doesn't feel the need to kick us off the pitch - respect to Chelsea (for that is there correct name) for that. We could/should have won that though. Dennis played OK with some good touches but all in all looked like an old man. JAR played OK with some good touches but all in all looked like a boy. I can't see either with us next season. Second half, we really never looked like scoring - no real threat whatsoever. Can't see how AC3 was MotM - RP7 surely, closely followed by Senderos or PV4. All in all, honour was served.

Gotham City Gooner
April 21, 2005

Even though the result shows we are 'even' with Chelski, the real winner is that that w**ker 'Referee' Mike Riley as if he'd been a half decent at Old Trafford we'd never have lost that game or as our players are so committed, been 'affected' by it letting Chelski bore their way to the top. Cardiff is gonna be interesting... come on you gunners!!!

maomao
April 21, 2005

That's it, Reyes. You gotta go!

US Martin
April 21, 2005

Great first half to witness, poor second. Reyes can go to Madrid tonight as far as I am concerned. I have always liked him and backed him, even to now, but his play in Henry's place tonight was woeful all ends up, where Pires was brilliant, Cesc worked hard out of position, Vieira was wonderful again, andd the back four was solid save for a couple of counters-they hardly troubled us in attacking play. Special mention to Senderos. He IS for real. Young yet and will have the bad days too, but he is a great one and showed it tonight. Maybe Campbell is the right back-up for him, and we don't need that back-up for Sol. We still need a striker who will play inside the box and get on the end of a couple of those crosses - how about Trezeguet still? As for Denis, great player wonderful servant, and still skilled, but the the game is passing him by. He just has NO pace left and it showed painfully when classic chances to catch Chelsea on the counter went begging early as he just couldn't get onto the ball. Move VanPersie ahead and let him come on to unlock defences with the brilliant passes his last year. The only complaint on our tactics was why wait to 80 minutes to change it up? It didn't matter if we lost. Not winning was just as damaging. We should have gone for it on the hour if not sooner. And for all of Denis' lacking pace I'd have kept him on ahead of Reyes. Ashley Cole at least played like he cared what happened, even if he heads to the roman pimps next summer. Reyes has packed it in it looks like. He can't blame Henry tonight, either. He was just lousy and disinterested and half-hearted and the rest of the team deserved better from him, as did a a manager who stayed faithful to him. He is certainly a talent and I still wish we'd see it here the next few years for Arsenal, but his heart just isn't in it here, so best of luck Jose, you are a gifted lad, and thanks for very little tonight...

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

Agree Dublin, subs far too late to make a difference, AW got it very wrong. RVP and Aliadiare would have caused problems, no-one else did bar RP early chances. Senderos superb again as was RP. Manure lost though and 2 sent off!!

goonerguru
April 21, 2005

the really good news is MU lost 1-0

Richie
April 21, 2005

0-0 final score. That's finally put paid to any lingering hopes we had of retaining the title. Had the majority of the first half. 2nd half was even steven I think. Didn't really create any clear cut chances in the 2nd half. Would have liked to seen RVP on a lot earlier. DB10 was having little impact as the game went on. Overall it was a sound performance and as MU have lost 1-0 tonight, it has turned out quite well. Two MU players sent off also which is a bonus. Reyes booked for diving. Why wasn't Joe Cole when he took a dive.

dublin gooner
April 21, 2005

what a waste! that game just deteriorated. anyone else getting very infuriated with wengers excessively late substitutions, you could count on one hand the combined touches of the ball of van persie and aliadiere, so ****ing irritating!!!

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

Great start and early chances fo RP. Chelski coming back into it but overall good perfomance. Hard to see where a goal will come from though. Sorry but Reyes is just not up to the job. Like Saturday he is easily knocked off the ball and his distribution is appalling. Gray is spouting his usual faeces. 61% 39% possesion in our favour after 16 mins but didn't mean anything according to gay, oh dear, did I misspell it......

MEA
April 21, 2005

Following the match on the internet, it seems like a fairly even game so far. Looks like we are putting in some good tackles as well. Any comments from anybody watching the game?

Decaf
April 21, 2005

Dormouse, I hope the theory about Reyes playing better without Henry, and your idea that Senderos is one of those players who "adds" something. A great test for him tonight. Choco, you should know that if you disagree with Bernard, you are wrong. Bernard is not into all that wishy-washy post-Kantian stuff. He calls a spade a space and a hospital trolley a hospital trolley. Speaking of which: Bernard, I agree with you (as I must). I don't know why I bother with contradicting Choco, as he does such a fine job of contradicting himself. Daz, very graphic. However the prize for cheek goes to East End Gooner: you are a naughty E*G. Making a posting out ****olics and *azis, and then saying "forget I wrote that" in the same post. Couldn't have deleted it, could you?

Dormouse
April 21, 2005

Well, it seems that we are putting out a team that is suited to a 4-5-1-0 formation. I wouldn't have wanted RvP or Aliadiere to have started tonight (one not been doing so well as a starter against tight defences, the other not had many first team minutes for a very long time), but I would have liked to have seen one striker out there. That said, maybe we'll keep a lot of the game up the pitch, have a lot of dangerous options for Chelski to cover & RvP & Aliadiere can come on at a time when they will be most dangerous. Chelski certainly putting their strongest side out. Come on you Gooners.

Bernard
April 21, 2005

Daz, so if I'm pointing out the E*Ging obvious, I take it you consciously meant to increase Chocolate's status on the forum then, albeit Decaf felt he had to join in and help. Oh well, fair enough. American, look please stop wittering on about Taylor. One good game at Maine Road does not equate to being a top keeper. It's not a decline through seeing the writing on the wall. He's not a very good goalkeeper, never has been and I'd bet he never will be. That's all there is to his position (behind Almunia).

dublin gooner
April 21, 2005

well it looks like DB10 and Reyes upfront, both somewhat out of form. pity wenger wouldnt go with van persie and aliadiere. i thought van persie would be a definite starter due to his two classic goals, oh well.

Matthew Wade
April 21, 2005

Have to add my two pennies worth in the Man U / Arse debate............the question of whether players should be measured at their peak or with respect to longevity is a difficult one, and I suspect each of us views the balance differently. I think the time scale should be Wneger onwards... For my 11 ( + subs).....I think the consensus goes with Schmeichel, not jsut for his overall brilliance, but his realisation of his inability to cut it at the top level in time, so avoiding 'spunky's' rather sad end. Right Back....probably Gary Neville for his surrogate captaincy, international impact and improved crossing ability. Also tidy in the air for a full back. Not as dynamic as the arsenal options but solid and pretty consistant. Left back...Ashley cole....no real contest in this one, as it has seldom been teh strongest postion for either team in the last 10 years, despite nige and irwin. Sadly Hienze is probably second best in this position, the dirty argie so and so. Centre half....Adams (natch) & Stam (just edges sol due to the fact he had such an impact and all our strikers struggled against him). ------------------In midfield, this has been a major strength for both teams so is hard to pick. -- Right Midfield...I think beckham edges this, as I think even we would score from crosses with hsi ability...on the downturn now, but fantasic set-pieces and long range shooting and passing at his best. Worked for the team and would link up well with his best mate Gary. Outs Ljungberg, who when not scoring doesn't create nearly as much, and both overmars and pires were primarily left sided. Centre Midfield...Keane & Vieira...any arguments? no.? good, we'll move on. Left wing...Pires - no doubt - for any midfileder to get 15 goals & assists a year consitantly is amaxing. would also make up for lack of playmaking of vieira / keane. also would link up with Ash and the obvious choices for up front........El Tel....no plausible argument against this.....and Dennis......his goals may have dropped off, but in the 97/98 season he was the best I've ever seen in terms of a second striker by a mile, also changed his game to justify his space in the team when required. Rooney has only just appeared on the scene, and United's strength under ferguson was seldom the men up top. A 7 man bench would be, Seaman, Sol, Rio (flexible?), Shcholes, Petit, Overmars, Wright. some contreversioal omissions...but Cantona's impact was less to do with on pitch achievement but more the whole package......history has been kind to him.....andy cole scored lots but missed more......giggs has alternated between brilliant and average, and isn't as flexible as overmars (who although less talented always had a chilling efficiency.....just got the ball and ran straight at the opposition goal, very very quickly), Keown & Pallister were great, but not world class and Van Nistelrooy is great at what he does but needs bloody good service. The main thing is that the two teams have been so close over the wenger period, that this team would beat any other pretty much ever assembled and if wenger had enjoyed as much continuity and cash as Fergie, United wouln't have had it as easy in 2000 and 2001. The key thing is, although we hate each otehr, we can concentrate on hating chelsea more who wouldn't have a plear within spitting distance of the joint arsenal man u team....

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

Thanks again Xav T, you know I would have been there if I could have. I enjoyed the close atmosphere at Barnet when I was there (I'm glad they're doing well also). The game was closer to you and reminded me of going to watch small gridiron schools here where you could mix easily with the players. A few questions. Was the singing, impromptu songs or established songs? Do you recall a line or two by chance? I'm not sure if you're a fan of Taylor or not, but could his indifference be that he's seen the writing on the wall and couldn't be bothered? You've seen far more reserves games than the one I saw last year on my visit. Was his performance..or lack of one, consistent with the past or is this something new? Also, I keep hearing about Lupoli's second, give us (or me) a little more detail into it if you could?

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

This may sound like I'm a conspiracy theory nut, but I think Chelsea going after SWP is to weaken us. Kenyon is behind it I think. He has made bids on players his rivals have gone after before. Players he didn't need at Chelsea but only to make the transfer more expensive or tie up a key player from his rivals getting him. Its long been rumored we've been keeping tabs on Wright Phillips and that he's a gooner. They had Duff but went after Robben and he was all but signed for Man Yoo, before Chelsea in the form of Kenyon made a bid. Why they needed a second left footed midfielder is anyone's guess. Then they made a late, last minute bid for Reyes. It was actually more money from what I understand but Sevilla wasn't sure if they were serious and we were after him for a while so they went with sure money. They had Duff, were bidding on Robben, so why did Kenyon think they needed a 3rd left footed midfielder? Its bad enough they have more money than King Croesus, okay, they have an oligarch sugar daddy but the evil part is using their money to weaken their rivals instead of just buying players and winning on the pitch. Not to mention the feeder clubs scheme to lock in the world's best emerging talent. **** Its becoming increasing evident that if you take Chelsea's rubles you'll immediately be labeled a mercenary. Some players may not care but it will hurt their reputation.

AmericanGooner
April 21, 2005

I can only assume Cantona was chosen not for footballing skill but because he ushered in the Man Yoo era of domestic dominance and the majority of their support came on during the 'glory' years. **** Wasn't the Campbell the only English player to make the all World Cup XI in ''02? **** grunny, please stay on the forum. Football is a passionate sport and you may get a fair amount of abuse as any of us would on a Man Yoo site, it comes with the territory. But I think you'll find very knowledgeable supuporters on here who can talk footie. If you've read this forum you'll know that I have a deep, visceral hatred for your club but I do try to be fair. We may also need your opinion on a few things. For me, that question or opinion I'm soliciting is do you think you'll sign Rio and if the fans think he's been disloyal over the support he received during his ban? Will he leave for greener pastures? Also, other than a keeper its obvious you need a long term replacement for Keane and Giggs, who are the leading candidates and who do you want?

3GS
April 21, 2005

I just hope the REAL Arsenal turn up for the match tonight.Somehow I strongly doubt it though.

Truegooner
April 21, 2005

Give 'em hell EEG,burn those suckas down!

Truegooner
April 21, 2005

I want a quality fighting performance for tonight,three points will do nicely.If this does not happen,the banter I,as we will all have to endure, will be unbearable.COME ON YOU REDS!!!!!

DHD
April 21, 2005

Habeamus Vieiram, Pires, Reyes et multus Fabregas. In Concordia Crescit. Sursum Anum!

chocolate gooner
April 21, 2005

Bernard… I wish I could do something to make certain members of this forum feel a tad less inferior but alas I’m not a shrink. Any way it’s heartening to know that some things never change… Decaf still can’t read, can’t write and has no opinions worth a lick of spit. Consistency is a wonderful quality even when someone is being consistently idiotic. Having said all that I feel that you’re being slightly mischievous in trying to suggest that I was WRONG about good old Frank and his twelve or was it seven whatsits. I had one opinion on the guy’s faux pas and you had another… Wrong or right doesn’t come into it - I’m afraid… IF, on the other hand, I’d said that the great man was trying to wheedle his way into the Zeitgeist… that would be a different matter altogether. Cheers Bernard. …. … … … … … … Parkerknoll. So a German kid whose father was a staunchly Anti Nazi Catholic and who joined the Hitler youth, as all German kids had to do, unwillingly, according to most reports, was a Nazi? Amazing. But I suppose being German he has to be a Nazi doesn’t he Parkerknoll, ol’ buddy? Hey! I’ve always wanted to ask you what you’ve made of Michael Howard’s campaign so far? Good? Bad? What about Immigration? What about Gypsies? What say you? … … … … … … Good luck to lads tonight. A win and… who knows what might happen. Cheers all.

East End Gooner
April 21, 2005

Sing up all ye Gooners going tonight. I will. For those of you watching on TV I will be the man being dragged out of the executive area by 16 large Russians.

East End Gooner
April 21, 2005

Sing up all ye Gooners going tonight. I will. For those of you watching on TV I will be the man being dragged out of the executive area by 16 large Russians.

DHD
April 21, 2005

Habeamus a photo opportunity.

DHD
April 21, 2005

If old Ratzo von Ritzo wanted to make some real dosh for the Catholic Church, why didn't he choose a name with potential. Pope Rothmans I?

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

Insidious of course, early Alzheimer's I think. Membership of the Hitler youth was compulsory, let's be honest you would put yourself in a difficult position by refusing. What an awful choice to make. We are very fortunate. Now back to football eh?

East End Gooner
April 21, 2005

I think as a technical matter he is right Niall. The whys and whereabouts may give a fuller picture but the basic facts are true. Anyway, whats the big issue? Is there really such a difference? Actually, scrap that and forget I even mentioned it.

