Steve Gleiber's Arsenal Supporters Forum

Nico
March 31, 2005

Nikola, the general belief here is that there is not an awful lot of Arsenal stuff to post about during international week and on previous occasions people tended to wring their hands in frustration at the boredom of it all. And now out of the blue, partly I guess in the wake of Stevie Gleiber's untimely and much lamented passing, this memory lane stuff turns up and grows like a beautiful flower and has acted as a brilliant antidote to the boredom (at least in me), keeping things ticking over nicely and killing time until the Norwich City game. It's obviously up to you whether you can be arsed with it or not, but don't knock it, and as an Arsenal fan, there's also some interesting stuff to pick up from it as well and as Mee says, historical info is sometimes well worth reading as a guide to the present. Anyway, like you probably, I'm itching all over for Saturday's Prem restart when I would expect up-to-date commentary and banter to get going once again here with renewed vigour. As for the role of forum handles to provide a figleaf for who knows what, I tend to agree with you, though there may be mitigating circumstances. I mean Jack the Ripper sounds a whole lot less sensational than HRH! Plus it's in everyone's choice, so who cares that much? I mean you can't dictate to people what they call themselves, can you? I agree that politics and religion have no place here, but that jokes most certainly do. Anyway, keep hammering away - your views are fresh and interesting, although maybe you should calm down just a tad. On to football - how do you know SWP is going nowhere until his contract's up? And 2nd question - how do you know Beckham won't be joining us? It's not what I heard at the end of last season. What I heard from an insider (though I admit a remote one) was that Arsenal have been working on this project for quite some time. It's very complex (involving many conflictual sponsorships), but they consider it worthwhile for a number of reasons. The business side likes the idea because, on top of everything else, it will probably boost luxury ticket sales at the new stadium (which after a great start have recently slowed down markedly due to our erratic season, and which need to be resold season after season, so expect more big name/money deals year by year). And from a footballing point of view, here is a guy who's won most things, who has tremendous European experience, a great work rate, a great role model, a superb dead ball practitioner, who can pass the ball accurately up to 60 metres bound hand and foot in a wheel chair so to speak - so much so it doesn't matter how fast he can run or how well he can dribble. We need strengthening on the right hand side, and if SWP isn't joining, then who else would you rather have to strengthen that side of the field, particularly as he and his wife are keen? One in the eye for the drunken jock - it would be a great move by Arsenal, and Wenger would see to it that his career is extended a further 5 years at least and extract maximum value from what may seem at the outset to be an expensive deal. Where's the catch, now? Can you tell me? Oh, and I'd also take Emre from Inter, and Martins if he's offered. Would or should we give up Paddy in part exchange? Perhaps, and if Essien is anything like what I keep hearing, we should secure his services to replace him.

Nikola
nn0077@hotmail.com
March 31, 2005

Well Sven at least I know other fashion labels ahead of the ones which read: THE CHARITY SHOP.

Nikola
nn0077@hotmail.com
March 31, 2005

I see Wenger's era as a newest chapter in a book called Arsenal, that is why I would like it to be the centre of discussion. I am sure there are people out there that would include the past 20-30 or over 50 years but for me even yesterday is the past and I like to look to things I can change not the things I can't. To go back on the Henry comments: there are two things which are almost certain, Henry WILL become the top scorer for Arsenal ahead of Wright, secondly with the way this club is progressing in my lifetime another No9,10,11,14 will come in and he will become the greatest goalscorer ahead of him, and that is why I said I will avoid telling people that once Henry was the greatest goalscorer for Arsenal.

its only ray parlour
March 31, 2005

Minor grievance with the current site. Could someone please shift the text alignment to the right abit. It's far to close to the edge of the screen for my liking. Sorry.

Hey honey,
March 31, 2005

breaks over, back in the kitchen the dishes need washing!

Sven
March 31, 2005

Look, babe, don`t come here and dictate what we should talk about and what not. Keep cool. I thought being young did not mean being dumb and over emotional...but in your case I have to re-think. Try tiddlywinks or dolls. Don`t even dare to think you can talk about UEFA because you probably think it is a fashion outlet.

Mee
March 31, 2005

Nikola:Thanks for those comments. speaking as the original old fogey, I note that you became a supporter in 1997/1998 - a double season. That’s more than six years ago and yet you wish to remind us of it. How can you be sure that Henry was the top goalscorer without some recourse to the records. Surely goalscoring records are in the past, you need to dwell on the present and the future. When exactly in your world, does the past become history? perhaps everything before 1997. You will find, my friend, that the past informs the present and determines the future. All of the postees to this forum, including the older members who rememeber the past, also post informed comment and wisdom about the present and future. Your defence of the pre-Abramovich Chelsea supporters offers a lie to your supposed beliefs. I await the time when you discuss football with some friends sometime in the future without the need to mention TH14. Ajax had a guy once called Cruyff, and a little fat bloke called Maradona once played a bit, but that’s another story.

Nikola
nn0077@hotmail.com
March 31, 2005

Oh, and Sven how about you tell us what u did in your past. Maybe collecting toy Volvos, being a manager in Ikea or maybe piloting a Saab plane, BLESS.

Nikola
nn0077@hotmail.com
March 31, 2005

Look Sven, u have an UNHEALTHY obsession with UEFA. And even thou it is not good to encourage patients to explore their obsessions, I will make an exception to the rule in your case. So how about u go away for a while and write up a million word essay titled: UEFA trip down memory lane!!!

Bernard
March 31, 2005

Cannon Balls, agree fully with your last post. Thanks for that info, Darren.

Sven
March 31, 2005

Nikola, being able to walk down memory lane is the charm of this forum. Maybe you should have stuck to Formula One.

Sven
March 31, 2005

Chelsea are upstarts and there thing will not last forever. The real power goes to the man who runs UEFA.

Nikola
nn0077@hotmail.com
March 31, 2005

Hi Gooners, I am usually on the Rumour Mill because I believe the Supporters Forum goes TOO far on unnecessary tangents (past, religion, general crap...). I have read over the past month or so of Posts and I have to make a few comments. Firstly the older Gooners out there, I respect that u have been fans long before I was born, that u know all the scores, names and dates, but all I can read is blah blah blah. These things don't mean much to me or to most of us here. It reminds me of the stories that old people tell about the war... When I am old, I will go out of my way not to mention how Henry was the top scorer for Arsenal, etc. I believe the forum should be kept up to date with the present and the possible future, things we can speculate on and hopefully have some sort of influence over. That is why we should stick to the Wenger Arsenal Years as well as some occasional jokes. I will be happy to have your opinions on what YOU would like to see happen and how but not who scored in the 1960's FA cup final or something, while my opinions are on the Rumour Mill and I hate to repeat myself. I admit I have only been a fan since the 1997/1998 Double season and before that I preferred Formula 1 to football, but over the past eight years I have grown to love Arsenal. And even thou I only manage to go to games once or twice a year, there is not a game that goes past that I don't feel joy or sadness over. Another thing that REALLY pissed me off, are the American Postings: I mean you can't just come and post normally under First Names or Joke Nicknames, but it has to be USAthis and Americanthat. People just HAVE to be made aware of where u are from don't they? There make posts from all over the world but you are the VISIBLE ones. And all this OBSESSION about your flag, you know on one side should be the stars and stripes and on the other should be a mirror so u can look yourselves IN IT or leave it blanc so u can draw whatever suits you at that particular time. Furthermore your wining about the Mexico game: Well BOOHOO, wake up and realise that you have brought it on yourselves!!! Thirdly about the SWP situation which u guys have a particular affinity to here, HE IS NOT COMING THIS SUMMER. He will stay with City until next summer (when his contract runs out) and than he will join us on a FREE with his stepfathers blessing, about the Beckham & Vieira rumours, just Madrid & Inter offloading players they don't want on us. How about we start the rumour of Cassilas for Lehmann, or Edu for Martins. C’mon on u can not possibly buy this Marca shit for real? We should give as good as we get, just feed the back page hunger of the Sun, Mirror and the Sunday Porn, I mean Sport. My last but not lease call is the contentious issue of Chelsea. My best friend is a Chelsea supporter. He has supported them all his life, for almost 30 years. Before the upgrades to the Bridge were completed, they had a crap stadium, open air toilets and so on. He is ashamed what Mouninio and Red Ken have done to Chelsea’s name in less than a year. There is a little story about how real fans everywhere feel about the people just jumping on the bandwagon. In a pub in Chelsea, two rich “Russian” Chav supporters walk in with the brand new un-creased kits and Rolexes, and the whole pub full or grass root supporters turns around and sings: WHERE WERE U WHEN WE WERE SHIT? I will only slate down supporters, including ours, who indiscriminately try and defend EVERYTHING their club is does, because a healthy dose of criticism is better than just having YES men in your ranks. In my case I started supporting Arsenal when they won the double, and I admit I was partially attracted by the success. But I didn't bail out on us when the going was tough, when we were loosing, because loyalty is the most important aspect in life. That is why I admire the long term fans a lot, I would just like to see more relevant information posted rather than a walk down memory lane, because we are not Spurs and we have a bright future to look forward to not just our glorious past.

Cannon Balls
March 31, 2005

Well Blatters been running World Football since like it seems forever and that's not done the Germans any favours that i can think of. Come on BM stuff the Blue Scum they are the biggest danger to football.

Sven
March 30, 2005

Many do not understand that if Beckenbauer becomes UEFA boss the PL clubs will be at a great disadvantage. Why? Because Germany are very sore about losing out that 4th Champions League spot which Englsh clubs have now. You can bet your bottom dollar that once the kaiser is in, UEFA`s referees will do all they can to please their new boss i.e. Bayern, the Bundesliga and Germany will rule supreme once more. Just like in the days of Hermann Neuberger, the former DFB boss who used to be vice-chairman of FIFA. There used to be a time when refs whistled for the Italians (60`s), then the Germans (70`s and eighties). Since Neuberger left, things changed. Believe you me. I can expect the avalanch of scorn that will now follow this posting from our pseudo-European faction but as someone pointed out before, you should listen more to those who live on the Continent than those whose only aim is to bicker with other Cockney supporters at work. Platini any time as UEFA boss. The Kaiser will not exactly be endearing to Arsenal etc. He will take the job purely for patriotic reasons and not for the sake of football itself. The German press have been imploring him to do so for weeks. Help the cause of German football, oh Kaiser they say. Now Uefas boss should be interested in European footballas a whole, I say and not go in to the job in order to help his bretheren.

Nico
March 30, 2005

Mee, my take on it is that, since, through their persistent lying, cheating, and intimidation of all on-field and off-field authorities, press, opposition coaching staff and players, both Pinocchio and the drunken jock have been to Hell and back several times before finally retiring there in a basket, Hell's clearly still admitting souls and is therefore endothermic. And since they don't stand a snow ball's chance in Hell, this makes the both of them exothermic!

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

Someone once remarked about Heaven and Hell, just think heaven is full of wise women who were wise Virgins while the unwise ones are in hell, hmm..

Mee
March 30, 2005

Nico: The award of an ‘A’ for that theory speaks volumes about the examining body. I take it Mourinho is an example of both exothermic and endothermic behaviour in that he gives off heat within the technical area, but cools rapidly during the post-match interview.

Mee
March 30, 2005

SOLMAN
March 30, 2005

I thought Tommy Caton sadly commited suicide , I could be wrong

Nico
March 30, 2005

The following is supposedly an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet (which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well). Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following: First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing with time. Also, we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world, today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities: 1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. 2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you", and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then Number 2 must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct...leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God." THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A" . Would you believe it?

Thanks Pat Rice
March 30, 2005

I have only just come across the sad news, work commitments in March means I have not been able to keep up to date. There is not much I can say that has not already been said. The Martin Peters of web site hosts. Thanks Steve Gleiber

Mee
March 30, 2005

Steve Martin: Steve you can‘t leave on a 3-2 defeat, especially against Leeds - you can get Alan Shearer to creosote your fence or paint the kitchen - just imagine, the smell of burgers and hot dogs mixed with horse dung, the first glimpse of the north bank stand from the tube station, the turnstile crush, replica shirts on fat old men . . . . get a real life!

East End Gooner
March 30, 2005

Steve - quite a strange post where you say all the great times you had and memories you are left with from Arsenal games but you dont miss them a bit now. I can see where you are coming from as I pick and choose my matches more carefully now but the reason you dont miss them is because you dont know what you have missed. It isn't until you are at the game, or travelling, or in the pub that the experiences come about. Watching the game live or later means of course you dont miss the football but I can guarantee you that you did miss a great experience against Middlesbro. And you did miss a good time before, during and after we played Chelsea when, despite the frustration at the draw, we reasserted ourselves for a time. And you definitely missed the great feeling in the pub of the aftermath of the best attacking display of my lifetime against Villa. So while. like you I miss a fair few games, I would never pretend that people aren't getting loads out of going.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Sorry Darren I got it in my head that he died in the last couple of years or so,I stand corrected.

Darren
March 30, 2005

Goonerguru - here's a piece from an article I found on Caton - Early in 1993 he was forced to announce his retirement and then in April the same year Tommy tragically died at the age of 30 of a heart-attack. Frightening when you think the guy died 4 years younger than I am now!

