Supporters Forum
Rob K - March 16, 2005

Dear Forum - I am very sad to have to say that my wonderful cousin Steve Gleiber, host of the forum, passed away. Steve was only 41 years old but has finally lost his battle with cancer. He is survived by his loving family Jutka, Janche & Susie and his wonderful partner Angela. 

He was a big guy with a bigger heart. Even though he lived in Sydney, and we, his maternal family, live in the UK he was always a large part of all of our lives and we loved him dearly. He loved his family & partner, life & Arsenal passionately. I miss him already...

Note: A memorial page has been created HERE

Adverts/services (including ripping off genuine supporters with astronomically priced ticket offers) posted to this forum will be removed IMMEDIATELY. The same goes for abusive messages. 
If you have a product or service that you feel is relevant to Arsenal supporters then contact us and we can discuss it. 
DON'T post it here it. 
If you want to post rumours, then use the Rumours Page and not this one. This is NOT a joke/windup page.

POSTINGS:

Gunfire
June 23, 2005
In terms of supporters it is Celtic , Arsenal and the Huns a distant 3rd. Recently on eof their won directors stated that they were primarily a West of Scotland team while celtic had a global audience.


Bernard
June 23, 2005
Must admit I'd be surprised if Rangers have more fans worldwide than Arsenal.


Västerås Gooner
June 23, 2005
Steve/o Coldiz//I can only speak for Scandinavia but I can assure You that Arsenal have far more supporters here than any of the old Firm. Celtic, of course, have quite a few fans because of Henrik Larsson but there can´t be to many supporting Rangers here. The same few that supports Chelsea he he. Blues brothers.I know that the Arsenal Sweden Supporters Club got over 2 000 members (I´m not one of them unfortunately) and I´ts fast growing.Well, this is the biggest holiday in Sweden, midsummer, and everybody gets pissed, i mean really pissed, and f**k in the woods so i´m of to get me my moonshine now.


kiwipete
June 23, 2005
Got to agree with you Harlow ..the ocassional blue is quite amusing but now Steve Gleiber's [ RIP big fella ] Arsenal forum bears more resemblance to Jerry Springer.


Västerås Gooner
June 23, 2005
Harlow, works fine.Is that Your own photos of AG?


Harlow Steve
June 23, 2005
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven.martin9/index.htm Try this lads for me, i'm trying to start a web page, just seeing if it's working


Stevec/o Coldiz
June 23, 2005
Well done American Gooner for keeping the site a semblance of what its meant for,almost shamefull that this task has befallen to a yank.SWP or Helb.no contest,Helb by a mile,but if AW decies that the role of DB cannot be replaced and we must change formation with wing play,then SWP nd owen would do nicely.Has anyone got the new stripe yet? and one last question.Who has the most suporters,in order sequence please,Arsenal,Celtic or Rangers.Was talking to a couple of Jocks last night and we all agreed on Celtic,Rangers Arsenal,but this morning I wondered if Arsenal might worldwide have more supporters than Rangers ?????


Nico
June 23, 2005
david.d, thank you for those nice comments; I'm sure, by the way, that Arsene will be doing something, but I was trying to make a joke out of the deathly silence enveloping our transfer movements at the mo. Daz, good luck with the babe and the wife, mate (I know a little about the things you're referring to - we nearly lost one or two, and the wife was seriously ill on one occasion). Must run, now, got a plane to catch.


Daz
June 23, 2005
Actually as insomnia seems to be kicking in I should say (and tried to yesterday) that I agree that this has become ridiculous. Sure I won't be around over next weeks so thanks for good wishes, sure everything will be fine and my final words to you, chocolate, are to apologise (again) if anything I said caused you any real offence or distress. I'm not really bothered if you see that as submission or whether you care or not as I would be sorry if I'd genuinely hurt anybody's feelings. It is - as we are so often reminded a football forum - and this current level of insult-swapping is degrading for all concerned as well as very boring so hopefully it will now settle down. Actually my very last comment is that sophism is philosophy.


Bernard
June 23, 2005
Mee, ok I'll try not to mention the hear/here thing so much. I hadn't appreciated that it caused so much offence - it was only meant lightheartedly.


Young Gunner
June 23, 2005
At last things are heating up on the Hleb/SWP front. Nobody is sure which signing is the suspected smokescreen. SWP is undoubtedly more costly but he's english and that will contribute to our english player quota. I hope AW wont stall too much on choosing between the two else he might even lose both...for all you know, we might even end up with both which would be great considering RP is declining so Hleb can slot on the left. How's the Baptista rumour..more news after the Confeds?


Pedro
June 23, 2005
The way I look at it is I would love SWP at Arsenal but the facts are when you compare him to someone like Hleb things just dont add up, both players are around the same age, play in roughly the same position, SWP scores more but creates less so I would say although different in some ways they should hold vaguley the same value. But where we should be able to get Hleb for £8-10m we are talking double that for SWP, I would rather we signed the likes of say Baptista and Hleb than just SWP on his own.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
I meant Mourinho thinks himself to be the mutts in that he can pick up and coming players.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
What do Chelsea do with Duff? From what I understand Mourinho likes Robben on the right so he can cut in on his preferred foot. Also, it would appear that Mourinho doesn't attribute Drogba's woes to a lack of service but to Drogba not being good enough. They also have Joe Cole who can play right attacking midfield if Robben is out and he's been playing better and better. Mourinho thinks he's the 'mutts' as you all say. All reports have suggested that Mourinho is concerned primarily about 2 positions. Left back and striker. If he can get another center mid, fine. Even a right midfielder but its not his biggest concern, he's sorted at those positions. Furthermore, Kenyon has been trying to upset any transfer targets that we seem to be after. SWP being at Highbury is an easy one to guess. Its not the first time Kenyon has shown an interest in a player that seems to be a target for us or ManYoo who they don't have a need for (Reyes...Robben...obi Mikel...Hleb...etc.). The reason I don't think they'll buy him is the price tag. They'll pay for a top notch striker because they have to. But they are trying to reign in the costs a bit to meet their 'stalin-esque' 5 year plan. Mourinho's ego wants to think that the can find diamonds in the rough like Wenger can as well. 20 million is too dear for Kenyon to spend just to put a fly in our ointment. They'll bid to make it interesting possibly, but my guess is they won't bother. We'd have heard much more. With the way the press is in England if they were serious about SWP we'd have heard much more.


Thanks Pat Rice
June 23, 2005
Damn, too many clues. Lets examine the evidence. AW is a fan (isn’t he always of opposing players), Bore Rhino wants a right footed right winger and Robben to play on the left (he hasn’t actually told me himself, I am giving him the benefit of my in depth tactical knowledge – well actually the next door neighbours cat can see that). There is not enough ammo coming into dreadful Drogba and all Sky people tell us he is very good in the air. I think he is better on the ground, normally rolling around. So sad to see a grown man scream when he kicked a little bit. SWP to Chelski because Citeh will accept the highest bid and SWP will want to help the club out of their financial crisis (same old verbal garbage, nothing to do with wages). I don’t especially rate him but am willing to see if AW can turn another rough diamond into - ahem – a world class player ### Anyway SWP is overrated at anything above £8M ish. For £15-£20M or so I’d rather take a chance on Robinho, its worth it just to poke RM in the eye with a sharp stick


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
I would think that if we made a move for SWP he'd come for far less money than Chelsea would offer him. I don't think Chelsea want him. I really don't. They have Duff and Robben on the wings and they are successful with that. Robben seems injury prone and that has to be a worry for them but I don't see them going for SWP if for any reason to stop us from getting him. We are his childhood club. As much as SWP tries to reassure 'citeh' fans that he's a loyal Citizen. The chance to play for your childhood club and for that club to be as good as we are, will win out in any bidding war with Chelsea. Citeh may want the money that Chelsea offers but SWP will want us. All Chelsea can offer him is money, he won't go poor playing for us that's for sure. He'll be too expensive I imagine. If he's in the 15-20 mil range. We'll have to offer players with the money and it will have to be in installments and incentives/appearances be made part of it like the Reyes deal. I don't see us offering more than 9 or 10 mil cash plus the rest over time. **** Word is Fergie going to the Glazers for more cash. For years he's enjoyed a fairly large transfer kitty, especially when compared to the rest of us in the league. It will be interesting to see if the Glazers hold the line. Even though they said they ate up their transfer budget buying Rooney, we all know the old ManYoo board would have succumbed to Fergie's pleas and given him what he wanted. Fergie seems to have found it hard to have to buy smart like we have been doing for 8 years. They don't know how. van der Sar is a good signing but Park? I am skeptical of that signing.


Bernard
June 23, 2005
TPR, you say: "No names but revolves around Pires/SWP and will please Niall". You're not saying Wright-Phillips is going to Chelsea and we're getting Duff to replace Pires are you?


Thanks Pat Rice
June 23, 2005
Dip in read a few posts, fall asleep. ### It’s the silly season, no transfers so stories made up – Guti £12M, I mean (but I do like the cut of his jib – at £2M). The best meals take a while to cook ### Judge Judy what are you doing here? “GET A LIFE”. The Forum is Real, the Arsenal are Real and Madrid well – there just liberty takers. ###Anyway talking of Real, I’m in mourning - Riquelme has signed for RealVilla, £4.5M. What a bargain. Better (much much) than Hleb with DB10 vision, half the price. Ah well one last sneaky feeling of a signing for me. No names but revolves around Pires/SWP and will please Niall ### We were on Sky sports tonight about the kit, stadium tour with every purchase. Then a very interesting potted history of the shirt. Thank you Sky Sports for that 10 second history lesson – invaluable. Perhaps the only history lesson that would be shorter is the Chelski trophy winning dynasty. ### Good luck tomorrow Daz


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
any of you guys look at goonernews.com? i check it every few hours recently in vain hope. maybe ill go live in a cave for a month so i can come back to hear the happy news that we have signed somebody. well actually im just going to go asleep for eight hours and wake up to that news anyway hopefully. not likely. well, goodnight.


Bored
June 23, 2005
Sorry to hear that Daz. I hope everything goes well for you all tomorrow.


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
well i hope so anyway. he definately wants to come to us if we believe reports. i guess if he was keen on chelsea he would probably be there now as they have expressed their interest in the past. so i guess his strong desire to plays for us, if that indeed is the case, is a sticking point. i wonder if he is holding out for us to make a bid, if we dont i suppose he will be wearing blue soon enough. i cant recall but has any foreign club shown interest in him or is it just us and the chavs?


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
Last post were not my words. I copied and pasted it as well. Sorry, once again no link. A friend e mailed it to me.


Mee
June 23, 2005
Dublin: Do you think SWP will be able to resist Chelsea quadrupling his wages? Of all the summer targets this is the one I hope becomes reality.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
Arsenal will be among the eight top seeds when the draw is made for the Group Stage of the Champions League. UEFA have confirmed the club coefficients which are used to calculate each side's seeding in Europe's elite club competition, and Arsenal's record in the competition puts them among the elite.Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan and Bayern Munich are also among the top seeds. Liverpool, Manchester United and Internazionale will join that group if they qualify for the Group Stage.Chelsea and Everton - if the latter come through the qualifying round - are not among the top seeds. However, Arsenal cannot face another English club in the Group Stage of the competition.


Mee
June 23, 2005
There is a direct correlation between transfer activity or lack of it and the health of this forum. A few weeks back every new post delivered some fantastic and totally improbable news of players fighting amongst themselves to wear the shirt in front of the photographers at Colney. Following that, Rachel Unitt, Karen Carney and the women kept us occupied. We now have complete silence, so the petty squabbles begin anew. I shall restrict my posts in future to football related matters.


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
not that those signings are news to anyone, just that compared to us... well, lets hope wenger is working on something. weird that the mancs are so uncompetitive in the transfer market now, those are not really the signings you would have expected from them in the past. once again, if only the chavs hadnt come along to spoil the party.


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
american, too true, not my interpretation of events but from other arsenal sites, just drawing attention to the level of silliness brought about by the transfer period, it all gets too complicated. well, looks like chelsea have got del horno, utd have van der saar and park, the latter of which looked pretty exciting this year, very quick and energetic. as others have said, van der saar signing does not look so good for the mancs, seems desperate. such a pity that it is chelsea who are reaping the rewards of their demise and not us! would have been a golden era for us, starting with back to back titles, oh if only. btw, how many players have valencia signed this summer and how many are they trying to buy. already got edu, regueiro, david villa at least and want pires and sagnol. now what would be great would be if adriano stayed at inter, gilardino went to milan, jaoquin and robinho went to madrid and baptista and swp came to us. notice that all these are related to chelsea and me hoping they cant sign these players. they have truly become too big for their boots when they think they can sign any of these players, hopefully swp will refuse to move to chelsea at any price and city will be forced sell to us at a lower one. that would be so uplifting in these times.


Cannon Balls
June 23, 2005
I see that your talking to yourself again Gungunge ....ing pathetic really! And trying to disguise it with out using capital letters! Come on now ,you cant be serious! Basket case number one!


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
thanks for the recognition gunfire. agreed on both counts, we need baptista and the fact that american is an example to us all in terms of sticking to the football.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
Dublin Gooner, Guti mentioned as a club he'd like to play for. I don't think that makes him a target. Half of Europe would like to play for us. I only take the transfer rumors that we seem to initiate as the only legit ones or ones that may have some teeth to them. The only transfer that seems legit and will probably happen is Hleb. We always lowball the first bid as we did with Reyes and if we want the guy bad enough we sweaten the pot a little. Until another club says we have made a formal bid, I wouldn't take any links too serious.


Mee
June 23, 2005
Chocolate: I apologise if you feel that some of my recent posts have insulted you. That was not my intention. In fact, quite the opposite. I was merely attempting to mediate in the argument. On re-reading my posts I have to acknowledge that in order to emphasise my point, I made assumptions about you that could not be substantiated and for this I apologise unreservedly. Bernard: Would it be possible for you to post without mentioning the fact that I once used the words ‘hear/hear’ incorrectly?


Gunfire
June 23, 2005
Daz I have 2 kids 3 and 11 months and if they had a s much a s cut finger the last place i'd be is onhere. Don't get me wrong any man who has an offspring is very very lucky but I've seen that kind of info used by twisted minds. dublin gooner, no mate keep the football coming that;s whatwe're here for. Big up to American. he sia real true follower of goonerdom. I'd still prefer Baptista over anyone else.


Judge JohnD
June 23, 2005
Is it just Al or me as well?


Cannon Balls
June 23, 2005
Gungunge,oh it's only 2005 now! Nah,really??? But er..still not answering the question i asked you squire are you????????? And i guess that you never will right??? So your just a waste of time and space right??? I am not bothering with your inane attention seeking antics anymore ( i expect that you will re-post this for some reason known only to your stupid self!) with some crazed added remark! Anyway Patrick O'Gungunge buzz off and enlighten someone else with your insightful knowledge okay? You are a very silly man! Bye. Oick!!!!!


Bernard
June 23, 2005
Daz, I hope I have never given the impression that Chcolate's posts about your sexuality etc were acceptable in any way shape or form. That was not my intention at all. And please accept my very best wishes for your partner and child's health.


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
when anybody else posts here does it just feel like you are talking to yourselves? well, here is another note to self i guess.


Niall
June 23, 2005
Offending posts removed. I thought Rog had removed them all yesterday, it appears some were missed. Hope all goes well tomorrow with the baby and your partner Daz. Regards, Niall.


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
all this transfer talk is gettin ridiculous, weve been linked with about fifty players. some great, robinho, baptista, even gilardino for a short while, others like asthon (worrying), and guti (for about 12million!!!, huh?). is guti a a move to force the hleb move, which in turn is a smokescreen for swp as some seem to be suggesting on various sites? that is way to complicated. lets just sit back watch the season review and relax. as someone said earlier, le boss said we had loads of cash, then we dont need to strengthen, now who nows, but that just before he signed reyes he said we werent in the market. yeah, it can be infuriating being linked with so many great players but with the feeling that we will end up with none of em. oh well, better than supporting most other clubs, especially the chavs despite all their recent success.


Darren
June 23, 2005
Daz - Best of luck with everything over the next few days for you and your partner. I can only imagine that this must be the most exciting, yet currently most worrying of times. I hope it all goes as it should.


dublin gooner
June 23, 2005
yesterday i stated my concern for the nature of some of the posting on here. still havent figured out all the alliances/emnities, who ignores who etc, but actually alot of the arguments are often pretty amusing. still cant tell if some people on here are just pissed off at work or are kids going through a particularly painful puberty or something, guess we'll never know---- Rob K, where did you get that info on RVP?----eskimo, that post on riquelme was great, very true and very humourous description of him at barcelona.


Daz
June 23, 2005
Thanks Bromley. And thanks earlier to those who had the common sense to call chocolate out. Here's a serious post. It is utterly true that I have had an unhealthy obsession with chocolate and his posts. So what? He has set himself up for that by the nature of his posts. I have at all times ridiculed what he said, or the way he said it or I have mocked a fantasy chocolate figure. That's the nature of an internet forum. Chocolate could go on attacking and misrepresenting my posts as much as he liked - I've opened myself up to that and not only could I take it, I would have relished it. I have, however, NEVER attacked something that I know or suspect to be really true about him. There are certain things that I know to be true about a number of posters - I know Niall is Irish and I would never say - I hope that the UDA firebomb your house and put a bullet in the head of your partner. I would never have laughed at anybodys genuine misfortune - quite the opposite. And make no mistake that is what chocolate has done. Taken jokey references to my divorce, or my forthcoming kid (he based it on the fact that I said I had put a cot up at the weekend for E*Gs sake) and made the nastiest comments possible. After what? A row about sophism for E*Gs sake when he himself had come in all guns blazing. So to those - and especially you, Bernard who was so pious about references to his own kids - who think that is somehow justifiable because I "bullied" him, I think you should take a long hard look at yourselves. It doesn't matter how much or how often I ridiculed his posts - that kind of response is utterly unacceptable. Frankly his homophobic posts should have been deleted and had they been repeated he should have been warned that the IP address had been noted as somebody who made a far less serious posting had done to them. I'm genuinely disgusted by the equivocal tone of people on this topic. As it is, I'm going into hospital tomorrow hopefully to see my son born well and healthy so in the end, none of this matters a toss.


AmericanGooner
Slavia Prague Slag LFC CL Inclusion
June 23, 2005
Once again, apologize for no link. I copied and pasted this.:Slavia Prague have complained to Uefa after Liverpool's late entry into next season's Champions League means the Czech side have lost their seeding. Holders Liverpool's participation could now see Slavia drawn against the likes of Manchester United in the third preliminary round. Uefa director of communications William Gaillard said: "We have had preliminary discussions and are seeking a solution. "We don't know what they want. They have only mentioned the seeding issue." He added: "They have not spoken about our decision allowing Liverpool back in to the competition." Gaillard also said a Slovakian team would lose their seeding because of Liverpool's entry. However, it is not yet known which side will be affected as their season has not finished. Slavia finished second in the Czech championship last season behind city rivals Sparta Prague. Liverpool finished outside the top four in the English Premiership and therefore were not automatically allowed to enter this year's competition despite winning the Champions League final. But a change in the rules meant they were given a place and all winners will now be allowed to defend their title.


bromley
June 23, 2005
Daz, I'm sorry to hear about your partner & baby - my partner is carrying a v.small gooner as well and I sincerely wish all of you all the best.


Daz
June 23, 2005
But you can interperet any further silence as proof that your "tactics" or "strategy" have worked a treat. Just be careful of the smell that remains attached to you when you "go nuclear" you miserable little specimen.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
Niall, I've long ignored posts like the one Decaf made in response to my RvP story. You tend to see a pattern regarding such types. They rarely put themselves out there with any kind of original footie analysis because they can't risk being wrong and having people do the same to them that they do to others. Wrong or right, some of us at least have the courage to share our views at the risk of riducule, while some of us watch the world go by and comment from the safety of the sidelines.


Daz
June 23, 2005
Just so you know, chocolate, I've kept quiet because I've been sitting in Homerton hopsital watching them monitor my baby's heartbeat which was too high for several hours. Tomorrow my partner's having major surgery. Any E*G who can't see the difference between "distorting" your ridiculous and infantile posts and making references like yours to a baby due to be born in a few days because they feel sorry for themselves about "bullying" on an internet is worth jackshit.


david.d
June 23, 2005
nico i just read your post and indeed it is a brilliant post. thats what makes this forum , great posters like yourself all devoted to the arsenal family.


AmericanGooner
sorry..wishful thinking it would be RvN
June 23, 2005
it should be RvP of course! Talk about Freudian slips.


david.d
June 23, 2005
so how true is this story on arsenal mania???----Arsenal bid for SWP holding up Hleb deal Jonathan Chong Wednesday, 22 June 2005 12:34 PMLONDON (ARSENAL-MANIA) - Arsenal-Mania has learned that an offer for Manchester City's Shaun Wright-Phillips is currently holding up the Hleb deal.With both players playing in the same position [on the right of midfield], it seems that Arsenal want to wait to see if Manchester City are willing to sell.Whilst the bid from Arsenal is considerable, there has also been an offer from Chelsea, and Manchester City are considering both bids.For his part, Shaun Wright-Phillips has indicated to the City board that he wants a move to Arsenal.WE will update this as we learn more


babu
June 23, 2005
I see it, but a few days ago all my posts vanished. But I know why, and having read the last few days posts I see that non-footy related topics seem a little strange, and pointless.So only footy now.


Niall
June 23, 2005
Do you see one there Babu? You were never stopped as far as I know.


babu
June 23, 2005
Niall, just want to ask , can I post again ??


Niall
June 23, 2005
Decaf - very good but you will not rile me with cheap shots like that. Suffice to say, it didn't take you long to start crying when JamesLT let loose on you. Why not practice what you preach? Now goodnight mate.


TOP GUN
June 23, 2005
Dont need to nescaf your mum swallows every last drop.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
Well keep the tissues handy there, Top Hat.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
And finally, Niall, you keep making obnoxious references to Chocolate having got the better of people, yet you give no specifics. Your admiration for the little runt seems to cun to imitating his methods now. No doubt will you now either a) ignore what you don't like or b) fail to exercise volume control or c) something else. No doubt Choc would love to have your power of deletion and looking up past identity indescretions. He can only dream.


babu
June 23, 2005
Baptista has just come on for Brazil, and seeing as we`re linked with him as well I am sure that the signings will come after the confederations cup. AW is supposedly in Germany, so it looks good for Hleb, and Baptista does look strong and powerful. He would be plan B, or plan C, as we already have plan B sorted. Edu is coming on, why did he have to go ?? So sad, but I guess he has a life outside of footy, so respect and good luck.


TOP GUN
THE NESCAFE GOLDEN HANDSHAKE
June 23, 2005
nice post nescaf im actually doing one of your golden handshakes as we speak


Decaf
June 23, 2005
Toppy? And your squabble with me is very mature? I am sure there must be a forum for Lazenby fans somewhere. Beat it.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
Not that Judge Deju "do what I say not what I vu" O'Sophist isn't looking a bit silly. But he isn't the only one.


TOP GUN
June 23, 2005
PS your a big girl who wets the bed ha ha!


Niall
Hleb
June 23, 2005
Promising news from Trappatoni: New Stuttgart boss Giovanni Trapattoni says he is prepared to let Arsenal target Alexander Hleb leave the Gottlieb-Daimler-Stadion.The talented Belarus playmaker is reportedly looking to follow Germany international Kevin Kuranyi out of Stuttgart.Arsenal have reportedly had an opening offer of £5 million rejected by the Bundesliga side, while London rivals Chelsea are monitoring the situation.Stuttgart purportedly want €20 million (£13.3 million) for the player, who has been on Arsene Wenger's shopping list for some time.Wenger's Stuttgart counterpart Trapattoni has now admitted that he does not necessarily want to keep a player that is unhappy at the club."Basically it is not a good idea to keep a player who wants to leave," said Trapattoni."The group is more important than any individual player but I still think that Alex would fit in well in our team next season."It's my job to consolidate the team and integrate new youngsters."Trapattoni also expressed his belief that Stuttgart would find an adequate replacement for Kuranyi, who joined Schalke last week.He added: "We are on the lookout for a decent replacement and I'm sure we'll find one."


TOP GUN
June 23, 2005
actually nescaf i'd rather watch a james bond film with george lazenby in it than get involved in a child like squabble.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
Gee, American, I guess we should believe all that VP and his lawyer say now. After all, the previously little bit of dishonesty was just a small boyish fib wasn't it? Naturally he would lie about cheating on his wife but he would NEVER lie if he committed a crime. Great lawyerly and American pshyc 101 stuff too. Keep it rolling.


Niall
June 23, 2005
Actually Decaf, I haven't got any. I did once post as Burp but was caught out and repented. Any others I made clear right away were me. That is all.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
I eagerly await a list of all of your aliases, Niall. Wonderful feeling exercising power, isn't it? Funny thing about all of John D's aliases--none of them is impersonation. All are jokes.


Niall
June 23, 2005
Whatever Decaf!!


TOP GUN
June 23, 2005
cant believe ive just read a football related post!! big up yourself American Gooner!!


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
Seems like a DNA test will prove they had sex. RvP lied about having sex and that is a problem. But he's married and most married men would deny it as well. Even a USA President might..haha..."..I did not have sex with that woman Monica Lewinsky..." Anyway, one would imagine there would be bruising and the sort. My guess is she was upset that they treated her like used goods and the prank (hidden clothes) was the last straw. She cried rape to get even. End of. The sad thing is this takes away from the legitimate cases. I have a female friend who was raped in college and I told her the story and she clenches her fist in anger over women who do that to get even because each time its made public it taints her story a bit.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
Top Gun, I for one find the off season rumour mongering (read preening and showing off 'connections) deadly, deadly dull after about two days. This forum is all about petty squabbles. If you really have read EEG's and Choco's exchanges, and really don't find it a bit entertaining, I feel a bit sorry for you. However, I suspect that the real reason is that you wish you could do it!


babu
June 23, 2005
Robinho has just set up ronaldinho for Nr. 2. I would say he`s not bad, but like bromley says, 16-20 million, hmmm !!!American...I think we all want signings but we have to wait until Robinho`s gone, then all the others will fall into place. I don`t think that TH14 and JAR and Robinho and RvP would work, so I`m hoping for Torres, and Niemi and Hleb. Come On You Gooners !!! Robin Is Innocent !!


Niall
June 23, 2005
Forgot the a John, I was laughing so much. That would be aliases.


Niall
June 23, 2005
Ok quick IP check revels "Judge" JohnD that you are the following people: Judge John D; Deja Vu; lex e cographer; Miss Lucy; Phil O'Sofa; Sean O'Phist; Sylvain De Lyon; Sylvain (boy your brave John) u.moron (apt); Al Murray; Albert Knox; dsl; - quite a collection of alises John. Well done.


Judge Judy
June 23, 2005
That should be the b next to the n. We just can't stop laughing.


AmericanGooner
Article About RvN
June 23, 2005
Sorry about the length. I copied and pasted from another site. I don't have a link. Maybe Rotterdam or others can find it: RAPE-CLAIM ARSENAL STAR: I WAS IN HOTEL ROOM WITH THAT GIRLBUT VAN PERSIE DENIES HE ATTACKED HERFrom Alexandra Williams In RotterdamPREMIERSHIP footballer Robin van Persie has admitted checking into a hotel room with the former stripper who claims he raped her.The Tulip Inn in Rotterdam is 200 yards from the 21-year-old Dutch star's penthouse flat, where his wife was sleeping at the time.As Arsenal's Van Persie stayed in custody in the city yesterday, his lawyer Abraham Moszkowicz said of his accuser's story: "He is not denying he was in the hotel room. He is denying he raped her."Van Persie, who earns £25,000 a week, picked up the woman, known as Sandra, in a raunchy nightclub, it is said. The pair, together with two of the footballer's pals, then went to the £70-a-night Tulip.The woman claims she was raped in a bathroom there. Lawyer Moszkowicz says she complained about the behaviour of van Persie and his pals to the night porter and chef as she left the hotel early last Sunday - but did not allege rape. She is said to have claimed that one of the three hid her clothes - believed to be a black mini-skirt and shirt. Mr Moszkowicz said: "What I can tell you is that she met two people after what she is calling the rape, but she did not tell them that my client raped her or even mentioned the name of my client. "She was only saying that someone had played a kind of joke on her and stole her clothes. She was upset and not amused. "If someone is raped and you talk immediately after with two persons, you would ask for the police to be called but she did not do this. "She was only upset because of the fact that someone took her clothes." On the sex allegation, Mr Moszkowicz added: "She stated she was raped and stated how it was done. I cannot tell you any details." Pressed on a previous statement that Van Persie had "no sexual contact" with the woman, Mr Moszkowicz said: "I cannot comment about whether he had sex or not." He refused to be drawn on whether it was the woman who removed her clothes or one of the men. He said the ex-stripper, in her early 20s and part Dutch, part Surinamese, did not receive a payment from the men. Asked why his client went to the hotel with the woman, Mr Moszkowicz said: "Maybe to play football." Van Persie's legal team has set out to discredit the girl, saying she has a dubious reputation. When asked to describe her, Mr Moszkowicz said: "She's not the Queen of England." Last Saturday Van Persie - signed by Arsenal from Feyenoord of Rotterdam - and his pals visited dance cafe Hyper Hyper and went on to the Baja Beach Club, whose waitresses wear bikinis. They met Sandra there, then checked in to the Tulip. Van Persie's Moroccan wife Bouchra, 22, a student, is said to be standing by him. They married a year ago. A judge ruled yesterday that Van Persie stay locked up for another week in Nord Singel jail - over-crowded and more than 100 years old - while DNA tests are processed.


Judge Judy
June 23, 2005
Leave me out of this Niall: but don't think I don't recognize a craven cop-out when I see one. JudgeJohnD is pissing himself and EEG is complaining about the unlawful behaviour in chamners.


Decaf
June 23, 2005
Firstly this 'bullying' thing is very strange. I never heard Choco surrender or cry out for mercy or even concede that he was anything less than about 4-0 to the good. Secondly, behold, Choc, THEY are doing it now. This 'we' thing. Incontinence is catching. Rob K says: "We try to moderate the forum with a lenient eye ... "--but to err is human right? Like my post that was deleted for including the word 'work'? 9(albeit with asterisks). Niall, you are quite right in thinking that my games with choccy are for laughs and letting off steam. And despite my 'official position' choccy does score some great hits and has me in stitches almost continually. You should ask yourself whether you are applying the same attitude. Everyone who says anything against you is 'ridiculous' or worse. And its your loss if you close yourself off from funny exchanges like the sophistry one, or not to see the funny side with Cannon. Not so long ago you were a pretty dab hand at parodies too.


TOP GUN
tiredof readingnonsense.co.uk
June 23, 2005
Never read so much rubbish on a forum in my life, Chocolate Gooner & east end gooner should both be ashamed of themselves for their squabling. To be honest guys i dont think anybody actually reads your comments they just skip past and read the arsenal related posts. In the meantime the arse have been linked with swp for the first time this summer. i personally would sacrifice our entire summer transfer budget to get this player, he would add a whole different dimension to our play. Come on you reeeeeedss


Judge JohnD
June 23, 2005
Ah, FishBar - You must have missed my post on Dennis Compton and Arthur Milton. Too busy posting definitions on sophism I'll be bound - how come you got away scot-free with the reintroduction of sophism, a bit of help from Bernard admittedly? Since those days of the laced up, orange ball, leather studs with three nails that you hammered into ankle high boots and Reader's Digest used as shin pads I've sort of lost it somewhere along the way. As I'm sure you must have gathered from chocolate's mates……..Bernard: for the first time you had me concerned there. I've always thought you must be a bit of an expert on weird - see a lot of it at your conferences? Then I realised you were talking about something completely different, although, as usual, I'm not sure what it is.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
Rob K, I do want signings. I'd love to see SWP and Hleb looks good as well. I'm just saying that the worry over signing seems like its the excuse why we didn't win the title. As if we lacked certain types of players. We went a couple months this past spring conceding 1 goal, and no Henry and almost all wins. That is the quality I'm talking about. **** Bromley, that player is Borgetti, plays for Pachuca in the Mexican league I believe. Good player. On the downside of his career. I think he's about 32. He's a handful though, very tough. **** Anyone know if Henry is still injured? Also, when does France play next and if Henry is scheduled to be on the side? **** I doubt we get Guti. The link is from him wanting to leave Real Madrid and saying he likes the way we play. As far as I can tell, we have made no inquiries. There are tons of players, even good ones that would like to play for us or admire our style. Their publicly saying so, doesn't mean we'll buy them. So I doubt very seriously we buy him. He's an admirer of us and that's it.


Niall
June 23, 2005
No offence Judge Judy (would that be ok with you) but I'm not getting drawn into your clear obsessional behaviour any further. If you didn't like my opinion that's fair enough, (I wasn't really expectingt you to anyway) but I think enough people have expressed "concern" (to continue to be polite and restrained) over your fondness for saving down posts to the old hard drive for future harassment purposes - for you to take it on board. I think the pin pricked pretty accurately on this occasion John. But you are right in one aspect. Chocolate was right about you on quite a few occasions. Now I'll leave you to it.


Irish Brian
toomeybr@gofree.indigo.ie
June 23, 2005
hi fellow gunner fans whats happening? is this forum turning into a mud slinging contest?not what steve would have wanted!lets talk facts not fiction,and Wenger knows what he's doing!we ain't signed nobody yet!but Arsene is a genius,and why doubt him?anyone out there like someone else in charge?I don't think so!the man has turned us round.


bromley
June 23, 2005
American, thanks for Guti info. Basically agree with you re transfers, lets hope some of the young breakthrough players don't suffer from difficult second season syndrome. Big hopes for Quincy like lots of others - he's got to be Bob's replacement should he go to Valencia.


bromley
June 23, 2005
babu, I've watched the Brazilians and am pleased to see our Gilberto getting a rest on the bench. Robinho didn't look all that to me. Good, but 16-20 mill? Liked the Mexicans though - their big cf looked like a Blackburn-type of signing.


Rob K
June 23, 2005
American - good scouting I imagine AW will sign of few unknowns like that. However, I dont agree we dont need strenghtening. It is precisely our lack of quality depth that means we are vulnerable when we do have injuries. But you are well into the RTS brigade to think we are really top 3-4 in Europe. We may like to think we are but we are not. What evidence is there that we are better than Barca, Chelsea, Milan, or even Juve, Inter, Real? (I'll give you Bayern, PSV & Man U).


babu
June 23, 2005
Good grief, call this an Arse forum ?? Cheer yourselves up, please...http://www.upthearse.net//contents/kpp/punch.asp? Now my take on Guti...smokescreen for Hleb. I read that Hleb has a 22 million euro buy-out clause in his contract, so I see a sticking point, but we will get him, and as soon as Robinho signs for real then the other pieces will fit into place, meaning owen off somewhere, and then the rest fitting into the adjustments that the other teams have to make. Talking about footy (strange, I know), who has been following the confederations cup ?? No-one...great. Well that`s that topic finished. I see Clive Woodward (lions coach) is going to Southampton F C, and wants to become manager some day. The mind boggles !! No forward passes, only "up and unders", rucking and mauling, scrums , maybe he should go to blackburn. Now I`m going to watch Brazil v. Japan, hope that Nippon win. 3rd min. Nippon "goal" disallowed for off-side, quite clearly NOT. I am sick of football !!!!!!!!! Now you can see this one...http://www.upthearse.net//contents/kpp/punch.asp?target=cole. Bugger it, I`m going to play FIFA 2005 on my PS2, more "real" than the crap we`re force-fed these days. Just a quick point, a mate told me that according to dutch law you can`t get bail for a rape charge, so I think it really was set up, as whatever the outcome it will disturb Robins pre-season. Don`t underestimate the hatred that Ajax fans still have for him, and all that goes on in that scene. Robinho has just scored a nice goal, set up by Ronaldinho, shit, I`m off to my PS2.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
I'm not worried about transfers. We'll get a couple players and chances are they will be quality. We didn't lose the title last season because of a lack of quality at any particular position. We had injuries (Silva, Edu for example) and a loss of confidence (at OT). Yes, Chelsea will strengthen their squad and we need to tweak ours as well. The emergence of Fabregas and Senderos is tantamount to strengthening the squad during the season and their emergence will pay huge dividends this coming season. The present side we have, when healthy, are still one of the top 3 or 4 clubs in Europe. Whether Hleb, SWP or whomever comes or not, we're still the class of the league. **** Eskimo, could he learn to play in the PL? Pires and a host of others changed their game to adapt. Reyes is learning to change his game as well. Alonso and the spaniards at LFC have changed their game as well. The PL is Darwinian. Adapt or die. **** bromley, Guti plays right attacking midfielder and I've also seen him subbed on as a striker as well.


AmericanGooner
June 23, 2005
I saw the Italy v. USA U20 game. We lost 3-1..looked uninterested but resuming my role as unofficial Arsenal scout (if anyone sees Steve Rowley tell him to call me please :) Italy has this big striker named Pelle. Yes, it sounds like the Brazilian by a similar name. He's big like Rooney. I think only the keeper was taller than him on the pitch. We had a lot of trouble with him. He scored one of the goals. Can dribble well in close quarters. Good ball control for a guy his size but could work on his finishing. With some work he could be pretty good. Plays for a serie B team I think. Their keeper, don't have his name was very good. Our goal was scored on a PK that was twice taken. He guessed right both times and got a hand on the ball that scored. Very quick.


Gunfire
June 23, 2005
"Actually Mr Pat O'Gungunge i do not dredge uo posts from last year,what i said about you was that i had been receiving posts from you since Euro 04" Now Can of Mickey Duff's Balls I may be wrong but this year is 2005 which makes Euro 04 last year. Do try to keep up.


Bernard
June 23, 2005
EEG, I was surprised you mentioned me sayingtrading of insults, maybe because someone else said I said that yesterday. I didn't think I had though. In fact I've made the point that Chocolate's comments about Daz's sexuality and unborn child were not nice (however I worded it) and I think that's been accepted by just about everyone here (hear, Mee). But Daz's obsession I do think is unhealthy. Do you think it is healthy then? I also think you're wrong about Niall's thoughtful comments about Judge. If he is deja vu, he is wierd. How else would you describe copying one person's posts in a separate file to bring up years after they were posted. And even if deja vu isn't the Judge, then whoever it is I still think is wierd as to me, that very firmly represents wierd behaviour.


chocolate gooner
June 23, 2005
EEG … please for heaven’s sake, just shut it. I pretended to ignore Daz… oh yeah? And how do you “actually” ignore someone then you prat? Care to give me a lesson in actually ignoring someone on the Internet? Weren’t you the one who was telling me to speak to him, at the time, because it was rude to ignore people and how it wasn’t in the right spirit to ignore people on the forum? So how does what you said then square with your customary bombastic pile of manure now? If I ignore him … I’m only pretending to ignore him… if I don’t ignore him I am seeking attention… Care to explain? Logic has never been a strong point of yours, has it? Weren’t you the first person to pipe up when I first told Daz that he was a bully all those moons ago. You can’t have it both ways… if I have to deal with an idiot who has no scruples and whom I have made it clear that I have no wish to deal with then I should be allowed to deal with him in my own way and on any topic that I feel comfortable with… you can’t draw any lines when you ask for a war. I don’t like Daz… I never have and only an idiot could have failed to spot it. So for me to have to deal with the incessant unwanted and quite frankly creepy attention of a particular individual is okay if you want me to but you can’t then legislate for how I deal with it. And there is no reason why I’d have to have my posts distorted by an obsessive bully who seems to post for no other reason but to have a go at “chocolate” and who not only wouldn’t face me on his own but who corrals a whole bunch of misfits and numbskulls into his posse and who litter the forum with nonsense. I didn’t ask for your help and I see no reason to…. I’ve dealt with it. You may not like the way I chose to deal with it but I have no reason to accept your morality or your quite limited insights… and please stop misquoting what I said… I said that I WASN’T going to stop posting on account of an idiot’s twisting what I might have said but I would welcome being banned if that was what it took to get the freak off my back. That’s it…. psychological insight? you’re too thick mate. And why do you feel the need to defend him always any way? The last time you told me that he’d made a mistake but that it was only technical… only technical?? When has anything on here been anything but “technical”. You piped up on the religion thing with a stupid intervention, and on and on it goes… You are too confused to start moralising so please… BELT UP. Cheers.


bromley
June 23, 2005
Having seen very little of Guti (once or twice on the telly), can anybody tell me what his usual position is, and whether he's good enough to spend a large wad on - the prices mentioned seem a tad extravagant to me. Couldn't see us spending more than about 5 mill on a squad player. Personally, I'd love to see SWP arrive and also think we could do with another experienced GK & defender as Pascal & Almunia clearly aren't up to it.


Dadubliner
June 23, 2005
the thing is there's very few things to comment so far(apart from van persie, which i'd rather not discuss) ... quite a very boring summer indeed.


Arsenal Fish Bar
June 23, 2005
JJD - Although not always agreeing with your sentiments I tend to find your posts witty, and enlightening, shafts of light in a sometimes muddy pool. However, scrolling back through your numerous recent daily missives I can’t seem to see when you last said something at all about Arsenal Football Club – or football related issues in general. This observation of course can be directed to several forumites, but your views and thoughts would be a welcome sight to ole fish eyes >O


Hong Kong Gooner
June 23, 2005
Could someone please have a quiet word with Arsene and tell him that a big name signing brings a lot of cheer to at least a few of the supporters, me included, in the close season.


Judge JohnD
June 23, 2005
Niall: it was just to show that he didn't always get things wrong. But you on the other hand. I guess I know all the replies before I start - just like Bernard you like to post attractive sounding put-downs when cornered, that are water off a duck's back, but you are not too impressive with the accuracy of your pin pricks - maybe you need an archive to help you out? Check back the recent postings and you will see that I did not engage chocolate, he has, to be fair mostly ignored me, but his was the first challenge, as is usual. Nothing I said suggested you were a huge supporter of an archive, or implied that - just tell me if you are, or are not, involved in the new site and if, or not, an archive has been mentioned as a benefit. When was your first posting on W/L/G - when was the last? 'Judge' is not a self-imposed sobriquet - it was handed down by guess who? I've always assumed it was a reference to the similar sounding TV character - do you get anything right? I've never understood the vexation with the Mr Vu issue. You and chocolate have your theories, I only ever post from the same SP and the same PC, it's all easy really. Neither of us have ever posted slimeball comments, resented confrontation or those less than withering put-downs, or failed to explain ourselves without resorting to misrepresentation, plagiarising and yes, all right, a bit of piss-taking. If that's "haughty and cowardly", and chocolate has just posted comments that are " pretty low calibre" then I think you have a big problem with your moral radar. So what's the point - and I don't mean the cinema in MK. Did you take the malevolent comment to be addressed to you? It, unambiguously, was linked to the village idiot - but I can understand your mistake. I see a clear picture unfolding here of sympathy for the sad loser - which I mentioned earlier. Well, you can remain restrained in your views on his vile posts and feel self-satisfied at describing them in slightly less critical terms than my own - and then blame it on me because it is the old semantic Judge. I'd rather be a Daz lickspittle any old day than what you are.


Cannon Balls
June 23, 2005
Aah! Bisto is back now to join in the fun, you must have got out of the KFC early today it must be hot in this weather all of that smelly frying! Hows things down the 'lane that time forgot' another season when the only sight the supporters get of playing in Europe is playing football on the beach on their holidays !


Nico
June 23, 2005
EEG, hear, hear, I love being known for all sorts of things on here, but what beats everything is Judge JohnD referring to me as a latter day 5th century B.C beardscratcher. Love it, and it show's he's got a great sense of humour (why are people on his back, by the way?), because there are times when I've got as much socratic (or should it be S-ocratic?) wisdom as a mosquito! Or a mollusc! Or even an amoeba! The trick is to try to maintain a lighthearted spirit on here. The banter, the apparent abuse, the ribaldry - it should all be taken with ease, so long as it remains tasteful and doesn't go below the belt. Also I agree about Daz, he's preeeetty open about himself on here, which, for a person posting on an internet forum (scripta manent and what have you), is quite a gutsy thing to aspire to.


Cannon Balls
June 23, 2005
Actually Mr Pat O'Gungunge i do not dredge uo posts from last year,what i said about you was that i had been receiving posts from you since Euro 04 in your own semi-illiterate and inimitable style. So i will ask you again Patrick,Sean or who ever you are what handle were you using on here prior to last December when you popped up calling yourself Gunfire,and not forgetting Gun-Gun???. Woot! talk about seperated at birth!!!!


East End Gooner
June 23, 2005
Sorry Niall but Chocolate put himself in the position for all of this. He WANTED it whatever he might now say. That he cant HANDLE it is his own problem. He wanted to be a central character on here and adopted a persona and style that made that likely. He absolutely LOVED being spoken of in his absence. And do you know what, he is not alone. I like being known on this forum. Simple things like the shortening of my chosen name and the use of it in a form of swearing censorship all pander to my admitted ego. That probably makes me sad but in that I am joined by others. My views expressed on here are often more forthright than necessary but that is what I am recognised for on here and it creates a reaction. But I set myself up for it and have to accept what happens. I know Daz well enough to know that if at ANY time Chocolate had said "you know, I cant take this. I am not up to the game and this is affecting me" he would have stopped. He pulled out VERY quickly yesterday when he realised the bloke had gone postal. Not because of what was said but because of what IT said about Chocolate and his state of mind. But Chocolate never asked for it to stop (even if he pretends ignoring Daz was part of that - what a bunch of arse) and he aint doing it now. You talk about cowardice but he hasn't the b*ll*cks to say "ok, I was very much a part of it but have decided I cant take it" so he goes on a nasty and self-destructive streak. HE cant back out so he changes the rules to suit him and you ARE pandering to it by giving it an understanding and justification it doesn't deserve. I mean earlier he said he didn't want to post but would never voluntarily stop so he welcomed me getting him banned. That aint normal. Maybe now at least people realise that.