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

Parker Knoll, I appreciate the humour even though others take you a little too seriously. Besides, only a blind man cannot see what an insidiuos, sinister bunch the Catholic clergy are. Oh and before the deluge, I was unfortunately christened one.

How much!
April 21, 2005

FA Cup tickets now on sale at the following prices Ł90.00 Ł65.00 Ł50.00 — Limited Availability Ł25.00 — Limited Availability

Afc4life
Afc4ever@mymail.Ro
April 21, 2005

Would like to know from fellow goons just what players you want to see at arsenal me for one would like to see benny mcarthey of porto as one signing

Niall
April 21, 2005

Parkerknoll - Bless you my son, you are so wrong it isn't worth comment.

Daz
April 21, 2005

Got to get up preeetttty early in the morning to keep up with you eh, Bernard. Sometimes you are a little like the Mr Logic character from Viz in pointing out the bleeding obvious. I've never quite understood though why you find it so necessary to keep drawing attention to chocolate's tactical genius over Jeffers. Big deal, every muppet has its moment, I was quite happy to acknowledge that he was right in his argument with US Martian. But - as decaf has quite correctly pointed out - he is still a sinister little freak. A luta continua, indeed. Coraje, companero!

bubblechris
April 21, 2005

Steve you're a star, cheers mate

Mee
April 21, 2005

Parkerknoll: I had no idea that joining the Hitler Youth movement as an innocent 16 year old was the same as becoming a Nazi. Also the Catholic church responsible for electing Kurt Von Benedict as their leader, although a fabulously wealthy institution, is not, as yet, likely to outbid Abromavich for the signature of Steven Gerrard or Ashley Cole.

Bernard
April 21, 2005

Parkerknoll, was membership of the Nazi Youth compulsory or voluntary? Because if it was compulsory, I don't think that membership necessarily means he was a Nazi.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 21, 2005

So Mee, a week ago if I had said there's as much chance of us winning the league as there is a former Nazi being voted head of the Catholic Church, would you have agreed? In the immortal words of Lenny K, it ain't over 'til it's over!

Mee
April 21, 2005

I wonder what the Chelsea supporters response to Ashley Cole will be this evening, given his new-found alligience to the cannon?

steve martin
April 21, 2005

During the game against Boro, the commentator made a point that PV4 had got thought the game without a booking, therefore would play against Blackburn and Chelsea... There are cut off points in the season for reaching 5 and 10 bookings... PV4 has missed the ten bookings cut off, and therefore will only now be suspended should he get a red card, hence he will get that one against Everton, the game that can make sure he misses the final against United

North Bank Mural
April 21, 2005

Let's stop the niceties with Manure fans now, we have a big game tonight! As an aside, DB10 v Cantona, what about the longevity issue? DB still performing at the highest level, Cantona a boring, overweight, plastic philosopher. (Wonder if he knows about the Sophists!!!). Dearly want a win tonight but can't see beyond a draw. Is Sol match fit for a game of this magnitude? Senderos and Toure have earned the right to start IMO. Please come on you Gooners!!!

East End Gooner
April 21, 2005

Amsterdam - I spent two spells in different parts but cant for the life of me remember the order or why I changed. One was in the middle a few yards to the left of the fence that went downt the middle and the other was right at the top a few yards to the right of it. Remember that the surges were sometimes a pain at the top and the boring b*****d moaner was a pain in the middle. I moved to the other because of one of them but cant remember which.

bubblechris
April 21, 2005

Picture this - Steven Gerard comes clean and confirms he has been tapped up by Chelsea, in particular Kenyon! What do the authorities do? Well, i can dream cant i - it would level the playing field at least and i ont give a damn how we win it long aswe win it back to back. Come on Stevie come clean, pretty pretty please :D

Bernard
April 21, 2005

I thought there was a point after which you had to get quite a few further bookings to get a ban, though you would still get a ban for being sent off. I'm not sure whether we've reached that point - if I'm right, which I'm not totally certain of.

East End Gooner
April 21, 2005

Decaf - The big difference in competition is that in Bergkamp's biggest season we at least had them as competition. During Cantona's success their competition was very weak. Their overlap was very short-lived so it is not a problem to suggest that the vast majority of Cantona's success occured in a much weaker league. As I said, Bergkamp was brilliant in 2002 when the league had moved on...er...a whole league.

bubblechris
April 21, 2005

Rob K - I think PV4 is one boking away from a suspension. Can anyone confirm?

Bernard
April 21, 2005

See that Daz and Decaf are still determined to raise the status of Chocolate on the forum by singling out practically all his posts out for strenuous attention, examination, and comment. I'm sure it's not their objective in doing what they do, but I'd say it has made Chocolate by far the most important poster on the forum. Like pretty well everybody, he gets some things wrong (e.g. McLintock), some things right (e.g. Jeffers), and some things where it's difficult for some of us to say whether he's right or wrong (Sophism and Philosophy). But due to Daz and Decaf seemingly being unable to resist pounding away at their keyboards as soon as a post appears from him or her appears, in my view they are personally responsible (to a significant extent) for making Chocolate totally central to maintaining interest in and the health of the forum.

colorado_gooner
April 21, 2005

All I keep reading is that Chelscum need to win 2 more games to clinch the title, well according to my calculator that's a load of bollox - IF we win tonight, then that puts us 8 pts behind with 5 games to play; presuming that they beat Charlton & Fulham then they will be 8 pts ahead with 3 to play (if we keep winning) they have to play Bolton, Newcastle & Manure all away, all loseable. So if they did lose all 3 and we won all 3 then we take the title by 1 point even though the Chavs will have won 2 games. Now this scenario might be unlikely (though not impossible!)and all rest on us turning them over tonight without Titi, but it could happen. So would the media mind awfully removing their collective tongues out of Mourinho and Chelscums buttholes for 2 seconds and provide us with an objective viewpoint for a change - tw**ts

Daz
April 21, 2005

Thanks for the tip, decaf. The perfect recipe for a chocolate gooner cake is a kind of holy grail among those - like me - who enjoy baking. Critical to the success of this tricky culinary challenge is remembering to fold in the sugar and butter with one hand while keeping the other on the keyboard always ready to cut-and--paste a large slab of plagiarised philosophy into the mixture to stiffen it up.

Hedges
April 21, 2005

Just to add some more light to the situation.. Yes grunny did send me the giggs goal of 1999 to which i told my cousin steve and he told me to delete it (burn it were his exact words) and never think of it again. As revenge i sent grunny an mp3 sighting "Beckham: 10 reason i love utd) and what did he hear: an ian wright recording detailing arsenals greatest avhievements and why he quote "loved playing for arsenal". I still have this recording which Steve gave to me if anyone wants it!

Arsenal Amsterdam
April 21, 2005

For those who can remember that far back (and you too Do, I know how your memory is these days!), where did you stand when Highbury still had terraces? North Bank or Clock End? If you were in the North Bank, were you topside or middle? I was a fully paid up member of the middle crew back in the early nineties!

Decaf
April 21, 2005

Good thing too that McCan-tona was Scots (a little known fact), so that he who was not "culturally sophisticated enough to deal with foreigners" could handle him. Flop!

Decaf
April 21, 2005

Bored: http://www.cacaoweb.net/flourlesschocolatecake.html. Daz, if you are trying to make Flourless Chocolate Gooner Cake don't neglect the sugar and eegs, and make sure you don't neglect instruction 3. "Break the chocolate into small pieces and melt ..." I think whoever made our one didn't follow the recipe properly. Please also don't open the oven door at the wrong time. In fact, make sure the E*Ging thing is burn to a crisp.

Decaf
April 21, 2005

Daz
April 21, 2005

"Finally the reason Fergie has so many English players is because he is simply not culturally sophisticated enough to deal with foreign players." OK, I know I shouldn't I know I shouldn't but...really? That would be the same level of cultural sophistication that understands the socio-economics of Brazilian favelas? Or the that the only decent Americans live in the leafy suburbs of New England right? What's your favourite cake, chocolate?

Decaf
April 21, 2005

EEG, Cantona retired at the end of 1996-1997. To say that Cantona was great "because the league was poor" is surely to undermine Bergy's "greatest" season, unless one claims that the prem increased so dramatically in quality in one season. That would, I believe, be sophistry. Also, using Leeds' win as an argument that the league was so weak at the time is not a very good argument. My memory may be faulty, but I though it was Cantona's presence there that did the trick. Hardly a point against him. Finally, I'm not sure about the fitness issue: remember also that Cantona was into his thirties in his last couple of seasons for Man U; does the the over-30 Bergy compare with the Bergy who was top scorer three times in a row in Holland or the Bergy of 1997? For my money Bergy is obviously great technically, and still has great spells (like in the 02 run in and the beginning of this season), but his lack of consistency and refusal to fly have on other occasions been a big problem.

East End Gooner
April 21, 2005

And for Grunny to describe him as "awesome" I am surprised. I saw Cantona in the flesh on a number of occasions and though he did often influence a game (like when Adams got him sent off!) I would never describe him as "awesome" as he flitted in and out too much for me. When I think of the very best players I have seen (whether on TV or in the flesh) whether defenders, midfielders or forwards, they all had a level of grace. Cantona just didn't have any really, though he could caress a shot, if not a pass. To me when you talk about the best players in the World game, a category in which Henry and Bergkamp both fit comfortably, Cantona is definitely second tier at best. And if that sounds derogatory I suppose it is if you consider yourself top tier.

Cannon Balls
April 20, 2005

Decaf,Bergkamp around the time that your refering too in comparison with Mad-Eric was voted 2nd best player in the world by Fifa, Cantona to my knowledge was never in that categoryor considered for world-class honors by indepedent bodies. And personally having seen both play over a period of time i can't see Cantona even being close to Bergkamp at his best.Bergkamp at all levels scored some of the greatest goals ever seen and his passing was also out of the top draw. Cantona struggled with his weight and fitness and if he came now into the EPL would not make the impact that he then did. His appearance at OT coincided with the emergence of young players and he was helped by that and no doubt helped to influence them, but they would in that poor league have made it without him anyway. They achieved their greatest susscess in '99 and he had bid them 'au-revoir mon amis' by then to go and take up a role acting in the theatre in Paris playing a mad-man who thought he was a genius, a part that suited him, and required actually little acting talent on his part to portray!.

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

Decaf - After taking a year or so to find his feet, Bergkamp was the best player around in 98, that was Cantona's final year wasn't it? And also the first time since Blackburn (who however much they spent were still a poor side as demonstrated by their dismal European attempt) that United had any real competition since 92. Cantona's best work was done when the rest of the top flight were rubbish. I think Dennis was as good, albeit with a different role in 2002 when his passes to Ljungberg saw us to the title. There is no question in my mind that the competition during Bergkamp's time at Arsenal (including United themselves) was a whole league higher than Cantona faced with United. Look, I liked the bloke too. Partly because anyone who could play at the top level with his approach to fitness is alright with me. But he played at the right time. I am certain he would struggle to have anything like the same impact now.

Decaf
April 20, 2005

Mee, I think Grunny has a point. Cantona was the kind of player who only a few managers could have handled, and whatever you think of Ferguson, you have to give him credit for that.

Decaf
April 20, 2005

Didn't Bergkamp play in the premiership at much the same time as Cantona, Choc? In fact, Bergy's best spell (1995-9), when he used to score over 10 a season, overlaps with Cantona, who's last season for manure was 1996/7. If you say "Cantona looked good becuase he was playing in a poor league", how can you avoid making the same argment about Bergy? Or is this too subtle for you? Or perhaps you are talking about his international career? How does 20 goals in 43 appearances sound? Not that bad. Why only 43 games? Surely not because of his ability. Bergy 79 caps 36 goals. Bergy had a much better international strike rate early one, but Cantona's is not half bad.

Decaf
April 20, 2005

I don't think that the comparison between Dennis and Cantona is ridiculous at all. And Cantona's temperament was not all bad: arrogance can be a grand thing on a football field. I also found his injudicious and sometime decaf-esque remarks refreshing. How can you not like a guy who threatens to pees on people's arses?

Bernard
April 20, 2005

I just can't believe anyone would try arguing that Giggs is better than Pires. That idea is utterly ridiculous.

chocolate gooner
April 20, 2005

Grunny… on the homegrown talent argument I have to say that you’ve just reproduced the popular tabloid myths for us. Fergie to his credit hoovered up most of the gifted youngsters in England whilst managers like our own GG were not as aggressive in recruiting young talent. So Fergie had an advantage when it came to “English” youngsters. To compare like with like… how many quality “English” players have come through your youth system since the FA introduced its restrictions? Chadwick? Kieran Richardson? Rooney cost you a fortune. The fact remains that we have been fielding one of the youngest sides in the premiership this season and we have some of the most gifted youngsters in the world at our club… and we didn’t have to break the bank to get them either. We are also producing some of the most gifted and promising young English players who are playing in the premiership today. Upson at Birmingham may have been good enough for Arsenal in the past but the standard has risen so much that he can play for England but not for us. The same is true of Jerome Thomas at Charlton, who looks a real prospect. Sidwell was recently voted the best player in the Championship and he too would have been good enough in the past. Then there are other players like Boa Morte and Volz; so we are producing quality. And need I remind you of Bentley?? Given what he almost did to you for Norwich at OT … and what he did do to you at Carrow Road when he came on as a sub and even he isn’t guaranteed a future at the club. in any event talking of young English players is an utter Red Herring, there is no evidence that we discriminate against English players… if they are not good enough they should go elsewhere … like Pennant… if they are good enough, like Ash, they’ll have to be world class and as far as I’m concerned that’s a good thing. Finally the reason Fergie has so many English players is because he is simply not culturally sophisticated enough to deal with foreign players. Look at the guys who have failed and are failing at your club… from Veron to Kleberson. We on the other hand have a veritable United Nations of a team and can still match anyone in the EPL for camaraderie and team spirit… that mate, takes genius! And your arguments on Cantona change very little of the bare facts… he played in a very poor Premiership and the value of his record in England is exaggerated by that fact. For my part I quite liked him as a character but the bottom line is that he was only a slightly Okay fish in a mediocre pond… Bergkamp on the other hand is pure class. Cheers.

