Steve Gleiber's Arsenal Supporters Forum

Azinoz
April 02, 2005

Eskimo, I think I love you.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 02, 2005

Niall - that point about winning trophies as against playing attractive football is an interesting one. In this day and age is winning trophies that important given the financial rewards for merely qualifying for the CL. As for winning the CL only one team in the whole of Europe has that pleasure each season so does that make the other 200 + teams, however many are eligible, failures. In the historical context of our Club what do you think AW most lasting contribution will be, winning a handful of trophies or changing the way our Team and Club are perceived by the wider audience. You touched on the answer in your post when you mentioned sp*dz, their double winning side was lauded for the way they played the game and the title and cup wins were the icing on the cake. I think I'd rather see us play an expansive game that was rewarded with a trophy every couple of years or so than the relentless pragmatism of mourinhos mob, on balance I think AW has got it just about right.

Mee
April 02, 2005

Niall: Let me take you back to 1954 and the great Hungarian team which lost the World Cup Final to Germany. That team had few peers at international level. The German shirts with their three gold stars tell us they are three times world champions and yet has their style of play, their technical ability and tactical awareness ever changed the way football is played, as was the case with that Hungarian side? Football is not simply about winning. West Ham with just a few trophies and spells in a lower division built a reputation for playing football of the highest quality, had all their players stayed together; Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Carrick, Lampard, Defoe they would probably be in contention for the PL, but more importantly would be playing the kind of football that Wenger so admires and which we at Arsenal see every week. Man U have won more titles than us during the Wenger reign, but would any serious student of football claim that their football has approached the level of artistry and panache that we achieve? We have proved that such a philosophy can win both admirers and titles, but the winning of cups and titles do not in themselves define a team, football supporters the length and breadth of the country make the final judgement about the great teams over a period of years, trusting a roll of honour and trophies in a cabinet to decide the finest teams is a risky business - ask Johann Cruyff and the total football team of Rinus Michels, who also lost a world cup final to an instantly forgettable German team.

Bernard
April 02, 2005

Daz, I'll leave to to your heavy debate with Eskimo and Chocolate if you so wish to partake, but just to say that with me it's very heavily international football, actually. I admire Schumakker (spelling) greatly, but he drives for an Italian team and I had zero affinity with Inter Milan when Brehmer, Sammer, Matthaus, and Klinsmann played for them; so I don't really think that's the same as supporting Germany in Formula 1.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

Eskimo, continue going against the herd mentality. **** Niall, you must have really hated the movie. I had to chuckle a bit. You guys are surrounded by football 24/7 over there. At the time when it made its way to the states, the internet was nascent, television coverage was dodgy, no access to footie magazines, so to us over here litterally anything football related was appreciated and add Arsenal to it and it was...okay, I won't use Citizen Kane but we were very glad for it. **** Niall, has Ireland ever played N. Ireland in football? A friend from Dublin was asking about the England v. N. Ireland score last weekend and I asked him if both countries ever played and he didn't seem to know. He's not a big football fan, he was just curious and he knew I would have been keeping tabs on the game.

Eskimo
April 02, 2005

Daz - Do you not see what I mean by the Chocolate thing? ' Choklit, Chocolat, shockolade' - bloody hell! ***And like American Gooner said, it's hard to tell if you are being serious or lighthearted on the internet. At the time it sounded like you were suggesting that I be a 'normal' teenage girl when I had spent so many years being treated like crap by girls who were seen as 'normal'. So I found it very offensive. I decided when I was young that a) I didn't want to be anything like those girls and b) I wanted to be myself. So I did things that felt natural and made me happy, no matter what anyone thought and as long as it wasn't bad for my health and didn't bring shame to the family. Watching/ talking about/ reading about/ thinking about Arsenal felt natural and still does. It feels like I was born to support Arsenal and I'm not going to stop supporting them because it seems strange to people I've never met. I do what I likes and I like what I do, and I know for a fact that not many people (especially teenagers) can say that. The words 'popular' and 'normal' don't mean much to me and the concept of peer pressure is something that I find both amusing and confusing. I spend my spare time with my brothers and sister because they are the people I love the most. I listen to all sorts of music (RnB, rock, pop, hip hop, jazz etc) all from different eras because it's what I like (whether it gets to number 1 in the charts doesn't bother me). I don't pay attention to fashion and buy clothes only if they catch my eye and I rarely know which shop I'm walking into. I read books that are as far away from my life as possible, watch tv programmes that make me laugh (whether they are cartoons or not) and will follow Arsenal for the rest of eternity. Is that alright with you?

Niall
April 02, 2005

Alex, so you think playing pretty football is better than winning trophies? Is this not a Spurs attitude? Don't you think that a winning team needs a balance between a good defence and a good attack? Of course it does as most of Arsenal's winning seasons in the past have shown. Also do you not think that really, Chelsea have been the better side this year and that caling their football, Wimbledon like is a load of tripe. I sure do.

Alex
April 02, 2005

With regards to the 'Great Back Four', I appreciate that there weren't that many great forwards in that team, but my point was that defenders always look better in teams that are designed to defend. The problem with those teams though are they tend not to get many goals, therefore not win so many games. The 'strikers win you games, defenders win you titles' idea is rubish. Some times strikers win you titles, sometimes defenders (we should know that at Arsenal more than anywhere). The idea that football is all about winning is also rubish. It does matter how you win, and also it's a spectator sport, so you should try and entertain. Lets see how consistent Chelsea can be with thier win at any cost, spend Ł200 million to play like Bolton, attitude. This is exacly the point that Fergy fails to realise. Gamesmanship winning will never be remembered as fondly or for as long as winning the right way. Let Chelsea fans watch goals from set pieces all they like, I'll stick with the most beautiful attacking football this country has ever seen (though there seems to be a lot of the former on my older videos). This is why Campbell is still more impressive than Terry.The only positive I can find about Cole leaving would be to shut up the xenophobes who are always bleeting on about the 'bloody foreigners'. Who's more loyal now. The rise in standard of the England national team is in direct relation to the increase in foreign football players. English players do not get into the biggest teams in England because the standard at grass routes up has got to improve. Diving! Have a look at old videos, it's always been here, foreign players are just better at it. As for Arsenal, look at youth level and reserves, lots of British players, but most of the best ones are foreign. Also, would there be so much fuss, if 9 of the first team players were from Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and America? What loyalty does your average England fan have to those countries? France is pretty close you know, and at least I can understand what Henry says, with Ally McCoist i've got no chance! Sorry about that, I feel a lot better.

Niall
April 02, 2005

American, we agree it was bad then so lets not get caught up in any "Citizen Kane" comparisons. The movie was poor end off, but watchable nevertheless. On High Fedelity, buy the book, disregard the film and you will enjoy it. About A Boy falls into the same category but the film wasn't as bad, though average. I'm sure Horby wrote one more book, but I've forgotten it at the minute.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

Niall, I've not the read book or seen the movie High Fidelity. I plan to at some point. I liked Fever Pitch the movie only because it was the only movie available that was all about Arsenal. It was bad when compared to the book but to an Arsenal-starved yank such as myself it was Citizen Kane (what we deem as the best movie ever made here). Nick Hornsby's dad on not going to see Arsenal. "I thought you'd be over by now?" Nick "I'll never be over it"---brings a tear to the eye, don't it? ; ) I have a couple movie-mad coworkers and we always complain about how hollywood now makes movies according to focus groups and demographics in minstead of just doing what the old timers did. Make a good movie and the public will appreciate it. This version is awful. Bloody awful. I have half a mind to round some expat gooners from the pub and protest the opening in our Arsenal shirts. hehehe...

Niall
April 02, 2005

Btw American, it comes as no surprise to me that Fever Pitch is being ruined by Americans. In fairness though the British version was pish as well, turning a very funny book into a dreary film bar the end which as i explained during the week still provides the odd goosebump. If you want to see a book really destroyed, buy High Fedelity by Nick Hornby which is the best book I've ever read, then watch the movie. That was a travesty.

Niall
April 02, 2005

American, don't worry about Daz, anyone who has to resort to going back to 1483 and the Spanish Inquisition to "playfully tease" needs to get their head out of the sand. Reminds me of my old history teacher who spent too much time researching irrelevant crap to enjoy life for what it is, although Danton, with whom he shared a remarkable likeness in the flesh, was his favoured target. For the record though, American, it is Christmas Card list, not that Daz would be worried about that either since he's already alluded to his pagan lifestyle on many occasion. Of course, I jest Daz, but console yourself in another victory over Chocolate Gooner on the German language translation point. I make that 1-0 to you.

Nico
April 02, 2005

Daz, I read it a long time ago and don't remember much except I felt it was a bit light on historical accuracy but then it was meant to be a romantic novel, right? Only those weren't romantic times. The Italians were just as bad as the Germans were to us. They started it, of course, cos Mussolini couldn't bear Hitler occupying all the important countries, so they insisted on getting something for their trouble and picked on little Greece. They went on to do all sorts of ruthless stuff which has managed to stay well hidden from view cos people didn't mind them that much in the end, they did most of what they did at the start. I also heard the movie wasn't too faithful to the book; did you ever see it, Daz. Cannon Balls, I love most made-for-tv English dramas (I love that squawking crow you always seem to get in the background, whether it's Colditz or Midsomer Murders!) and didn't watch Colditz cos of my obsession with the War. Actually it was a toss-up between Colditz and the Fingersmith and I figured, since Colditz was done and dusted in two consecutive evenings, I'd watch that and tape the Fingersmith which runs over three weeks with the Sky Plus series link. Anyone have any views about the Fingersmith?

Alex
April 02, 2005

Watched AZ Alkmaar last night. Kromkamp wasn't playing, but he would have to be a lot better than his team mates to be worth considering. Very ordinary team, dire game, no one else looked like a prospect. Not sure how they are doing so well in europe. 8 Million rated Maxwell also looks pretty ordinary. I watched Ajax a few times this season and no one has ever stood out. Van Der Vaart, Schneider, and Pinaar alright but no better than are young players. Alex and Van Bommel look far more impressive, but Van Bommel wants first team guarentees, and as I've stated before, we don't need another young CB (though I might make an exception for Kompany- though I don't know why people keep priceing him at 10M, Jose said he was quoted 30M- and Chelsea are still interested so it won't go lower than 20M). Marco Ne didn't do enough for me in pre-season, but havn't seen him since. On the Taylor front, he's a good GK, but his kicking is bloody awful, and he's highly conservative (as anyone who seen him in the reserves will testify). Wenger even likes his GKs to attack, he doesn't want another Seaman. Having said that, I think he went a little overboard with Almunia. Anyone seen Knut Broch or Silvio Proto? Proto apperently does not want to be a N. 2 or 3, and is willing to go to a bigger Belgium club first.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

Ralph, while reading some of the old stories on here, I recall one of them (forgive me for not remembering who posted it) said that Keown went to each man and faced them to see where they stood after a few losses. He wasn't one to muck around. **** Good to see Wenger talking about finishing 2nd. I think its imperative for a number of reasons. Other than the cup its one of the only real goals left in an otherwise bad season. Man Yoo has had our number this year and to nip them to runner-up will go toward restoring a bit of confidence (beating them in the cup final would be even better!). We've gone a month without conceding a goal. 2 big away wins at Bolton and Blackburn, both in form clubs, while playing with numerous first team injuries, should signal our intent. C'mon Arsenal!! **** No worries Daz, are we exchanging Christmas gifts again this year? It should be painfully obvious to all that I will drone on without a care or concern as to how it is received.

Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
April 02, 2005

AmericanGooner: Ta, for reminding me of Martin Keown's "powers". I heard on radio this morning he is at Reading and even though he has not started a game yet, his boss Steve Coppell was singing his praises which are pushing Reading towards the Premiership. P'haps Martin should return 'home'...

Cannon Balls
April 02, 2005

Nico.i watched Colditz and it was rather entertaining,i always like these war drama's about English Officers with their public school accents making fools of the stupid Huns.The way the officers refer to each other by their first names and obviously have known each other at Eton or some such place until one oversteps the mark and is put in his place by a pulling of rank, and that is an order Left- Tennant Smyth-Bigglesworth !.I noted that the cad who betrayed the chaps and lied imporsonating an officer to steal the heroes girlfriend was only a common corporal really and not of course English!.He came to a suitable nasty end.