Bernie
June 23, 2005
All the arguements on this forum seem to revolve around cannonballs.I wonder why ?


Gunfire
June 23, 2005
"But i find your recolections of such trivial minuter over a long period of time to be obsessional and er..frankly rather odd." This from the guy who dredges up last years posts to justify his own rantings. Mr. Kettle have you met Mr. Pot?


Niall
June 23, 2005
EEG: Clearly nobody is defending Chocolate's personal postings to Daz over the past two days. I don't think anyone is pandering to him, but I think it's clear that some people have the feeling that the forum is almost becoming "Chocolate Coated." Even when he's away for a few weeks there are many many references still made to him (not all abusive I may add but enough to keep him in the spotlight) and that there are more than a few people whose main purpose seems to be to get stuck into Chocolate as soon as he makes an appearance, not caring whether they hide behind alias' or not. Some of those same people are rarely spotted when there is no chocolate pudding to be had for desert!! I've already indicated to Chocolate that I felt many of the postings I read addressed to him were an attempt to "question and scrutinise" and that in many ways his posting style is responsible for much of the reaction he gets. Actually, if Chocolate lightened up and opened up, I think he'd have it much easier but anyway. I think that is a pretty fair summation to be honest. I think the Deja Vu postings are a clear attempt at humilation and ridicule and it's happened so frequently to be considered cowardly. At least some stick to their own handle, which makes a big difference to "the game."


East End Gooner
June 23, 2005
And I should add to that, that I have always felt what came from Chocolate before to be part of the game too. People like Daz, JohnD, Cannonballs, you Niall, myself and many others have put themselves up for it with many different people and on that basis have to accept what comes their way - within reason. Chocolate strayed outside most people's sense of reason and is being ****ing pandered to like some victim of schoolboy bullying when all the while he has been running around the playground slapping people on the back of the head.


East End Gooner
June 23, 2005
Oh stop being so ****ing pious about the Judge and Deja Vu? It is humourous. Especially as Deja Vu came to the fore not of his own accord but in response to Chocolate denying he has said certain things or slightly altering the phrasing when "recollecting" it. This debate is annoying to me because it is making this all seem tit for tat. It isn't. The rest has been fair game whether it is to your personal taste or not. Chocolate's outburts were not and this lily-livered portrayal of him as some kind of victim is ****ing pathetic. Nico had some fair points but the big problem is that at all times Chocolate has been seen to be a fully willing participant and more often than not instigator in all of this. Then he lost it and went over the edge. Simple as that.


Rob K
June 23, 2005
My rough translation of dutch press on RVP matter. THe case against it is being reported that the stripper in the RVP case isan Ajax fan and apparently her boyfriend was sentenced as part of the mob that attacked RVP. Further RVP's lawyer apparently has evidence that she has changed her story twice. According to RVP's mates RVP wasn't paying her any attention at all. Meanwhile the stripper gave a frontpage interview with the leading newspaper and almost as if they were launching a PR campaign her mother explains that she is a lovely girl and had just gone to the hotel room because she thought they were going to have a party. She says she's a young girl and surely I cant forbid her from going out the house. The case against - her family are asking why he had to hire the country's best laywer Moszkowicz if he is innocent. The mother says 'the police saw with their own eyes what happened. The boys left he behind in the hotel. Without clothes.' Also the club owner denies she is that kind of girl.


Niall
June 23, 2005
I don't see the point of you repeating a quote from Chocolate Gooner to me from February in 2004 John. If you can't see just how ridiculous that appears given that those type of knock about insults have been thrown about ad nauseum on this forum for quite some time, then I'm beginning to understand some of the reasons why you appear to have lost your sanity in an attempt to chase someone over a forum cos he's hit a raw nerve with some of his barbs. Secondly, your comment was not valid as you clearly suggested that I was a huge supporter of users having the ability to look up archived postings on the new forum when I am not. As for your comments on Wiltord/Ljungberg and Grimandi, I think there is a clear case of the fact that they were A: relevant to Arsenal at the time and B: involved a lot more people than just myself. Considering JohnD, that Deja Vu's postings and your postings hiding behind aliases or taking the haughty and rather laughable self imposed title of "judge" - have no relevance to Arsenal, are plainly an attempt to ridicule and humiliate through the cowards favoured highway, often have no relevant context but an obvious dislike for an individual and considering they are rolled out almost as soon as Chocolate posts - distinguishes those comments as far more malevolent than any of mine on the virtues or lack of, Arsenal's number eight don't you think!! I am not here to defend Chocolate's postings and it's obvious you have an issue with him. However, I stand by my opinion stated earlier on both Deja Vu and also the fact that you taking issue with the word "tragically" is a semantic gesture. The fact is I was clear both were pathetic in my opinion and it's not something I particularly want to continue to debate, thanks.


Cannon Balls
June 23, 2005
Recollections,i will be glad when we get the spell checker back i have had enough of having to keep doing this! But it saves someone the trouble of posting to point it out.


Cannon Balls
June 23, 2005
Judge,what you so graphically describe in such detail what it was that Chocolate said may well be true. But i find your recolections of such trivial minuter over a long period of time to be obsessional and er..frankly rather odd .


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 23, 2005
New Redcurrant kit just arrived and hidden for my son's birthday. Will check it tonight and let you know its qualities. Checkout the arsenal.com site for team photo in old/new kit and save it as wallpaper... looks brilliant. Especially look for FABREGAS in his flat cap!


Judge JohnD
June 23, 2005
"It’s always the same… you log on to find some twerp having a go at a post they don’t understand and when caught they start twisting… this time it’s Niall. How stupid is this question from Niall?… chocolate gooner/Feb09 2004"……Niall my first point did not say that you were the mover of that feature; that, obviously, was not the issue and perhaps you can inform us if this has, or has not been, highlighted in reviews of the proposed format? I.e. my comment is valid. As with Mr Balls' observations, I get a little light headed at getting lectures on when a subject has passed its sell-by date from one who could start a fracas in an empty room at the mention of Wiltord or Grimandi or Ljungberg………Any suggestion that chocolate is some innocent who is being bullied is such a ludicrous notion it can only come from commentators who don't know the genesis of the relationships, have forgotten, are just lazy and take the line of least resistance or have their own agenda. chocolate's abuse initiated any sparring that has ensued, has been far more wide-ranging than any thrown in his direction, far more spiteful, far more random, far less humorous and on many occasions based on fraudulent postings. Because what he gets back is more thoughtful and tends to call his absurdities to account, he likes to play the persecuted fool for effect and to resort to that good old standby of blaming the messenger. Clearly this has its adherents, it's so much nicer to feel sorry for the village idiot and forget the malevolence, when the alternative is some smart arse you have been crossing swords with down the years. Hence we get, the description Mr Vu's postings - and I admit to knowing the identity but in true choco fashion reserve my right to protect that from any further disclosure - as "tragically pathetic" and chocolate's seemingly vile comments as "pretty pathetic" in the space of a couple of lines. When this is remarked on as exhibiting a strange moral priority from the self-styled peacemaker, it is excused as semantics on my part. Well, I do think that is tragically pathetic and a lot more that I will restrain from posting..


RichardE
June 22, 2005
If the SWP story is true it makes sense on a couple of levels. Firstly it explains some of the noises coming from Hleb and his club, as they could be worried it's going to fall through. Second, Arsenal would be a much better fit for SWP as he can look at our team and know he's going to play as many games as he's fit for. That's the greatest part of Arsene's recruiting, he rarely seems to buy players he doesn't need unless they're development projects which are another of his trademarks. Compare that to Chelski and their player collecting ways and it's easy to see which is more attractive to a prospective player. Of course the tie to his dad helps too.


JamesLT
June 22, 2005
Has anyone got the new kit yet? Is it as good as it looks online? Normally I'm Mr Toffs with the old retro shirts, but I might make an exception this time. I reckon this could be our all-time best-selling home shirt...


Dadubliner
June 22, 2005
inri2000, i only saw the second half actually... it is true we have a few good players coming from lyon (malouda, abidal),but overall we're really average. what i've seen is france-israel 0-0, france-eire 0-0, france-poland 0-0, france-sweden 0-0, france-switzerland 0-0 and israel-france 1-1, wow 7 draws and 1 goal in 7 games against average teams(sorry niall), that means we're average to say the least...


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 22, 2005
OK...add DIARRA (Lyon) to the list!


inri2000
June 22, 2005
Dadubliner, did you see the game against Hungary? I thought the first half was one of the most technically excellent and athletic displays I've ever seen with the young Lyon players impressing especially. Do you disagree?


Niall
June 22, 2005
Thanks for that description James, though I would suggest that Toto Schillaci isn't a name to aspire to (one world cup excepted - and one against the Irish the ****)!!


Dadubliner
June 22, 2005
funny how the german are rebuilding a very efficient young team while we french are doing so bad. domenech even said astrology can help him picking the right team...yeah he's right we'll need a f...ing miracle to qualify with him in charge...


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 22, 2005
So after reading through the cat-fight (please get each other’s email addresses and go offline!!!) we are going to replace EDU with HOBBS (£100 cash), HLEB (£8m), SWP (£18m), PODOLSKI (£4m), BAPTISTA (£6m), RAMOS (£8m) and any keeper. That should cover our £50m budget for Summer 2005 & JANUARY 2006…… PHEW, SORTED! James: let us know when they all arrive off the bus for the medicals!


harlow steve
June 22, 2005
Never be afraid of change, welcome the new all singing all dancing forum and the chance to see me with the prem trophy... Also, think of the lads warrior, niall, robK etc, giving their time to set it up and police it, so the rest of us can discuss Arsenal... Like I truct Wenegr with all things Arsenal, I'm sure the boys who run this site know best, though I would suspect Juliano on board would make sense....


JamesLT
WARNING: FOOTY-RELATED POST
June 22, 2005
DADUBLINER: Yes, you're absolutely right. Bayern will almost certainly get the first chance to buy Podolski. Maybe the only exception would be if he had a great World Cup and someone like Chelsea offered a ridiculous fee to Cologne to get him. The player himself though is a huge Cologne fan and they have a tradition of one-club players (similar to Arsenal) with major names like Wolfgang Overath spending their entire career there. Podolski is also a very good friend of Bayern's Bastian Schweinsteiger - another reason to join Bayern unless Herr Pig-climber joins Chelsea as has been rumoured...


Niall
June 22, 2005
JohnD - On your first point - you don't know the entire story behind the "new forum" so I would suggest it is unwise to entangle yourself with me on a moot point such as that you just raised. However, to give you some sort of a reply, I have never felt the ability of the new forum to archive posts was one of it's biggest selling features. If you have any of my quotes saved down to drive C there (I do have a vague recollection of some Eskimo nonsense so there has to be a chance given your reference at the end there), I'd suggest you would struggle to put my name to any posting that talked up the potential in that aspect of the new design. Secondly, given that the manner in which you post "recollections" of Chocolate's previous postings in an attempt to ridicule long after the debate has finished (when surely you had your chance to point score?) under an alias of Deja Vu (plus the numerous other ones you have used in an attempt to humiliate Chocolate) - I think the description is perfectly apt. That is of course, if you are Deja Vu which I note Bernard asked you sincerely and you have as yet to respond to. As for your second question - I have to ask and your point is? I think I was pretty clear that my opinion was that both the recent actions of Chocolate, plus the Deja Vu efforts were pathetic - so splitting hairs over a word (especially when coming from what could be termed a "repeat offender") is dealing in semantics I would say. But then maybe that's where you get off.


Rob K
rob@instantmi.com
June 22, 2005
Niall is absolutely correct. We try to moderate the forum with a lenient eye but will intervene if there is abuse (racial, sexuality, religious etc) or unacceptably offensive language (if you dont sail close to the wind you wont have to find out where the dividing line is). Thats it. If your issue is something other than that take the advice Steve gave to the whingers either ignore it or go elsewhere. If you do have a a genuine issue by all means email me but not if its just finger pointing. Otherwise, lets get on with the time-consuming task of creating gossip to fill the void of the summer break.


Judge JohnD
June 22, 2005
Niall: two points, a] how come you are involved with other webmasters around here at selling the benefits of a new site design where one of the biggest opportunities being highlighted is the virtual archiving of every contribution that has ever been posted in order that they can be recalled for subsequent review yet, when I do it, free of charge, it is " tragically pathetic"? b] here are just three of chocolate's requests from early 2004; " show me a distortion, you liar… " show me a quote where I said.." " show me where I said what you claim I said.. " What's wrong with acceding to his requests pointing out his lies or his contradictions, or trying to understand his nuances? Nice to see, that like Bernard, you have your priorities in order. Whilst chocolate's latest actions are making him look pathetic, or pretty pathetic, JohnD's posts on the forum are tragically pathetic. I suppose those Innuits in Belfast make it difficult for you to retain a sense of proportion.


chocolate gooner
June 22, 2005
Fair enough Niall. I really have nothing more to add. Cheers. … … … … … Nico, let me say a very heartfelt thank you… to you. The issue is one of fairness, if someone is fair and reasonable then you can have a fair and reasonable discussion but if they are not, then you either up sticks or you fight back. I have tussled with a fair few people on this forum including you and even Bernard … and at the end of it all people move on. I don’t mind being insulted (it would be truly silly to mind that) … Mee has had a fair go and I’ve held my peace because I had no wish to widen the nonsense. I can see the point of a joke as much as the next person and inevitably on a forum like this where we only use words and have no other contact… there are misunderstandings. You made me an offer of tickets, which I couldn’t accept because I had another engagement, tempted though I was to accept, and the fact that you then used this offer of tickets, which I politely declined as a running gag at my expense, brought a response. That is my recollection. I was never rude to you when you offered me tickets and I also remember that there was some ‘saying’ that you inserted into the offer which made me suspicious of your intent but I genuinely had no option but to reject your offer. I even think that I asked you to remember me next time around or some such. I’m not exactly flush and going to matches often costs me a lot but I’m not complaining because I’m very satisfied with my lot in life …. But this thing with this guy was always different. You may well like him but I don’t and any way it doesn’t matter now. Let’s hope there’s peace, although I have my doubts. Cheers. … … … … … … … … Cannon Balls, you are entitled to your opinion and I have to respect it but humbly disagree. No offence. Cheers. I have a lot of work to do so …Me gone. Cheers all.


Chippy's Chisler
June 22, 2005
Jake, there is plenty of time. The transfer season is like a line of dominoes the first one needs to fall before the rest follow on (God I sound like Myles). AW has a number of options and will not move until he has the right player at the right price. Personally I feel it is more important to extend those contracts entering into the last 2 years like PV4, TH14, Gilberto and Cole. Stability of our spine is vital. One or two class signings a bonus.


Dadubliner
June 22, 2005
Jameslt, i read a few days ago that bayern are after podolski, so there's few doubts he will sign for them this year or the next one, right?


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Oh dear Gungunge the expression it sounds Orish to me is not a racist remark!did you ever receive a formal education on any sort? Or perhaps a sense of humour is absent and a strong with instead a very strong nationlistic fervour in place of it? It's a shame that you don't practice what you preach squire about other races, especially the ones that get a result against your boys in green and live near the med eh?! Those crafty foreign French had bettter watch their step eh? we can't have Henry throwing a spanner in the works can we now!!! it could be la chanson des rues time in Paris when they play you! Just thought i would cheer you up a little. Oick!


JamesLT
WARNING: FOOTY-RELATED POST
June 22, 2005
NICO: That was a monumental post, determind, gritty and a true feat of endurance. It brought back memories of Dixon, Bould, Adams and Winterburn grinding out clean-sheets in the face of all adversity. I think you've summed up the situation perfectly though. A lot of fans (myself included) get carried away with the idea of who we might or, even worse , who we should buy - we're all armchair or terrace managers after all. You're probably totally right though that Wenger has a much calmer, more relaxed overview and is more focused on keeping what he has and maintaining the stead progress of the youngsters. OK, if a good player becomes available at the right price he'll think about it, but nothing more. (Having said all that, maybe we'll call a press conference tomorrow to unveil Hleb, Batista and SWP!)... ... ... NIALL: "Gaelic Buddha" is a cool title, that one might stick. Just think, we could also have Dalai Daz - wise, serene, universally-loved and never getting embroiled in petty arguments, Cardinal Chocolate - taking a hard, but reasoned line on misdemeanours Spanish Inquisition style, and maybe Ayatollah John D, issuing a fatwah against innocent writers simply exercising their right to free speech, such as Cardinal Chocolate... ... ... NIALL: Podolski is starting to look a real talent. He had some brilliant moments in the Bundesliga the season before last, although his team Cologne were relegated. Then this season he has been tremendously prolific in the second division, but there were still question marks as to how good he really was and if he could do it at the top level. His recent games for Germany have been very good though. His arrival at the top level is similar to Michael Owen's before his first World Cup. Podolski is quick - although not so freakishly quick as the young Owen - and, unlike Owen, he has quite good awareness and can play others in if he doesn't have a sight on goal. Germany 2006 will be a big test, but Podolski seems almost nerveless and thrives on pressure. Klinsmann has had a lot of criticism in Germany, but his decisions are starting to make sense. Germany have a very young team, but they could still surprise a lot of people next summer. And in Podolski (with a lot of luck) they may find they have a Paolo Rossi or Toto Schillacci-like figure who suddenly starts scoring left, right and centre.


Vicky Crescit
June 22, 2005
Arsenal Mania is reporting that they have reliable information that the Hleb deal is being held up, while the Board wait for an answer from Man City on whether they will let SWP join us. Apparently, we have made a considerable offer (judged by normal standards) but Chelsea have also made an offer (which is likely to be huge compared to ours)but SWP favours joining Arsenal - of course! It looks like it will be Hleb or SWP but probably not both, if that is true.


Dadubliner
June 22, 2005
i do remember the good old days when most if not all your posts were about arsenal, wenger, footbal and tactics, and it was not only interesting but also quite funny... i do miss it big time... :-/


Jake Parker
June 22, 2005
Seeing as how we cant even negociate a deal for Jack Hobbs of Lincoln City. I'm not to confident about us getting anyone. I think we went for Hleb and ran after being quoted £12 milion. I reckon we have also been chasing Owen but Man Utd on that one. In about two weeks with no new signings, Wenger will come out and say that prices for certain players were far to high, have a right old moan about how Chelsea have inflated the market and then say something like "It's not new signings but the players we already have that are the most important". Sound about right?


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
I have to say Judge JohnD's posts seem restrained and thoughtful. I can't see why he is being dragged into the arguement. I like the plankism though. I wonder who will fill the father of role in this new philosophy.


Judge JohnD
June 22, 2005
Bernard: you might guess from my response to Mr Balls that I don't have censorious concerns with others views of me posted here and I find it very odd that you should express yours, then apologise for them or say they the opposite might just as well be the case - administratortalk? You can construe all you like and imply I'm a liar but the post in question started " Missed all that today whilst trying to fix a dodgy battery and a melted-down alternator." That might have given you a clue. And your mealy mouthed correspondence doesn't alter the fact that when I came on, the offending posts, I am still guessing here, had been removed - I have now seen this morning's effort and have it even clearer - but Niall's remarks were there, although their significance had not dawned on me. Daz realized I had not seen them and subsequently posted a run down, but I have to say that initially I just thought 'mad, bad, choco', didn't realise the true extent of his implosion and that a further trawl of the site would reveal all. Because I was running around with my own car and my son's at the time I was off here for a long period and I did not see them, or have their poisonous nature click in, until other posters started expressing their concern. chocolate seems to have a clear agenda to pollute the forum, apologise for his frustrated behaviour, solicit the support of those who sympathise with losers and have his detractors tarred and feathered as far as this Forum is concerned. He probably even suspected he might get an Exiled style, Ashley Cole open letter from you on the subject. And by the way, Daz wasn't the first to express disgust at PtG, he was the second, I was the first. It was impressive to see your restrained and measured reaction to this offensive outburst. Perhaps I should have realised that when I introduced the notion of Plankism and asked you to retain a sense of humour, I was making a futile request? By the way, it's been troubling me - how does he know what is being said about him if he is not around here? And what exactly has been said in his absence that excuses this response?


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
"to me it is a contridiction in terms or if you like 'Orish'" Yep, bigot to the core.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Chocolate,i posted that i was not taking sides on who was wrong between you and Daz on the Sophist debate,though i agreed with you on the Judges nasty posts which to me are unfortunately being reciprocated by the tone of your recent ones to Daz. I myself have had a few unpleasent posts from him myself but there is a limit to everything and i feel that you have crossed it. Perhaps it's time to draw a line through the matter and start afresh the debates - having made your points?


Nico
June 22, 2005
Chocco, would it help you to know that there are quite a number of people who sympathise here with you? I have myself been a culprit in terms of wanting to tease you and at times it's gone over the top and strayed into bullying territory and I confess that this was partly to play to a gallery, where I imagined Daz sat in pride of place (a role assignment which has perhaps been a little unfair to him as well). I apologise wholeheartedly for that (though not to phantoms like Abba Abud about whom I'm totally unrepentant). I hadn't, in the earlier days of attending this site (which has been the first, last and only one I've visited apart from Steve's Rumour Mill), realised how hurtful the written word on a forum can be, particularly when, as in most cases, you don't know the person you are addressing, yet one somehow assumes a big familiarity with him/her. I guess that's the power and the weakness of the internet all in one. Similarly, I don't believe that you could ever be accused of having bullied me, even when you amusingly called me a 'monomaniacal kook', to which I reacted badly at the time. Good for you, I say, for putting me in my place, as Daz did on the rape case (which turned out not to be so) many moons ago (when you kindly tried to support me). On the other hand, I do not feel your comments/allegations about Daz's sexuality or unborn child are in good taste, and I feel I should stick my neck out and say this now, agreeing with those who think they bear a distinct resemblance to PTG's remarks directed at Bernard. Let's keep things in good taste, if we can, and I see no reason why we can't. I have no allegiance to Daz. I don't know him but what I know of him I happen to like, because I enjoy his humour, many of his human observations and his use of language. I do not like it when it's deployed to hammer innocent folk like Juliano, but I take it that such things may happen when his mood turns foul, and I hope Juliano (who has been missing for some time, I hope not for that reason) has taken it the same way. I would counsel people to go with the flow on it and not feel hampered from posting because of his presence, which should also be welcome here for the same reason - he supports Arsenal (a lot). He has occasionally turned me over as well, but he has also shown me support, for example, in terms of correctly valuing what it means to me to have my offers of tickets at face value accepte. He has occasionally turned me over as well, but he has also shown me support, for example, in terms of correctly valuing what it means to me to have my offers of tickets at face value accepted or rejected graciously by people, something I feel you did not do those many months ago. Everyone else has been very gracious in accepting my offers (something I find easy), and it has given me tremendous pleasure to help Gooners go to games which at the best of times can be hard to get access to - you know how hard it is from all the stories you keep hearing - people buying houses near AG to get a season ticket, I mean I ask you! - never mind the massive season ticket waiting list. Anyway, what the heck, I can take most people's foibles and I hope most people can take mine as well. I just find it a pity that a poster and a warm hearted Arsenal fan (like the rest of us) who some of us find amusing, interesting and often perceptive could feel so defenceless as to need to resort to the type of stuff that you recently levelled at Daz. His obsession is/was unhealthy (and quite naked), but that's been accepted all round, including by him. Why on Earth should it stop you posting? Stick around and enjoy yourself; you should feel free and relaxed to do so on here. It's, after all, a common support for Arsenal which brings us all together here, as engineered so successfully by the late founder of the site.


Niall
June 22, 2005
Chocolate, two quick points. Firstly, I have no wish to be seen as "Chief knob twiddler" so to speak. The reason I volunteered to help out is purely because I enjoy the forum and wanted to help with it continuing on after the unfortunate early departure of Steve. I prefer not to be seen as that nor also do I think that it was my "intervention" that made Daz "shut up." Perhaps he is just being smart and not responding to insults that are seen by the majority of the forum as pretty low calibre? As for your issue with posts being questioned and scrutinised, I have to be fair and say that on most occasions I felt that is what was happening - though I hold my hands up and admit I never read any of the sophist stuff, nor the favela's in Brazil discussion you guys had so I'm not in a position to judge on all the issues of the day. I agree with you re: the daja vu stuff entirely and basically if you feel posts are abusive or being twisted then why not email: Rob or I to take a look at them, rather than making yourself look bad and diluting your position. I don't think there is a need to "gratuitously offend anyone" - on their personal life. I have no issues, nor do I expect do many, with the knock about insults dished out over football and other subjects that arise. Nobody can sort out your issue with Daz but the two of you to be brutally frank, but as I said earlier, take a step back before taking it too seriously.


East End Gooner
June 22, 2005
That is my problem Niall - Chocolate thinks it has worked when actually everyone is just edging away from the weirdo shuffling his hands in his trousers, partly out of embarassment and partly out of fear they might get hit with something. Your problem now is that who is to stop him doing it again or to stop someone else adopting the same "tactic"? Its a joke really. In the real world it would get you kicked in but Chocolate is a master at exploiting the anonymity of this format. Pathetic.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Summations!


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Well Gungunge i did not try to pull you up over your ludicrous post on the boring Judges musings, which you described to be 'erudite summantions' on your spelling, my own typing and spelling is often pooron here so it would be rather like the pot calling the kettle black. But it was rather the fact that the use of that phrase that you used bore no corelation to the reality of what the Judges posts are. I made a joke asking what does it mean is it Gaelic because to me it is a contridiction in terms or if you like 'Orish'. A summanation being a review of and coming to a final conclusion on an argument. Hardly something the the learned judges 'erudite' summimg ups produce, but rather that of an hung jury and a retrial. So ouch! you have caught your todger in the zip of your fly again squire! Also i will repeat it again i did not post the Mick Duff post,okay, if i did i would not have done one that so obviously could have come from me. My use of the word Duff being well known would give the game away. So what would be the purpose??? i could have posted something like that under my own handle it's obviously a wind up - but not one of mine. Again i advice you squire to grow up,and for Christs sake shut up!!!!!


chocolate gooner
June 22, 2005
Niall… if Daz continues to remain stum as you put it… that suits me fine. I have absolutely no interest in the guys personal life but I have a reasonable expectation to be allowed to post and have the actual content of my posts questioned and scrutinised. What is utterly unacceptable is to have what I say distorted relentlessly by the same idiot. And whatever you may feel about my “tactics” they have worked. You’ve intervened and he’s shut up. Long may it continue. As for the rest like I said before, that you are now chief knob twiddler doesn’t change the fact that during our run-ins you were mistaken to say the least. I have never ascribed an opinion to you that you didn’t hold. I have never done it. I know that you won’t agree but I have never ever done it. Any way I have to humbly admit that your post is fair and a lot fairer than I would have expected in the circumstances. I have no wish to gratuitously offend anyone but like I said… needs must. Let there be peace. Cheers.


tom c
June 22, 2005
Careful Chippy's, your don't want your post about Arsenal to interrupt all the bitching now do ya??


East End Gooner
June 22, 2005
Ah poor old Chocolate - are you feeling victimised? As I said before I have only once before intervened in any debate because only once before has the level descended so ****ing low that it impacts on those just looking in. So when should I have intervened with Daz? When has he stooped so low? In his "obsession"? And how did you want me to protect you on that? Other than that, I recall him suggesting you might stick a hamster up your arse from time to time. Now I dont know how near to the "knuckle" that actually was but I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it wasn't based on any special level of insight. He has told the forum of my liasons with a thai waiter at the Bailey on a number of occassions but I am not unhappy that you didn't jump to my defence then. This is my point. You dont understand the difference in what you are saying. But you probably never will until you get out more. Your comments about Steve wash straight over me. You are the one who used to post your sycophantic nonsense so I thought I might remind you of your own statements. Nothing to do with Steve's memory. And telling me to "shut up" and calling me a "muppet" is similar. Seriously why would I care? Over a network connection? Its the self-awareness thing. Maybe ask Mandela how he dealt with the issues that confront you both.


Niall
June 22, 2005
Ok since this row seems to be tumbling into a second day then us well known peacemakers over in Belfast must step into the breach once again and sort out a mess created by a couple of Englishmen. Ok, now that I have successfully lightened the mood of my post here's my tuppence worth. Firstly, Chocolate your latest "tactic" of attacking Daz's personal life is seriously not on and is definitely not what the forum is about. It is also making you look pathetic and is taking away from the points that you feel you have in your favour - such as your claim to be being bullied and the object of an obsessed lunatic!!While the forum often thrives on little tete a tetes between differing characters (love you Mr Balls!!), rarely have I ever seen it's quality reduced to pathetic insinuations about people's personal lives - even more so when you think your attacks make absolutely no sense at all. Ok, Daz is divorced and has a new partner and is expecting to be a father soon. What is shameful about that? Absolutely nothing. Some marriages don't work out and the birth of a new life is only something to bring happiness and joy. To make an unborn baby the article of attack is sinking really low dude. To attack Daz's partner who doesn't post here - is also pretty pathetic. To accuse Daz of being "homosexual" when the evidence suggests very much the opposite just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You may think this new tactic is smart Chocolate but I can assure you that it is far from that and with Daz remaining stum at the minute you are grabbing all the headlines for the wrong reasons. Also, I think many people like the fact that Daz is open about himself and his interests and enjoy his postings. When you give so little away about yourself, it makes it pretty underhand in my opinion to use that sort of stuff against him.However, I have got some sympathy for your case that Daz is obsessed with you and I think Daz would probably accept that himself. And I certainly support you in your case that the likes of JohnD with his saved posts of your statements, rushing to the forum every time you post is tragically pathetic. I have always got the impression that your ramblings with Decaf are light hearted in a way and anyway I think you have handled him with ease (no offence Decaf!!). I've also thought that you handled yourself quite well in some of your dealings with the aforementioned and certainly you got JohnD's back up which I would take as a compliment!! However Chocolate, you can't escape the fact that your posting style of abusing everyone's opinion most of the time, running away from debates when cornered and a penchant for builiding up arguments for people that they don't hold then attempting to knock them down doesn't help your cause. Anyway, in short, and I hope I don't receive a torrent of abuse now for trying to be even handed,I I think you are a good contributor to the forum for the simple reason that you are one of the few with the ability to spark off debates, I like being described as the Gaelic Buddah and maybe its time to stop taking it all so seriously. It's knockabout stuff and has no relevance to your life really, though I accept it is easy to get annoyed. Anyway, thats me...I'm off to duck for cover before the WOOSH!!


Gunfire
WARNING NON_FOOTY POST
June 22, 2005
Can of Balls (or Mickey Duff)I'll give you a small bit of advice (again!) because I feel a bit sorry for you. Never pull someone up on spelling and punctuation on the net for 2 reasons 1)It is an informal medium and does not have the strcitures of say academic writing. Therefore people who have lives, friends, jobs etc (I am taking a leap of faith in assuming you have at least one of these) don't have the time or willingness to check spelling and punctuation. You tried to pick me up on the spelling "summanations" when it was obvious I meant "summations" but you shot yourself in the foot by asking someone from a region in south west france to hit me over the head when what you meant (Again benefit of doubt) was a french waiter and 2) People who highlight spelling and punctuation errors are usually planks who can't find anything else to add to a topic and are trying feebly to get a dig in at someone. Anyone who drones on about arty-farty-pseudo-intellectual stuff is usually someone who is made to feel inferior by the topic being discussed. The best thing to do can of Mickey Balls Duffer is ignore said posts and work on your insults. I do detect a marginal improvement in that dept.


chocolate gooner
June 22, 2005
EEG… give it a rest. When was the last time you intervened in a spat involving myself and Daz and told Daz to tone it down… NEVER that’s when the last time was, and yet you choose to make a self-serving, biased and typically daft intervention and base it on SteveG’s memory. And you talk of low rent? I have never given a damn for your opinions on anything much and I certainly don’t give a rat’s arse for them now so please shut it, you muppet. For your information getting me banned is no skin off my nose… because Daz has made posting utterly impossible for me. I spend my time dealing with nothing but his idiocy… if not his then idiocy inspired by him. I don’t need your sympathy and I definitely don’t need your stupid advice… So please get me banned because what isn’t going to happen is for me to voluntarily stop posting. Geddit? Cheers.


East End Gooner
June 22, 2005
Chocolate - if you had just a tenth of the insight you think you possess, you would have realised the "put a sock in it" is a ****ing futile statement that means absolutely **** all to me. If I think you are a ****, I will say it and I will do so as many times as I fancy. So what are my vested interests then? That I prefer Daz as a character to you? Probably true but so what? What is the interest and how is it served by my comments to you? Think about it if you can. What do you think is my goal? To have you banned? As I said that wouldn't be good for me because the knockabout nature of this forum is its strength and you have never crossed the line in my debates with you and whats more I enjoy taking the piss out of you and seeing you make an arse of yourself for my viewing pleasure. So what else could be my goal? Who is going to serve my interest? I just think what you are saying is pathetic and disrespectful, not to Daz, but to everyone else and to the forum itself. Keep kidding yourself though. What surprises me most is that so many here are accepting of it. But I suppose that is the level of social-awareness you should expect from people who do most of their interraction via a modem.


Chippy's Chisler
June 22, 2005
Looking at the co-efficients used to determine Champions League seedings, it is important that we get a good run this year as we are very close to dropping out of the top 8 (we are currently 8th), down to 9th or even 10th. Being in the top 8 means we avoid the big guns though we could draw Juve, PSV or Lyon. Full list of coefficients at the end of this article....http://www.teamtalk.com/teamtalk/News/Story_Page/0,7760,1766_535432,00.html


East End Gooner
June 22, 2005
Bernard - I have to say I think it is piss poor that you are sticking to your misdirected comments about "unhealty obsessions" or a "trading of insults". When I think back to the outrage you showed when Phil The Gooner made comments directed at your family it is strange that you are trying to play the "above it all" role here. It doesn't matter what Daz did or said (except to the extent it exposed Chocolate's weaknesses). What has been posted by Chocolate over the last couple of days is at least as deserving of condemnation as the comments from PTG that had you spluttering all over the shop.


chocolate gooner
June 22, 2005
EEG … put a sock in it. You are not a disinterested party making an objective comment, are you? You are a forumite with vested interest, no? So please, please, please leave the advice scam alone. I’m not interested in your advice and quite frankly given that you have all the psychological insight of a mosquito, why should I? Good day. I have to keep coming back to deal with nonsense.


Bernard
June 22, 2005
There are some restrictions on Wenger meeting players on the M25: it doesn't have many service stations. There's one at junction 23 (the one for Barnet), but I'm struggling to think of many others. The M1 looks more sensible to me; lots of lovely service stations.


Chippy's Chisler
June 22, 2005
Or maybe its just a work of fiction but at least its a transfer related rumour.


Chippys Chisler
June 22, 2005
After all AW said about Chelsea meeting Cole in a hotel, maybe he should of met him on the M25, or maybe he has permission to meet him from Juve.


Niall
June 22, 2005
Hmm, would Wenger (reportedly in Germany) risk meeting Trezeguet in a London Hotel? Doubt it.


Chippy's Chisler
June 22, 2005
Sky Sports rumour mill reporting David Trezeguet was in London for 3 days last week and that AW met him twice. No sure about having another moody Frenchman but if TH14 wants him then go for it. http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=178319&CPID=&clid=&channel=football_home


East End Gooner
June 22, 2005
Chocolate - still raising the quality bar I see. Problem is you think you have stumbled on a tactic that works because no-one is stooping to the same level. Truth is your "insults" are laughably pathetic - a sort of playground bitch slap addressed at adults. My wife (go on have a go at her) had to deal with much worse from 7-year olds - though I have a feeling they might have had more understanding of what they were talking about. But the point is no-one else wants to demean themselves in response so its a "game" you are deluded into thinking you are winning. But that is by the by. You are a **** with not an ounce of self-awareness (which I suppose might be the only thing that sets you apart from Mandela) so none of that affects you. What is more interesting to me is the way you are prepared to soil the forum of someone you claimed to have great respect for. I dont want you banned because I am a rubber-necker and I am happy to watch you spread all over the hard shoulder but you know full well that Steve would not have accepted those comments. You are pissing on his forum and it is seriously unpleasant. I couldn't give a **** that the comments are aimed at Daz. He is big enough and no doubt ugly enough to handle them. What I care about are the comments themselves. As I say, only once before has this site descended to insults of a vile nature that offend not only those they are aimed at but the rest of the forum. Your protestations that your comments on gay people and AIDS and your insults directed not at the person you have issue with but at their partner are only relevant to that person betray either your stupidity or your low rent nature. Something tells me it is more the former (though you would love to pretend it is the latter). You just haven't the brains nor the social skills to understand where the lines are and what is different about your conduct. Please clean up the drool and other bodily fluids and do your best to return to at least your former level of "normality".


Bernard
June 22, 2005
Daz, I just think your obsession with Chocolate is unhealthy, however much Decaf may want to legitimise it. I'd be surprised if in reality you can't see it yourself. I can't see how it's good for you, or him. Decaf, I just think people should drink the wine they like and eat the food they like. And if someone likes fish and red wine, I don't see any problem in having them together. Judge, are you the person who posts under the deja vu handle (I'd imagine it's a common impression that you might be)? Because if you are and you seem to copy most of Chocolate's posts in a separate file to call up later, I find it very hard to believe that you had not seen what you refer to as Chocolate's particularly nasty comments (though that didn't stop you from getting the "gist of their content"), or that when you made your "comment about the SPs to Niall" you had "no idea of chocolate's poisonous allegations" (quotes in speechmarks are all your phrases). The fact is that I can construe your post as a comment on what chocolate had said and therefore I still believe my claim was legitimate (I accept I may be mistaken, but it is a 'fact' that I can construe your post in that way). However, if "no you can't" was a response to my request not to be asked any questions, I'm afraid I'll just have to disappoint you and respond less than you may want. I'm afraid I find you insufferably dull, tedious, pretentious and boring; and thus simply not worth communicating with. It wouldn't surprise me if you feel a similar way about me, so there's no great loss on either side as far as I can see. Hence I won't keep them coming as you asked, as I don't think you're worth the time or effort. Apologies for telling you what I feel like that, but as I said, I don't think it's a loss for either of us.


Eskimo
June 22, 2005
Charlie - not sure if Riquelme is a Premiership player, not because of ability but because of his style of play. He needs time on the ball, so would slow our game down and needs to be the biggest or one of the biggest players in the team to florish. That's one of the main things I noticed when he playing for Barcelona, he would be robbed of the ball or forced into a making a crap pass while thinking about his next move, or would make an excellent pass...but his team mate would have already left where he was standing. It made him look rubbish and dumb (the expression on his face didn't help either). However, if the oppo' make the mistake of giving him time, he will destroy them. I dunno what changed when he played for Villareal because he was still playing in Spain, I didn't pay enough attention, but I assume his team mates made sure that the other team's players were kept away from him, that they made the runs to match his passes and gave the ball to him whenever possible. That wouldn't happen at Barcelona (not when he's the 23 year old new kid anyway - maybe it would now), and I'm not sure it would/should happen with us either. Every ball has to go through him otherwise he won't be doing anything. I don't think he has much pace, however he has skill, a good shot on him and a good range of passes. I don't know what kind of person he is, he seems quiet, I've never seen him shout, but that could mean anything, he could be planning a murder for all I know. Also he must have a lot of personal worries 'cos he's looked like an old man to me ever since I started watching him play when he was around 20, but obviously Arsenal don't take looks into account otherwise we would never have signed Keown back when he left. He will be a great player for a team out there someday and I think he is more likely to drag a mediocre team into good times (must be why Spurs are trying to buy him) than visible improve an already great team at the moment, but obviously I could be wrong. I'd be surprised if he joined us and even after saying he wouldn't fit into our team, I'd be happy if we bought him (but would prefer Aimar) because he is very talented. *** PTBAG.


kiwipete
June 22, 2005
BogdanK .. contrary to what Richard E [ and apologies to Richard don't want another gunfight at the OK Corral ]says ..if you haven't seen a game of Aussie Rules you might be hard pressed to fathom what is going on...something like World War 3 without rules would be a fitting description and of the two league games Bulldogs [ always play attractive league ] v Tigers would be the better option. The Roosters are under performing this season and the Rabbitohs are awful. Gunfire ...maybe this percieved arrogance is part of the psyching up process which pervades modern sport humility and graciousness is thin on the ground these days. Who knows we will see if it was misplaced come Saturday.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
American, i am not sure about Owen going to Manure,it would stir up a lot of hatred among the fanatical lovable scally car-thieves supporters. Owens family and his own house are located in car-thieves territory and things could turn nasty when the inevitable defeats start happening next season and the euphoria of the Champions League victory wears off.I would not rule out Ferguson going in for him though,he went hard after Gerrard, but the scouser toldthe drunken oaf to buzz off,not quite in those words however! So Owen will be either a brave man to go and join the DJ's fading outfit at OT or a desperate one needing to stake a claim for Germany next year.That might persuade him if no regular first team football is guaranteed at RM and no one else puts in an acceptable offer for him.It looks like Mourinho will not be doing so and may start with Drogba again up front,i reckon that Motormouth lacks the bottle or know-how to change his pragmatic tactics and we will get deja-vu or whatever that is in Portoguese again from the blue-bores.Woot! that will sell the Sky Season tickets! I am not convinced that the drunken jocks problems of a lack of goals is down entirely to the Horsefaced nerds demise. Indeed part of his demise is down to not receiving the same sort of sevice, a'la Becks, that he did when first galloping out at OT a few moons ago. The DJ's got through a few bottles of Whisky since then and it's showing! It looks to me that the side that he's cobbled together are like ships passing in the night - all going in different directions!. Rooney and Fake Ron are not natural goal scorers firing in speculative long range efforts in the main and ignoring the runs that Horsehead makes., which is adding to his obvious frustrations and contributing to his lack of goals. It's a known fact that he wants away,bigtime. So does Rio,and if the truth were known a few others too.Keane is well not so sharp these days or the ginger dwarf either,though at least he will look at home on the team photo with Malcom and sons posing with their English Soccer team. In fact he looks like one of Malcoms sons,and who knows he might be! I reckon that the DJ will be on his bike and away if by Christmas it's all going pearshaped at OT leaving a right old mess behind him that could take decades to put right. It could not happen to a nicer club! Bring it on..


Niall
June 22, 2005
Not yet Darren, but I'll check for you later this evening.


Steve c/o Coldiz
June 22, 2005
James LT,a birdy told me a while back that if Denis was´nt offered a new contract,del piero was on his way,and the man himself mumble Arsenals praises.Like Nico said we have good talent coming through.The only positions I have problems with is RM so Helb would´nt really fit,I guess SWP would be a good move but is he really gonna break down a packed Italian defence???I doubt it,no speed is okay but it has to be the quick thinking and technical interchanging football which will do this.Goalkeeper,what if Jens starts to faulter,we need a back up.Guti had some marverlous performances a couple of years back,but has always stayed in the shaddows of the Brazilian imports and Raul.Get him to loose a couple of Tonnes and I could see him do what Morrientes done for Monaco.6-7 mil tops.Apart from that all seems to be good,Stokes will play a little more as will the other Swiss lad,can´t remember his name Djo....or something,too lazy to look it up,Johan,something,plays well for the yopung swiss team.I hope Pires stays,at least for T14 morale,but in europe he sometimes goes AWOL if things are´nt to good-bad weather,a mean looking opponant,etc.What we do need is a revampt PR media overhaul,our PR stinks.


Darren
June 22, 2005
There seems to be mumblings of possible movement re: Hleb in some of the papers today. Maybe we've decided to up our bid. Niall - any news on who was posting as me?


Niall
June 22, 2005
JamesLT - what do you think of Lucas Podolski?


Mee
June 22, 2005
Decaf: The rungs on the ladder to which you refer are infinite in number. Presumably there are others clinging to rungs above your own? All I ask is that someone who feels, however inappropriately, to be intellectually threatened, should not be damned by the group of people he aspires to join. All this is very demeaning to Chocolate, and I’m aware that my judgements and appraisal of him have not the slightest basis in fact .