Darren
March 30, 2005

Goonerguru - he died at least 10 years ago and I'm sure he was early thirties at the oldest. I'll google it and find out.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Have just looked at Eskimo's link to Lupoli,I was amazed at his goal scoring record for us,He is still only 17 and in all competitions he has scored 24 goals from 29 appearences,reserves 17 games 16 goals,Under 18's 6 games 6 goals,FA Youth Cup 2 games 1 goal,League Cup 3 games 2 goals and 1 game in the FA Cup.

steve martin
March 30, 2005

Man & Boy (daz) I have been going over the Arse (H&A) for 41 years, taking in on avearge 30 games a season, during that time I would have seen 1200 games give or take a few... I have memories of loads of them, like Nottingham away in the FA Cup, Anfield,Etc... Lots of recent posts have brought memories back as well... The Arsenal have given me some of the greatest moments in my life, both sporting and social... Not been to a game since the one before we lost to Leeds 3-2 at home the season before last, the funny thing, I've not missed it one bit...

steve martin
March 30, 2005

Niall, the 1-1 draw at Anfield, what a night for the fans, we had the whole of the opposite end to the Kop... A steward standing next to us, said he had never seen fans like Arsenals at Anfield and he had been a steward for 25 years at the time... The noise was defening... Must say I have enjoyed reading the site over the last few days, hope it stays that way...

Parkerknoll Gooner
March 30, 2005

Took the kids to see the "outlaws" for Easter and it's taken me a couple of days to catch up on all the posts. Seeing a lot of the names appearing that used to be regular contributors when I first started lurking brought a smile to my face and the recent posts concerning best and worst players has added to the memory lane feeling. So many points raised it's difficult not to respond in a scattergun fashion but here goes: Reyes appears to be on the way which is a great shame as he is a terrific talent which we've only seen hints of at THOF, for me the Aragones fall out has done for him; If RM want him then Cassilas would be the most attractive exchange but do not rule out a return to Seville, the deal which brought Reyes to the Club was convoluted so unless he returns to them I would guess they will be owed a fair chunk of any fee; Beckham, thanks but no thanks, if we incorporated the NFL special teams principle then he'd be worth a place as a freekick and corner specialist otherwise offers us nothing; Pennant, how do we get £3m for him when he's out of contract in the summer; Past signings that got the blood up in anticipation SuperMac, Bergkamp and Reyes; Past departures that got me throwing the rope over the bannisters in despair Brady, Kennedy, Thomas, Rocastle in fact most of our decent players as you knew the likliehood of someone better coming the other way was unlikely and I'm praying that this summer the Club bucks the trend; As my memory aligns more with a goldfish than an elephant the standout moments for me are the Swindon debacle and thinking how fortunate Bobby Goulds father was that he could not see it, spending the summer of '71 replicating Charlies celebration everytime I scored over the park, being thankfull to my brother for not going to the '79 final as he'd jinxed us against West Ham and Ipswich, after weeks of "we're coming to get ya" taunts from my scouse next door neighbour finally having the last laugh in '89; and finally, as I'm boring myself now, Kanoute being sent back to WHL surely a fate worse than death! PTBAG and great to see the site going from strength to strength, more power to RobK, Roger and Niall.

Niall
March 30, 2005

That's right Goonerguru it was a nice touch that. Looking back, a big turning point (though it looked bad at the time) was Liverpool hammering West Ham 5-1 in their penultimate game that ensured we would have to win by two goals. If they had only won that 1-0 I wonder if the outcome would have been different. Another memorable game from that season (I think) was a 1-1 draw at Anfield in the League Cup where Rocky Rocastle scored an absolute screamer. We played them off the park that night and I remember thinking hey, we have a team here after that match. The couple of years previously we had started well under Graham but faded away in the second half of the season.

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

I see that Sir Alex was given another award for his achievements in football last night with David Oh'Dreary presenting him with a trophy on the rostrum for some inexplicable reason. The usual suspects were trotted out to pay servile homage to the 'gaffer'; Brainless Brian of coursewas in the forefront tugging at the non-existent forelock, closely pursued by Teddy in the cringing gushing praise of the drunken jock. Teddy expects Sir Alex to win at least the FA Cup he reasons: - "Because he always wins something". Red-nosed Peter goes one further and tips him to win the Premiership title too!. Watching all of this nonsense on Sky Sports i got a feeling of unreality about it, a touch of 'deja-vu' - we have been here before, often. The only one who sounded sane was 'Mad Eric', when he was asked if Sir Alex could win the League Title he gave a little enigmatic smile and muttered: "No comment". Says it all really. Meanwhile up at OT the glazed eyed Smurf continues his relentless campaign to gain control of the club that he already owns half of. His latest bid of £790m looks like a winner, 300p a share on offer to fed up shareholders facing a further loss of profits by the end of season due to Sir Alex's failings on the field. The acceptance however of Malcom G's genorous offer will plunge the club into an immediate £200m of actual debt.If it is turned down he has contingency plans to raise the stake higher,the result of this will be even more of a debt incurred by the club when he inevitably gets his way. Which of course will have to come out of the pockets of the Muppet supporters in raised ticket prices. Let us see if they get a full stadium at the: 'Theatre Of Dreams'when the Muppets have to pay £40 instead of the present £29. And that's on top of all that travelling from Dublin, Dorset and places too numerious to mention. I guess that it does not have the same feeling of glamour either when they are not associating themselves with glory,knowing in fact that they just getting ripped off by an American businessman will make it even more of a painful experience, theatre of dreams? - more like a nightmares.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Darren,I think Tommy Caton was older than 31 when he died,he was born in 1962, I would guess nearer 41 but still very young.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Niall,was it the Liverpool game when the Arsenal team ran out on to the pitch carrying bouquet's of flowers and threw them into the crowd,which I thought was a nice move on our part.

Niall
March 30, 2005

American, Liverpool were caught between two stools that night. They have admitted themselves that they didn't expect to lose the game 2-0 and I remember the commentator Brian Moore pointing out that it was quite some length of time since Liverpool had lost at Anfield by two goals until that night. Once it went 1-0 I think they though well we'll just hold onto what we have Arsenal will never score a second. Of course the rest is history, but Arsenal played really well that night. Bould had a great chance from a set piece in the first half and Mickey Thomas looked like he'd blown it for us when he shot right at Grobbelaar from around the edge of box with a free sight at goal. If Liverpool had went for the jugular it probably would have been a different story, but thats football and it worked out brilliantly for us. Was a great night, one of those where you'll always remember where you were and what you did when Thomas fired home that legendary goal. Most Arsenal fans could probaly even quote you the Brian Moore commentary..."Arsenal come streaming forward now in what will sutrely be their last attack.....a good ball by Dixon finding Smith...Thomas, bursting through the midfield...Thomas!! It's up for grabs now!!!!! Cue pandemonium!

Darren
March 30, 2005

Daz- the rate that Apple churn out new products at the expense of their existing ones is a bit naughty really. I need to think about upgrading mine as my 10gb limit is irritating. I NEED more albums on there that I will never listen to! Mind you, the random playback function is brilliant. It makes you realise how little you know of your own record collection. I wish I had a £1 for everytime I ask myself "who the hell is this?". Harlow - By the end of the international week we will only have the board left at the club if the papers are to be believed. We all know there will be comings and goings in the summer, the press know it but it does seem a case of throwing enough E*g in the hope that some will stick somewhere.

Daz
March 30, 2005

Were Eskimo's parents an..ahem...'alternative' couple then?

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Eskimo,Nico is quite right you were born the day after the West Ham defeat but have no fear everyone has a red and white letter day,I have it on good authority because 1984 was a leap year and you were a tadge late arriving in this world you were conceived on the night of Feb 25th 1984 after Arsenal had beaten Notts Forest 1-0 away,Paul Mariner scoring the winner,full marks to Mrs and Mrs Eskimo.

Daz
March 30, 2005

Didn't know that, Darren. Took my I-Pod back to be mended yesterday and apparently they don't do the 40gig version any more. They only do a 30 or a 60 both with photos. 30 is too small and 60 too big and I don't want photos anyway. It's all very annoying. Harlow: that''s hardly plumbing depths of journalistic depravity - they're transfer rumours and some of them have a certain degree of plausibility. I think we might keep Cole after all this.

Darren
March 30, 2005

Bernard - Caton died of a heart attack. He was only 30-31. Linked to heavy alcohol abuse apparently. Daz- Kirsty McCall was fab, yet so underated. My wife's a bigger fan than I am, but I can wholly appreciate her, sadly lost, talent Did you know her dad, Ewan, wrote, "First Time ever I Saw Your Face"?.

steve martin
March 30, 2005

Once again the International week shows how the media can sink to the lowest depths to fill their pages… Since our last league game, Vieira’s linked to Inter, TH14, to Barcelona, Aliadiere to PSG, Edu, once again to Valencia… Cole’s on his way, Chelsea’s the good bet… Pires may be out, along with Dennis… Campbell’s England career is over… Ljungberg, wants to quit International, Oh! no he doesn’t!!! Taylor looked like he is on he’s way… Pennant’s off to Birmingham… Would the last one out of Highbury, please turn off the lights and refund the fans the ticket money… Which goes to show how interesting the Intenationals really are...

Daz
March 30, 2005

Bernard, it would have to be three by the brilliant Kate Gartside. You're too kind, Nico, but no need to worry about my giant ego I was just having a Kirsty McColl nostalgia moment. Saw Open Water last night on DVD. How depressing is that???? When I watch a disaster movie I want the rescue boat to arrive just as our heros have given up all hope. Bloody independent film-makers giving me nightmares although the female lead was rather fetching.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

BBC Gossip Column -' Barcelona are planning a £35m summer move for Arsenal striker Thierry Henry. (The Sun)'. So, the Sun sees something on the net, adds a bit to the highest figure and converts Euros to Sterling.

Long Time Gooner
March 30, 2005

Dormouse. Great post re Swindon final. Captures my feelings about it completely. PS American - yes it was at Wembley

old man of hoy
March 30, 2005

Eskimo - never forget your 16 months of following the Arsenal is just the first steps on a long journey. In 30 years time you will be telling anybody who cares to listen about the Van Nistlerooy incident; Cygan - was he the worst defender ever seen at Highbury or has history been unkind; Reyes - how you saw him for a season and a half before he went off to Real and became the great player who eventually won Spain the World Cup; Fabregas - was he the best captain the club ever had? Tottenham - i remember when they were in the Premiership. If you are interested in the history of Gunners i recommend Phil Soar and Martin Tyler's The Illustrated History of Arsenal as a good overview. The collar calls so off i go into the vast rainy grey Metropolis to earn a crust. Good morning all - enjoy your day. There was an english man an irish man and a jewish man and they all decided to go in a helicopter. While they were up in the sky the english man threw a dagger out of the door, the irish man threw a sword out of the door and the jewish man threw a bomb out of the door. When they landed the english man went home and found his dad sitting on the floor crying so he said "whats up dad?" and his dad said "a dagger has just fell from the sky and stabbed your mum." Then the irish man went home and found his sister sitting on the floor crying so he said "whats up sis?" so she told him "a sword fell from the sky and stabbed mum and dad." Then the Jewish man went home and found his dad lying on the couch crying with laughter so he said "whats so funny pop?" so his dad replied " i've just farted an next doors house blew up!"

Eskimo
March 30, 2005

Not important but there's a little article on Arsenal.com about Lupoli and it says in it that Vialli tipped off Niedzwicki about him. Any ideas why he tipped us off and not some other club's scout?

Dean
sirtur@shaw.ca
March 30, 2005

Nobby was a great instigater on some of the old IRC. He was also very willing to help any poor schlep, such as I, who wanted to make a connection to the current server or whatever providing service. He led from the front, never afraid to express his opinions, never afraid to throw in a daft comment to get an exchange going! Once IRC was suplanted by good old TV the banter and interaction was lost; but Nobby the Moose will always remain.

Azinoz
March 30, 2005

American, I know what you are saying, but I guess with the CL in their sights the fans are begining to PANIC. What a shame

Azinoz
March 30, 2005

American, All except the very early league cup finals were played at Wembley, certainly all ours have been. Our Inter Cities Fairs Cup final was played over two legs, home and away. I remember Bob Wilson our goalkeeper at the time, was the only player who managed to complete a lap of honour just about everyone in the stadium that night was on the pitch partying. First piece of silverware for 17 years. The joke going around at the time was - Q.What is the easiest job in football? A. cleaning out Arsenal's trophy cabinet.My High School was just off Tottenham High Road at Bruce Grove I was surrounded by the B......ds and at the time they had that great double side. So that victory especially after the Swindon defeat restored my belief in God. Anyway alls well that ends well and we've done okay over the years so you won't hear me complaining.

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

azinoz, its the attempt that is so laughable.

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

I'm AmericanGooner damn it. If I write the FA they better listen...and act!!

Azinoz
March 30, 2005

American Re the Chelsea petition-I am and have been involved with the organisation of local football here in Sydney for the last 18 years and I can tell you any corresspondence that is'nt issued directly from any club that may be under investigation will almost certainly be ignored by the investigating commitee. If the commitee requests it then that's a different story. It's just like if you try to email the FA with some kind of complaint your message is acknowledged but at the end of the day carries no weight at all.

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

Dormouse, was the league cup final at Highbury or Wembley? **** Mee, the win at OT was my 'Anfield' I guess. Man Yoo tried to kick us off the pitch I recall but we wouldn't go down and shrugged it off. The game was never in doubt. I had to read about the '98 season, as I didn't have access in those days.