Juliano
April 20, 2005

Correction-Houiller never overlooked Cantona for the french team. His (and Platini's team) were a team of workmanlike players without much technique or tactics, and two forwards who were complimenting each other well : Papin and Cantona. Houiller failed after early promises, as he always do, and in came Jacquet, who didn't pick Cantona because he felt he had too much of a temper/ego and that it wasn't good for the sake of the team. Until then, Cantona had been an automatic first choice for France.

Mee
April 20, 2005

Grunny: You seem a fair-minded, intelligent, analytical kind of bloke, a bit like us Arsenal fans. I notice that Man U and Arsenal now have a common enemy in Kenyon and that consequently relations between Wenger and Ferguson, whilst not at the sharing a bottle of claret stage, are improving.

grunny
April 20, 2005

sorry. Here goes. I never saw George Best or Bobby Charlton play other than on tape so I feel dangerously underqualifed (and underaged) to answer. I did, however, see Eric Cantona and he was awesome.

Cannon Balls
April 20, 2005

Interesting post Grunny and football is all about opinions. I note though that you avoided giving yours on the Cantona is better than Best and co ?. Also it's interesting that there is a reflective edge to your posts, already it seems that you United supporters are looking back on a past era...

grunny
April 20, 2005

Interesting posts all.... Here's what I have to say: Most arguments centre on Cantona. I will definitely agree his European record wasn't great (although we do as well now as we did with him back then, not that it says much.) His temperament? Definitely a weakness and strength at alternative times during his Utd career. But to say Bergkamp has a great Euro record where Cantona doesn't just isn't true, at least for his club side. He barely travels to away games, doesn't have the scoring record Cantona did (and NO Eric wasn't an out and out striker, played a very similar role to DB10) Where the difference is, is at International level. Eric Cantona (like Paul Gascoigne before him, excepting Euro 96) wasn't considered a good "fit" at International level by a succession of managers (Gerard Houllier amongst them) because of his aggression and attitude, something only Sir Fergie managed to channel successfully. Agreed the EPL was weak during the early years, but do not forget Blackburn won the title only on the last day and by spending an insane amount of money by 1995 standards to do so. Everyone forgets Cantona scored the only goal in a long succession of 1-0 wins to get us to 2 titles, and had starring roles in the other 2 he masterminded. Everyone forgets that Man Utd's team around Cantona was not great either. Shmeichel, Pally, Irwin, Giggsy and Sparky aside, the first 2 title teams were average by anyone's standards (Paul Parker, Lee Sharpe anyone?) It was Cantona who glued that side together after his transfer from Leeds for the princely sum of 1 million pounds. Good bit of business I'd say... As far as a Wenger v Ferguson debate that several have raised. Perhaps Ferguson has more money to spend, and has spent, but both managers have made mistakes (Jeffers, Cygan) but Fergusons are more expensive (Veron [great player in a bad system for him], Forlan, Barthez) . What about finding and raising home grown talent? Fergie has his fledglings ranging from the great (Beckham, Giggs, Scholes) to the good (G Neville, Butt) to the nauseating (P Neville) and the tradition continues today where Darren Fletcher is a good player only getting better. Wenger has....um...Steven Hughes? Ashley Cole is the only great player that comes to mind. Technically, I LOVE the way Arsenal play when in full flight, but HATE that they do it. This is a positive reflection of Wenger, as opposed to the enormous stack of red cards earned by his players under his reign of course... Oh that reminds me, anyone who says Cantona had a terrible temperament and then says DB10 is a "clean" player needs their memory examined. Of course that goal he scored against Newcastle at St James makes up for it. Thats one of my favourite goals of all time by the way. I know I'm at the wrong forum for it, but in my humble opinion, EC7 shades DB10. Henry the greatest premiership player ever? I'd probably go for Shearer ahead of him, but the gap is closing. Pires better than Giggs?? NO WAY! Don't forget what an incredible talent Giggs was when he came through, and that he can still turn a game today, but in a more cerebral way. Pires plays more as a central midfielder anyway as Arsenal don't know the meaning of the word "winger". I think the last time I saw a genuine cross in an Arsenal game was in 1997. Anyways I've tried to get to as many points as possible but in summary, here's my United/Arsenal Ferguson/Wenger combine 11: Shmeichel (best keeper in the last 20 years anywhere, end of story), G Neville/Dixon (extremely similar players in both style and ability, GN2 with a tad more pace), Adams, Stam (no brainer), A Cole (shades Irwin for attacking ability), Beckham, Keane, Vieira, Giggs, Henry, Cantona (I think that list chooses itself, Beckham over Overmars because I want this team to have actual passing ability, Giggs over Pires cause I want an actual winger.) Bench: Seaman, Irwin, Pires, Scholes, Bergkamp, Petit, Ruud) And to finish on a little anecdote: I once sent a video file named "Great Arsenal Moment" to hedges where he eagerly awaited a suprise. When he opened the file he was greeted with the Giggs 1999 FA Cup replay goal which he had never seen. See, Man Utd fans are tricky bastards! :) Cheers.

JamesLT
April 20, 2005

I always liked Cantona and would have loved to see him at Highbury. The version of the story I heard when he left Leeds was that after falling out with Howard Wilkinson he demanded a transfer from Leeds in writing and also warned them that the only other English teams he'd play for were ManUre or Arsenal. It was just coincidence that the Jockroach called Sgt. Wilko the same morning to enquire about another club and Wilko immediately offered him Cantona (at a knock-down price to get rid of him). If someone from Arsenal had called Leeds the same day, maybe he'd have arrived at Highbury. Just imagine a front three of IWWW with Cantona and Dennis lurking behind. In fact, just imagine Cantona in the same team as TA& - tat would have been something.

Cannon Balls
April 20, 2005

Mee, despite the huge amount of money being sloushed around at the Bridge it would appear that it does not get everything, or apparently everyone. Gerrard according to the Sun today, (who have now made the Chavs their new public enemy number one in place of us) Gerrard despite being offered Ł120,000 a week is set to decline the offer and stay at Liverpool. He is said to have cancelled negotiations on buying two houses in London during the week and that the anticipated move to Chelsea will like last summer not now occur. The whole scenario at Chelsea with the huge losses being incurred to obtain the anticipated glory casting an air of surrealistic fantasy over the events that are transpiring there... This coupled with the odious conduct of Kenyon,it's amusing watching the goings on with Rio at OT, the drunken jock must be seething at the antics of his former partner in crime!; plus those also of Motormouth Mourinho and the whole package is an obvious threat to the good of the game if Abramovich and his gang should succeed in their nefarious plans. Chelsea cannot even sell all of their tickets for their own games, so they have no chance of attracting the neutral to join the party. Now that Sky see that the viewing figures for the Premiership matches are falling they will start wanting action to halt the monopoly that is being imposed on football for the gratification of Abramovich,if enough bad and unwanted publicity is directed in his direction about his activities in the worlds media he may soon feel it's prudent to go and find something else with which to amuse himself with that's got less of a high profile. He needed 70 body-guards when he attended the match in Munich!, does he really need a lifetime of this sort of pressure???..

Juliano
April 20, 2005

Mee-Plus his infamous attack at the then France manager, Henri Michel, in a TV interview. He said, exactly : "I know that what I'm about to say will backfire on me but M. Michel, he isn't far off being a shitbag" And a couple of years ago, he was on a Satellite TV show about football with three journos, and he started to be really upset at the questions asked and yelled "those who criticize me, I piss on their ass, like I piss on a certain kind of journalists, whose kind you and you (pointing two of the journos) are part of". Cantona at his best. Really close to the class and elegance of Dennis (do I sound gay when I write this btw?)

steve martin
April 20, 2005

John Terry -v- Toure, spot the difference http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?article=271082

steve martin
April 20, 2005

Not only the Guardian http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/articles/18034934

steve martin
April 20, 2005

I maybe partly talking with my heart, more than my head, but I think my head mostly believes what I thinking… Arsenal have to win tonight, here me out… (Scenario 1) Chelsea 11 points clear of us, six games left… Should Chelsea win, they would be 14 points clear of us and United (should they win tonight, with five games left (15 Points, two needed against Fulham on Saturday to win the League… (Scenario 2) Arsenal win tonight, eight points difference, with five game (15 points ) left… Meaning that Chelsea will have to play to win at least their next three games, they would need 8 points, which you cannot get from three games, only 7 or 9… They also have to play Liverpool twice in the Champs League… I also believe the pressure of winning the title for the CLUB for the first time in 50 years will hamper them… So we win and they require 8 points from 15, not so easy when you have a team on your back and you have to Play Fulham and Charlton at home and Bolton, Man Utd and Newcastle (a) and the team behind you is used to the pressure at this stage of the season… We must win tonight…

Mee
April 20, 2005

Well said EEGooner. Also the temperament of an individual is an essential part of what makes a very good player like Cantona fall short of being described as a great player like Bergkamp. Although Denis has his share of both yellow and red cards, his overall demeanour both on and off the pitch provides a template of how a sports star should behave. Cantona’s surly arrogance with,his own team mates, the opposition and authority in general, downgrades any realistic assessment of him.

Mee
April 20, 2005

There seems to be a clear understanding within the media about the Abramovich regime, Sibneft oil and the means of acquiring it, which will prevent Chelsea from enjoying the kind of response usually accorded to most PL winning teams. The Guardian article this morning suggested that some of their own fans now accept the view that Abros vast wealth has distorted the market. Football is big business and while most club directors have a less than altruistic approach to running their clubs, I am not aware that their individual actions have such a devastating effect on the population at large. In comparison to the way Chelsea are financed and run, the remainder of the PL should be entitled to wear a ‘Fairtade’ logo on their shirts.

Rob K
April 20, 2005

Is PV4 close to his annual yellow card accumulation ban? If so when would he have to incur more yellows to miss the cup final?

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

As for Cantona, I believe he was successful in a very poor time for the English top flight. I mean it was won by that piss poor Leeds side before you finally got there. If he was so good in big games, why was it only domestically he did anything? His European record was terrible and he knew it. Henry is the Champion's League third highest scorer. Cantona was there at the right time when the opposition was at its weakest. He wouldn't have the impact now. For a start he was never in good enough physical condition. And a popular vote just made Radiohead the greatest album of all time. Any vote now is skewed by the younger voters who have no idea about what went before. To vote for Cantona is to shame the club who had Edwards, Best and Law.

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

grunny - wait no longer. I said when given the opportunity to play together against them Vieira and Petit were better than Keane and Scholes. Due to injuries and suspensions it was a rarity. But I saw them enough to know they dominated them when they matched up. You wont find me arguing that during the 00/01 and 01/02 seasons you had a better squad but to just look at the trophies is a poor indicator. How many years have Keane and Scholes played together for their trophies. Vieira and Petit made three in total. As for Giggs, it surprises me that he is still around when his impact has been tiny over the last five years. Again, talking of his 15 years doesn't make sense because neither Overmars nor Pires had the chance to match it on time. Pires was player of the season and did more than anyone to win the title in 2002. I said you had to look at each player's peak.

tom
April 20, 2005

I know the boys took a bit of a kicking from Hughes's Hoofers on Saturday but that was our only game in the last 10 days. Hopefully there will still be plenty left in the tank for tonight and the rest of the season. Sol, Senderos, Gilberto, PV, van Persie - none of them have played that much tis season so they should all be pretty fresh.

Xav T
April 20, 2005

Yes, American, the crowd was very loud. The good thing was that there were two sections, for home and away fans. That allowed us to sing together which was nice (unlike at Barnet where everyone is mixed together). Obviously the spirits in the Arsenal ranks were quite high after the first goal, but then the ref started his funny game and gave them a ridiculous penalty (this happened just in front of us, so we knew there was no penalty) and Taylor and his defence started to make it easy for the Spurs forwards. So the atmosphere went a bit down. However Lupoli (twice), Birchall, Smith and Gilbert all had good chances of reducing the deficit and that kept our hopes alive (particularly Lupoli with his admirable impression of Hasselbank’s attempt at chipping the keeper when one on one). In the last twenty minutes, you would never have thought that Spurs were three goals ahead. We were pushing the team as we finally could feel some urgency in the players. The two goals we got were a nice reward. So overall a nice evening out. ***** I feel very nervous for tonight’s game. When we left the Bridge last year, their fans were very aggressive and I would be really gutted if we have to face them after having lost to that lot. We need to show them that if they want our trophy they have to really fight for it! Come on Arsenal!

Decaf
April 20, 2005

You see, Bernard, you make provocative remarks about chocolate, and viola! its back.

Niall
April 20, 2005

Totally agree with Juliano re: Cantona and am staggered he gets in ahead of Best, Charlton, Law et al as best ever player. Big fish in small pond is correct but fair play, his success helped open up the foreign market and the game here exploded. Very good player but nothing for France internationally either whereas Bergkamp is a Dutch legend which is a better barometer of where each player stands. Would probably include Stam though beside Adams, a brick of a defender and one of Fergie's biggest mistakes. Wenger has really come out fighting in the press today so I hope the lads put in a decent performance for him tonight and show the Premiership we will not be walked over next season. Will he play Campbell to counter the threat of Drogba? I reckon there is a good chance the Sol man will return tonight. Hoping to see RVP given a run out but I expect the team to be unchanged from Saturday but Campbell in and Cesc in for Ljungberg.