Nico
June 22, 2005
James LT, apologies in advance for an extremely boring and lengthy post in answer to your question about transfers, but I had a bit of time, so here goes with a little caricature of what our Arsene might be thinking these long and hot sunny summer days. 'No need to panic. We don't need to strengthen much anywhere; we are already getting stronger day by day. We did ok-to-very-well last season. After all, how many teams have finished the Premiership season with 83 points and 'only' come second? And we won another major trophy in style making me the most successful coach in the Club's history. The team wobbled a bit after the 'special circumstances' match at Old Trafford, but something like that was understandable after a 49 match unbeaten sequence, and it was only because of that unique occasion that we lost our title. And it won't happen again as we know how to fix it more quickly next time. We recovered well in the end and our defensive stability has been restored to its former excellent state. In addition some of our youngsters have much more match experience now and will be even more solid next season, whilst others are coming through, and we are working to keep all our players at the Club, which has to be our priority. No-one except Edu is definitely going, not even Cygan, who seems happy enough playing reserve team football and helping the youth along with his experience and professional example. Or Almunia, who did so well to keep us in the FA Cup at Sheffield United. We are more confident than ever before that Cole will stay, particularly if, as expected, his agent is banned some time soon-ish within the next few years (so maybe no need for Cole to pluck up the enormous courage needed to sack him before dealing with us, if the Bozzie doesn't come up first, that is - gosh, the Club really do seem far too bothered about these Bozzies, money-minded bunch of E*G's - they've never had it so good).The RVP situation will resolve itself but if it doesn't Aliadiere and Reyes will soon be on new deals and Quincy is showing such huge potential, I might just think about putting him out on loan for the season so Arsenal fans can go elsewhere to watch him, whilst Lupoli, Stokes and Bendtner will soon be coming through over the next 5 years. Of course if a player becomes available who just miiiight strengthen the existing set-up, then we could, if we feel like it and have nothing better to do with our time (unusual), show some interest, but why panic? Let's make sure we don't block off the youngsters' progress first. Van Bommel on a free, for example, was a daft idea; whoever thought of that needs to look closely at himself. Barcelona need players; we don't, and aside from Bosmans or loopholes in European contract law for 14 year olds, why go around proactively looking for expensive players, inducing them to break contracts (like United, Chelsea and all the other big clubs except us), and then finding ourselves in competition with others, or being asked to negotiate against ourselves by the selling clubs? Why bother at all? The summer is for rest, recuperation, some light training and a few low key games or a little bit of dabbling with a few expensive contract extensions (too darned right, expensive - people say I'm stingy but they forget how contract extensions eat into transfer kitties like piranha fish), which seem easy enough to manage. Senderos, for example, would love to stay, I am told, so that one's a doddle, surely, which I can look at in a year or three - he's already on an excellent (for someone his age) contract for five years, so why hurry? And anyway what positions really need addressing? The keeper will be playing out of his skin with his eyes firmly on selection for the World Cup next summer (as will all the others). The central defensive situation is excellent with the emergence of Senderos. If Cole stays, great; if he goes (which won't be for two years - giving us excellent value on his current rate of pay, so who cares about the loss of transfer value?), we have Clichy to step in at left back. At rb Lauren may be slowing down but we have great belief in Eboue or Hoyte. Central midfield is intact apart from the loss of Edu who wasn't playing much first team football anyway. The striker situation looks fine even if Van Persie may never kick a ball for us again. Mayyyybe, maybe, maybe we could add a player who could play more as a target man for those sunny days at home to stubborn Bolton, but who knows? We'll see who wants to join, and whether we can nab him without Chelsea noticing. As for the wide midfield positions, because of our over 30's rule, we may lose Pires who wants a cheeky 2-year deal when he knows full well we CAN'T give even our best and most loyal players more than one year (but extremely generous, though decreasing financially) rolling contracts, so here we may need to look for a replacement but will do so only when we know whether he's staying or going (which may be in August when it might be too late to do anything about it, but what the heck, I can still play Reyes there), whilst I'm really not a big believer in the Dowling theory of fielding too many wide men who can stretch defences and make goals from a variety of angles... so Ljungberg is fine for now on the right whilst I remain unconvinced with Bentley. You know, all in all, I'd far rather keep my hands in my pockets, and let the Club spend my transfer fund on debt management. That way we can plead poverty when the complaints start coming, which is obviously not quite yet, as reflected by booming season ticket sales. Let them all complain when it's too late, after the season has started...the ungrateful little E*G's - I'm still giving them caviar on taramosalata money, and they dare to moan!?'......I'm beginning to have my doubts about big name signings, James LT, but there's still time, I suppose, isn't there Harlow? Phew!


Dr Ruth
June 22, 2005
Blimey Chocolate I can't believe you're still w**king on about Daz, why can't you see that it's boring and silly? You really should get out more.By the way I have no need to cross dress darling.


Decaf
June 22, 2005
Choc, you miss the point (or choose to avoid it) as usual. Its a question of standards. You don't have any and Daz does. We are not attacking you we are attacking what you represent. That is a constant (sadly). Its so simple. Also, is it 'cowardly' to pay someone a compliment these days? Quite the opposite I would have thought. And please don't start on HIV.


JamesLT
June 22, 2005
For anyone that can understand a little German, Alexander Hleb has today updated his webpage and talks for the first time about interest from Arsenal. He seems to eb hedging his bets still, admitting he's flattered by Arsenal's interest, but that he'd also be willing to stay at Stuttgart if he has to and that he's impressed they've appointed Il Trap as their new trainer. He's obviously far from certain that Arsenal will up their bid and doesn't want to burn all his bridges with his current club.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Thank's Decaf,i prefer it when you use easily understood everyday straficational grammar rather than his Lordship Judge Dreadful's rather rudish 'erudite summanations' which unfortunately only a genius like Gungunge can understand on here.So his Lordship is casting his pearls before swine. It makes a pleasant change to read a post that us 'slower ones' and 'old farts' can make sense of with out having to resort to having to go out and buy a bigger dictionary. Not that Gungunge of course needs to do that with his encyclopedic mind to fall back on for instantaneous reference on any subject. Obviously a candidate for Mastermind this guy! His subject - well perhaps someone that he can identify with like Don Quixote? Gungunges favourite song is 'The Windmills Of My Mind' and after downing a milk-churn full like amount of Arthurs of a night time he is said to be able to sing a passable rendidition of it. Well sing it while passing out that is!


Decaf
June 22, 2005
Bernard: red and fish???!!! No wonder you don’t have any problem with CG level standards. “Those who occupy higher ground, should have due regard for those on the lower slopes struggling to gain a foothold. I don’t have your photographic recall of chocolates earlier quotes ..." If you did, Mee, you would know that Chocolate's entire career here has been a Pecksniffian attempt to scramble up that social slope by progressively attacking or sucking up to each person who (by his reckoning) is a rung above him in the pecking order. Choc has almost always been the aggressor, and as I recall, he had to goad Daz for quite a while before he got a response. He has also (as we have seen with his plagarising and identity tricks) eschewed no tactic (neat phrase, hey Choc), despite maintaining a holier than thou façade. Now we know (to quote Jack London) the “warp and woof” of him. So “s’no’ fair” that the windy little E*Ger reaped the wirlwind? He wanted to play.


socrates
June 22, 2005
JamesLT......if Guti is the kind of big name, big money signing Wenger is looking at then I am not at all convinced.Wenger's speciality is the unknown, low priced, "unpolished diamond" if you like.......if Guti is an example of who he would buy when he does have some decent money to spend then I would rather he stuck to the bargain basement signings. I may be being unfair on Guti but he is 28 and has hardly set the world alight in an ageing/declining RM team.


Decaf
June 22, 2005
Bernard, let me try to explain to you why Daz is "unhealthily" obsessed with Choc (apologies to Daz for presuming, and to everyone else-do I sense Leviathon stirring down there in Bavaria?-if this comes across as that oh-so-un-post-Thatcherite thing, a compliment). Choco is a miserable, self-regarding, little eel with (as Daz neatly put it) no volume control and the honesty of an Argentinian centre-half who has just knee-capped an opposing player. A lot of people seem to have accepted him on the same basis as they accept all other signs of falling standards--they have become used to it, and have started making allowances. So which position is unhealthy? Why do people like choc? Is it because they find the rarefied air of real debate makes them light-headed? You need to distinguish "earthy" and "E*G". Use your nose.


Decaf
June 22, 2005
"Sophistry is exactly the type of nonsense that Decaf would indulge himself in! Arty-farty -psedo-intellectual claptrap!" Almost right, Cannonballs. Firstly, a free lecture which I did not plagarise from spandex.org. The value of Sophists is that they show that people who think they are not "Arty ... " are claptrapping-flatulent in some other way. For exhibits a/ b/ and c/ see your last three posts. Secondly, I particularly like the 'psedo'. Amazing wot u can do. Apart from the loss in gravitas caused by the ludicrous suggestion of 'speedo' (invokes mental image of Chocolate-Gonzales of underdeveloped spandex-clad loins girding himself to do a tripple belly-flop) it seems to me a clever play on pedo (child-a racy suggestion there from the staight-laced one?) and pseudo. Like SOCCER, hey? Childish rather than Childlike, what? Artful rather than arty, hey? Cheers. ZOOM ...


AFC
June 22, 2005
Anynews of any medicals james ??


JamesLT
Ready to spend?
June 22, 2005
Everything seems very quiet on the transfer front at the moment with le boss supposedly in Germany on a working holiday to comment on the Confederations Cup for French TV. Presumably when that's over (or before) the club will finally make a move for the two or three major signings they promised the fans - and remember these could be players we've heard and will be established experienced players according to Arsene... Is everyone confident though that Wenger will spend well? We know he is the worldwide King of Bargain-Hunting. David Dickinson has nothing on Wenger. However, how successful are when we actually have serious money to spend. Our most expensive signings under Wenger have been Reyes, Wiltord, Henry, Jeffers and Van Bronckhorst (unless I've missed someone out). Wiltord had his moments and Reyes has tremendous potential, but probably only Henry has been an outright success and the likes of Jeffers and Van Bronckhorst were major (and expensive) disappointments. Are we going to buy two or threee new Henrys or two or three new Jeffers? How confident is everyone???


AmericanGooner
June 22, 2005
bromley, gunfire, if you're old enough to remember back then, after the '91 and '92 seasons did you think the LFC era was definitely over? They didn't win a title for 2 years as well. At one point did you realize that LFC were done? At what point will we say Man Yoo are done? What place in the table? 4th? 5th?


AmericanGooner
June 22, 2005
Thanks CB. I think the Japanese adopted the term from us anyway. After WWII, they adopted a few things (baseball for one). **** I am not so sure that Man Yoo will hang on to 3rd. If LFC had stayed out of the CL they could challenge for 3rd if Morientes comes good and Cisse gets settled. But I think all those early CL games will kill off their domestic league season. Too many big games too early in the season and by March they won't have any legs. The best thing for them is to go out early. Bolton may have a shot as well. Its their away form against midlevel and lower level sides that do them in. They play the big clubs great at home and give them a good run for the money away. A good signing or two this summer and fat Sam may have a shout at it. I am very optimistic about us. The run of games when in March and April said a whole lot. Tighten up the defense and we'll have at least 94 or 95 points next season. No way we'll drop points to the bottom dwellers like we did last season. The main thing is every one knows they can't afford a slip like you did in the past. I've maintained for a while that since Chelsea came in the league that no more than 2 or 3 losses and a half a dozen draws or less will do and that comes out to 90 + points. If the rumors are true about Owen to Man Yoo it would be interesting. Fergie needs a finisher. RVN was his finisher but he's not doing it for them. But would Owen go to the enemy?


AmericanGooner
lets all laugh at spurs
June 22, 2005
http://www.pabs.co.uk/footy/index.php?c=Tottenham&fid=58


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
American,yes your right the Japanese do call football Soccer,but this is like in the case of America a colloquial use of the word. Soccer is an etrymology a shortening and alteration with a 'C' being added to make it Soccer from the full name of Association Football which the pro-league game was called in England after it's inception to differentiate it from the amatuer sport of football. SOC (from ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL) + CER = SOCCER.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Er,excuse me Gungunge but the paronoid-schizophrenia is showing squire, the Mick Duff post was not me.You seem to believe that everyone who posts some thing about you that you do not agree with on here is me. You will be saying that i posted the Dabdubliner one next asking you not to imitate him! Ask your pal Niall to check the IPS on my posts i did not send the Duffer one. I do some spoof posts now and then but they are obviously that - and easily recognized as being mine - and under my IPS, so stop making allegations that are not true about me again you paranoid twat. Other people on here have expressed their dislike of you because your an obvious phoney,your problem is your so transparent and unintelligent - but unfortunately can not see it! Grow up for Christs sake you pathetic moron.


Niall
June 22, 2005
Just to clear it up - there were 6 IP addresses under the name Chocolate Gooner. I originally thought it was him as the IP was similar to chocolate's IP from previous postings. However, knowing that some people like to post under people's handles to annoy/wind up, I was suspicious of there being six, when most people who post at the times Chocolate does (day & night) would most likely have a computer they use at home and one at work, making 2 IP addresses. Therefore, I checked the ISP against other users on that ISP and found 3 results. So either they were impersonating Chocolate or it was indeed Chocolate himself. When I ssaw who the people were on the ISP, I knew that it was highly unlikely to have been them. Anyway, I was later able to access the new forum and confirm it was Chocolate and he owned up to it anyway, making it all rather redundant.


AmericanGooner
June 22, 2005
We'll need a keeper for the first couple CL games at least while Lehmann is serving a suspension. Do we trust Almunia? Should Taylor get a chance? Chances are its going to be a new signing.


Pete
June 22, 2005
So XXX, What will Torres, Hleb and Kirkland be singing exactly? I'd love to know. Some Jazz,Folk music? Will they be forming a band?


Judge JohnD
June 22, 2005
Bernard: "no you can't" was a response to your request not to be asked any questions. Your assumptions are based on a totally false premise. As this day progressed I realised that chocolate has posted some particularly nasty comments which have been removed from the Forum. I had not seen them but now sort of get the gist of their content. When I made my comment about the SPs to Niall I had no idea of chocolate's poisonous allegations. Therefore, my post cannot be construed as any comment on what chocolate had said, or someone else might have said, and that led to its removal. The insistence that your claim was legitimate and that I was strongly implying chocolate's guilt in an unfair manner, is a rush to judgement that is mindless on all three levels. Niall's point was, if I understand it right, that if a post, say from yourself, has a particular IP address, then one purporting to be from you that had an unattributable IP address could be regarded as suspect. Likewise one from your IP address that, say, purported to be from chocolate, could likewise be considered suspect. I say again, if chocolate did have six SPs on a single computer, how would he be deceiving anyone by posting from each in turn under his own alias? Unless, that is, he planned to subsequently deny it was himself and that someone was imitating - but that's too barmy even for this Forum. The trickery would be to post under another's alias from one of the other SPs. That of course is not an accusation, just trying to explain the bleeding obvious, given my previous remarks. So, if someone did have six SPs, it follows, if I have got this aspect of the technology right and I claim to be no authority, that they could reserve one for their authorised alias and post under others from the same PC without leaving an audit trail - which is the point I was making and had absolutely nothing to do with what was suspected; which was that someone else from a different computer had traduced chocolate. But now we know it was all his own work anyway. Keep them coming.


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
American Smith is reported to be on his way he deosn't get many starts anyway when everyone is fit, Fletcher is mince and won't be there for long. Talk is Van nIppleboy is past and injury has kicked in and whisper it softly but he wants out. Keane is the talisman and they can't replace him and Scholes looks disinterested. After that the ones you mentioned won't hold a team togehter and they are in decline. They'll finish in the top becuase there is no-one out there who take up the baton and step up a level to us and the chavs.


bromley
June 22, 2005
American, much as I would like to see them in terminal decline, and despite the scousers unbelievable CL win, I still think the same 3 clubs will dominate next season and to write off the mancs is tempting fate. In fact I'd be delighted to see them back in the top 2 next season, edging out the Chavs while we romp it!


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
The Mickey Duff thing Can of Balls. Pathetic.


AmericanGooner
ManYoo2003=Liverpool1990???
June 22, 2005
Question to the forum. Try to be objective. Man Yoo won the title in 2003. So what? Well, even without Glazer, they were on a decline. No one can dispute that. They finished 3rd 3 of the last 4 years. First time ever in the PL they have finished below 2nd. Not only below but far far below. They have been about 15-20 points off the top teams at times by the end of the season. Liverpool ruled football from the late '70s through the '80s and their last title was 1990. A last hurrah that came sandwiched between Arsenal titles. They haven't gotten a sniff of the title since then. Glazer seems to have sped up the pace of the decline. Is 2003 going to be their last title for some time other than the odd FA cup win here or there like their scouser cousins 30 miles from Manchester? Or will they reload and develop another team that will challenge? Fergie says that they have a great corp of youth: Ronaldo, Rooney, Smith, Rio, Fletcher, are all under 25. 2 of them teenagers. Is Fergie right or grasping at straws?


Charlie
June 22, 2005
No doubt who tops my transfer wishes after watching Riquelme in two games at the confederations cup. Absolutely outstanding. He has also been superb for villa real al season, now wonder why barca paid so much for him in the first place. Reyes should play left, and Riquelme, although best in a free role, could be exellent on the right, with two such different widemen we would also have the perfect balance in midtfield, the winger and the playmaker and two musclemen in the middle. Pires and fabregas would be great covers. Not so sure what sriker we should by, Thomason would be a joke, Baptista maybe, if that big time charlie cockyhead van Persie is guilty, we should go for Aimar, but i still think we need real striker.


AmericanGooner
June 22, 2005
babu, Spuds fans go on about that. I'm distanced from it and its old history. Does it make it right? No. **** Does anyone else have any Man Yoo friends or family members? The few I know are totally focused on the Glazer thing and have written off the season already. They don't expect to be in the running for the title and they are cautiously optimistic about finishing 3rd...again. **** "..what song?" hahaha...


babu
June 22, 2005
Just a thought about liverpool "only" finishing 5th and still getting in to the CL... after the 1st world war there was a team that finished 5th in the 2nd division and was then promoted to the 1st... at the expense of the spuds !!! Discuss !


Irish Briant
toomeybr@gofree.indigo.ie
June 22, 2005
Thanks for the prompt reply Bromley,the young guy Graham Stack on loan at Millwall is very highly rated amongst us Irish,though we're bound to be biased!maybe Arsene is awaiting the outcome of his case too,unfortunately somewhat similar to Robin Van Persies.I would not be surprised if Arsene goes for Ructus Recber as he nearly signed him before and at one stage was considered the best keeper in the world about 2yrs ago.Incidentenly Almunia was getting great reviews in Spain before we got him!I suppose Wenger can't get them all right!


bromley
June 22, 2005
Irish Brian, AW obviously doesn't rate Taylor or he wouldn't have been behind that clown Almunia all season. However, got to say Jens looked the business after he got back into the side. Don't think we'll be signing anybody to replace him, but maybe some backup.


david.d
June 22, 2005
if van persie as we all hope is found innocent then his sexual activity is nothing to do with us or more importantly the club's. if he wishes to be unfaithful that is between his wife and himself. no one from the club should be taking the moral ground UNLESS he is convicted of rape. as much as i like the guy it will be impossible for the club to stand by a rapist and the media coverage would be overbearing and critical if we stood by him. i hope the boy is proven innocent i really do. his career is only just beginning.


Irish Brian
toomeybr@gofree.indigo.ie
June 22, 2005
Hi,Arsenal fan in Ireland wanting to know what became of this guy Alan,who said he had it from a first team player that Michael Owen was joining Arsenal last week!?not heard anything from him since have we?or maybe the deal went through its just the papers in Ireland are so far behind over here!I would also like to know why Stuart Taylor never got a chance this season,he always impressed me!anyone out there share my opinion?


bromley
June 22, 2005
It looks like we're going to find out whether Aliadiere is good enough or not, since Dennis is nearly done and I don't think we're going to see RVP anytime soon. But, if AW rates him, maybe he'll make it as long as he can stay fit. I've a feeling he'll get 20-30 games next season and fancy him to stick 10-15 in the onion bag. PS music lovers check out the new Kraftwerk live album.


Eskimo
June 22, 2005
What song?


XXX
June 22, 2005
Torres,Hleb,Kirkland to sing tomorrow


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
Can of Balls why are requesting that someone from Gascony hit me over the head with a tray?


Mickey Duff
June 22, 2005
First time poster on here so excuse me if i am a little nervous.I am a Glasgow Rangers supporter.But Arsenal are my other team.I read all of the forums and like this one best but i have to say that Gunfire is spoiling it.The man is a fool and an embarrassment to Ireland. Come on you Blue noses come on Arsenal.


AmericanGooner
June 22, 2005
kiwipete...i wouldn't mind finding out if other kiwi ladies share the same 'qualities'. Thanks Andy in Singapore and Cannon Balls. Interesting, that classism is involved. Our 'football' was based on Rugby and we didn't even have the forward pass till well into the previous century. Japan calls it soccer as well even though they don't play rugby or american gridiron.


AmericanGooner
June 22, 2005
Rotterdam Gooner can you confirm this? I read this on another forum "Yes she is an Ajax fan, I have been working in Holland for the past few weeks and the papers say her boyfriend was sentenced as part of the mob that attacked RVP and RVP's lawyer also has further concrete evidence on how unreliable the alleged victims story is - aparently it has changed twice...." The story is becoming a soap opera. **** Mee, I understand your concern for the reputation of the club but I can't see where an affair is bringing shame on the club. I would imagine there isn't a club that doesn't have a married player that has had an affair. I also wouldn't be shocked if a board member or two have not had a fling once or twice. Its a moral issue, specifically adultery and I would think a club would want to distance itself from those types of issues. Is there a 'morals clause' in today's contracts? I don't think it meets the 'bringing the game in disrepute' rule that the FA and UEFA has either. If he is exonerated then I expect the club to do nothing. Wenger and the club would be more concerned about his state of mind and if the whole matter has unsettled him enough to distract him and affect his form.


POD
June 22, 2005
If Wenger ever did really ring up to ask why you were not buying a season ticket, you should tell him you wont come until he signs SWP from Man City. Still it's step up from Spurs where apparently if you cancel your ticket David Pleat comes round for tea and cakes and a nice chat. But anything is better than Chelsea where failure to renew is greeted by a late night visit from Roman's pals Sergei and Viktor followed by a one way summer trip to Siberia!


Darren
June 22, 2005
Niall, Rog, Rob K - I do tend to post fom different locations from time to time. This is prob a new ip address as I changed providers. Generally my posts will either come from here or a BT internet account. That post about AW phoning me was garbage from someone professing to be me. I'd love an opportunity to speak to AW and you'd all be the first to know about it if I did. Alas, it appears to be from what can only be described as a ghost in the machine.


Daz
June 22, 2005
Actually, Bernard, I find your idea that there is simply mutual insult-swapping going on here to be bizarre in the extreme. I don't give a flying E*G if chocolate wants to act like a Class A turd - he is one and see his post to Darren below as to how repellent he is in general. Yeah, I've attcked him relentlessly - he's given as good as he's got and not just to me. But given that I was one of the first to remonstrate with PtG for his comments about your kids I would have thought you might understand the qualitative difference. And gay = AIDS isn't a jibe just directed at me.


Darren
June 22, 2005
Choccy - funny you should say that - doing some warbling tonight actually. Well , bass playing!


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Anyway Gungunge i am sure that his Lordship needs your erudite summanational assistance like he needs a hole in the head!. Watch out now Gungunge for window cleaners ladders,whoops,put your bigfoot in it again! and try to avoid running over any black cats when driving home from the pig-farm, screech!! oh no not another one! How about mirrors,crash - clink - tinkle! Blimey another seven years bad luck to add on to all the rest! And watch out for that zip on your flies that you keep catching yourself on !Ouch!!! Just a thought for yourself Tony Soprano once observed, hey, it's not always a crime to shoot a man some of them actually deserve it!


Darren
June 22, 2005
That post about the season ticket being cancelled was not from me. Someone is defo playing games on here. Niall or Rog can you please sort it out??


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Hey, Gungunge who the heck anyway is Can O'Balls that you sent that "erudite summanation" post? Is it B Murphs real name? "Gascon hit that fella on the head with yer tray and be fast about it now." "Wee Mr O'Balls" "No you gobshite a big one! Jeez these foreigners the closer that you get to the med... "


Nico
June 22, 2005
Another interesting striker link...http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=286699&cpid=21&CLID=3&lid=&title=PREM+DUO+EYE+TOMASSON&channel=premiership


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 22, 2005
HKG: The timing was right for EDU. He is married and I suggest his mind was made up for him and his worth was at its highest since he arrived. It appeared nothing to do with money and Mr Wenger appeared to ease his exit to avoid any stress on all parties. It is clear Arsenal need to replace both DB10 and EDU and we hope that HLEB is that person. A ball carrier has not been seen at Highbury for years and only PIRES can be accused of running long distances with the ball from deep defensive positions with the ball in tow. EDU always looked for the early pass and our attacks would generally peter out. I wish EDU well at Valencia.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Summanation of course,what does Erudite Summanations actually mean then Gungunge are they Gaelic or something?


Hong Kong Gooner
June 22, 2005
Sabir - agree totally with your post about how difficult it is to understand why Edu was allowed to leave in the manner that he did.Once again I have to say that as supporters, we are not really aware of all that actually goes on.Perhaps Edu was fed up at the thought of playing second fiddle to Gilberto, although I thought I read a few weeks ago he said that if we'd made him the contract offer at the beginning of the negotiations that we made at the end he'd have stayed.Injury prone and inclined to the odd error, but in my view the guy was class and seemed to love the club.The question now is whether we are going to sign another central midfield player to replace him or go with Cesc and Flamini if Pat or Gilberto are out, which they are bound to be at some stage in the season and possibly at the same time.I'd be inclined to buy a relatively experienced central midfielder, which brings me back to where I started:the sale of Edu seems to make little sense, either from a financial or a team point of view.


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Well,i settle down to watch some cricket and on later on checking in on here i find that Gungunge is catching his dick in the zip of his fly again! JudgeD's 'erudite summanatios!,yeah right Gunge ,only you! The crazed Gungunge then rants,don't mess with him ! Alright donkey-brain, Hey,i thought that you were finished with all this nonsense,just another porkie eh Gungunge? When are you going to explain then what Sophisim means in your own 'erudite summanation'way of course,i can't wait! It will be funnier than Robbie Keanes goal celeb!!!!


Nico
June 22, 2005
Darren, that was surely an opportunity to ask him if he needed your money for his next transfer (or something like that)! So what did you say to him and what did he say back?


Dadubliner
June 22, 2005
hope you're right about aliadiere Sabir and that he will finally make it... this is his very last chance at the club, let's hope he will stay fit... dublin gooner could you please change your nickname to avoid any confusion, thanks in advance...


chocolate gooner
June 22, 2005
Darren … why is it shocking? The club need to sell the seats, Arsene Wenger is undoubtedly an asset and the club used him to call you… so what’s the problem? You’d have preferred it if the call was from Miss Thing from accounts, would you? I’m rather heartened to hear that they doing the marketing quite hard. Who knows maybe your connection with Highbury Royalty flashed up on the computer thingy and the decided to give you the full Arsenal spiel from the master’s mouth… I can’t see what your problem is to be honest. Must be all that bad music going to your head Cheers.


Bernard
June 22, 2005
Damn, I did that last post, clicked on to read it and noticed judge asking me yet again to be courteous by answering him before getting away. Right, point (1) I don't understand your comment: No I can't - no idea what you're talking about. (2) I explained why I said what I said about you implying Chocolate made that post, and why I used the word trickery. (3) Where have I reasserted my opinion that you made unfounded remarks about chocolate's behaviour? I've said numerous times that he since admitted it was him. I've tried to explain my intial views on your post, that's all. (4) Whatever you suspect my underlying motive in that Daz/chocolate post is to try and make them ignore each other and stop insulting each other. If you like by trying to point out that I don't think they're behaving very admirably towards each other - and that goes for both of them. And (5) - I really am off now.


Västerås Gooner
June 22, 2005
Indian//Try this link. You may find something there.http://www.hqfl.dk/


Truegooner
June 22, 2005
It depends on which way you look at it Darren.l I am assuming a club level season ticket is rather costly...There's nowt like personal service!It shows the gaffer cares!


Rob K
June 22, 2005
Darren - that is amazing - are you sure it was a pre-recorded message that was phoned through?


Darren
June 22, 2005
I had an appointment to see a rep about a season ticket on club level but i cancelled due to work commitments.The following day i got a call from AW asking why i had cancelled.Is that desperate or what ? I couldnt believe AW called me to find out my reasons for not making the appointment.Shocking


IndianGooner(Manoj)
Request....
June 22, 2005
I have an urgent request. Can anyone help me by mailing me a nice enlarged and high res pic of the Arsenal 1971 Cannon crest. Just the cannon would be ok too. PLEASE PRETY PLEASE try and get this for me quick. Mail it to me tingudu at gmail.com please. THANKS A BUNCH GUYS!! VVPTBAG.


Bernard
June 22, 2005
Gunfire, must be honest I'm going now so even if I wanted to I'm not going to have the opportunity to do so.


Judge JohnD
June 22, 2005
No, you can't Bernard; because I suspected in the first place that you did not know what you were talking about and quite gently explained to you what it meant. Despite that clarification you, of course have reasserted your opinion that I made unfounded remarks about chocolate's behaviour. Explain yourself.. And, of course, there wouldn't be any underlying motive in that Daz/chocolate post would there? No, we can't see where you are coming from, again.


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
LOL Bernard. You are to be commended for such restraint.


Bernard
June 22, 2005
Gunfire, 'erudite summations'? Blimey ... no I won't get involved.


Gunfire
June 22, 2005
Can of Balls a wee word of advice. Don't try to engage in verbal jousting with Judge JohnD because the stark differences between his erudite summations and your boorish rants shows you up for being a badly educated plank with an inferiority complex not to mention your bigoted little asides about people's nationality. Get back to trying to insult me. You were starting to improve slightly on that one.


Bernard
June 22, 2005
Ok Judge, you really have bored me into submission, so well done. But as I'm so courteous I'll do as you ask. It was your comment "by the way Niall, down the years I have collected some half dozen providers on my one Home PC. What you suspect is not too difficult to achieve despite some of the protestations on here". This came after some people were discussing whether an offensive post by Chocolate was really by him, and Niall had initially said it was but then seemed to change his mind and became much less sure. In other words, I took it as though you were implying (and rather strongly) that Chocolate could have collecting various providers on his computer - hence my use of the term 'trickery' (legitimate on the basis of my definition of the term in this case). I was unable to conceive that it wasn't Chocolate you were implying was responsible for the post, which it turned out he admitted anyway. Can I please not be asked yet another question by you, because I'm finding this utterly tedious - and as I said earlier, you've bored me into submission.


'Dr Ruth'
June 22, 2005
Yes thank you Chocolate, I got the message. You are a twat.


Darren
June 22, 2005
Choccy - I genuinely think you are being a bit too tasteless to be honest. Our relative opinions mean nothing to each other, but I can't honestly remember Daz becoming overly personal with his insults other than mock your cyber personality. It seems strange that when my sisters father-in-law was being hung drawn and quatered by one or two on this forum you were very quick to assume the politically correct moral high ground with that particular argument. However you seem equally quick to start posting insults of an dubious kind yourself. This is merely further proof that puberty still hasn't occured. Daz- EEG's right, let it lie.


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 22, 2005
Sabir: Transfer monies presumably come from an annual transfer pot and perhaps EDU’s reported £6m fee was paid from that particular year’s budget. If HLEB was the only target in this financial year for Mr Wenger I suggest Arsenal would have offered a higher bid by now. However, it does appear there are several targets within our limited budget and the selling clubs all want top dollar. Hopefully we wont blink first and miss out on the player(s) who will make a real difference to our final season at Highbury.


chocolate gooner
June 22, 2005
Bernard… I hear what you say and believe me when I say that I’m not particularly proud of the tactics that I’ve had to resort to using but I really feel that I had no other option. Everyone has his or her limit and I’ve come to mine. This isn’t my finest hour but in my mind I know that I had to go down this route to stop something that was getting totally out of hand. I have no wish to offend anyone, least of all you but this guy isn’t normal and I doubt that even this nuclear option, as it were, will make him stop. This is a guy who bangs on about ‘chocolate’ even when I’m not here. The whole thing just got too stupid. Any ways I hear what you say and even I will have to accept that it is sensible … but what would you have me do?. … let’s hope 'Dr Ruth' got the message. Cheers. Good day all


Judge JohnD
June 22, 2005
Bernard: even the well worn tactics of boring your correspondents into submission with administratortalk is going a bit far here - I think I'll leave your immaculate conception of what to reintroduce means where it belongs. However, perhaps you can scroll down to my previous postings and paste on here my comments that justify you saying "You suggested that it could still have been him, regardless of Niall not seeming to be so sure it was.."……….Mr Balls: so interesting to be critically assessed by one whose contributions on here are a byword for decorum. I, usually, don't mind the opposition supporters coming on here and confirming their lack of class relative to us - LeedsFan excused of course - but there are always exceptions with them as with ourselves. The robust debate, I believe, adds to the enjoyment; even the phantom posters, who are usually not too difficult to spot, confirm the notion that they are not all locked up yet or it must be their afternoon to be let out. However, I must admit to a touch of whimsy at your squeamishness, at being described as irritating, a bully boy and to be lectured on what is unpleasant and edifying by one so steeped in the social graces, so dignified, so chivalrous and temperate. A right tosser in fact. So kind of you to let me know what cudgels I am entitled to take up and that I can have my opinions, it truly concerned me that you might disapprove. And, by the way, it's been mentioned a few times now, and not slyly, and has nothing to do with ps or £s, "it’s a few coffee creams short of the full box."


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 22, 2005
An earlier posting suggested that transfers are delayed to avoid paying unearned wages in the first Summer. Although this could be an issue for most clubs, why is Chelsea appearing to be failing to get their chosen targets? Whereas £11m for HLEB may leave Arsenal a little short in a limited budget and requires some Poker-style bluffing to bring the fee down to more manageable levels, Chelski are not under any such restrictions and they appear to be showing a little irritation at always paying over the odds. Could it be that Peter Kenuseothersmoney has finally been given a limited budget by the mafia boss and is finding it a tad harder to win through? We are all still awaiting that World Superstar to arrive at the Bridge of Bank Notes….. seems so far that money only tempts the lower quality models.


Sabir
June 22, 2005
I still have a problem with the way Arsenal let Edu leave on a free. We haggle for every penny when it comes to buying a player yet we let a valuable asset just run down his contract because we weren't willing to give him an excellent contract. Now the thousands we tried to save on the wages on Edu will be replaced by having to spend millions on a replacement. And it's not as if the new guy wont get wages is it?! I said last season that we should sign Van Bommel on a free, and whoever said that Barca 'stole' him, is right. He would have been ideal. I just read that Aliadiere might renew his contract. Great if he does. I rate the guy. Injuries aside he's got the the talent but if he stays he must realise his potential immediately. I know there's a world of difference between the second string and first team, but some of his goals in the reserves last season after injury were fantastic. And he's bulked up so he could be ready.


Dr Ruth
June 22, 2005
I'm bored now. Going to do some work instead, more fun and less annoying.


Bernard
June 22, 2005
The thing is Chocolate I think you gave a better account of yourself in your duel with Daz before the gay and unborn child stuff. To be honest I think Daz appears unhealthily obsessed with you, and I can't work out why he is either. We all disagree with what others say, some people find others boring, their opinions stupid, and some may reveal enough of their characters to make others even be confident they'd dislike them as people if they were to ever meet. I have some sympathy with you as regardless of all that, I think Daz has gone way over the top with you for a very long time. I don't know how many posts you've done that he hasn't responded by attacking either your opinions or indeed you as a person, but I wouldn't think it could be that many. Now he's clearly a bright guy, which makes it even stranger to me how he has allowed himself to get so wrapped up in his computerised fight with you. I've said before here (or hear, Mee) that he's almost single-handedly made you the forum's central figure. Many others have also rowed with you on various occasions, but he's taken this obsession to a far higher level and I could even understand you mentioning it as bullying yesterday - because it's something that I don't think Daz should feel very proud about himself. But regardless of all that, I don't think you should have come out with what you said over the last day because, also as I've already said, I think you've always (excluding the period you ignored him) pretty well given as good as you've got from him in the past (and I accept that it's often struck me that he's the aggressor), without having to resort to questioning his sexuality and making comments about his unborn child (not that I can remember what it was you said about the latter).


Cannon Balls
June 22, 2005
Well Vince i have heard that a GK is supposed to be close to being signed - because AW sees that to be a priority.But i understand that i t will be cover for Lehmann who will be wearing the No 1 jersey at Highbury next season.I have no idea who the GK may be though.


Vince Ordinaire
June 22, 2005
Well it's an improvement. I was having trouble following the thread of a lot of the earlier posts, but everything seems a bit clearer with the recent ones. If only Nelson Mandela had asked the South African President if he was gay, he might have saved a lot of time and bother. This soap opera is all very well, but doesn't anyone have some transfer speculation? I don't care if it's made up, as long as I don't have to make it up myself I'm quite happy to ponder. Thanks in advance.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Ralph,it's mainly financial, and with the optimistic hope thrown in to the mix that they will wake up one bright and sunny morning down at the 'lane tht time forgot' to find that they have the next Rooney on their books! Levy is interested only in making money out of Spuds,that's why he tried to sell the outfit to Abramovich. The situation with the Spuds 'director of football' is now becoming a farce with Levy being only offered £1million after originally £2million was on the table. Levy wanted 10! or Parker and some cash, but the revelation that the EPL would not take any action over the tapping up scuppered that plan. Parker went though to the Bar-Codes having no desire to go to Spuds and have to listen to moronsliving in a time-warp prattling on about Glen and Ozzy,and hey, who could blame him????


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 21, 2005
Now, now guys and gals! We are all Mr Wenger's children, so mere family spats should be forgotten at the end of each day. I have failed miserably to bring you back to discussing tabloid speculation and opinions on players and managers etc. Please take a moment to breathe deeply and smile then make this forum beautiful once again.


East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
Excellent - no sooner have I posted about Chocolate's self-awareness and he makes a ****ing top class David Brent-style post comparing his 3 years of "torture" at the hands of Daz to the struggles of Nelson Mandela. That is ****ing brilliant Chocolate although a bit of a rip off of Brent's line about Jesus not being popular either in his day. I salute you though. You are back!!!


Dr Ruth
June 21, 2005
Now I am seriously worried - you are comparing your plight to Nelson Mandelas. Er being locked up for the majority of one's life in a small prison cell on Robben Island hardly compares to being insulted by Daz!


chocolate gooner
June 21, 2005
True gooner… I totally respect your view and if I’m honest I’m not exactly proud of myself right now, but needs must. I’ve tried everything… an appeal to the guy’s better nature (he doesn’t have one), ignoring him, answering his questions… nothing works. Even Mandela resorted to sabotage in the face of an intransigent Apartheid regime. I think that 3 years of taking it on the chin is enough… Cheers.


East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
As your second sentance had a question mark at the end, can I assume you asked for my opinion? If so, its not just Daz I haven't told to tone it down. I have only once objected to anything said on here and that was by Phil The Gooner about Bernard's kids. Its not really outrage either. I just think some things are cheap and dirty. The stuff you have been coming out with has been low rent and frankly I dont give a **** whether you ask for my opinion. You will get it anyway. You have got over-excited and like a lot of unhinged people you dont know where the lines are. You have started to dribble and grin at those around you, while at the same time failing to recognise the open mouths. You carry on though. Self awareness has never been one of your strengths.


Dr Ruth
June 21, 2005
Chocolate, I would take a guess and say that you are a tad homophobic. You are using Daz as an excuse to air your rather poisonous and nasty opinions, ones that you are entitled to hold but nevertheless are still offensive.


chocolate gooner
June 21, 2005
Dear Dr Ruth… fear not. The game, the rules, bad light or good.. I’m past caring to be honest. Like I said, the moderators can ban me if they feel that I’m transgressing.. I don’t feel I am but what do I know? All I want is to get to the bottom (geddit? He, he) of Daz’s obsession with my posts. That all. C’est tout. Cheers.


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 21, 2005
Spuds are buying up every young Englishman that looks available, rather than bring kids through its academy. Do you think it is to bolster the team in hope it provides for future Premiership success or is it financial speculation to merely raise future revenues on the assumption that an English player is always more expensive than a foreign one?


Truegooner
June 21, 2005
Nothing personal Chocolate.You want to ask "legitimate questions" of any forum user you go right ahead.If you (or anybody else on here )persists with such stereotypical usage , ie "Is it your sexual orientation that means that you want to scratch my eyes out just because I dared to contradict you? Why do you post on here, eh Queenie?" Please understand that you ARE being offensive and I do feel you are being disingenuous to say that you are not,simply because your ire in this instance is directed at Daz.


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 21, 2005
Contracts: We all know that the agent earns his fee across the term of any contract and starts to feel itchy when the term gets past half way. To ensure a player is not unsettled by the greed of an agent the contracts should either automatically increase with loyalty or be renegotiated EVERY YEAR. If the player ever decides NOT to take an example £5k increase per week for an extra year on the end of the original contract term, it would signal the start of any trouble early and therefore give management sufficient time to retain some control over future staffing plans.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Judge, because although it was mentioned by me, then a joke by Decaf, then a mention by Fish Bar - all the while up to that point Daz had ignored it (from memory, and he confirmed he'd initially been avoiding it a while ago) and Chocolate was away. Something else got them (Chocolate and Daz) started on it again, and I find it conceivable that it was you. If it wasn't fine - and I've already said that - but I can conceive it was you after your post on the subject. On the second point, Niall had already said it might not be Chocolate who did that post (after initially saying it was), so clearly there was something unusual about it's source. You suggested that it could still have been him, regardless of Niall not seeming to be so sure it was - which suggested that you felt Chocolate may have been up to some form of trickery to raise doubts over whether it was from him. In that case, I'd even term using a different computer in my wide definition of trickery. Now I really hope that satisfies your curiosity over what I said, as I don't wish to be responsible for turning you into an obsessive on these matters.


Dr Ruth
June 21, 2005
But Chocolate the questions you are asking are really silly and only show you in a bad light. You are trying to play a game the rules of which you do not understand. I am reassured, however, to read that you are at peace with your sexuality because I was beginning to fear the worse.


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Ok Bernard, the answerphone on down at the electrical engineers, I get it; you initiate a topic by making mention of what Sophism is not and Fishbar posts a couple of incomplete dictionary definitions, then you ascribe it's reintroduction to one that points out a contradictory reference and a complete definition. Shame, really, that although you can see that without my observations it might not have started again, you fail to conceive that without your comment my observations would never have been made. I wonder why? You then criticize my sad actions, the pejorative sense of course, in relation to choco - when you have, in fact, made an embarrassing cods of what I said - in fact attributing the opposite meaning - sorry Mee, couldn't keep it up. I've made it clear what I meant regarding multiple SP capability, why don't you make it clear what - "But didn't judge even try to divert the blame back to Chocolate by saying he might have done some kind of technilogical trickery?" - followed up with "Oh well, it was Chocolate after all. Still quite sad that judge should make that kind of comment though." - means? Because defining 'trickery' does not seem to be what it is about.


Dr Ruth
June 21, 2005
Chocolate, why are you so concerned about Daz's sexuality? In my professional capacity I would say that your obsession with this betrays a deep rooted problem - have you not quite come to terms with your own sexuality?


chocolate gooner
June 21, 2005
EEG… the day I need your opinion I’d ask for it. When have you ever told Daz to tone it down? Save your lectures and your outrage for someone that cares. Daz, I’m still waiting for my answers. He said I was ignoring him… not anymore I'm not. Cheers.


Dr Ruth
June 21, 2005
Chocolate, are you actually mentally ill? You seem to have totally lost your grip on reality. I find it quite worrying that you aren't receiving any sort of professional help.


Truegooner
June 21, 2005
Chocolate, just because your trying to insult Daz does not make your last post any less homophobic and therefore generally offensive.Please stop.


Chippy's Chisler
June 21, 2005
Surely not Guti? Why leave Edu go on a free and then spend 8-12m on an older bench warmer. Cannot see it.


Bogdan K
June 21, 2005
RichardE, Ozgoon: Thanks, Swans it is then.


East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
Daz - I would leave it well alone. The man is making a complete and utter **** of himself. Chocolate - the funny thing is that you think this is "playing the same game - only better when its because you were so ****ing trounced at the old game that you have gone doolally and resorted to something a million miles away. And you dont even realise it. I guess its about "nuance"!


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Your Lordship may i make a few observations on your summing up to the jury? I did not suggest that you were not entitled to take up the cudgel of rightious self-indignation ( i can actually think of no one on here better suited to the role) against Chocolate, but rather that i found your persistent reminding Daz of Chocolates past statements and your alleged indiscretions on various subjects irratating. And to me smacked of bullyboy type tactics. Do you recall Daz when Chocolate said that the world could be square if you stand upside down on top of a mountain in Brazil? Followed by some sly insinuation that Chocolate was a 10 pence short of a pound type of jibe. This type of refering to Chocolate in this second person idiot type of syndrome was not in my view very edifying and appeared to have a rather gloating unpleasentness about it to me. I have already stated that i am not disputing your opinions only the way that i see them coming across, and to be honest i do not really care about Sophism, or sophism, nor about acquiring a bigger dictionary to learn. Gunfire though claims to understand it and i am expecting him to settle the argument with one of his well thought out and insightful posts ,but hey Judge i will hazard a guess your honour that it will only start of another endless argument.Bernards rubbing his hsands in gleeful anticipation! Unless that is of course that Gunfire is telling porkies again and in fact does not know anything about the subject at all??? Nah surely not!


NICK
June 21, 2005
Guti? Washed up player well past his best, a poor mans Pires if you will. Great players dont sit on the Real bench for years happily taking their wages and hardly ever playing. If Guti was that good he'd have quit Madrid long ago and proved himself elsewhere. Why do we want another creative midfielder who cant tackle, wont track back and wont enjoy the physical nature of the prem? Guti is way to similar to Pires and Fabregas. If we are buying an attacking midfielder it should be SWP. He's got pace aggression, real hunger and is prem proven. If not we should be looking at another powerful all round midfielder to compete with Vieira and Gilberto and really beef up the sqaud. We were out muscled to many times last season. We should have gone for Van Bommel on a free. He was the steal of the summer for Barca.


Daz
June 21, 2005
Don't think I've ever slipped as low as you, you nasty little fool, chocolate.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Judge, I'm not convinced that saying - or implying - it was you who started it off again was a factual error. I certainly think without your obsevations it is conceivable (to me anyway) it wouldn't have started again. And as far as I'm aware, neither of us have defined trickery in this instance, so we might be using the word in different contexts so again I'm not sure we or you should be saying that was a factual error either. I'm very glad you won't be calling me as a witness though.


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Bernard: that last one from me was to the one before from you and I really must get going. However, time, just, to say that there was little implication or misuse - just factual errors that seemed surprisingly careless to this old snob. And I think 'responding' is absolutely the correct word. I have doubts about ever letting you perform before me as an expert witness.


Maurice
June 21, 2005
Guti wants to come to Arsenal, and I'll say to get him as soon as we can.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Or indeed courtesy.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Judge, I thought I said I've had the couresy to reply to you.


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Bernard: try being a bit more gracious - air-conditioning not working?