Tony.C
March 30, 2005

Having been away in Thailand recently I've only just read the news and despite knowing Steves situation previously, I am still reeling. Many many years ago I came across this site and instantly found myself addicted to it, and despite the tens/hundreds/thousands of Arsenal sites created since, I find myself always coming back to this one regardless. It takes a special person to bring together such a large number of people as Steve did, and especially to keep them together, as Steve managed to do. Back in 1990 my Dad was diagnosed with Colon cancer and was given 6 months to live, words cannot express how I felt when he told me the news. He lived for 14 months from that day and just managed to see Arsenal lift the Championship in 1991, passing away a few days later at the age of 56. He continued to go to games up until a few months before his passing, enduring a bit of light hearted banter from fellow Gooners because he had to sit down often on the terracing because he felt so tired during a game, I felt like berating the mickey takers because they didn't know the reasons behind it but my dad just laughed it all off, and that's what I bet Steve is doing right now. Far too many good people are taken from us in their prime. RIP Steve and thank you for providing all Gooners with this web site and my deepfelt condolences to your family and friends. Tony C.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

Of course, I was there for my most sickening Arsenal moment(s) - the loss to Swindon already referred to. I'd spent all my years at school with Arsenal mediocrity, celebrating the few occasions when we finished comfortably in the top half of the table.Savouring each (single) victory; spending some seasons being mocked, even by Chelsea supporters (& Chelsea got quite modish at the time). The spuds double. And then we got to the League Cup final against a 3rd Division team. Surely we couldn't lose; Swindon were no Leeds. I was certain that the match was just a formality. The year before I had hoped but had not expected us to win, so coped relatively OK; I was used to coping with us not winning anyway. For some reason, I was standing in an area where there were quite a few Swindon fans, with thick Wiltshire accents. I remember feeling quite patronising, that they'd come up to town for the game to support their team even though they knew they were going to lose. I remember quite a bit of the game, I well remember Ian Ure. I remember the feeling of devastation made worse by having to travel back on the train with a lot of Seindon fans (I lived in Berkshire at the time). Not sure I ever completely got over it, but it certainly made 1971 all the sweeter. And all the years of watching teams without success or beauty have certainly made me appreciate what we've had with AW.

Mee
March 30, 2005

American: We were just so positive, so focused on the game, so confident of our own ability, even Steve Bould looked like Beckenbauer - the performace reminded me of winning the PL at Man U - we refused to be second best.

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

While I'm glad we won the title in '89, I never really understood why Liverpool allowed themselves to be outfought that way, especially since Anfield was supposedly a fortress in those days, wasn't it?

Mee
March 30, 2005

Warming to my own theme about disappointment - never listen to Radio 5 live if you’re of a nervous disposition. The main problem with radio, which is rather obvious, is that you never know where the ball is in relation to your own goal. The commentary may lull you into thinking that the ball is becalmed in mid-field, then a split second later its in your net. I vaguely recall a CL game a couple of years ago - away leg which were winning 1-0, having scored quite early on, and the commentary was all about defence in depth, the old Arsenal habits, wonderful marking, game locked up and so on - then next moment the opposition scored with virtually the last kick of the match. That’s disappointment when you’ve spent 80 minutes thinking what the group table will look like and then having to re-read the script again. Anybody remember that game?

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

I have 3 greatest Arsenal moments, none at THOF, & was not actually there for any of them. The first was the win at WHL to bring us the 1971 title - I couldn't be there & only heard it on the radio (& come to think of it now, I can't even be sure I got the whole match or just the result; I remember listening intently but mainly remember talking about it straight after). The next was the unbelievable Thomas goal & again on the radio; like Mee, I was so proud of the team trying to win & not giving up but never thought that we would actually do it. The third was the Dennis goal at Newcastle & I still see it clearly in my mind - but I wasn't there, & didn't see it it live but only on MOTD later.

Mee
March 30, 2005

Somebody posted recently about their greatest Arsenal moment, citing Michael Thomas’s goal at Anfield. While that was a special moment within the 90 minutes, I felt that the whole game was special in the sense that straightfrom the kick-off it was obvious that the team were ‘up for it’. The tension and expectation had been building for days, but taking an ultra-realistic stance, I had psyched myself out of any other result than a glorious narrow defeat, or at best a draw. Even at 1-0, I never allowed myself to think we would score again, I was happy and proud of what had already been achieved. Had the score stayed like that and the title gone to Liverpool, my disappointment would not have been that great, because I’d put in the required mental rehearsal. Contrast this with a game like WBA at home this season, which conforms to expectations and is going to plan, you’re in the comfort zone, the pipe and slippers are out (listening to Radio 5) you start calculating where another 3 points will take us in the table, Spurs are losing, United are drawing everything is going fine . . . (goal at Highbury, commentary from John Murray . . . Earnshaw, would you believe it, the Arsenal defence was asleep there . . . ) That’s the nature of real disappointment, when you hadn’t even contemplated anything other than a win. I’ve tried to get some perspective on it, illness, job loss, house burning down, but nothing works, you watch MOTD in the hope that Earnshaw will miss this time or one of our near misses goes in . . . .

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to Kanoute at the Lane. **** Excerpt from an article on footie news: Tottenham striker Fredi Kanoute returned to London safe and well yesterday after Mali fans had threatened to kill him when their pitch invasion ended a World Cup qualifier against Togo in Bamako. Mali, for whom Kanoute plays, were a goal up until the 83rd minute when Togo scored two quick goals that looked certain to win the match for them. However, some of the 70,000 crowd then rioted and stormed on to the pitch demanding: "Give us Frederic Kanoute and Mamadou Bayoko. We are going to kill them." Kanoute, however, is safe and well, and back at his London home and is expected back in training today.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

Eskimo - You really think you have no stories? You don't often make longer posts, but when you do I find them very interesting. Well written too. The stuff on the reserves is stuff I don't come across anywhere else.

AmericanGooner
ChelseaFans@PetitionUEFA
March 30, 2005

My understanding is that this is a legitmate petition by the Chelsea supporters to UEFA for leniency. Its a slighly long read than one of my posts (slightly..haha). Its pathetic if its a real petition. http://www.petitiononline.com/cfwwuefa/petition.html

Bernard
March 30, 2005

Nico, in case you've forgotten I promise you that Caton was far better than Hill, who I put in my worst ever team yesterday, albeit at right back. In fact Caton wasn't that bad a player in my view apart from having a hopeless lack of pace; he wasn't that much quicker than Cygan. Unfortunately he died a few years ago, so went at a very young age. It's strange but I've never read anywhere of what he died of. Daz, I've not seen any of the three No Angels so far, but just looked at the writers names of the second, third and fourth (next week's) episodes, and wondered which you thought was the best so far. The one shown last Tuesday, by any chance?

Nico
March 30, 2005

Hey, Daz, I'm assuming you want to remain anonymous, otherwise there's a whole lot of good things to say about you here. And even if there wasn't so much to say, you're still someone, to me anyway.

Eskimo
March 30, 2005

Aw crap!

Nico
March 30, 2005

Eskimo, you were born the day after a 3-1 away defeat to West Ham. Our line-up: Jennings, Anderson, Sansom, Talbot, O'Leary, Hill, Robson, Rix, Allinson (scorer), Davis, Nicholas. You were christened on November 2nd with a 4-2 thrashing at the hands of Manchester United well before the drunken jock became a twinkle in Cannon Balls' eye. Line-up for that ignominious event was changed from the Hammers defeat with Lukic replacing Jennings, Caton replacing Hill (gawd preserve us) and Robson out for Woodcock. A certain Tony Adams came on as sub for Rix. We managed to finish the season 7th with Everton as champs.

Daz
March 30, 2005

I could have been someone, well so could anyone...

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

Regarding Becks, Its only a guess but I'd say Arsenal are more popular in Asia than Real Madrid. RM is more popular in south America but they have never really generated a lot of money to Man Yoo or Real Madrid in kit sales. I'd say Arsenal are more popular than Real Madrid in the states (excluding latinos). Up to 7 PL games are shown on cable here. You have to visit the pub for la Liga games for the most part or pay for an extra package on cable television. My belabored point is that we could stand to make a fair amount of money off Beckham shirts. I'm not advocating that we buy him. I'd rahter have SWP but I think if he came to us, we'd make money and he would as well. **** mcquilkie, no worries. To make your mind less unsettled, I guarantee that if football does get bigger here, the potential money from the American market will probably increase that by 1 possibly. FIFA, like many organizations, have money as their motivation. The '94 WC here was supposed to ignite a footie fervor and with it a piece of the multi-billion dollar sports industry here (TV rights, kit sales, etc.). I want us to do well, but I know how we do things. Changes to the game will be motivated by profit. Time outs for adverts and the lot.

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

Exiled, my email was sent. Mine is soi_eight@yahoo.com in case it didn't go through. ***** Nico, great recap of the dying years of GG. I still remember what I was told when I told my Brit friends I am supporting Arsenal "bloody boring Arsenal?! Find another club mate" **** Dormouse, I think Reyes is on at 40k/wk. I seem to recall the papers saying that were his wages. **** I definitely see Fabregas and Senderos getting an increase. I recall Kolo getting an increase last season. Well earned after his stellar first year at CB. It would be a nice gesture to Fabregas especially. Senderos should become a solid player for us, but Fabregas smacks of world class potential. Lets make it hard for anyone to turn his head.

AmericanGooner
March 30, 2005

I'll echo Eskimo's sentiments and say I enjoy the stories. *** CB, that Rep. of Ireland joke was too much. I may have to 'borrow' it and change it to one of the countries we play in our region. **** What were the circumstances of RvP's sending off? Some are more understandable than others.

Eskimo
March 30, 2005

Goonerguru - I'm enjoying it too although I haven't posted anything. I can't talk about old games 'cos my Highbury experience only started about 16 months ago. And I can't talk about ex-Gunners 'cos my memory's so poor that I can't even remember what Overmars looks like! Enjoying it though, but I must admit, I have been overcome with jealousy for the most part. You all have so many stories and I have none! Also, was it you who said you were born on a day Arsenal won? Can you check my birthdate: 28/10/84 please, I can't find the info. Ta.

Nico
March 30, 2005

goonerguru, it's been said many times, but I'll say it again, this has to be one of the best sites in the world of its type and I can't speak too highly of it. Er, it's also mildly - well actually quite fiercely - addictive. Surely in a good sense, though. Er, well, actually the wife tends to disagree with that. Camaraderie is tops. Bonding with Gooners round the Globe is uncannily strong. Logging on, reading and posting can even look like work if you move the entrance door of your room round behind your pc so whoever comes in can't see what's on your screen. Alternatively you can click on a work screen just as your door creaks open. Great recreation, fits in brilliantly with my couch potato, lifestyle. From pc to tv and back again then off to the fridge then back to teletext then on to the pc again then back to the beer crate. Fantastic force for the good. I'll bet Stevie G never thought it would have such an impact, but then again he was probably the type to throw parties for 50, expecting 100, with 1000 more arriving at the door and not being turned away. 'Pub at work' is a great description, the difference being that I can't see people's reactions to the rubbish I post - probably just as well, come to think of it - and I can't nut the odd E*G from time to time when I feel like it. But then again he can't nut me, so it's safe as houses as well! Then there's all that anonymity with the various handles, so maybe cyber-pub is more apt. But it's a brilliant creation and like all great creations it has a life all of its own, outliving its founder and creator who would never have it any different. Pure genius, like the Club it was set up to honour.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Nico it has been a very enjoyable few days on this site,who said International games week was boring?,interesting topics,jokes,and hardly a hint of bad language,the Gleibermaster would be very proud.

Nico
March 30, 2005

goonerguru, not only are they great gags, but there's more than a hint that they've been made up by Jews for Jews. The self-effacing nature of the jokes is very appealing. Keep them rolling in, Old Man. Top stuff.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

OMOH,you crack me up,all your jokes have a bit of a Jewish flavour to them,do you do stand up comic work at Jewish working mens clubs?

old man of hoy
March 30, 2005

See that the press have as usual got it all wrong. They claim Freddie is to give up international football to concentrate on Arsenal, but now our Swedish hero says that is not the case. How can such misunderstandings happen? The following tale shows it can happen to the most exalted. About a century or two ago, the Pope decided that all the Jews had to leave the Vatican. Naturally there was a big uproar from the Jewish community. So the Pope made a deal. He would have a religious debate with a member of the Jewish community. If the Jew won, the Jews could stay. If the Pope won, the Jews would leave. The Jews realized that they had no choice. So they picked a middle aged man named Moishe to represent them. Moishe asked for one addition to the debate. To make it more interesting, neither side would be allowed to talk. The pope agreed. The day of the great debate came. Moishe and the Pope sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Moishe looked back at him and raised one finger. The Pope waved his fingers in a circle around his head. Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat. The Pope pulled out a wafer and a glass of wine. Moishe pulled out an apple. The Pope stood up and said, "I give up. This man is too good. The Jews can stay." An hour later, the cardinals were all around the Pope asking him what happened. The Pope said: "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there was still one God common to both our religions. Then I waved my finger around me to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground and showing that God was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and the wafer to show that God absolves us from our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?" Meanwhile, the Jewish community had crowded around Moishe. "What happened?" they asked. "Well," said Moishe, "First he said to me that the Jews had three days to get out of here. I told him that not one of us was leaving. Then he told me that this whole city would be cleared of Jews. I let him know that we were staying right here." "And then?" asked a woman. "I don't know," said Moishe. "He took out his lunch and I took out mine."

clock end clive
March 30, 2005

I can't imagine Arsene agreeing to bringing a player in purely for revenue generation, especially after the experience with Inamoto, who was very anonymous on and off the field. That one may have been the Board convincing Le Boss to take a gamble on a man for economic gain, something he is unlikely to do again. So really as far as Beckham is concerned it comes down to what he can bring to us that we do not already have. At the point he left United he would have been a marvellous acquisition because he was at the top of his game, full of energy and a fine flank player. That was the time to get him. Now he seems to have lost some of his energy, and wants to be the playmaker, the centrocampista, with others doing the running for him. He is not as good as Freddie or Bob down the flanks, nor is he likely to replace Paddy, Gilberto or our young lions in central midfield. I can't see a place for him in our side. I wouldn't be suprised to see him back at United.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Dormouse of course you are right,what I didn't say was that each band would have an upper and lower limit,but a player would have to show a significant amount of skill to get into level 1 and then it would be up to that player to show his worth(or his agent) but in Hoytes case I doubt if he will ever get into that band,having said that I should imagine that there isn't much difference between the bottom limit of the top band and the top limit of the 2nd band the problem would be getting into it in the first place.