Daz
April 02, 2005

Nico: Went to pick up my girlfriend (who works in telly) from the first screening of Colditz like the gentleman that I am. Didn't see it but she really enjoyed it and I got to see that nice Damien Lewis who is a very good actor. We must be careful, however, not to offend Bernard who supports Germany in everything. What did you think of Captain Corelli's Mandolin (the book) I thought it was E*Gs. OK, American, the post below was a joke but - and don't take this to heart - if somebody can't work out when they're being teased that's their problem and I'm not going to worry about it too much. You worry about my style and I worry about the barrage of posts droning on about 'pool and citeh and the toon which start from about the moment you get up. It all evens out.

Daz
April 02, 2005

Happy to resolve that one for you, American. You're being insulted.

Alex
April 02, 2005

American. Thanks for the info. Also hope you're right about AG. Emirates! Chelsea dump them, and we pick them up! Sloppy seconds. No thanks. How come point docking is suddenly 'unheard of'. 2 points in 90/91 if i'm not mistaken. Not sure what Wenger's comments about Chelsea will achieve. Bad news about Senderos. Ashton looks dangerous (had a good game for England U21s).

Alex
April 02, 2005

Wenger would let Aliadiere go out on loan because he tried to get him to go to West Ham for the end of the season, but Aliadiere refused. I think he might try and make some unrealistic demands at the end of the season, and that could be the end of him. Mee, I couldn't agree more. Thank God, we are no longer like a Newcastle, desperatly hoping for past it players to come to our club for some glamour. I haven't seen Kameni, but he doesn't want to leave. I still think Wenger will stick with Lehmann one more year, so the speculation is a bit futile. I have seen some good GK performances this season, but the problem is knowing whether they are right for a bigger club. The GK role is very different. The only way I can be sure is when they are at a big club, but then they're not going anywhere! Doormouse, agree that those 13 years must of been tough, but not everyone that uses the 'band wagon' argument was supporting then. At least it was easier to see games live! Also, is it not harder in some ways to go so close, but then fall short to Rupolph the s"!t nosed b!""ard, three years in a row. Maybe not. But then surley success tastes sweeter. Has anyone else seen Frankie Simek play. He'll never make it at Arsenal, but does anyone else share my admiration? Havn't seen such a tough tackler in a long while, can play a bit too.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

I wonder if the stadium will be referred to as Emirates? I have a sneaking suspicion it won't. Just as Highbury is not the official name, I think supporters will always call the new place Ashburton Grove or come up with a shortened name like 'the Grove' and never refer to it as Emirates. I wonder what the press will call it. **** Chelsea could have a tough game at Soton. 'Arry has had them playing better and they are in a relegation dogfight. With most of thier players in internationals, plus Robben out, and a few other injuries, Chelsea could find themselves in a draw. Man Yoo could find themselves in a draw as well.

Mee
April 02, 2005

Dave b: In answer to your shade on the pitch question, I believe the edges of the stand roof are transparent so I imagine that will help things a bit. Of more concern is that fact that the playing surface always suffers in these enclosed stadia. How many times do Man U and Newcastle rip up their pitches in a season? However I think AG was the subject of some fairly elaborate wind tunnel tests which the soil experts say will allow our groundstaff to replicate the sort of billiard table pitches that we are used to playing on.

Nico
April 02, 2005

Missed a lot of interesting material today, it seems. Daz, the unacceptable delay of your response to my urgent query last night about Maria forced me to go and see Million Dollar Baby instead - heavy stuff. Thanks anyway for your advice and, on balance I think I may give it a miss now, as I agree with your sentiments on that type of movie. Mind you aren't you also a little tired of movies about WW2, the Nazi's and attempts to get into Hitler's warped psyche? Two I've recently seen which impressed me were Uncle Adolf (made for tv with Tom Stott in the starring role) and, most recently, Colditz (again for tv, but more of a love story/drama with not much to do with the Fuhrer and actually portraying the Germans in quite a congenial sort of light really), both of which I enjoyed. I confess to being rather [morbidly, probably] facinated with the period myself (the Greeks' suffering during WW2 is as under-rated as their football - that's my excuse, anyway)and nearly decided to see Downfall tonight at the Everyman, but on second thoughts opted to watch an unrelated movie (Man on Fire with Denzel Washington) at home on dvd with one of my older sons who likes violence. All this totally unrelated to Arsenal, of course, whom I avidly look forward to watching tomorrow after what seems like an eternity. My metabolism is at its lowest after two whole weeks of international football.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

Chocolate Gooner, fair points. If we get him at a bargain (not likely in your asessment) I wouldn't mind. I also think we could have a capable winger in Quincy and don't think SWP is a must buy. I'd like him to play for us but not a must buy. I did read though, he said he does look for Arsenal results. Whether that is due to his father playing for us and he has an affinity or a deep desire to play for us, is anyone's guess. **** Wenger will never consider Aliadiere as a serious prospect to be our main striker until he can be sure of his fitness. Being injury prone has killed his chances I think. He'll get one more shot perhaps and if he suffers another long term injury, he'll be labeled crocked and he'll leave with a slight nudge out the door. Probably a loan deal that will become permanent. That's the usual modus operandi. **** Milan holding an in-form Man Yoo scoreless in both legs reduces Chelsea's defense to no more than 2nd best in Europe in my opinion. **** The American version of Fever Pitch is out in theaters next week and the previews I've seen are terrible. Its done as a slapstick comedy, featuring the Boston Red Sox instead of Arsenal and 86 years since a title instead of 18. It looks bad though, I'd avoid once it hits the UK, if it even makes it that far. If it does arrive on that side of the pond, avoid it like the plague.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

Parkerknoll Gooner, although Keown didn't play as much last season he was very influential in training. He may have helped more than we imagine. With him gone there is no one left. Who ever is the coach for the back line, he hasn't been successful in continuing Kolo's education. Keown's absense is the only thing I can think of that may have affected Kolo's continuing development. **** Ralph (3/- Clock Ender),I don't see RvP as a provider for Henry. Not that he doesn't have the skill, he doesn't want to be. I think he fancies himself a goal scorer. You can see it in him, he'll pass as a last resort. Also, one more thing I think will stop him from being a support striker. His right foot. A support striker HAS to be two footed and feel comfortable passing with his 'weaker' foot. If they are to form a partnership, it would have to be Henry playing provider/scorer.

AmericanGooner
April 02, 2005

Mee, I wrote what I thought was a good response to your Cesc in Barca post until I read later it was an April Fools joke. Its the 2nd time today I was caught out. **** Eskimo, any use of time that doesn't hurt others and yourself is time well spent. I envy you. I wish I would have been aware of Arsenal as I was growing up. I showed (and still do) the same intenstity for the American teams I followed. One of which reminds me of Arsenal in a way. But I have to confess that my love for Arsenal has eclipsed the teams of my childhood. Its not the Dodgers or the 76ers bumper sticker that is on my car. Daz, I think your style is one in which someone doesn't know if they are being teased playfully or insulted. That's the problem with the internet, you can't see the gist behind the written word at times. I'm not asking you to change your style (although I'm sure you'd offer the opposite advice to me ; ) but respectfully letting you know how your style could be mistaken at times.

Cannon Balls
April 02, 2005

GunGun,i was refering to the CL regarding Chelseas defense which you once claimed to be the best in Europe if i recall-or was it Gunfire?, your opinions and posts about the Chav's being like two peas in a pod.I know that your not Gunfire because he cannot post twice to me without expoding into foul-mouthed profanities for some unknown reason.His post about prefering Everton to the Scousers and Duff being better than Rooney were forum classics. However i am digressing , actually old chap if you check the recent stat's you will find that our defence is now better than the Chav's and i believe will stay so now until the end of season, given our run-in being easier and Henrys hat-trick that he will get in our 5-0 win at the Bridge. Saturdays game at Saints looks tricky too if Chelsea's players are not over their International exhertions, they don't want to give the drunken jock any encouragement now - he still believes that he can win the league!. And that's when he is sober for five minutes after getting out of bed.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 02, 2005

Dave - I read a couple of lines in that about the new ground being made of aluminium and gave it up as an April fool. Should I have persevered? As for the shade thing - it is bloody annoying sometimes, but I think the fact that the sun won't oblige by staying in the same bloody place all the time makes it a problem we'll have to live with. Daz - normally I'm quite happy to have a little snigger at him wriggling on various hooks making a bit of a fool of himself, but I couldn't let zeitgeist go. It was so blatant and unretractable...

Cannon Balls
April 02, 2005

Chocolate,the 'prima donaishness' is a reference to Reyes attitude when falling over after some innocuous tackle brings him crashing down to earth like a Pine tree felled by a Canadian Lumber-Jack. That painful reproachful look that he gives to the referee who waves aside his demands for a free kick are far too frequent. I was on his side over his and others of our players over the brutal treatment dished out at the boots of the drunken jocks thugs at OT. But even before then and more so on the odd occasions that we have seen him play since i must confess to having been disapointed in his performances. Just the odd flash here and there really. That's why i am in favour of giving RVP a run to see what he can do, and to give him more experience for next season. If Reyes is off and that seems likely ,or he has no interest in playing for us and that looks certain then leave him out. Unless he decides he want's to stay and shows it by improved performances and a more constructive attitude to prove that he can live up to his large price-tag and reputation. So far i am afraid apart from a few games against modest opposition at the start of this campaign he's done neither convincingly.

Daz
April 02, 2005

Chocolate baiting should - like most blood sports - become either illegal or boring, Mee. But it's hard when the quarry appears so willing to participate and is so relentlessly inventive in making such a total arse of himself. I have to admit that during a boring working day or when I'm stuck on something it's often too tempting - there's only so many times you can visit 8th Street Latinas after all.

DaveB
April 02, 2005

I have just read Ian Grant's piece on ANR re the new stadium at Ashburton Grove. Everything seems to be on a grand scale and I'm really looking forward to it. I have a question which someone may be able to help me with. Seeing as I'm in Toronto I obviously watch games via the TV, and what really annoys me in some stadiums is the way part of a pitch always seems to be in the shade. Question is, does anyone know if the design/positioning of the pitch has taken this into account in an effort to minimize the effect or was this ignored? Probably a small point in the scheme of things but ......

Daz
April 02, 2005

Back from the gym, full of the joys of spring, lots of lovely girls out in the street and...let's see...has choklit explained why my definition of zeitgeist was so poor and provided his better alternative? Oh that's strange! No he hasn't. An apologia for the lamentable little lloron (that means crybaby in Spanish, choc) Reyes, some wittering about how sad it will be if Aliadiere goes, and a piece of sidestepping of Exiled's question straight out of the Strictly Chocolate making a total Penis of himself Again. But nothing on Zeitgeist. I wonder why.

Vicky C. Crescit
April 02, 2005

Steve Martin - You are lucky if you only get Boooby Robson when you log into Arsenal.com. I keep getting Big Fat Sam Allardyce and I don't need that!

Niall
April 02, 2005

Could you run that by me again Decaf?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 02, 2005

Choccy - sad really. You said his definition was cobblers - why? And don't start any of this 'rarely exchange views' nonsence to avoid an answer. You may not have noticed but you're not sending individual emails here, you're posting on a forum. Every view anyone posts on here is shared with everyone that reads it. Tell you what, try this...

GunGun
April 02, 2005

Cannon Balls...I know you are a pretty simple man, but even you have to admit that Mourinho`s defense has been better than Wengers defense. Lets try it with numbers. Maybe you can follow. Chelsea have conceded 10 and we have conceded 32. Now thats simplistic but football is a simple game for simple men! So, Cannon Balls, I may have a kindergarden teacher mentality and you a skinheaded brickie mentality but we still share the same forum and the same team. By the way, once more, I am not Gunfire but I don`t really mind if you think I am. I think you are quite funny really, rather too aggressive though.

Bernard
April 02, 2005

Mee, apologies as I always thought April Fool's Day lasted until mid-day, and I presumed you'd posted it after noon. Of you hadn't, once again, sorry.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

Exiled… sorry mate. No can do. I know and you know that nothing I proffer on this forum will enable you to ‘get’ my posts as it were. And to be honest, since we very rarely exchange views it’s no great loss to either of us. I don’t understand your interventions any more than you understand my posts. So … you can wade right out again. Cheers all. Goodnight.. I’m off to knit my sandals… and wear some yoghurt. Or is it the other way round??