Nico
June 21, 2005
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=286610&cpid=8&CLID=3&lid=&title=Aliadiere+in+deal+talks&channel=Premiership....Aliadiere to stay? The kids bumped into him in North London the other day strolling around with a rather 'fit' or was it 'buff' girl friend. He seemed quite relaxed and happy and not looking like someone off to another club in France.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Judge, in what way have I been ganging up on you? I've had the courtesy to respond when you address me, that's all. Even the last time when it seems I misused the word 'trickery' and perhaps implied it was you who started the sophist thing up again, even though you couldn't bear to let Fish Bar's post go without bringing the subject up again - whoops, sorry; make that: responding to Fish Bar about it.


Darren
June 21, 2005
There was a very good article in one of the papers last week about how fashionable it is to knock every footballer who gets into trouble by wheeling out the tired old headline of " xxx brings shame onto the tarnised image of football" etc, whilst dismissing any other sportsmans misdemeanors as simply a case of them being young men doing what young men do. The case given was of two first class cricketers who had been caught racing each other at over 110 mph on one of the motorways. The article went on to say that barely any copy space had been given to this act whereas, had it been footballers it would have been another case of the game being dragged through the gutter. I actually think the press have gone easy on us regarding RvP, probably more through the threat of libel than any symapthy. Rob K adn I don;t agree on much when it comes to footie but he's right in so much as RvP, if proven not guilty, should have every right to stay at AFC and carry on playing for us. Obviously if found guilty it's fait accompli I'm afraid adn the club are doing the right thing by remaining schtum publicly. I'm sure they are in daily contact with RvP's representatives adn at this stage that's all that matters. Now Rob, about this Lehmann fella......


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Well Mee, it seems an outside lavvy, a front room, leaving school at sixteen - grammar school I admit - with no further education or PhD have made me all too obnoxious and intellectually reprehensible for Mr Balls' liking. I'm devastated…. Mr Balls: your bully reference indicates a lack of self-awareness that is mind-boggling. I don't give a toss if you, chocolate and Bernard want to gang up on me and I'm pretty sure that most around here will recognize choco's delight in provoking responses from his targets. But you keep watching out for him - he likes to rely on the odd aside to credit his false premises, because there is never much more. The fact that you don't seem to understand what a Sophist is but do understand the common noun sophist, whilst I understand both and am prepared to debate it, does not I assure you, make me intellectually pretentious. It just means that I contribute a valid point to the proceedings and that choco and your goodself need to consult a bigger dictionary and to throw your shovels away….. Daz: I'll be back - even if Mr Balls sends the head teacher around - but now I must get a new battery. Agree, though, the chocolate character always threatened to implode.


Ozgoon
antbotak@yahoo.com.au
June 21, 2005
I would go for the Swans game against te Kangeroo.....great stadium and a fast furious and physical game full of excitement.....but thats just my opinion.having grown up in North London and ventured to Oz 10 odd years ago I found rugby league rather 2 dimensional after the scintilating skills of woodcock through to Henry. Fit and tough the Rugby league players are...true....but it seems to be all physical and not much skill....there are exceptions.The Swans are also Red and White and you can where your Home shirt without anyone batting an eyelid......"COME ON YOU RIPRRROARING RRRRREDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSS" PTBAG


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Well Judge it wasn't trickery then, fine. And you didn't address your views on sophism to Chocolate, fine also.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Does RVP play for Chelsea now?


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
"Not unless you have some kind of inferiority complex, perhaps" Spot on JJD. So Mee "Nobody can dispute the fact that his behaviour has brought shame to himself and the club" I for one doubt it. You have contradicted yourself. If in our daily duties we are aroused by good looking we (men)also in many instances stray. Why should football players be different? If a man strays does ti bring shame on his company, hospital, bridge club? I for one do not think our club is shamed by players sleeping with women other than their wives. No matter what RVP does the James Lawton's of this world wil use it as an excuse to attack our club and football players in general. The thing is we never here about journalists piccadiloes.


Mr. Balls
10 Downing st Westminsister London
June 21, 2005
Well your Lordship i did refer to that post that you mention in regard to the intellectual snobbery,or was it robbery? But the play-ground-bully input was gleaned from many of your rantings over a period of time in which you kept nudging Daz, who let's face it needs little encouragement, to recall past observations or statements that Chocolate had posted on here. I just felt that your approach was one of ganging up on Chocolate, who i have had a few altercations with myself, but however with out resorting to trying to use others to help me to attack him.I posted to him that i agreed with his remarks about your post about him and how your 'lecture' on Sophism came over to me personally, i posted on what the word meant to me to Daz, which is; an argument apparently correct but actually factually invalid. And i noted that you dismissed this meaning and went into a somewhat convulated discourse about Stoics and beard stroking robed and sandle wearing muses in a rather condesdending manner. Which i perceived your honour to be intellectual snobbery. That was my opinion and having reread the posts i reiterate it. I make no observation on whether you are right or wrong in your premise on Sophism or Philosophy - only on the manner in which you conduct your courtroom proceedings. I am happy to leave it to the jury to decide who is right or wrong on that. Must go now though judge to change into my Superman outfit and go and fight for truth and justice in the world -why is it that you can never find a phone booth when you need one...


Mee
June 21, 2005
Judge: The front room may well be posh, although I doubt Victoria Beckham has one. I grew up in a house with both a toilet and a lounge, so my dropped ‘aitches’ condemned me to a life attempting to avoid Cyril Connolly’s ‘pram in the hall’ - I failed and ended up here.


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Bernard: did you think you had recognized a bandwagon rolling by then. I'll try to bear in mind Mee's wise words here as you have mentioned your technological challenges previously. Now, if someone had several SPs they would not be attempting trickery to post as themselves from one or any of them. The trickery would be to post as you from one and represent yourself as another poster or posters from any of the others. So my reference had no relevance to chocolate gooner posting, but to someone who might have been traducing him. How sad is that? See how easy it is to get things wrong when the old mist descends? Also, I find your position on the second debate plain silly; you reintroduced it and I pointed you in the direction of the BBC vote which included the founding Sophist and a whole load of pre-Socratic philosophers who seem to be ineligible according to chocolate and the lecturer you rely on; Fishbar posted an incomplete dictionary definition which I enlarged on. At no stage did I address chocolate, but of course he elected to join in, which is fine by me. Now whilst I acknowledge participation in the debate, to suggest I reintroduced it is incorrect. OK, Mee? Front Room = posh?


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Parkerknoll, fair point. Fully agree with RobK and Cannon Balls about the 'morality' of the issue.


RichardE
June 21, 2005
For Bogdan K. Of those the Swans game is probably the best spectacle particularly if you haven't seen aussie rules before. It has the added bonus of being at the SCG which has a lot of tradition and atmosphere. The other two you mention are both rugby league games, both with a strong team against a weaker one. I'd probably lean towards the Roosters v Rabbits and if you haven't seen Australian rugby league it's worth a look as it's on a different level to the UK game.


Rob K
June 21, 2005
Dont know where this moral high ground grandstanding is coming from. If RVP is not charged he should have no blemish on his record.


Parkerknoll Gooner
June 21, 2005
Bernard - from what I've read the alledged "rape" took place in the hotel room after trawling around several clubs, if she was "raped" at the club I would suggest she would never have joined them at the hotel. I noticed that one of the sundays printed her version of events at the weekend, I wonder if she was payed for the story, either way it reflects poorly on her and I don't think the judge will be overly impressed.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Mee,if RVP is found to have not raped that girl and released then there is nothing to stop him from returning and playing for Arsenal. His wife is saying that she is sticking by him and is obviously aware of the circumstances concerning the allegations involved ,so any sexual or unfaithful to her matters are for them to sort out,and not AW. Moral viewpoints on sexual behavior between consenting adults are not a matter for anyone other than the participants to concern themselves with. If found guilty then that is a different matter,it then means that RVP would be a convicted criminal,playing in the game at present, and not a transgressor of someone elses moral beliefs, which are not of any concern really in a football related sense. Come on now where do you start with that malarkey trying to fit it into football???


Off the Mark
Gynae James
June 21, 2005
Anything to report - you are our best and most reliable source in recet times (that's if you're still employed at the same place and AFC still use that place too)


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Mr Balls: not too difficult to work out the pod you came from, is it? Mind you, I did not mind the description at all, kindled an image of a C5th BC Nico. Now, the post you referred to mentioned videoing ones kids as they grow up, sort of concluded a debate with Bernard on who reignited a topic and addressed Fishbar, and indirectly Bernard, on an incomplete dictionary definition that Fishbar tossed into the conversation. None of that was addressed to chocolate or seems to be pretentious claptrap or intellectual snobbery. Not unless you have some kind of inferiority complex, perhaps. Of course, there could be a reason for that. Anyway, I ask you again to confirm that all those subjects are the cause of your consternation - just so that I understand you correctly. As regards school playground bullies, you, of all people, should recollect that chocolate's first stumblings on here were calculated to create a reputation by harassing and ridiculing this feeble, geriatric pensioner. Not at all as you mendaciously care to portray it. The genesis of our relationship owes all to his youthful disrespect for his elders and, no, I better leave the next bit out - no point in giving you the obvious ammo is there. I guess he did not anticipate the perseverance and boredom threshold he was up against - and on the whole, I thought that our relationship was one both fully understood. He, subsequently, widened his repertoire by identifying other posters to harangue. But, I don't need to explain all that to you, do I? Your transparent efforts to reinvent yourself up as the Caped Crusader of the Forum are based on a miscalculation as to the facts and your own credibility - a familiar theme around here. Why don't you try to elucidate why it is arguable to understand cynicism as philosophy but not sophism?


Bogdan K
June 21, 2005
I wonder if any of our antipodean posters could offer me some tourist advice. I will be in Oz for the first time in August and fancy catching some sport while in Sydney (along with the wife and kids). It looks like the options are Rabbitohs v Roosters at the Aussie Stadium, Wests Tigers v Bulldogs at the Telstra Stadium or Swans v Kangaroos at the SCG. Which would offer the best spectacle?


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
That last post from me was for Andy in Singapore.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Actually Soccer is an alteration and shortening of 'Association Football' and Rugby is nothing to do with it. Rugby was in England always called rugby . However the Americans call their hands on the ball game 'football' and use Soccer to differentiate between that sport and their own more popular,in the States, Gridiron 'foootball'. Soccer may have been a term used in England to describe the pro-game at the time that you refer, to seperate the sport from amatuer football.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Mee, I've said before that I don't think the club or Wenger have any right to demand that Arsenal players remain faithful to their wives. If he didn't rape the girl, that's all he's done. Very stupid that he did it in a public place (the club, I presume) but I'd bet my mortgage that he's not the first Arsenal player to have sex with someone other than his current wife (anyhow Merson admitted doing so, and our resident historian Exiled probably has a full list somewhere); and he most definitely won't be the last to do so either. I don't think the club should take any action against him if he's found not guilty of rape (if he is, his career could well be finished anyway due to the length of the prison sentence that's possible - I think I read somewhere 12 years). It's his wife who has far more to be angry about than Arsenal if he's not guilty of rape but had sex with whoever it was.


Vicky Crescit
June 21, 2005
The full fixture programme for the 2005/06 season will be posted at 10:00am this Thursday, 23rd June, on this web site:- http://www.premierleague.com/


Mee
June 21, 2005
Whether Robin Van Persie is found guilty or not, It will be interesting to see the response from Arsenal. If he is found guilty, his prison sentence will negate the need for Arsenal to add to the punishment. If he is found not guilty - they have a different problem. Nobody can dispute the fact that his behaviour has brought shame to himself and the club, and personal saddness, I imagine, to his new wife. Critics will say that this kind of offence makes the Bowyer/Woodgate affair look like a caution for speeding, but I disagree. The nature of Bowyer’s offence (I acknowledge that he was found not guilty) is more difficult for me to comprehend than a rape accusation simply because the escalation from alcohol induced promiscuity to a more serious sexual attack is grounded in male physiology. Men swinging atop the branches of the Darwinian tree have an irresistable sexual drive which is normally restrianed by the conventions of the society they live in - but who amongst us can claim, if we found ourselves in Van Persie’s position, that we would have acted differently? (I am assuming the sex was in some way consensual here), and who can claim to be less than aroused by encounters with attractive women during the daily course of their lives? On the other hand, when I see an Asian person in the high street, I do not have the slightest desire to attack him because that behaviour isn’t driven by the demands of my physiological make-up. I am perfectly aware that this is a highly subjective and dangerously simplistic thesis, but I offer it as a diversion to the endless sound of gunfire and melting chocolate.


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 21, 2005
Suggest the GUTI rumour will be encouraged by Mr Wenger in his quest for a cheaper HLEB. Either/OR for me as replacement for EDU. I cannot imagine both players in same team. Stuttgart awaits our next move!


Abu
June 21, 2005
Chocalate Gonner - you're not even funny - move over - your time is up - Abu is back - long live Abu.


Andy In Singapore
June 21, 2005
BBC not BCC


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Oh well, it was Chocolate after all. Still quite sad that judge should make that kind of comment though.


Andy In Singapore
June 21, 2005
Gunfire - Thanks but I am aware that other countries playing variant codes of Football refer to our game as Soccer. However I was answering AG's question as to why old English football footage as shown in the Arsenal History DVD (BBC, NewsReels etc) refered to our game as "Soccer" when today almost nobody in the game in England uses that term. My guess is that it was due to the Rugby supporting middle and upper class dominance in the BCC and News Reel companies (just listen to those accents). FPTBAG.


Darren
June 21, 2005
I love it when Bernard comes over all ipso facto!


Bernard
June 21, 2005
EEG and Cannon Balls, the reason I asked was EEG saying "except for a meaty fish like tuna or a hippo". Ipso facto, I took it at first that he was calling both tuna and hippo a meaty fish. Clearly I took it the wrong way (almost reminds you of semi colons) and he meant that tuna was the meaty fish, while adding a non-fish to stress the point. Apologies. Judge, I'm afraid you've lost me. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. It was questioned who started the sophist-philosophy debate second time round after I'd mentioned what the philosophy lecturer said. Daz has already said he ignored it, Decaf cracked a joke and left it at that, and Chocolate wasn't around at the time. Therefore, I suppose the finger can be pointed at me for simply saying what the lecturer said, but as that was being ignored for one reason or another by the main participants in the first debate (Daz and Chocolate), presumably someone else was more responsible. Good to hear from Niall that Chocolate probably wasn't responsible for that post, not that I can remember what was said, but it seemed to offend some people. But didn't judge even try to divert the blame back to Chocolate by saying he might have done some kind of technilogical trickery? If so, that's really quite sad.


Mee
June 21, 2005
Being described by †he judge as ‘low calorie, reduced fat confectionary‘ must qualify as one of the most restrained put-downs ever seen on this forum. He‘s quite correct; chocolate melts in the hand, not in the mouth.


Fried Slice
June 21, 2005
If graveson was keeping Guti out of the RM side i cant see AW even thinking about signing him.Infact i cant see him signing anybody.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Your Lordship if i may i would draw your attention to my remarks that i found your post to be one of intellectual snobbery. That seems obvious enough to explain what part of your post i objected too.Hardly rocket science but it would appear above your rather big-head. I have never liked school-play-ground type bullies either - and i am afraid old boy that you come over very much on here like one. Why don't you try picking on someone on your own instead of ganging up with others??? No balls for it perhaps?All of this cringing,do you remember Daz when Chocolate said this, and oh can i jog your memory Daz when Chocolate claimed that pigs might fly.Hey Judge Dreadful it's a good job that cows can't because we would have nearly more crap descending on us from above than your posts on here produce!


harlow steve
June 21, 2005
Well it was up at 5pm this morning and in work at 7.45... Took some time to look up any news on the WWW... First stop News Now feed... You need to look at this first in the morning... First up Sporting Life "Guti wants Gunners switch 7.55am" then that followed by Team Talk, BBC, Sky Sports and the Daily Mail, all just feeding off the back of one rumour... The appetite for football news with our daily papers is all consuming, any old gossip will do to fill their web sites and column inches... Barcelona want Henry, oh! no they don't, oh! yes they do! Is this what the English media has brought itself down too... Ok! a bit of harking back to the old days... I seem to remember (maybe some of you will help me out here) other than World Cup and Euro Champs summers, the football world went to sleep during the close season, the sports pages of newspapers were empty of football stories, the summer for non-football used to seem like forever, until the new season started... Now when the football has finished, we get rumours, we get players followed all over the world on their holidays, journalists just waiting for them to slip up, catch them playing around, getting drunk, shopping... We get the Sun telling us about the third world, the poorer countries, yet turn over the page and they are glorifying in another footballer buying his 10th super car or his second £3m house, how they need to earn another 25K a week, when they are already on 75K a week... The bloody football world has gone mad... Fans buying up over 200 homes so they can qualify for a season ticket to watch their team... Don't get me wrong, I still love the game, however, some of the gloss is fast disappearing... Why does Arsenal bother will a public relations Dept, they don’t seem to do anything, to actually shed Arsenal in a good light… Whenever something negative appears about the club, the public relations Dept goes to lunch…


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Irish Rebublic footbal supporters are not arrogant though are they??? Nah!


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
Kiwipete I mean arrogant in the context of the Lions Tour. NZ are cock sure they'll whitewash the Lions. Southern Hemisphere teams and their supporters are very arrogant when it comes to certain sports (cricket & rugby)as they have had a litany of victories over others to back them up. I would venture there is certain national bonding in it as well as both Oz and NZ are relatively new countries.Andy in countries where "football" Gaelic, Australian or American is played Association Football is always called Soccer.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Dubliner,you are not forced to read posts that are not football related,i read every one on here,unlike your fellow countryman Gungunge,and other boards are not all football related and have similar fractious exchanges between posters. Gungunge posts anti Arsenal posts on here, lately pro-Abramovich ones, and attempted yesterday to start a debate on whether or not RVP was guilty of rape he is an odious racist cretin, proven by his remarks about Europeans and how he perceives them - if he were a countryman of mine i would disown him.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Know nothing about but either way the same Gungunge.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
So Gungunge your sticking to football related subjects,hmm..that's just a cop-out for you not revealing that the truth is that you no nothing about Sophism right dummy??? I see that you have caught your dick in the zip of your fly again Gungunge with your stupid jibe about arrogant New Zealanders.You are a very silly man. Now i admit i have used the expression antipodean when refering to Kiwi's but not that they were arrogant,which anyone who as been to New Zealand knows,then again though according to you squire anyone who is not Irish is arrogant, racist or dodgy - especially the nearer that you get to the Med -right Gungunge???? But like Sophism and Football, RVP's case and other matters too numerious to mention - just another subject that you know sod all about - but just have to open your big mouth to make inane unsubjective comments on - right squire??? Grow up will you for Christs sake. What is wrong with you???


Daz
June 21, 2005
Yes but to be fair to me (which I always like to be) those constant pinpricks were directed solely at the internet persona of 'chocolate gooner' that he himself cultivated quite assiduously. I'm kind of startled by his new "patient man pushed too far" approach. He came blasting back into the debate with his usual elegance and retraint yesterday. Like I say, if it helps any I'm happy to concede that sophism isn't philosophy for the sake of reducing the ill-feeling which is getting a little too toxic.


kiwipete
June 21, 2005
Daz...Well those constant pin pricks have taken their toll.. probably relaxing in the jacket with the arms at the back this very minute and judging by the tone of some on here he could soon have company. How did the driving go..? should I check out that Britain's worst drivers next time it airs.


Daz
June 21, 2005
Where did I say that, Kiwi? I'm happy to carry on chatting with him, just think that if we're taking it to the level that he finds it necessary to resort to that level of abuse then things are getting a little out of hand. And I did include a little mea culpa for that plus - as I said - I'm not whinging about it. But anytime chocolate wants to discuss the social structure of favelas in the Brazilian region or Cygan's place in the top five CDs (sixth) I'd be happy to oblige. He seems to take (usuallly jokey) references to personal lives very very seriously though and that's where we (and the forum) get into trouble


kiwipete
June 21, 2005
Cobber...I'm a bit confused here... you spent months pleading with Chocolate to stop ignoring you and NOW you want him to stop chatting with you...? Gunfire .."arrogant antipodeans" surely not you must have us confused with the rabble from across the Tasman. Good call Bernard throw in what ever you fancy or more to the point what ever is available. OK ...admittedly this could be a close call but NZ Sauvig etc or that beauitiful mixture the Sudanese serve up the ox blood mixed with ashes. Thanks American for the Guantanemo info....the way you ressurect that Kiwi girlfriend seems like there is still a flame smouldering.


Daz
June 21, 2005
Judge J: what you missed was chocolate losing the plot to the extent that he accused me of a) being gay and having AIDS (and then denying that making an explicit link between gayness and AIDS was homophobic). b) not being the father of the baby that's due to be born this week, which was either conceived in a petri dish or fathered by another media type. Choco's implication was that I deserved this little piece of venom having pushed him past breaking point by continuing to argue with him. While I think he ignores his own role in our liittle clash of personalities and while I think anybody has the liberty to say anything they want to me on an internet forum, it was slightly more distasteful than the usual exchanges on whether sophism is philosophy. Normally he attempts to occupy the moral high ground but he came charging down from it pretty fast in a way which made "honest joe" look like a frankly laughable description.


Andy In Singapore
June 21, 2005
American Gooner - My understanding is that the term 'soccer' was and is still used by Rugby fans to describe the round ball game as an alternative to its proper name of Association Football (The other Footballs being Rugby League and Rugby Union). In the past the BBC and News Reels being somewhat middle and upper class institutions (and therefore more Rugby inclined) used the term soccer in a slightly patronising way. Of course given that our kind of Football is by far the most popular and the only variant that actually involves extensive use of the foot it is now felt strongly that the word Football should refer to our game. FPTBAG.


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
dublin gooner: must apologise if I created another chore for you. That scroll bar hard to find? To your dismay, I am sure, you have to realise that it's been going on like this for the past five or six years. So, maybe, you should rethink your conclusion. But do stick around, there's room for all and forum policemen are always a welcome species.


Judge JohnD
June 21, 2005
Missed all that today whilst trying to fix a dodgy battery and a melted-down alternator. Looking at choco and Mr Balls I'm left wondering what is imitating what. I see that choco, or whomsoever, elects to ignore me now and beats a hasty retreat as Mr Balls opens up a new front. Well, for your information choco that's what I call tactics and, incidentally, I have never believed that Bmurph, or PtG for that matter, ever left the forum - just your little joke? Interesting how all these guys always have backgrounds that preclude them from ever visiting Highbury - they might as well be sitting on an oil rig out in The Gulf of Mexico……. Mr Balls: you don't say what aspect of my post offended your sensibilities - was it the reference to nouns? Surely it couldn't be - a little simple grammar for one so erudite? And there's me wondering what Mee's living and sitting rooms are all about - are they anything like my front room? You do sound very much like a reduced fat, low calorie confectionery so I suppose it's entirely possible. Maybe Niall should get some DNA from the three of you. or is it two, or one sent off to Gynae James at the same time he is checking the IPs and SPs; by the way Niall, down the years I have collected some half dozen providers on my one Home PC. What you suspect is not too difficult to achieve despite some of the protestations on here……….Bernard: I understood the question to mean, who started it second time around…….choco: I hesitate to address you, if it is, but I wouldn't want you to think that your dishonest debate has gone unnoticed or that any innocent bystanders might fall for your shyster sophistry. For example, converse: I have given you the very quote from Peter Mark Roget saying the object of his own undertaking was the converse of a dictionary - this is not Bernard's lecturer - think decaf here - but the man himself. I even set a multiple part question when Bernard was again being seduced by you - you failed miserably - indicating you didn't know what it meant. I can prove there is a difference between sophist and Sophist, just as there is between cynic and Cynic; just go to any reputable dictionary, those that have about 300,000 definitions should do it, and you will see that with the word capitalized, i.e. a proper noun, they are defined as ancient philosophical movements. Strategy/Tactics has been covered a few times now and I realize you don't get it. However I was recently checking out Hansard, there's posh for you Mr Balls, and came across the following which seemed to be not a million miles away from your present condition and showed you were about as bright as your, sorry Mr Balls', mates, have a decko……….. "Lord Rea: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has done us all, and particularly the Government, a very good turn by initiating this debate and for outlining the problem so clearly. The recent publication of the Government, to which many noble Lords have referred, the Alcohol Harm Reduction Strategy, shows the Government's concern. ……………..Lord Mancroft: My Lords, the whole House is grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, for giving us the opportunity to debate this important subject today. It is important because alcohol misuse is a very serious health problem with significant social costs because there is an increasing level of alcohol-related crime and public disorder and it is an enormous and increasing burden on the public purse……….. My two opening comments are general. First, it is not a strategy paper; it is entirely tactical. Perhaps one of the reasons chocolate gooner makes such a meal of things is that he has not learnt the difference between strategy and tactics. The paper is a collection of individual ideas. I think the right reverend Prelate described it as "piecemeal". I do not think he meant that critically, but he is right. Some of the ideas are good, some not so good, but the paper contains no overall strategy except to try to reduce the harm caused by alcohol. It does not really need a strategy paper to conclude that that is a laudable aim."………There, you see, noble lords, Thesaurus himself, must be better than Bernard's lecturer, and take heed of The Lord Mancroft's words, hope you're better soon.


AmericanGooner
June 21, 2005
Fred, as I've always said, Man Yoo only target the ones they fear. They tried to intimidate Bobby as well a while back. Reyes scares them [swear word]less. More than a few Man Yoo fans have admitted as much. A man yoo friend of mine thinks if we sold him he'd flourish elsewhere.


Fred
June 21, 2005
Just got my copy of the End of season review. Watched it watched it again. Reyes has got to stay! He is the business.


AmericanGooner
June 21, 2005
Yorkshire, is the schedule out yet? I am glad we get Bolton first. Lets get the 3 points before they have time to gel. They always give us a hard time...as well as kicking the heck out of us as well. The last few seasons we always seem to get them after a CL game when we are tired.


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
dublin gooner you are right mate and I for one am guilty of it and I'll try and ignore bird-brain and stick to football related or non-slagg off posts. I suppose it's lack of football action and no news on the transfer front that causes people to engage in time filling nonsense.


Mee
June 21, 2005
All quiet on the transfer front. Hleb, Torres, Baptista still no nearer the Colney training centre. This forum seems to have exhausted itself chasing half-truths and gossip - Alexander Hleb was scheduled to appear at Colney on at least five ocassions, while Wenger and Dein were sighted variously in Santos, Seville, Munich, Lyon and Sttutgart. The only reality is that Van Persie is in jail, Edu now plays for Valencia and Vieira wants to join a ‘big club’ capable of winning the CL.


Yorkshire
June 21, 2005
First weeks fixtures?Arsenal V Bolton> Birmingham V Portsmouth> Charlton V Man City> Fulham V Blackburn> Everton V Liverpool> Man Utd V WBA> Newcastle V Aston Villa> Boro V Sunderland> West Ham V Tottenham> Wigan V Chelsea>


Yorkshire
June 21, 2005
First week.....Arsenal V Bolton> Birmingham V Portsmouth> Charlton V Man City> Fulham V Blackburn> Everton V Liverpool> Man Utd V WBA> Newcastle V Aston Villa> Boro V Sunderland> West Ham V Tottenham> Wigan V Chelsea>


dublin gooner
June 21, 2005
have just been reading some recent posts, i dont want to get involved in any argument but i think maybe some of you guys should take a rest for a few hours. how much of your time and energy has this sophism "debate" taken up for instance. one the posts says the poster has been trying to ignore someone for a year! another of the fights has been on going since i first saw this forum several weeks ago.is this really an arsenal forum at all or some sort of vehicle for people to vent their anger at the world? once again i dont want to get involved but having to trawl through such repetitive and abusive posts to find anything worth reading is becoming a real chore and i would think that sooner or later it would result in the membership of this forum being reduced to very few people, ie only those involved in some sort of eternal hate mail tennis. or maybe its like this every summer?


Cann Balls
June 21, 2005
Gungunge,we are still waiting on your thesis on Sophism that you cklaim to know so much about.Well were they Philosephers or not squire? Enlighten us oh knowledgable lecturer on all and sundry with your amazing insightful perceptive brilliance on the subject mas ter.I bet you even know if RVP was innocent or guilty eh Gungunge??? Nah your not that stupid to think anyone could know that now are you??? What a silly question! Though of course you could have a guess at it or even toss a coin heads he is tails he ain't! Oick!


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Gungunge,you just said it, well done squire! yes it was stupid - glad that you now realize it at last and perhaps,or though on all known experience that i have of you i doubt it, you will try engaging your brain before posting your tripe. And never late at night when you return from having been on the Arthurs! I will repeat the advice that Tony Soprano gave to his crew of New jersey cutthroats once, Hey any guy can catch his dick in the zip of his fly once in a lifetime. But if he keeps doing it then he's got a big problem!


Niall
June 21, 2005
Actually, I may be wrong on that Daz as looking at the list I have there are 6 entries for Chocolate Gooner, so given that he may have one from home (with I'm assuming is BT) and one from work/uni (as there is an academic institution there) then two IPs are from the offending posts today (bulldogdsl ISP) and another there from demon.co.uk so it is possible it was an alias. I will look to see if anyone else posts from bulldogds.


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
"The whole idea is stupid" Cannon Balls the great one has spoken!


AmericanGooner
June 21, 2005
I really must proofread my own posts. Sorry for the typos and such. I mean 'bored' s##tless in my response to the post about the American criticizing footie. The old 'new' forum had a grammar check. I am in desperate need of one on this site. **** I saw the Brazil v. Mexico game. For a country that produces so many flair players, you'd think they'd get some half decent defenders. Roque Junior was awful. Argentina looks like the South American side that will challenge Europe for the WC. I'd have to say they're the favorite. France is struggling. Germany has issues, with the Aussies putting 3 past them. Italy have a chance. England looks particularly strong and I wouldn't be shocked at a semi as it stands now. America needs a good foreign coach desperately. We are being coached by managers who don't posess a passport (over the top but not far from the truth).


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Gungunge,you are really becoming embarrassing,your question asking whether or not RVP is innocent or guilty is stupid. And if you can not see that then your even thicker than i believe. No one knows anymore in Holland than anywher else and so it would be only a guess ,dangerous thing to do and stupid in legal matters, this RVP affair is not a joke and your attitue towards it confirms my belief that your no Arsenal supporter and that your an idiot to boot.If you asked the question that you pose then people like in this country would be biased depending on which football club they support,or perhaps by having just a general dislike of young footballers with money and the bad publicity that they have received recently in the worlds media.The whole idea is stupid.I said before that your not safe to be let out on your own and the more that you post your nonsense the more that fact becomes self evident squire,grow up!


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Gungunge, one other thing squire,you are obviously thicker than reinforced concrete - your points on my post saying that i found the debate ( i suspect with others ) tedious. Well dumb-dumb actually i had already posted to Daz that my knowledge was limited on the subject. So your post was again another no no, Quote," Cannon Bull you obviously don't understand the Sophists,Philosophers as a debate that's why you find it tedious" Well not exactly earth shattering news that Gungunge! Or hardly shall we say er.. insightful??? But hey Gungunge how abouts you's sunshine explaining it all to us slow ones on here that are not possesed of your fantastic intellect squire???? Seeing as how like you do understand it and all. Or is this just another of your well known porkies Gungunge??????. Oick!


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
Hurraaaayyy!!!! "Quote from yourself to Rotterdam,"Rotterdam what is the feeling on RVP in Holland? Guilty or no." Now can you see where i find a problem with that post Gungunge? " GUILTY or NO." You are not just asking how the people in Holland feel about RVP are you? But if they think that he is innocent or guilty!" EXACTLY! WELL DONE! You read the post and got it right. I am proud of you mate. You see what you can achieve when you calm down.


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
"I dunno, maybe a sophist picked on you at school or something" LOL!


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Gungunge,i had a good laugh reading your rambling mendacious out of touch with reality last offering! Woot!- hey cowboy turn the space shuttle around and get on back to the mothership your oxegen is clearly running low and effecting your sluggish brain with hallucintory thoughts!!!Not since Tiny Tim tip-toed through the tulips while tripping on magic mushrooms as there been such ludicrousness put forth than your inane rantings on here! Okay dumb-bell i will explain,Quote from yourself to Rotterdam,"Rotterdam what is the feeling on RVP in Holland? Guilty or no." Now can you see where i find a problem with that post Gungunge? " GUILTY or NO." You are not just asking how the people in Holland feel about RVP are you? But if they think that he is innocent or guilty! I once heard Bob Geldorf say something that i can relate to you . I was sitting in the audience at a TV discusion show and Jonathian King was on along with Geldorf, and after one exchange between them Geldorf pointed at King and said to him,"You are a very silly man." Too to true, and er.. i echo those sentiments about yourself squire, your not really safe to be out on your own are you? I reckon that your the sort of clumsy oaf who if walking around a window cleaners ladder to avoid going under it that you would inadvertently put your foot in his bucket of water! Yes your right about one thing it is your word against mine that you were not the posters that i have claimed that you are, however you do your cause no good by your prevaricating on who you were on here prior to your relatively newly acquired handle. And natch you have still not disclosed who that paranoid post about the 4.30 was aimed at,i say it was me ,you claim that it was someone else,i say your telling porkies.Which is par for the course with you. Oick!


Tricky Dicky
richard@andrews3100.fsworld.co.uk
June 21, 2005
It must be the heat, so Barca don't want Henry but RM now say they do, who cares what they want, we know TH14 is going nowhere, OMOH "A bloke on his way into work this morning came to a dead halt in traffic and thinks to himself "Wow, this traffic seems worse than usual. Nothing's moving."He notices a police officer walking back and forth between the lines of cars so he rolls down his window and asks:"Officer what's the hold up?"The officer replies: "It's a Man Utd fan, he's just so depressed about losing the premiership to Arsenal last season and again to Chelsea this season, being knocked out of Europe, losing in the FA Cup final, selling out to a yank and winning naff all after gobbing off all season whilst Liverpool have won the European Cup , he's threatening to douse himself in petrol and set himself on fire.He says his family hates him and his mates are all laughing at him.I'm walking around taking a collection for him.""Oh really?" says the bloke "How much have you collected so far?"."Only about a litre, but a lot of people are still siphoning."


Mee
June 21, 2005
American: Charlie claimed his goal celebration at the cup final in 1971 was a ploy to waste time until the final whistle. The reason the crowd seemed noiser was that were were many more of them - most standing up! As far as I'm aware 'soccer' has always been a description used by a minority - most people called it football or as kids 'footy'


AmericanGooner
June 21, 2005
I got a region free dvd player from a friend Friday night and spent the weekend watching Arsenal dvds. [btw, THANKS you know who!!]. Anyway, I have a couple questions regarding some things I saw. I finally had a chance to see some of the players you guys talk about on here. I like Charlie George. Seems a character. He said he was ont he terraces and then was able to play for us later on. How did that happen? Did he celebrate by laying on his back only the two times I saw on the video or was it a common celebration of his. The video made it seem like it he only did it twice. **** Also, while watching the history of the Arsenal it seems like the stadium was noisy and the fans were always singing. When did we start being teased about being 'the library'? Is it a fair criticism today when compared with the support of other PL sides? **** One last question. Some of the old news reels referred to the sport as 'soccer'. I was very surprised by it. May have been the news reels from the 20s and 30s. Anyway, was the sport popularly called soccer for a while and is now called football? Or did the average fan call it football since inception?


AmericanGooner
June 21, 2005
What I don't understand is those that support LFC being at any cost, even to the detriment of Arsenal (financially). We will lose money if they are in. Through no fault of our own. I am finding it hard to believe gooners would support any action that unjustly punishes Arsenal. **** 3GS, that guy sounds like a couple of my friends. hahaha...truth be told I was born [insert swear word starting with S]-less when I first started watching. I had no choice, nothing else was on. Then the club and the sport grew on me. If I hadn't chosen a club I don't think I'd have tried to understand the sport. As for baseball, its starting to bore Americans as well. It was the most popular sport and has dropped to a distant 3rd behind basketball and gridiron. **** kiwipete, we got the base from the Spanish-American war of 1898. A war started by journalists incidentally. I think we lease it. Possibly for 150 years, can't recall. We pay Fidel each year and allegedly he leaves the checks uncashed. I'm also an all black supporter btw, thanks to an ex gf who is a kiwi. Any female relations in America btw? hehehehe. **** damn..damn..damn..I missed Nick Hornby at a book signing here by 5 minutes!! I was wearing my shirt too. The end of a bad weekend. Lost by mobile as well. damn...damn...damn.


Daz
June 21, 2005
Please don't do it on my account, Niall. OK, I'm quite serious now chocolate. That went waaaay too far but I've obviously contributed to you getting so wound up for which I apologise and really we should leave it there. I tried to be flippant in winding it down but that only seems to have enraged you even more, you've clearly got a major bee in your bonnet - I dunno, maybe a sophist picked on you at school or something - but I'm really joking 99% of the time and I think in the interests of your sanity and forum decorum we should ratchet it down a bit.


Gunfire
June 21, 2005
OK Cannon Bull lets take your post there point by point "gungunge i note that you have still not answered the questions which i asked" It's hard to know what you are asking between the ranting and hysteria but I think it about some post or other. I have answered that question. In the event of admin not confirming IPS it's your word against mine. "the silence is deafening on them from you" Reading my posts would help to break the silence. "You make a clumsy atttempt to switch attention away from that and your inane and mischevious attempt to stir things up on here with unsubstantiated gossip on the RVP affair" No I didn't I asked Rotterdam who is I presume in Holland what is the feeling in Holland. Where is the unsubstaniated gossip? Read the post you'll see. "by sending a ludicrous post on Sophism" READ! It wasn't about sophism "Now dunb-dumb i will make it easy,i did not say that they were my views on Sopohism" Very easy. You are correct. I never said otherwise. READ MY POST. "what i posted was that Judge Dreadful's post gave me an impression of bearded robed men in sandals gathering in a temple back in the mists of time musing and prattling on" Yes you did say this. I can read. Unlike you. " Not exactly now your own interpretation of my post now is it squire" No but then I read posts. "hey everbody makes a mistake now and again but to keep on fouling up you have to be a complete prat" Quite so. Quite so. Apologies to other forumites for the long post but this guy is a tad obsessed. Let anybody who wished read the respective posts from today to confirm the veracity of what I said.


Niall
June 21, 2005
I'm afraid it is Chocolate, I'll get those posts removed at they are disgraceful tbh in their personal nature.


Daz
June 21, 2005
I'm sure one of the forum administrators could tell us. Not I hasten to add because I would want whoever's repsonsible banned or censored - they can say whatever they want about me (although targeting an unborn child seems a little bit tacky however angry you are). If I were chocolate, I woud be hurt to be held responsible for that level of nastiness. I'm kind of hoping that some sense of proportion might hold chocolate back although some of it does sound suspiciously like him - particularly the frappucino allegation.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Those Chocolate posts could be the work of Phil O' Gooner!


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Mud,Mud Glorious mud!, oh yes the Hippotoamus Bernard is a mammal,in fact it's name means literally 'riverine horse', so if you eat them Bernard then your eating horse meat! But a couple of glasses of a good vintage red will make it go down a treat! However a word of warning Ruud Van Nistlerooy is addicted to roasted Rhino served with a aphrodisiacal sauce made from bulls balls and clam-oysters,with a side plate of regular fries. And hey look how it's effected him!


Daz
June 21, 2005
I dunno either, EEG. Would it help if I said the sophists WERE NEVER philosophers? Really, you seem to have ratcheted up a notch too far - I'm not particularly disgusted, I've always said you could say what you want, but it's a bit worrying and such blatant homophobia is out of character - I would have thought.


East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
Its good - but it just has to be fake. Certain references are there but the real Chocolate just isn't quite that twisted. Or maybe he is? You is proper ****ed if that is the case. I want to know. Roger - is this for real in which case Chocolate has had a proper mental breakdown and you should publish his general whereabouts so people can take precautions.


Daz
June 21, 2005
But that's the "honest joe" you were talking about, Mee.


Daz
June 21, 2005
OK I think even a strawberry mivvi might not do the trick here.

East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
Bernard - I dont think hippo is a fish - though my biology expertise only goes so far as O'Level.


Daz
June 21, 2005
I know, EEG, and so sudden. I've got to say that, rather than weeping for my ex-wife (although being at heart a big softy I have done so from time to time) it made me a little bit worried - worried enough to divert the subject from the clearly traumatic one of sophism to the safer ground of ice cream. You're right about the Kaiser Chiefs - great album as is Ry Cooder's new one - Chavez Ravine. Anyway, there's teasing chocolate and there's dealing with a proper mentalist so I've learned my lesson.


Vicky Crescit
June 21, 2005
Mrs. Van Persie has had a chance to express her views. See:-http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15646802&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=arsenal-star-s-wife--58--i-blame-rebecca-loos-name_page.html She seems like a very loyal lady. Maybe RvP should take another lesson from Dennis Bergkamp and go home to his wife at nights!


East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
Weve been down this road before Daz and the lolly/ice cream combination doesn't sit easily with me. I would go for a Fruit Pastille, a Del Monte orange juice fruit ice, or a Fab. By the way, I think that was a melted Chocolate. I mean he is often very strange and almost always a pain in the arse but usually quite carefully to wrap himself in a veil of correctness. Quite seedy really.


Daz
June 21, 2005
Has he gone????? Blimey, that was a bit over the top, worthy of my ex-wife actually. Didn't know he cared THAT much about whether the sophists were philosophers to get SO politically incorrect as to start getting homophobic as well. Honestly, I'm gonna stay away from him, I promise. I'd suggest a strawberry mivvi for the heat, chocolate, it's a fine ice cream and - I know you don't like personal details - one of my favourites.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
Daz hasn't been around for quite a while. Two possible reasons spring to mind. a) Chocolate hasn't posted lately either so he hasn't got anything to say to him. b) He's pranged the car in his driving lesson.


Cannon Balls
June 21, 2005
Well gungunge i note that you have still not answered the questions which i asked,the silence is deafening on them from you - and that says more than words. You make a clumsy atttempt to switch attention away from that and your inane and mischevious attempt to stir things up on here with unsubstantiated gossip on the RVP affair - by sending a ludicrous post on Sophism. Now dunb-dumb i will make it easy,i did not say that they were my views on Sopohism,what i posted was that Judge Dreadful's post gave me an impression of bearded robed men in sandals gathering in a temple back in the mists of time musing and prattling on. And that i found the tone of his Lordshites post pretentious intellectual snobbery. Get the drift donkeybrain??? Not exactly now your own interpretation of my post now is it squire, but like Tony Soprano might advise,hey everbody makes a mistake now and again but to keep on fouling up you have to be a complete prat!


3GS
June 21, 2005
After reading what Jerry has written,I must say that I can sympathise a little.I never go on about football in general or Arsenal in the company of people who I dont think would be interested.I dont mind people who hate football or think any the less of them,not at all. I would say however that if I were to go to America I am sure I would get Baseball fed to me 24/7.Baseball 24/7,....what a nightmare!!!!


3GS
An American abroads view.
June 21, 2005
(NOTE:written by a fun loving American friend of mine, Mr 'USA' Steinburger)Standing in a pub one day, I had to endure several mind-numbing, tedious, brain-destroying hours of endless statistics, recollections, utter b.s. concerning the great (yeah... right...) game of what you call "soccer"... the game where you are actually supposed to use your God damn feet as opposed to, say, picking up the damn ball as in real football "American football". Anyway, having little interest in 11 dudes running around a big field, kicking the remains of a dead pig to and fro, I simply tried to consume as much alcohol as possible before my liver decides to shrivel up and die. After many, many hours of "that goal in the 83 final against..." and "the best player since..." and "I'd suck his .... any day,... he's an artist on the pitch..." somebody, somewhere made a referrence to that classic movie, "Apocalypse Now". I'm finally roused from my boredom-induced coma upon hearing the name of one of my favourite films and, speaking for the first time in hours mumbled some comment expressing my disbelief that "Apocalypse Now" lost the Best Film Award to that piece-of-crap movie "Kramer vs. Kramer" at the 79 Oscars. Silence fell, many a long-suffering glances fell on Yours Truly and the comment "Shut up... you tosser" was uttered. Pardon? Am I missing something? I'm accused of being anal because I let forth a single piece of film trivia? Weren't those lunk-headed retards blabbering on for what seemed like an eternity about the game of soccer, pouring over every player, every goal, every damn match that has ever been played? Hello Mr. Pot... care to speak to Mr. Kettle here? I'm aware that many people follow soccer in a mildly interested way and may even have a slight affiliation for a particular team. Nothing wrong with that at all. BUT... some people are just completely obssessed. They live, eat, drink and sleep that which is known as soccer. It is what they live for. They can rattle off every little bit of minutae concerning the game faster than any computer. They know nothing else. And... they LOOK DOWN ON ANYBODY THAT DOES NOT SHARE THEIR PASSION! You don't like football? You are weird! You like old movies? You are a poncy arty farty poofter! If you don't like football, you are not a REAL man! God forbid, their team loses a match? They cry! They hug each other! They sob and console each other as if it were the end of the damn world! We have to have live T.V. coverage of every God damn game from Outer Mongolia, soccer is everywhere! You can't escape it,JEEZZ!!! For all you soccer freaks,go back to the brain-free masses, go play with yourselves after every goal scored, let the juice fly when your team wins the cup... I say a hearty "Go Screw!" to all you fanatical, dormant, thoughtless, braindead, empty, lifeless, soccer clowns! And take your pathetic God damn soccer scarves with you...