Decaf
April 20, 2005

Bernard, the liberal creed applies: you leave cakes alone and they will leave you alone. It is only when provoked, or subjected to slice of race-hatred that they, quite rightly, will try to ice you.

chocolate gooner
April 20, 2005

Grunny… I feel that I have to point out the basic flaw in your argument… when you talk of the ManUre’s team being better, you are also referring to your strength in depth and not your first eleven alone. And the argument seems to me to be about who will have more players in an elite eleven… I think we have had the best 1st team for at least 5 years, if not more; and being an arsenal fan I would say that but it doesn’t make it untrue. Where United … and now Chelsea have an advantage is in the strength of their respective squads and that advantage is mainly down to them having more money. So to suggest that you won all those titles because your best eleven was in any way superior to ours is not a credible argument. If we had a striker other than Kaba Diawara when we played Leeds at Elland Road in ’99, the year you won the title by a point, (despite having spent 35m GBP more than us) we would have been champions… not you. If we didn’t end up losing Anelka, Overmars and Petit whilst you had a settled team that you also added to… do you imagine that you’d have won as many titles as easily as you did? If we had a more confident back up than Cygan in defence 2 seasons ago even your much fabled run at the end of that season would not have been enough… and finally if we didn’t have to play so many youngsters in so many league matches this season in the absence of Gilberto and Edu as well as others… you wouldn’t even be anywhere near us in the table despite have splurged on Rooney and Smith. So it is the strength in depth that is our Achilles heel not our 1st eleven. And for those who keep going on about Keane being a ManUre player through and through… give it a rest. Wasn’t he the guy who demanded 90, 000 GBP a week and threatened to walk if he wasn’t paid? The fact is that Vieira remains with us despite being coveted by some of the biggest teams in the world and he isn’t on anything like 90k a week… Keane is at ManUre because he is very well rewarded for being there and also because no one’s ever offered him more money to my knowledge… I wonder why? IMHO Keane is a very inspirational Leader and a good player but Vieira is technically superior as a footballer. As for comparing Giggs and Pires… you’re having a larff, surely? Cantona v Bergkamp… everything that needs to be said on that one has been said by others. On a further point… in my opinion any real comparison between the teams has to look at the amount of money each manager has had to spend… and on that basis if Wenger v Fergie were a boxing match the authorities won’t even sanction it. Cheers all.

Mee
April 20, 2005

Thanks for posting that link Steve, it gives a nice summary of what we all know to be true about Abramovichs background. For those reasons Chelsea’s success will always devalued, paradoxically, by the amount of money they‘re prepared to throw at winning.

Decaf
April 20, 2005

Bored, you are wrong: I can't get enough of TH.

steve martin
April 20, 2005

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1463780,00.html

Mee
April 20, 2005

Surely there can be no debate about DB10 over Cantona - I think the reference to International football speaks louder than words. I think Cantona came to the fore at the time united were presaging claims to become the worlds biggest club, certainly in terms of marketing, and as such attracted acolytes to their cause who had very little understanding of the game. Cantona became their talisman more because the seagulls were chasing the trawler and the infamous palace kick, than for any sustained brilliance at the highest level. To use a pop analogy his fans represent the Bay City Rollers rather than Denis’s Soft Machine.

Cannon Balls
April 20, 2005

Not being a United supporter, or known either for any admiration of the Club or it's present manager, i am rather puzzled by the voting of it's supporters for Cantona to be the clubs greatest ever player. George Best was the greatest player that i ever saw in a United shirt and one of the greats of any in fact .Pele described him has the greatest player ever. I can only assume that those supporters who voted Cantona are the ones who jumped on the United band-waggon to go glory hunting back in the early 90's - and are the same ones that we saw leaving OT early at the end in droves during recent goaless draws that have occured. And also glogged up the radio phone-in lines moaning after the 2-0 defeat to lowly Norwich,talk about laugh when your winning!. Cantona was well over-rated playing in a very weak league at the time that even Blackburn won by pipping United to the titleone year. United coud afford to lose 5 games and still Cantona to the title. Wenger bought some real competitition to the prooceedings and Eric disappeared off of the radar into history followed by a flock of Sea Gulls. Bergkamp was a true world class talent not just a catalyst for the club,Cantona made no impression at International level for France nor of any significance in Europe either. The real reasons for Uniteds success at that time was the emergence of the young players that all came through at the same time in particular Beckham,some good signings like Stam and Schmeical,Keane not much astutness though required to have spotted those ones on Fergusons part, only the money required to buy them. On Keane v Vieira, United tried desperately to sign Vieria along with Real Madrid, who it seems still are, so Ferguson must rate Vieira after making attempts to lure him to OT. Keane and Vieira have different styles of playing, so comparasions are difficult, but i would give Vieira the edge at his best - and if medals won are being placed into the equation Vieira can throw World- Cup and Euro Champions medals onto the table. And like they used to say in the Old-West a pair of Colt .45's beats four aces every time.

Juliano
April 20, 2005

Cantona ahead of Bergy, that's got to be a complete joke! Cantona did well at Man Utd, but as someone mentioned he did it when the English top flight probably was at its lowest, and had trouble closing the gap with other leagues after the 5 years Heysel ban. Big fish in a small pond springs to mind. And internationaly, there's no comparison. Dennis has played and starred in 5 international tournaments, I think he was top scorer in Sweden 92 with 5 goals, he is a twice world cup semi finalist who has scored some of the tournament's best goals, was a semifinalist at Euro 2000. All Cantona can show for it is a spot in one of the poorest France team at Euro 92. How could Cantona be voted United player of the century ahead of Charlton or Best shows how many johnny come latelys compose their fan base.

gaz from Oz
April 20, 2005

My only hope for the Chelsea game is for us to play well and take our chances. But if you asked me to pick between winning against Chelsea and the Cup final then I would chose the cup final because of my dislike of Utd. I am not in favour of Sol coming back into the side. i think he has been far from in good form all year and I would rather stay with Senderos and see jsut how good he is. My prediction 2-1 to us.

Mee
April 20, 2005

Rich: Your present a very cohesive argument for a combined Arsenal/Man U team and I don’t think there will be many dissenters from within either camp on your selection, just natural predujice tending to favour ones own. However, these ‘dream-teams’ are never called upon to perform and so we are denied the answer to how well they play together. The really great teams are rarely just an assemblage of big names, there is often an individual like Kevin Richardson who on paper looks weak, but in reality is an essential component of the team. You haven’t mentioned the manager - surely it has to be Wenger.

goonerguru
April 20, 2005

Morning all,the Chav's will have a full team tonight and be nice and fresh after not having a game at the weekend,we on the other hand have been kicked all over the pitch by BBurn and also have our top scorer out so on paper we don't look to have much of a chance.The best defence in the league against the best attack minus TH14 appears to edge the game in their favour but football is all about current form rather than what happened in years gone by or even at the start of this season,as I said the best defence .v. the best attack well in the last 12 games that each team have played that is not the case,the Chav's have conceded 16 goals against our 7 so current form says that we are defending better than Chelsea,in attack they have scored 27 to our 22 but in those 12 games the best striker in the world has only played in 7 of them so I don't think our scoring record is too bad considering that.Also in those 12 games they have lost 3 times to our 1,if you strip out the last 6 league games from those 12 each team has the same record with the exception of the goals against column they have 6 against our 3,I am starting to believe SteveM and can see a 1-0 to the Arsenal tonight.

Rich
April 20, 2005

Grunny - the Arsenal/Man U XI is a very difficult collection to come up with. I think the two teams would have to be based from the Wenger years onwards only. The Vieira/Petit combination was cut short due to Petit's greedyness, so we will never know how many titles Arsenal could have won with this partnership? Add to this that when Wenger took over Man U were already Champions, for the last 2 years so the team was far more moulded together and needed less changing, which makes Wengers double in his first season even more remarkable! There are very few players that both sets of supporters would agree are a definate in the XI. Seaman was fantastic for us but have to confess that Schmeical was slightly better. If we were picking a team to actually play together I would go for the entire famous back-four, because of their know-how of each other. If each player is picked individually then there are arguments for Dixon/Neville and Cole/Irwin which each supporter would probably pick their own. CB's, Adams would have to be in there as the No.1, even more so seeing as Ferguson tried to sign him! Then, again there would be a difference of opinion depending on who you support. CM is a no brainer and is Vieira and Keane, RM I would give to Beckham, although a Ljungberg playing in our system is more effective (we don't cross the ball) LM will split us again, Giggs as you said has been in the 1st team for 15 years, but is his form wince Wenger took over better than say a 20 goal a season Overmars or Pires. I think Pires has taken that position to a new level, effectively becoming the teams playmaker and the shear amount of goals and assists cannot be matched by Giggs. Also didn't Pires win a Player of the Year award in 2002? Up-front, Henry is surely the best player to grace the Premiership, and now actually has the best goals to minutes ratio of any striker past or present in the premiership. Twice Player of the Year (doesn't rely on pens etc) Regulary top of the assist charts too. No Man U fan would deny him as 1st choice striker. As before if you look for a partner for Henry then it's Bergkamp all the way, Man U fans may see it differently if the position is an individual spot but I am still going for the greatest foreign import to our game, getting on 10 seasons now with the same club, again a Player of the Year, 1,2,and 3 in goal of the month lives strong in the memory and back to back player of the month awards. From the start of the season until Xmas of 1997 was the most devestating spell of any footballer in the Prem. So my team would be: Schmeical, Dixon/Neville, Adams, Keown/Pallister/Bruce, Cole/Irwin, Beckham, Vieira, Keane, Pires, Henry, Bergkamp

kiwipete
April 20, 2005

Grunny .. Cantona Utd's best ever...? the vote must have been confined to the under 15's. Do think Keane however much some on here hate him has produced far more than Vieira. He is Utd thru and thru while Vieira has half an eye on greener pastures.

Cannon Balls
April 20, 2005

OMOH,only time will tell if Cambell is not the player he was. Quite clearly he's been off of the pace this season for reasons that are well documented. However AW just gave him a new contract so must feel that there is still a future for him. Once upon a time long ago in a far away land lived a young girl called Snow White who shared a small house with seven Dwarfs.They had lots of fun and games together at night after the Dwarfs had returned from working down the gold-mine. The little Dwarfs loved watching football on TV while downing cans of Special Brew Lager and singing raucous football songs and throwing the emty cans at each other. Each Dwarf supported a different team and would argue furiously about the merits of them,even trading personal insults. But after each nights drunken debauchery at Snow Whites little house they would march off to the gold- mine in a line wearing their little woolen hats and big boots with picks and shovels on their shoulders singing:"Hi ho hi ho it's off to work we go!". Then one awful afternoon there was a knock on the door at Snow Whites little house she was still in bed recovering from the previous nights activities with the Seven very randy Dwarfs and nursing a huge hangover. Quick cried a voice there's been a cave-in at the mine the Dwarfs are trapped in the Tunnel!. Rushing to the scene she was greeted by the Mining Engineer who informed her that they were doing everything they could to dig out the Dwarf s who were trapped below the ground tons of rubble:" Oh please", gasped Snow White throatly: " Save my poor Dwarfs we have so much fun together." "I am sure you do", replied the Engineer leeringly. Suddenly a recue worker cried out: "I can hear one of them singing!" The mining Engineer listened and could clearly hear the sound of a dwarf singing: "The little buggers singing a football song." He told Snow White: "At least Dopey's alive." He added: "How do you know that it's Dopey?" sobbed poor Snow White. "Because he's singing a Tottenham song." Replied the Engineer.

old man of hoy
April 20, 2005

The cheese on toast awaits me as does the metropolis on this alarmingly grey day. Cantona was good but not that good - Dennis has been faraway the best non-Brit to play in our domestic game. I rush towards my duties but leave you wth a reflection. A Briton, a Frenchman and a Russian are viewing a painting of Adam and Eve strolling in the Garden of Eden. "Look at their reserve, their calm," muses the Brit. "They must be British." "Nonsense," the Frenchman disagrees. "They're naked, and so beautiful. Clearly, they are French." "No clothes, no shelter," the Russian points out, "they have only an apple to eat, and they're being told this is paradise. They are Russian."

Aussie Gooner
geezzaa_goona@hotmail.com
April 20, 2005

At the recent game vs. Norwich, my sister, an old school pal of Robert Green,called him over. He told her how he had just had a meeting with David Dein and was looking for a place in London.The only stumbling block seems to be the bizarre fact that he will be our 2ND CHOICE gk ... doesnt seem to make sense considering how well the Lehamn/Almunia combo hasn't worked. Green, King, Wright-Phillips and Owen, not a bad summer spree!

Steve c/o Coldiz
April 20, 2005

Sorry Grunny,I spelt your namewrong,no offence intended.Steve

Steve c/o Coldiz
April 20, 2005

Hi Gummpy,your imput is most welcome.You have a fair point.The diffrence is they way the two teams play.Giggs as a youngster was very direct and the bst british winger of our generation.He could beat people fo speed and could go past a player.Overmars was basicaly just speed and had a god shot.Gigs -overmars at their best,its hard to say.Pires is a class different.Technicaly he is way above the forementioned,can play intricate high paced football,can score from outside the area,is faster than he looks.However he has his faults,falls down,of mediterean temprement.Still if one was building a side of high tempo footy ala Barca most would chose Pires.If one built a team based on solidness ala Bayern then you´d go for Giggs.To end the debate if one was going for a huggy bear chest then one would opt for....

grunny
adzgrun@hotmail.com
April 20, 2005

In reponse to Hedges and East End Gooner. I was told about this board by my real life friend Hedges. I am a United fan, and would thus expect my opinions to count for naught on this forum, but I feel it must be said. East End Gooner claims that every time Keane and Scholes came up against Petit and Vieira, our midfield(Utd) lost out. Without checking past results, I seem to remember a 3-2 win for you guys at Highbury where David Platt scored the winner, but I also remember a 2-1 win for us at Highbury where Keano scored both. Also, you won the title once with Petit and Vieira as your midfield, we've won 5 with Keano and Scholesy. Longevity does count for something. Roy Keane and Patrick Vieira are the 2 pre-eminent midfielders of this era in England, and if I say Keane was superior, I would have the trophies to back this up. Any argument against this would have to consist of a line of reasoning based on Man Utd having a superior team around Keane than Arsenal has around Vieira. Well if that's the case, then how come your combined Wenger-Ferguson XI would have Pires/Overmars over Giggs? Even the most blinkered of ABUs would concede the incredible ability and sustained impact that Giggs has had for almost 15 years at the top level. I also assume you call Cantona 2nd tier? In my opinion, that is a horrific error in judgement. Voted by United fans as the greatest to ever wear the red shirt, he was a man who was the ultimate big game player (he always scored when it mattered). I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

I agree but I want ALL our records to be maintained, the significant ones and the not so significant. And breaking it would give the Chav supporters one more reason to take the piss.

mcquilkie
April 20, 2005

American, I have to say I'm not too fussed about us holding on to the 'least goals conceded in a Premier League season' record. I don't think we need to bother ourselves too much about artificial records dating back a mere 10 years or so. Liverpool's 16 goals conceded in 42 games in 1978/79 was a monumental achievement and is the real benchmark. Arsenal hold enough authentic records for us not to bother with Premier League ones e.g. first side unbeaten away from home in a season for over a century, unbeaten in an entire league season, scoring goals in the highest number of consecutive games etc ...