Mee
April 02, 2005

I think it is a measure of how the club has developed over the past seasons, and the emergence of some precocious talent, that players like Owen and Beckham would not find universal accceptance amongst the fans. I hope Owen does not arrive as part of the Reyes deal, leaving Aliadiere and Lupoli, among others down the pecking order, and Beckham, surely would be a luxury if signed just for dead-ball situations and crosses from the right which require a Duncan Ferguson type target man to aim at. It‘s asking a great deal of the young players at the club in such a crucial season, to deliver a CL place, but I would prefer that to players looking to Arsenal in order to salvage ther careers.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

Cannon Balls I know what you’re saying, in fact I partly agree with you. I too think that we need experienced players to create a better balanced side… although I also think the need for experience is probably overstated because this season we managed to loose both Gilberto and Edu to long term injury and contract wrangles respectively- hopefully next season won’t be so bad. The point, though, is that we need the right kind of experienced player… and I don’t think that Owen is it. On Jose, I have to say that I don’t really blame him. If there are players who are making his life miserable in the dressing room and if his family have so spectacularly failed to settle…what’s the incentive for him to stay? If he’s miserable at the club and his parents and girl friend are miserable at home… what do you expect him do… really? The guy had a cheeky, impish smile when he started this season and now he just seems miserable. In an ideal world I would like him to sort out his problems and fulfil his undoubted talent with us but failing that I would like us to get a fair price for the guy and invest that money in some suitable talent. I also fail to see how you can call him a prima donna. The guy is, if anything, too humble. Cheers. … … … … … Chippy… Aliadiere has just had rotten luck. I totally agree with you when you say that it will be a pity for both us and him if he leaves. Cheers. Cheers all.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 02, 2005

Choccy - got to join the throng on this one. Since Daz's (rather accurate to my mind and apparently to at least 1 online dictionary) definition of 'zeitgeist' was so completely and totally wrong, what does it mean to you? If you could actually answer this question it may go a long way to helping us translate your posts into something approaching logic.

Chippys Chisler
April 02, 2005

I suspect you are right Chocolate. Pity for us and Aliadiere.

Cannon Balls
April 02, 2005

Chocolate,the connection between the two was their age which i pointed out shoud not whatever reservations there may be about Owen age is not a valid reason for us not buying him. Some of the others you mention the injury proness maybe.I unlike yourself am not that convinced by young Jose he came in like a lion but appears to be leaving like a lamb. Going on about the weather and nasty people in the Arsenal dressing room etc does not endear him to my less than normal anyway tolerance of primma donna type footballers.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

I’m afraid that Aliadiere’s opportunity to play for Arsenal may have been and gone. The guy is truly gifted but his injuries have really set him back. I think that the guy has lost probably a total of two seasons worth of development to injury. He was almost ready 2 seasons ago when he came on against Boro at Highbury and showed enough in some 10 mins to prove that he was a real talent. Then he had hernia problems. Then last season, just as he was about to hit his stride… he had another bad injury… And most cruel of all he got injured at the very start of this season. In the mean time he has slipped down the peeking order with Quincy and others now seriously staking a claim. I hope he makes it but it going to be tough for him because the manager can only play so many “inexperienced” players at once. It ‘s no one’s fault really… just a case of truly rotten luck. Cheers all

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

Cannon Balls… I have to admit that I fail to see the connection between us signing Bergkamp at the time we did and us signing Owen now. At the time we signed Bergkamp he was a world-class player moving to a team full of fairly ordinary players… in other words it made perfect sense because such a signing was always going to benefit the team. If we swap Owen for Reyes (that is the only deal that I’m aware of that will see Owen at Highbury) we would be signing an expensive, injury prone and very technically limited goal scorer whose ability to enhance our team in any significant way has be in serious doubt. On the other hand we’d be losing a truly gifted youngster who has every opportunity to become a true world great. Like Bernard said, if Reyes wants to return to Spain; let Madrid pay us what he is worth … in that way we can then go shopping for a replacement. Owen ain’t good enough. At least that’s what I think. Others are free to disagree. Cheers.

Chippys Chisler
April 02, 2005

Agree with Ralph re Aliadiere. He will become even more important when the Uefa regulations come in regarding squad sizes and origin

Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
April 02, 2005

Cannon Balls – I fully agree with you that OWEN and other ‘senior pros’ are what is required at a current major club like ARSENAL for the last Highbury season and beyond. However, Mr Wenger must not though allow real talent we already have like ALIADIERE go to waste without first giving them a chance. I truly hope SENDEROS & RVP gets to start in all remaining games (Prem & Cup) until end of this season, even if it jeopardises a 2nd spot finish. If fit, ALIADIERE must be given more Prem starts and last 20mins sub appearances before making any Summer squad decisions. This lad has grown up at Highbury and should not now be seen as just a ‘young prospect’ but as a fully fledged squad member.

Cannon Balls
April 02, 2005

Ralph,whatever reasons or reservations about Owen coming to Highbury there may be - age in my view is not one of them. Bergkamp was no spring-chicken when Rioch brought him over from Seria A where he was floundering in a sea of defensive morass,unable to use the full repertory of his great skills. His presence and abilities transformed our team with the arrival of Wenger, who it was rumoured had advised Dein to buy Bergkamp while the manager in waiting in Japan. There are times when experienced players need to be brought in to the team - and now is one of them - we already have enough 'young prospects' - a couple of older established pro's would not go amiss next season. We have to make sure that the Chav's do not stay on top -and to remind them that we are Londons top club not them. When we move to the new stadium it would be nice if we are Champions - fittingly for the super-stadium.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

What in tarnations is Decaf saying? Can someone please help…

Chippys Chisler
April 02, 2005

Hope we don't go for Kameni as every two years 3 of our back five (Eboue and Toure also) will trot off to the African Cup of Nations just as the Premiership and Chapms League gets interesting.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 02, 2005

The week was going so well and then all of a sudden.... Just goes to prove that too much chocolate at Easter can prove nauseous.

Decaf
April 02, 2005

"buggering off back to Harlow". Poetic, Steve. Careful someone doesn't steal that for a TV show title or somthing. Enjoy the weekend and the good weather. Its cold and wet here "op de plaas".

steve martin
April 02, 2005

Is someone taking the midget, everytimne I go onto Arsenal.com, Booooby Robson appears, what's going on... Looking out at the Tate, I see they have Nauman, Strindberg & Bueys this week, boats floating down the thames, sun shining, London actually looks good, still I'm buggering off back to Harlow, have a good weekend all...

Decaf
April 02, 2005

One would like to think so, Mee. But I think that would be confusing 'analogy' with 'homology'. Me not gone.

Chippys Chisler
April 02, 2005

SWP would put his heart and soul into playing for us but I do not think he is good enough and certainly not at the prices quoted. Physically he is too small, imagine a midfield in a couple of years time of SWP, Cesc, Flamini and Cole/Clichy. And you think set pieces are a problem for us at the moment. If Owen came we could field the smallest team in history.

Mee
April 02, 2005

Are choccy, Nikola, and Mr & Mrs Eskimo related?

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Whooosh! I think someone just avoided the point again. Or are dictionary compilers 'dimwits' too? Me gone. Cheers.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

What is Decaf talking about… Does anyone know???

steve martin
April 02, 2005

Chippy, sit on the fence please... Daz, Norwich at home... Watch it at 8.15 football first... Screen on the Green, cinema for the Indies... Well when was the last time Arsenal were top scorers three years running, someone must know...

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

Darren… all I’m saying really is that SWP’s price has to be right for the club. I have to accept your word that he would like to play for the club and I have very good reason to take your word on this… and to be honest if he would love to play for the club and what with his Dad being a hero also, I’m even willing to accept Bernard’s proposition that we pay a bit more than what his pure market value will be… 9m GBP maybe... Having said that, some of the prices being bandied about for the guy are just crazy. 17M GBP the City chairman mentioned. That kind of money is truly ridiculous. Cheers. … … … … … Daz, your posts are just silly. It isn’t my job to educate you. Find out the meaning of the German notion of “geist” for yourself - you lazy, sloppy dim wit, then compare it to your own bit of idiocy earlier… and weep. Another thing I find amusing about your posts is the way you assume that because you attach a pejorative meaning to something that that ‘thing’ suddenly and automatically becomes bad, evil or false… whether it’s a meaningless bit of bumpf like ‘Political Correctness’ (which you can’t define) or something totally idiotic like “google”. So, dear Dr. what exactly is wrong with googling? I presume that you’re not complaining about the correctness of what I say …otherwise I presume that you and your all singing, all dancing qualifications would just prove them wrong. And furthermore what does it say about you that someone who has no idea about a topic like say… emmm… sophism.. can show you and your Philosophy 101 up by simply googling on the subject. How dim are you… exactly? Cheers.

Chippys Chislers
April 02, 2005

If Aliadiere can stay fit it would be like havinga new striker. He has almost made it in the past but always got injured just as he is breaking through. Wenger rates him so he will not let him go on loan. He could be a star for us if he gets the breaks or he could be Upson and prosper elsewhere

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Can't wait any longer otherwise I will have to start claiming overtime. No doubt he has gone a-googling, and will come back as living proof that information does not equal intelligence. Mee, Chocolate has a history of making a lovely fool of himself, and only needs a little prodding.

steve martin
April 02, 2005

Sorry to interupt with some footie, but it seems that PV4 and Senderos, will not be availble against Norwich, Poxy Internationals... Still the Invisible shield is back... No Sol or Senderos...

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Perhaps Georgias would stand as an honest broker here? Choc's admiration for him is well known.

Mee
April 02, 2005

As a new forum member, unaware of its machinations and intrigues, I can’t pretend to understand this relentless baiting of chocolate. Nevertheless it seems like good, harmless, knockabout stuff - keep it coming.

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Come on Choco-google. Georgias, Daz, Daz's friend, and I await. Try this one. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zeitgeist

Daz
April 02, 2005

Come on, Choklit, no good hiding, you know I'm waiting for you. Haven't I already demonstrated legendary patience and determination where you are concerned. All you need is a dictionary. What is YOUR definition of zeitgeist?

Gorgias
April 02, 2005

Unless of course he is stupid.

decaf
April 02, 2005

Actually, Choco, its simple. Are you or are you not intoxicated? Otherwise Daz's point, let alone mine, would be perfectly clear to you.

Daz
April 02, 2005

Can YOU help, Choklit (that's the weightwatcher woman from Little Britain) by explaining the flaws in my attempt to explain zeitgeist and your alternative version.

Gorgias
April 02, 2005

Speaking of "geist" sets me off thinking about what the greats would have said if they had lived in a post-Chocolate age. For example, would Schopenhauer have written "The world as will and idea" if he had thought of the snappier "The world as will and mars bar", and De Carte might have left us with the profound: "I think therefore I am not Chocolate Gooner." (OK he might have lost the "e").

Darren
April 02, 2005

Choccy - SWP really would like to play for us. I know this from my oldest friend, a music journalist, who, being based in Manchester, has got to know SWP a bit. The last time they met up they spoke at length about AFC and his affections for the club and his ambitions to play there one day. However, you are right that this is no guarantee he will, especially at the prices being touted.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

What is Decaf saying?? What does he mean? an anyone help. Cheers all.

Daz
April 02, 2005

Excellent, and I was about to kill the rest of Friday by going to the gym but gather round everybody 'cos shockolade's about to voluntarily make a complete idiot of himself again, his appetite for self-humilaition seemingly undimmed. If 'zeitgeist' doesn't mean reflecting the attitude and spirit of the time then what does it mean, chocolate? You're a google away from making a complete E*G of yourself but that will be an all too familiar feeling. Beware of your answer, chocolate (that's Spanish by the way) because Judge John D will be on hand to give judgement and you can't resort to the thesaurus or any of your infamous "meaning as we all know is nuanced and therefore interchangable" attempted get-outs. Those who didn't like the Sophist debate look away now 'cos chocolat (French I think) is coming at us with the zeitgesit...

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Chocolate, as a fellow gooner, could I take the liberty of advising you, in your current state, not to operate heavy machinery, ride a bicycle, or attempt to balance on the pinnacle of the Ulan Bator radio mast? Over 100 four letter words in that last post. How much more must we take, Niall?

GoonerForever
April 02, 2005

Aliadiere certainly looks a class act and if he gets an injury free run in the team I'm sure he can be a good deputy to Henry when injured. I'd would much rather see him given his chance rather than signing Owen. I'm not too sure about Aliadiere and TH playing together, which would require Henry playing in the Bergkamp role. On that subject what do you think about Bentley or RVP filling Bergkamp's boots?