ROO
June 21, 2005
Parma have stayed up in Serie A then? Expect Frey to come out with his "I'm staying here now despite the interest from big clubs" etc. Every year this overhyped loser makes all these big claims, yet every year he's always still at Parma come August. I wonder if any club ever has really made a bid for him? According to him he's spoken to Arsene Wenger about 20 times in the last four years. If he is so good why does he have so few Caps for France at a time when they dont have a stand out top keeper? As for the Vieira rumours? For ****sake! If that thing even hints at starting up again and Patrick goes into his silent mode, I'll be booting his backside all the way to the airport myself. We should have got Van Bommel (bargain of the summer) on a free before Barca, and then told Vieira to fight for his place or **** off. Surely we are not going to be in the same position as we were this time last year, so reliant on one player and where his commitment lies? We must move on, improve the sqaud and make players like Vieira less vital, and so ensure when they might leave it's not such a major drama. Come on Wenger get out there and make some quality, proven buys(Frey is not quality or proven).


GaryS
June 21, 2005
I have no problem with no statement from the club on RVP as, for the moment, I don’t think it will serve any purpose. I would hope, however, that they (AW / DD) are in contact with RVP via his lawyer and are being supportive at this stage. Lets hope he's proved innocent but for now, frustratingly, we just have to wait for the Dutch justice system to run its course.


Bernard
June 21, 2005
EEG, I agree we're probably coming from different angles as you suggest. I much prefer red to white wine, so I'm happy to agree you'd have to be perverted to put a white wine with a robust meat dish (yet if you love white wine, I can understand people doing it). But I could quite happily knock back a nice red with a fish dish (is hippo a fish, by the way)?


JamesLT
June 21, 2005
ABU: You're taking quite a hard line there. Would you extend that to RVP too?


East End Gooner
June 21, 2005
Glad to oblige Bernard - I was fairly pleased with the level of snobbery in the phrasing. But being serious, I think we are coming from different angles here. For me its the wine and food in equal measures whereas I reckon you might come from a wine as the priority standpoint. For me, the wine has to work together with the food. And it is just plain wrong (and indeed slightly perverted) to put a lighter drink (which lets face it most whites are) with a really heavily flavoured piece of meat. Likewise the cool freshness of most stuff that spends it life in water (except for a meaty fish like tuna or a hippo) doesn't want a room-temperature over-bearing red messing around with it. Now maybe that is snobbery but it seems like common sense to me.


abu
June 21, 2005
if pvp is found guilty then he should be sacked - fair enough


dublin gooner
June 21, 2005
jesus! well, did we really expect a summer without the usual pv4 to real madrid/juve/wherever circus. weve certainly gotten off to a bad start with colegate/rvp etc. although i dont really believe vieira is thinking of going to madrid after what happened last summer, despite what the article says, that would be ridiculous if it all started up again.


Rob K
June 20, 2005
Fish - thats absurd - if he is not charged (which I hope will be the case in the coming days) - sure shouldnt he play for us again. Assming he's innocent RVP has done nothing worse than the majority of footballers (or us for that sake) but has been caught out by a vengeful gold-digger. In my mind if he isnt charged there shouldnt be a blemish on his record. He will certainly have my full support.


Bluey
June 20, 2005
What can the Board really say publically re RvP's situation? I am not sure whether they have spoken to him direct or through his lawyer. If he is released, I bet by the start of the season, he will be forgiven. If he is charged, I expect Arsenal to stand by him like they have done with Graham Stack


Abu
June 20, 2005
Why expect any statement from the board - they hide when the shit hits the fan and bleet like babies when they dont get thier own way -


Arsenal Fish Bar
June 20, 2005
I personally think that a loan spell might be good for Quincy and for his long term progression at the club. However I would think that any loan deal involving Quincy would wait on RVP’s situation, and I’m afraid this will apply to any transfer deals involving – withdrawn forward/forward players. The club has to think in worse case scenario terms, i.e RVP being charged and going to prison. If this were the case they would obviously have to “write him off” as an asset and try and replace him like for like, which would consequently mean that any funds earmarked to add a player to the squad could be needed to buy the replacement. I reiterate that I think the clubs silence on RVP is absolutely deafening, at the very least I expected a statement after last weeks Board meeting. I have not seen any reports that the club is in any way offering legal or other assistance etc. RVP seems just to be represented by his own lawyer. I would imagine the Board and AW are absolutely furious that RVP – even if innocent of any charges - let himself get into a situation that could have ended up in this scenario. If his case does not go to trial, then I think he will have to do some serious bridge building. If it does go to trial the whole thing will not be sorted for several months, well into the new season. If this is the case, even if he is eventually cleared, I have doubts that he will pay for the club again.


Rob K
June 20, 2005
To add to my nightmare summer description of last week, I forgot to add the traditional unsettling of PV4 & of course the leaking of interest in one of our players at an absurd price. Channel 4 has managed to combine the two to give us the story that Juve will sign PV4 for 10m. http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun19e.html


Dadubliner
June 20, 2005
Kiwipete, i'm not really interested in rugby... you'd better ask juliano he's the true specialist here.


Bernard
June 20, 2005
EEG, I'll be plagiarising "it would take a particularly nasty pervert to lay a white over the dry-aged rump" when a bit of snobbish language is needed in wine discussions. To be honest, I tend to think you should drink the wine you like rather than be shaped into drinking a wine because of the food that's to be consumed with it. If the food will reduce (or increase) the pleasure you get from a particular wine, that'll clearly come into the equation but, for example, I find it inconceivable that any food would make me enjoy a New Zealand sauvignon blanc. Does anyone have any ideas if 'inconceivable' is the appropriate word to use in that circumstance ... signed Hospital Administrator, Cuffley General.


East End Gooner
June 20, 2005
Chocolate (if that is you) - to plagiarise one of your own sayings with a little twist. "You is proper gone".


East End Gooner
June 20, 2005
Bernard - Not sure I can agree with your theory on wine selection. Put me in front of two bottles with no food and I will always take the red but there are certain foods that just need a white and for which a red is wrong. As an example, the oysters I downed on Saturday afternoon were crying out for the Sancerre I poured on top. Having said that it would take a particularly nasty pervert to lay a white over the dry-aged rump that I cooked to perfection over the coals last night. I have to say I came over all Harlow this weekend. Fantastic weather (if a little steamy), the Villaaaage fair, Punch & Judy for the little one, lagers for his Dad, Uncle and Grandpa, the park, the ladies in the park, vest-tops for goal-posts, bar-bees, pucker food, good wine, a bit of Gorillaz, a bit of Kaiser Chiefs. All round a proper weekend.


Bernard
June 20, 2005
Just phoned the club to find out myself. 60% of the 6,700 club levels seats are now sold. That equates to 4,020 being sold, with 2,680 remaining. The £3,500 price bracket is completely sold out, but there's still 'good' availability (he termed it that way, although if 'good' means a lot, then surely it's 'bad') remaining for the £2,500, £3,250 and £4,750 price brackets.


Bernard
June 20, 2005
Harlow, have you (or anyone else) heard how club levels sales are going. A few weeks ago there was that 'midfield section' (whatever the midfield section is) sold out report on Arsenal.com, but I've not seen anything since.


harlow steve
June 20, 2005
Well, after a bloody good weekend, I woke this morning to the thought of travelling on ONE railway to Liverpool Street Station and then onto work, not good I must say… Before I left, I caught some of Sky Sports News, seems the Fans were out again at the weekend, queuing to buy the new properties at Ashburton Grove. One fan a member of the Arsenal Supporters Club, was discussing the sale of Season Tickets. It seems that quite a few Arsenal Fans are now sharing season tickets, due to the high cost, apparently Arsenal have put on sale the dearest season ticket in the league, costs £1800… There was also some concern over the fact that those who purchase one of the flats get a season ticket thrown into the deal… Part of the brief from Islington Council on the build of Ashburton Grove, was that 10.000 of the Arsenal fans must live within the borough… Some fans who have been on the Season Ticket waiting list for a number of years and are 6/7 years down the waiting list are upset that fans, who can afford the £255k to 550k for the new properties are jumping the queue… It also seems that Arsenal will sell out the new stadium executive packages with no problem and well in advance of the stadium opening, the demand for tickets to watch Arsenal is huge, this said by the Sky Reporter… So who does create the high prices, the club, the players or the fans, who demand success…


Gunfire
June 20, 2005
Kiwipete the lions are going to get humped on Saturday unless they smarten up big time especially at the breakdown. The All Blacks are the usual arrogant antipodeans who think they'll whitewash the series so maybe overconfidence might give the Lions hope.


Bernard
June 20, 2005
What's 'blance' when it's at home?


Bernard
June 20, 2005
I've nothing against New Zealand wine, though I'm excluding sauvignon blance from that comment.


Daz
June 20, 2005
Nah, that's either not chocolate or really not worth answering. You've seen me off with that one. Congrats!


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
Bernard ..thanks for that.. rest assured the meat will be dark... the ungrateful little bludger.. and did you realise I mean splutter ...th tha that compliment on NZ pinot noir.

Rob K
June 20, 2005
Would be disappointing if we let Quincy go on loan - http://www.fansfc.com/frontpage/frontpagenews.asp?newsid=141106

Bernard
June 20, 2005
Sorry, just worked out what bar-beed might mean: BBQ lamb. I'd still go with a shiraz though. Strongly flavoured and you don't have to pay too much to get a good one.


Bernard
June 20, 2005
kiwipete, I recommend following a very simple rule when selecting wines to match food: avoid New Zealand sauvignon blanc at all costs. I'd also say that if you prefer red wine much more than white, have red even if you're having fish or chicken (or any other food normally associated with white wine). Vice versa also, if you like white wine much more than red, have white wine even if you're eating a darker meat that's normally associated with matching red wines. If you're having lamb cooked in manner that'll give it a robust taste and you like red wine, I'd go for an 'up-front' wine like a strongly flavoured shiraz rather than something more delicate like a pinot noir (albeit some New Zealand pinot noirs are rather nice). A richly flavoured shiraz can stand up to most strongly flavoured foods in the battle over dominating your taste buds. The other difficulty is guessing what'll be available in your local wine merchant, off licence or supermarket.


Daz
June 20, 2005
I'm off for my driving lesson anyway. You'll be pleased to know, chocolate, that my huge list of accomplishments which you so thoughtfully set out does not include a driving licence. If only you could be there to witness my humiliation in parallel parking and my instructor berating me as a mollusc. And I promise when I get back I'll stick strictly to football as it was all becoming a little undignified. If you're looking for somebody to blame in re-igniting the great Sophist debate and hence a whole Vesuvius of acrimony and resentment , look no further than the General Administrator's office of Cuffley Hospital Trust.


jeffers is a gunners legend
June 20, 2005
does anyone have a link to the private eye story about ashley cole and the prada suit?


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
Lead off Danger ...what about that FA semi Final v Stoke in the 1971...I personally didn't think Storey would hold his nerve.


Danger
June 20, 2005
Football anyone?


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
dadubliner ...would you British and Irish Lions be having any chance against the All Blacks this weekend?


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
Mee... obviously John Wilkes Booth obviously didn't get the message.


Daz
June 20, 2005
And I think my restraint in not commenting on "neigh on three years" should be commended!!!


Daz
June 20, 2005
Let's be fair though, Mee, Lincoln had better things to do - like freeing slaves - than hang out on an Arsenal Supporter's Forum. Chocolate's protestations might carry more weight if he didn't hurl himself into every available fray with such gusto - even if I ignore him he'll be screaming at somebody else shortly. The list of people with whom he's crossed his trusty sword of truth is preeeeettty long. But you're right, it's demeaning, it's getting too stupid for words and it ends up leaving me feeling slightly nauseous.


dadubliner
June 20, 2005
"I’ve ignored this guy for a whole year and that didn’t work. The Brazil thing is so feeble that you really do have to wonder. So what if I called Brazil a region instead of a country?? What does it matter? Why would someone bang on about for well neigh on 3 years? This guy is a loon and ignoring him doesn’t work. He tried the same thing with BMurph and BMurph left. I ain’t going anywhere just because some crazy fool with nothing better to do turns his feeble fire in my direction. Cheers." oh ok ok, welcome back choc'!


dadubliner
June 20, 2005
i must have missed something...wasn't chocolate ignoring daz?


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
Rejected on both fronts might as well tarry a little longer. Bar-beed lamb tommorrow with a nice ..what would you recommend Bernard? What sort of Draconian laws in the land of Dykes and Daffodils. van Persie can be held for another three months without being charged? While on the subject of gaols; could someone enlighten me ...the US don't like Castro..so how come they manage to have the penal colony at Guantanamo Bay.


chocolate gooner
June 20, 2005
Mee… you’re smart enough not need any advice and to be honest being caught up in this whole idiotic charade I have no idea what it looks like to an outsider, but my advice nonetheless for what it’s worth, is ignore the pantomime if you possibly can. I’ve ignored this guy for a whole year and that didn’t work. The Brazil thing is so feeble that you really do have to wonder. So what if I called Brazil a region instead of a country?? What does it matter? Why would someone bang on about for well neigh on 3 years? This guy is a loon and ignoring him doesn’t work. He tried the same thing with BMurph and BMurph left. I ain’t going anywhere just because some crazy fool with nothing better to do turns his feeble fire in my direction. Cheers.


Mee
June 20, 2005
The mark of an intelligent man is to make those lesser souls he meets, feel equally as intelligent.. (Abraham Lincoln)


Daz
June 20, 2005
Small point of information thoough. I don't want to weep about my divorce, I check the post every morning for the decree absolute. Think it's a little tasteless as an insult but I've never shed any tears over anything anybody's said to me on this forum so feel free to use anything you think appropriate. But really, let's give it up - think we've taken this one as far as it can go.


jeremy
June 20, 2005
Gosh,so much transfer talks going around but the bottomline is,there is nothing concrete.As the days goes by,it is becoming more likely that we might not sign anyone at all becos the war chest that our board had been talking about was just a mere puff.Perhaps Ljungberg had said it all.


Daz
June 20, 2005
Let's stop now, chocolate, OK? You're getting quite hysterical and it's becoming very silly.


Mee
June 20, 2005
Daz: Those who occupy higher ground, should have due regard for those on the lower slopes struggling to gain a foothold. I don’t have your photographic recall of chocolates earlier quotes. (country/region)


Daz
June 20, 2005
He sees nothing wrong with being culturally sophisticated? You're missing the point in quite spectacular style.


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
Fair points Cobber.. don't mind seeing the Okkers get their beans in the cricket as they have been top dogs for too long but having worked there so often don't share the average Kiwis claim that " they support any team playing the Aussies." Our own totally inept capitulations around March were pretty embarrassing. Wouldn't mind seeing a few of their rugby players George Gregan, Stirling Mortlock stretchered off. Will leave you to cross swords with Choccy...to bed ..wonder if the wife is still awake..?...ah never mind here's Dolly.


Daz
June 20, 2005
Hit the spot? It would take a little more than a snidey little dig about my divorce, chocolate, although I'd agree that it's exactly your tactic - to use something that was always used jokingly on here and invest it with malevolent purpose. I think chocolate is a little more sinister than you give him credit for, Mee (and Brazil is a 'region' not a 'country' by the way). Show-off and intellectual snob that I am - and if you can't see through that one then you deserve any patronsing brickbats you receive - but I struggle with the idea of "honest joe" as anything remotely approximating the demented little creep.


chocolate gooner
June 20, 2005
Aha… that one hit the spot. Good. BTW you’re a fool. If Russell chose to include people like Newton in his book does that mean that Physics is also philosophy? YOU ARE NOT WORTH THE TIME. Good day.


Mee
June 20, 2005
Daz and the Judge: The evidence is clear, Chocolate has been found guilty by you of plagarising information from google then passing it off as his own. He evidently doesn’t know the difference between Sophist and sophist. He thinks Brazil is a third world country like any other. He sees nothing wrong with being culturally sophisticated. He is I imagine, like most people on here, neither an intellectual, nor a dunce; he’s opinionated without having knowledge; he’s successful without being accomplished - in other words an ‘average joe’ getting on with those around him, blinded by the glow of your intellect and attempting to burnish his own. Do the houses you live in have living rooms or a lounge, and do you visit the lavatory or go to the toilet? Be careful not to trip over those 11+ bikes on your way there.


Daz
June 20, 2005
Erm...I think that last post kind of typifies what I was saying about you, chocolate. You're really a deeply unpleasant indivdual and I truly pity anybody who comes into contact with you on a day-to-day basis. Shouldn't imagine that's many people, but still I feel sorry for those who do.


Daz
June 20, 2005
Like I say, Kiwi, if you enjoy the sight of Ricky Ponting looking shell-shocked and Jason Gillespie devastated - just watch Gillepsie's last over to Pieteresen. As one of the observers put it - total embarrassment yesterday and total embarrassment today.


chocolate gooner
June 20, 2005
Isn’t that wonderful… you and Bernard managed to chat about it in a rather easy going way?? You said that Sophism was philosophy on the grounds that Bertrand Russell said so. Bernard’s colleague disputes what you said emphatically. So which is it? Are you WRONG ( I have to ask?) in spite of that much advertised Philosophy 101 of yours or is Bernard’s colleague wrong? It is not enough now to start hopping about on one foot trying to finesse your way out of another hole that you’ve dug yourself into. You said that Sophism is philosophy. Tell us how. And as Bernard said it isn’t enough to say that SOME SOPHISTS WERE PHILOSOPHERS because that has never been in dispute, and as I might also have told you just because St Augustine was a monk didn’t make all monks philosophers… or monasticism philosophy. You have no case. Your plagiarism thingy would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic. Churchill and Aitken?? You’re having a laugh. You plagiarised a con man, a dishonest politician, and a convicted perjurer on this forum and wish compare it to one of the most well known and inspirational speech in history??. How apt. How fitting, given your preferred mode of dishonest and mendacious disputation. Nothing gives me more pleasure than to see your desperation in the face of accurate and indisputable facts. To watch you squirm and hurl ever wilder and barmier accusations of plagiarism and the such like is proof of the utter bankruptcy of any argument you possess. As for brown nosing… you seem to be in the grip of the green eyed monster. Bernard is smart. I may not agree with him on every issue but he is on a completely superior level to you. Deal with it. As for James LT, again the guy displays an independence of mind and a willingness to take unpopular positions on this forum that shames your own lily-livered need to embrace every passing Decaf or JohnD whilst disowning them immediately they are caught holding a stupid idea that you never ever challenged. “Sophism” and “sophism” anyone? You’re a waste of time. Go on, why not tell us some more about your fantastic life… it just makes me wonder why wife Number-whatever chose to leg it from the Nirvana that is life with you? I might have called you an idiot again but then I realised that to do so will leave me having to apologise to everyone I’d ever called an idiot previously. Sorry, but you’re beneath contempt. Obsess away, you kook. Cheers.


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
...ah you have me there Cannon ...I heard some Kiwi tosser on the radio gloating over the Aussies loss to Bangladesh didn't realise it was yesterday and the wife just informed me they had also lost to you blokes today. Well done.


dboo
June 20, 2005
Regarding the John Obi Mikel story, just to say he has no chance of getting his contract cancelled. He signed the deal with United but his agent was cut out of the deal hence the reason he wants the United deal cancelled. Apparently Lyn, his club simply negotiated with United without involving his agent.


Gunfire
June 20, 2005
Cannon Bull you obviously don't understand the Sophists as Philosophers debate hence the fact it appears to you as tedious. In the same way that children find the news tedious. I am sure there is a Philosophy for Dummies out there for you to go with your Grammar for Dummies, Insults for Dummies and last but not least Anger Management for Dummies.


Daz
June 20, 2005
Sorry, Bernard, I'm in far too good a mood. Oh hell, why not? For somebody so convinced of their own rightness, chocolate, you place an awful lot of arse-licking value on the opinion of others to support your case. JamesLT questioned something I said - oh no, pass me the cyanide pill. By that criterion, given that there are very few on this forum who haven't called you a total E*G at some point you should at least bow your head. And still - mealy-mouthed little E*G that you are - all you can do is say "made a contribution to Western thought". Philosophy and Thought are not interchangable terms and if Russell had thought that he might have included science and religion or changed the title to your suggested one in deference to your google-induced frenzy on the topic. But he didn't. Any idea why that might be. choc-a-google? Maybe because he thought philosophy and thought were quite different things? On your most shameful incident to date, putting a large chunk of text without quotation marks as if it is your own work IS plagiarism. Suggesting that you are a twisted little charlatan on a par with Jonathan Aitken by ascribing to YOU his famous phrase isn't. If I had said thatI was termbling because you intended to fight me on the beaches it would be foolish to suggest that I was plagairising Churchill. But I forgot - you are a fool. Actually, you're kind of worse than that. I've tried to think what it is about you that is so unpleasant. Decaf came near when he called you sinister but I think it's your total lack of grace or charm. You simply have no volume control at all, no change of pitch. It's the same high-pitched scream at all times: no change of theme, no change of emphasis, no self-deprecating humour to leaven the incessant siren of your opinions. While you were doing whatever it is you do when you're not here (I see you as some kind of Wizard of Oz figure - a rather dessicated form behind all the sound and fury), Bernard and I managed to chat about the topic in a fairly amicable and easygoing way. Your return is a bit like when a car alarm that's been bothering you stops and you breathe a sigh of relief and then off it goes again. I know you're trying to start the "religion" debate again - it's your MO when things aren't going so well for you. But on that one I really and truly can't be bothered.


Andy
June 20, 2005
He's at spuds.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Chocolate i am not taking sides in this rather tedious debate that you and Daz are engaged in between you two on who is right or wrong.But i have to agree with your point on the irratating know all Judge Dreadful. What a load of pretentious claptrap that last post from his Lordshite was!! Talk about intellectual snobberey,more like robbery!Google???? It brought to mind a picture of bearded robed men in sandals gathered in a temple back in the mists of time musing and prattling on endlessly about subjects which were beyond the ken of ordinary man. Mind you i am stoically resigned to having ones of that ilk posted to me by Gungunge.Oick!


Bernard
June 20, 2005
Suppose the big question today is whether or not Daz will respond to Chocolate's last post. I think there's a chance he might.


chocolate gooner
June 20, 2005
Once more I feel compelled to point out the rank dishonesty with which Daz chooses to debate any given issue. I have not shifted my position on the Sophism question one iota. Not an inch. What I said, which Daz disputed was and I quote again… “Sophism is not philosophy” that was my exact comment. Daz then said that it was on the grounds that Bertrand Russell had called the sophists “itinerant philosophers”. My position was always consistent. I said that while Protagoras, Gorgias and other leading sophists might have made a contribution to western thought and therefore deserved their place in any history of Western philosophy (which is effectively a history of Western Thought) sophism couldn’t be called philosophy because it was mostly concerned with rhetoric. I even pointed out to Daz that calling Sophism philosophy would mean that we would have to include all manner of things and individuals under the umbrella of philosophy, which would then render the word meaningless. That has always been my position. Nothing has changed in that position. The only thing that has changed is that Daz, once more, finds that what he was banging on about (very, very loudly) is no longer defensible because Bernard asked someone in a position to know… so he has to put a spin on what someone else said rather than gracefully accept that he is WRONG once again. But it is hardly surprising… we had the same modus when I told him that calling religion the greatest threat facing humanity (in a world in which the greatest mass murderers of our time were mostly atheistic regimes like Hitler’s, Stalin’s, Pol Pot’s and even as recently revealed- Mao’s) is and was unspeakably stupid. A world in which poverty and disease threaten most of the third world populations cannot possibly be a world in which religion is the greatest threat. A world in which Global warming threatens the very existence of places like Bangladesh cannot be a world in which we elevate Religion to our number one threat. Except, of course, one is a shallow, unimaginative, incurious, smug and self-satisfied twerp… and all that rather describes Daz to a “T”. It was the same modus that we all witnessed when I pointed out the stupidity of his definition of the word “Zeitgeist”. He banged on and on till JamesLT intervened with a succinct and erudite post. It is the very same modus that tries to paint me as a hater of English players while at the one and same time bangs on about a post mine which was biased in Ashley Cole’s favour and was blatantly unfair to Nicolas Anelka (I make absolutely no apology for either stance). This is the very same modus that alleges that the absence of quotation marks equals plagiarism whilst refusing to tell us what his own blatant doctoring of a speech by Jonathan Aitken for which he received praise and gave no hint of the source of the prose he was passing off as his own amounts to. The bottom line is that Daz is an idiot. A kooky, obsessive bully of an idiot. He may well be a published, rich, well fed, well married, property-owning, well-connected Shakespeare of an idiot but he is an idiot none the less. Cheers all…. … … … … … BTW, JohnD’s pathetic dissembling isn’t worthy of any sort of reply.


Bernard
June 20, 2005
Rotterdam, who is Mounir El Hamdaoui a reserve team striker for? I've never heard of him.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Tittletattle of course Gungegunge but i guess that you got the drift,so drift away.Oick!


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Another stupid post from the the king of gunge,how the feck would the people of Holland know you twat??? Or are you after just stirring it again Gunggunge usisng unsupported titletale ,get back on the Chavs boars where you belong you oaf,oick!


Daz
June 20, 2005
Jason Gillespie's face in his last over! Says it all really. They're not a rubbish team but they don't inspire fear and it was poetic justice for Damien Martyn's kiss to the crowd.


Gunfire
June 20, 2005
Rotterdam what is the feeling on Van P. in Holland? Guilty or no.


Rotterdam Gooner
June 20, 2005
Reports in the papers here that one of van Persie's mates involved in this unholy affair is Mounir El Hamdaoui, reserve team striker for .....He's supposed to be one the guys that left the hotelroom before the the fun & frolics started and has been quizzed by police several times.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Kiwi,just when i thought it was safe to go back in the water your dorsal fin appears menacingly in the surf! Blimey! - 15000 rounds of ammo expended to try and kill a mozzie - and you miss sailor! Well they dont't in my experience like smoke - something apparently to do with their poikilothermicness producing an allergy too it. So cobber all that smoke from the machine gun would do the trick nicely.Gungegunge of course never need not concern himself he's got nothing to worry about he lives surrounded by a smoke screen - no chance of one of the nasty little buggers giving him a dose of their mordacious attentions then! I note that you never mentioned the Poms sport when giving your caustic verdict on the weekends cricket results???? Whoosh! - there goes another one for six!!!!


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Okay Gungunge my last word on what is admittedly a tedious subject,so who were you if not those handles that i say you were prior to the one your now hiding behind on here??? Simple question really, you having only posted under the present since lat deceber,though of course your alter ego in gunge Gun Gun( what ever became of him?) was also rampant on here for awhile too. All the paronoid patter about myself and your pal Niall confirming that your Gun Gun ,i mean Gunfire is a smoke screen,oik! Why your about it squire can you also tell us who the person was if not myself that you posted that paronoid rant too over the 4.30post???,oik! another that you managed in that inimitable clumsy oafish way of yours to get wrong!!!


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Okay Gungunge my last word on what is admittedly a tedious subject,so who were you if not those handles that i say you were prior to the one your now hiding behind on here??? Simple question really, you having only posted under the present since lat deceber,though of course your alter ego in gunge Gun Gun( what ever became of him?) was also rampant on here for awhile too. All the paronoid patter about myself and your pal Niall confirming that your Gun Gun ,i mean Gunfire is a smoke screen,oik! Why your about it squire can you also tell us who the person was if not myself that you posted that paronoid rant too over the 4.30post???,oik! another that you managed in that inimitable clumsy oafish way of yours to get wrong!!!


kiwipete
June 20, 2005
Cobber...would also like to rejoice at the Okkers demise v Bangladesh but would be a bit out of place given that they have recently run thru our illustrious heroes like a king size dose of Epsom salts. Think even a man of your undoubted debating skills would be hard pressed to nail Cannon Balls down. Like trying to hit a mosquito with a machine gun... plenty of noise and action but 15,000 rounds later you will still hear whine of those little high speed wings. Michael Campbell [not Sol ] won the US Masters ..nothing to do with Arsenal but the first time since Bob Charles .... who...? someone from this poxy little god forsaken country has won a major golf title.


Niall
June 20, 2005
Got to agre with Gunfire, Exiled, skimmed ur posts but the USSR point was utter rubbish mate, no offence.


Gunfire
June 20, 2005
Exiled so I am semantic. Well that's rich form a guy whose arguement is based on a country that doesn't exist and a trophy they never won. Liverpool do exist and they won the CL. Not by the way on a dodgy penalty shoot out as Cannon Bull put it. Why is it ridiculous? Because it differs from yours. American called it right albeit unintentionally. They have no RIGHT to be there but it is an opinion whether they should or not. Cannon Bull you really are totally OTT I have never posted to you in any other handle and never replied using another handle. Like I said admin can confirm this. You sound a tad sexually frustrated. Does the little soldier not salute in the heat of battle? Does the missus have a glint in her eye when she sees guys who don't need a mirror to see their todger. You are damn easy to wind up and someone has been winding you up good and proper by the sound of things. Like I said the IPs can be traced. Try this link www.paranoiamagazine.com. You'll feel more at home.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Daz,i well aware that Corbyn is an MP and not a member of thge council,Alex made mention of him and payed him a compliment,i was giving my view on him from my experience of having met him and from what i see of him on TV and hearing and reading about his activities.Why does he still dress like an impoverished student anyway,silly pretentious prat! His researchers at the place with 5 well stocked and populated bars are on more money than some ordinary folk can even dream about. Not myself of course! It will not surprise you to know that i don't like Livingstone either anyone can copy ideas from others - which is all he does and claims to have thought them up all on his ownsome!.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Daz,i was refering to the late 70's and 80's in my post about Islington and the Hodges incident and the dodgy property deals. All of these are well documented, i meant Canonbury actually where Smith bought his house.There was the other council houses for votes in Westminster that went on about the same time involving the leader of Westminster council Lady Tesco who was a pal of the 'Mad Cow' Thatcher,Lady Tesco was convicted of the offence and also selling a graveyard full of corpses to a property developer for 5p,of course she claimed that there was nothing in the deal for her. As far has i know she's still not paid back the £14million that she was fined in England and fled abroad to live in the land of the brave and the home of the free. On Gungunge,i prefer that sobriquet to the more illustrious one that's been bestowed upon him, albeit only by himself. He as been posting to me since EURO 04 using various handles i caught him out once by posting to him in one of them in answer to a post he sent me in another and he replied , thatone was Patrick,it was early in the morning and perhaps his brain still addled with the previous nights pints of Arthurs was even more sluggish than normal!I recognize his posts from his terminology and at one time his insistent advice at the end of each boring lecture of 'grow up'. I actually see him being an hack on a small town Irish newspaper,the Pig Farming correspondent would appear a likely position. Phil or Bisto was of course responsible for the recent posts done under my and most likely others handles on here,that is what he does ,the bluey one and fried sliced were another couple ranting about the club not having any ambition in Europe,an old hobby horse of Bisto's that he uses to berate us with.Yes i was very pleased with the cricket and hope we can carry on the good work in the test matches to come.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Daz,i was refering to the late 70's and 80's in my post about Islington and the Hodges incident and the dodgy property deals. All of these are well documented, i meant Canonbury actually where Smith bought his house.There was the other council houses for votes in Westminster that went on about the same time involving the leader of Westminster council Lady Tesco who was a pal of the 'Mad Cow' Thatcher,Lady Tesco was convicted of the offence and also selling a graveyard full of corpses to a property developer for 5p,of course she claimed that there was nothing in the deal for her. As far has i know she's still not paid back the £14million that she was fined in England and fled abroad to live in the land of the brave and the home of the free. On Gungunge,i prefer that sobriquet to the more illustrious one that's been bestowed upon him, albeit only by himself. He as been posting to me since EURO 04 using various handles i caught him out once by posting to him in one of them in answer to a post he sent me in another and he replied , thatone was Patrick,it was early in the morning and perhaps his brain still addled with the previous nights pints of Arthurs was even more sluggish than normal!I recognize his posts from his terminology and at one time his insistent advice at the end of each boring lecture of 'grow up'. I actually see him being an hack on a small town Irish newspaper,the Pig Farming cor


Daz
June 20, 2005
Alex, I wouldn't take too much of what Cannon Balls says seriously. He may well have had a few too many beers at the barbie and also be overjoyed (as I am) at the cricket - take that, you arrogant E*Gers! Corbyn isn't an arsehole and has nothing to do with the council anyway, Brondesbury isn't in Islington (he may be thinking of Barnsbury) and the council is overwhelmingly Lib Dem NIMBYs rather than populated by the leftys of CB's fevered imagination who are probably also a) Irish and b) Phil the Gooner. In addition, CB, while I have no particular brief for Gunfire I'm fascinated how you KNOW with such certainty that he's all the people you say he is. Given that you're a guy who likes evidence, facts and knows that a table is a thing with four legs and you don't need any poncey gay philosophers to tell you otherwise, what is your evidence for this???


Exiled In Newcastle
June 20, 2005
Hong Kong - can I say what a pleasure it is to see someone actually concede an opposing point has some validity rather than the total intransigence (sp) often displaid. Personally though I don't think it was good that UEFA caved in to a media campaign. For once the FA did right by saying, 'it's a great shame but we said what would happen at the start of the season and don't want to change that', unlike the Spanish FA who capitulated at the feet of fascism to get Real in. UEFA showed that their rules can be changed on a whim. Which is very dangerous. I don't disagree that they should have seen the warning when Madrid didn't (by right) qualify despite being holders, but they didn't. And 1 thrilling 45 of football is not any kind of reason to change the rules. By that reckoning maybe we should win back to back premierships for the game against Everton.


TOP GUN
June 20, 2005
What do you call XXX?? an absolute twat! rot in hell you chavski scumbag!


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
American,i am no lawyer but i understand that it is rare for the law to be changed to convict someone in retrospect for a crime. And to me this is what allowing Liverpool to partake in next sasons ECL amounts too,except that they are being rewarded for theirs! The non-trying and piss-poor performances in the EPL, which played a major part in their success, are being rewarded with a place - which they do not warrant in the forthcoming tournament. I do not give a monkeys about the fact that they won the ECL ,albeit on a dodgy penalty shoot-out,they have had their prize for that and the reasons given by Uefa for why they allowed the car-thieves in to the next ECL are just plain ridiculous!


Hong Kong Gooner
June 20, 2005
Exiled - fair point about Liverpool finishing fifth, but I just think that by whatever dopey reasoning Uefa arrived at their decision, it does justice to Liverpool's situation.


Cannon Balls
June 20, 2005
Alex,judging from your post you have no experience of Islington council? Corbyn is an asshole of the first order ,i know i have had personal experience of him!. And the council going back years to when Hodge was the leader (she covered up child sex abusein council childrens homes)and Blair and his wife lived local ,helping to get his pal Smith depose our MP by having him de-selected,the council as been incompetent and corrupt.The buying of 'council houses' by people like Smith and other local councellors was a disgrace. The houses that i refer were actually not ones on the likes of the Marquess estate down Essex rd but town houses bought under compulsery purchase orders in places like Brondesbury which ended up being occupied by the likes of Smith and bought later by them under the right to buy scheme.These properties which they got for a few thousand pounds are now worth millions! So before we start getting worked up about any moral issuses with Islington council a reality check is required.The people on the council don't even watch football and are in fact mainly lefty anti-contact sport nutters.Which goes a long way to explaining the problems that we had in obtaining permission to build our new stadium.


XXX
June 20, 2005
What do you call a poster called socrates with half a brain ?? Dangerous Hleb,Torres,and Baptista tomorrow you internet mug


AmericanGooner
June 20, 2005
Gunfire, as was noted before, do Olympic sprint champions get to defend their title? Its not a god given right. Its an opinion. UEFA have rules covering all kinds of things. Have you gone to their site and read their regulations? Its long and boring and tiresome. So, you're telling me they have thought of rules covering things as small as kits and a complicated payout scheme but have not considered a champion not being able to defend its table due to its place in its own league? Especially with the precedent of having the same thing occur with Real Madrid? If the rules was so 'unjust' as you say why didn't UEFA change it then? They left it to that countries FA and when the english FA didn't bite, they changed it anyway. If they wanted the champion to defend its title no matter what they would have had it in the rules. And don't use UEFA's actions as proof there are right. UEFA isn't a deity that knows what's best. Do you agree with all their rules? I doubt you do (and love to hear you say do so I can ask about certain rules they presently have on the books), so don't use the ones that you agree with as the basis why you're right. Also, let me ask you this. Is it right that we lose money through no fault of our own? That is really what irks me the most. **** So, any 'public groundswell' is a good enough reason to change the rules? The one thing that has disappointed me when I took up this sport was FIFA and UEFA's obvious lust for money. Having needless competitions like the Confed. Cup just to get money, changing the CL format so that more money can be made and devaluing the competition. Its really sad. **** As for RvP I would assume he had sex. When does consensual sex = rape? If he raped her, then off to jail he goes. I will not support a proven rapist. However, the circumstances smacks of a set up by the girl. She leaves a club with him, goes to another club with him. Goes to a hotel room with him. Hmmm, I'll wait for the facts but did she think they were going to the hotel room to watch a tape of him taking is PK in the cup final? **** Fergie was quoted recently saying "We didn't deserve what happened (losing to Arsenal in the) FA Cup Final. We'll get ourselves off the ground next season." ---- and so Fergie did you deserve to Rooney's dive as well?


socrates
June 20, 2005
xxx.....never heard of Robhinio and Baptisa, would they be any relation to Robinho and Baptista? I despair of you xxx you really have got shite for brains, at least if you are going to post a wind-up get the spellings right.


Vicky Crescit
June 20, 2005
I think we should award a prize of a wooden spoon - inserted into an appropriate posterior place - to Channel4.com for what I believe to be the first "Vieira is looking for a move away from Arsenal" stories of the transfer season. "He thinks the time is right to move on and Juventus are unlikely to be put off by Arsenal's £10m asking price". Yeah, right! Maybe he loves racial abuse and can't wait to get back to the thrilling times he had while at Milan. Some sites are just so brazen in the way that they make up stories!


socrates
June 20, 2005
xxx.....never heard of Robinhio and Baptisa, would they be any relation to Robinho and Baptista? I despair of you xxx you really have got shite for brains, at least if you are going to post a wind-up get the spellings right.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 20, 2005
Alex - trust good; extra 10-20m (which is one hell of a lot being as it would have to be 'new' money) for not entering into the spirit of things is cobblers and nothing to do with ethics, but with not being screwed (anymore) by the council etc. Hong Kong - they did have the opportunity to qualify for it, but they finished 5th.


Hong Kong Gooner
June 20, 2005
I also believe that it is right to allow Liverpool,as holders, the opportunity to get into the group stages of the Champions League and entry into the first of the play-off rounds seems like a fair compromise to me.Having said that, I also agree that no other team should have to make way so that they can gain entry (did that actually happen?) and the top four English clubs should not lose any income as a result.Further, if the authorities said that they are in because they staged a great fightback and a groundswell of public opinion is in favour then that's a ridiculous basis on which to make the decision.However, at the end of the day I believe that the winners of a trophy should be allowed a proper opportunity to defend it, which is surely a matter of opinion, and in this case I think Liverpool should.Finally, the analogy with creating retrospective criminal offences does not seem to me to be a strong one.The law should be very slow to punish retrospectively, whereas the situation should be different if you are looking to grant retrospective benefits, which is the case with allowing Liverpool in.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 20, 2005
As I said Gunfire your only refuge is semantics. The World Cup Finals and the World Cup Qualifying system equate to the ECL and APL. The fact they're both named World Cup is irrelevent, as appearing in one is dependent on qualifying from the other. The USSR analogy is valid because to enter/qualify for any competition you have to qualify according to the rules of that competition. And by virtue of not been recognised as a nation and therefore not being affiliated to FIFA the USSR wouldn't meet those criteria. You could put it another way and, still imagining the USSR winning, but imagining rather than breaking up the USSR had become even more hardline. The FA of the USSR is disbanded and run by the goverment. According to FIFA statutes national associations should be free of political control, so FIFA expel the USSR. Not being affiliated to FIFA they have no right to enter the qualifying competition for the world cup even though they still exist as a nation and are holders. That's the trouble with your view, it's always been based on the patantly rediculous theory that all winners should be granted automatic entry.


Gunfire
June 20, 2005
Exiled it is entirely different. The USSr didn't exist so that's that they can't enter. The qualifiers are the World Cup. If you play in them you have a chance of going to the finals. Liverpool are not in the CL but have to qualify like Brazil. Liverpool under the old rules would be completely excluded from the CL even though they were champions.


IndianGooner(Manoj)
A request
June 20, 2005
I have an urgent request. Can anyone help me by mailing me a nice enlarged and high res pic of the Arsenal 1971 Cannon crest. Just the cannon would be ok too. PLEASE PRETY PLEASE try and get this for me quick. Mail it to me tingudu at gmail.com please. THANKS A BUNCH GUYS!! VVPTBAG.


Alex
June 20, 2005
Thanks Exiled for the link. What do you think on the matter?


Alex
June 20, 2005
I also see (in the Islington Gazette) that Jeremy Corbyn (Labour Islington MP-pretty trustworthy) is complaining that Arsenal are not acting in 'good faith' with thier plans for the re-development of Highbury, and improving transport. Still not convinced that Arsenal are acting properly with regards to the CPOs. They should do everything possible to help those that they're forcing to move. An extra 10-20M is nothing for such a project, and would avoid leaving a bitter taste to the whole affair. As I said before, ethical behaviour is a hard argument to make in football, so maybe we should spend more time looking at are own behaviour rather than complaining about the likes of Man U and Chelsea. Though of course I'm not trying to compare Big Company bullys, and uber-mafia types.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 20, 2005
Alex - think you'll find we have. http://www.aisa.org/news/trust.html


Alex
June 20, 2005
Interesting article in the The Observer today about supporters trusts. Apperently there are already 129 democratic Supporters trusts in the english leagues, 6 of them in the premiership. I'm assuming we don't have one. Is this the future? Anyone know much more about them?


XXX
June 20, 2005
Robhinio and Baptisa to sign tomorrow lunchtime Honest Socrates you can tell al your internet bummer mates


Exiled In Newcastle
June 19, 2005
Gunfire - let's take your argument on a journey. Winners should automatically be allowed to enter. Imagine the USSR had won the world cup just before it started fragmenting. By the next world cup the USSR only exists in the mind of hardliners hoping for a return to what was. Now according to you as the holders they should be allowed to enter the world cup at the finals stage. But the truth is that they wouldn't be allowed to enter because they failed one of the major criteria - they didn;t exist anymore. Saying 'but Brazil can enter the world cup' doesn't wash either. They can enter the qualifying competition for the world cup finals, but, imporantly to compete in the world cup finals they have to qualify by rsults in their group. How is this any different (except in semantics) to Liverpool having to qualify via the league. I venture the only difference is that in Liverpools case both things (winning and non-qualification) happened at the same time. They didn't meet the qusalification criteria and so they shouldn't be allowed to compete. Whether the rules are wrong and should be changed to prevent a future recurrence is a different matter.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Good man Cannon Bull you're doing the right thing. Have some extra veg for the calming effect.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Bernard I am saying the qualification criteria for entry to the CL should have included the winners whether or not they qualified by being in the top 4. I think UEFA realised how silly it was and changed it. I think the FA including our Mr. Dein forced them into changing by confirming the top 4 rather than putting Everton onto the UEFA cup like Sapin did when real won it and finished 5th. I think had the Spanish gone down the FA route they would have to have changed it earlier. The winners of a competition should geta chance to defend it. Your example of Brazil is not vaild as Brazil aren't being stopped from playing in the World Cup merely stopped from automatic entry to the finals. They are in the competition. In Liverpool's case they would have been stopped from competeing at all.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Actually Gungunge i just off out down the pub to carry on watching the cricket and have drink and a roat dinner later.I shall return later and surprise i will on reading this forum that you have still not managed to think up one of your lies to answer my question about who the person is that you refered too in your 4-30 post.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
Gunfire, I simply fail to see why it is so unjust that the winners don't re-enter the competition if they don't meet the qualification criteria in place at the time. Say Brazil fail to come above whatever countries are in their world cup qualifying group. Do you think they should still be let in, because I don't. If they fail to beat the group teams they're in with, that's a 'fair cop' and they shouldn't get in just because they won it last time. I think exactly the same about Liverpool. They weren't good enough to come in the top four of the premiership when the rules were that the top four get in, so I don't think it's remotely unjust that they get excluded from next year's competition because of it. And I think my speeding analogy was much better to be honest. Just because Liverpool happened to win the thing, it should have been to late to change the rule just to let them in when they failed to qualify under the rules in place.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Are you still here Cannon Bull?!?! What no mates? No bar open? Phone lines busy?


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Oh and the only handle you use Gungunge,you mean now of course,what about all those others in the past that i mentioned,and who were you before the present one which you have only used since just before Christmas??? And don't insult the 'slower' ones on here by suggesting that you never posted before that time. Let's face it Gungunge your not very bright are you? and tosuggest that others on here are thick is coming from a nasty brain-dead little gob-shite like you laugable!!!!!


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Cannon Bull how was my case for Liverpools's inclusion in the CL absurd? It's my opinion and guess what it's UEFA's as well as many other people's. But I guess anything that differs from your blinkered view of the world is absurd. As for calling me Donkeybrain...that got me....now I'm realllyyy cross!


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Cannon Bull you know there are people you can talk to about your condition. Family and friends are a good start and maybe phone a helpline like the Samaritans. Otherwise you could end up like those people who go on about the New World Order and black helicopters from the UN. I didn't post the "rapist" post you keep going on about. In fact I didn't see it. I referd to the paranoid rant about Russians which read a lot like your posts do (Sort of like a GCSE student who can't get a date). Now run a long there's a good fellow and wipe the flecks of spittle of the computer monitor. Go for a walk, get some fresh air maybe get an icecream or a cold beer. Then maybe just maybe we talk about football, Arsenal and such things.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Only a donkey brain like you Gungunge could could come up with a stupid analogy comparing breaking the speeding laws to take a sick child to hospital to try andmake your absurd case for Liverpool playing in next season Champions League!!!, silly little twat! I note that you have still not said who the poster was that you refered too in your inane odious 4.30 post.What's wrong can't you remember gungegunge??? Perhaps too much of the Arthurs again eh???