Bernard
March 30, 2005

Yes Nico, you're right about that Davis goal coming in the 5-0 against Villa in 1991. If I remember John Major was a guest visitor for that came, though he's a Chelsea fan himself, and said how impressed he was with us.

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

Beckhams image like Owens is most marketable in Asia and it is his England one not RM that is the main source of his popularity. England being like we saw at the last world cup hugely popular there. This is why Beckham needs to keep playing for England. A move to Arsenal would not effect him that much. Money wise he could even be better off if keeping more of his image rights like he had at United, there is no sign yet on the merchandise front of his bubble having burst yet.

Nico
March 30, 2005

goonerguru, I reckon that was a very good guess by dormouse if only through assiduous reading between the lines and a good feel for things. The only thing he got wrong was Cygan - he's in Band 7 out of 6!

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

goonerguru - partly it depends on the definition of bands. I think you'd agree that someone like Hoyte could go through a fair number of substantial steps in his wages before getting to the Henry heights. And there are also the levels well below the 1st team squad.

Daz
March 30, 2005

Mee, have to admit the Ipswich game is a blur which is odd 'cos I'd normally remember a Wrighty hatrick especially in that horrible season. On a non-Arsenal note I can strongly reccommend the new Kirsty McColl anthology which I've just bought - containing as it does the brilliant 'They don't know about us'. Great tribute to a massive talent and a life stupidly wasted by some stupid E*G showing off in a power boat.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

CB - I accept it's not all shirts, but the point is that Beckham @ RM is probably more marketable than Beckham @ Arsenal; & Beckham on the bench is not very marketable at all. It would be interesting to know how Beckham's image income has changed because of his transfer. The RM story is that Beckham comes free; Beckham's story might be that his income has increased because RM is more marketable than manure even after handing a % to RM.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Dormouse,so you think there could be more than 3 bands and of course you could be right,from my experience when I was working,the more bands you had the more trouble it gave you has a manager,the less you had was much more manageable.3 sounds about right to me the argument being that the top band is only for the most skillfull top of their profession workers or players in this case,the middle band being for very skillfull players but don't contribute has much as the top band and the lower band being for players that are breaking into the side or don't contribute as much as the layer above them.I would guess there are other layers for the younger players depending on age,mind you I wouldn't want to be doing their appraisals and of course there may come a time when there is nobody in the top band.

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

Dormouse,only a small proportion of Beckhams image rights come from Shirts, we have a growing WW sales of those now ourselves,the majority of his image right income is endorsements of products like sun-glasses, after-shaves, etc, on which his photograph is used on advertisments in magazines or on hoardings all over Asia, and other places. Same with Owen. Perez got Beckham to agree to pay a percentage of his image right money to RM and that is why he is reluctant to let him go, even though the club is not doing well on the field, the money is still rolling in off it!.

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

The Republic of Ireland team are sitting in the dressing room before last weekends game against Israel. The Managers been told that Robbie Keanes been out on the sauce the night before. So he goes up to him and says, i can't play youse Robbie if your not clear in the head. I am alright boss replies Robbie, ask me a question and i will prove it. Kerr thinks hard, alright then Robbie, what does 2 and 2 mak then. 4 says Robbie. Give him another chance boss cries Damien Duff.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

goonerguru - I forgot Cygan. He'd probably be in Band 4 or possibly even 5.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

Beckham may come for free to RM, but that depends on their shirt & general marketing ability - I'm not sure that we can sell as many of his shirts etc as they do. Also we would have to pay the same price they do - which is to have him in the team week after week. I don't think we'd want to promise that given his age and current form, but shirt sales etc would go down if we didn't & we'd then be paying him very good money to sit on the sidelines.

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

goonerguru - I think there will be more than 3 bands and am certain that Reyes is not in the top band. Band 1 would include Henry, Vieira & probably Campbell (though I would think he gets less than the 1st 2 now). Band 2 would include Pires, Bergkamp, & possibly Ljunberg, Gilberto, Reyes. Cole would have been made an offer to put him in this band. Reyes may get less than we expect, being bought as a young player for a high transfer value (Seville having already got him to sign up to a fairly lengthy contract at presumably lower than PL money, I suspect) & may only be in Band 3. Band 3 would include Lauren, Lehmann, & possibly Toure, RvP, Edu. Band 4 would include Fabregas, Senderos, Clichy, Flamini (possibly a Band 3). Band 5 would include Bentley, Owusu, Almunia, Taylor, Hoyte, Eboue. Which band they are actually in will depend on when they signed their last contract and whether they have got more or less valuable since then. There is a very good case for Henry being put in a band on his own, though we'd probably lose Paddy if he were not put there too.

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

Nico,according to the report Posh is enrolling the kids at school in London for next term, from what i understand Beckhams image rights pay for his £4m+ a year wages so he actually comes for free according to Perez at RM. AW's often stated that he would like to sign him, but then he says that about a lot of players. Spuds would let him keep all of his image rights and pay him!,in a doomed attempt to bring back those long ago glory days. But with him fighting now to keep his England place against Dyer would he want to go to a club that do not play in the CL and have a low international profile - Tottenham who?. He does not need the money but to look succesful and contemporary on the field of play. No chance of that down at,'The Lane That Time Forgot', or at the Pimps either. I would sooner have Dyer who has his best days to come while Beckhams are surely past?. Unless he managers to keep his England job and they win the World Cup. Stranger things have happened..

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

Nico,Do you think there are 3 levels of pay structure at Highbury,Level 1 Henry,Reyes,Vieira and maybe Campbell,Level 2 Pires,Gilberto,Freddie,lauren,DB? and Ash,then Level 3 Toure,Cygan,Edu,Lehmann,Cesc,Sederos and Clichy is that about right.

North Bank Mural
March 30, 2005

Many thanks Nico, will get back to you if I need to. Guru, I don't really remember obvious chances for Woodcock but it wouldn't be a surprise, it was one of those freak moments, he could do no worng. Also I had been in the pub so my memory is hazy! I would take Beckham as a squad player, don't know about the press following or his attention seeking wife though. Don't think we would pay the sort of wages he expects though.

East End Gooner
March 30, 2005

Cheers goonerguru/Nico - nice to have some help filling the gaps. Now maybe you can help tell me why they are there?! Strange I should forget the brilliant McDermott. He was the cousin of one of my schoolmates and did some (very brief) coaching for the five-a-side team we put together for the Metropolitan Police tournament. Its also hard to believe the Davis overhead was in 91. It was brilliant.

clock end clive
March 30, 2005

EEG i will be going to semi even though it is a nightmare doing so. I tell you why - having been enetertained with all the tales of Arsenal past over the last few days, so many references were made to the time when we never won very much. That could happen again - unlikely i know but it could. So I will never take things for granted and if the boys can show enough talent to get to Cardiff then i am going with them. Dave B - about Campbell's injury - in my view its to do with his posterior - he just can't be arsed these days - too busy taking acting lessons to focus on the job in hand. I can't see him displacing Terry in the England team and my bet is that he will not make the final World Cup squad in 2006. Carragher is more reliable.

Nico
March 30, 2005

Cannon Balls, the facts are more likely to be that Spurs want him but he doesn't want to go there, he wants to go to Arsenal...but do Arsenal want him? It's not up to him, it's up to Arsenal. If we go for him, he'll come running but I suspect he'll have to drop his pay demands to around the Pires level (which reading between the lines sounds like level 2 which is plenty good enough).

Xav T
March 30, 2005

Just back from a two week trip to Asia so I am really sad to hear of Steve's passing away. I am going through what you guys must have gone through in the last two weeks, and I hope that all the messages posted on this site in his memory will be of some comfort to his family. Steve has touched many lives, and mine was definitely one of them. Thanks Steve, my thoughts and condolences go to your family.

Nico
March 30, 2005

EEG, that overhead kick was a sublime goal scored by Paul Davis in a 5-0 thumping of Villa on April 3rd 1991 as we moved inexorably closer to the title. Fantastic night.

Cannon Balls
March 30, 2005

I heard on the radio that a new TV Channel is starting in England that will show the worst movies ever made. I thought that's what BBC1 did?. David Beckham is also reported to be facing a dilemma come the summer.He according to the story must make an agonizing choice,should he move from Real Madrid to Arsenal or Spuds.What do you think Posh ?. Romeo would look nice in a Red and White football shirt..

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

EEG,went to that Villa game on a coach full of Villa supporters just me and my 13 year old son against the world going to Villa,on the way home the 13 year old give um some right stick,Ah Bless.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

EEG,it was that never to be forgotten player Brian McDermott.

Bernard
March 30, 2005

EEG, yes I am, went along to the ground to get my ticket last Thursday. The only good thing about losing is that we're unlikely to ever play at the Millenium again (though I could tolerate a Champions League final there). Nice enough ground, but such a pain in the E*G to get to. Mind you, if we win against Blackburn at least we'll only have at most one more game there, or two if we win the cup (short of Europian finals there).

East End Gooner
March 30, 2005

Goonerguru - I was there but dont really remember if Woodcock had other chances. I do remember two Gooners round us (in the top tier of their then new stand) being thrown out by the over-zealous West Midlands finest for celebrating the fourth. Who scored the other goal? My confused memory wants to tell me it was a brilliant Davis over-head kick but I am sure I am merging games and that was a season or so after. I used to go to all the Villa away games as my Dad was from Birmingham. In fact, my old man said be a Villa fan - I said "no thanks they are ****ing pony". As it happens he is now pretty much an Arsenal fan having given up fighting it. He can be a miserable one though being as he is free from the blindness that from time to time benefits the positivistas like Harlow.

goonerguru
March 30, 2005

North Bank,can you remember if Woodcock could have had 7 that day or was I dreaming.Nico,it's about the time of the year for these rumours to start,I should imagine on the continent we are seen as a team that has had a bad season and some of out star players could be tempted away,if we were to sell Henry(god forbid) I think there would be more bidders than Barca or Chelsea any team with any sort of ambition would want him in their side,if this story has come from Barca I think they are P*****g in the wind.Thankfully Henry has nailed his colours to the mast on more than one occasion and declared again recently he wants to stay at Arsenal for life if that is so will he become a future Arsenal manager?

East End Gooner
March 30, 2005

Yes I'm sure Nico! How many people are actually going to the semi? I think I probably will although travel is a pain and I have always avoided what I am told is the hell of the return journey by staying in Cardiff on our final days but cant really justify it for the semi. I wouldn't bother but I am going to be in the States until the Friday night of cup final week (flights back from LA arrive mid-morning Saturday) so although I have a hotel booked in Cardiff it looks like I will miss the final should we get there.

Nico
March 30, 2005

North Bank Mural, no problem. Just to be clear, what I have is semi vouchers from season ticket books filled in and at the ready, but not used, so no tickets as yet. If you need any of these vouchers, let me know and I can send them to you. Checking the official site, there is very limited availability of the cheaper seats at the Millennium. I have some vouchers also belonging to a friend. No charge of course. EEG, thanks for completing that quaint little ditty, I'd quite forgotten it myself -:)

Wengerknows
March 30, 2005

So, a few weeks ago, I find myself on the rooftop of the Hotel Dorian Inn in Athens, at an impromptu midnight party with a bunch of Sampdoria supporters and few Yanks drinking "bimbos" and among other things singing que sera sera. They sang Italian, I sang English and we communicated in broken English. A goodnight was had by all especially as I didn't bring up when Seaman saved all those penalties against them.

East End Gooner
March 30, 2005

I think the words you were looking for Nico are "I said **** off, b*****ks, you're a ****."

East End Gooner
March 30, 2005

"And when - I asked her why she wore that ribbon - she said it's for the Arsenal and we're off to Wemb[er]ly." Not a great one. In fact most of our songs were and are a bit ****. I quite liked "away in a manger" for no particular reason other than I quite like the bastardisation of sentimental carols. And Que Sera - "wash your mouth my son...go get your father's gun...". Again a nice take on a Doris bleeding Day song.

El Presidente
March 30, 2005

I would concur with the names mentioned by others as being 'Goonertrash' but it has always appeared to me that no matter how successful the team, the Highbury faithful has always had to have a boo-boy. I reckon you could go season by season back to 1970 when I saw my first game (v Beveren Waas 4-0, hooked ever since)and pick at least one player who has been the focus of the crowd's derision. Worst culprits are East Stand Lower-hate getting tickets there-what a bunch of moaners!!It seems that although Highbury really is the real Theatre of Dreams we always need a pantomime baddie to hiss at. Don't get me wrong-I've jeered and winced at a few meself; Willie Young, Mancini, Caesar the most obvious. Parlour in his last season in my opinion was a nightmare. So starting with Cygan and all the way back to Sammals I reckon we could easily find one per season.

North Bank Mural
March 30, 2005

Guru; I was at Villa Park that day and Tony Woodcock took Villa on his own, amazing. If I remember rightly it was around New Year. I went with a Villa mate who took me into the Aston Tavern via the back door where a chant of "S*$t on the Cockneys" was frequently being aired, I quickly clipped my accent and whispered my order at the bar!! **Nico I may get back to you re tickets for semi, I am watching the box office this week.

Nico
March 30, 2005

Andy, know it well but my fav (on away days especially) was 'Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner...'. I also always used to enjoy 'you are my Arsenal, my only Arsenal, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know just how much I love you, until they take my Arsenal away'. To end, however, on a less sentimental note, the piece de resistance has to be 'my old man said be a tottenham fan, I said....', er, what did I say? Maybe Daz can fill us in!

Andy Green
March 30, 2005

What about Bertie Bertie Bertie Mee to the Small Faces'Sha La La Lee.A mate of mine,Dennis Woolgar used to sing an AFC song that had the line..She wore a Yellow Ribbon in the Merry Month of May.Anyone know it?