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

Which changing room is the 'lucky' one at Cardiff? And do we have that one?

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

This Chelsea team can't be compared to the past. Its like a new club. Same way the '98 - present Arsenal doens't resemble the one from a few years before it. Hopefully the boys are highly motivated. I still think we are the last remaining club that they have to hurdle to have total belief. Until they can beat us in the league and regularly so, we'll have a certain edge. I recall Terry saying after our draw that they showed that there is nothing between the two clubs anymore. That they came back twice against us. They don't see Man Yoo in their class. When they beat Man Yoo they didn't need to say, we've gotten better than Man Yoo, they already believed it. Also, the fact that they were down twice and came back should have been a concern to a club who thinks they are the best in the league, but they still have a last remaining mental hurdle called Arsenal to overcome. I hope we keep that hurdle.

old man of hoy
April 20, 2005

The force is clearly with Chelsea so anything more than a draw tomorrow will be a wonderful achievement. They have had time to rest while we were getting kicked to bits in Cardiff. My worry is that Le Boss will bring back Sol and disrupt the Toure/Senderos partnership - the big guy is no longer the player he was and is not entitled to an automatic place in the team. Also i feel Mourinho will prey on Lauren who is also now a slower version of our former gladiator - expect plenty of pressuredown the right side. Naturally i would love to be wrong but expect to be right. A woman awakes during the night, and her husband isn’t in bed with her. She goes downstairs to look for him. She finds him sitting at the kitchen table with a cup of coffee in front of him. He appears to be in deep thought, just staring at the wall. She watches as he wipes a tear from his eye and takes a sip of his coffee. "What's the matter, dear?" she asks. "Why are you down here at this time of night?" The husband looks up from his coffee, "Do you remember 20 years ago when we were dating, and you were only 16?" he asks solemnly. "Yes, I do," she replies. "Do you remember when your father caught us in the back seat of my car making love?" "Yes, I remember," says the wife, lowering herself into a chair beside him. The husband continues, "Do you remember when he shoved the shotgun in my face and said, 'Either you marry my daughter, or I'll send you to jail for 20 years?’" "I remember that, too," she replies softly. He wipes another tear from his cheek and says, "I would have gotten out today."

Gaz from Oz
April 20, 2005

Anyone who saw Rob Styles performances in the Palace game and again today may wish to revisit their view that he should be okay for the Cup.

BIG-MATCH FACTS
April 20, 2005

CHELSEA against Arsenal pits the top two teams in the country, the champions-elect against the FA Cup finalists and the tightest defence in the Premiership against the most prolific scorers. It's the 26th top flight London derby of the season. Blues manager Jose Mourinho wants his charges to clinch the clubs' second League title of their 100 years history as soon as possible. Victory over the Gunners would mean they'd need only to beat neighbours Fulham at Stamford Bridge this Saturday lunchtime to be crowned "Champions of England" for the first time in 50 years. The Champions League semi-finalists and Carling Cup winners are aiming to extend the longest unbeaten run in the Premiership to 24 matches. Pter Cech is just two clean sheets short of equalling Manchester United's record of 24 shut-outs in a single Premiership campaign (1994/95), and in line to end the season with the tightest defence ever in the Premier League era. They can afford to ship four more goals in their six remaining games and still beat Arsenal's mark of 17, set when finishing runners-up in 1998/99. Also Mourinho's men are just 12 points short of setting a new Premier League points total of 93, passing the 92 banked by Manchester United in winning the crown in 1993/94 when 42 games were played. They need 11 points to eclipse the highest total amassed in a 20-club Premiership, also bagged by the Red Devils in the 1999/2000 title winning season. Chelsea have won only three of their 25 previous Premiership exchanges with Arsenal, and have not claimed three points at home against them since Mark Hughes scored the only goal of the game on 30 September 1995. When these sides last met for their eagerly awaited top of the table clash at Highbury in December, honours were even in a game of goals and controversy. Thierry Henry opened the scoring after 75 seconds and John Terry equalised with a powerful header on 17 minutes. Eidur Gudjohnsen bundled the ball in for a point in the second half. Henry had restored the lead in the 29th minute with a quickly taken free kick, allowed by referee Graham Poll, even though the Chelsea defence and goalkeeper were still organising the wall. ARSENAL trail Chelsea by 11 points, and know that they must beat Manchester United in the FA Cup final at the Millennium Stadium on 21 May if they're to claim silverware from this campaign. They've won their last four Premiership matches, and last eight in all competitions (counting the FA Cup fifth round tie against Sheffield United won on penalties, as a victory). They've conceded just one goal in those eight League and Cup outings, and have won all 12 Premiership matches in which clean sheets have been kept. The Highbury club have netted 73 Premiership goals, but in Chelsea face a club who've conceded on average one goal every four hours of League football played. Both clubs hold unbeaten records in London Premiership derbies this season. Arsenal have the most points, having won six and drawn two of their eight fixtures, while Chelsea have won five and drawn two, but have only played seven. Arsene Wenger's men were the last to record a Premiership victory at Stamford Bridge on 21 February 2004, since when Chelsea have been unbeaten in 22 League encounters. The Gunners have not been beaten by Chelsea in 18 Premiership meetings, winning 10 and drawing eight. They've won four and drawn four of their last eight League visits to Stamford Bridge. Arsenal were knocked out of the Champions League by the Blues last season, but ousted Chelsea from the FA Cup and completed a Premiership 'double' over them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Referee: Graham Poll (Tring) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SEQUENCES/RECENT FORM CHELSEA Club stats Fixtures Going into the midweek fixtures: 1st 81 points (all statistics are ahead of the midweek programme of Premiership fixtures) Accrued ten more points to this identical stage than last season, which was their best yet in the Premiership, when finishing runners-up. Dropped 15 points from six drawn games and one defeat. The least points dropped in a Premiership season was 23 by Manchester United in 1999/2000 when crowned champions with 91 points. Lost only one of 32 games in the highest echelon this season - no club can match that. On the season's best and longest current unbeaten run in the Premiership of 23 matches. Won 19 and drawn four (61 points from a possible 69) since losing 1-0, away to Manchester City, on 16 October. Aiming for a 26th Premiership maximum this season. Second only to Arsenal in the goal scoring stakes. Chelsea have netted 62 times in the Premiership, the Gunners 73. Conceded just 12 times in the highest League, that's an average of one every 240 minutes (four hours). The Premiership's record for "fewest goals against" is 17 by Arsenal when runners-up in 1998/99. Managed 30 clean sheets from their 51 League and Cup games this term. Kept more clean sheets in the Premiership than any other club (22). Won 19 and drawn three of the 22. On course to beat the highest number of clean sheets in a 20-club Premiership - Arsenal's 23 in 1998/99. The most shut-outs in a top flight campaign was Liverpool's 28 in 1978/79, and the highest number in a Premier League crusade was Manchester United's 24 in 1994/95. Failed to score in four Premiership matches. Only Arsenal have fired blanks less often (twice). Scored first in 25 matches at the highest level (won 24, drawn one). Arsenal have opening the scoring in 26 top flight games. Conceded the opening goal in only four of 30 League games - fewer than any other Premiership club. Of those quartet, one match was won, two drawn and one lost. Scored 15 times in the last 15 minutes of Premiership games this season - no club can match that. Conceded only once in the last quarter-hour of top division games this term. No club can equal that. Holding the best disciplinary record in the top tier (no red cards, 43 yellow). Second in the Premiership's "Last Six Current Form" table with 16 points out of the 18 - trailing only Arsenal on goal difference. Gained 40 points, winning 12 times, in home Premiership games. Conceded only five times at home - fewer than any other club. One of two clubs still with an unbeaten home record in the top flight - Manchester United is the other. Undefeated in 22 League games at Stamford Bridge. Won 16 and drawn six top tier encounters at the Bridge, since losing 1-2 to Arsenal on 21 February 2004. Looking for a 26th home League and Cup game this season without loss, and 34th in all, since the defeat by the Gunners. Managed 12 clean sheets in League exchanges at the Bridge. ARSENAL Club stats Fixtures Going into the midweek fixtures: 2nd 70 points (all statistics are ahead of the midweek programme of Premiership fixtures) Won the last eight against Sheffield United (FA Cup, on penalties), Portsmouth (PL), Bayern Munich (CL), Bolton (FA Cup), Blackburn (PL), Norwich (PL), Middlesbrough (PL) and Blackburn (FA Cup). Undefeated in nine in all competitions. Won eight and drawn one since losing to Bayern Munich 3-1 in the Champions League in Germany on 22 February. Conceded one goal in eight League and Cup outings. Won 21 Premiership games so far this season. Only Chelsea (25) have won more. Lost four top division games. Only Chelsea (one), and Manchester United (three) have lost less. Scored 73 top tier goals (one every 39 minutes on average) - more than any other club. Failed to score in two Premiership games - fewer than any other club. Lost both matches (v Manchester Utd and Bolton - both away). Scored first in 26 matches in the highest echelon. No club can match that. Won all 12 League games when clean sheets have been kept - the best such record in the top division. Scored 30 of their 73 League goals in the quarter-hours either side of half time. Conceded only once in the first 15 minutes of Premiership games this season - fewer than any other club. A total of 58 red cards have been shown to Arsenal players, since Arsene Wenger has been manager. Hold the highest aggregate in the top flight. Their 32 Premiership games have yielded 106 goals (73 for, 33 against). Norwich's is the next highest (101 goals, 35 for, 66 against). Top of the Premiership's "Last Six Current Form" table with 16 points out of the 18 - leading Chelsea on goal difference. Won the last four League and Cup games, away from Highbury. Undefeated in six in all competitions on the road. Not conceded in five matches away from home. Collected 35 Premiership points away from Highbury. Chelsea have 41. Won 11 top flight games on the road. Only Chelsea have done better with 13. Lost one of the last eight Premiership games away from Highbury. Scored 30 goals on their Premiership travels - only Chelsea can beat that (31). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KEY PLAYER NOTES/POTENTIAL MILESTONES CHELSEA Squad profiles Only six goalkeepers have kept more than Petr CECH's 22 clean sheets in a top flight season. Ray Clemence of Liverpool achieved it twice (1978/79 - 28, and 1975/76 - 23), Bob Wilson of Arsenal (1970/71 - 25), David Seaman of Arsenal (1990/91 - 24), Gary Sprake of Leeds (1968/69 - 24), Colin Boulton of Derby (1971/72 - 23) and Peter Shilton of Nottingham Forest (1977/78 - 23). Eidur GUDJOHNSEN needs one goal to take his tally for English clubs to 100 (Bolton and Chelsea). ARSENAL Squad profiles Thierry HENRY still holds a commanding lead in the list of club goals among Premiership players despite an injury lay off. He's netted 30 - eight more than Jermain DEFOE of Tottenham. HENRY also leads the way in the Barclays Golden Boot standings with 25 Premiership goals, six ahead of Andy JOHNSON of Crystal Palace. The French scoring ace is within four goals of Ian Wright's record 185 for Arsenal. If on the field at kick off, Ashley COLE will be making his 150th career League start. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LAST SEASON'S CORRESPONDING GAME: Chelsea 1-2 Arsenal 21 February 2004 - Ref: Mike Riley Chelsea scorer: Gudjohnsen 1 Arsenal scorers: Vieira 15, Edu 21 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS SEASON'S REVERSE FIXTURE: Arsenal 2-2 Chelsea 12 December 2004 - Ref: Graham Poll Arsenal scorers: Henry 2, 29 Chelsea scorers: Terry 17, Gudjohnsen 46 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HEAD TO HEAD TOTALS League: Chelsea 37 wins, Arsenal 57, Draws 41 Prem: Chelsea 3 wins, Arsenal 14, Draws 8 HEAD TO HEAD at Chelsea League: Chelsea 21 wins, Arsenal 23, Draws 23 Prem: Chelsea 3 wins, Arsenal 5, Draws 4

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

dandan, I recall the commentator mentioning the time of possession during the first half and we had the monster share, ask the Blackburn supporters how is it possible to 'boss the game' when you don't have the ball?

Cannon Balls
April 20, 2005

Genever,i did offer to be friends but you would not take the hint but had to be nasty to me again so i reciprocated in kind. Admittedly in retrospect a bit over the top, sorry about that, but you have been likewise unpleseant to me on occasions.I have no objections to anyone arguing with my views in fact i welcome it, but if people resort to personal abuse then i respond likewise. My peace offer still stands. Rob Styles the Cup-Final Referee is getting in some practice in ineptitude and controvery,not that he needs to practice at it too much. The last minute penalty that he awarded Boro at home against Fulham for an innocuous incident was a joke,let's hope that he is on our side in Cardiff or at least neutral, because this clowns actions like Old Mother Rileys at OT could effect the result in the final,no pun intended, analysis.

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

One last wish to add to my list, that Chelsea concede 18 league goals and leave our 17 goals against PL record intact.