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
I'll just repeat for the slower posters. This handle is the only one I use and admin can verify this.


socrates
June 19, 2005
Re: Guti......the Sunday People (for what it's worth) are linking us with Real Madrid's Guti. To be honest i simply don't rate the guy, he has struggled to hold down a place in Real's side and I don't see him as being any better than what we curently have, when in truth we should be looking to improve the side. I hope the speculation is wrong, but we have been linked with him before so it would not surprise me if there is an element of truth in the story.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Oh yeah Gungunge, like you never posted that 4.30 abusive one to me right,it was meant for someone else right??? We are still waiting to hear from you who it was right???? And also where your evidence is that i see something of myself in the rapist imposter poster right???. Of course there is none it's just another pathetic lie that you have thought up to go with all the others that you so glibly spout out.So then Gungune er.. what handle did you use on here prior to your present one,which you have only used for a short while? then??. Enlighten us all donkey brain.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
I have NEVER posted under any other handle on this forum (indeed on any other one either)and the admin on here can verify I was not Gun Gun or anybody else. I appreciate that, unlike someone I could mention, they may have more important things to worry about on a fine Summer Sunday than trying to placate some old fart's paranoia.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Bernard I see what your saying but I think you may being taking too legalistic a view (called in legal circles Black Letter Law). I am saying that where there is an injustice (obviously this depends on your viewpoint) the rules should be changed and if necessary retroactively. The example you give is not the same. If you broke the law that said aboce 40 mph was speeding then you would have to own and say fair cop. There is nothing unjust about it. If they changed it later too bad. A better example on the speeding theme would be where you got fined for breaking the speed limit but you were doing so for a good reason. Lets say you were bringing a sick child to the doctor and had to go 100 in a 40 mile zone. Technically you broke but you should not be punished. It is absurd to bar the champions from the champions league and I'm glad UEFA agree.


Sabir
June 19, 2005
Cannon, just my luck! I watched the cricket up until the score was 50-0. I come upstairs for 10 minutes and the Aussies begin to crumble...get in!


Sabir
June 19, 2005
Rotterdam Gooner - thanks for keeping us informed about the media goings-on in Holland. However just 'cause he probably did have sex with the girl doesn't mean rape. Van Persie might just be denying the sex because he has a missus. Actually I just don't want to think the worst, he was turning into a real player recently. On the Liverpool issue, I'm of the opinion that they should not have been let in. If you're the Champions of Europe, then why were you battling Bolton to finish fifth in your domestic league up until the last day of the season? They knew the rules at the beginning of the season. You can't just go round changing rules to suit yourselves.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
3 for 57! the Aussies wickets are going down faster than a Shelia's thong after having a can of XXXX's!


Open Letter to Exiled
June 19, 2005
Hi Warrior, can you please let me know if I will be banned from the new forum on the basis that I have had a posting deleted and my IP address has been 'recorded'. And by the way, to whoever carried out the above I am still waiting for an explanation one week later; in the absence of an explanation an apology and re-instatement of my posting would also be acceptable. Thanks in advance.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Bernard there's more chance of Daz and Chocolate agreeing on the meaning of Sophism than the dullard donkey brained Gungunge grasping the point of anything of a rational nature. Trying to hold an intelligent debate with Gungunge is like going up to the door of a house with the lights on - but then on ringing the bell discovering the awful truth that there is no one in.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
No Gunfire, it's the rules in place at the time that should be adhered to. If they're wrong, change them. But change them so that the new rules come into force at a particular time and decisions are made in accordance with the rules at a specific time; rather than going back and in this case qualifying a club that didn't qualify for the competition according to the rules at the time. Say they lowered the speeding limit near where you live, where there's also a speeding camera, from 40 to 30 on 1 June. So from 1 June you limit your speed to 30 or less. But the camera caught you doing speeds between 37 and 40 prior to 1 June. Do you think it's fair that you should get a fine and three points on your licence because you exceeded the new speeding limit before the date of the change. No, of course you wouldn't. You'd expect to be fined or not according to the rules in place at the time. That's what should have happened with Liverpool. And I agree with Daz anyway. Why should a winner automatically get a place in next year's competition.


Cannon Balls
A resume of Gunfires 4 30 post
June 19, 2005
Quote, "Who was it that mentioned a press conference yesterday at 4.30?" (Un-quote The post was headed by'Cannon Balls') "A mistake perhaps? Or some cretin who likes waffling on trying to sound intelligent and lives in a paranoid world where people change their handle and the board is being invaded by Chavski supporters as well as trying to be the first to post rumours like a school kid.Nah we don't have such a person on here like that." Well i do not post rumours on here only facts Gungunge,like the ones concerning the ECL cash which the EPL clubs would get and which i disclosed 5 weeks before they were offically released - so stick that up your posterior too you muppet. Oh and you will be claiming next that you never posted under the handle of Gun Gun!!!, just one of many others that you have inflicted upon the forum, you only started using Gunfire prior to Christmas when posting an abusive lecture ( something your rather fond of doing) to Steve Martin,before that you were let's see how many i can recall off hand, Sean, Patrick,Gerry Adams,Islington ,Blue Glory and others too numerious to mention,you would be at it now your like a chameleon changing handles but you can't get away with it now,you really are pathetic and a coward with it too.More lies on their way no doubt?


m
June 19, 2005
bernard the number 7 for the dutch is quincy


Daz
June 19, 2005
Back to football, I agree with Bernard that I would not have been screaming for Arsenal's inclusion. I just totally fail to see why winning a trophy you cannot then qualify for entitles you to "defend" it. The only entitlement comes from qualifying. I would not have screamed because I wouldn't want to draw yet more attention to our lamentable perfromamce in the league or appear guilty of special pleading - neither of which seems to bother the scousers.


Daz
June 19, 2005
In spite of decaf's snootiness about this definition (from Russell again) I think it's a good one - that philosophy lies between the definite answers of science and the dogma of religion. As Sophism really refers to a profession, it's almost certainly true that some were and some weren't philosophers, just as some may have been more and some less scrupulous with their methods of argument. So it''s kind of a muddle question; sophism sometimes is and sometimes isn't might be the best answer. But you could also understand sophism as being the fledgling sceptical movement best represented by Protagoras who was the most important Sophist and a philosopher. That there were other individuals who might also have been sophists but are largely unknown to us and who weren't philosophers seems of very little consequence to me. It certainly doesn't entitle you to claim "sophism is not philosophy" or chocolate's much stronger and stupider assertion that sophists can't be considered philosophers because they earned later opprobrium from other philosophers. So what? Proves nothing. Hitler was a politician in spite of being the most reviled one this century has produced. Having said that, chocolate seems to have backed down on Protagoras who was both a) the leading sophist and b) a philosopher of great importance. Anyway, yes David d, the first nipper is due this week which is exciting and terrifying at the same time and probably explains why I'm wittering away about Protagoras. I have earned lots of brownie points by putting stuff up - if you're lurking out there chocolate, you'll be pleased to know that the pram is a bugaboo frog - de riguer in Stoke Newington apparently. Thanks for the tip, Judge.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Hey gungunge pull the other one it's got bells on it! You posted your Nurse!!! Nurse!!! one to me believing that i had posted the 'russian mafia' nonsense,we have all had plenty of experience of your pro-obssesional postings about Abramovich and Chelsea,which others on here have pulled you up about.That post you sent about the 4.30 press-conference was about me because you believed like with the 'russian mafia' one that i had posted it,end of story and yet again having made a complete pillock of your self your trying to patheticallylie way out of it, so who is the one then that we all knowabout???? Answers on a postcard PLEASE!. And to paraphrase your much posted advice on here to everyone after the Cup-final,grow up. And i do not like your odious insinutions that i see something of myself in the pervert who posted the rape post.On what evidence do you base this then? What i do see is that your a complete prat so take your 'boys in green' and your Abramovich and all of the other mindless gunge that you spout out on here and stick them where the sun don't shine squire. That must be plain enough for even you to grasp.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Bernard the original rule was clearly wrong in my opinion and the opinion of many other people. I accept many such as yourself have a differing view point which is grounded in respect for the rules as they were. But I feel where a rule is clearly unjust it should be changed and I'm glad to say it has been changed in this case. The situation was bound to happen again and sooner or later the pressure would be brought to bear on UEFA to change the rule. I described the individual who would post such a thing to Cannon Bull and he thought I was talking about him. I don't know which element of it gave it away, the paranoia or the cretinism.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
No Gunfire I wouldn't have been screaming for Arsenal's inclusion. I'd have accepted the rules or qualification criteria in place at the time. Liverpool should be happy with the glory they enjoyed by winning the final, and that should've been it. And they certainly should not get a single penny of the money due to the four clubs who genuinely qualified under the existing criteria. By the way, did you ever get back to Cannon Balls about who you were referring to with that post yesterday, as he asked?


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Sorry Bernard but the original rule relating to the CL was bunk anyway. It is absurd that the winners should not get the chance to defend their title. If it was us wouldn't you be screaming for us to be in the CL? I would, rules or no rules. However Liverfluke won it they won it and the fact that just because they fluked it doesn't alter the fact they are unfortunately champions. The history books will note that they won the CL in 2005 and if you are a Liverpool fan that is all theat matters. England is the biggest football power in Europe. Once the FA said only the top 4 go into the CL there was only going to be 1 outcome and that is the 1 that has happened.


Rotterdam Gooner
June 19, 2005
The noose is tightening - according to newspaper reports here today a leaked police- report confirms van Persie, despite his denials, did have sex with Sandra, although he keeps denying rape. This from the biggest newspaper in the Netherlands. Don't want to be a doom monger, but I believe Arsene should go looking for another striker.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
I think Cannon Balls has a point. If they were going to be let into the Champions League, the money they were going to get via competing in the EUFA Cup should've been taken from the EUFA Cup pot and given to Liverpool. If Liverpool have replaced some obscure east European (or from anywhere else) club in the Champions League who have now moved to the EUFA Cup, they (the obscure club) should have carried their entitlement from the Champions League to the EUFA Cup. Having said that, I'm in the camp that don't think Liverpool should've been awarded a place in the Champions League, and in doing so it's disgraceful they're getting any of the money due to the four clubs who actually qualified for it.


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
A few weeks back i posted on here some figures relating to the money that each of the four EPL qualifying Champions league clubs would receive for participating in next seasons competition. I am pleased to see from yesterdays Uefa announcement that the original figures that i posted were proven to be correct. Not so pleased however to learn that they have been altered to our detriment. The original figures that i gave for the record were for EPL clubs participating in the ECL the following. Chelsea,40%. Arsenal,30%. United and Everton both on 15% of the ECL cake. That's now been reduced to Chelsea,37.5%. Arsenal,27.5%. And United and Everton on 12.5% each so to allow Euefa to provide money for Liverpools unexpected participation in next seasons ECL. According to Uefa because of: "A groundswell of public opinion brought about by Liverpools stirring fight back in the Champions League final" The statement then goes on to say that the UNPRECEDENTED decision was taken CONTRARY to the ORIGINAL RULES to allow Liverpool to partake in next seasons ECL competition and to allocate them the smallest share of the EPL cash available for teams playing in the ECL. So there we have it - the decision was taken following a 'groundswell of public opinion', after the car-thieves nicked the ECL trophy, to reward them by allowing them to pick the pockets of cash from other English clubs who had legitimately qualified for the ECL tournament, and a UNPRECEDENTED decision was made on an emotional outburst of 'public opinion' to allow Liverpool to partake in next seasons ECL. i would bet however that this dysphemistic decision was not reached by asking the supporters of the legally qualifying clubs what they thought about it! Because hang on but also when was there a 'groundswell' of 'public opinion' that demanded that Liverpool be given other clubs rightfully earned money in all of this malarkey??? Even the old garrulous jimber-jawed Jimmy Hill would be hard pressed to justify it - though i am sure that he would give it a good try! This whole episode reveals the paucity of any moral standing at Euefa -time and time again when faced with a problem - like the racist abuse of black players - or the drunken jock accusing them of fixing the draws against him, that made me laugh though!,i mean ,come on now! is there really any need for that!!! But Uefa duck dealing with issues head-on and settle instead for the soft options that will not upset the sacred TV cash-cows. Integrity is not a word which is on the agenda in Genever and this latest episode of incompetent waffling ,to appease the car-thieves - and their lovable scally supporters, further devalues an already suspect ECL - which is being turned increasingly into a Mickey Mouse Cup competition by Uefas incompetence and the TV companies manipulation of it for their own purposes.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
Judge, no I don't think I did get the ball rolling. First time round it was Daz and Chocolate, second time round as seems to be the case I innocently posted something a philosophy lecturer told me (who may know something of the subject at a minimal level), Daz ignored it, Chocolate wasn't around, and Decaf cracked a joke. Who else was there? I accept maybe I shouldn't have posted what the philosophy lecturer said, but it was such a big debate previously I decided to. Others (well, was it you), decided to make a thing of what, I'm growingly confident of saying, there isn't a right answer to one way or the other.


Judge JohnD
June 19, 2005
Just back from EEG Land visiting the son and daughter-in-law and, Daz, the 14-month-old granddaughter - she is the bee's knees and, you will quickly find out, that they are a lot more coherent than choco. One tip, if you have not got already, a digi camcorder to go with your tiny mobile. You must get in there from day one at the hospital and get it down on tape. They take about ten minutes to master with brilliant results attainable on just a couple of auto settings. Prices are quite reasonable and sites such as Pixmania offer good service and fair prices. It really is a must do…………Just breezed through today's postings and note that although you and Bernard sort of agree that hospital administrators have no known links with philosophy, neither of you make mention of any tendency not to be planks though. Not surprising when you remember how angry Bernard got with that Irish fellow Phil O'Sofa who posted here a few months back……Bernard: you definitely started the ball rolling and Fish Bar chipped in. I did no more than point you and your lecturer in the direction of the BBC4 Vote that featured many pre-Socratics and the founding Sophist, which clearly must be a weighty alternative view. I also tried to suggest that confusing modern day common nouns trawled from a Thesaurus, with proper nouns that denote recognized philosophical movements some 2500 years old, is a basic error. Why don't you take up my far from subliminal message and argue that because Daz is so obviously an epicure, has on a few occasions displayed a mildly cynical attitude whilst being a sceptic at times, but always bearing up in a stoical fashion - none of which makes him philosophical - proves that The Epicureans, Cynics, Sceptics and Stoics could not possibly therefore be philosophers. That is precisely how choco started out with sophist when he looked it up in the Thesaurus - which he still does not understand is the converse of a dictionary. I understand that is not what your lecturer meant but hey, there are lecturers out there who would have us believe that the Universe was not created in six days - and you trust them? Have you noticed socrates posting on here - expect the definitive answer soon. Second thoughts he did say he knew nothing - now who does that remind me of …………….


Bernard
June 19, 2005
Gaz, I haven't looked at your link but is this number 7 Quincy? If so, very subtle. If not, who is he?


david.d
June 19, 2005
silly question daz. are you about to become a father? excited? my first child will be born in december and i am well excited and there's still 6 months to go!!! the thought of being responsible for this little human being until the day you die is a bit scary but im really looking forward to becoming a father. another gooner of course....


david.d
June 19, 2005
thanks warrior , much appreciated......quiet on the transfer front. i still think hleb will end up signing in the end but this baptista guy sounds like he could be just what we are looking for. big strong powerful and knows where the goal is. ive never seen him play but going on what others have said he sounds a bit tasty. you know when you just get a feeling about a player you have never seen play could be a hit for us. well im getting that feeling about baptisita and this swedish keeper isaackson. come on arsene snap them up and hleb!


Gaz ( B/Wood )
June 19, 2005
Warrior-thanks for the info on the new forum. Come on Arsenal.


Gaz ( B/Wood )
June 19, 2005
Just been looking at some of the games on this website. http://www.nos.nl/noswktot20/dagoverzicht/samenvattingen.html Perhaps if we're looking for a young exciting forward, with all the tricks and skill in the world we should put a bid in for the Dutch no 7!?! Come on Arsenal.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
Daz, I suppose the philosophy lecturer thought sophists must have contributed a lot less to the development of philosophy as you, and certainly not enough to call sophism philosophy (regardless that some of them might have been philosophers). Hospital administrators though ... I wouldn't be so quick to write off their philosophical merits.


Warrior
June 19, 2005
Hi David - I removed your old details - Regards - Rog ..


Daz
June 19, 2005
It's been an action-packed last baby-free weekend. Put up the cot, made tea, watched DVDs of Will and Grace, entertained visitors and engaged in a philosophy debate with Bernard. At least it is considerably less tedious (for me at least) without chocolate screaming like a castrated banshee.


Daz
June 19, 2005
I would see that as a mistake, Bernard. You're quite right that anybody can be philosophical or even a philosopher. But you'd be hard-pressed find a group of hospital administrators who by virtue of their trade had made a significant contribution to the development of philosophy, ditto postmen or classical pianists or whatever. It would be a coincidence and their trade would be as irrelevant as their choice of football team. Given that the Sophists were teachers and scholars who were primarily associated with a particular mode of enquiry which led many of them to philosophical scepticism they can be considered as fundamentally different from the groups you describe.


Bernard
June 19, 2005
Daz, as you said earlier (I think), the meaning of philosophy as well as sophism is open to debate. Accepting that I find it difficult to think that being philosophical is something that can be cut off from anybody. You said sophism was nearer to philosophy than hospital administration, and you may have a point. But that doesn't stop hospital administrators from being philosophical and on that basis, to some degree philosophers, also. I would say the same thing about prostitutes, dustmen, tea ladies, road sweepers, corporate entrepreneurs, secretaries, policemen, surgeons, civil servants, footballers and bankers (doesn't mean all of them are, but some members of those professions may have fitted a basic definition of philosopher). The philosophy lecturer said the same thing about sophists. Whether or not Chocolate said no sophist could ever be a philosopher (of some description), I'll have to take your word for it. But if he did, I think he'd be wrong.


david.d
June 19, 2005
hi warrior can you please cancel/wipe my previous registration so i can register afresh from my home pc again if thats possible . thanks


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Just popping in from the garden for a quick look and see that Gungunge has left another pile of his crappa on the site. Er.. so clever clogs enlighten us please ,who were you refering too then???? Nurse!!!!! nurse!!!!! Quick Gungunge is tring to think!!! Medication and an oxegen tent required quick!!!! Like Tony Soprano might add,Hey every guy catches himself at least once in the zip of his fly,but if he keeps doing it then he has a big problem!.


Warrior
June 19, 2005
Hi Long time - Anyone who registered before won't have to register again on the new forum - All members, posts and pics, etc are still there .. No one needs to register if they don't want to btw - Rog ..


AmericanGooner
June 19, 2005
Sorry, don't have a link. I saw it on another site and they posted it: John Obi Mikel has pleaded with FIFA to cancel the contract he signed with Manchester United so he can join Chelsea instead. The Nigerian youngster's future is currently under investigation by FIFA's player status department after he walked out on Norwegian club FC Lyn, saying they'd sold him to United against his wishes. But he told The Daily Mail that he had been training with the Blues since the Claudio Ranieri era and considered himself their player. The teenager also added that for the past two years the Stamford Bridge outfit paid his expenses and helped support his family. Mikel said: "Everything is with FIFA now. I just want them to take decisions for me."


Daz
June 19, 2005
It's not the question that would throw the most light on the issue, Bernard, as I suspect - like I said before - there would probably be some confusion as to what was meant by 'sophism'. The question is really whether sophists can be considered philosophers. There may be less to argue about now that chocolate appears to have shifted his position and seems to accept that some of them - regardless of what their succesors said about them and whether they received money for their labours just like your philosophy lecturers - undoubtedly can be.


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Did I say it was you Cannon Bull? Unless when reading my description of what kind of saddo would do such a thing you recognised a little of yourself. Ah well it is good to know oneself isn't it?


Bernard
June 19, 2005
Daz, just had a thought. There's another interdisciplinary do next month. If I bump into another philosophy lecturer shall I ask him/her if sophism is philosophy and post the response here? On second thought, maybe not. Rumours would start flying round about some wierdo from the department interested in patient/trolley ratios in A&E wards who keeps asking philosophy academics whether sophism is philosophy. And as we all know, I'm completely sane!!!


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Okay Daz i accept your point but their must be a correlation between the word and the actions of the Sophists that's been passed down through the mists of time. Whether or not this is a correct description of their activities or a false one placed upon them by their opponents i am happy to leave to others to debate, but if Decaf's ruminations are an example of the genre then i would have to accept the present meaning of Sophists to be a correct one! Though again of course they may not themseves have engaged in such nonsense. However my guests have arrived and i am off to indulge myself in a fest of food and drink and to engage in conversation of a more mundane nature winding up a couple of football opponents in the process,cheers!


Cannon Balls
June 19, 2005
Oh dear Gungunge you have shot youself in the foot again i am afraid (any chance that you can you make it in the head next time!) the imposter Cannon Balls who lives in Glasgow posted the 4.30 one yesterday not me you idiot, a fact cofirmed by Warrior. Can't you get anything right???. For christ sake grow up will you!


Gunfire
June 19, 2005
Who was it that mentioned a press conference yesterday at 4.30? A mistake perhaps? Or some cretin who likes waffling on trying to sound intelligent and lives in a paranoid world where people chnage their handle and the board is being invaded by Chavski supporters as well as trying to be the first to post rumours like a school kid? Nah we don't have such a person on here do we?


Daz
June 19, 2005
That is indeed the modern-day connotation attached to sophistry, Cannon Balls. But that's not what I'm talking about. A sophist originally meant a teacher or a professor from 5th Century BC Athens who taught, among other things, philosophy. You might think their philosophy is good, bad or indifferent but that's not the point either. They won't be the first or the last to have negative assoications attached to their name by their subsequent enemies. Not least because they insisted on going where their argument led them rather than tailoring it to accept the conventional wisdom of the time or pre-ordained ends such as "virtue".


simon
June 19, 2005
I hope the baptista rumours are true, he is quick and can play one touch which would suit our style. However, he is also very strong, can hold the ball up is very good in the air, will stay central and scores a lot of goals.


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
Well i have no desire on this hot-afternoon while i await on friends coming around to my house for a barbecue in the garden to engage in a debate on philosophy. But i understand Sophism to mean an argument that is apparently correct in form but in reality is factually invalid. And of course my well known penchant for dealing only in facts leads me no choice but to add my own, admittedly very limited view! which is that it suggests to me that Sophistry is exactly the type of nonsense that Decaf would indulge himself in! Arty-farty -psedo-intellectual claptrap!But the art of deception only works if the recipitents of it are deceived into believing the nonsense put before them,and it appears to me that the weakness of this type of argument is that it merely confuzzles most people,rather than convincing them of the validty of the premise. And also the points debated are never satifactorialy settled -being of the 'how long is a piece of string type' they can go on ad-nauseam. Hey tell us about it!


Daz
June 18, 2005
Bernard: I would certainly agree that it is debatable as to what consitutes philosophy, what we mean by sophism and who the sophists actually were. (Although the fact that the principal sophists would fit within the paramaters of what most sane people - admittedly ruling chocolate out straight away - consider philosophy seems beyond much reasonable doubt). But the above variables are all the kind of things that in any normal conversation you could reflect upon, concede that your opponent might have a point, revise your own opinion (steady, Bernard, 'cos I know the last might be a disturbing concept). Not with chocolate who starts the debate at such an excrutiatingly high decibel level, shifting ground, firing out guff and obsessing over tiny details as his favoured distraction technique.


Bernard
June 18, 2005
Daz, yes a bit of second thought did go into whether I should post it and after I did, you said yourself you'd chosen to ignore it; Decaf I seem to remember made a very brief comment that was humourous more than getting the thing started again, Chocolate wasn't even around; so why did it get started - the judge maybe? To be honest, what could explain the debate is that philosophy is an 'art' subject, so maybe there isn't a definite right or wrong answer like there is in some (though not all by any means) science debates. For example, it might be different to when it is known what chemical reaction occurs when chemical a is added under certain conditions to chemical b (maybe chemical c is produced). Instead perhaps there are different opinions that are still legitimate on the question of whether sophism is philosophy? Maybe there's no firm right or wrong answer, not definite yes or no? Just a thought.


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
Socrates,i posted awhile back when some AW new signing targets were revealed,Hleb being one of them,and i poited out that that this could be a smokescreen of subterfuge to detract attention away from the real targets - that AW had in mind thus putting Kenyon off of the scent. I reckon that AW would take Hleb if the price is right but he will not be getting himself involved in showcase final with the Chavs,the Trab scenario was a Dutch Auction i seem to recall with the Bar-codes participating?, these situatios force up the price of the player,the Bar-codes and Rooney being an example,the slickery agents love 'em of course!. Also you get a knock-on effect on wages and signing on terms etc - all of this to our disadvantage and to the Chavs advantage.We will just have to see how it all pans out in the end it can all get to be a little confuzzled. And like Tony Sporano said,hey if your gonna smoke cigars it's easier if you smoke only one at a time.


socrates
June 18, 2005
Cannon Balls.......I agree this Hleb story has all the hallmarks of a deal that isn't going to happen. It would appear that the two clubs are a long way apart on valuation (I say appears because none of us know exactly what Arsenal offered or Stuttgart wanted) and now the whole thing is being played out in the public domain which is never a good sign. It would not surprise me if AW is already chasing other targets.


Rotterdam Gooner
June 18, 2005
Here's the lovely Sandra again: http://www.bloggie.nl/archives/foto/Sandra_k2.JPG .She likes singing, dancing and cooking, seems she's pretty handy with them roasting sticks.


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
There is a touch of the deja vu's about the Alek Hleb signing saga reminiscent of the Hatem Trabelsi one at this time last summer.That dragged on for what seemed like an eternity to much ado about nothing in the end. I suspect that most supporters, given also the well known reticence of the club to release any information, are finding it difficult to work up any enthusiasm for this latest Hleb 'will he or wont he' sign for us episode of transfer transitorism. Another touch of the deja's is provided by Colgate - this time around replacing that old long running and fractious soap Vieiragate - which ended up with Roger the dodger, the chief culprit of the convoluted chicaneries involved, languishing in a Swiss prison cell, and everyone else living happily ever after, well perhaps not so Senor Perez? - who unlike the Candian Mounties never got his man. It may be wishful thinking to hope that the Colegate one reciprocates a similar conclusion for Coles staying - and for his agent Barnett the one that Vieiragate brought about for Roger the Dodger!


Daz
June 18, 2005
Except let's hope that being an idiot is not the criterion used, Rog or a fair number of us might get bumped off and one man's idiot is another's genius (unless it's chocolate in which case you've come about as close as possible to the universal idiot). I would hope that it is only for violation of clearly laid out rules which, anyway, the format of the new forum is designed to resolve. But thanks for all the hard work (again).


Warrior
June 18, 2005
Dubya wrote - "Maybe you could operate a similar scheme - new people would be allowed on, but if they start being idiots - then they are warned, and then removed. I am sure you could find some democratic & fair way of bumping them? Anyway, the new site looks good and should be a boon to the future of this great forum. See you on there!" - *** - Yes - We can do that on the new forum - Rog


Rotterdam Gooner
June 18, 2005
don't matter pizza, she collected her price from Robin


Daz
June 18, 2005
I might indeed, Bernard. But if I found the debate tedious and didn't want it to start again, I might think twice before posting their opinion. As you have brought it up and as it's Saturday morning and nobody is bursting at the seams to discuss Hleb, whether sophism is philosophy (as opposed to sophists being philosophers which I'm glad has at least now been conceded) depends almost entirely on what one thinks sophism is. Chocolate;'s starting position was that it means sophistry in its modern sense of devious or false argument. But it did not always have such negative connotations. You might argue that it is a means of winning an argument by fair means or foul or you might argue that it is a sceptical approach to established truth where nothing has the right to go unchallenged. Or you might argue it means nothing at all and there were only individual sophists. But only by chocolate's first definition could you argue with any conviction that it is, without exception, not philosophy. And you'll remember that chocolate refused to countenance that any form of sophism could be philosophy on the curious grounds that other philosophers attacked the sophists - which would presumably mean that because Nye Bevan called the Tories "lower than vermin" they were not politicians. But I'd be happy to admit that alongside the great Sophist philosophers there may well have been some who were simply - as their name suggests - professors. Which would move you on to a definition of philosopher since some might argue that Deepak Chopra is at the cutting edge of philosophy while I think he's just a money-grabbing charlatan who plays on the insecurities of the credulous. I don't have a strong opinion one way or another, by the way, on your Freddie-mania, we all have our little obsessions.


its only ray parlour
June 18, 2005
She won Miss Nigeria Holland. Not the overall award.


Rotterdam Gooner
June 18, 2005
First pics of the bird Robin's doing some time for, this is the genuine girl, her name is Sandra Boma Krijgsman and she's Miss Nigeria 2002, check this: http://www.missnigeriaonline.com/ .here she is again, contesting for miss universe: http://www.missholland.nl/deelneemsters.htm


Bernard
June 18, 2005
Not at all Daz. I did find the debate tedious, but being stuck next to a lecturer in philosophy it was a very obvious thing to ask despite that considering the debate that had raged here (hear, Mee). Even if you found the debate on Ljungberg tiresome and had no firm opinions on the debate yourself - and that was the position I was in because I had no firm opinions either way of whether sophism was philosophy, if you were stuck next to a lecturer on Ljungberg as a player, I'd still expect you to ask him or her what he or she thought. To me that's human nature, and it certainly washes for me.


Gee Dubya
June 18, 2005
Hi. A regular lurker on this site, and have been on to the new one for a sneeky peek. Maybe its because I have been lazy, but one of the main reasons I don't post on here is I do find the 'threads' difficult to follow, and the format of the messages difficult to read (please don't view that as just being downright critical!). This is a shame, I am a stalwart of the Mailing List, and do 'lurk' on AWIMB from time to time, but I do enjoy the level and intelligence of the debate on here (even if it does get a bit bitchy from time to time). Somewhere I read one of the regulars musing if there were some way to stop the 'rubbish' from posting. Well, Arseblog has put a block on his membership. Maybe you could operate a similar scheme - new people would be allowed on, but if they start being idiots - then they are warned, and then removed. I am sure you could find some democratic & fair way of bumping them? Anyway, the new site looks good and should be a boon to the future of this great forum. See you on there!


Daz
June 18, 2005
Then you're strange, Bernard (as if we needed a reminder) because most people who find a debate so tedious tend to go out of their way to avoid re-igniting it. Sorry, but that one doesn't wash at all, in fact it positively reeks of bad faith. If I said I found your endless repetition on the subject of Ljungberg tiresome, it would be disingenuous for me then to make a post saying "Oh I was just on the tube and I thought it might be interesting for the forum to know that a top football commentator was saying he thought Freddie was a really excellent player and indispensable to our squad. I don't really know whether he's right or not - it's just what I heard." and then adopt a kind of pipe-smoking bemusement that people were discussing it again.


Warrior
June 18, 2005
Hi Gaz - We gave made it so you can bookmark where you were and the it will go to the very last post with one click - you won't need to login - just use a bookmark - Bernard - Judith Gleiber will post a message as to when the new forum will be started. I may be able to put a timer on it to show in a real hour countdown whe it will switchover. - Rog ..


Pedro
June 18, 2005
Overmars cost £5.5m if I remember correctly, his price was reduced somewhat because of his dodgy knee, which luckily turned out to be fine of course..


AmericanGooner
June 18, 2005
Okay, 99% of you couldn't care less about footie development in the states but this article is interesting and echoed my thoughts about why its not as big as it should be. http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1508828,00.html


Thanks Pat Rice
June 18, 2005
As a matter of interest what did AW pay for Overmars? Memory serves or does it that not as much as is being asked for Hleb. Inflation – thought there was deflation excluding Chelski. If Almunia is on the way out AW is hardly likely to talk his price down so he is talking it up. I don’t think we have heard the names of the players we are going to sign yet. Just like the Baptista thing something will come out of the blue. Can't blame Aw being careful with the mazzuma, he has to keep a big lump back for a signing that will make a difference, sooner of later in a key position. ### The press are as usual making up stories to fill column inches, can talks have broken down (or close to) if RP7 is in the Caribbean? Last summer we had the suspense of not knowing - when PV4 was on holiday, because he was - apparently. I think it is likely a cute guy like RP7 will see out his contract and go back to France to be close to his media work.


Azinoz
June 18, 2005
clock End/Mee, I was born in '48 so I have witnessed the Dodgin's, Snedden's, Mccullough's and the years of mediocraty. I was at Wembly for both Leeds and Swindon and I I am sure I have no need to tell you we put up with that kind of crap for years (no disrespect to the players I mentioned intended)but now I am glad I went through all the pain ,humiliation and boredom because I can apprreciate what we have the PRIVELEDGE of watching now week after week and that is because of one man Arsene Wenger. To all those posters that critisise his tactical ability, his reluctance to spend big money, his record in Europe and such like, I say, Who gives a F>>k because I Know what I would prefer!!


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
It looks like Gungunge that you have been on the Arthurs again! go and get some sleep then you can wake up with your usual hangover and post some of your enlightening 'insightful' posts on matters like, hmm..let's see now, Wenger should copy Mourinhos defending in Europe, the days of big cup upsets are over whoops!, Abramovich just having been appointed a state governor,despite him having held the post for 5 years previous!, and not forgetting that classic, i hope youse finishes in front of Liverpool,Everton fan,i prefer youse to the scousers!. That is an all time classic gungunge,only you son, only you! And let's not forget your little outburst over the fake 'russian mafia' wind up post which you treated seriously! another hilirious one, Nurse!!! Nurse!!!! Cannonbawls flipped!!!! Well i reckon that's enough to be going on with for now Gungunge there's one thing i will say about you no matter how much you get battered on here and how big a mug you make of yourself a few Arthurs down you and bang your back for more! Mind you then again you have changed your handle a few times over the years, but who could blame you!!!!


Bernard
June 18, 2005
Rog, would it be possible to post a warning on this forum to let us know when the other one is formally opening again? Maybe giving notice of a day or two of the time and day when the change will happen, and if so, perhaps elaborating what time zone (Australia presumably) you're using so that those of us in other parts of the world can recalculate (GMT in my case).


AmericanGooner
June 18, 2005
But Gaz, it works doesn't it? Look at who has come to the club over the last few years. There must be a method to his madness, so to speak. Bottomline is, it works.


Gunfire
June 18, 2005
"Well eye-candy the Glazers ain't that's for sure!" Bet you're a real looker Cannon Bull. Looks and intellect WOW!


Gaz ( B/Wood )
June 18, 2005
Socrates-I appreciate that Arsene treats our money like it's his own, but sometimes it just seems that our opening bid is so low its pointless. I also keep hearing that we do all our deals in absolute secrecy to stop sides from knowing what we're up to, yet surely putting in woefully low, and ultimately unsucessful bids simply allerts everyone to what we're doing? Just seen some video of Julio Babtista by the way. He Looks very good and can see why he's called the beast-he's huge! Read quite a few reports of him on Arsenal-mania and not one person has given him anything but a glowing report. Come on Arsenal.


socrates
June 18, 2005
Gaz (B/Wood)......there is very little happening in the transfer market at present and it is a case of not quite knowing what to believe half the time. There have been rumours of us having a big transfer kitty, I think the club's board have said that Wenger has money to spend, but AW is incredibly shrewd and refuses to get involved in bidding wars and paying over the odds. I think there are probably a handful of players who, if available, he would pay big money for. The rest he will only pay what he feels is the right sort of price. If, as the papers suggest (and frankly how do they know) his opening gambit in the Hleb offer is £4-5m then I am a little suprised at how low it is but I guess eventually the two sides will find some middle ground at £6-8m. If not Wenger will simply walk away.


Bernard
June 18, 2005
Daz, I most certainly did not toss that one in with every intention of it provoking another row. I bet I find the subject far more tedious than you, and did then also. I simply thought some people here (or should I say 'hear' for Mee's sake) may find it interesting that he said sophism wasn't philosophy even though some sophists may have been philosophers. I also didn't know enough about the subject to even think of asking him whether he felt there was no such thing as sophism, although being he said it wasn't philosophy rather than saying it didn't exist might imply he thinks there is such a thing (though I can't be sure on that). I'm quite prepared to accept that sophism may have stronger links to philosophy than hospital administration, even if he's right and sophism isn't philosophy. But he clearly didn't think those stronger links (if you're right about them) are strong enough (in his view) to make sophism philosophy.


socrates
June 18, 2005
XXX......You really are a sad little muppet or put more eloquently, an intellectually challenged little spuds fan. Please don't stop with your incredibly enlightening posts.


Gaz ( B/Wood )
June 18, 2005
Can there be any better feeling (not!) than reading back a post (or two!) and thinking 'what was I talking about then!' Its the heat (and boy is it hot)-thats my excuse!!! So the Hleb deal has been delayed has it? Not surprised to be honest. When you go in with a totally unaceptably low bid what do you expect? I keep hearing that the moneys going to start 'flooding in' to our Club soon, but I simply dont see any evidence of it happening. Low bids and failure to sort out new contracts just smacks me of a Club still very much watching the pennies. Dont get me wrong, I'm not expecting £20-30m bids for players, and I'm not expecting us to give players 100k a week, but if we do have some money comimg in I do expect us to at least start the bidding for players at a reasonable level, and if that fails to go back in there, quickly, with an offer that both parties will be happpy with. It seems to me that if we'd offered the right ammount for Hleb he'd be an Arsenal player by now, yet by farting around we now risk the chance of Trappatoni changing his mind! As for contracts, and once again, if we have some money couldnt we condemn, to the dustbin this ridiculous policy of giving one year deals to players over 30. RP7 is one of the great goal-scoring midfielders in world football and we're risking losing him for one paltry (in football terms) year. Its ridiculous and as I heard very recently TH14 will be pushing 30 soon and are we going to risk losing him over an extra year too? I bloody well hope not! So come on Arsenal. Give Bobby that extra year, sort out AC3 (its not too late) and start putting in 'propper' bids for players we're after. Talking of which I most definately like the sound of this Babiste, but a bid of 50 quid most certainly wont secure his services!!!. Come on Arsenal.


Gaz ( B/Wood )
June 18, 2005
Rog: Sorry to be a pain but I also notice that if you do click on the smaller icon to go to the latest post first you have to then scroll up the page. When you then get to the top you click on the next page and then have to scroll all the way back to the bottom to pick up the next post, and then scroll back up! Is it me or does this seem overly complicated? Couldnt it be done so that when you click on next page you automatically go to the very next post, even if its at the bottom of the page? Mind you thats on the basis that most people want to read the latest post back! Once again I'm honestly not moaning for moaning sake but this, for me is (sorry to sound selfish) the main thing that would make the new forum easier for me to use. Thanks again. Come on Arsenal.


XXX
June 18, 2005
Torres,Hleb...and Kirkland.Honest Socrates you gullible mug


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
Well eye-candy the Glazers ain't that's for sure! But if you looking for 3 Snowhites dwarfs look-a-likes ? then with Malcom wearing a big wooly hat and baggy check pants that look like they were once worn by dopey then hey they are your men! And if you want to see your season ticket price sprog faster than the mercury in a thermometre thats been plunged into boiling hot water then yep chizzy!!!! And if your tired of that boring old name at your club hey no big deal hombre - before you can say pass me the ketchup buddy woot! it's the been renamed The Big Mac Stadium smelling of regular fries and serving red and black M'c Donald milkshakes that are so thick that you have to suck them through a petrol syphon pipe! Now you may also want to see some big star players signed no problem pal last week they had one sign in a blaze of publicity shown on WW TV, some dude called Roy Keane,they say he will go far, er..straight up to Glasgow to join Celtic before Christmas! And if you like your club to have loads of money,well Malcom in his big wooly hat and baggy check pants with his fantastic smile will oblige,£590million, phew! that's a ginormous sum to bring to the club and the good news is it's all been borrowed by Malcom! What more could the muppet supporters want and Malcoms asked the drunken jock,now wearing a ten gallon Stetson to stay on for ever! Their cup at the theatre of dreams truely runneth over, but say are those birds i see circling around in the setting sun - Seagulls?..or Vultures..


Daz
June 18, 2005
Tell it to the marines, Bernard. You tossed that one in with every intention of it provoking another row. I didn't respond to it back then because even I find the subject intensely tedious now. But the issue would simply be to explore what your philosophy lecturer meant by the term 'sophism'. He might have a case if he said there was no such thing - only individual sophists but I think a counter-case could be made. There may well have been sophists who weren't philosophers but we really only know about the ones who were so it seems an utterly moot point and chocolate was, anyway, arguing that sophists (and he excluded nobody) had nothing to do with philosophy as he understands it. Which isn't very well. Your own example, by the way, was a weak one as there is no particular link between hospital administrators and philosophy. There is, however, a very clear link between the group of intinerant scholars and teachers known as sophists and philosophical developments in Athens in the 5th Century BC. In particular a sceptical method of enquiry which has been the cornerstone of later philosophical method and which was covered in a chapter of the History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell and praised for its intellectual merit. This whole debate is utter E*Gs - it's like playing table tennis with a man with no arms.


Gaz ( B/Wood )
June 18, 2005
Rog: I'm going to give the new forum a proper try, without moaning, but wonder if there is one thing you could do? I notice that when you click onto the forum you seem to go to the last post. One of the beauties of the old forum was that when you logged in you went to the very latest post, and then scrolled back. Maybe I'm on my own here but I find that realy usefull especially when trying to catch up on the very latest news quickly. Is there any way this could be incorperated into the new forum? If it cant be done, or no-one else wants it thats fair enough and I'll just have to get used to it. Cheers. Come on Arsenal.


AmericanGooner
June 18, 2005
El Presidente, he was probably NOT voted most popular or 'best personality' at his high school. He seems like one of these geeks that knows finance. Is comfortable with numbers but not with people. **** Reyes supposedly lobbying for him should put the rest that he'll leave this summer as well.


Bernard
June 18, 2005
Daz, the essence of my point is most certainly not whether there is any such thing as sophism. I simply don't have a strong view on the subject one way or the other. Because of your debate with chocolate on whether sophism was philosophy, I simply asked a philosophy lecturer I met whether that was the case and told you what he said. That's all, and I haven't even given a moments thought to whether there is such a thing as sophism. Judge, maybe you could make note also that I don't actually have a strong opinion on the subject.


Socrates
June 18, 2005
XXX.....first time was mildly amusing, you are just looking like a complete twat now.


Jimbo
June 18, 2005
Well this Baptista fella sound very good from all the reviews i have been reading, what does everyone think of him on the forum? Obviously D.Gooner rates him. What type of player is he? Who could he be compared to to give me an idea? and is he better than other rumoured targets such as torres?


dublin gooner
June 18, 2005
well, what do you know, just like i had hoped, we are linked with baptista. seems he doesnt want to go to madrid or barcelona either, and with the buccaneers the only other english club linked with him at the moment, it isnt looking so bad for us. just hope chelsea dont try one of their famous price skyrocketing manoeuvres. would be a great signing. perhaps reyes would help to swing it in our favour. we have been linked with sevilla players a fair bit for the past couple of seasons, pity jesus navas has now signed a new contract there with a massive buy out clause, apparently something like 60 million.


XXX
June 18, 2005
Okay Torres to sign tomorrow with Hleb Just for you socrates you mug


its only ray parlour
June 18, 2005
El Presidente: I thought so too, very strange indeed.


GOONER
June 18, 2005
Message for Trappatoni: Stand aside old man! We want Hleb, he wants to join us and your team is just plain dodgy. Dont stand in the way of progress.


El Presidente
June 18, 2005
Is it me or is Malcolm Glazer 'special'? As in 'Special Needs' that is. Every time I've seen him he's had that moronic grin on his face and trousers secured round his chest. All that's missing are food stains and saliva dribbling from his mouth a la Wayne Slobb. Curious indeed.


Long Time Gooner
June 18, 2005
Rog. Will all the old new registrations be moved over automatically to the new new forum (if you see what I mean)?


Long Time Gooner
June 18, 2005
Yippie!!!! What a great weekend. I get to see my lovely avatar again. Thanks Rog.


Mee
June 18, 2005
Rog; The new site looks very much like the old ‘new’ site. I haven’t given it a road test yet - but I am feeling very positive about this latest model. Well done Rog and the other guys.


Mee
June 18, 2005
I have a feeling that Trappatoni will have a view on keeping Hleb. He is unlikely to stand aside and watch his star player walk into the Marble halls.


AmericanGooner
June 18, 2005
As far as the price for Hleb, as I said, we ALWAYS start out with a low bid. Was it 5 mil we originally offered for Reyes? Pedro and others, we get our man most of the time don't we? Stop worrying, Wenger will get his man but he won't over pay for him. We're not Chelsea or Man United States. **** Harlow Steve, they won the title with the least number of points for a champion as well in '55. My prediction is we we'll beat them in the CS and they'll suffer a lot of draws early and struggle with losses to a few clubs like Bolton, Blackburn or even the scum. I was also one of those guys in the park in Philly around that time..hehehe **** reds. I don't hate Liverpool at all, unlike a lot of gooners LFC are farther down my list. I'll certainly put Man Yoo, Chelsea, Tottenham, Bolton, Blackburn (after this season) ahead of you lot


AmericanGooner
June 18, 2005
Brazil 70. Edu didn't expect to start when he came here. When you come to Arsenal from a non G14 club and I would exclude some of the present G14 members as no longer in the elite (Porto, Dortmund and Leverkusen for example) you don't expect to walk into the starting XI. At your first training session its obvious how much quaility is on the pitch. You know you have to fight to get minutes. Pires came with a fairly big reputation from Marseille and didn't start right away for example. I am fairly confident he'll get a fair amount of minutes after an adjustment period. I think he'll be fine. If Edu hadn't been picked up by the Brazilian national team I think he would have been okay with a subs role. Hleb will be selected for Belorus even if he's on the bench because he's clearly one of their best players. Even if we had given Edu the money he wanted, we couldn't promise him a starting position. Especially with Fabregas emerging and Silva being a key component to our defense. We were in a catch-22. We couldn't keep both him and Silva happy. Edu had to go. As for Hleb, Edu wasn't tried and tested player when he came here. All reports indicate that Hleb is farther along in development than Edu was when he came here. I've seen Hleb play in the Belorus game v. Scotland and he looks like he could flourish with us. Trust Wenger this time. **** Thanks Michael in Amsterdam, but morality aside, where should you take a woman you met at the club? His wife is at his house. A hotel is the best place. Athletes do one night stands all the time. RvP was just unlucky. How many have Best had and what percentage were nut cases who cried rape?