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Yes Bernard. It could be a cunning ruse from our Machiavellian midfielder. Simple Chocolatian logic suggest that Fabregas building a house in Barcelona means he is moving to Milan. After all, Beckham was continually building houses in London, a clear indicator of his move to Madrid.

chocolate gooner
April 02, 2005

Bernard… I agree with you when you say that SWP is a much-improved player. I don’t think that there can be any argument about that; what I question is the clamour from a lot of our fans for Wenger to sign him… even at the sort of hugely inflated price that Man City are talking about. If, as American Gooner says, we can get him for around 7-8 GBP then I have no problem with us buying the guy but if we are going to blow anything over that amount on him then I’m afraid that I’ll have to dissent. Cheers. … … … … AG - Let me say that I like SWP; I think that he is conscientious, hard working and very level headed but there are better players than him out there who will do a better job for us given what City are likely to ask. I also seriously doubt whether City will let him go for anything under Ł12m and in the unlikely event that he is offered for sale at less than 10m GBP… all manner of clubs like will wade in with bids and there is absolutely no guarantee that he’ll join us… as a matter of fact no one knows for sure if he even WANTS to join us. If he fetches up at THOF I won’t exactly start crying but I won’t be all that thrilled either he is a good player not a world beating talent and my view is that if wasn’t related to Ian Wright the hype surrounding him as far as Arsenal fans go won’t be half as loud. Cheers. … … … … … … Now to totally irrelevant and boring matters… how are you doing Dazzy Boy? Or should I say…What’s up Doc! … Whenever Daz feels the need to explain one of his ‘jokes’ you can be sure that he’s taken another one of his regular tumbles from his high horse. The point dear Dr., which you missed as usual, is that your attempted (and what a pathetic attempt that was) explanation of the meaning of the word Zeitgeist was a load of nonsense and that in it’s turn made your attempt to concoct a sentence in “Germglish” a ridiculous over reaching of your rather limited abilities. Joke or not. Having said that though… I have to agree with those who say that they find your posts funny… because your posting style, after all has been said and done, is just the forum’s equivalent of watching Elmer Fudd consistently blast his own foot with his blunderbuss while hunting the “wabbit”. Cheers.

Mee
April 02, 2005

Bernard; Have you noticed what day of the month this is? Sorry mate - couldn’t resist it

Decaf
April 02, 2005

Three points (ordered alphabetically as Daz likes 'em). 1) 1. Chocolate "Coco" Gooner, you should read the package inserts before you mix drugs. 2. Niall, I analysed Chocolate "shE*G" Gooner's last post and by my rough estimate it contains 18 four letter words. A banning offense surely? 3. With the new regime, is it completely verboten to do the odd little innocuous thesaurus-aided thingy under someone else's name, provided we promise not to call you a fenian gobsmack? Or would that offend Nico?

Bernard
April 02, 2005

Mee, sorry but I've only just seen your post. For a start you were going on about him returning in two years, now you've moved it to three or four. Secondly, as others have said, I'd actually be quite surprised if he didn't have a house in Barcalona. If I was a player abroad, I would certainly have a house in London, where I was born and bred, even if I had no intention of ever moving to play for a London club. I would suggest Fabregas building a house in Barcalona is absolutely meaningless as far judging whether or not he'll ever play for them again. I don't mean any offence, but why are you so obsessed with the idea of him returning there, though? Him moving anywhere at some point in the future is a possibility, but you seem to go on and on about the certainty of it, when there's no certainty at all? He might do, and he might not. But having a house in his home city is irrelevant to his decision.

Cannon Balls
April 01, 2005

Leaving aside GunGuns rather simplistic reasons for us not doing well in Europe in the Champions league, which was also the case long before AW arrived at Highbury, the problem is more perplexing than not just defending well. In the past under AW we have had seasons in the CL when we have defended well and got results away at some tough venues like the San Siro - but our inability to break down defenses at home let us down. Then when you look at the results of EPL Clubs in the CL since it's inception it is apparent that they are not very good. And despite that one win in '99 that includes United too.In fact considering the huge amounts of money spent and the domestic dominatation the drunken jocks one is a disgrace. He has tried various tactical systems but is unable to come up with a winner, a bad choice of players that he bought also exacerbating the situation. Perhps EPL sides are not cute enough overall in their all-round play in the CL ?. Has Mourinho according to GunGun really solved this problem with Chelsea ?. Not from what i have seen of them, but Mourinho's self-induced lack of presence in the dugout will not help their cause in the Bayern Munich tie either - motivation and shouted instructions in his 'hands on' style of management rather than tactical-nous beng paramount to his team. Unlike the Euro-teams who can think on their feet Chelsea are like puppets with Mourinho pulling the strings.

Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
April 01, 2005

Re: new striker for 2005-06 season – Has anyone actually studied JEREMIE ALIADIERE closely when he has NOT been injured? I cannot wait to see him given his head by Mr Wenger. From the small snippets of TV footie, he has appeared to me talented on the ball, fleet-footed and more than ready to have a pop at goal whilst trying to appease Mr Wenger by making each goal as complex as possible and pleasing on the eye. I am not feeling comfortable at the possibility of OWEN arriving at Highbury from Spain. OWEN is 25-26 years old and seems in a rut and needs regular games that only a EVERTON or a NEWCASTLE can provide. ALIADIERE is now 22 years old (30th March), cost nowt, seems the real deal (when not injured) and desperate to succeed. ALIADIERE also needs regular starts. Would OWEN’s arrival automatically mean ALIADIERE and possibly LUPOLI must exist stage left? In a 4-4-2 RVP must eventually play behind HENRY in the DB10 role or would he have to occupy the EDU position to accommodate OWEN’s presence each week? I am impressed by OWEN’s scoring rate and would love him as a squad player while LUPOLI grows, but he is no squad player and I feel OWEN would cause Mr Wenger to play quite a few chaps out of position and that does not bode well in the success stakes. In our final Highbury year we must continue to build for the future. We must NOT be desperate to win BIG next year (would be nice) but see a definite strengthening of our squad ready for Ashburton Grove season. That includes keeping and improving our quality youngsters..... FOR ARSENAL!

steve martin
April 01, 2005

2002-03 season we finished top scorers on 85 goals, 11 more than the next team (Man Utd)… 2003-04 season we finished top scorers on 73 goals, 6 more than the next team (Chelsea)… 2004-05 season, so far we are top scorers on 68 goals, 10 more than the next team (Chelsea) in fact, our total this season is already more than Chelsea scored all last season… Looks like we will end up top scorers this season, when was the last time we finished top scorers three years running…

Niall
April 01, 2005

After all the talk about Michael Owen lately, here's what our chum Micharl Lawton had to say about him this morning: It was supposed to be a milestone but what Michael Owen, aged 25, most truly reached at St James' Park this week was a crossroads.More than at any time in his impressively waged battle to lay down his professional values amid the galactico glitter, Owen was clearly a man in need of a new direction - and a new football home.This was painfully evident on a night when a fractionally sharper edge would have left him awash in bold headlines rather than cruel dismissal as a "midget" by the usually amiable Azerbaijan coach and Brazilian immortal Carlos Alberto.Owen never projected himself - as Alberto falsely alleged - as a five-goal beneficiary of a defence ransacked by Poland but in his body language alone, both in Wednesday's game and against Northern Ireland last weekend, he spoke candidly enough of his ambition. It was first to draw level with Alan Shearer at the 30-goal mark for England and then push on towards the pinnacle of Sir Bobby Charlton's 49.Half a dozen times he seemed on the point of moving along that road, but on each occasion he was a touch or half a stride off the mark.The explanation was one of the most basic truths of football. Not even a striker of Owen's natural instinct can stay sharp on the bench; he cannot do it waiting for a chance and then snatching at something you are supposed to do in a finely honed groove. It is the recurring nightmare of Owen's career of extraordinary commitment and consistency, and one which was previously most intense when he was forced to share playing time with Robbie Fowler and Emile Heskey in Gérard Houllier's rotation system at Liverpool. There have been times recently when that old desperation has reappeared.Against Northern Ireland he was not-so-gently mocked by the TV analysts - who this week so rapturously saluted David Beckham's improved form against the abject Azeris - for his celebration of a goal that went in off a defender. On Wednesday night he was cautioned - and suspended from the next qualifier against Wales - for handling a cross. These were echoes of the time he attempted to claim a goal when a shot from Frank Lampard flew off the back of his heel.Owen is plainly in need of increased professional certainties. He is no Beckham; he cannot glide through the worst of times with an untouchable self-belief and a publicity machine which would be the envy of the Hollywood hills. He needs the reinforcement, the oxygen, of that which has always been his supreme justification: the regular opportunity to display his knack of finding the net.He is not likely to get that in Madrid as long as Real's president, Florentino Perez, clings to the galactico myth, and though this has long been the concern of the England coach, Sven Goran Eriksson, there were pressing reasons to believe on Wednesday night that the worry might just have deepened.One problem is that Wayne Rooney, again luminous at vital moments, does not form a natural partnership with Owen, a point made by Jack Charlton before the Manchester United player broke open the Azerbaijan defence early in the second half. But if Owen does not instinctively relate to the range and the power of Rooney's game, who goes in? Jermain Defoe? We have seen the Tottenham player's cutting edge, but does his body of work begin to match that of the man he would replace? Given Eriksson's conservatism, nor can there be any easy chance to see if Andy Johnson could be anything more than a Premiership sharpshooter, another Vassell or Phillips or Beattie. Owen, when you look at his record, and his age, has to be the prime investment, at the very least until next year's World Cup finals.Alberto's disparaging rage, his miscalculation of character and achievement, was bemusing in a great player who rubbed shoulders with such as Pele and Tostao and Gerson. He said that Owen should wash his mouth and clean Beckham's boots. This was a parody of reality, surely, when your mind runs back through the peaks of Owen's contribution to England: the potentially vital but squandered goals in World Cup and European Championship quarter-finals, the unforgettable World Cup strike against Argentina when he was just 18 years old, and, poignantly when you thought about it on Wednesday, when he was so anxious to score, his fine goal against Azerbaijan in a gale in Baku last year. That brought three points which could never have been in serious doubt on Wednesday - and came, Alberto might have forgotten, when Beckham was under suspension for deliberately pursuing a yellow card.Now Beckham, on the back of a sharply improved contribution, albeit against one of world football's weakest nations, rides serenely again, and with strong evidence that he and his publicists are engineering a return to English football. However, it is Owen, without the professional insurance of being able to sell millions of shirts in the Far East, who has the most pressing need to leave behind the dust of Castille.They make fine steel there, but do nothing for the sharpness of an English swordsman too often obliged to miss the action.

Daz
April 01, 2005

I have no intention of playing for Barcelona but if I had the money I'd certainly get myself a house there.

goonerguru
April 01, 2005

Mee,if Fabregas is having a house built for him in Barcalona,I don't think it has got anything to do with him staying or leaving Arsenal,he works in London and it is only natural that he would want to go back to the city he was born in where his family and friends are,he has 3 months of the year in the summer when he is not playing for Arsenal and it makes sense that he would go back there then and has a young man who I guess is on good money would want his own place there.A question I would like to put to the forum is,does this website cost money to run and if so who has to pay it?

Niall
April 01, 2005

Nice sense of humour from the Times there.

Niall
April 01, 2005

Well Mee, do you not think Cesc would like a nice house in his home city, away from the likes of all those Cockneys like Daz for a few months/

steve martin
April 01, 2005

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,277-1550278,00.htmland http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,189578,00.jpg

Mee
April 01, 2005

Bernard: I have a friend who runs a property business selling villas and timeshare to would be ex-pats around the Barcelona area. Consequently he has an ear to proposed property developments, schemes and so on. He tells me that within the property world its common knowledge that Cesc Fabregas is having a house built in the Calella region of the city, which has been designed by Xavier Vendrell, apparently one of the most sought after breed of young architects working around Barcelona. What were you saying about the next three or four seasons?