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

DaveM, I agree that we haven't beaten too many strong sides this year. Bayern Munic at home, but the tie was pretty much over with, PSV Eindhoven and Newcastle are the strongest sides we've beaten this year. However, I think they may be only slightly mentally tougher. Look at our games since March. We've won games we would have lost or drawn at best in November. Bolton away in the FA cup and Blackburn away in the league and FA cup, while both clubs are in form. Only 1 goal conceded since February. We're certainly tougher than before. How we responded to Blackburn's tactics told me we are a lot stronger mentally than people give us credit for. I would even say that the current Arsenal side right now may turn out to be better than the Septempber Arsenal side. The early side were conceding goals, even though we were scoring in bunches. This side is scoring again (3 against Blackburn, 4 against Norwich) but not conciding anything. It could very well be the blueprint for how to begin the campaign next term. **** Several hundred million quid spent and Chelsea still can't match us in class. We lose and we can still get 2nd. Man Yoo are not looking like world beaters after that 2-0 loss at Norwich. After that, any club figures it can nick at least a draw off them. **** Mee, for me Everton without question is who I'll be cheering for the 4th spot. 'Boro next, the scousers after that and definitely not Bolton due to my disdain for Allardyce. **** dandan, obviously, Mourinho has made a pact with the devil. What I am very curious about is how they will respond when things aren't going their way. I have a feeling they will make some huge, panic buys when it does. Probably at one or both of the full back positions is my guess. And possibly at forward.

Genčve Gooner
April 20, 2005

Thanks for the reply CB. Priceless. You really are.

dandan
dandan@yahoo.com
April 20, 2005

As there seems to be a number of footy anoraks on this site I wondered if any one can remember any side getting three deflected goals in a two legged tie before or were chelsea as lucky in the champions league as i think they were or am i just a sad uncharitable gooner

colorado_gooner
April 20, 2005

I just popped onto a Blackburn Rovers forum (I know old news, but I was skiing in Vail at the weekend and only saw the game last night) and the cr** they were spouting was unreal, things like they bossed the first half, that 3-0 flattered Arsenal and how the ref was so biased towards Arsenal! It moved me to register on the site so that I could post a few home truths! Unfortunately my balanced and articulate (seriously they were)postings were removed, but not before some Neanderthal had replied suggesting that it was a pity that Lucas Neil hadn't done one of his 'specials' and seriously hurt one of the Aresnal players - what a bunch of scumbags; Blackburn - great history, but the sooner this current team returns to the lower leagues where they belong the better!!

Mee
April 20, 2005

The 4th CL place is, to quote Brian Moore - ‘up for grabs now’ . Liverpool. Bolton, Middlesborough and Everton seem incapable of stringing any sort of concerted run together, The top three are so far ahead that virtually any one of 5 or six teams below them could claim that last spot. My point being, that spurs are one of those clubs! Can you imagine a more nightmarish scenario? look at the league table - it is possible.

DaveM
April 20, 2005

Well it's been quite a while since we've beaten a really good side in a competitive game. It would just be so satisfying to start doing that again tomorrow. We're a lot more solid at the back (if Senderos had been in the side for the first game, and there was no particular reason why he should have been, then we'd probably have won), and in particular have three good headers of the ball in the side now. I'm wondering now whether we'll go with Pires and Reyes wide and Bergkamp and VP up front. That's harsh on Cesc, given the way Bergkamp and Reyes have been playing. The wild card is Edu. He hasn't played a game in months though, which may limit him to the bench. The wide men will have to get through a lot of work whoever they are, and if we're to win the strikers (again whoever they are) can't be anonymous. They need to stretch and harry Chelsea, and to hold the ball up effectively. If Reyes doesn't step up tomorrow then I'll want him sold - it has to be the last chance. I think there's more pressure on us than Chelsea. If they lose they're still 8 points clear and will win the league anyway. If we lose we've got a run in battle with ManU ahead, and our run in is difficult. If we win though obviously our confidence would be sky high for those tricky remaining games. I still make them favourites because I think we're more flawed than them - we have more players who may not perform. They also appear mentally tougher than us. However, I still think we've got more talent, and so if everyone plays well then I think we've got too much for them. Let's show them who the Champions are.

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

Rich, I think we'll have our strongest XI for the FA cup final. Clichy and Flamini are the only players I can think of that may not be fit in time. That said, I wonder if Wenger will partner Sol with Senderos or Toure` when Sol is fit? **** Even though I am generally an optomist, I don't hold out much hope for a title this season. If we can make it close (within 4 or 5 points) I'll be happy frankly. All I want us to do is do what is within our power and that is win every game for the rest of year including the FA cup final obviously. We do that we are at least runner up and we have a trophy. On the way to doing that I'd like a couple of things to happen. I'd like us to maintain our defensive form. I'd like Reyes to get a handful of goals. I want Senderos to improve and I want Freddie and Bobby to get 3rd and 4th in the scoring title and Henry to get 30 goals. **** I have a strange feeling only 1 or 2 goals will be scored in the Chelsea game. They don't have Robben. He's a big part of their attack. Time for Arsenal to 'save' football once more. We had to save the English game from being a one club league in '98 since Keegan's Toon Army and Leeds couldnt' do it. Now we are asked to do the same against Chelsea's emergence. This may sound a bit dramatic but we really are the only ones who can stop them. Man Yoo has not been able to beat them in any competition since Roman came aboard and are getting worse each season. 2 back to back 3rd place finishes. One title in the last 3 years is indicative of their backsliding. Its up to us. C'mon you Gunners!!!!

Wirral Gooner
April 20, 2005

Sorry about the typos.glad to see that petit is claiming his place in AW dream team. Still not too sure about Campbell though. What about Keown instead. also Wrightie played under Wenger. but not so sure how to accomodate him in the team. As for shares in clud, do the Hill Wood family still have any holding? Nice to see Lady N B S on the board that name is a blast from the past and a reflection of the steady ownership the club has enjoyed. Lets not float look what it has done to every other club who tried it.

Wirral Gooner
April 20, 2005

I agree with Amrican, we have been lucky with TH14. He has vaery rarely been injured we must learn to win without him because there will be a time when he is missing for at least a couple of weeks, and if we are very unlucky maybe longer. Having said that I feel that he may play tomorrow.i still think we are too far back to take chavski but a win may unsettle their nerves and cause them to look over their shoulder. The Arsenal are coming to get you!!Come on you reds.

AmericanGooner
April 20, 2005

Great report Xav T!! How was the crowd? I would assume it was a bit more than the usual reserve game. Is there any singing? You know I would have made it if I could. I envy you Londoners. **** The best thing about the first month of the season was that we learned we could win without Vieira. I want him to stay but if he leaves, I think it will be a bit easier to have belief that we can still win. We need to do the same regarding Henry. He has been very very lucky to have no serious injuries for a few years now. We must learn to win games without him in case that happens. Lampard won't have much of an easy time of it with Paddy and Silva in the middle. Their counter won't be as effective with Silva, Senderos and an improved back line. We'll probably have Pires and Reyes on the wings and AW may partner Bergkamp with van Persie up front. Its not a bad set up. Fabregas will be on the bench if we need some playmaking magic later on. Aliadiere is looking sharp and could do damage off the bench as well. I am hoping for and looking for a win. They are the ones that are scared or should be. A loss and its just another bad game in an off year for us. A loss for them may put a dent in that indominatable self belief that they claim they have. Best of all, we'll be able to play proper football again. **** Mee, they still didn't score..hehehe...Giggs miss aside, we did very well against them and we didn't have Henry, Bergkamp or Silva. Jeffers and Wiltord were our starting forwards for goodness sake, and this was at OT!! **** A win is also important because Man Yoo are waiting for us to drop points so they can get 2nd place. I'm hoping Everton takes points off them. The Toffees are home and they are fighting for a 4th spot so they have incentive to play well. **** If Stiles continues to hand out red cards like business cards, it can only help us in the final. He'd also have been well aware of the kicking we got from Blackburn. I taped the game and they replayed it last night. The commentator here (I think it was Ian Darke, but not sure) said "...Arsenal are getting a kicking today..." and this was said in the first half. He called some of the Rovers actions 'over the top' and 'thuggery'. I would have used more colorful language. Glad to see Todd getting charged.

Rich
April 20, 2005

With the expected absence on TH14 (maybe AW playing Mourinho at his own game??) I was wondering when the last time was when we played Chelsea or Man U at full strength? Every year Vieira 5th booking of the season seems to rule him out out one of the big games. If TH14 was fit and Sol back and Freddie fit then we would be able to field our strongest XI.

goonerguru
April 20, 2005

Todd charged with violent conduct,he and his manager still insisting that it was an accident,tossers.

MickeySloan
April 20, 2005

XAVT; Good post on the reserve game.I think tomorrows game will be tight but i think we'll nick it 10-0

goonerguru
April 20, 2005

Wenger says Henry will not play tomorrow but Campbell and Edu named in the squad perhaps he will play the Chavs at their own game and play 5 in midfield?

Mee
April 20, 2005

Parkerknoll/Steve Martin: I think a dose of realism is required here - a 4 or 5 goal tally would represent a third of the goals Chelsea have conceded this season! I’m afraid my usual pessimism is nudging me in the direction of a 1-1 draw. I hope I’m proved wrong.

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

Hedges - Pretty much every time Vieira and Petit got the opportunity to play together against Keane and Scholes they simply pissed all over them. Also the Arsenal defence you list having no real weak spot is stronger than the United defence which has Silvestre (and I dont think Pallister was close to the Adams, Campbell, Stam level of top class internationals). Out wide both Pires and Overmars at their peak were much more effective in terms of goals and overall contribution than Giggs ever was. Up front, Henry and Bergkamp being two of the best footballers ever to play the game are some way ahead of what is a second tier front-line including a player who profitted from playing in the top flight at its lowest. I dont even think it is as close as some suggest. For such comparisons to make any sense you have to take each player at their very peak. On that basis with Adams the best defender, Vieira the best midfielder and Henry the best striker its a no-brainer.

bubblechris
April 20, 2005

As Sol didn't play last night after AW said he needs some games does anyone else feel that AW may play Sol & Senderos tomorrow night? What a boost to moral it would be if AW announced that Titi would be playing. I think AW has a few tricks up his sleve for the young pretender Moaninho.

Bernard
April 20, 2005

With Overmars in that side rather than Ljungberg, if I was selcting one team from those 22 players I'd have Schmeichel in goal. At right back I think it's very close; at his peak I think Dixon was a bit better than Neville, but there's not much between them. But Cole is comfortably a better left back than Sylvestre or Irwin, following on from Parkerknoll's point. In central defence it's two out of Adams, Campbell and Stam as I think Pallister's behind those three. I think Adams must be in it, and can understand people deciding to put Stam with him, but Campbell will rightfully have his supporters. Right midfield I'd go for Beckham over Overmars, and left midfield I'd have Pires more than Giggs any day of the week. In central midfield I think it has to be Vieira and Keane, though Petit and Scholes are both very fine candidates. Up front I think just about everyone except Ferguson accepts Henry is miles better than van Nistelrooy, and I don't think there's much at all between Cantona and Bergkamp; both will have their supporters. So the only definites from United are Schmeichel, Beckham and Keane, though there are arguments for Neville, Stam and Cantona. From Arsenal the definites for me are Cole, Adams, Vieira, Pires and Henry, with arguments existing for Dixon, Campbell, and Bergkamp. So I certainly don't think they're far stronger than us.

North Bank Mural
April 20, 2005

Your optimism is great Steve, let's hope it becomes reality.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 20, 2005

I can't believe ferguson would not have Irwin at lb instead of tweety pie. As for Overmaars, did he not play a number of games for Holland on the right, not his preferred position but would do a good job. Harlow, I'm with you on the chelsea game, a 3 or 4 goal tally for us could give their confidence a real shake. Lampard was very close to losing the plot at THOF and if we gave them a battering the odd red card would not surprise me either which would add to the interest for their run in. I also don't think mourinho would want to be in the position of going to Bolton or the mancs needing wins.

steve martin
April 20, 2005

I'm telling you boys, I have a feeling, we Beat Chelsea tomorrow and we will win the league... Everyone has written off Arsenal, but this is football... So Chelsea have not had a real bad patch, what better time than aginst Arsenal, Fulham (Loacal rivals) Charlto (bogey team) and Man Utd, Bolton and Newcastle (a)...

Daz
April 20, 2005

Why is it "just so much stronger"? And Freddie in a dream team ahead of Overmars - like Bernard says - is a bit of a joke. Either of those sides might win on the day. You'd better watch out or Cannon Balls will be accusing you of being a Manc which frankly such surrender-monkey language richly deserves. BTW, Cannon, I have also drunk in the Pillars of Hercules.

david.d
April 20, 2005

been confirmed. we are wearing the home kit for the final

Bernard
April 20, 2005

Hedges, although Pires and Overmars both played predominantly on the left, they also appeared on the right at times, and they would be my two wide midfield players. But with that change, to be honest I disagree that Utd's is clearly stronger. N5er, thanks for those percentages.

Hedges
April 20, 2005

looking at a graphic I saw on the net.. it hails Fergusons dream team. His team was: Schmeichel - Neville, Palister, Stam, Silvestre - Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Giggs - Van Nistelroy, Cantona. I was thinking about Wenger's dream team and came up with this: Seaman - Dixon, Adams, Campbell, Cole - Ljungberg, Paddy, Petit, Pires - Henry, Bergkamp. To me, the Mancs team is just so much stronger and yes Fergy has been there longer, but an Arsenal dream team with Freddie there possibly shows the lack of depth our team has had. Quite sad really for such a powerful and strong club. What you guys think??

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

N5er - I am not saying we have overstretched ourselves but I doubt we would float at this stage otherwise. For a start the market has no real appetite for football shares at the moment. United's value is someway below the proposed Newscorp acquisition value. If Glazer buys it, he will most likely take it off the market. That suggest we will struggle to get the true value. Second, there is a great deal of suspicion of our financial position. At the very least there are significant questions. That must be reflected in the current market value. Even though the price has risen recently, it is a long way off the Granda valuation of a few years back. If as you say, the news is going to get better, any shareholder should want to hold onto their shares to profit from the increase when the true value is established once the good news comes out.