Mickey
June 18, 2005
Somebody was talking about bad fashion from players. Well what about Van Persie and his green/white striped trousers the day he was paraded on the pitch when he first joined. Even Freddie in his "technicolour dream coat" cant match that.


Judge JohnD
June 18, 2005
Ralph: so you arrived just in time to witness ManUsa winning the title; still your first birthday celebrations righted that situation. Have to admit to my first game being before you were born. I also saw both Denis Compton and Arthur Milton playing for England at that other game you mention; did EEG report on his performance? In fact the tap-dance I'm doing around chocolate is quite impressive under the circumstances. Shows you what a fifties, London grammar school education does for you.. ennit choco. Just back from Waitrose freak; no monkfish today but got my free range spare ribs for the barbie, the dry cured bacon and topped off by the Bury black pudding ring at 0.99p. Now that makes me an epicurean Judge but, an Epicurean Judge would be altogether more ancient and probably would support AEK . Simple really, but somehow strangely complicated.


Warrior
June 18, 2005
He's not anonymous to me EEG - But I don't want to post Ip's - *** Also, I'm working on the new forum - if anyone wants to have a peek: http://202.181.21.81/arsenal *** - It isn't recommended to make any posts on this other forum yet - but you are welcome to look and email arsenal@fl.net.au with any comments - Rog ...


East End Gooner
June 18, 2005
"btopenworld user from Bletchley" is not exactly a DNA profile is it Rog??!! I'd say his anonymity is all but intact!


Exiled In Newcastle
June 18, 2005
I know the club are trying to encourage people not to drive to the new satdium but this is going a bit far... http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/content/islington/gazette/news/story.aspx?brand=ISLGOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsislg&itemid=WeED17%20Jun%202005%2014%3A13%3A28%3A810


GoonerForever
June 18, 2005
Cheers Babu lmao! The comments from people who don't realise its a wind-up were classic!


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
Cheers Rog.


Warrior
June 18, 2005
And Anonymous is a bit less anonymous now - Rog ...


Pedro
June 18, 2005
It does rather irritate me the way the club bids low (usual strategy to keep price down) but instead of following it up with several slightly higher bids until a price is agreed we seem to leave it for some time, I really dont understand what we are trying to achieve by doing this..


Cannon Balls
June 18, 2005
Days Gone By,rather poetical that handle,yes that uppercut that Grimandi landed on the crazed and vile Simeone's jaw is the stuff of legend. I have always felt that the particular type of grittiness that he bought to the side in times of need was never replaced after he sadly departed the club. I was disappointed actually to hear AW banging on, yet again!, about the players suffering from museum head syndrome after the OT defeat and being so flusterplatted by it that they all craughed up for six months afterwards! This might go someway to explaining our attitude toward European games when all too often we have lacked at times what appears to be a winning or fighting mentality,that's when someone like Grimandi can induce a bit of fire into the proceedings! We have plenty of flair - but a little more fire is needed at times. Perhaps this German with some of that well known, sssssh! whisper it quitely - teotonic arrogance can provide it??? That is supposing of course that he joins us rather than taking Scottie Parkers vacant place on the subs bench at the Chavs rathole in Fulham...


fried slice
June 18, 2005
If its true that arsenal only bid 4.5 million for Hleb then i dont they are serious about signing anybody and i doubt their ambititions in the CL.What a bunch of jokers.


Warrior
June 18, 2005
Cannon Balls - I edited those posts indicating they weren't from you - Rog ..


Rob K
June 18, 2005
socrates - surely you're not implying that Almunia isnt a world class keeper (even Bernard's blind faith in AFC keepers would stop short of that)


babu
June 18, 2005
Just thought I`d post this link. It really is very funny, and the comments are hilarious !!! Start at archives, enjoy. http://spaces.msn.com/members/ManchesterBuccaneers/


socrates
June 18, 2005
Rob K.......can we assume then that no worldclass keeper will be arriving at Highbury this summer?


Rob K
June 18, 2005
Oh joy - Almunia is staying with us ... http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2005270679,00.html


Rob K
June 18, 2005
If Rover were any good in the air or indeed at set pieces it would be automatically disqualified from joining us.


tom c
June 18, 2005
This dog at the training ground Rob - is it any good in the air do we know?

Rob K
June 18, 2005


I should have added that to my list of 'nightmare summer' - endless excitement of a press conference shortly followed by dashing of hopes when it turns out no press conference was ever planned and only a man walking his dog is wondering around the training ground.


Jay
June 18, 2005
Most players think that more money means bigger. I guess that is probably the case now. Robben would probably be shocked if you showed him video's of what Chelsea were like not so long ago. Still his comment must have sent Spurs fans wild with anger. So not all bad news then.


harlow steve
June 18, 2005
One final thing... I was looking at soem of my old handbooks, back from the early fities... You look at the champions adn see the goals against coloum, they used to let 60/70 goals a season in, very few teams at the top let in less that 50 as season... Blimey the media would have a field day at defences... Having said that pleanty of teams scored 90/100 a season... 6-4's 5-3's 4-4's 5-5's were common place... You would beat a team 5-1 one week and lose 6-2 the next...


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 18, 2005
Harlow: how cud i call the Kelsey 'kack'. The J & K keys are too close together on keyboard and eyes were too misty for me to see the spellcheck, ha! This weekend I will be at Kent County Ground-Beckenham to watch my 16 yr old daughter in the England cricket SUPER4s trials. Top 44 women competing in 4 teams each day. The Aussies are coming over for Ashes series. See you all at Hove for 1st test Aug 9th-12th. Still smiling Arsene.... write those cheques!


Mee
June 18, 2005
Gunfire: I saw that quote last week - what arrogance! It shows that Chelsea’s new recruits are simply mercenaries with an eye for a quick rouble and having no idea of the history of either the club they are joining or the one they left behind.


Davy
June 18, 2005
Picture of Van Persie on the Arsenal World site. Is it just me or does he appear to have freakishly long arms? Yes I am that bored.


Paul N
June 18, 2005
I do recall Petit's suit from 1997. What about Grimandi in his duffel coat in the club shop catalogue? Another fashion highlight. Freddie must be the king of Highbury fashion though. Anyone ever seem him that giant tea cosy hat? The following day he took it off to reveal his red stripe hair for the very first time. What a style Icon! I once saw him in London wearing a similar hat and a multicolour trench coat, looking very much like Sylvester McCoy in Dr Who. Makes a nice change to Ashley Cole who I saw in a hoody, baggy jeans and a reverse Baseball Cap. Come on Ashley try a bit harder mate. Still he is a Chavski lover so I guess it was to be expected.


Steve c/o Coldiz
June 18, 2005
RALPH,hi I´m buzing round central europe but can tell you with Helb,he is a really amazing player and I do´nt think most people realise this,okay ugly a sin but boy can he play,what I can´t understand is the price,it seems far too LOW.If you had asked me atfer chrimbo I´d of said at least 14 mil.The midfield would become so fluid they´d be bottling it up and selling it in clear water plastic bottles.He´s not Maradonna or Aimar,he´s a one bad assed Robert Pires with an attitude and no time to spare.His only fault is he doesnt score enough(could change) and he does nt release the ball quick enough.....up to now(hopefully.


Gunfire
June 18, 2005
This is from Arjen Robben on Arnesen's move to Chavski -"I don't know what his reasons are but if you can make the step up from Tottenham to a top club like Chelsea I think that it's not a difficult decision,". Arjen should look at his club's history. It should take him two minutes to see the stupidity of that comment. I don't know who said Chavski are a good and fair club but it MAY be true but their supporters always struck me as scumbags.


Days gone by
June 18, 2005
On this day in 1997 we signed Overmars, Petit and Grimandi. We'll never see the likes of those days again. Ohhh, happier times when Wenger and Arsenal spent proper money on real players. Although none of us new who Grimandi was back then we would soon be treated to his unique ability both in defence and midfield. Who can forget the time he whacked Simeone in Rome and got away with it? Ps: remember Petit in that blue suit? People really new how to dress back then. Will we ever see Torres or Robinho standing with Wenger holding a club scarf above their heads and dressed in such fine style?


Gunfire
June 18, 2005
The Beast has a strike rate of over a goal every 2 games in La Liga and europe last season. He is big strong and fast and if we are after him maybe Arsene is coming around to the idea of a bruiser up front for when we are a goal down with 10 mins to go or we are facing the cavemen from Bolton and Blackburn. I'd love him to sign.


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Perhaps even number!


Mee
June 17, 2005
Ralph Interesting post - I remember the peanuts as well!


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Bluey, any nuber of apocalypic events could transpire at 4-30 this afternoon,i might only require two more winners to win the Jackpot at Royal Ascot,Abramovich might call a press-conference to announce that he is returning all of the money that he's stolen from the the Russian people,Spuds to say that they are signing Henry and Ronaldinho and cutting the price of season tickets in half down at 'the lane that time forgot, the drunken jock announcing that he is giving up drinking wine after matches,just the whisky from now on, the car-thieves will give the money that they have just filched from other EPL clubs back and... whoops was that a pig that juat flew past my window????


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Bluey, any nuber of apocalypic events could transpire at 4-30 this afternoon,i might only require two more winners to win the Jackpot at Royal Ascot,Abramovich might call a press-conference to announce that he is returning all of the money that he's stolen from the the Russian people,Spuds to say that they are signing Henry and Ronaldinho and cutting the price of season tickets in half down at 'the lane that time forgot, the drunken jock announcing that he is giving up drinking wine after matches,just the whisky from now on, the car-thieves will give the money that they have just filched from other EPL clubs back and... whoops was that a pig that juat flew past my window????


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Well the weathermen are predicting an heatwave in the UK over the next few days so it looks like Steve is right about the summer. This is the time to bring over the South Americans and to show them around the Costa Del Highbury and AG springing up in sunny Holloway!


bluey
June 17, 2005
Cannon - Is there a press conference at 4.30 today?


harlow steve
June 17, 2005
Ralph, did you not like the Kelsey lad, I mean calling him kack... the rest spot on mate... The Arsenal of today, I used to dream about when I was a lad growing up, apart from the £2590 for two season tickets and the club not being able to supply a redcurrrent toddlers football without a 5/6 week delay, yet advertise it...


harlow steve
June 17, 2005
During Football season, dear boy, during the football season...


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 17, 2005
Mee: I was born May 1952, so enjoyed the miserable 60's when the ball was huge and spent my weekends leaving Whitechapel for either Highbury or White Hart Lane. As Cockneys I suppose we should have wandered down to West Ham, but they were miles away while Highbury was 'passed down' to me by my Dad. Grew up suffering the Cockeral Double (61), Swindon at Wembley before the blinding 'moment' of Charlie George (71). We have come as a club a long, long way from the days of the terrace and the peanut seller ("tanner a bag") and Sargeant Williams and his Brass Police Band at half time. Mr Wenger has dragged us all kicking & screaming from mediocrity and acceptance of second place behind Liverpool & ManU for most of the time to the constant dizzy heights of the current era on a shoestring. We are leaving behind loads of memories, but one of the main things we are leaving behind is Tottenham Hotspur forever. I welcome Ashburton Grove as a tribute to Mr Wenger and the current Board. It is their club and I am happy to observe how well they and their staff have done. Move over Real Madrid. Kack Kelsey, Alex James, Alan Skirton, Cliff Holton and George Armstrong had their day..... Bless 'em, but the future beckons. I cannot wait for this season to begin.


harlow steve
June 17, 2005
victory at all costs, vistory in spite of terror, vitory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival...


Exiled In Newcastle
June 17, 2005
Suffering from a memory lapse. Who is it that's always complaining about non-football posts on here?


Alex
June 17, 2005
And those 3 are? Any clues?


harlow steve
June 17, 2005
Well no real football to discuss, only rumours of transfers and problems with players... Me I'm looking forward to the weekend, hopefully a quite one with a few Arsenal transfers, the three that i know will go through... So it was over to Bow lane to the butchers, and Burgers, steak kebabs, ribs, sausages (various) kofters adn four very large thick juicy steaks... Wifes getting the beer and pimms in and the week end id barbie time, flames not dolls) You all have a good weekend now... to get in the mood...School is out and it's sort of a buzz But back then I didn't really know what it was But now I see what happened is the way people respond to summer madness The weather is hot and girls dressing less And checking out the fellas to tell 'em who's best Riding around in your jeep or your Benzo's or in your Nissan sitting on Lorenzos Back in Philly we be out in the park A place called the plateau is where everybody go Guys out hunting and girls doing likewise Honking at the honey ni front of you with teh light eyes She turned around to see what you beepin' at It's like summer's a natural aphrodisiac With a pen-n-pad I composed this rhyme To hip you and get you equipped for the summertime Chorus But what about a groove that soothes to move romance Give me a soft subtle mix And if it broke then don't try fix it And think of summers of the past Adjust the bass and let the alpine blast Pop in my CD and let me run a rhyme And put your car on cruise and lay back 'Cause it's summertime Chorus It's last in the day and I ain't been on the count yet Hustled to the mall to get me a short set Yeah I got on sneaks But I need a new pair 'Cause basketball courts in the summer get girls there The temperature about 88 Hop in the water plug just for old time sake Break to ya' crib change your clothes once more 'Cause you're invited to a barbecue startin' at 4 Sittin' with your friends as ya'll reminisce About the days growing up and the first person you kissed And as I think back makes me wonder how The smell from a grill can spark up a nostalgia All the kids, playing up front Little boys messin' around with the girls playing double dutch While the DJ's spinnin' a tune As the old folks dance at your family reunion Then six o'clock rolls around You just finish wiping your car down It's time to cruise so you go to the summertime hang out It looks like a car show Everybody come lookin' real fine Fresh from the barber shop and fly from the beauty salon Every moment frontin' and maxin' Chillin' in the car they spent all day waxing Leaning to the side but you can't speed through 2 miles an hour so everybody sees you There's an air of love and happiness And this is the Fresh Prince's new definition of summer madness


Parkerknoll Gooner
June 17, 2005
Welcome Toni, are you by chance in the same class as chocolate?


Toni Barbet
t.barbet99@grainville.sch.je
June 17, 2005
Hi i think Arsenal iz da best and i have supportied them all my life. Love U all (Arsenal Players) Love Toni Barbet (Jersey)


Mee
June 17, 2005
Ralph - okay you‘ve had your three bob‘s worth - you must be challenging my status as the oldest duffer on here if you can remember Kelsey in goal! Did you see Tapscott or Dodgin or Cliff Holton?


Mee
June 17, 2005
Rob K: Forget your dream summer- its now a dream afternoon and I’m afraid even that will remain a dream. How many more of these false dawns can we expect ?


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 17, 2005
My GleiberName above contains the amount of money it took in late 50’s, early 60’s to gain entrance to the Clock End. Jack Kelsey was in goal and I even got to see Sir Stanley Matthews in the flesh in a Stoke shirt if memory serves me right. Billy McCullough was the bow-legged left full back who allowed Matthews to jink thru the match without even threatening a tackle. There was respect on view in abundance that day as we all knew one mistimed tackle would have ended Matthews’ career immediately. It was around this time, Arsenal acquired GEORGE EASTHAM who became my idol. A skinny inside forward (GE10, I suppose) who floated across the mud and pinged the ball around with ease and grace. He made me smile by showing how easy the game of football really was. Later on in my teens I saw another genius called LIAM BRADY who, though slight in build, had a vision to behold and the skill to provide. I have yearned for the day that Arsenal would have another player of this type. A playmaker (Zola), a constant probe (Aimar), a nuisance (Strachan), a focal point (Zidane) who would arrive to excite the fans at Highbury and beyond, Thierry HENRY makes me smile. Robert PIRES makes me smile. Francesc FABREGAS really makes me smile. The thought of adding a new EASTHAM or BRADY to this squad in the final season at HIGHBURY. PRICELESS. If ALEXANDER HLEB is that man, then Mr WENGER will be surrounded by many smiling faces and no amount of money the Russians and Americans have will be able to wipe our smiles off as we see the fruits of Arsene’s efforts walk out onto the new hallowed Ashburton Grove pitch to celebrate 10 years of Denis BERGKAMP. PTBAG always smiling.


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Yes Rog' my one is AOL i NEVER post from anywhere else on here. I do not like the rape one which is disgraceful and sick - the others could be passed off as jokes though their purpose is of course more insidious and i resent my handle being used.


Warrior
June 17, 2005
Cannon Balls - Are you seeing fake posts then ? *** Yours is an AOL IP address - The other person is an Energis user .. - Rog..


Rob K
June 17, 2005
AW must have seen my 'dream summer' posting. He really is quick off the mark. I'm very excited. Let it be a good one.


Darren
June 17, 2005
There's a rumour going round on Arsenal World that Torres will be signing. Apparently he's at the training ground. Probably a load of garbage, but that would be a nice end to a pony week.


GoonerForever
June 17, 2005
http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3696650 Hope the Baptista rumour is true- would give us cover both as a striker (who can head the ball!) and in midfield in absence of Edu.


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Another fake post from the pervert who posted the rape one in my handle. What kind of a sickmind makes jokes about something like that?


Chippy's Chisler
June 17, 2005
Rob K I think we still need another CB unless Eboue or Hoyte can cover.


Rob K
June 17, 2005
Nightmare summer - RVP case goes to trial, Cole leaves and we rely on we do not buy replacement, Pires leaves as no 2 yr contract is offered, we dont sign a worthy keeper, we dont sign any of Baptista, Robinhio, Hleb, SWH, Torres, Owen but get a statement from AW saying that - he doesnt need any players and that Flamini, Clichy & Almunia will fill the gaps left.


Rob K
June 17, 2005
Dream summer - RVP case collapses, keep Cole, new contract for Pires, TH14 stays and tells Ronaldinhio that the partnership is on if he joins us, we sign Abbiati or other proven keeper, we sign a couple of - Baptista, Robinhio, Hleb, SWH, Torres, Owen.


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
I've just had a call telling me that a press conference has been arranged at the training groung at 4.30pm.


Chippy's Chisler
June 17, 2005
Watched the Confed Cup match live last night and was struck by the many similarities in style between Brazil and Arsenal. Brazil though try to beat the player in a dribble while Arsenal beat the player by playing it around him. Have to say though I think Brazil would beat us even with Roque Junior at CB. Liked the new Gilberto in midfield (anyone know anything about him)and thought Robinho was good -similar to SWP but 25% better. Adriano was muck until his wonder goal.


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Oh by the way Gungunge that post from Jeremy Beadle was not me,though i do of course fully endorse with it's sentiments descibing yourself. In fact it would be impossible to make a case against it! Paint drys faster than your brain can react pal!!!


Daz
June 17, 2005
Actually, chocolate, I am not relying on any such argument - you're just getting me mixed up with JohnD who has given you a bit of a battering. Bernard: I suppose the essence of your point is whether there is any such thing as "sophism" at all. That's a debate but not one I can be arsed to have. It doesn't really have much to do with the orignal argument but that has now become so infantile and is conducted on such dishonest terms that I would rather staple my foreskin to chocolate's ear than have it again. The one thing you will have to learn chocolate is that a) noisily asserting something to be true and b) it being true are two quite separate issues. There was no 'argument' to win over Russell as I simply quoted what he said and suggested that he knew a lot more than you on the subject. The latter is almost certainly true since, as far as I know, he never had to resort to copying chunks of other people's writing into his work without the use of quotation marks or crediting a source. In that case, I'm kind of unwilling to take any of your evaluations on anybody's mental abilities particularly seriously.


Jeremy Beadle
June 17, 2005
Azinoz, i make you right on the Chelsea situation try telling that knobhead Gunfire about it though.


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 17, 2005
On the EDU gone for nowt and HLEB arriving (?) for dosh issue; I heard a German correspondent say that HLEB is a box to box player whose style is in the same mould as a MARADONA or an AIMAR. Not as a probing striker in the DB10 mould, but collecting the ball from midfield and making surging runs at defenders causing (hopefully) gaps to appear for others to exploit. Chap went on to say HLEB would have more assists than goals at the end of a season, but suggests his future Arsenal team mates each would definitely enjoy a higher goal tally. So perhaps, HLEB sounds like a speedier, more proactive EDU who could continuously terrorise opponents from deep, has a good engine and does not require the long ball approach which Mr Wenger hates, especially when we are under pressure. Sounds like a good swap! Mr Wenger is currently in Germany commentating for French TV on Confed Cup and watching the Argies and Brazilian squads. Lots of cheap scouting methinks!


Darren
June 17, 2005
I see that Hleb's current side, Stuttgart, have just appointed Trappatoni as their new manager. If ony we had someone on the forum who could claim to be an expert in all things, "il Trap".


Judge JohnD
June 17, 2005
I'll think about chocolate - he's worrying me, in the meanwhile, Bernard: I realise the fraught that exists when trying to expand someone like chocolate's horizons but I will give it a go with you and continue my theme. Some cynics are just sarcastic old geezers but that does not mean that The Cynics are not recognized as a school of philosophy; some epicures just like grilled monkfishish and a glass of expensive Muscadet -remind you of anyone? - but that does not mean The Epicureans…; some stoics are just impassive individuals but that does not mean The Stoics - getting there?…; some sceptics, but no, I'm sure by now you can do sceptics and Sceptics for yourself - maybe even sophists and Sophists or Plankists and planks. I know we have some teachers out there, and this is a bit of a risk because some of you kind souls do tend to sympathise with a loser, but could we have someone who is not a red rag explain to the bull what is the difference between common and proper nouns before the penny drops and he flounces off in embarrassment for another six months. He, obviously, is too wary of the answer to take up my Google suggestion.


JamesLT
June 17, 2005
BRAZIL 70: Do you mean the "relatively unknown, untried" player we're chasing who is already seen as second only to Michael Ballack in the major European league in which he currently plays, who at 24 is the talisman of his national team, and who is already experienced at Champions League and UEFA Cup level, including running the likes of Manchester United ragged?


Azinoz
June 17, 2005
Reds,In all honesty, Chelsea who have been in the past IMO a good and fair club are now an absolute disgrace. I have no problems with their wealth because it really isn't much different to UTD's time at the top of the tree but it's the way they seem to be conducting their affairs with absolute no regard for the rules, fans, or the benefit of the game that I can't stand. I don't care how much the Russian has, because he is not bigger than the game and at some time it will collapse around him. Public opinion is the most lethal weapon of all and most of the public are football supporters not Chelsea fans - it's only a matter of time.


East End Gooner
June 17, 2005
Either that or I have moved. A bit tired if the truth be told Bernard. And unfortunately some of us dont finish at 11.00 on Fridays. Actually, are you even still here?!


Azinoz
June 17, 2005
Reds, up until we stuffed UTD totally "undeservedly" in the FA cup final and recovered (in my view)some "deserved" revenge for past "undeserved" defeats, they were my most hated team but since then I have conquered that obsession of hatred and am now proud to admit I can't fxxxxxxg stand stand them regardless of past results.


Bernard
June 17, 2005
Brazil 70, as you say you haven't seen Hleb play; so maybe Hleb is simply better than Edu?


Brazil 70
June 17, 2005
American-That is my point.If we could not offer Edu enough playing time to keep him, are we saying Hleb would settle for less or has he been offered assurances on this point? I have not seen Hleb play so do not know how he compares to Edu, but I presume he would need to understand how he would fit in before signing & would not want to come to Arsenal to understudy Cesc ,Flamini or whoever (as he is an international too).Consequently,has he been given assurances not given to Edu (if as you say that was the reason Edu left)It still appears we have let a current brazilian international in his prime (tried & tested in the EPL) go for nothing & are planning to spend Circa £7m on an realatively unknown ,untried Belarus international to replace him.Explain how that is not poor business.


Bernard
June 17, 2005
East East End is presumably a newcomer to the forum.


East East End
June 17, 2005
I guess Chocolate is trying to teach us a new take on the "does it still exist if I cant see it" argument. Something along the lines of "if me gone how is it you can still hear me". Or "how many times do me need to be gone before me stop posting".


Bernard
June 17, 2005
Judge, I must be honest I found your question rather strange. Using your analogy as I understood it, I can see no reason why a hospital administrator cannot be a plankist, just as there's no reason why someone who sails a boat cannot be either. But does that necessarily mean hospital administration is plankism? Without precise definitions of the terms, as I again understand the way you're using them, I'd say it doesn't. That was the point the philophy lecturer made. Some sophists may well have been philosophers, but that does not make sophism philosophy. Some hospital administrators may be philosophers too; but that again does not make hospital administration philosophy.


harlow steve
June 17, 2005
50 years ago Chelsea won their first Championship, the season after they came 5th from bottom...


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
On Fans.Com they are holding a poll to see who supporters believe will win the EPL title next season. At the moment,when last i looked Arsenal were edging it at 16.59.00 with the Chavs on 15.53.00 in second and the DJ's Manure struggling in their now customary third spot on a pathetic 12.50.00. Somehow the organizers of the pole have managed to work Spuds into the equation! They must be bookmakers working on the principle that a Spud supporter and his dosh are easily separated from one another! Albeit now that only 5.00.00 of deluded oafs voted for that club down 'the lane that time forgot'. Still it goes to prove yet again that there's one born every minute!, eh, Bisto???? And hey like Frankie told Danny boy, if you can't beat em,join em! I am off down the pub later to carry on winding a few Spuds up about it,they hate it when i walk in!!!!!!


Rob K
June 17, 2005
Dont follow what is going on w/ RVP. It appears as though he was with two friends and they checked into a hotel yards form his home/wife. Intially they said there was no 'sexual contact' - which is pretty clear cut. Now his lawyer is saying "I cannot comment about whether he had sex or not." He goes on to say about the stipper "She's not the Queen of England." - which is a huge relief ... I have been very worried that the story of about Queen whoring it up in Amsterdam had finally broken.


GaryS
June 17, 2005
Exiled, thanks I’ll give the Mania forum a look. Michael’s comments are not dissimilar so maybe (hopefully) this is it. He’s still an idiot and has his wife to answer to, but fingers crossed, he’ll be out soon.******Spain vs Honduras today in the FIFA Youth Champ – might be one to watch: Spain bt Chile 7-0 and Chile bt Honduras 7-0!! I see Italy lost 2-1 to Syria yesterday.


chocolate gooner
June 17, 2005
Shock, horror. Daz twists the truth once more. Daz, I said and I quote.. “Sophism isn’t philosophy”… that was my exact comment. And I meant sophism in its most modern meaning but I took you on any way because I knew that your Bertrand Russell thingy was pants, as was your Philosophy 101. So here we are; you were wrong… again. The last defence left to you and your shape-shifting pal JohnD (alias Judge JohnD, alias Déjà vu and so on.. a guy so desperate to disguise his actual identity that he even impersonated his son on this forum) is to create a spurious, fictitious and intellectually indefensible split between “sophism” and “Sophism”… you have to laugh. The only subtle shifting going on is on your part, as you desperately try to cover your arse on the quite pathetic definition of the word “zeitgeist” you proffered on this forum. That episode illustrated your full mendacious repertoire of dishonest argumentation. It took JamesLT’s post to get you and your acolytes to accept that you were talking utter rubbish. Now Bernard’s colleague has confirmed what I said all those moons ago and we have another shift. Daz… the fact is this: you are nowhere near as bright as you imagine. It may cut you to the quick to realise this fact but you have to be man enough to deal with it. Obsessing over my posts and picking nits out of the most throw-away of comments doesn’t advance your case one iota. Neither does you listing your innumerable degrees and achievements help you much either, if anything the make you seem even more uniquely stupid. PhD or not saying that religion is the greatest threat facing humanity is … arrant nonsense. And you said it. I hope you’re proud. Cheers. me gone. Obsess away.


Daz
June 17, 2005
Posted before I saw his reply to you below, Judge. Oh dear, chocolate, you certainly is gone. In the nut.


Cannon Balls
June 17, 2005
Having had to cut my short break early by a couple of days i returned last night and found to my surprise that i have been posting on here about RVP and the 'russian mafia' somehow! you have to laugh, and and if that's not enough i believe that Pires should leave! Er.. not really - in fact i reckon he deserves two years more - not one on his contract - and rules are there to be broken.I break them all the time! That over 30 rule is really starting to irratate me it is becoming too infexible in it's imposition, i reckon that TH14 will still be cutting the mustard pace-wise in his mid thirties - and banging in the goals too,will the club offer him a one year deal when he turns 30??? this over 30 rule could prove to be an embarrassment in the near future if not so already. I appreciate tha we don't want to end up with Kanu and Jeffers scenarios again, but come on now let's have a touch of logic introduced here into the Bobby Pires case. He deserves at least that much if not more. I note that Ray Parlour had a fake post done in his handle and that it was removed on at his request,any chance that the 4 rubbish ones done by my imposter can be likewise moderators??? That's one useful way of trimming the board instead of cutting off ones that people want to read! The problem with the board is it's easy access for anyone to abuse - and let's face it there are pathetic morons out there in La La Land and from 'the lane that time forgot' in particular who always will do so. Aah!Bisto - and i agree with Azinoz that the sooner we get back to a registration scheme the better, because what with the imposters - and an idiot posting to himself on here using another handle (wow! and in such glowing terms too!) rather sad though really when you come to think about it, never mind though it may be theruputic treatment advised by his pyschiatrist to alleviate his delusions of grandeur. To me though sadly it looks like the forum is losing it's credibilty for being called the best on the net because of the antics of a few bored and idle minds with nothing better to do with their time than unload their pathetic dross on here. On the RVP situation i reserve my judgement until the facts of the matter become clearer and suggest that those jumping to hasty conclusions - or even dare i say judgements??? - should folllow my example and do like wise. I myself of course prefer to deal in facts not fantasy's. Then unlike some people who post on here i live in the real world. Hey! Look that tables still got four legs!


Daz
June 17, 2005
It's a very familiar tactic, Judge. What chocolate does - especially when having his arse kicked - is to home in on a tiny issue and then concentrate on it obsessively as if it makes his larger point and all his earlier glaring errors valid or at least forgotten. His best example of this was when I explained in a flippant aside (not defined) zeitgeist as being part of the spirit of the time which was obviously intended to explain what is meant when it's said that 'something' - music, philosophy, warrriors or whatever - belongs to or is part of the zeitgeist - perhaps the most common expression. He decided to obscure his earlier embarrassing hysterics about an explanation that was clear to everybody but him by deciding that 'being part of' (which I can happily admit is not actually contained in either of the words zeit or geist) was a problem that invalidated everything else (spirit of the time being the obvious key issue) before his infamous trip to Hegel.Net to cloud the issue even further and engage in the far more dubious act of plagiarism, generously offering us poor fools a lecture but neglecting to point out that it didn't actually come from him. It's an entirely sterile fifth-form way of arguing, it often works by grinding down the opponent who becomes trapped in tiny semantic quibbles. Just as with the sophist issue, we have moved subtley away from his earlier claim that the sophists (and you made no exceptions at the beginning, chocolate in the pre-google era of your argument) weren't philosophers (a stupid claim easily disproved at the beginning by pointing to Protagoras and Gorgias and their inclusion in the most famous History of Western Philosophy) to a claim that EVERYBODY who might have been called a sophist (which is best understood as meaning 'professor') was a philosopher. There's nowhere really to go with such an argument , especially as we know so little about other sophists (they might have been philosophers, they might not) , except into ever-decreasing circles of debates on terminology which is why chocolate has latched on to it so eagerly. But I had resolved not to be a numbskull and discuss this issue further so you might just as well find an example from football - just watch him wriggle on the Kluivert issue. At best, this is very funny, at its worst - as decaf most accurately said - there is something quite sinister about so much dishonesty and petulant spite.


Michael in amsterdam
June 17, 2005
Guys i just heard from one of my sources in the rotterdam area who has a close link to Feyenoord that the lady accusing RvP is a Nigerian(born in nigeria) striptease dancer.According to this source RvP lawyer has a good witness who overhreard this young lady telling some friends she wants to teach RvP a lesson and will tarnish his image by accusing him.Apparently RvP was in the hotel room with this lady but whatever happened in there no one knows. My question is why did he have to get himself in a hotel room alone with another woman at that time of the night knowing very well what it can lead to and HE IS MARRIED!! Arsenal do not need any of this at this time after all the colegate stuff.I hope his lawyer will clear him asap cos pre-season training is not far off.


chocolate gooner
June 17, 2005
JohnD… why don’t you just shut it? Epicurean is what a follower of Epicurus is called. An Epicure is someone who chooses to live in a particular way. In a post about philosophers and philosophy why are you asking Bernard what an Epicure is? What is its relevance? And once again what is the relevance of listing a whole bunch of universally accepted philosophical schools, all entirely within the Socratic tradition, in a post that is ostensibly about pre-socratic philosophy? You ignoramus. And now we have another non-existent and entirely bogus differentiation. First it was strategy and tactics when coaching football, then we had a totally spurious meaning attached to the word “converse” and now we have "Sophism" and "sophism". You idiot. What’s the difference? Where did the difference arise and when? The modern meaning of sophism derives from the practices of the sophists. Actual, real living sophists, it is one thing to argue that their reputation is undeserved but it is an entirely bogus idea to suggest that there is some differentiation between “sophist” and “Sophist”. You can’t show such a differentiation anymore than you prove that Wenger is tactically weak and strategically strong as a coach. But hey! What’s new? Marcus Aurelius tells his readers to beware of Sophists, Justin Matur refused to study under a Sophist, Aristotle wasn’t complimentary about them, Plato slated them and even Isocrates, himself called a sophist, criticised their practices… but you, a befuddled nincompoop, have found a difference. What is it? Lets see it? IT IS ONE THING TO ARGUE THAT THAT SOPHISM’S BAD REP IS UNDESERVEVED BUT IT IS NONSENSE TO SUGGEST A DIFFERENTIATION. SO PLEASE, JUST SHUT UP. And it is a further mark of your stupidity that you imagine that cutting a quote out of context some years after the original comment had been made proves anything other than your own unique brand of dimmness. Thankfully I’m rather busy or I’d end up wasting my life talking to a dishonest, confused and uniquely thin-skinned muppet like you. Me gone for a while... thankfully. Cheers. Cheers all.


socrates
June 17, 2005
Kyle.......I suppose if the RVP situation were to become a longterm issue then Wenger would be forced to move for a replacement forward so perhaps he is just sounding out a few possibilities should the worst come to the worst.


Kyle
June 17, 2005
Tribal football is doing a thread on Wenger's new search for a midfielder/striker...apparently it's quite vague, cos the quotes don't really match, but it looks like we are after Seville's Brazilian Baptista. Reyes is pushing for the deal.


Kyle
June 17, 2005
Def not liverpool


reds
June 17, 2005
a liverpool fans here. which team u all hate most? Liverpool, manure or chelsea? I personally hate Manure, especially the bloody big red nose & the bloody horse face.


moron
June 17, 2005
Is Hleb good enough? honestly, I don't think so.remember Meltz? Hleb is the same quality as Meltz


moron
June 17, 2005
Forsell at Chelskie was not sold yet as failing the medical test at the end.


Pedro
June 17, 2005
Kuranyi joined Schalke last week I think.


Parkerknoll Gooner
June 17, 2005
While AW's in negotiations with Stuttgart over Hleb I wonder if he'll think to put in a cheeky offer for Kuranyi.


Judge JohnD
June 17, 2005
chocolate, is your frustration borne out of having your backside kicked so convincingly by an old pensioner or something more serious? Now, if your situation is something akin to you not taking the medication, then I really would prefer not to be part of this compulsive habit you exhibit and that leads to the self-harm you inflict in public places. Please let me know if you have a condition or if you are just thick as the proverbial. I am 99.0% sure I get that last comment. You are saying that epicure is not a word but Epicure is? Thus: "(**And a hint, they are not called “epicures” an Epicure is someone who is commited to fine living and sensuous pleasure and as such doesn’t necessarily have to be philosopher. " Well, I didn't get it first time around because your stupidity seemed to centre on the plural use - which did not occur in my post - but now seems to relate to the capitalization which, unsurprisingly and true to form, you have got totally wrong. Try Googling English Grammar or Usage and checking out common nouns and proper nouns. When you have a grip on that, read my posting again. Here's a clue to set you on your way; when I said, "I'm sure you can tell what a stoic, cynic, epicure or sceptic are.", I was not referring to philosophers, something else. But, when I said "But would that mean that the Stoics, Cynics, Epicureans and Sceptics were not ancient philosophers?", I was. Let me know when you geddit? If you ever do, Sophism and sophism might even click into place. And to finish: a] astounding as it may seem, none of my pastings and, I have been assured by e-mail, that none of Déjà's have been doctored. I know it is hard to believe but they really are all your own work. So stand up and take the credit - you deserve it. b] Up to your old tricks? I don't know about ostensibly but it's obvious very little had to do with pre-Socratic philosophy c] "pretentious, confused rambling, utter bilge, rank dishonesty, dissembling, unanswered questions" - not up to your usual standard I must say, but consider if a little less quantity and more quality might be more effective. These just make you look like a Silly Billy, rather than the Shyster I know.


AmericanGooner
June 17, 2005
But they have made bids according to the papers. Still, its early days so no need to worry..yet :) ****Our U20s are playing Egypt tomorrow. Keep an eye on our RB, Wynne.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 17, 2005
Gary - I would of thought so but it's difficult to really give too much of an opinion because all the stuff I said is second hand. From what they are saying him being kept in is almost expected until he's proven innocent. They appear to suggest that the media says shes the mother of a spuds manager that got upset when he took the piss out of her. It's not 'Poor Robin' but it doesn't appear to be 'Bad Robin'. I'll post a precis of what they say when anything comes up under a suitably witty sobriquet. Look, I've kept the same name so people have commented but I've never touted mania on here, mainly because it mushroomed and the people I enjoy reading on here wouldn't enjoy it. I've never even mentioned a piece I've written until someone's asked me about it. But in all honesty right now it's a far better news source than newsnow. I think you have to register but if you look in the Arsenal Talk forum there's a couple of van persie threads with lots of up to date stuff that's being encouraged. It's worth following the thread, and if you've got time to look around and tell silly people that they are silly then feel free...


Nico
June 17, 2005
Thanks for the info on Foxsports, guys. American, chelscum haven't bought anyone yet this summer; all they've done is sell Parker and Forsell. Even del Horno (that nailed on deal of weeks ago) isn't moving there yet with his current club today claiming not one bid has yet been received (see skysports.com). It's probably cat and mouse time with them spending as much energy on following what everyone else is up to as pursuing their own targets. Pathetic lot. I don't think much will happen for some time yet on the Arsenal front; ok we may pick up Jack Hobbs as he's cheap for us and Lincoln like the deal, but that's Arsenal for you. Meanwhile the papers and websites will keep blowing any old guess up into an 'exclusive' or a nailed on fact; after all, what else can they do, and at some point they'll get something right and come up with one of those 'we brought it to our readers first' boasts. It's all a load of b****x. People should just relax, stick a nipper on each knee, down a few beers from the crate lying by the settee and worship peacefully at Arsene's shrine whilst watching Greece get stuffed by Brazil (or, better still, a dvd of the Football Factory to remind you of times gone by). Can you do it? As an old man (only a few years younger than Harlow in fact), I ought to be able to, but I can't until I know who those three nailed on big name signings are. Harlow - over to you, mate.


AmericanGooner
June 17, 2005
Could having too much money for transfers be a bad thing? Especially for Chelsea? They collect great footballers and for what purpose? So they can sit on a cold substitutes bench in Bolton on Boxing Day and their families complaining that they miss them for the holidays? Last year it was obvious that Chelsea stuck with a core XI (or 12 if you include Joe Cole) and got the most successs out of them as all the players knew each others movements and knew their roles. When they deviated from that and mixed and matched they suffered. Even though the players that came in were seasoned internationals. Arsenal plays basically the same XI players who know each other's movements intimately and its one of our strengths. Chelsea are new boys with money in their pockets are buying like there is no tomorrow. They run the risk of destroying their team chemistry. Instead of tweaking a successful team with one or two players, they seem hell bent on buying expensive players that may do more harm than good and cause some dissention amongst the ranks if they aren't given playing time. Plus players that are foreign and need time to settle. I could be wrong. Mourinho could be a master tactician and integrator of new players as far as I know. Maybe its wishful thinking on my part. Or maybe he's buying too much at a time when he shouldn't be.


its only ray parlour
June 17, 2005
Nico: That link is wrong. He hasn't been charged. I very much doubt FoxSport News would have the drop on the Dutch media.


GaryS
June 17, 2005
On RP7, ideally he could do more defensively but I believe he more than makes up in goals/creativity. With DB10's influence reducing and JAR unproven (yet - I do believe we should keep him and think he should make it), I just don't think we sell one of our strongest and experienced creative forces now - especially when a lot of changes in other areas of the team seem to be happening now/soon (CB, "2nd" striker, wide right, RB?, LB?). If it takes an xtra 2yrs to keep him, we should just get it done - and move on to the more difficult decisions.


AmericanGooner
June 17, 2005
Rvp should be released and found guilty of turning down a 3 some. What heterosexual man would turn that down? **** Brazil 70, in the end we had no choice concerning Edu. We wanted to keep him but he was set on leaving by the end. We couldn't give him first team minutes which he felt he needed to keep his place on the Brazilian team. Wages was an issue but to a lesser extent than playing time. **** Nico, that site is an American one that just takes stuff off the wire. They got it wrong probably and just misread what Reuters or some other news source has said.


GaryS
June 17, 2005
Exiled - without getting too medical, if this account is right(ish) I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to prove that there was no sexual contact (or at least the other side couldn't prove that there was).


Nico
June 17, 2005
http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3694206....this link claims Van Persie has been formally charged with rape


Brazil 70
June 17, 2005
If Hleb is seen as a replacement for Edu why did Arsenal let Edu go so easily?If Hleb costs say £7m plus £2m a year in wages the economics of not paying Edu an extra 10k or 20K a week to keep him do not look so clever. Obviously Arsenal did not rate him that highly.-I am quite comfortable with Pires being sold as I feel he is good but inconsistent offensively & often does not pull his weight defensively.He is clearly not going to get any better so Wenger has my support for taking a hard nosed approach.


GaryS
June 17, 2005
TOP GUN. Yeah, saw the Adriano goal - great strike. They had Ronaldinho, Kaka, Robinho & Adriano all in the team - a pretty mouthwatering prospect for next summer.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 17, 2005
American - If Fabregas gets into his early 30's and finds himself out of contract and leaves...man will we have been lucky to have had the greatest midfielder in the world playing for us for over a dozen years.


XXX
June 17, 2005
April Fools


Exiled In Newcastle
June 17, 2005
Jay - the extention is fot UP TO 14days so he could be out tomorrow. We've got some people from Holland keeping the news flowing on mania and basically what they say is... XXXXX It is not uncommon with a serious charge for them to keep the guy in custody until cleared, rather than the English system of it being very hard for police to exceed time limits without hard evidence. Someone mentioned possible cause rather than probable cause. The woman appears to have been a lap dancer who was previously a prostitute in Germany. It appears she may have followed him round the club and he took her back to the hotel (which he didn't stay in) to give him a lapdance she promised him. It then appears he may have hidden her clothes and found it very amusing (he doesn't seem to have had anything noticable to drink) but she didn't. She then left and met up with 2 mates (she may have suggested a threesome to him before she left and if she did he may well have declined) and told them that he was an arse (knows her footie then) and told them about the clothes being hidden, but didn't mention rape, or any kind of sexual contact. Later she complained to the police. Also van Persie's lawyer appears to be a well known celebrity lawyer over there. There's a son and father and I've forgotten which one it is. Both appear to be slimeballs who only ever defend people who are found innocent. XXXXX From what the posters have said that seems to be what dutch media is saying. Obviously me posting it here makes it (at least) second hand, but I think that's a fair go at what they've said.


Jimbo
June 17, 2005
Jay, not totally sure, but i think RVP can be released at any time during the next 2 weeks if not sufficient evidence is found.


The Death of XXX
June 17, 2005
It's all gone pear shaped! Torres turned down the move after Chelsea offered him twice what we would pay and he'll join them next week (on £90 000 a week). Hleb is on the brink of collapse as well. Liverpool have now entered that race. On the plus side we will get Jack Hobbs from Lincoln City on Tuesday.


AmericanGooner
June 17, 2005
It seems like a race against time concerning Pires. If we sign Helb and/or another midfielder early, we will be more determined not to give in to two years. I have a feeling he'll be gone. Lyon would be happy to give him a contract as well as more than a few of our domestic rivals. Bolton would certainly like to have him but I don't think they'd be able to meet his wage demands. Newcastle would try and probably the scum just to [insert swear word here] us off. 20/20 hindsight vision, would any of you have given Sol the contract he got last season? I do like the policy but there will be a situation that comes up eventually that will make us think long and hard about violating it for one person. We may not always be able to sign good players well into their 30s. We may end up with a 30 y.o. Fabregas for example, despite our best efforts to get him into a longer term contract before hand, who is out of contract in a year and we'd have to think long and hard about our policy then.