CANNON BALLS
April 01, 2005

I was reading through the April Fools day joke posts and found one that was quite amusing. But then on checking the handle saw that it was from GunGun , and it was meant to be taken seriously!!: "Imagine", he demands:(Lennonesgue this is not however in it's wit) "Next season we are drawn away to Bayern Munich", he appears to have an obsession about the Germans old Gunfire, whoops! sorry - GunGun: "Do we defend?", he rants: "No", is the answer according to GunGun, and why not then you may ask. Well the answer according to GunGun; who says that in his day job he is a teacher, is because we can't defend see: "Have we learned any lessons", he drones on, the answer is according again to GunGun - no!, and then he points out: "It is all the fault of Wenger and Rice!": "They do not coach us properly for Europe". GunGun gave his brilliant solution to these problems in a previous post a few weeks back. Copy Mourinho was his considered advice to AW . Well i had a look at Chelsea's recent results in the Champions League and note that they have lost two of their last four games and never kept a clean sheet in any of them. No sign of any brilliant defending there then. More than a touch of good fortune involved though, like last season for Mourinho with his pragmatic tactics. And he will need more again with the teams that are left in the competition this time, which look decidedly stronger than last year at this stage of events. And Robben still sidelined through Mourinho's stupid insistence on rushing him back from injury. that was not so clever either. A touch of the panics involved??? - surely not...

Daz
April 01, 2005

Nico; Maria full of smack was on my weekend list but didn't go to see it because a) it 's showing at the right on and excrutiatingly uncomfortable Screen on the Green rather than the corporate comfort of the Islington Vue (my cinema of choice). b) I hate films about drug traffickers (rank with films about mental health problems and AIDS in my 'to be avoided' list). Did go and see quite a good French film called 5 x 2 which I can recommend. And really want to see the film 'Downfall' about Hitler's last days - apparently he was holed up with only his pet Alsatian, Eva Braun, a couple of secretaries and a weird Zelig-like creature who went under the name schockolade gooner and who was the only one to get out. Anyway, is there a home game this weekend 'cos I've lost my fixture list and I've been holed up in my work bunker for so long I really really fancy a trip to Highbury. You don't know what you're missing, Harlow.

Daz
April 01, 2005

All a little harsh though, Eskimo. It was only a lighthearted suggestion that you need some misspent years to look back on rather than cartoons and Thierry henry adulation although you shouldn't follow my teenage example - anybody remember Zoff plaster remover? I'm older and wiser now and prefer to hang out watching DVDs, grilling sausages or looking for new words to make myself appear smart at the expense of chocolate gooner. And on that topic, I wouldn't have thought I'd need to explain a gag to you Professor Funny Bone but putting 'chocolate' in German wouldn't have worked since your name as it stands is so ridiculous that it makes the joke funnier. I'm not quite sure that "shaften" actually means the same either - it was a phonetic (there I go again!) gag which relied on it sounding vaguely German rather than actually being German. Anyway, Eskimo, I quite enjoy your posts about reserve games as well and I'll take your word for the fact that goonerguru's allegations about your parentage are without foundation.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 01, 2005

"Stepanovs has also grown as a player since leaving us and is now considered one of the tallest defenders in the Swiss league." Made me chuckle.

Eskimo
April 01, 2005

Daz - I didn't think you'd remember the Rolie Polie Olie incident. And yes I am still pissed of with you. I do read your posts though, sometimes they are funny, but they never leave me with anything to reply to anyway, even if I wanted to. *** Didn't even notice the Mrs and Mrs Eskimo thing! Definately have a father and mum's no more a lesbian than I am a Spurs fan (although she does like to tell me how useless men are regularly). *** Gunnerguru - how did you know I was born late?! It's nice to think I was conceived on the day of an Arsenal win. PTBAG.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 01, 2005

Newsflash - I know what day it is but there are some things that you just do not joke about for fear of tempting fate. Ralph - this season has been very damaging for Toure, and consequently us, last season was a leap forward for him and this season has definitely been two giant leaps backwards. I hope AW can repair the damage done and as the Ivorian is such a likeable character I hope he returns to the form he showed last season, my one wish for him this season is that he can finish one of those headless mazey runs with a goal that either seals a Semi Final win or better still a Cup Final victory! Regarding Senderos I posted weeks ago that all he needed was regular top flight games to cement a place in the team. I hope he can complete the season as a regular starter as the confidence and experience he will gain can only do him good for next season and hopefully many seasons after. The same argument could be made for RvP as the kid is clearly talented but for me appears to be trying too hard to impress, if AW said to him he would be starting every game for the rest of this season we may see a more relaxed and influential player and we may get a better idea of where his most effective position in the current team is.

Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
April 01, 2005

Re: KOLO TOURE’s attributes as a central defender – I see Kolo as a ‘Jack In the Box’. His balance is all over the place and it often takes him, and more crucially others, into strange defensive positions. Whether this is due to his enthusiasm, panic or adrenalin, it has caused Kolo to admire crosses rather than attacking the ball and clearing it. Tony ADAMS was not as flexible or energetic as Kolo, but was “always in the right place most of the time”. This therefore comes from ADAMS good reading of the game and using percentages as to where an attacker will go, when & if he is likely to cross or shoot and his likely targets. John TERRY has this no nonsense approach in abundance and even though he has looked a dummy quite often when Chelsea concede or have survived through poor finishing, the main impression is that he does not panic and mostly makes his judgement without hesitation and goes in hard. Unfortunately, we have had Kolo ‘making it up’, causing havoc and uncertainty among our defence. Would LEHMANN have made as many errors outside the box if Tony ADAMS was present. I think not! We need a calming presence at centre back and in his brief appearances PHILLIPE SENDEROS has helped ‘calm things down’ in our defence. Mr Wenger may well save millions by just giving Kolo some valium.

steve martin
April 01, 2005

Fri 1 April...http://www.arsenal-mania.com/?page=articles&view=full&article=108418

Newsflash
Arsenal set to announce Stepanovs return
April 01, 2005

[News Release: 8:30am, Friday 1 April 2005] Arsenal are today expected to announce the summer signing of Latvian defender Igors Stepanovs in a Ł2.5million deal. The Gunners have called a lunchtime press conference at their Colney training ground when the 29-year-old is expected to be unveiled. The Grasshoppers Zurich star would become Arsene Wenger's first major signing ahead of what is expected to be a busy summer of transfer activity at Highbury with other names such as Shaun Wright-Phillips, Steven Gerrard and rumoured to be on his shopping list. Stepanovs may be seen as a surprise signing by some Gunners fans, but a Highbury source confirms the Latvian giant is still highly-regarded by Wenger and his coaching staff and is seen as the cornerstone of his rebuilding plans. "Igors is a player the boss always liked and he falls within our transfer budget, as an experienced player he will also not hold-up the long-term development of youngsters such as Philippe Senderos and Johann Djorou," said the Highbury insider. "Stepanovs has also grown as a player since leaving us and is now considered one of the tallest defenders in the Swiss league." Today's press conference could also confirm that Glenn Hoddle will join the north London giants next season as senior coach after resigning from his position with Wolves yesterday evening. Wenger hinted at the possible developments when he told the Daily Mail last night: "We will have a press conference on Friday. "We will be announcing a new signing but you will have to come along. You never know, there may be a surprise in store." [© Press Disaccociation, 2005]

Bernard
April 01, 2005

dormouse, I may be wrong but I'd be very surprised if Bergkamp wasn't the main 'assist provider' for Ljungberg's goals at Arsenal. If you mean most as in more than 50% of the total, then maybe Bergkamp doesn't have 50% upwards of the assists for him, but again I'd be very surprised if we wasn't ahead of the others. Henry second place, I'd imagine, Pires third. I could be wrong, but that's what I'd imagine.

old man of hoy
April 01, 2005

Thanks for those April Fool posts - good to see the old traditions carried on. Like The Easybeats i have Friday on my mind. Its dull and grey but yes Metropolis i am coming to work but i must pass on this reflection before i do so.Reporters from the Jewish Chronicle are interviewing Sadie, who is celebrating her 108th birthday. "Sadie, dear, can you please tell us what you think is the best thing about being 108? I’m sure our readers would love to know," one of the reporters asks. Sadie replies, "There’s no peer pressure."

dormouse
April 01, 2005

bye all.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Well, I'm off for 10 days now, so won't get to see any more shocking news. I wonder when it will all end?

Eddie Ball
April 01, 2005

Holy crap! The roof is falling in at Stamford Bridge. WoW! Mourinho quits Chelsea over UEFA. Read his resignation statement: http://chelsea.rivals.net/default...

Scott Miller
April 01, 2005

The BBC reported this morning that Roman Abramovich's assets have been frozen by the British Government in conjunction with recommendations from the World Bank. Mr. Abramovich has been accused of financing large opium farms in Afghanistan and has been laundering his money through a football club in London known as Chelsea F.C. Apparently he has been paying disproportinate transfer fees for players as a means to 'clean' his money. Chief Executive, Peter Kenyon, has been called the apparent mastermind behind the drug ring and was an integral part in developing the excessive overpayments right under the nose of the British Football Association. Jose Mourinho, coach of Chelsea F.C. made a last minute attempt to ward off the authorities by turning the world's attention to the actual salesman of the Opium, a Swedish gentleman by the name of Anders Frisk. Mr. Frisk declined comment but he did pose for the pictures. Adrian Mutu, a former player of the London basede football club, is the primary witness to the drug ring.

Steve c/o Coldiz
April 01, 2005

sorry about the spelling,I know what I need for a birthday pressy.

Steve c?o Cldiz
April 01, 2005

Okay these Helb rumours.Someone yesterday waned some more info on him.I´ve been watchin hi for years.Very srange player,neither fish nor fowl.Technically very good,rather romainian ,can go past players but not at lightnig speed.Quite strong,scores the odd goal,but his bet quality is his awareness,he sem to have 36O dgree vision.A bit like sherrigham,without the goals.Every yar he´s ben linked to a major club but it has´nt happened.Bayern would of ben tailor made for him,rough and efficent.I guess now Dennis is on the wain Weger must either follow suit and find a replacement(Prso,Van der Varrt,Tristian okay its impossible)or slightly change they way we play.All in all we will only realize how much Dennis means to us when he´s gone.Going back to Helb,I´d be happy to take him.Maybe 5mil and let Wenger raise him from very good league player to bordering on world class.Saying that I´d like to see Fabragas take that roll over and se what he can do.Watched him in the u21 in Sweden a while back and he can dribble.we will see.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

American - rumours and us are funny things. A number of our signings have been well signaled, with the signing coming when the rumour has died down (eg Reyes, van Persie) and it was known that we were fighting for Campbell for quite a while. But you never can tell what AW is going to do.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Bernard - I meant best goals.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Bernard, great point. I failed to mention Bergkamp. And he can make any one look good. Still, in Europe where Bergkamp doesn't travel, Freddie has come up with a goal or two. **** Alex, The strikers and attacking midfielders were better as the game went on and with the introduction of more foreigners in the '90s (Cantona, Berkgamp, etc.) who were more skilled than most of the native talent, it makes a case for how good the back 4 were. My only issue with any GK rumor is that it probably means we won't end up getting that player. As usual, we won't see it coming. We'll hear about it a few days, possibly a week before if we're lucky. Since he and Frey and others have been mentioned, doesn't that sort of rule them out?

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Bernard - I think that there will always be opposing views on Freddie & I think you'll find you are wrong that most of his goals have come from Bergkamp passes. He has ben a goal scorer in every team he has played for.

Bernard
April 01, 2005

And American, I'd bet most of Ljungberg's best moments have come through getting on the end of Bergkamp's passes, not via his relationships with Henry, Pires and Vieira (though they all will have made goals for him, especially the first two). Perhaps with Bergkamp probably retiring this summer, and even if he doesn't very unlikely to play as often next season, the idea that it might be the best time to sell Ljungberg may be supported.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Alex, American - Talking about GKs, what about the Kameni rumour? He is young & he has been performing well. Not seen him enough to have a strong view, but feel happier about him than a lot of the names mentioned.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Alex - there were 17 years without a trophy of any sort (1953-1970) when spuds won the double, 2 other FA Cups & the European cup-winners cup & were league runners-up twice. I was proud that we had never been relegated and my greatest hope every season was that we would not be relagated in it. And its not as if we challenged - most of the time we were pretty mediocre. My first attendance at Highbury was in George Eastham's first or second season with us (managed to get my father to take me; he'd given up going by then because we had moved away & it was quite a trek to get there). I do agree that we have had a smattering of success in most decades since Chapman, and that it was a pretty good record over the century as a whole but we have never had a period like AWs ever before. Supermac wasn't with us that many years (3 or 4 if I remember right) & the other players you mentioned were pretty inconsistent. I agree that the mythology of our great back four overstates the case, just as AW's reputation for attack understates how well his defences have usually done.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Alex, the weird thing about the U.S. league is that its basically owned by one corporation. The vast majority of clubs were funded by one corporation. There just isn't a big corporate sponsorship support for it, unlike our other major sports. Which gives you a clue as to why the league is kinda weak. That said, we can round up 15 or 20 fairly good players and with good coaching, make a somewhat decent national team out of them. Funny thing as well is our 3 top keepers are in the CL. Reyna as well, our captain. We have a couple players in the bundesliga as well as in lower divisions (Preston North End). The league is made up of uni players that have graduated college and aging latin stars, with a few aging euro players as well. I expect to see Becks and Sol in the league in a few years.