Dormouse
March 30, 2005

I can't see Henry being unsettled. He knows that he could go to virtually any club he chose if he wanted to, so a partisan paper hinting that he would move for much less than his true worth won't affect him. Do agree that we should extend his contract though & up his wages, if they are not at a reasonable level. I'd like to see the same for Fabregas & Senderos, too. The one thing I would say about the Cole situation from the club's point of view is that he should have been given higher wages for an extended contract a few years ago. I think younger players doing well should be offered a 1 or 2 year extension (probably with higher wages) every 1 or 2 years; partly to reward them, partly to keep them. Would probably increase the wage bill though.

El Presidente
March 30, 2005

Robin Van Persie missing for Holland U-21 tonight. Suspended after getting sent off on Friday. Well at least he's learnt his lesson then.

DaveB
March 30, 2005

What exactly is Sol Campbell's injury and is there any projected date for his return?

Roast Beef
March 30, 2005

Always used to get a chuckle out of the 'arry Roberts chant as that was my nickname. First song I remember though was standing in the schoolboys listening to "Joe baker - Joe baker riding through the glen" (to the tune of robin hood)!! I used to be dead center of the north bank about halfway up. Dave gilmour used to stand just in front of me, Arfur mullard sometimes too.

Wengerknows
March 30, 2005

Mee. No it wasn't me but I seem to remember the fellow. To be honest the chanting was piss poor I think due to our nerves at the start but it improved considerably towards the end of the game when the result was no longer in doubt. The first half was full of 'the referee's a w****r'. Memories fade but I think the guy you mentioned was with this girl who kept leaving her seat every so often. A relegation dogfight with Palace should be enough to alarm anyone.

Cannon Balls
March 29, 2005

Noosa Gooner, one ditty i remember being sung on the North Bank was about MacDonald when he was with Newcastle: "Old MacDonald had a farm and on that farm he had W**k with a W**k W**k here and a W**K there.... We sang his praises though when he scored that hat-trick against his old club on his debut for us at Highbury. A fickle lot football supprters!.

NoosaGooner
March 29, 2005

Andy Green - you're spot on with "Harry Roberts" and "Pat Rice Tasty Goal" was at least clearly superior to "Peter, Peter Simpson Ooh Ooh." But what was behind our preoccupation with continually asking various sets of supporters - "Can you hear us on the box"? Finally, how can any serious reminiscing have taken place over the last few days with apparently no reference to "burgers" and "hot dogs" floating in tepid water in the trollies of what appeared to be homeless people as the only source of sustenance close to the ground? Botulism? No chance.

Mee
March 29, 2005

Apologies Nico - the last post ascribed to you was from Mee. I put you name in the wrong box - it was for your attention.

Mee
March 29, 2005

Wengerknows: I was in the north Bank, which was fairly new at that time, behind the goal as well. There was a bloke near me kept standing up trying to get some chanting going - but to no avail. was it you?

Nico:
March 29, 2005

just the news or rumour that we wanted to hear! There are players like DB10 and PV4 who would be difficult to replace and then there is Henry - who is quite simply irreplaceable. Chelsea, as you point out would raise the fee to unprecedented levels, but even if he were to stay, this kind of rumour de-stabilises the player and affects his performance - look at PV this season after the Real M debacle. Let’s hope that Henry likes being the main man and not part of a trio with E‘to and Ronaldinho.

Wengerknows
March 29, 2005

Was in the Northbank right behind the goal for the 4-1 win over Ipswich. Seem to remember WWW got all 3 in a short space of time after the break. Ipswich's Marshall was very quick and missed a sitter or two in the first half. Reminds me again of how bad things had gotten with the pre-match tension at Highbury as to whether we could avoid an end of season relegation dogfight. Apparently Keown had had a little chat with each one of his teammates before the game about where their hearts were. We had lost 3-0 or 3-1 at the mighty QPR the previous Saturday and collected our customary drubbing from Liverpool in midweek. Houston, Helder, Kiwomya, Hartson, Morrow, Selley etc. Thank the Gooner Gods for Arsene E*G Wenger. PTBAG.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

goonerguru - read your link on Henry & Barca. They (the Catalan paper) think he'd be available for less than £20m & cost less than £60k a week. Says it all really.

Nico
March 29, 2005

For 25-30m Euros, they can forget it, goonerguru. If the Club were stupid enough to show signs of putting him in play, chelscum would push the value up three fold, you can be sure of that. This is yet another glaring example of mischief making from Spain. They all talk as if the Club has no say in the matter. And for this reason alone it should not be ignored, the best way to address it being to get Henry signed up RIGHT NOW to another long term deal. Strike while the iron is hot, when he is expressing interest in the Club doing just that. If the Club loses a player like this, or gets itself into a scrape through dithering, we don't deserve to fill AG.

Cannon Balls
March 29, 2005

There is one way of not having to find a replacement for DB - by not trying to do so. To begin with it's unlikely that we will find another player who can fill that role which primarily is to assist Henry these days anyway. It's always a mistake to attempt to replicate anything in football that came about by chance, and new options are needed in the future if we are to compete at the top level. RVP should given the nod over Reyes so to give him a chance to show what he can do in what's left of this season, he gave a glimpse against 'Old Sparkies' physical Blackburn side that he can play up front and score goals, and unlike Reyes is committed to the cause. The Canaries at home on Saturday can be another opportunity to give him a start alongside Henry who is expected to play for France tomorrow night and for us against Norwich on Saturday, if coming through the International with no problems. Wenger through circumstances beyond his control, and perhaps a little reluctantly this season has been forced to use young players like Senderos and Fabregas more than he would have, and they have benefited from it. Senderos in my view after his recent performances for us and the Swiss is now the first choice to partner Sol Cambell when he returns. Time now to let RVP off the leash to let him settle in and show us that he can do it next season.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Henry being linked to Barca...http://www.wldcup.com/news/2005Mar/20050329_29459_world_soccer.html

Andy Green
March 29, 2005

NoosaGooner how about "I'll walk a million miles for one of your goals,Jon Sammels or Bertie Mee said to Bill Shankly have you heard of the North Bank Highbury and the Shank said Yes,they're the loudest and the best and they all support the Arsenal.Classics!Other vaguely remembered ditties from that era werethe North Bank singing Harry Roberts is our friend whenever there was police activity."Pat Rice tasty goal was a regular chant after Pat scored the winner away @ Readingin the Cup and then described it thus on a MOTD interview.

NoosaGooner
March 29, 2005

Jon Sammels was a hero of mine when I was a boy - good technical player, played mostly short balls (?) but could also hit it long, very industrious, put his foot in, only ever scored goals over 30 yards and got quite a few of them. I was on the North Bank vs Anderlecht and his screamer that night is etched in my memory. I also seem to recall that his wife was a bit tasty. On another nostalgia note, does anybody recall when Bobby Gould was banging them in for us and how his song was "Viva Bobby Gould" based on the Equals hit "Viva Bobby Joe"? Anybody recall any others from the same era?

Nico
March 29, 2005

My impression is that our semi with Blackburn will be half empty.....our half, that is, but if I'm wrong, and people are finding it hard to get tickets, please let me know (with your email address).

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Azinoz, I remember the rumours why Tottenham wanted Robertson out. I once heard which of his team-mates wife it was, but can't remember; can you? The name that keeps slipping into my mind is Alan Mullery though, but I couldn't swear to it.

Exiled In Newcastle
March 29, 2005

American - can you email me. GoonerUpNorth@aol.com

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Nico, you're right, Kiwomya is certainly very forgetable. I really can't recall whether Rioch got rid, or Wenger. To be honest, I became impressed with Wenger very quickly because even by the time he arrived, we really had a lot of dead wood left over from the final few years of Graham, and he got rid of them pretty damn quickly. Alan, think you're being unfair on Henry. If you want a very blatant example of a game he's turned round that wasn't going our way, think of Liverpool at home last season.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Exiled I think you are right about Hartson,I think Pennant was as well.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Not being old enough to remember the 7 goals that Ted Drake scored at Villa Park,I was however at Villa Park when Woodcock scored 5 in a 6-2 win and if memory serves me correct he was quite close to equalling Drakes record,I am sure he hit the woodwork with the GK beat and also had a one on one with the goalkeeper that he saved,anyone there than can confirm this.

Exiled In Newcastle
March 29, 2005

Wasn't Hartson the most expensive teenage transfer ever when we signed him?

Mee
March 29, 2005

Daz: Was that season when we beat Ipswich 4-1 at home and Ian Wright scored a hat-trick, Merson got the other at the clock end? I remember Wright scoring immediately after half-time when I was still making my way back from the half-time Bovril (one for the oldsters)

Mee
March 29, 2005

. . seem like good natured applause - sorry

Mee
March 29, 2005

LTGooner: I seem to remember the board being under pressure from the fans to make some signings and Kiwomya and Hartson were two that were available. Kiwomya had been a failure at Ipswich, but there was a feeling that Hartson could develop into a good player. Kiwomya was a sort of Malcolm Allison buy - someone who looked brilliant against lesser opposition and on the training ground and during the pre-match kick-in, but was actually out of his depth once the game had started. He bought a player called Barry Silkman from the lower leagues when he was at Man City and the barracking this player got from the City crowd would make the vitriol aimed at ‘Sammo’ seem look good natured applause.

Daz
March 29, 2005

That was Graham's "relegation-looming" season. I remember we went to Palace really needing three points and think that Kiwomya scored in that game. Clock End Ginge might remember that game because he insisted on noisily celebrating our goals (we were in with the Palace fans) and I thought I might have to bail us out with my legendary fighting skills. Oh Thornton Heath. Is full of...

Cannon Balls
March 29, 2005

Sammels played in the most important game for the club of the modern era,the Fairs Cup Final 1970 at Highbury. His goal a bender around the wall helped to set up a vital win and the club to go on to the success that we have enjoyed over the past decades, starting that nightat Highbury which was the catalyst for it. One of the hardest hit goals i can recall by an Arsenal playeraT Highbury was by Alan Sunderland, a volley into the North Bank end goal it was a night match against i believe Wednsday in a first division game, struck from outside the box it flew in like an E xocet missile. His one against United in the Cup Final though was my favourite of his and like the Mickey Thomas one at Anfield legendary.Henry is due one in a FA Final,could be this yearagainsta winner against United would be anther for the scrapbook of future memories.

Alan
March 29, 2005

Daz - Far be it from me to question the great one but I tell you what when he is having an off day and there has been plenty of them, normally at critical times as well, I don't see him running the field trying to turn it around do you? There is no one more spoilt than Henry when things are not going their way. We love him of course but a worker when things are not good he ain't.

Nico
March 29, 2005

Bernard, yes, I remember that match against Forest now. Was it in fact a day of three debuts, that of Stewart 'coneman' Houston as stand-in coach, Helder himself and Kiwomya, who in fact secured desperately needed points at the North Bank end? Kiwomya actually went on to score quite a few more that season, but I don't remember much more about him, nor how long he stayed with us. Was it not Rioch who finally got rid of him?

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

The names still keep flooding back,my memory of Helder he could run like the wind but he would very often forget to take the ball with him,here's another one that hasn't been mentioned yet,he didn't play many games either,and I didn't see him play but I have read that he was a very skillful player Siggi Johnson!

Daz
March 29, 2005

Helder was the lovechild of Perry Groves and Jesper Gronkjaer.

Mee
March 29, 2005

Bernard:- It’s a curious thing about Sammells. I remember seeing him in a match where he was having a fairly decent game, much better than those around him, even the usually reliable Simpson was having a bad match, but the moment Sammells misplaced his first pass, a small section of the crowd started to get on his back, it was quite restrained, polite even, - ‘Duff ball, Sammy’, and the like. I wasn’t aware of any mass booing, but my evidence is based on a couple of games only. I remember listening to Helder’s first game on the radio (perhaps it was a Peter Jones commentary) where they were saying that he looked an incredible prospect and was going to become a big name at Highbury. He was very comfortable on the ball though and often looked as if he was having a better game than was actually the case.

Long Time Gooner
March 29, 2005

Nico. Oh God I'd totally forgotten Chris Kiwomya. He's one of a number of players who when bought everyone says 'Why?'. Some purchases just look plain stupid at the time, e.g. Jimmy Carter or Collymore for Villa. What is that? Are we not privy to some great insight, or are football managers just silly at times? These tactics would not result in success at Championship Manager (or whatever it's called nowadays).

Daz
March 29, 2005

Dormouse: fair points with regard to performance although it is his attitude that pisses me off the most especially the homesick/weather stuff. If one of the players you're referring to is Henry, Alan, I would say you're way off the mark. We're lucky he's not MORE of a prima donna given his outrageous talent which - amazingly in the current world - is linked to loyalty to the club. Frankly, if Henry didn't like Reyes's idiot smile that would be enough for me to ship him straight back to Spain. I also think that Reyes' shocking performance against Bayern could be said to have cost us the possibility of a 2-0 which would have been well within our capability had all our attacking players been working properly. Yes he has talent but he's been a massive disappointment and he's now compounding that with his pathetic bleating to Madrid. Cole has done what Vieira did more or less but did it in a more blatant way. I'm prepared to wait this one out but I have far more weary resignation about it than the irritation caused by that muppet Reyes. But in a worst case scenario they can both E*G off.

Exiled In Newcastle
March 29, 2005

Excellent news. Some of you might remember that my brother lives 10 mins away from the Millenium stadium (quite handy!). Well he's next month. He's just walked from his new place to the ground and it took 564 steps (yes - he's that sad). Now if we can just stop Wembley being built...