Jay
June 17, 2005
Can RVP be released before the two weeks is up? What if he stays there for two weeks then they release him without charge? Imagine being held for two weeks if you've done nothing at all. Anyone know where the details of this case are being published? All I've heard so far is that he's in Police custody. Where did it all occur? What is the feeling in Holland? Blatant Set up or possibly true?


socrates
June 17, 2005
Re: Julio Baptista......without wishing to be accused of rumour-mongering, there is a story in the spanish paper AS today that Wenger is interested in Sevilla's brazilian striker Julio Baptista. Baptista is big, strong and scores goals but would probably be pretty expensive so who knows if the interest is genuine. Dublin Gooner was talking about Baptista last night so he will be pleased if there is any truth in the rumour.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 17, 2005
Pires. Wonderful player. Had a much better season than some will admit. But, he's 31(?) One year left on his contract and he wants another two which makes him 34 at the end of the two years. With all due respect to Bobby we seem to have dozens of people either ready (or nearly ready) to take his position. I don't think there's anything wrong with offering him (one of my favourite players to be honest) only one extra year because how many of you expect him to be a first team regular (which his wages are) then. Those people saying it's disrespectful tell me how disrespectful is it to Den, after twice giving him one year contracts, to give Bobby two. As for 'what about titi' I think, like Bobby, when he's 27/28 he'll be encouraged to sign for four or five years.


Bluey
June 17, 2005
I don't think RvP will be released on bail pending further inquiries. It seems that either he will be charged or released and if he is released then that will be the end of the matter presumably.


TOP GUN
June 17, 2005
jeez anyone see the goal adriano just scored pure quality. XXX is a lying mug. Robbbie P give the man a 5 year contract hes quality and how are we supposed to replace him if he goes. apparently weve got loads of contract extensions being discussed at the moment gilberto,freddy8,rp7,th14, ac3? i wonder if this is hampering our transfer dealings?? One signing we should make is lucy pinder! i'd like to wrap a belt round her and ride her like seabiscuit!


AmericanGooner
June 17, 2005
The over 30 rule needs to be amended. I'm not saying it has to be done for Bob, but there are one offs in talent that may warrant a 2nd look. Henry is the best example I can think of. His current deal carries him into his 30s I would think but if it hadn't would we be giving a 30 or 31 y.o. Henry a 1 year contract? Same with a Fabregas or Senderos. Can you imagine how good they are gonna be at 30? We need to revisit the over 30 policy. It works most of the time but there are exceptions. Personally, I see Bob as more of a sub if we get this Hleb guy. I am not sure if I want to see a 32, soon to be 33 y.o. player getting 60k a week on the bench long term. I love Bob and he is vital in the build up to the goals we mostly get on the left side. However, we need to get a replacement soon. With him and Bergkamp going in the not to distant future, we lose a lot of creativity and experience. Arsene seems to building a 3rd team for AG. **** Regarding Hleb, we've always come in with a low first offer. We did for Reyes and got told we couldn't buy his boots for that bid. Stuttgart did say, the only choices are Stuttgart or Arsenal which would indicate that they and the player consider us the only serious buyers. **** They just announced here that the Chavs and Milan will be touring here in July. Called the World Series of Football and they'll be playing each other as well as a couple clubs in the domestic league in different cities (Chicago, NY amongst them). For some reason touring here tires out players, as Man Yoo. Knowing promoters here they will insist on certain players making appearances and playing at least 45 minutes.


chocolate gooner
June 17, 2005
John D here’s your quote. …“I'm sure you can tell what a stoic, cynic, EPICURE or sceptic are.” Your own quote … now put a sock in it. Cheers. And why are you listing all those philosophical schools when you are ostensibly talking about pre-socratic philosophy? You say I missed you? Of course I missed you; what’s not to miss? The pretentious guff? The confused rambling? The unanswered questions? The dissembling? The utter bilge that passes for opinions? the shameless doctoring of copied posts? The rank dishonesty?? Of course I missed you. Where’s my hanky? I’ve got tears in my eyes. BTW that little matter of tactics and strategy… I’m still waaaaaiting. Cheers. Goodnight. Really.


ANONYMOUS (btopenworld.com user in Bletchley Uk)
June 17, 2005
XXX - Socrates is NOW crying...you complete bullshitter


Judge JohnD
June 17, 2005
Grumpy Old chocolate, you need to take something for that excessive adrenaline - you have clearly missed us. However, your rush to admonish and correct leaves you looking even more of a plank than usual. You will, if you try again, find it very difficult to find 'epicures' in my posting; you are confusing an epicure with an Epicurean - which I got right and in fact did not grope for the term Epicurean at all - it is there for all to see - this is seriously poor debate. For the record and your education: epicure is the noun and I daresay epicures is the plural - as in Mrs Judge and my goodself - epicurean is the adjective and Epicurean relates to the philosophy of Epicurus. Any hope that you might get this one-day fades when we witness your inability to understand what is tactical and what is strategic. Further there is no reference in my posting to this group as being pre-Socratic - just as ancient philosophers - are you groping here? Are you not well - this is a pale shadow of your usual fifth form level input? And finally, please remember who it was that introduced you to the pre-Socratics before you lecture us on whether anything before Socrates was really philosophy. Hope you have voted foe Socrates because there is a whole shedload of us who have got on the founding Sophist at BBC4. What will you have to say if a Sophist is declared the Greatest Philosopher? But then, you still think that Kluivert was a good call.


Jimbo
June 17, 2005
Rob K, i didn't realise i was being too abusive for the forum. I assume it was for my opening line, not for calling XXX a doughnut. Well i appologise, i was just getting carried away with what seems to be all doom and gloom regarding arsenal stories recently.


Daz
June 17, 2005
But how can we be sure those are all your own words, chocolate plagiarist? I'm also confused as to what you're seeking for here. Do you want to discuss sophism or not? Because at the bottom of your first derranged rant, you said that those who did so were numbskulls. Yet you have now gone on about the topic in consecutive posts, making less and less sense as you do so. Are you including yourself as one of the obsessive numbskulls which would be true but unusually self-deprecating?


Daz
June 17, 2005
Why go on about sophism indeed, chocolate? Erm, unless I'm very mistaken the only person who has really jumped into that topic is YOU. I'm staying off it so it's no good berating me for both not repsonding to Bernard's obvious attempt to get it all started again and then for talking about it at the expense of football-related matters. You seem very stressed today. Still, that's nuance!


chocolate gooner
June 17, 2005
JohnD …why don’t you just give it a rest you dissembling guff-meister. For a start the stoics weren’t pre-socratic philosophers neither were the cynics, the epicureans nor the sceptics. (**And a hint, they are not called “epicures” an Epicure is someone who is commited to fine living and sensuous pleasure and as such doesn’t necessarily have to be philosopher. An Epicurean, which is the word you were groping for, is a follower of Epicurus and his teachings **). So why don’t you try googling what pre-socratic philosophy actually is and stop making a monkey of yourself or better still buy some books for that empty shelf of yours. Pre-socratic philosophy included groups like the Pythagorans as I mentioned earlier, the Milesans and even the Atomists. Protagoras and others may have been sophists as well as philosophers but to be a sophist was to be a teacher of Rhetoric not a philosopher. Just like Bernard’s colleague said. Just like I told you all those moons ago. Just like every body with even a vague interest in this subject knows; everyone that is, apart from you. You haven’t a clue. Cheers and good night


babu
June 17, 2005
The thanks was for not removing my post , YET !! Just a thought on the RvP case, IF he`s released on bail then will he be able to leave the country until the whole case is solved, or will he have to stay in Holland ??


Judge JohnD
June 17, 2005
Bernard: for when you get back; say you are one of this movement in your calling that has been labelled a Plankist because of your particular views, behaviour and beliefs. Are you telling me that because someone who, say, sails a boat is similarly thought of as a plank, you and your fellow Plankists can not be considered as practitioners, as a branch of Hospital Administration? I can understand that there might be disagreements, that some planks might consider you are quacks and charlatans, say, but you will not hold such a view, would you?…. Fish Bar: that's exactly the hole choco has been digging. When he realised his cock-up, after going no further than his Thesaurus, he ploughed Google for any old reference that could ease his embarrassment. In truth you are confusing Sophism with sophism. I'm sure you can tell what a stoic, cynic, epicure or sceptic are. But would that mean that the Stoics, Cynics, Epicureans and Sceptics were not ancient philosophers? chocolate logic would suggest that they were just a bunch of impassive, mistrustful and sarcastic old geezers who liked nothing more than their grilled monkfish and a glass of Muscadet. Does chocolate's quackings mean that you could not vote for any pre-Socratics on the BBC4 'Greatest Philosopher Vote', or even the founding Sophist? I think not…….chocolate: you're turning into a Grumpy Old Man, bad crossing? I'll tell you what's wrong with your Kluivert suggestion - a] the performances at Newcastle b] maybe AW would have worked the same magic with PK that he worked on FJ.


babu
June 17, 2005
Thanks !


Arsenal Fish Bar
June 17, 2005
Don't worry, the signings will come. The bigger ones at the bigger clubs tend to come later on in the summer (Chavs poss slight exception to this as money haggling concept is not a problem for them also they started tapping up potential signings and their agents during last season........ Agree with Gunfire... Cannon (the conspiracist) please don't go down that road otherwise you won't last the summer, let alone next season when you will see every missed attempt at goal by our players or those from the other contenders being down to that player finding a russian horses head on their pillow the morning of the game ........ ;)


Rob K
Forum Admin
June 17, 2005
Abuse - beware as you are in danger of having your ip address banned from the forum: Arse'nal Jamie & Jimbo

Honh Kong Gooner
June 17, 2005
A policy of one year contract extensions for the over thirties seems barmy to me.It's not as though we employ hundreds of players approaching that age so that a fair and consistent policy is a necessity (can't you tell I work for the Government).For the odd player that it applies to, how difficult is it to look at each one on his own merits.We are outside the system so don't really know what goes on, but the disrespect that seems to have been shown to Bob and Dennis appears to be pretty shoddy and certainly not the Arsenal way that we all like to think of as the essence of the club.


ANONYMOUS (btopenworld.com user in Bletchley Uk)
June 17, 2005
So XXX we still wait for Torres and Hleb - where are you now ??


Bluey
June 17, 2005
It was not a real surprise that the Prosecutor remanded RvP in Custody for another 14 days. Apparently the only grounds they need to show are a "very high suspicion" and that it is a serious offence. Presumably it is similar to the UK that in order to convict they have to show "beyond reasonable doubt". Therefore they do not have enough evidence to charge. I think it is unlikely that he will be in prison for 14 days but either he will be charged within a week or released after the enquiries are complete.


Arsenal Fish Bar
June 17, 2005
Err not very good on this but I thought Sophism was an argument which appears to be true but is really false, and use to deceive, whereas philosophy is more the investigation of either the nature, causes/principals of reality (values/knowledge based on logical reason) Could be wrong, cod n chips my speciality subject


Gunfire
June 17, 2005
Oh dear! oh dear! oh dear! Cannon bawls has surpassed himself "I wouldnt be suprised if the russian mafia had something to do with fitting up RVP.They are playing dirty tricks against us and will go to any lengths to cause unrest at our club.This whole episode stinks has got russian mafia written all over it" NNNUUUURSSSSEEEE! NNNUURRSSSEE!

Edit - Cannon Balls did not post that - His name was spoofed and the offenders IP logged




Bernard
June 17, 2005
Fortunately I'll not be around any more today so won't see the debate that's no doubt about to start. But just to make a point Chocolate, that sophism isn't philosophy wasn't my own point (not that I disagree it isn't - I simply don't know enough of the subject - or is it two subjects if sophism isn't philosophy)? I simply repeated what a philosophy lecturer told me when I asked him whether sophism was philosophy (and I only did so because of the past debate here) at some interdisciplinary do.

Pedro
June 16, 2005
Danger, I wasnt really referring to the contract offer, more to his general play in the last season, I am not confident that we can rely on him with no real alternative in the squad, mainly because Wenger wants to make everyone into forwards.


chocolate gooner
June 16, 2005
WARNING: THIS IS AN EXTREMELY BORING POST. READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL. … … … Daz: I’ll give you credit for getting one thing right and that is the FACT that you now recognise that you’re an extremely kooky obsessive. You’re a LOON. 1) If my posts are such rubbish why do you waste so much energy and time prattling on about them? Even in my absence. Why don’t you just do what I do with your posts? Why don’t you just concisely and objectively point out what is erroneous about the post or posts and leave it at that? Why bang on interminably about stuff that bores the forum stiff? 2) If you were even remotely interested in any kind of real debate you’d, at the very least, stick to things I actually said and not stuff you made up. Here’s what’s incontrovertible rubbish Daz and they are all your ideas. To say that religion is the greatest threat facing humanity is utter nonsense. It’s not even as if you said that religious fundamentalism was a danger, which would have been understandable… hell no! Religion is the greatest threat facing humanity! And you have a PhD? Here’s another piece of incontestable rubbish from you…. “Pakistan is the most dangerous country on earth.” How? Why? Oh, I forgot, Arundathi Roy said so… so it must be true. And you claim that you taught Development Studies?? How about that pathetic definition of the word “Zeitgeist”?… and remember someone asked you for a DEFINITION, and yet you got it so WRONG that even a thesaurus couldn’t back up your definition. Now these things aren’t a question of interpretation or opinion, they are just plain WRONG. Factually wrong. Intellectually indefensible. Shallow, puerile and without any discernible value as ideas and that will remain the case whether your wife has her salary delivered in a HGV every month, whether you have 88 PhD’s from 88 different universities, whether your Kitchen is by Baulthap or Poggenpohl, or even if you’re the richest individual ever to post on the internet... because all these things, as good for you and yours as they may be, have sod all to do with anything at issue. And your ideas will still be stupid even if every man jack on this forum agreed with you- so attacking Bernard is a blooming waste of time. You really ought to have realised by now that no amount of Alice-in-wonderland type reasoning can get you out of the hole in which you find yourself. How about your nonsense about Sophism? Now we have Bernard repeating exactly what I said at the time. EXACTLY. Why don’t you give him an answer? Why would a philosophy lecturer tell Bernard what he did if as you claimed (very, very loudly) that sophism is philosophy. As usual JohnD blunders in, spraying irrelevancies all over the place. No one has ever disputed that Gorgias or Protagoras could be called philosophers (although it is arguable whether Gorgias was even a sophist given that some records say that he insisted that he wasn’t a sophist) or even whether there was a philosophy of sorts before Socrates (the Orphee-Pythagorans for one were recognisable philosophers albeit with a lot of superstition mixed in) the only issue was whether Sophism and sophistry could be called philosophy or philosophical. They can’t. That’s it. I could go on but life’s too short. So let me repeat what I’ve always told you; Daz.… your posts are silly… very silly. Have a nice day. … … … … … … … … … … JohnD, I don’t know about you but I find it really sad when my elders (especially pensioners) resort to Mourinho type lies. Jeffers and Kluivert are totally separate issues as far as what I have said on this forum goes. I said that Jeffers wasn’t good enough at a time when the vast majority of this forum were making excuses for him. I never suggested that Kluivert replace him. Never. Kluivert was someone I suggested we sign when everyone was under the impression we had NO MONEY because of the stadium and Barcelona were trying to off load him on the cheap. He was a suggestion I made when others were suggesting Radzinski for example and given that I’ve always pointed out that Kluivert doesn’t score that many goals for his clubs, I was hardly unaware of his limitations either as an individual or as a footballer. But the guy has some class and who knows what Wenger would have been able to do with him, so as a clutch signing I still see absolutely nothing wrong with the suggestion. In any event the issue is irrelevant because we then got Reyes for a not insubstantial amount of moolah. And despite what some others might say I, for my part, am pretty satisfied with him and his contribution given the turmoil that he must have endured in his first full season. BTW what’s the difference between tactics and strategy as far as coaching a football team goes? It’s been 3 years and still no answer. I’m a patient man but … cheers. … …. … so there you have it folks, Van Persie is in prison, Pires, our second top scorer, might be about to turn his back on us, Ashley Cole seems to have lost his marbles and yet two obsessive numbskulls want to discuss sophism. It all makes sense. Cheers all.


Rob K
June 16, 2005
Agree the age policy is a good discipline but 30 is too young a cut off in this day and age for professional athletes (as opposed to the cane it hard types of the Adams mould)


Danger
June 16, 2005
Pedro, I dont get too angry but your lack of respect to Pires is disgraceful. He has been one of out best players over the last 4 or so years, never causes trouble, could have gotten more $ elsewhere, is the most productive goal scoring and assist making midfielder anywhere, possibly in the world. END OF> If he doesnt deserve 2 years,tell me another player who does.


NAIROBI GOONER
June 16, 2005
Van persie to stay in jail for a further 14 days on the request of the dutch prosecuter,seems like there is something against him,time for wenger to get a replacement.


JamesLT
June 16, 2005
RALPH: Do you mean to say you take the press reports seriously about who we will buy or where they will play? How many of these writers have seen Hleb play? How many of these same writers described people like Petit and Vieira as unknowns when they arrived? Vieira was young, but he was hardly unknown. These people have no idea what they're writing about half the time, but still have to fill the same number of columns and pages day-in, day-out. It's pure hackwork... Sports journalism (if that isn't an oxymoron) is the toy department of any general newspaper or magazine...


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 16, 2005
Re: HLEB negotiations. The Stuttgart management have made it clear that HLEB will be leaving if they get the right price. The inference (by whom?) that Chelski are ‘interested’ is almost certainly an attempt to increase the price. Presume that by offering only £5m, we therefore confirm our final offer will be somewhat lower than £10m. We keep getting suggestions that HLEB will give us cover on the right side of midfield, when looking at reports it very much seems that he is a straight replacement of EDU who operates central/left midfield. If true then Chelski could only want him to cover superstar Joe COLE or TIAGO or SMERTIN or LAMPARD or GEREMI or….?


harlow steve
June 16, 2005
Maybe I’m getting on a bit, and things don’t bother me that much nowadays, however, I’m fully behind anything that Wenger does, the man can do no wrong by me… I’ve said this before and make no excuses for repeating myself… In days gone by, following Arsenal, my and me mates used to go over the Arsenal or away and always worry about what the team would be, what players would be missing… No Brady, big downer, No O’Leary, No Stapleton, you get the jist, Radford, Kennedy, Etc!!! Well in the Wenger days, I don’t bother, 60% of the time his teams win, no matter what side he puts out, and around 80% of the time, his teams don’t lose… No Pires, No Reyes, No RVP, no HENRY, I’m sure Wenger will pull the proverbial out of the hat and we will still challenge… American lawyer to baby-sit this afternoon, looks like shaken baby syndrome at the Court this PM as the jury has been discharged for failing to reach a verdict in the Gary (the crisp) case… Like you’ll go against one of English Football heroes (not mine) in favour of a down under plank, who goes out with a member of the cast of EMMERDALE, EMMERDALE… I wonder how many of this forum were shaken wildly, when children, by some of the thoughts on here, plenty!!!


Pedro
June 16, 2005
dublingunner, the Bergkamp saga is not quite the same really as he was not just over 30, but 35. I think it is a sound policy but maybe they should make it over 32 instead of 30.


dublin gooner
June 16, 2005
well, what happens when th14 reaches 30, i dont really like the thought of offering him precarious rolling contracts. surely he would be rewarded for his loyalty to us with more respect, as bergkamp should have been, that was a bit of a mess. what is going on with the board these days, seems like they try to do everything the hard way.


Darren
June 16, 2005
Cannon Balls - That sounds like something straight out of one of Daz's Spooks episodes!


Bernard
June 16, 2005
Judge, like Matthew I'm busy at the moment but I'll try to quickly answer. No I'm not saying there's no truth in Sophism. I don't actually know whether there is or isn't as until the debate here I'd taken no real interest in the subject, and still have very little (the ratio of patients per trolley in A&E departments is more my line). But I think I follow what you're saying about hospital administrators and Plankism. But I thought that was exactly the point the philosophy lecturer made with regards sophists and philosophy. Namely, some sophists may have been philosophers, but that doesn't make sophism philosophy.

False poster masquerading as Cannon Balls - IP logged
June 16, 2005
I wouldnt be suprised if the russian mafia had something to do with fitting up RVP.They are playing dirty tricks against us and will go to any lengths to cause unrest at our club.This whole episode stinks has got russian mafia written all over it.


Matthew Wade
June 16, 2005
Long time no post----- 1) sinscerely hoping our new terrace hero will be exonerated...it would be disasterous for the club, himself and of course the girl in question if he is guilty. Still smells like a fit up under the circumstances, but no point jumping to conclusions one way or another...hope his wife isn't suffering too much.............................. 2) If we only bid £5m for Hleb, I'm not surprised they rejected it....however they seem to be willing to consider a higher offer. Bad show witht them squealing - trying to start a bidding war? 3) Darren - you could see an NHS smoking cesation advisor....they worked for my friend, and they give you free patches etc to help you quit ..... 4) Keeley Hawes is indeed very tasty! Me and my dad don't often agree on these things... 5) Nice to see Daz keeping up the literary ambitions of the Forum... Between us all, quite a switched on bunch, despite the mind numbeing tedium of some of our arguments on here. Still the best Forum.....and thankfuly the new additins have for the most part been a genuinely positive addition. 6) not stressing too much about no signings yet. We seldom buy anyone in June. 7) Nice to see the stories about Ash moving have mystereiously calmed down. ------------------------boring post I know, but SOOO busy....


Arsenal Fish Bar
June 16, 2005
Is it me, and sorry to return to the RVP saga, but is the clubs silence somewhat deafening? He hasn't been charged, he has been accused of something, so why don't the club put out a statement saying that as their player etc until proven guilty of any offence they stand by him? Re Hleb - I think the reason that Stuttgart have gone public in turning down our offer is that hope it will encourage Chavski and others sniffing around ( we are notorious for our lack of spending) - but as I have posted earlier, I think that is wishful thinking, as I don't see him fitting into their system. He may well fit into Manure's system though, especially if Ronaldo doesn't sign new contract..


Judge JohnD
June 16, 2005
Bernard: are you being agumentative and telling me that there is no truth in Sophism? Are all hospital administrators so sophisticated? Let's try this, important you retain a sense of humour: some hospital administrators earn themselves a certain reputation and get labelled as Plankists because they practise Plankism. Now, not all hospital administrators are planks and you don't have to be a hospital administrator to be a plank - take yourself for example or chocolate, although that has to be an assumption - how simple is that? Not complicated, is it? Kluivert?


False poster masquerading as Cannon Balls - IP logged
June 16, 2005
I personally dont have a problem if Robert Pires leaves.He has not been producing of late and may never reproduce the form he was once capable of.If we get Hleb and it a big if with the russian mafia sniffing around then Fredrik Ljungberg is more than capable of filling his boots.


Charlie
June 16, 2005
Good to see Wenger is looking for a new right midfielder, I have just seen Hleb once, against man u a coupple of years ago, and he looked good then.


Alan
June 16, 2005
There is only one real team in England Ralph you know that :-) Who else they gunner write about!


GoonerForever
June 16, 2005
We certainly cannot afford to lose both Cole and Pires this summer. That left side has been key to our success over the post few seasons and we would certainly have a job trying to rebuild it. Robins got another 14 days in custody just to make matters worse.


Darren
June 16, 2005
Daz- Thanks for the smoking advice. I'm at the point where I hate it but can't quite find the resolve. It's almost there though. I bought the patches and everything a few days back but tomorrow always seems a better bet than today. That Keeley girl from Spooks I always thought was a real babe. Never knew you wrote Spooks Daz. Loved the series. Talking of babes check out the girl I'm writing with www.ellieonline.com.


Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
June 16, 2005
Stuttgart reject Arsenal's first offer for HLEB of £5m!! Are the next headlines going to be Arsenal Offer £6m? How come all of a sudden our negotiations are making online news reports... is there a hidden camera or what?


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
Apprent inconsistencies between Robin's story and that of other witnesses.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
It appears that the judge in Holland has granted an extention of up to 14 day to the police. Apparently waiting for dna results and wanting to interview more witnesses.


Alan
June 16, 2005
In the early days as many on the forum will remember, I was appointed hate campaign manager for Robbie P - Man how I have eaten my words - the guys the bomb. He is right up there with the best we have or have had - give the lad the 2 years - If we can keep old man Dennis we can give RP his desired 2 years


Daz
June 16, 2005
Who wrote which Spooks episode is a matter of complete confidentiality of course, Judge, which is why there are no credits. But it's true that Zoe aka the lovely Keeley Hawes was despatched to Chile in Episode 6 of the last series.


Gunfire
June 16, 2005
Pedro : Pires might have scored tap ins but this in itself requires positioning sense and is not a matter of luck. Bob makes his goals look easy but that is because of the player he is. Other players given the same chances wouldn't score as many goals. Some players have the knack of being in the right place at the right time but it is a skill.


socrates
June 16, 2005
Mee....completely agree. In principal the use of short term contracts for over 30's is a sound policy, however there must be exceptions to the rule such that players of extreme talent, influence, fitness, loyalty etc can be appropriately rewarded. Clearly Pires is still a massive talent by premiership standards, his goals tally last season proved that. He also appears to be a model professional who rarely gives management a moments trouble. In short he deserves better.


Mee
June 16, 2005
Stand by for another Bergkamp type saga over RP7. Are the board insisting that AW limit his contracts to one year for the over 30‘s? It must be the case, because surely Pires is worth a 2 year extension? If during that period he gets much less playing time because of the development of young players, then adjust the fine detail of the contract accordingly. Arsenal’s ‘one size fits all’ policy is insulting to loyal guys like Pires and Bergkamp. Loyalty and support should be reciprocated.


Nick
June 16, 2005
I'm loving the Brum fans who told Bowyer to **** off! Superb stuff. At last some real fan power working. Let's hope Bowyer gets the message loud and clear. It would be really funny if all the fans of clubs he was trying to go to did the same thing. It's great to see Fans standing up and showing players and clubs they still have a voice. The Brum chairman might be angry now but it the long run he'll realise the fans have done him a big favour. Maybe more action like this might finally make a few players wake up and realise they cant keep treating people with contempt. On that note is was amusing to hear about Pennant and his incident while on holiday. Nice to see he's learnt his lessons from the last few months and really grown up then? The more I hear about him since he left Arsenal, the more amazed I am that he was with us for so long. Some of the stories him are quite bizzare.


Pedro
June 16, 2005
The problem I feel we have with Pires now is that he is too inconsistent to rely on as our only option on the left. As we saw this season (apart from the last 5 or 6 games) he was anonymous in many games, yes his scoring record is more than impressive but how many were taps which resulted from a rebound or Henry handing them on a plate?. He will be 32 later this year and to me he is never going to get near the player he was in 2001/2, it would be a lesser problem if Wenger didn't insist in trying to make Reyes a forward, I feel he would be better used on the left wing. I just dont feel Reyes has the right attributes to play up front, time will tell whether I am right on this one..


Truegooner
June 16, 2005
I know the clubs policy about not giving players over 30 more than a years extention at a time.I do think this smacks of chiselling of the worst kind in this instant.I mean,fair enough if you dont want to be stuck with a useless donkey who is always breaking down,but Superbob? I dont think so.


Truegooner
June 16, 2005
I dont see why the club are fannying around again with Pires' contract.Why are we going to let our second best goal scorer leg it for the sake of a two year extention?


Bernard
June 16, 2005
Judge, just quickly, as I've no real interest in the debate outside of finding the discussion between Daz and Chocolate somewhat engaging in the 'who will keep it going longer' context, I won't be bothered myself to look up the link. All the philosophy lecturer said was that there are no reasons to think some sophists weren't philosophers, but that does not mean sophism is a philosophy (or words to that effect). Think I put it in terms of some hospital administrators might be philosophers, but does that make hospital administration philosphy? I wouldn't have thought so. Does your link contradict his reasoning on that basis, is what I guess he'd think? Anyway, I'm afraid (much to everyone else's pleasure) that I'll be a very infrequent poster over the next day or so simply through a lack of time so won't be able to get involved or respond to discussions much.


Judge JohnD
June 16, 2005
Bernard: your Philosophy Lecturer and chocolate can both check out the BBC site; go here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/greatest_philosopher_list_all.shtml - and support Gorgias (c.485-380 BC) - founding Sophist; believed there is no truth, only argument; mastered the art of rhetoric - on The In Our Time's 'Greatest Philosopher Vote'. If you find Gorgias too simple yet not complicated enough, there is also a host of pre-Socratic philosophers - uncannily reminiscent of those mentioned to the plagiariser in his denial period - when he started at the wrong timeline on his Google sweep…… By the way, hasn't Ellen MacArthur just come back on terra firma after her record attempt across the Channel? And chocolate reappears - I think my theory might have legs………Daz: you made a cryptic reference once before, subsequently I have watched all the Spooks repeats and Angels on UKTV Gold, +1… but have yet to catch it. Is that you who killed off Tom and all his mates? I noticed one of them was exiled to Chile.


Vince Ordinaire
June 16, 2005
Re: Kluivert running over a theatre director - doesn't that make him a critic, and therefore a cultural sophisticate, or perhaps sophist, implicitly. Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I look forward to revisiting the debate in a few days time. Free the Rotterdam One.


GaryS
June 16, 2005
http://www.thisislondon.com/sport/football/articles/19330678?source=Evening%20Standard Potentially worrying news (in my view) re RP7. I would not want to see him go now and I think he’s worth a 2-yr extension.


Mee
June 16, 2005
Daz:: No cigar - but the Kofi Annan of the forum. I can live with that.


Daz
June 16, 2005
No I don't but she has a point!


G
June 16, 2005
Exiled, thanks for the link re the U20s - it even works on my PC. I'll give it a watch when I have less work to do. Rotterdam, lets hope we get good news today


goonerguru
June 16, 2005
Daz,I hope you dont write anything for Coronation St,when I ask Mrs Goonerguru"why are you watching that crap again"she replies "cos dems da rules,now EEG off and play with your EEGing Arsenal friends on your computer".


Daz
June 16, 2005
Nice try, Mee, but no cigar. I think most of us understand "looks simple but is in fact complicated" but thanks for explaining it so painstakingly. I struggle with the idea that something actually IS simple but at the same time full of tiny nuances (visible to the cognoscenti) which complicate it. In such a case I think we'd say that while it might look simple it isn't. Perhaps you can also explain the linguistic problems I overlooked with Cygan being sixth in the top five best CBs, Brazil being a third world region much like any other and the logical oversight I'm committing in finding absurd: a) If you raise your hands you have to go. Dem's de rules. b) Cole raised his hands. c) Cole did not have to go. I see you as the kind of Kofi Anaan of the forum so maybe we can clear up this silly mess once and for all! But as far as "cultural sophistication" goes - its meaning in chocolate's lexicon is quite clear: not English.


GARY
June 16, 2005
Apparently Arse initial bid of 5 big ones for Hleb has been turned down


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
LTG - basically by racking up 20-30,000 miles in my car each season!


Mee
June 16, 2005
‘Simple things you see are all complicated, I look pretty young but I‘m just backdated yeah’ The Who. If you agree that language is one form of communication, and the people using it will be adapt and corrupt it to suit their own needs and the conventions of the society they are using it in, it follows that ‘simple yet complicated’ is a perfectly comprehensible thing to say because the phrase is understood to have multiple meaning. What we really mean is that although something may look simple it does so only because of the complex structure of something supporting it. The London Underground map looks deceptively simple but few would deny that it does so because an extremely complex idea has been simplified to suit the end user. A bird can make flight look simple yet man has required 100 years and the service of many great minds to come up with a crude alternative. Flight is both simple and complicated. The trouble with words on a page is that they don’t answer back and so the communication is never reciprocated, which may lead to an excessively didactic study of words on a page. I think that’s what happens with these Daz, Chocolate, EEG, Decaf debates - the language of the forum is essentially coloquiall and yet it’s denied the physical contact that best suits its use. ‘Culturally sophisticated’ may be incomprehensible to some, and yet it’s easily understood because it sits within the wider framework of the society which spawned it. Do I not like that? - Leave it out.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
Good highlights site for u20's http://www.nos.nl/noswktot20/dagoverzicht/samenvattingen.html


Daz
June 16, 2005
Once a Nico: if you had watched Episode One of the last series of No Angels you would have seen jobsworth Sister Clare Fletcher pronounce the immortal words "Dem's de rules." several times Not writing for that show any longer but I'll let you know in good time when a character pronouces the immortal words: "That's nuance!"


Rob K
June 16, 2005
Clips of Freddy Adu: http://www.nike.com/nikesoccer/tiempo/freddy_adu/index_flash.html


Nico
June 16, 2005
Daz, you surely by now have enough on chocolate to make him the centrepiece of your next book or tv series episode. If you agree, I soooo look forward to reading it (but I also expect to see deja vu in the acknowledgements section - credt where credit's due). Howdy goonerguru!


Rotterdam Gooner
June 16, 2005
Today's the day guys, Robin's gonne find out if he gets another 14 days inside. Must say although he's been extremely stupid there's a lot of symphaty for him here, the girl he allegedly laid his hands on is known as a compulsive liar and a cheap ****, hope she gets what she deserves in due time.


Daz
June 16, 2005
Well done, Deja, and thank you. That's nuance! How could anybody not weep the departure of such didactic idiocy. How can people wonder why I'm obsessed. I had also forgbotten "simple yet complicated" .That's nuance! When you take a big chunk of another website and post it as your own words without quotation marks or source? That's nuance! The person who thinks you can be a) popular but b) hated like Hitler, PInochet and even George Bush? That's a mollusc! I had also forgotten that chocolate's status as Bernard's Delphic Oracle for "telling it like it is" over Jeffers had been termpered by his preference for Kluivert although I wonder how a man who ran over a theatre director while speeding counts a s "culturally sophisticated"? Now that you're back chocolate, would you take some time to tackkle these topics. In a nuanced way of course.


Long Time Gooner
June 16, 2005
Exiled in Newcastle. Superb post. Sums up my feelings about the situation entirely but far more eloquently than I coould ever have done. Many years ago I could have used the moniker 'Exiled in Yorkshire'. Then (mid 70's to early 80's) you could just turn up at a ground on the day so I've seen Arsenal at a wide range of away venues including some unlikely ones like Blackpool, York and Huddersfield. How do you get your fix in exile?


mcquilkie
June 16, 2005
Specifically, Associated Press reported: "Quincy remained the star with an assist and another outstanding performance."


mcquilkie
June 16, 2005
Another outstanding performance by Quincy against Australia, according to reports ...


Déjà Vu
June 16, 2005
Daz: this is the first recorded instance "… if you’re mike walker at Everton all those years back you automatically assume that the best position for some one like Dan Amokachi is upfront, because he is big and strong. That’s nuance. You look beyond the obvious for the little variations that make all the difference. It looks simple but because the game on the whole is simple but its nuanced as well. So you don’t have to go about reinventing the wheel or using John D’s ridiculous fractions to explain a straight forward game. I don’t expect you to understand it, Daz. So don’t even try. Cheers." But that probably pales alongside "… the sort of Prat that wrote off Cygan last season on the basis that if you didn’t have pace you would struggle to play the modern game… and now? we have silence. This is the sort of pretentious pseudo intellectual Big-Ron speak that you get from people who want you to think that the game is really complicated. It isn’t… but that’s what makes it so difficult. It’s the nuances…it’s the little things that make football judgement so difficult. It’s not the guys who give all the subbuteo spiel and all the Christmas three nonsense that win you titles.. it’s the guys who, on the whole, keep it simple." There was also an obsequious reference in a post to Nico, an angry barb aimed at EEG and of course that masterpiece to your goodself, where 'I find myself tempted to explain the common and universally known paradox of “simple yet complicated' to the self styled most educated man on the forum…" You must remember, he got the lot in that one - your writing. Pakistan, religion, single cell organisms, Carlos Bianchi, African and Brazilian football culture, PhD, Bmurph, and a special sign off "you seem truly stupid you're just so borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring. Prat."…………And Bernard: your seal of approval and love in with chocolate on the issue of Jeffers is all well and good, but you omit to mention that his call was for Kluivert…….While I'm on this roll I, perhaps, should ask Niall if he saw that posting where Cannon Balls said he thought Gilles Grimandi was not rubbish.


dublin gooner
June 16, 2005
socrates. yeah i see youre point about putting an established name in front of the youngsters mentioned. problem is, if we buy a star striker in mid 20's they are likely to be around for a while, some of are kids will be the superstars of the next few years ie. van persie(hopefully),quincy, lupoli, so this issue only needs to be adressed until that time, do we buy someone like montella who is 31 but scored 21 goals for roma in the league? he couldnt be that expensive at that age, would have alot of experience and also wouildnt be in the way of the kids for too long. not saying we buy him but something like that could be an answer to the problem. although to be honest, calling it a problem sounds a bit strange anyway doesnt it considering some of the players we have coming through.


AmericanGooner
June 16, 2005
We're on our way. http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3691620


AmericanGooner
June 16, 2005
How arrogant can Fergie be. As if anyone cares what he thinks of tactics. He needs to get his own club's tactics sorted before opining on others: http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3691284


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
Mee - strange. Just tried it myself and it works. Anyway (and I'm sorry to those for whom this is old news)... An Open Letter To Ashley Cole. Dear Ashley, Last week I wrote a cheque for £1,295. Now I know to you that’s probably small change (a good nights sleep will earn you more) but to me it’s a lot of money. And why did I write that cheque? I’ll tell you, as you probably have no idea. That’s what my season ticket for Highbury is costing me next season. That works out a spit short of 50 quid every game (or maybe a pair of socks for you). Now please don’t get me wrong, I actually don’t begrudge you your wages. I don’t mind the fact that you’ll earn more this year than most of us will probably earn in a lifetime. What does make me mad is hearing your representatives and lawyers bitching about how unfair the whole system is. I’ve even seen headlines comparing footballers contracts with slavery! If it wasn’t so sickening the concept of multi-millionaire slaves would be a good sit-com idea. Let’s get it straight – all you’re expected to do is honour your contract and not speak to other clubs (especially who and when) whilst you’re supposed to be discussing a new contract with Arsenal. Not much really, is it. Footballers have always been well paid in comparison to the average person, from way back when. The £8 a week players earned during the season (£4 summer) in the 30’s was in no way excessive, but certainly a comfortable wage compared with the average worker. Even more so as the depression bit. The retain and transfer system in place then that lasted through to Jimmy Hill’s campaign (with George Eastham as an uncomfortable figurehead) to change that and remove the maximum wage in the early 60’s, which directly led to the first £100 footballers in this country (I believe Johnny Haines at Fulham was the first). There was still a genuine injustice in the system though; in so much as even after a player had seen out their contract clubs could still demand a transfer fee. Bosman put an end to that, and whilst it wasn’t good for football in general I couldn’t disagree with the fairness of it being overturned. But now we have your people bleating about how footballers are the modern slaves! Ashley, it’s sickening in a world where genuine slavery still exists for someone on a reported £27,000 a week to be compared with them. Absolutely sickening. But with the self interest (and self importance) of players these days I’m in no way surprised to read it. Every day of the year, where ever you are and whatever you’re doing you’re earning nearly £4000. Some slavery. People to pander to your needs and pamper you (paid for by the club not you). Luxury travel everywhere you go (and don’t start telling me that it’s a hard life with all the travel – try schlepping 600 miles up and down the M1 to every home game like I do!). The best of everything. Even the clothes you ‘work’ in are provided for free! And I must point out that you appeared very happy with the contract when you feely signed it (or was that nasty Mr Dein holding a gun to your head?). Now a dose of the real world for you. If you were there you’d know that us mortals only get paid when we’re at work. We might be lucky enough to work for a firm with a subsidised canteen where we can eat our lunch – not the free canteen you get at the training ground. Like you we have to negotiate wage rises, but in the real world. When I sign a contract for something it normally gives a period of notice each side has to give. I could be gone in a few weeks with no come back. You signed a contract where you were paid £27,000 every week for five years. It’s called a fixed term contract and you agreed to honour it. Now you’re not and it’s ‘poor you’. It’s sickening. Another sickening thing is when you say how you’ve always given Arsenal 100% on the pitch as if we should be grateful for that. Well we’re not - we DEMAND it. Giving 100% is the absolute minimum that we should expect from players. Form may mysteriously come and go – we accept that – but you should be giving 100% as a matter of course. Then I read your bleating article in the Sunday papers (the rag of rags no less – the horrible one that you and your agent said lied about the meeting happening). By the way – how much did you trouser for that article? £10k…£20k? And Ashley – you make me sick to the pit of my stomach. You say that you wanted £60k a week. Fair enough, I’ve got to admit I’ve never been shy about asking for a wage rise. But then you try to justify everything you did because Arsenal had the temerity not to completely acquiesce to your demands. It really is beyond belief. Well, Ash, sod you and your snivelling agent (who expected Arsenal to pay him for you signing a new contract – he’s your agent, you pay him!). And don’t even try all this bull about feeling forced out of the club you (claim to) love, and how you feel you won’t be able to put on your ‘beloved’ Arsenal shirt again. You did this. Not David Dein or the board. YOU. When this story first broke I was strongly of the opinion that you shouldn’t be judged until the commission had sat. I wouldn’t boo you; I actively cheered you at games. I thought you really were ‘one of us’ who’d just got caught up in something by mistake. But you’re not, you’re one of ‘them’. Just another footballer that doesn’t give a toss about anyone but yourself. If you though that sordid article was going to ingratiate you with the fans and that we’d think poor little Ash has been hard done by then you were wrong. Very wrong. As far as I’m concerned I’m through with you. I hope you sod off somewhere (I’ve even seen Real Madrid touted – another example of you and principles…) and your career nose-dives as most do when they leave Wenger’s Arsenal. Mind you if I was on the board then the able Clichy would be first choice next season and you would rot in the reserves for two years. What would your earning potential be then? If you ever actually read this and feel I’ve been unfair then contact me and I’ll give you a chance to reply to any of the points. But you won’t will you… we’re only fans. It’s not like we matter to you. Sincerely yours, Exiled In Newcastle.


GaryS
June 16, 2005
Holland 3 Australia 0 - anyone see any of it?


Mee
June 16, 2005
Exiled: I’ve tried that link on two different machines (macs) and each time it crashes - is it too long to post onto the forum?


AmericanGooner
June 16, 2005
Nick Hornby is in town on a book signing. I plan on showing up at one of his readings with an Arsenal shirt. I hope he signs Fever Pitch for me. Don't know if the new book is any good.


AmericanGooner
June 16, 2005
Pennant may eventually end up at the Footballers School of Rehabilitation, otherwise known as Bolton Wanderers under headmaster fat Sam Allarydyck..er...dyce..sorry ; ) **** While I am excited about any signings coming into the squad, I am bouyed by the fact that there isn't much improvenment needed. We didn't lose the title because we were short at a position. It was pschological. Had we dealt with the first Man Yoo lost better we'd have fought Chelsea the whole way. Who knows what would have happened. They could 'relax' a little after the first weekn in February knowing the title race was over after we lost the Man Yoo game. Had we beaten Soton, Palace and WBA as we normally would have in any other season, it would have been a true race and who knows how Chelsea would have responded to the pressure. Basically, new signings is just making a great team a wee bit stronger.


socrates
June 16, 2005
Dublin Gooner.......I always thought Martins had amazing potential, still very raw but with pace to burn and perfect for Wenger too work with , but never really considered him at Arsenal because I assumed Inter would not be stupid enough to let him go. Having said that, Juve let Henry go so who knows. Buying an established striker, who presumably would be an automatic starter, might not go down too well with the likes of Van Persie, Reyes, Aliadiere etc but it would be nice to have a 15-20 goal a season man alongside Henry. Van Persie is shaping up nicely but it remains to be seen whether he can stay out of trouble long enough to forge a really top level career. How often, for example, do you see Henry, Bergkamp, Pires or Vieira in trouble off the pitch....virtually never. He has to learn and learn quickly.


Dboo
June 16, 2005
Regarding Torres, it is not impossible that Wenger could buy him. Wenger has stated he will be buying 3 players, one of whom will take us to the next level, a real star player. I can easily see Wenger spending £20M on a player. Remember after so many false dawns, Wenger knows Arsenal are at a crossroad. Can we take the next step especially with the way Liverpool won the Champions League? He knows we need that one superstar who will lift the team and the fans and really make everyone believe that this could be the year. So I can see spending quite big on the right player hence the links with Torres and Robinho.


TOP GUN
June 16, 2005
Exiled forgive me for not being bothered to type the entire bloody page out but you get the gist of his comments. Having said that you must sleep with that thing under your pillow mate, a man after my own heart.


goonerguru
June 16, 2005
Mee,just by coincedence,my son has been doing some work at Steve Bruce house the last few days and he said that Bruce has been in a foul mood this week where as last week he was quite chatty,he thought he had a bust up with his wife but maybe he was thinking about Pennant.


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
Mee- http://www.arsenal-mania.com/?page=articles&view=full&article=244285


Exiled In Newcastle
June 16, 2005
Top Gun - If you were going to quote the book, then why did you miss the chunk that goes between those two you've used. The bits that say about what he overheard Howe telling Rice. Or where he says that he'd played the last 13 games but hadn't been right. Or that his ankle,knee and back were all aching. Or the (actual) 2nd quote 'I still believed that all me criticism of the team and certain individuals were valid, but now it was time to examine my own role in things and whether I could go on'. He then talks about his meeting with Arsene. Not exactly (or even remotely)like the point you wanted to make, but hey, there's the facts I'm afraid.


dublin gooner
June 16, 2005
no problem socrates. yeah pretty unlikely i know. but just imagine having someone of that quality up alongside th14 next season while he is at the top of his game. as opposed to in 2/3 years when he may no longer be so pacey when players like quincy have developed. sometimes i wonder why wenger doesnt just go for it. granted, no point spending money for the sake of it, but with the 40 or so million we are rumoured to have this summer it would be possible to make a big buy, maybe not a adriano, but not a samaras either (who the hell is he). we have enough young strikers on the books already, aliadiere, quincy, lupoli etc. i havent even heard of nicklas bendtner since we bought him.


Mee
June 16, 2005
American - interesting piece about Pennant - what do they say about people in