Bernard
April 01, 2005

dormouse, some people were supportive of the idea of playing Ljungberg up-front, and it didn't work. I think it was DaveM who said (words to the effect of) that if wide midfield really is his best position, then after seeing what he's like there, GULP!

Alex
April 01, 2005

Being unhappy in England (aren't we all), and wanting to leave is one thing, but blubbering dum ass desperatin pleas that undermine your clubs barganing postition is another. All after the fans have been so good, he has made us look like chumps. Really pissed off with Reyes. His position over the Aragones affair was highly suspect, and his atitude on the pitch is also less than desirable. Real don't want him, and certainly not at 17 Million. My girlfriend thinks that he is the problem this season. She thinks that he has ruined the team spirit. As far as I am concerned he can FŁ"$ Off!

Alex
April 01, 2005

Been looking at old Arsenal Videos recently, and I can't help but think that the 'Great Back Four' have become a bit mythical. I know these 'reviews' only show the goals, so you don't get to see the good defending, but they were certainly not 'impenetrable'. The best season they had they only shiped 18 goals, but 16 was the record set by Hansen and Co. and how come they are not known as the 'GBF'? I bet that team scored more as well as actually winning something. There also seems to a lot of hoofing the ball forward everytime there is a hint of danger. I would personally not like to revisit that. They weren't in the same league as the great Italian defences, otherwise they would of been in the Champions League year in year out. Look at Maldini and Costacurta still going. Do you think Bould and Winterburn could still do the same? As for Seaman, a great GK, but made his fair share of costly mistakes. Has Lehmann really made that many more? Also, various people have talked about how hard it was post-Chapman, and pre-Graham. Well we were never relagated for one. League, Cup, and Charity Shield in 50s. Fairs Cup, Double, 4 F.A Cup finals in the 70s. Cup Winners Cup final, League Cup, George Graham, and Anfield in 80's. Not to mention Super Mac, Liam Brady, Charlie Gearge, and 'Champagne Charlie'. Dosen't sound so hard to me! If Nikola can be accused of jumping on the 'gravy train', so can all Arsenal supporters, except those who joined in the 60's perhaps.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Alex, Man Yoo are looking for a GK as well, maybe 2. Carroll definitely and Howard has increasingly made noises that he doesn't want to be second fiddle after tasting the limelight. Is Barthez on loan to Marseille or was he sold? The good thing is that Man Yoo always buys at the high end of the market. Lehmann will go if we find another keeper. He will want 1st team minutes to fight for the German spot. Almunia is more than happy being 2nd fiddle but I would not want him as our 2nd keeper frankly. Taylor is gone probably. We will need a good understudy no matter who we get. We may be left with Almunia. Stack is having legal issues and Taylor, at 24 will probably move on to greener pastures.

Alex
April 01, 2005

American, thanks, very interesting. So are you saying that in the future, the likes of Man U could set up feeder clubs, and even have an American Man U? How come the American Soccer team is so strong if the American League is still not very good? My thoughts on the current team: A top top GK is obviuosly needed, but who? Those who suggest Frey, how many times have you seen them in action? Wenger often says that breaking into the 1st team early is a good sign of talent, and Proto has broken into the national team at 21. Toure deserves a second chance, and no one should be put in front of Senderos, so I don't think there is a real problem at CB. Toure is NOT a RB. Gone are the days when Arsenal have primarily defensive FBs. He is not a threat going forward on the right, can't cross, and is not skillful enough. Eboue looks like a real prospect. Lauren is only going to get worse, but he's not going anywhere. As I said before I cannot see who could replace Cole (Clichy still too young, and you need at least 2 players in each position, and what experienced player will play second fiddle to a 19 year old?). Ljungberg and Pires need real competition. Cole says the best player he has 'dualed' with is Joaquin, but that is highly unlikely. SWP too expensive. I also like Castelan (gave Cole a hard time in friendly), but there has been no hint of that from Wenger or Holland. I think for the long term giving Quincy, Bentley, V Persie, Aliadiere, Smith, and Lupoli (A goal a game since he arrived is a good average, but not as good as 2 a game which he had in Italy for Parma!) a real chance is best. Tony Adams has said how big an impact a team can make when a group of youngsters come through together (like Arsenal and Man U in the 90's). I saw Hleb play a number of times in the U21 Euro 2004 and he was by far the best player in the competition, far more impressive than any in the Italy team (Gilardino etc.) But Wenger has said he will not buy any more young players in that position, for that would be too disheartening to Flamini and Fabregas. A young player to look out for is Fabrice Muamba. Only 16 but already a regular in the reserves, and plays for England U17. Seen him a few times. Similar to build to Viera.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Agree about Freddie Dormouse. It was suggested Quincy may be better on the left where he can cut in on his preferred foot but we're already loaded on that side of the pitch. Reyes, Pires and Ash or Clichy in a bind. Even van Persie can play there. Who do we have on the right? Freddie, sometimes Pires and that's it. That's where Quincy comes in. Since Wiltord left, there hasn't been any real competition for the position wide right.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Bernard - it was never likely that Freddie would be effective up front. His strength is about running from the middle with other players up; if he starts up front there is nowhere for him to run from & he is much more easily picked up. I'm sure AW only played hime there because of the lack of any experienced alternative. I wouldn't want to sell Freddie, but I'm not against buying another player in that position, as I have already said. If we buy a ball carrier though, I think they need to be good enough at it to succeed against the best defenders and defences. SWP is okay against PL defences but I think he'd have to improve quite a bit to do well in Europe & he certainly didn't look the part against Holland, for whom Castelen looked much better. A pure ball carrier would also require a change in our style.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Freddie's biggest strengths is his working relationship with Henry, Pires and Vieira. To know where to be at the right time. They know when he will make a run, he knows where they expect him to make a run. That only comes from experience. Pires and Henry have that symbiotic understanding as well. He has gotten a lot of important goals for us because of that working relationship. His other strength is his bottle. Its not his on the ball skills or pace. That said, can someone with dribbling, skill and pace learn to work with Henry, Pires and Vieira similar to Freddie does? I do think no matter what we do need someone on the right either as an understudy or possibly to challenge him for the position. This player should have skills that Freddie doesn't (the aforementioned). Some games like away at Bolton, the fighting Freddie is needed. In a lot of CL games we need pace, dribbling and skill on the ball.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Sabir, as much as I hate to compare an Arsenal player to the player I probably hate the most, Lupoli does a lot of the things that were good about Sherringscum. He has that knack of being at the right place at the right time and can make the right run at the right time. He has that striker/predator brain. RVN has it to be fair. Pounce at the right time to stab in a ball. Quincy is a winger in my opinion. He can make those pacy runs, with adept dribbling at defenses like no other. Henry is about the only one on the club I see who can do that. **** Just a hunch on my part, but I think Eboue will take to RB like a duck to water. Give him a run of games and allow him to make a mistake or two and we may possibly have the next best RB in the PL.

Bernard
April 01, 2005

dormouse, surely you're not suggesting it wouldn't be better to have someone who can run into positions and do something with the ball at their feet. Fred has glaring, glaring weaknesses to his game that mean he could, and should, be improved upon. Because of these supposed strengths you name about him, some people thought he'd do a good enough job up-front. The games against Sheffield United and Bayern Munich should that to be utter rot. In my view right midfield is a position that needs strengthening as much as any in the side, and the sooner it happens, the better.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Bernard - we play a passing game where a number of players are running into positions and the ball can be passed to them at any point along that path. Not everyone can be passed to, but they all play their part in stretching the defence. Freddie's runs are particularly hard for defenders to pick up & he is good enough at it to score against even the best defences as long as there is movement in the team. A ball carrier depends on being better than the opposition defender & is ineffective if his opposite number is better (eg Ronaldo Vs Cole) & can also be marked out of the game by numbers. If the team is playing badly though, it is hard for someon with Freddie's game to turn it around on his own whereas a good enough ball carrier can.

david.d
April 01, 2005

i think because pennant is under 23 we are then entitled to some sort of compensation fee which means he doesnt go totally free, thats what i heard on the radio today....

GunGun
April 01, 2005

So, imagine we draw Bayern Munich next year in the Champions League. We travel to Munich. Will we have matured defensively? I doubt it. Do we learn our lessons? No! Why not? Is it beyond Rice and Wengers abilities to teach the art of defending? I think whoever we buy, we will not succeed in Europe because we are not coached to succeed in Europe. ButI still love Arsene.

Bernard
April 01, 2005

dormouse, you say "Freddie's threat is with his off the ball runs" and that "it is very hard to mark him out of the game". I don't think the bit I didn't copy changed the meaning of what you said. Do you think his strength is off the ball runs because he's nothing special when in possession of the ball? Because if so, you won't get much argument from me. And do you think it's very hard to mark him out the game because the opposition doesn't really need to, as when he doesn't score he doesn't get into the game very often? If so, again you won't get any argument from me. You're right with one implication though: I prefer midfield players who get on the ball a lot, and pass it accurately and creatively (when you spoke of the type of players I prefer). If I had to bet on it, I think Bentley is less likely to make it than he is to make it. But he still does those things better than Ljungberg.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Sabir - I think my point is that this season we've had a pretty good look to the defence (& reklatively good results) with Senderos+Cygan & Senderos+Toure, not very good results with Campbell+Toure & Campbell+Cygan (I think), & poor results with Cygan+Toure. I know who that makes my No 1 choice for the team. I accept that Campbell's form may have been affected by injury. Individually Cygan has played some very good matches this year & never looked worse than Toure. I don't really disagree with a new RB, but if we are to get some world class players in, we only have enough money for 2 outfielders at most - should RB be one of those two?

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Bernard - you're right that Bentley has been played wide, but he's never got out of our reserves & even had problems holding on to his position for Norwich. There's never been any sign that he has got better as a winger. His passing is not in Beckham's class &, while Beckham is not fast, he can (or used to be able to) run all day, and play in the middle and was fairly strong. The conclusion is that Bentley doesn't have much chance of making it with us. I don't wish to get into protracted discussions about Freddie's value with you because neither of us is likely to change our opinion. I think that we became a much better attacking & passing team when Overmars left & Pires & Ljunberg came to the fore. Overmars had players marking him because he carried his threat when he ran with the ball; Freddie's threat is with his off the ball runs which have to be countered with positional play rather than tight marking & it is very hard to mark him out of the game. A lot of people questioned Martin Peters value too. Like Overmars, SWP's threat is with the ball, so I suspect that is they type of player you like to see.

Sabir
April 01, 2005

Dormouse - I think it's obvious that Toure hasn't been at anywhere near the form or level he was last season. He is not great in the air considering he plays centre half and his hesitancy has cost us. At times he just looks like he doesn't know what to do! When Toure and Cygan played together it was so bad that the opposition nearly scored from any cross into our box. I'm not saying Senderos is better than Toure, in fact a fully fit Campbell and Toure are still the no.1 pairing at the back (for the time being anyway). But it's important Senderos gets a half decent run whilst we're not leaking too many goals to build up the confidence and get games under his belt. Toure plays far better with Senderos than he did with the bloke from Star Trek. What else is obvious is that Lauren also needs replacing. Maybe Toure could do the job, not sure. Eboue? He looks good but we need someone a bit bigger with more experience.