Exiled In Newcastle
March 29, 2005

Hello mate - been down to Mancland to see the daughter for a couple of days. Haven't read everything yet but was quite shocked no one seems to have mentioned the real reason Terry Neill's team never won the league - Terry Neill! Nice bloke, terrible manager. Davo's hook - I seemed to be one of the few that saw it 'at the time', as it was well off the ball. I was under the impression that it was somehing about a family member that was said, rather than a racist remark. Beautiful jumping hook though.

old man of hoy
March 29, 2005

Andy G and others i well remember that wonder goal by Sammels and i believe it was further out than 30 yards - probably gilding it a bit here but i recall he hit it from just inside the half-way line on the West side and into the Clock End past Alex Stepney. What sticks in my mind is the ball seemed to get faster as it neared the goal and even from the lower North Bank where i was standing i swear you could hear it hit the net. Similar sound to a shot from Hasselbaink when he scored in the same goal for Leeds a few seasons back. Why was Sammels disliked by some? I put that down to nothing more than him being seen by some fans as a rather lightweight golden boy - he was a regular in the England Under 21's and a bit of a press favourite because he was skillful. Great things were predicted for him which never fully came to fruition. Perhaps his falling just short of the expectation brought him scorn rather than encouragement? He was a thinking footballer with a nice touch who would have found the less brutal Premiership an easier place to show his worth than the old Division One. Roast Beef i concur with your view of Henry as playmaker - he already is a supreme assister, and his remarkable ball control will never fail him so he could quite readily become the withdrawn hub of our future team when needed. The big problem will be finding another man with his speed and devastating precision up front. Did anybopdy else like the look of Israel's Ben Ayoun in the Irish match?

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Exiled where have you been we could have done with your knowledgeble self on here over this Easter weekend.

Exiled In Newcastle
March 29, 2005

Whilst I never saw Sammels play for Arsenal, I did see him a couple of times post-Arsenal and he always impressed me. From his biography he makes it clear the main reason he left was the booing. It seems that it was so bad that Bertie Mee dropped him (after the Cologne match in '71) partly because of the effect it was having. He was also a mad Gooner and seems incredibly genuine about it despite the book being written whilst he was leaving.

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Mee, I'd always assumed Sammels name was Jonathon, not John, hence the shortening to Jon, not John - like the other Jonathons that I've known.

Alan
March 29, 2005

Cannon Ball - Agreed, if UEFA buy his crap then it tells you something. Nothing like blame transference when it gets to hot in the chicken. Shows his lack of spine as well. **** Doormouse, Also agree with your comments. I am not sure I like what goes on behind the scenes at times, certain players are to big for their boots may be? He never seemed to be accepted properly for some reason. I suspect jealousy might be one reason but who knows. This guy has as much natural ability as anyone in the team and I mean anyone, he will be a big loss especially if he is leaving for the wrong reasons.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

CB - I appreciate what Moanio is saying now, but I don't think his early statements were 'Rijkaard was seen ..' but were 'I saw ..'. His current logic appears to be a) I have to trust my minions, b) they said they saw, c) that is the same as I saw, d) I said I saw because ... (that is simpler?, more convincing?) .. and means the same thing.

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Nico, I noticed earlier your comment that Graham bought Helder, which of course he did. But I don't think he ever played for Graham. I think Graham was sacked the morning of a day in which we played Nottingham Forest in the evening, and that game was Helder's debut. He actually looked really very, very good in that game, surely his best for the club. Sad when your debut is your best performance. The expression 'going downhill' springs to mind. Having said that, he did have a number of pretty good displays, including the game when Bergkamp scored his first goals for the club against Southampton.

Mee
March 29, 2005

Goonerguru/Bernard: Perhaps a clue to his unpopularity is in the spelling of his name as goonergur points out. ‘Jon’ would have been interpreted by some as a person slightly too concerned with his own image, particularly if he changed in from the standard John. I remember him being a very stylish player on the ball, never hurried, always in control. His immaculate hairstyle was never compromised by the heat of battle, he looked exactly the same at the end of a game as he did at the kick-off. A bit too slick for some fans I guess. As you pointed out he was a very classy player so victimisation on that count would be very unfair.

Azinoz
March 29, 2005

Jimmy Robertson actually scored a few goals for us certainly far more than the player we gave to Spurs in exchange for him did for them.David Jenkins was his name and a fee of 50K was agreed between the two clubs for a straight swap. The story was, Robertson was at it with one of the players wives and had to go. Jenkins was an absolute flop at WHL while Robertson was doing pretty well with us. I remember going to Turf Moor with a whole heap of my mates many of whom were and still are spurs supporters and Robbo scored the only goal of the match for us.I absolutely loved it and my spurs mates were gutted once again.

Cannon Balls
March 29, 2005

Dormouse,i have just read this mornings newspapers and the Moanhinho alibi is more or less what i predictided. But even more ludicrously so!. Moaninho says that he is: "Involved in something that he does not want to be involved in". An hint already of distancing himself from the affair. He goes on to say that two of his staff saw 2nd in command Steve Carke and Security Officer Les Miles witness Rijkaard enter ref Frisks dressing room at half time. And Moaninho then states: "i am not a perfect man but if one of my peope tell me this happened and then another i believe them or sack them." So it's all down to who the panel believe,but they may well ask themselves who stood to gain the most from causing the matter to get into the media prior to the Barca game at the Bridge?. Both Frisk and Rijkaard have denied that the incident happened and with Uefa observers and media people around the fact that the only ones to claim it did are Moaninho's minnions leaves me knowing who i choose to believe. The true test in this case is not who you think is telling the truth but who looks the most likely to be.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

I always liked Sammels, though he was never as good as I would have liked him to be. I thought he was as good/better than a lot of the other players we had in MF at the time. I suppose he lacked subtlety. The memories do make me grateful for AW, though.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Bernard I am not sure why Sammels was unpopular with the Highbury crowd,he was a very good player most of the times I saw him and as you say he had a wicked shot on him,I liked the guy as a player and a person he always seemed to conduct him self in the correct manner,his first name is Jon without the "h" and I liked that spelling,so my son was christened with the middle name Jon,mind you my sons first name is Neil after Terry.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

Daz - I understand that there is a case against Reyes, but do feel that you overstate it. He has provided a return on our investment (eg some form last season, form early this season, scoring against Chelski), though it has been less than we would have liked & less than his ability suggests he could do. He has worked hard in a lot of our matches, even when not playing well, which is more than some have doen. He has hardly been the only one of our experienced(?) players to play poorly this season and nor can he be blamed for us being knocked out of the CL. That was mainly down to a bad defence (Toure in particular) and Dennis (etc) was no more effective than Reyes at THOF. With regard to the overall return on our investment, that will depend mostly on his future form if we keep him and the transfer fee if we don't. If he is really keen to go, he will accept lower wages & we will get a higher fee because of that. Can't argue about his seeming wimpish, especially since OT & Aragones. Cole's behaviour has been worse than that of a pure mercenary - there was no need at all for him to have agreed to a meeting on that date & it certainly showed what was uppermost in his mind. I agree with Bernard about being more disappointed with Cole, who portrayed himself as a gooner, than Reyes who just moved abroad to another club when his club sold him; there were no indications that he was angling for a transfer to Arsenal or away from Seville. As has been pointed out before, he seems to have been somewhat excluded from goal celebrations which is hardly going to make him feel better or more loyal.

Azinoz
March 29, 2005

Thanks anyway Goonerguru, I suppose with my rapidly fading memory that crowd was in reality only 2000 but I must admit the Bryn Jones attendance is news to me. Does anyone remember a FA cup night match at Highbury against Bolton I think, and midway through the second half it was still nil all and a young John Radford who had played like crap and had the crowd been able to get at him he would have been murdered suddenly scored 3 goals in 8 minutes and was immediately crowned a hero, he never looked back after that. Always seem to remember him scoring consistently against the spuds as well

GunGun
March 29, 2005

Nico, thanks for reminding me. It is amazingly spot-on 30 years to the day (Arsenal-Stoke). We are apparently the same age as I too was 15 then. I have the match programme in front of me (10p). It has a picture of Charlie George, Ray Kennedy, George Armstrong, Storey and Kelly charging out of a defensive wall. Years went by before I could go to Highbury again.It was Easter 1979 (a 5-2 drubbing of Chelsea). I was in the North Bank that day and Chelscum tried to take it by attacking our lines from the right as you stand (stood). Of course they failed, but there was plenty of hassle and I do not know how they got in from Gillespie Road. My third match at Highbury was a signicant game. Supermacs first game for Arsenal. Versus Bristol City. We lost 1-0 and it was the opening day of the season I think. Ray Cashley was in goal for City and I remember the tremendous air-battles he and Malcolm Macdonald had in that game. Fond, fond memories

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Mee, yes Sammels was deeply unpopular with a section of the crowd. I'm not sure why, to be honest. It's a long time ago now, but I certainly don't remember him as a bad player and he had a ferocious shot; he got a terrific goal in the second leg of the Anderlecht final too. I've seen many, many worse players for the club than him, but don't think I've seen another player so unpopular with a fair number of the fans. I remember when we didn't go to the first team's away game, my Dad used to take me the the reserve game at Highbury that was also played at 3.00pm on Saturday. They used to announce the developments at the first team game, and I distinctly remember them announcing the first team had scored (can't remember if it was to take or extend a lead, equalising, or pulling a goal back) and there was the customary loud cheer (they used to get some decent crowds at these games). Then the announcer said the goal was scored by Jon Sammels and the groan on hearing that was almost as loud as the cheer when he just said we'd scored. Wierd! Whether it was the fans that forced him out, I can't really remember to be honest,as I don't recall him being a first team regular towards the end of his time at Arsenal. So he might have moved on for more regular first team football (think he went to Leceister), but maybe he wasn't a regular first choice at Arsenal because of the crowd's reaction to him; I really don't know. Having said that, the dislike of him wasn't universal by any means, but it was significant.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Azinoz,Sorry mate you have caught me out with the Mel Charles reserve game but if it was 20,000 then it wont be the record for a reserve game,Brynn Jones had 33,000 for his reserve game back in 1938,however the person to tell us will be Sir Exiled in Newcastle,I am only his apprentice in the facts and figures department.

Mee
March 29, 2005

Bernard - Whenever I’m asked about Sammells, I always give the same response that he was driven out by a section of the Highbury crowd. Can you elaborate please? I still don’t know the full story.

Nico
March 29, 2005

GunGun, Just noticed today is the 30th anniversary of your first ever live game - does this call for a celebration?

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Andy Green, the Sammels goal against Man Utd was legendary, clock end if memory serves. The Robertson goal (I only recall one) was at the North Bank end and if memory serves was a cup game. Daz, ok you probably didn't use the exact term 'pay him whatever he wants', though I think you said words to the effect that the offer to him should be exceedingly generous, and with that you'll get no argument from me. I also agree that Cole has contributed far more to the club in his time here than Reyes has; he's had far longer here for a start so be fair has had (and given himself) more opportunity to do so. I also understand you thinking Reyes actions have been worse than those of Cole, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that either. However, I do feel it's far more debateable whether issueing 'please buy me' statements to Real Madrid are worse, the same, or less bad than getting your agent (if that's what happened) to set up a meeting with Chelsea, or knowlingly turning up for that meeting if it was arranged by Chelsea (if that's what happened) a few days before an important (or in your view the most important for several years) game against Man Utd. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do admit that if anything I'm a little more disappointed in Cole than Reyes if those were the things that happened with his meeting, although that's probably because I expected more from him than Reyes - which I accept makes the comparison unbalanced.

Daz
March 29, 2005

Bernard: I never said 'pay him whatever he wants'. If he makes unreasonable demands or destabilises the team he must go. The big difference in my book is that Cole did not cost us a massive sum of money and he has given us high and consistent performances for some time. If he goes I will be sad but I will live with it. Reyes on the other hand came as part of a substantial transfer deal. We have not had a significant return from him and he has appealed publicly and humiliatingly to clubs to 'come and get him' and claimed among other things that he is homesick and doesn't like the weather in his defence. Unlike EEG's prediction for Cole, he manifestly did "cost us in Europe" by playing like a complete E*G in a critical game (maybe he felt a bit blue because it was overcast that day). So whatever Cole has done - and neither you or I can be sure about the detail just now - he has behaved like a hugely talented mercenary footballer (a la Petit, Overmars, Anelka etc) which is to be expected if not condoned. Reyes has behaved like a pathetic little crybaby and somebody who has no respect for themself, their profession or the club. So I feel considerably more anger towards him for the simple fact that he has not seen fit to give Arsenal or their fans any return on their investment.

mcquilkie
March 29, 2005

American, sorry if I came on a bit strong there with the ‘how the hell does Concacaf get three and a half spots at the World Cup finals?’ – I certainly don’t feel enmity towards you and your national team. I like seeing the USA do well, and I loved that win over Portugal – it’s just that given that Africa and Asia have 50 or 60 nations and get four or five spots, and South America has provided the World Cup winner three times in the last 20 years and gets four and a half spots, I don’t see that Concacaf deserves three and a half places for the occasional last-16 or quarter-final appearance. Obviously the American market is a key one for FIFA and they tip the scales slightly towards you guys as a result. That’s understandable, but from an Australian perspective, it’s a bit frustrating, what with the Aussies regularly being shafted by FIFA. Sorry for boring non-Concacaf/Oceanians with all that. Incidentally, did anyone go to Loftus Road in August 1977 to see the reserves play QPR? Bob Wilson in goal, a shattering 1-0 defeat … ah, them were the days.