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

Bernard - If she was onside, she wouldn't need to be on the board to help fend off any takeover. And no-one would do it without Dein and Fizman agreeing to it in any event. You would need 50.1% to get overall control but 75% to do everything you wanted and pretty much every buyer will want 100% so as to avoid any nuisance value of other shareholders out there. At 90% you can mop up the rest under law and that is really the level required for an effective takeover. If Bracewell-Smith has been nominated to the board it is probably because she wanted to be.

N5er
April 20, 2005

EEG, your points noted but I'm not convinced that we have over stretched ourselves with AG. On the contrary I think that a successful floatation (for some!) could be achieved because of the strong financial position we are heading into!

N5er
April 20, 2005

from the last accounts and adjusting for the 5% recently issued to Granada. Fiszman 25.2% Dein 14.6% NB-S 15.9% R Carr 4.4% (don't know if his bro has any but under 3% as not disclosed in the a/cs) Don't know offhand what Dein sold to Fiszman but know he held a lot more at one stage! the board basically own 60% Granada 10% and the rest of us plebs 30% G Klass of Herbie Frogg recently sold half his 2000 share interest. Don't know who to!

East End Gooner
April 20, 2005

Didn't Bracewell-Smith get her shares transferred from her husband? Anyway, however it was achieved it is not unusual nor a sign of anything in particular for a 10+ per cent shareholder to take a place on the board. Anyone holding more 10 ten per cent (or a group of people) can requisition EGMs so, providing there is no hostility and the person wants the involvement, it is sensible to have a shareholder of that level onside. Some people just dont want to do it but if they do, it would be surprising to deny them. I reckon if we float, it would be a sign that AG has over-stretched us. The vast majority of football floats have been good for neither the clubs nor the shareholders and I dont see the market having the appetite for it at the moment.

Bernard
April 20, 2005

N5er, if you say that Fiszman, Dein and Bracewell-Smith between them own 55%, so with Granada's 10% that's practically two-thirds of the club, Fiszman and Dein together own 39%. Do you know the breakdown between Fiszman and Dein's holding (Fiszman obviously has the greater share, sold to him by Dein when he was supposedly having some financial difficulties). And do you know what percentage is owned by the Carr family?

N5er
April 19, 2005

Well Edelman won't be retiring on his AFC money. Hes relatively poorly paid compared to Kenyon and he hasn't any shareholding in the club! - bar 25 shares held as nominee for Fiszman. I heard a couple of people were looking to invest but apart from having half missed the boat I don't think they'd manange to buy that many at the moment. I know Granada are looking to offload their 10%. It may be interesting to see what they do as having bought them for 57M they may decide to keep hold of them if they hear whispers of a potential float! It would be one way they may yet get a return on their investment.

Bernard
April 19, 2005

N5er, there was a rumour a few weeks back that Edelman was looking to retire to Switzerland, but it's all gone quiet on that now. Gaz told me there was also a rumour that Bracewell-Smith was brought onto the board to fend off takeover moves by someone (though I'm not sure who).

Andy
April 19, 2005

After an enjoyable run to cardiff at the weekend, I was and still am worried at our lack of heading ability, both in defence and in attack. This seems to be a problem with our second string too, reading the account on here from last nights game. Chelski will use the high ball to Drogba a lot tomorrow in open play, not to mention their set pieces, (relying on this because they don't have the skill to beat us on the floor) and unless we start to compete and win balls in the middle of the pitch and at the back we will struggle I'm afraid.Would've liked to see Quincy running at their defence, but with him playing last night, that 'aint gonna happen.

N5er
April 19, 2005

Bernard thats the short of it yeah. no proof but theres been rumbling noises from the likes of Edelman for a while. Cannon I agree with you wholeheartedly re your concerns about going the PLC route but I'm not convinced these guys won't want to turn a quick profit either. They have seen their 'investments' (?!?) jump 250% to circa 34M (DD) 59M (DF) and 37M (NBM) and with a float that could double again! But lets hope you are right and my concerns are ill founded. Just here keeping 'em honest! ;_)

Bernard
April 19, 2005

N5er, I can see the logic of your reasoning, but I'm still not sure why if they were to do this, Nina Bracewell-Smith was brought onto the board. Are you thinking it was done to get her on-side (as far as they're concerned) with any future decision to have a flotation?

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

N5er, after recent events at Chelsea (Bates), Leeds and now the Glazer take-over saga at OT the dangers of floating on the Stock-Exchange are plain to see,it only ever provides a short term quick-cash flow situation.And always ends in tears.The problem is like now at United that anyone can buy the club and there is little that anyone can do about it. The United supporters will discover this fact for themselves shortly. Glazer lives in America and has never been to Manchester their demo's will not trouble him and if the supporters stop supporting, like some claim, though this was before the present regime hiked up the price of tickets ,which was the same reason that they were opposing the American to stop him from doing it!,then he will asset strip and sell the club off to get his money out and make a profit. I agree with Bernard that the moves being carried out at board level at Highbury are intended to keep the club in the hands of the present Arsenal supporting directors,we don't want or need any Glazer type character taking over at Arsenal,let United,Ferguson and his supporters have him, they deserve each other.

N5er
April 19, 2005

Bernard, I would like to think that you are right! A few things bother me though. If there was ever a time for these guys to cash in big time its approaching pretty soon. Already the share price has risen nearly 250% in the past six months and I reckon they could still be 50% undervalued. I'm betting theres some fairly significant profits (what with the property deals) going to be shown in the next 2 sets of accounts and what with the exposure of moving into Ashburton Grove I reckon the directors might think its time to cash in! Now if its structured so that new money is coming in (so as to pay off the stadium loan for example) then it may not be a bad move but on the whole I'd be disappointed seeing us go down the PLC route. And regarding losing control, yeah they'd no doubt lose some but their position of stewardship over the Club would be fairly well assured anyway I'd bet and we don't know their personal financial circumstances (though we do know Dein has sold some of his once substantial shareholding in the past)

Dormouse
April 19, 2005

The game tomorrow matters much more to Chelski than to us - if they win they will only need 2 points from their last 5 games to win the league. If they lose, they will need another 8 points. The importance of 6 point games really shows at this stage of the season. Come ont the Arsenal!

Bernard
April 19, 2005

N5er, why do you think that though? At the moment it seems her appointment represents a further concentration of power at board level, whereas a full stock market flotation would weaken their control.

david.d
April 19, 2005

so fellow gooners out there. who should be our strikeforce tomorrow and your reasoning for your choice??

N5er
April 19, 2005

I see the Arsenal board recently voted themselves a new member. None other than Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith who owns 16% of the issued shares. The board now controls 60% of the votes between them. In fact 3 members (Dein, Fiszman and Ms Bracewell-Smith) own 55% between them! Now some might argue that by installing a lady onto the board the Arsenal old boys might finally be dragging themselves into the the 21st century. Then again others (like myself) may feel (with just a hint of cynicism) that somehow this show of solidarity (or perhaps even manipulation by Dein and Fiszman) is going to lead to a full stockmarket floatation sometime in the next eighteen months. Thoughts?

Alex
April 19, 2005

Xav T- thanks for your posting, didn't manage to get to the game. Glad someone agrees that Taylors kicking is dreadful. He also nearly let one through his fingers, but it came off the post. Also pleased to hear that Djourou is still looking quality. Really hope Smith turns out to be as good as Wenger seems to think he will be. Remember that Wenger put him ahead of Quincy in the Carling Cup games, and Quincy only came on because Smith got injured.

babu
April 19, 2005

Bernard...just a quick link for you...http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/r_0000001037.asp And a message from my mate, the strange brown and white geezer with the red spots on his head..."Where Are You,Let's Be 'Aving You, Come On !!! " Onto the chelski game, talking with a few of the locals here, they seem to think that it's a foregone conclusion, and We will stuff them. Pity I'm in Kathmandu at the moment, and Mt. Everest and Nepal and knowledge of footy are not really linked big time, but I like the people here, and am convinced that they know, and I'm going with a 2-0 win, to set up a very similar scenario to '89, winning it on the last day on goal difference.!!! Come On You Gooooooooooooners !!!!!!

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

McQuilke,your right cobber,what it was were all the replays that kept flashing up,having seen each one about a dozen times it seemed like he had scored more.The GK had he been fit would surely have saved the first one and the second was a gift from former Manure hatchet-man Butt who passed the ball to him when horseface was loitering around waiting for such a moment unmarked.Which of course he does all of the time. Ferguson and the media seem to have got rather although i guess predictably over-excited over the 'greatest' ones sudden return to 'form'. A bit sterner test is required to establish if that is in fact true. Perhaps David Moyes and Everton will provide a clue tomorrow night?.

babu
April 19, 2005

Bernard...the black forest gateaux and my fave. cake are one and the same...but I and my rich chocolate cake, filled and topped with creme and cherries, were not anywhere near the scene of the crime perpetrated against you the other day.

Bernard
April 19, 2005

babu, that cake sounds like it could have its origins in Germany.

Bernard
April 19, 2005

Babu, just the sight of them and knowing what's gone into them is enough to turn my stomach. Had a massive punch-up with a black forest gateau that was looking at me maliciously the other day, and I think there's a solid argument for the return of capital punishment for cakes with public executions. I'd like to watch a few eccles cakes being hanged, a battenburg blindfolded in front of a firing squad. Great stuff.

Bored
April 19, 2005

Decaf: I've never made a flourless chocolate cakebut I'm told by people in the know (sorry cant reveal my sources) that its not too difficult to make. Ideally they should be so rich and chocolatey (sp?) that even if you wanted to you'd struggle to eat more than a slice. Its definately the Thierry Henry of chocolate cakes.

babu
April 19, 2005

Bernard...and I thought I'd just mention that my favourite cake is a "Schwarzwaeldertorte" with a nice strong cup of coffee, absolute bliss.

mcquilkie
April 19, 2005

Not that it matters, Cannon Balls, but the equine Dutchman only scored twice for United. And Xav T, excellent scouting report. Good work.

babu
April 19, 2005

Bernard...your posts about your cake-hatred seem a bit flimsy as I'm sure you've eaten a few cakes in your time.

Bored
April 19, 2005

TV? I got rid of mine as they wouldn't let me bring it to away grounds....

Xav T
April 19, 2005

American, I was at Stevenage last night for the away reserve game against Spurs. This was a dreadful game (we lost 4-3). However, had we played the whole game as we did the last twenty minutes, we might have got something out of it. What a shame! We had so much purpose and energy in the last minutes, trying to get the equaliser, it really left you wandering what might have happened if we had turned up a bit earlier. Anyway, here are my comments. Taylor, who I usually rate, is definitely not premiership material on this performance. He did manage some brilliant saves, but he looked totally uninterested. His kicking was awful. If it was not going out directly, the ball was invariably collected by the Spurs defenders. None of our players upfront seemed any good at heading the ball down to a partner and we systematically gave it, together with the initiative, away. It took him some time to realise that, but then he decided to switch to short hand passes, obviously with some mixed effect, as some misunderstanding with his defence led to their second goal. On the left was Kerrea Gilbert. Another pacey, gifted player who is still very young and has still obviously quite a lot to learn about positional defending. Much better going forward, he relies on his pace to correct his positional naivety. Hoyte started at right back but moved to the centre in the second half, where he seemed more comfortable. But obviously, by then Spurs did not put as much pressure as in the first half. Last week Skulason did not impress me in midfield. He impressed me even less at the back. Fortunately we had Djourou to complete our back four. He was the only one tall enough to head the ball away, he is massive and seems very strong. With the two “midgets” O’Donnell and Cregg in front of him, he was the only one who could do anything about the incessant waves of crosses and set pieces that were coming our way. He moved to midfield in the second half were he was also very impressive. Big plus of the night for me. At LW we had Ryan Smith. Spent the first hour on another continent and woke up in the last twenty minutes. He became the catalyst for everything good that we did from then on. It’s such a shame that he forgot to set his alarm a bit earlier. At RW was Larson, who keeps on changing positions in the team. I would be really worried if I were him, as he has still not made one of them his. Moved to RB in the second half where he was very reliable with everything he tried. At CM, as I mentioned before, we had Cregg (but someone must confirm he was actually playing, because I saw nothing of him during the 90 minutes – I was convinced we played with 10 men until I saw the team sheet) and O’Donnell (who was substituted in the second half. It would not have been my choice as he was actually making things happen unlike his partner for the day). Birchall came in at RW, he was electric and combined very well with Lupoli. We should have started with him. Upfront, Quincy was his usual self, brilliant. Every time he touched the ball he created the danger. Even if Lupoli scored the first goal, all the work had been done by Quincy. Was replaced by Bendtner in the dying minutes who did not do anything. Lupoli seems to have found his feet again. The way he took his second was brilliant. Definitely not only a poacher! Ran past his markers on the right with some brilliant footwork and struck a bullet in the top corner from a tight angle. He could have scored a hat trick. He was getting ready to take the penalty kick when Smith asked him to take it. He let it go with so much generosity, I was really impressed. Smith was obviously grateful for that, and it’s good to see the camaraderie between them. One word on the referee, though, who was a complete disgrace. He officiated a la Riley at OT for the first half. He was really infuriating. I could not imagine that what we see in the premiership does also happen in the Reserves. How silly! Fortunately, he evened things a bit in the second half, but, for instance, the penalty he gave them was a complete product of his imagination.

Bernard
April 19, 2005

Whether it's true or not I've no idea, but while up here I've been told the reason Butt doesn't wear short sleeved shirts that go high up the arm is that he doesn't want to show that he's got a City tattoo from when he was a kid. He comes from a really rough district of Manchester called Gorton, and I've also been told that if you walk around Gorton, and for that matter Moss Side, with a United shirt on you've got a pretty decent chance of getting stabbed.