Bernard
April 01, 2005

schokolade, interesting you should say that as a couple of years ago a regular poster was going on about how we should buy Wright-Phillips, and upon interrogation (you know what I mean) said one of the reasons was him being Wright's stepson. I mocked the idea. But I do have to say that Wright-Phillips has impressed me enormously over the last eighteen months, every single time I've seen City (and not just against Arsenal), it's clear he's improved massively. Unfortunately, I think City are wanting too much money for him, but because of the extent to which he'd dramatically improve one of our weaker positions, I'd be happy to see the club pay a bit over the odds. Having said that, if Wenger can find better value (better at the same price, or as good but cheaper) elsewhere, that's even better. Dormouse, you say you 'don't think that Ljunberg's value is just about scoring goals, it is also about the threat of scoring and the opposition having to try to defend against his runs.' But to me that doesn't change the view that if he doesn't score, he generally doesn't do enough. He gets into goalscoring positions sometimes and if he scores that's great, but if he misses, his contribution is often marginal. And you don't get the opposition putting two or three men on him like they have with some of our players, like Overmars going back a few years. Aside from simple 5 to 10 yard balls to Lauren (mostly), his value to build up play is often negligible. So for me, improving right midfield is a massive priority. And if Bentley needs to play in the centre, for reasons I've explained many, many times, I doubt he'll have a career at Arsenal. As I said yesterday, all his coaches over the last three years seem to have cottoned on that he's not a central player. He has the ability to be, but not the strength. That's why, as I said, every coach he's played under during the last three years for the England age groups he's represented, Arsenal reserves, Arsenal's first team, and Norwich, have all played him in wide positions. I actually think van Persie and Aliadiere have far more chance of playing centrally for Arsenal (and there's no guarantee about them) than Bentley. Not because they're more technically gifted (they're not), but because they have more strength - yes, even Aliadiere. The main problem Bentley has in a wide position is a lack of pace, but it didn't stop Beckham having a useful career did it, and Bentley's passing from wide positions is top drawer.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Sabir - are you assuming that Toure is playing better than Senderos?

Sabir
April 01, 2005

American, personally I think Quincy might thrive in Pires' position and not on the right. He looks really good cutting in from the left but nowhere near as good on the right flank. But then we also have Ryan Smith who we'll probably see a lot more of next season competing for the same position. I also think Aliadiere should be given a few more games this year but was upset at his 'ultimatum' the other day. Even if Campbell is nearing full fitness, lets stick with Senderos until Campbell is absolutely 100% right. Lupoli is a great finisher, but like Bentley, it's the physique that's a problem at the moment.

JamesLT
April 01, 2005

NIALL: Interesting to read your plans for the site. It all sounds very positive and it's good to learn that the spirit of the forum will stay the same - albeit with some additional features. The adjustments you and Roger have already made seem good too. It looks as though the forum is in safe hands. Good luck!

AmericanGooner
Gilberto@ Returning?
April 01, 2005

Excerpt from arsenal.com: Gilberto could return to the Arsenal first-team squad for the home game with Norwich on Saturday.The Brazilian has been sidelined since mid-September with a fractured vertebrae. During the final stages of his recuperation, he was named on the bench against Bayern Munich on March 9 but that was as emergency cover. Since then he has come through three Reserve games and, though a final decision will be made on Friday morning, Arsčne Wenger sounded optimistic when he spoke exclusively to Arsenal.com on Thursday afternoon.“I don’t know yet, I will have to wait until tomorrow before making that kind of decision,” he said. “But Gilberto has had those games in the Reserves and maybe he will play.”

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Alex, I do watch some football here, but frankly, its very hard to after watching the leagues of Europe and especially the PL. As far as its future. I think it does have one. Route one is it does what ice hockey did. Win or get close to winning a major international event. Our 1980 Olympic win catapulted the sport and now we're a ice hocky power in the international competitions. If we do well in '06 the same could happen. The main problem is that in every other part of the globe football is a poor mans or workingman's sport. The sport of the masses, the every day bloke if you will. In America its a middle class sport, a sport of the suburbs. Our best athletes play gridiron, basketball and baseball. The inner city kids have to adopt it somewhat. They (and kids in the south) are the cream of our gridiron, basketball, track and field teams. If the AYSO (our youth football/soccer organization) were to start a league in just a few of the larger inner cities like NYC, Los Angeles, etc. I think we'd end up with a handful of superb footballers. At the risk of being accused of racial stereotyping on the board, football/soccer is a white, middle class, suburban sport as it stands now and we need blacks and latinos to embrace it. The Chivas situation is strange. Chivas (Guadalajara) is a Mexican football club that only buys Mexican players. No foreigners at all. So it was strange to see them set up a sister club in the states. Where the 'gringos' are despised. They will be based in Los Angeles which has a huge Mexican-American population and Chivas is widely followed by the Mexican community here. So it may be a money making opportunity for them. Charlton has set up a youth program in Arizona. Perhaps they may sponsor a club. It won't take much. For American soccer/football to expan on the club level they MUST participate in Copa Libertadores, the Americas version of the CL. Their champion plays the CL champ in that super cup competition each year. If the American champs can play and eventually beat the likes of Boca Juniors, Corinthians, Flamengo, River Plate, etc. they will not only earn the respect of other countries but will increase the viewership on television and have more Americans watching.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Aliadiere only has one more year to go on his contract. There's no point in thinking about loaning him out next season. We either start him this season to see if he is good enough & agree a contract extension or we need to look to transfer him. I'd certainly play him in as many games as possible to help get that decision right. He's not likely to want to stay at all if he isn't going to be played in the team at a reasonable frequency.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

I think SWP would be a good addition. I think we should try Quincy far right but I think if SWP is attainable. More may be expected of him than is fair to him due to his lineage but I think he's shown enough skill to make it with us and add things on the right we dont' have. Other than an odd rumor about his going to Spain (which has to be questioned because of the recent racial problems there), I haven't seen him linked to any domestic side. We could name a price and 'Citeh' (I had to Bernard, sorry) would have to take it possibly. Especially if SWP himself is pushing for the move. I think we could get him for well under 10 million. 8 million possibly. If they say no, then we move on, but leave an unsettled player with them. Its Chelsea-esque I know but may be worth it. As I have stated though, I still think Quincy should be tried wide right. I still maintain that he could be a 'Ronaldo' type player for us. **** Regarding Cole, does any one remember how long they were supposedly in the room? Longer than 5 or 10 minutes would strengthen Cole's version of things. A half hour or an hour would suggest both parties were well aware who was going to be there. **** I've never understood the Pennant sold for 3 mil rumors since the January transfer window has closed and he was out on a free in the summer anyway. I'm a bit saddened by him. I was hoping to see him get some minutes in the first half of the season. I was saddened to hear of him drinking and driving. I don't think he'd be able to handle 'success' even if he had done better on the pitch. **** I'll have to add Hleb to my growing list of players that I have to keep an eye on. We get a fair amount of Stuttgart games for our bundesliga game as well as all the highlights.

AmericanGooner
April 01, 2005

Nial, Rob, Roger, great ideas and thanks for your hard work. Don't be afraid to request any volunteer help, etc. from us on the board. Whatever I can do, which may not be much, I will. By the way there is only ONE AmericanGooner (thank God! you say? ; ) so no one try to register my screen name. Do not be fooled by cheap imitations! **** Nico, I like the idea of Dafoe coming to us, but Spurs would never allow it. Dafoe would have to push for it, if we made a bid but they would price him out of the market. Dafoe has done it at West Ham and at Spurs. He'll flourish in our side. I'd be up for loaning Aliadiere out for half a season. West Ham if they don't get promoted. Keep in him London, close to home. Maybe one of the promoted sides but that side would have to plan on using him regularly.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Some people have wondered how we can get a fee for Pennant. I assume that this is because of the regulations about the transfer of young players. The original club is entitled to a fee, even if the player is out of contract, as a reward for training them. As I understand it the fee involved is not the Ł3m quoted, but Ł500k with various extras that might bring it up to Ł3m if onditions are met. No doubt Birmingham will have to put Ł3m through their books.

'schokolade' Gooner
April 01, 2005

A little bit on football before I vamoose. Am I the only one who has serous reservations about this whole SWP thing? I have to say that I think that a lot of SWP hooha is driven by an entirely understandable desire on the part of some fans to see the son (step-son actually but no matter) of a former Arsenal hero recreate some of the past glories of his dad in an Arsenal shirt in this era. Now football is all about romance but I fear that some of our fans are getting carried away. SWP is not worth the sort of money that City are going to demand for him, IMHO. Personally I feel that if we have the kind of money that is being mentioned in relation to SWP… I’d spend it on someone like Joaquin of Betis. That’s my humble opinion. Cheers all. Goodnight…. … … … PS.. the 9y/o Brazilian kid in the link posted on here looks to have Maradona-like talent.

Mee
April 01, 2005

Gaz/: Very interesting stadium piece - goes some way to explaining why the costs are so high. Nico: I am a big fan of Defoe’s too, his performances earlier this season were really impressive. The quality of the goal he scored against us at WHL this season was overlooked because of the bizzare nature of that particular derby game. Had it been the only goal in the game it might have been given the credit it deserved. He also has incredibly quick feet and would seem to be the ideal player to benefit from our slick interpassing around the edge of the box. We might be obliged to accept Owen as part of the Reyes deal, I would be far happier if Defoe was joining us, although he seems commited to Spurs and Jol’s blueprint for the future.

chocolate gooner
April 01, 2005

God must be having a larfff this week. Paul Wolfowitz becomes head of the World Bank, John R. Bolton is nominated as US ambassador to the UN… and Niall becomes the Forum’s moderator. Phew!!… Next week The Rev Ian Paisley might well become the new Pope. Congratulations Niall, you’ve got a hell of a job on your hands but my main worry is this: given your Maggo-like ability to bang your head against even the simplest of ideas, won’t you just end up deleting a whole bunch of entirely innocent posts (Just asking). And even more importantly… what will happen to all those posts that are less than respectful of the inter-galactic talent that is D. Duff Esq.? Not to mention John O’Shea…. I fear my days are numbered on the forum…. Just kidding. On a more serious note, I think that you are taking on a hell of a job. You, Rob K and Roger are custodians of unique and remarkable legacy. I wish you guys all the best. Good Luck. Cheers…. … … … … … … Jeez, who would have thought it possible… that a so-called Arsenal fan would object to the reminisces of other Arsenal fans who have had the pleasure (and the considerable pain, I might add) of following the Arsenal through the years. What sort of dim wit can fail to enjoy reading those posts? I have read through must of the nostalgic contributions and not only did I find them thoroughly entertaining but also quite informative as well… especially since some of them managed to convey the passion that most of the posters on here have for the club as well as how much the whole Arsenal experience means to them. I must say that I found Tony C’s contribution particularly moving. So Nikola I’m sorry but you’re a fool. No offence. Cheers.... ... ... ... ... ... The more things change, the more they remain the same. Daz’s posts are still ill informed, ignorant and just plain silly. Zeitgeist warrior??? Woooah missus! Nikola is the new Dr. Who... me thinks. You’ve got to laugh. Btw Daz, chocolate in German is ‘shokolade’… get it right. And sadly… the utterly shameless Decaf is still furiously brown nosing… afraid of saying any thing that might upset his master. Question: is it right to keep pets on this forum? I only ask because Decaf has now clearly chosen to replace Burnley the cat as Daz’s pet. Can someone please give Decaf a bowl of Pedigree Chum… or something. Cheers all. Goodnight.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Nico - agree with most of your comments about our strikers & potential signings. Also agree that we need someone who could be a lead striker who could genuinely share TH's burden. But I do think that the choice affects/is affected by who we have in MF. I'd certainly give Aliadiere a go in the team before letting him go because he might be very good; he should certainly be a lot stronger now than he was. Not sure about maturity with Reyes; he was very good for a while & is certainly good enough to play for us if he can get back to that form; at one stage he was ahead of TH in goals scored though AW didn't expect him to stay there; I suspect it is more general issues that can affect someone at any age, though people are more vulnerable when young. Lupoli is the sort of person who could come in and make a big impact at any age/time, though a lot of players score a lot in the reserves and never make anything in the 1st team; we have to forgive his 45 minute freeze. There's not many suitable players out there - look at Chelski, they had infinite money & got Kezman & Drogba. The problem is that if we get a pure striker, then we lose our creativity or force Henry into being a provider or get more creativity in central MF (would have to be Cesc). We could do this without Henry - for instance RVN+Andrew Johnson+SWP to provide crosses would give us a lot of options - but I don't think RVN or SWP would add much to Henry (Johnson might but he would hardly be an equal partner). I don't think France has ever found a satisfactory solution to this problem.

Mee
April 01, 2005

Gaz/Daz: Rocastle himself was said to be in tears when he heard the news about leaving and in truth he was never the same player again. I seem to recall him being sidelined for a period with the knee injury, after which there were doubts that he would re-discover his earlier form. A series of brilliant displays, culminating with a sublime goal (I think at Old trafford) removed any doubts and he was once again selected for England. My favourite goal, for its context, rather than its quality was the Littlewoods cup game at WHL.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Runmor about Kameni, who wouldn't be the worst GK signing we could make - http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=266379&lid=2&cpid=23&title=Lotina+fears+Kameni+exit&channel=Football_Home

Nico
April 01, 2005

I forgot to mention Aliadiere. Obvious questionmarks over his physical condition, strength and vulnerability to injury. No questionmarks over his pace and technique, a brilliant prospect who can also clearly stand up to be counted. He is mature and responsible and I like him a lot, but maybe it's unfair, after all this bad luck to try him out again and risk failure. I'd say clear the decks for a new, sturdier guy, and let young Jeremie go.