Nico
March 29, 2005

GunGun, actually the game was on March 29th 1975 rather than 1974. My guess is you may be sliiiightly younger than me! I was 15 at the time. The crowds were getting smaller match by match in those days because the fare was so so dire and the team was teetering on the brink of relegation. I don't remember the Storey tackle at the throw-in but nothing would surprise me, the fella was full of guts, which could occasionally overflow into excess. Hardly ever got sent off (if ever), though, as he never argued or showed dissent, I seem to remember. Apart from Simpson, who was the other cb for that game? It wasn't Kelly, so it must have been Matthews. I believe so, as I seem to remember Kelly foraging in midfield and being one of the better players of a pretty poor bunch. We were scraping the barrel for cb's (and for inspiration generally) at the time. Blockley was a dreadful buy, we should never have lost McLintock in the first place - why did the Double side break up so quickly? Blockley played only 6 games that season, wasn't in the Stoke game, and was gone by the following [even worse] season. The cb position (apart from poor old Peter Simpson) was instead graced by a certain Terry Mancini who played 26 times that year. He was dropped though for the Stoke game and replaced with Matthews who was more of a midfielder, if anything at all, which just about says it all. I guess you'd call Matthews a 'utility' player; I thought of him as useless. It was a desperate season, a very strong flirt with relegation, and we ended 16th out of 22. That and the following [75/6] season when we finished 17th (and Mancini scored the winning goal that upset Bernard's Dad in the 2-1 over Wolves on April 13th) were the worst seasons I can remember. Mind you, in Graham's last with us, we had a little flirt with the drop zone too, and only the points we scraped at the likes of Highfield Road's bog saved us from that fate. I felt GG blotted his copybook very badly with John Jensen, not only because of the real motivation behind the deal (the bung), but because he spent the post-1991 title years ripping the inspiration and creativity from the side whilst totally ignoring the youth system. He became lazy, in a word, complacent and arrogant, and the Cup wins only made things worse as they papered over the cracks which we very nearly fell through. No more Davis, no more Thomas, no more Rocky, no more Limpar, in fact no wingers at all unless you include the awful Helder who came in briefly just before GG was fired, instead we had to stomach the likes of Hillier, an inexperienced Selley (another unlucky one perhaps for OMOHoy) and Morrow and were linked in the transfer market with the likes of Geoff Thomas. The tactics became more and more route one as it became clear that Wrighty's pace was our only trump card. There was a midfield bypass in train (commemorated regularly by the fanzines) and no decent youths to replace anyone. Graham had truly lost it up there in his ivory tower and when the board gave him money to spend he wasted it on a young and untried Hartson, Chris Kiwomya (another player for the not-so-greats list) and Helder (ditto). The last time GG tried to strengthen properly after the 1991 success was when he nearly completed a swoop for QPR's Les Ferdinand and Trevor Sinclair, which I think would have been an excellent, forward-looking deal (unlike anything else that came after Keown and IWWW), but it fell through at the last minute. After that it was all down hill until GG was sacked (quite rightly) and Bruce Rioch steadied the ship in 95/6 and paved the way for Wenger. Memories, memories - blimey, it all makes me feel so old, but also, yet again, very fortunate with what we have today.

kiwipete in Gove
March 29, 2005

Saddened to hear the news of the Gleibermaster's demise. Hope you have a seat in the clouds directly above Ashburton big fella. Deepest sympathies to RobK and all family members. Roast Beef agree Henry has the vision to play in that role and lots of times he does seem to get more pleasure providing a goal than actually scoring. Think Kennedy was Shankly's last purchase and was inspired remember one goal he scored against us was so cool. Charlie George's departure killed me wife even asked whether I would go on supporting Arsenal.

Roast Beef
March 29, 2005

Of all the transfers from us in the 70's, the one that really affected me the most (apart from Chippy),was the sale of Ray Kennedy to Liverpool. Liverpool added another 5 years to his career by converting him from a forward to a mid-fielder. It was truly inspiring coaching. Do you think that the same thing could happen to Henry ? I think he will be a natural in his later years for doing a DB10 "in the hole" type role, and using (by then his incredible experience) to "pull the strings". Paisley obviously saw it in Kennedy, it could be there in TH14.

Andy Green
March 29, 2005

Anyone remember a game @Highbury,I think on a Friday night when England U21 beat England,maybe 68/69 ish.For old uns two great goals Jimmy Robertson against Charlton and Jon Sammels 30 yarder(against Man U ??)

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

CB - Gaillard specifically said that Moanio had said that he saw Rijkaard enter the ref's room & that a Chelski statment said that it was seen by 2 Chelski staff (not including Moanio) - & that they could not have seen what they said they saw from where they were standing. On that basis the 2 staff lied & so did Moanio. Rijkaard may or may not have gone into the room from what Chelski saw because they weren't in a position to see it. And it was Gaillard's statements that Moanio was threatening to sue over! Moanio also said that 'I saw ..' to reporters after the game too. Just as he said he was in Italy at the time of the Cole meeting. One other thought about Cole's willingness to change his statement - the timing seems to coincide with international duty, when there's the chance that he had his card marked by potential future teammates.

Bernard
March 29, 2005

GunGun, I would have been there, but can't remember the game.

AmericanGooner
March 29, 2005

While taking a throw in!!! Classic. Love it...love it!!

GunGun
March 29, 2005

Nico, I am amazed to find someone who was there. We must be roughly the same age. I remember how appallingly bad the football was in those days. One particular challenge comes to my mind that afternoon. Peter Storey tackled a Stoke player good and strong whilst he was taking..... a throw-in. I remember the man in the East Stand next to me saying:He should have been sent off for that. Kiddo for England was the cry from the North Bank in those days. In that season it looked we were almost going to go down but then we picked up.

Västerås Gooner
March 29, 2005

goonerguru, thank´s for the info on Kay.

Nico
March 29, 2005

GunGun, I was there, it was dire and I thought we'd never equalise.

Azinoz
March 29, 2005

Here's one for Goonerguru, you metioned Mel Charles in a previous post, his first game for us was a Saturday afternoon resrve game at Highbury (as you would know in those days when the first team played away the reserve side played at home)and because of all the media attention I believe we had the biggest crowd ever for a reserve match that day. I was at the game and an attendance figure of about 20000 comes to memory, can you confirm this one way or another..... On the question of the lowest turnout against Leeds another reason it was so poorly attended was the weather was absolutley foul that day and I remember sitting at home tossing up whether to go to the game and freeze my bollocks off or watch Liverpool I think it was in the Cup winners Cup on TV and in the warm comforts of home. I shamefully admit I watched Liverpool that night.

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Roast Beef, yes I remember those Derby cup ties, and Charlie's two (and his celebration you described) in the 2-2 draw there. Daz, if you're around, I think your downer on Reyes at the moment has been noted by most of us, and the impression I get is that you think he's being disloyal. But aside from a brief criticism of his performance at home to Munich, I've seen no comment from you on Cole apart from a 'pay him whatever he wants' type remark when news of his meeting before the Man Utd game initially broke. Is that because you think Reyes has been more disloyal than Cole, and if so, why do you think that? Or is it because he is (or seemed to be at least) your favourite, do you just not want to demand as much loyalty from Cole as Reyes, and again, if not, why not? Or am I wrong and your views on Reyes have nothing to do with loyalty (however defined)?

Andy Green
March 29, 2005

Roast Beef.That Tuesday afternoon game against Derby had 63000 there the capacity at that time.I think Ray Kennedy scored in the first five minutes at Filbert St and we rode our luck a bit

GunGun
March 29, 2005

My first Arsenal game was at Highbury on 29 March 1974 versus Stoke City. Rimmer, Rice, McNab, Nelson, Storey, Kelly, Simpson, Matthews, Ball, Stapleton, Rostron, Hornsby. Stoke took the lead through Salmons and Eddie Kelly equalised. Brian Kidd was injured that day. I remember the bovril.Bought a ticket at the turnstyle 1 hour before k.o. Was anybody there that day?

Nico
March 29, 2005

Boa Morte got two in that Birmingham game, and the finishing was so good, the North Stand could be heard giving him the IWWW treatment.

AmericanGooner
March 29, 2005

A top American lawyer, CB?! He'll tell Jose to do what all our 'top' lawyers do here 'lie through his teeth'. The press has a love affair with all things Chelsea now, but when they start losing, they'll bring all this stuff up and pile on them and him. Its just a matter of time. He's not Arsenal and and he's not Man Yoo so they are happy for a bit of a change. **** Robben may turn out to be one of those great players that is always injured. He's young but suffering a lot of injuries. He may turn out to be a crocked player after one injury too many. **** A question for the guys with the old stories. Was the hooliganism as dangerous as I hear it was in those days? Was it always that way or did it all happen about a certain time? In the 50s and 60s could one travel to Manchester, Leeds or Liverpool on match day and wear your colors? Also, I can't imagine standing on the terraces for that long. I'm used to all seaters here and maybe us Yanks are a little too soft in the bottom and our legs not as sturdy but it seems a tough way to see a match but I suppose you do what you have to do.

Cannon Balls
March 29, 2005

Dormouse,the crux of the Mourinho defence depends on what were the exact words that he used. I can not see him putting up this i believe what my staff tell me i am a trusting guy one unless his statement can be construed to fit that scenario. Bruce Buck the Chav's chairman is a top American lawyer and Kenyon is a practised liarand con-artist from his time at United working for the drunken jock. If Mourinho said that frisk WAS SEEN going into the Barca dressing romm at half-time and not I SAW him then there is a different emphasis on his statement, he is putting it down to his staff and saying in effect, hey why should i not believe these guys they know i only expect the highest standards blah, blah , blah. If the panel choose to disbelieve his staff then it's them who have lied not Mourinho who they misled. Anyway none of this nonsense will endear Mourinho to Uefa and i can't see the Chav's getting any favours done again like in the Terry incident in the last game against Barca.

clock end clive
March 29, 2005

Bernard - yes you are right it all comes back now. It was against Brum and we had a very young side out - Boa Morte scored as did Mendez.

old man of hoy
March 29, 2005

Enjoyed the posts today - thanks. In honour of any liar who may visit Israel. A guy is driving around suburban Jerusalem and he sees a sign in front of a house: "Talking Dog For Sale." He rings the bell and the owner tells him the dog is in the backyard. The guy goes into the backyard and sees a Labrador retriever sitting there. "So, you talk?" he asks. "Yap," the dog replies. "So, what's your story?" asks the man. The dog looks up and says, "Well, I discovered that I could talk when I was pretty young and I wanted to help out. So I told the Mossad about my gift, and in no time at all they had me working flat strap, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders and suspected terrorists, because no one figured a dog would be eavesdropping. I was one of their most valuable agents for eight years running. But it was exhausting work and really tired me out. I knew I wasn't getting any younger and I wanted to settle down. So I signed up for a less stressful job at Ben Gurion airport to do some undercover security work, mostly wandering near suspicious characters and listening in. I uncovered some incredible stuff and was awarded a batch of medals. During that time I got married, had a mess of puppies, and now I'm just retired. And pretty much, that's it." The guy is amazed. He goes back in and asks the owner what he wants for the dog. "Ten dollars." The guy says, "This dog is amazing. Why on earth are you selling him so cheap?" "Because he's a liar. He never worked for Mossad!"

Roast Beef
March 29, 2005

My other great Charlie George moments were in the FA Cup in the mid seventies when we had the mammoth series against Derby. The Baseball ground was like a sand pit, and we were cordoned off in the "pop-side" and had to put up with the home fans "gobbing" at us over the dividing fence. It really was a nightmare afternoon, but Charlie scored two great goals and even ran up to Cloughie after the second one, slid on his knees and gave him the vee's up !. Fantastic stuff. We then had the replay in the afternoon on a Tuesday (miners strike/power cuts I think) huge crowd at THOF but a dire draw. Then we did them at Filbert street I think. Charlie must have impressed Cloughie, because he ended up buying him !

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Clive, I saw the Crowe thing, sent off 33 seconds after coming on I believe. Think it was the League Cup (whatever it was called that season - was it Carling?) game against Birmingham, or maybe Coventry. I'm fairly certain Boa Morte scored and we won, perhaps 4-1. More I think of it, more I think it was Birmingham, not Coventry.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

Moanio said 'I saw ...'. There should be no way out of that for him, whatever someone else told him.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

Didn't Coakley come from Motherwell?

clock end clive
March 29, 2005

Apparently Tommy Coakley was a successful manager at Walsall between 1986-89. After football he jointly ran The Swingers Golf Driving Range in Lichfield in partnership with David Kelly the Irish international and ex-Hammer. May still be doing so. The net is amazing at times. One other for the Unlucky Eleven - Jason Crowe - possibly the fastest sending off in our history - i was at the game when he came on as a sub, made a bad foul and was immediately red carded. Can't remeber who we were playing -was it a Carling Cup game? Crowe never seemed to appear again, went to Pompey then to Grimsby - obviuosly likes the seaside.

DaveB
March 29, 2005

Regarding the 4554 attendance at the Leeds match I remember at the time hearing that the fans in the North Bank had kind of arranged to be absent and in this manner lead a protest against Billy Wright. Not sure if it was true but it certainly did the trick. I certainly cleared off at half time when we were 0 - 3 down!

Cannon Balls
March 29, 2005

Motor Mouths admission that he never saw Frisk go into the Barca dressing room at the Nou Camp is a further attempt to muddy the waters and to squirm out of being caught lying again. He is saying that if one of his staff tell him something then he believes it: "I can not work without loyalty " rants Mourinho. So who is the patsy who is going to carry the can for misleading Motormouth?. A security one or minor training or physio staff perhaps? - who's nest will have been well feathered in advance for getting Motormouth off of the hook.Mourinho can even gain Kudo's from it, instead of being shown to be the lying scumbag that he is, he can feign outrage and order the errant staff member to be fired for lying and bringing him into disrepute!. After all he fired the club doctor for disagreeing with his view on how Robben should be medically treated,and the doctor was telling the truth!.