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

Styles gave out 3 red-cards in 3 out of the last 5 matches that he officiated in. So we can expect Ferguson to be banging on about our players diving and conning the referee again. Which after the Fake Ronaldo, 'Dying Swan', swoon against Newcastle will surely be greeted with derision in the media,i wouldn't bet on it though. How Fake Ron stayed on is a mystery because after getting the yellow card for diving he committed at least three other bookable offences and should have been off in the first half. The refereing in both semi's was very poor and i doubt that Styles will be any improvement on that. Vieira's had run-in's with the clown in the past so will have to watch his tackles or arguing decisions with him. Only Roy Keane is allowed to do that by decree of the drunken jock. The sight of that oaf walking over and putting his arms around Buttwho was wearing a Newcastle shirt,and had done his best to win the match, albeit for Manchester United, was really sickening, you can only imagine how the Newcastle supporters must have felt. They had 7 first teamers out an injured GK and Manure were playing with twelve men one of them disguised as a Newcastle player!. Butts pass to Horseface which handed him his hat-trick on a silver-platter just about summed it all up, no wonder Ferguson went over to Butt to say well played Nicky!: It's rumoured that Butt replied: "Thank's Gaffer can i get a lift back to Manchester now on the team coach?."

Decaf
April 19, 2005

http://www.ratetheref.co.uk/

Decaf
April 19, 2005

Bernard, you may have a point regarding EEG. Complex psychology underlying racism, etc, etc, animalistic undertones of E*Ging, etc. Although in this instance you may be trying to force two fairly separate matters (E*G on the one hand, and love, hate, fraternity, etc on the other) together. The permutations are endless. I leave you with one final musing: why is the word E*G used so loosely?

Niall
April 19, 2005

To be fair though he was spot on with Ronaldo's dive on Saturday. Maybe he's learnt his lesson though he's a rubbish ref who shouldn't get any big games imo.

tom
April 19, 2005

Just be grateful it's not Riley...you could have a sweep on what minute he'd give the cheat a penalty.

Niall
April 19, 2005

He's card happy isn't he. They should have gone with Poll again, he has done a decent job with his last few Man U Arsenal games.

Daz
April 19, 2005

Isn't he the blind "look-at-me-I'm-on-telly" idiot who reffed the Palace/Norwich game and failed to give two blatant penalties and then gave one that wasn't? Think he's a muppet.

Rob K
April 19, 2005

Apparently Rob Stiles is ref-ing the final. Any views? Any good?

Bernard
April 19, 2005

goonerguru, Arsenal.com says: Wenger expects Thierry Henry to miss Wednesday night's London derby against Chelsea. The French striker has a groin injury and sat out the FA Cup Semi-Final on Saturday. "In my opinion Thierry will miss the Chelsea game," said Wenger. "We will miss him as he's an exceptional player. But we can do more collectively and try to compensate."

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

Bored,haven't you heard there are those new-fangled things out now called TV's!!..

Bernard
April 19, 2005

Decaf, the club I was welcoming Alex to was the one where its members have some difficulty understanding what you're wittering (good word Daz) on about. I think I understand what motivates men to have EEG, but what I don't understand is why you find it so hard to accept why I think someone's racism is flimsy if they have it with a member of whatever ethnic group they are racist towards. Anyway, I'm now off to throw a brick through the window of the local cake shop.

goonerguru
April 19, 2005

Why is every one so convinced that Henry will not play tomorrow,is he definetly out?

Bored
April 19, 2005

...you had to be there........

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

Dave,yes Vieria back to his best and Gilberto also are the two plus's that can go some way toward compensating for the lak of Henry. Who we know always does so well against the blue-scum. Pires also always seems to play well against them. Too many sides give Chelsea too much respect and go out and play for a draw which suits Mourinho because his defense is not put under much pressure, but we saw in the Bayern Munich match that if teams get in among the Chavs defense they cause problems and they get rattled and make mistakes. We have a great record in this fixuture and Chelsea are now in for them unkown teritory,let's see if they can handle the pressure.They did not appear to relish it in the last few league games at the Bridge that i have seen.

david.d
April 19, 2005

very good points american , it is easily forgotton that we played chelsea with fabregas and flamini as our midfield pairing (the two youngsters were absoloutely fantastic) . in fact you reminded me! we now have viera and gilberto back in tandem so that is a bonus but thierry and freddie missing so things balance out. it is a mockery when people say we cant play without thierry. of course we would rather he was playing but we seem to be tighter when he is missing and more compact. i think dennis will start and i think van persie should get the nod to partner him. i love jose to bits and really want him to succeed with us but i dont think he should start tomorrow. we need that unpredictability up front and van persie has that plus the physique and bloodymindedness to unsettle their defence plus he is in good form. if not van persie then aliadiare. he certainly does look bulkier and deserves a few games before the end of the season. i hope this is the last of his injury problems as he looks like he has that bit between his teeth to finally prove himself. he certainly has talent no question about that. its hard to try and predict how it will go because it could go either way. i just hope the boys are up for it and show they mean business. come on arsenal we can do it. i dont fancy losing to this scum and hopefully we wont even come close to doing so. ourselves and utd are fighting for second so it really really annoys me that they get to play chelsea when effectively chelsea would have won the title and have nothing to play for. will mourinho even be bothered to put out his strongest team if the title is already as expected sewn up. so utd canter to a win against chelsea on may 10 while they can take advantage of our game against chelsea which will actually mean something.you see my point? the only good thing i suppose is when chelsea play utd we have everton at home so we should take the 3 points......COME ON ARSENAL!!!!!

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

OMOH,that's true but fortunately i have a low blood pressure to match my tolerance!. Two Spuds supporters are out fishing miles from anywhere on a Saturday afternoon with no radio or mobile phone with them. Suddenly looking at his watch one Spud cries out: "Tottenham have lost again." "How do you know that." asks the other Spud. His pal replies: "Because it's Quarter to five."

old man of hoy
April 19, 2005

A priest was seated next to a cowboy on a flight to Texas. After the plane was airborne, drink orders were taken. The cowboy asked for a whiskey and soda, which was brought and placed before him. Another grey one in London. One more cup of coffee before i go...argue well today - and Cannon Balls - watch that ranting - its no good for the jam tart. The flight attendant then asked the priest if he would like a drink. He replied in disgust, "I'd rather be savagely raped by brazen whores than let liquor touch my lips." The cowboy then handed his drink back to the attendant and said, "Me too. I didn't know we had a choice."

Roast Beef
April 19, 2005

This Pini Zahavi (sp) guy is a real cancer, in the obvious payroll of Abramovich. First Ash, and now Schnoop doggy ferdinand. He is a pimp of the highest order, and represents everything that is rotten about the game. All this latest nasty business makes GG and his bung look like stealing cookies.

Cannon Balls
April 19, 2005

Dear Genever gooner,i would like to say that it is nice to hear from you again,however i once promised myself to never tell a lie.So your having problems with your memory again?. I will do what i can to assist you,if you will promise not to fly into an uncontrolable rage?. Do you recall when the last episode of Vieragate was in full swing?,and you were having one of your short breaks from the Santorium? - probably not, i realize of course that in your sedated and befuddled paronoid delusional mind that trying to remember anything that occured less than ten minutes ago is an hardship, so i will recount for you what occured. Try to concentrate, if you possibly can. It started when i posted a harmless little 'missive' during the summer of 04 lambasting Vieria and his agent, the one who is locked up like yourself in Genever, for the chicanery that they were indulging in with Perez at Real Madrid. You however took offence to this and came on here like a deranged Samurai wrestler enflamed on too much Sake throwing your weight around on the forum. I and others on here were fools Paddy did not want to leave it was all a lie made up by the newspapers we were not true supporters if we doubted this you sanctimonously informed us,grow up was your considered advice. I was at the time engaged in a prolonged and somewhat wearysome exchange of views with another lunatic, non-other than the infamous PTG. Who has we all know changes names like a Chameleon changes it's appearance. So when your crazed rant appeared i working on the mistaken assumption that there could not be two luntics posting at the same time assumed that it was him. He made matters more complicated by actually posting and claiming that he was you!. However i soon realized that indeed there were two looneys at work and your posting on your preference for wearing Chelsea shirts when you fly on Airlines, although a gooner confirmed this fact. I recall that it was something to do with the logo on the Arsenal one that you found 'poxy' and the Chelsea one with the Emirates was more tasteful or some such crazed nonsense. And that you found that you got better service wearing a Chelsea shirt,they treated you with more respect.I admitted my mistake in assuaming you to be PTG, which given the circumstances was easily done. You have obviously forgotten this which of course is understandable. Anyway i hope that i have now filled in some of the blank spots in your past that you have been struggling to recall. Contact me anytime that you feel the need for a helping hand. yours faithfully Cannon.

Bored
April 19, 2005

Roast Beef: I went to Genoa. I remember there was a nice little sandwich place next to the ground and after the game some big Arsenal fan in cape kept asking louder and louder for a cheese roll. It was hilarious because there were all these wonderful Italian pastries in front of him and he just kept bellowing "CHEESE ROLLl" to the bemused Italian girl behind the counter.

Mee
April 19, 2005

American: I remember the 03 FAC match at OT. Giggs missed an absolute sitter and our first goal came by way of a lucky deflection - I think we got lucky in that game and I’m not too sure the result was the consequence of our positional deployments.

Sabir
April 19, 2005

American, to beat Chelsea with or without Henry would be really sweet. Chelsea are flavour of the month and they're made out to be almost unbeatable. So a victory in this game would be extra sweet. I remember the '03 Cup victory. However, they are much stronger now than then. Of course there's a chance of victory but we can't faff about early doors. And we need to be up for it from the start. That is one my main complaints with this team - we start so slowly so often. I was really surprised to see how much bulkier Aliadiere is now. He needs a few games before the end of the season.

Dormouse
April 19, 2005

I agree with American that a win is possible. We're certainly not favourites to win, but we are equally certainly in with a chance. Will certainly be a test for the boys, given the absentees. Hope we go for a win as a draw probably won't be any particular use to us and a win would really increase our confidence. Not sure how we will play after Saturday; I would think that quite a few will be nursing painful bruises & Chelski will have had a good rest since Munich.

AmericanGooner
April 19, 2005

Sabir, I certainly think a win is not beyond the realm of possibility. Right now it may seem that a draw would be welcome because Tite, Freddie and Sol are out. But, remember the '03 FA cup quarter final at OT? Also, we played Chelsea without our midfield last time. I think the average age was probably under 21 or 20 across the midfield. We play tighter and more carefully without Henry. Other players pick up their game. People fail to take note that Blackburn were an inform club, with us being their only loss in a half dozen games. Yet, we dominated them after being kicked to death. We won't be kicked nearly as much by the Chavs and we'll be able to play football once again. Plus, defensively we're looking good enough that even put a faint smile on TA6 himself. No one is talking about our current defensive form. So, if we score first, it won't be so easy for them to answer it. Imaagine beating them with out Henry?!! How demoralizing would that be to them and we must beat them to send a message to the rest of the league that they are not unbeatable.

old man of hoy
April 19, 2005

Time for bed so good night all.Sam and Becky are celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary and Sam says to Becky "So, Becky, I was wondering... have you ever cheated on me?" Becky replies, "Oh Sam, why would you ask such a question now? You don't want to ask that question..." "Yes, Becky, I really want to know. Please..." "Well, all right, three times..." "Three, hmmm, well when were they?" "Well, Sam, remember when you were 35 years old and you really wanted to start the business on your own and no bank would give you a loan... remember? Then one day the bank president himself came over the house and signed the loan papers, no questions asked...? Well..." "Oh, Becky, you did that for me! I respect you even more than ever to do such a thing for me.... So when was number two?" "Well, Sam, remember when you had that last heart attack and you were needing that very tricky operation, and no surgeon wanted to touch you...? Then remember how Dr. DeBakey came all the way up here to do the surgery himself and then you were in good shape again...? Well...." "Oh my G-d!! Becky, you should do such a thing for me to save my life... I couldn't have a more wonderful wife... To do such a thing, oy vay, you must really love me darling... I couldn't be more moved... So, all right then, when was number three?" "Well, Sam, remember a few years ago, when you really wanted to be president of the golf club...? And you were a mere 47 votes short...?"

Roast Beef
April 19, 2005

Anybody go to the Sampdoria game in Genoa ? When the game finished, you walk through the streets and there are these amazing little stores selling pastries, home made pizza you, name it. No grey mystery meat burgers floating in tepid water over there.

Genčve Gooner
April 19, 2005

Balls, I give up. I salute you. it's a deal. An amamzing memory. Could you tell me when you 'admitted your mistake'?

old man of hoy
April 19, 2005

Lets try some easier ones then.How can you spot the blind guy at the nudist colony?It's not hard.Who is the most popular guy at the nudist colony?The guy who can carry a cup of coffee in each hand and a dozen donuts.Who is the most popular girl at the nudist colony?She is the one who can eat the last donut! Mee whatever you do don't ask the Mrs or your teenager what the last one is about.

old man of hoy
April 19, 2005

Just had a look at Styles record. Since 2001/2 he has reffed Arsenal in 6 matches and given us 8 yellows and one red (Keown v Derby). In the same period he has reffed United 11 times and given them 11 yellows - 4 to Keane, 3 of them this season! This may be a man who is not so easily swayed by reputations. Decaf - it is a silly penis -length joke - try this one for size. A new young monk arrives at the monastery and as with all new monks he is assigned to help the other monks in copying the old canons and laws of the church by hand.He notices, however, that all of the monks are copying from copies, not from the original manuscript.So, the new monk goes to the head abbot to question this, pointing out that if someone made even a small error in the first copy, it would never be picked up.In fact, that error would be continued in all of the subsequent copies.The head monk, says, "We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son."So, he goes down into the dark caves underneath the monastery where the original manuscript is held as archives in a locked vault that hasn't been opened for hundreds of years.Hours go by and nobody sees the old abbot.So, the young monk gets worried and goes downstairs to look for him.He sees him banging his head against the wall, and wailing, "We forgot the "R", we forgot the "R" His forehead is all bloody and bruised and he is crying uncontrollably.The young monk asks the old abbot, "What's wrong, father?"With a choking voice, the old abbot replies, "The word is celebrate." "The word is celebrate."

Trimmed - Previous posts archived