AmericanGooner
March 29, 2005

mcquilkie, kick a guy while he's down, don't ya? haha..You can only play the teams in your region. Also, its not a major sport here. All the other countries with the possible excepton of Canada has football as its national sport. Our best athletes are in a handful of other sports. I wonder how Austrailia would do in our group? In the last WC, not only did we beat Portugal, we made it to the QF and didn't get to the semis because of a dodgy referee decision that replays showed he got wrong. We've come a very long way (and still have a ways to go). How did CONCACAF get that extra spot? It was because its countries did well in the WC against other regions. In other words, we earned it. Sounds a bit sour grapes...mate. Seems interesting you also have no comment about the Mexican crowd's behavior. A tacit endorsement of their sentiments perhaps? Having known a few Aussies from my travels I actually want you guys to go to the WC and despite your enmity, still do.

AmericanGooner
March 29, 2005

I read a Chelsea forum on another site and I was a bit surprised at some of the fans trying to justify everything. A few noble supporters said, 'we broke the rules'. But too many didn't think it was that bad and still more focused on the outrage of a sanction that is never going to happen (docked points) and saying its pick on Chelsea time because everyone is jealous and envious of them. Its almost laughable **** The one thing we learned from Watergate here is that people will forgive the crime but its the cover-up that that they won't forgive. All parties should have admitted it initially and spare themselves the circus this may become.

AmericanGooner
March 29, 2005

Once again, great stories. I am now even curious about the 'worse' players. **** Dormouse, if we are honest with ourselves, we may have to concede Terry as the better partner presently on current form. I just couldn't state it myself. **** babu, I think us, the fans will never call it Emrates Stadium. We'll do what we did with Highbury, which you know is not its official name. The press is what will be the ones to win over. I will be interested to see if they call it Emrates or Ashburton Grove.

Yorkshire
March 29, 2005

Dave B. The Leeds match has always been wheeled out as testimony to Arsenal's poor support (esp by Tottneham fans) but if you dig deeper there is an explanation behind it. The match was a very hastily re-arranged fixture ( a matter of days) and given virtually no publicity. It was also re-arranged on the same night of a European final and one of the first ever televised live on TV. Arsenal’s average home league attendance that season was over 22,000 so it should be seen for what it was. A fluke combination of circumstances that culminated in an attendance figure totally unrepresentative of Arsenal’s support that season. In deed, further proof was supplied just 3 days later. Arsenal played again at Highbury on the following Saturday and had an attendance of over 16,000 even after losing the Leeds game 3-0.

DHD
March 29, 2005

Just back and having scanned the stuff that's been appearing here recently, I could have spent a far more interesting Easter than the one the social secretary lined up for me. Ian Ure was a bloody good CB but seemed to reserve his cock-ups for the big games. He was a former medical student (apparently) and won us our first trophy for years - Quizball! Tommy Coakley. Alan Skirton. Flint McCullough. Seeing Joe Baker decking man-mountain Ronnie Yeates in the cup. Cringeing with embarrassment while Cardew Robinson led the singing so the crowd could practice our new anthem 'Good Old Arsenal'. Being another of those 4500 that night against Leeds. Getting in to a 'closed' bar in the shadow of the stadium in Copenhagen with the magic password 'Johnnie Jensen' and getting rat-arsed with the locals - I wish I'd stayed in there. Good stuff posted this weekend. Gold.

DaveB
March 29, 2005

Just remembered his name ... Tommy Coakley. Anyone remember him? ... thought not!

Bernard
March 29, 2005

LTG, yes I was trying to think of Jimmy Young's name but couldn't, so left him off my list of Cardew Robinson and Pete Murray. Maybe I got Robinson wrong because in the day long build up you used to get to FA Cup finals, he was certainly used on Grandstand (or whatever channel it was) as an Arsenal fan in the build up to the 1971 final. I did mention Jensen though; doesn't get into my worst ever side but is appreciably nearer to it than my best ever side. But I've said this before, I think later events showed one of the major motivations Graham had for buying him.

old man of hoy
March 29, 2005

LTG my son's first game was the day Jensen scored his only goal - we were in the west stand right behind the shot and it was a beauty. Jensen , like Schwarz, was a good professional but certainly not somebody that you would build a team around as has been the case with Paddy. Apart from that goal my fondest memory of Jensen was in Copenhagen for the sad Galatasary match - we Arsenal supporters were being sent round the houses by the local gestapo who would not let us into the stadium. John was there for TV so we asked him to intervene on our behalf - he tried with no success. Bit like his career at Highbury really.

DaveB
March 29, 2005

Thinking of wastes of space, worst teams etc., what about that little winger we signed from Motherwell, must have been in the early sixties, who was absolutely useless. I remember seeing him a few years later playing at right back for Chelmsford - probably where he should have been all along. Anyone remember his name?

DaveB
March 29, 2005

Just catching up with the postings after a couple of days away and referring to the comments about Ian Ure. I well remember him being played at centre forward in the game against Leeds that we lost 3 - 0 at hame. I'm proud to say I was among the total of 4,554 who were at the game. It,in my opinion, represented an all time low both in performance and attendance. As I recollect Billy Wright was gone pretty soon after that. Makes one appreciate the sometimes brilliant stuff we are seeing nowadays and puts some of the good old days into perspective.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

VG,Kay made his debut against Luton in 1984,he player 13 games for Arsenal before going on to Wimledon,Middlesborough on loan and ended up at Sunderland.

Västerås Gooner
March 29, 2005

I think I have to include John Kay in the unlucky eleven side. I still have that game against Luton away 1985 recorded on video (somewhere). He scored an own goal in what I think was his debut for the club. I have no idea what happend to him later.

Nico
March 29, 2005

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/4387633.stm...here's a link to a breaking news story dormouse has obviously seen already. Does Pinocchio's 'admission' mean the others lied to him as well? Seems he and those around him are not people you can trust. He's probably been advised to tell the truth to mitigate the penalty. Let's hope it's a big 'un. Oh, and if anyone thinks the lying culture at chelscum has nothing whatsoever to do with the very top man, they'd better think again. Apples go rotten from the core.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Thanks for that Dormouse,sounds like we could be adding him to our worst ever Arsenal team in a few years time if he comes.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

goonerguru - yes - arseweb did a piece in December - http://www.arseweb.org/www/newsreel/t2i1104.html

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

goonerguru - GK, I think

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

I Need some help here lads,who is this guy is he a defender?thishttp://skysports.planetfootball.com/Article.asp?id=265726

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Long Time Gooner,I thought like you that Cardew Robinson was on Quizball,he was certainly an Arsenal supprter,Lee Montague did he play the baddies in some TV films?.Like you say John Witty who the **** is he,done a quick serch and apparently he was the computer voice in an episode of Doctor Who.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

So now it looks as if Moanio will admit that he lied in his witness statement to UEFA - & after threatening to sue Gaillard. You would think that lying in a signed witness statement would result in an extra, even more serious, charge.

North Bank Mural
March 29, 2005

Long Time; I thought JJ was a grafter, always running and working for the team. Not blessed with flair but certainly in the Ray Parlour mould, who knows what AW could have done with him. Sadly the fact that he hadn't scored seemed to overshadow everything in the end, why he was singled out for that is strange really as it could have been addressed at many other players. Don't you just love the British press? Not. Not convinced by the motivation driving Hose A Moanio's flirt around the edge of politics in Israel. Is it an attempt to curry favour with the football authorities, a kind of football community service, or a genuine attempt at helping the youth there?

Long Time Gooner
March 29, 2005

Bernard. Looks like the passage of time is eroding our memories. I was sure that Mike Sarne was one of our 'guest supporters' on Quizball. You thought that it was Cardew Robinson and Pete Murray. I've now checked a website which offers the surprising info. In 66/7 it was Jimmy Young; in 67/8 it was Jimmy Young and John Whitty (whoever he was), in 69/70 and in 70 it was Lee Montague. In 70/1 we didn't participate (presumably because there were more interesting things happening on the pitch by then). So no Mike Sarne, and no Pete Murray although he was a guest supporter for Fulham in 66/7. Peculiarly in 71/2 Nicholas Parsons was a guest supporter for Spurs against Leicester in the first round, but by the final he was suddenly a guest supporter for Leicester.

goonerguru
March 29, 2005

Clock End,I remember the Baker/Yeats incident,I think they were both sent off and I think it was a cup match,there was a story going round at the time,don't know how true it was,that Liverpool thought they could win the tie if they could stop Baker playing even if it meant one of there own going off as well,and they did go on to win the game.Have to say Joe Baker was one of my all time fav players,fearless in the box,fast skillfull and my god couldn't he head a ball,he had a broad Scottish accent but played for England and his brother Gerry played for the USA.

Long Time Gooner
March 29, 2005

PS The pleasure was somewhat nullified by the fact that we lost 1-3.

Long Time Gooner
March 29, 2005

Surprising given our reminiscing over players who perhaps weren't as good as they should have been that the name of John Jensen hasn't cropped up. I and my sons did have the pleasure of seeing that goal against QPR, and being at the front of the family enclosure were immediately behind the ball as he shot. Incredibly he scored three times for Denmark whilst with us. With the passage of time what's the forum's view on his contribution to the cause?

Bernard
March 29, 2005

david.d, any idea who it was against? I also seem to remember a great David Hillier goal. It was definitely at the North Bank end, and have it in my mind as against either Liverpool or Sheffield United, though I could be wrong regarding the opponents.

david.d
March 29, 2005

bernard - yes it was definitely a martin hayes goal and i think it was in an away league game. i remember seeing it on tv and it was a cracker.he just glided past man after man. he was definitely capable of a few magic moments was our martin...

clock end clive
March 29, 2005

More on Max von Ure - the internet tells me that he played for Dundee and whle he was there, under the management of Bob Shankly (Bill's brother), they won the 1961/2 Scottish First Division and then reached the semi-finals of European Cup before losing to eventual winners AC Milan. I recall they were a fine side and Ure was a rock. With our European pedigree he obviously took a step down when he joined the Gunners. Alan Gilzean - one of Cannon Balls favourites i suspect - also played in the same team. The net says Ure was sent off 4 times and that the one against United involved Denis Law - both got a 6 week ban! He also got sent off against Fulham after a fracas with Allan Clarke, later of Leeds. To keep the circle going - who does the previously mentioned unlucky Fabian Caballero play for? Dundee of course.

Roast Beef
March 29, 2005

During the Ure days we were a dire team, but Monday night and quizball was 'must see TV" as invariably ure would go "route one" to win it for us. Saw the exorcist the other week, and yes "Ures truly" (his book title) does indeed look just like Max von Sydow.

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Been thinking through the candidates for my team, and some of them did decent things. Hayes' goal at Middlesbrough, for example, and others recall some mazy run and goal (which Daz wanted to also, though I still can't - and I'm trying). Morrow got a League Cup final winner even (before Adams broke his shoulder), whereas McGoldrick got a glorious goal in the 0-7 annialation in Belgium, I'm sure Hawley got a really good goal at home to Tottenham (in a 1-3 defeat if I remember correctly). And who can forget Perry's sub appearance in the 1987 League Cup final, and semi-final goal at Goodison in the same competition. But for consistent uselessness, they all still qualify as worthy candidates.

old man of hoy
March 29, 2005

I wish Mourinho would swap jobs with Sven. That way we get the best of both worlds - a much better England and a weaker Chelsea. Mourinho would give England the resolve and discipline to win the World Cup - he would surely end Beckham's tenure as captain which is seeming increasingly untenable. On the other hand Sven would quickly undo all the good in Chelsea, probably by buying both Beckham and Heskey. Another candidate for the Unlucky Arsenal Eleven is Stefan Malz, who came, saw and was hardly ever played.

Bernard
March 29, 2005

Mural, re Leighton and others, including that list Nico produced earlier: that's why I tried to limit my choice to those who I remember playing a decent handful of games. I mentioned Hankin not qualifying for that reason: from my memory he came on as a sub in one League Cup tie. He was clearly useless from that 20 minute (or whatever it was) appearance, but I think you need to play a bit more than that to get in the side. Did Leighton ever play a competitive game; I don't recall him doing so? Nico, no it has nothing to do with that (your analogy between my views on Fred and my Dad's reaction to Mancini's goal). In fact I welcome Ljungberg's goals (unlike my Dad with Mancini's) - at least they mean he's done something worthwhile in those games.

clock end clive
March 29, 2005

On Ian Ure i remember in the pre-match warm up he used to go down to the North Bank/West Stand corner where he would go through a drill of keepy-uppy as clever as Pele. However, once the match started he would forget all that and revert to hard Scottish b***ard. I admired him for giving somebody a right-hander and getting sent off - not as common a thing in those days as now. Can't recall who he hit but was it Crerand of United? Also recall that other Scottish hero Joe Baker giving Big Ron Yeats of Liverpool a wallop and also taking the early bath. I believe Ian Ure is now in the prison service in Scotland? Must say to look at he reminds me of the great Swedish actor Max von Sydow. Ian Ure as Death in a Bergman film is possibly a fantasy too far.

Dormouse
March 29, 2005

Seems to me that Cole is likely to tell the truth because he has been convinced a) that he won't get away with his previous lies & b) that EEC legislation might get him off the hook. Chelski are guilty whichever story Cole gives, but probably don't expect to mind because they can afford the fines.

North Bank Mural
March 29, 2005

Jeff Barnett, now he had slipped from my memory banks. Great scouser perm too! Didn't he deputise for an injured Bob Wilson in the 1970 FA cup final? Mick Jones header won it I think. What about Jim Leighton on loan!!! He was practically finished at the time I think and we got him in as cover, also the guy from Bournemouth, was it Vince Bartram? There, we have had a dodgy keeper or two! Alan Miller showed early promise but never fulfilled it, personally I feel Stuart Taylor has good potential but can't see him hanging around.

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