Nico
April 01, 2005

Niall, no probs, mate, just having a larf, as usual. dormouse, I think maturity and attitude towards responsibility is key here. If you take Fabregas as an example, here is a case of 'if you're good enough, you're old enough.' He looks from a distance as a mature, experienced footballer who takes responsibility for his role in the team. Senderos too will soon look the part and so will Flamini. Reyes, on the other hand, needs to grow up and wise up. So does Van Persie. And Quincy, while seemingly audacious, needs to show consistency. What I'm saying is that the bloke we get has to be mature as well as good enough technically and physically. Bentley may be good enough, but physically Wenger feels he's lacking. Owen is mature but technically may be lacking for us, as you and many others have pointed out. Physically, too, maybe on the injury prone side and too risky. RVN was an idea I mentioned the other day, a good leader and taker of responsibility, but aside from question-marks being raised by his latest injury (and notwithstanding his enormous unpopularity which as Cannon Balls pointed out was, in the case of Supermac, converted very quickly into instant hero worship on the North Bank after a debut hat trick against the barcodes), I don't think he's good enough technically for Wenger - his first touch doesn't seem quite right, don't you think? Defoe, on the other hand I see as both mature, in that he consistently takes responsibility (or shows leadership), and is technically and physically excellent, so I see no problem with him except maybe price/availability, though Wenger may, like you, differ with me on him. Martins maybe? Who mknows? Anyway I reckon Arsene will wait for a while longer before deciding who to go for, but for me it has to be first and foremost a chap who can share Titi's burden without pissing him off.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Well, the truth is clearly a greater threat to the footballing authorities, dublin.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

On colegate, I have massive respect for those who can still believe that he will prove to be innocent, but it's more than I can do at the moment. Would love to be proved wrong. I remember that at the beginning everyone, including Cole, essentially denied that it had happened & that AW avoided the possibility of Cole lying to him directly (or of knowing the truth) by not asking him the question. You don't persuade someone by unexpectedly appearing in force from behind a curtain and doing a 'Come to us, Money, Money, Money' routine. You do persuade someone of the genuineness and suitability of an offer by appearing in force by arrangement & responding to questions and requests directly rather than through an agent.

dublin gooner
April 01, 2005

mourinho fined Ł9000 and two match touchline ban. what? wenger was fined Ł15,000 for comments about RvN. what is the deal? i think we would all agree that telling the truth (wenger) and plainly lying (mourinho) are two very different things, well apparently the truth merits a larger fine.

Nico
April 01, 2005

Daz, if you're still there lurking, have you seen Maria. Full of Grace, and if so, what's it like?

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 01, 2005

Daz-Thanks for that info. I see GG's point but personally I'd still have kept him even if it meant he couldnt play a full season. Actually, considering he was replaced by a combination of Jimmy Carter and Eddie McGoldrick I'd of played him if he had one leg! Come on Arsenal.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Nico - I think the issue of how to replace Dennis is a massive one for us. Our whole style is designed to maximise Henry's effectiveness and I think that who we go for will depend on what style(s) we intend to use. If I remember, there were a couple of posts on this before the very sad news (one from me). I think that this also has an impact on our central MF & both wide MF positions too - it's a question of the whole blend. A lot depends on who we keep out of Reyes, Vieira, Edu, Pires & Ljunberg. My tendency would be to try to keep as much of the current system as possible but to buy a striker who offers something different as an alternative to Henry (though they may play toegether more or less of the time). One example of a different style would be RvN - he & Henry could play together (probably with Henry mainly supplying), and he would bring a different avenue of attack (with or without Henry) but he'd be better off the field if our pacy attack was on form because he'd just get in the way then. If we had him, then we would also want MFs that could play to his strengths as well as Henry's. I'm obviously not suggesting that we buy RvN or a player like him, but just using him as an example of how complex I think the issues are. Van Persie has potential, but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that he would work particularly well with Henry (or that he wouldn't), but he does have a way to go to establish himself as being good enough to be a regular starter.

Niall
April 01, 2005

He he Nico, very good. No need to fear sticking your neck out I don't bite, from behind the screen anyway. It's basically if anyone finds it offensive they have a means of complaint. For example, I find those old Oirish jokes so poor that they are an insult to humour. They got to go ;)

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 01, 2005

Actually, now I'm thinking about it, if you had to choose a side made out of players who played in George Graham and Arsene Wengers Arsenal sides what would it be? Mine would be: Seaman, Dixon, Sansom, TA6, SC23, Rocky Rocastle, PV4, Emanuelle Petit, Marc Overmars, DB10 and TH14. Subs would be: IWWW, John Lukic, Paul Davis, Anders Limpar and Martin Keown. I'm pleased with that side although I've definately left some great players! Come on Arsenal.

Daz
April 01, 2005

To be fair, Gaz B\Wood, a fairly reliable source told me that Graham was gutted to sell Rocky who he loved but knew that his injury was going to seriously restrict his future appearances. And post-Arsenal Rocky was indeed never the same and plagued by knee problems. This may or may not be true but it has some plausibility since George was a big fan of Rocky's.

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 01, 2005

Not had a proper look at forum today so I dont know if its been mentioned that its 4 years to the day that the great Rocky Rocastle passed away. Its even more poingant considering the debate on our right-hand side as, in his prime he would have walked into our present first eleven. Of all the poor decisions George Graham made (1992-1995!) his one to sell Rocky is the one that to this day still rankles with me most. Not only was he a fantastic player but he was a seriously nice bloke too, and its a terrible shame that he was taken from us so early. I'm just glad that I got to see him in his prime at Arsenal and without a doubt he'd make my all-time Arsenal 11. On a lighter note for all those interestend in the New Stadium heres a link to an interesting little piece I found on ANR: http://www.anr.uk.com/articles/i-2005-03-30-18-17-45.html Come on Arsenal.

Daz
April 01, 2005

Doner wanna go on about it, Nico, but you've got a great sense of houmus. Still, tsatsiki for me to say isn't it?

Cannon Balls
April 01, 2005

Matt,i don't recall you posting before but then i guess that your rantings are rather easily forgetable. After ludicrously accusing me of posting hate filled nonsense about Chelsea you then go into one yourself about Germany!. Practice what you preach pal. You may think that my views on Chelsea are hate-filled i think yours about Germany are - so shut up. And if you don't like my posts then don't read them, perhaps the truth in them is what you really hate and want to try and suppress???. Come on BM !!!.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Bernard, I don't think that Ljunberg's value is just about scoring goals, it is also about the threat of scoring and the opposition having to try to defend against his runs. It has also frequently been the case that he has scored when our 'regular' channels aren't getting through. I have no problem with us buying another type of player for the RW, though I don't see it as a priority, but don't see SWP adding a great deal; I don't think that he is really worth much more than Ł5m. If I was going for the same sort of player as SWP, I'd rather go for Castelen. We need to look for a player in the same class as Robben, especially if we lose Reyes, and don't see SWP as having that potential. Quincy may be as good (might even be better in the end) than SWP, but is at least 1 and probably 2 years behind him in development. If Bentley is really to have a future in our 1st team, then I think it need to be in the centre (possibly the DB position) as I don't see him having any of the specialist qualities needed of a winger at the level we would need; but the probability is that he is not quite good enough for us.

Nico
April 01, 2005

Daz, thank you for your kind and supportive words, mate, cos until you spoke up for me, I was scared stiff of sticking my neck out and saying that the latest rules appear to have been deliberately designed with an extremely anti-Greek bias in mind and have a distinctly opportunistic flavour to them. Firstly loads of things can still be said to offend me without containing swearwords and they get to remain in print. For example people could still get away with saying things like Greece plays pony football and won the Euro's by sheer fluke. I mean how can a bunch of ouzo-swilling, olive-grinding, flea-ridden greasy slobs have pulled one over everyone else so unfairly last summer and get to stay Euro champions for the next three years? We woz done by a Trojan horse, or was it a goat? Yet as soon as I so much as sit up on my donkey and prepare to yell 'Rehaggel for Arsenal' or perhaps 'Rehaggel for Arsenal's defence whilst Wenger can coach the attack', I find myself in severe trouble at the hands of that pc mob on here (of which I'm also an associate member) that reckons Wenger is beyond any form of criticism whatsoever. Then if someone tries to typecast me as a platesmasher or a tout and I so much as dream of objecting from my pc's in Greece, I get blanked out on the basis of having exceeded my maximum quota of Internet Protocol's. Sheeesh kebab, I ask you, where is justice? 400 years of Turkish rule? Bring it back! Cheers.

Daz
April 01, 2005

No problem, goonerguru, Torquemada gained some infamy for his persuasive techniques during the Spanish inquisition. And zeitgeist is one of those great German words for which there is no single English equivalent but means 'being part of the spirit or the attitude of the time'. Nikola with his/her insistence on the contemporary, backed up by an impressive command of txt language and a disdain for "boring" topics(LOL :-) seemed very deserving of the epithet. Schadenfreude is another good one (meaning 'enjoying the suffering of others') and the less common chocolateshaften (which basically means 'give chocolate a good kicking whenever you get bored'). Anything else you want to know, feel free to ask but I frown on the petty-bourgeois, truegooner, so not much point asking me about Scrabble.

dormouse
April 01, 2005

Niall, Roger - Very happy to see proposals for the forum going forward. I agree completely with Eskimo's excellent post. The only (slight) concern I have is about expansion and the possibility of diluting the Forum as it is. I have a lot of repect for most(all?) of the regular posters, whatever subject they post on, because of the depth of knowledge, thought & passion for Arsenal and I wouldn't like to see expansion reduce the quality of posts. Something like the PtG experience is the norm on many boards. About IPs - I use a number of ISPs & therefore have different IPs at different times, depending on who I have logged on with. I assume that you can check the registrations to make sure that all regulars keep their names; I've got quite used to mine. One other point - I use Opera set at 150% (so I can read it easily) & the posting page is a bit too big to fit on my screen, meaning I need to scroll to press the post button; if I set it to 100%, then the posting area occupies a tiny proportion of the screen. A posting button at the side or top would work better for me (though I know my setup will be unusual). I have no problems with the main page - well centred and jsutified.

Bernard
April 01, 2005

Decaf, it's even more to do with if he doesn't score, Ljungberg rarely has a good game. Midfielders should be quite capable of not scoring and playing well, rather than the merit of their performance being very largely correlated to whether they got a goal.

goonerguru
April 01, 2005

Daz,I have to admit most of your posts go straight over the top of my head I don't understand many of the words you use(Turquemada and Zeitgeist) but I am sure that if I could understand them they would be very enjoyable,just out of interest what is your top score at Scrabble?

Daz
April 01, 2005

Sure, Niall, you KNOW you can rely on me to stay on the right side of common sense and decency and avoid national stereotyping whatever that plate-smashing, beard-scratching, SIM card-retailing Zorba or sheep-shagging Kiwi have to say on the subject. Far be it from me to make life more difficult and I wasn't of course really puzzled by your common-sense strictures, so need to throw a nail bomb or bring in the parades commisssion!! And a belated Happy Easter - have a great big bunch of cyber-lilies from me.

Niall
April 01, 2005

Hey Daz, sure with good friends like yourself my "job" will be a pleasure, I'm pretty confident of that. Anyway, to ensure your nose isn't put out of joint any further, as Decaf said (thanks Decaf) I think you missed the point so I'll just re-iterate it for you once again. The forum will be largely self-moderating which as I explained earlier means that foul language will be asterixed out so that I don't have to go into the file and remove the postings - which Steve used to do as you know from the past. Basically, the forum should run as normal, I'm not here on a power trip although you seem to imply that is what you are thinking (or perhaps thats my poor subtle reading of subtext shining through) but as is on most forums, over the top abuse, racial and national stereotyping designed to offend anyone (including me) and any other complaints you or anyone else may have about a posting can and will be looked at and possibly removed. As I suggested, it is up to you to decide what you think will fall into those categories. Basically, we want to encourage people to see this as an Arsenal website they will want to contribute to, both new and old. Cheers.

Daz
April 01, 2005

Especially the forum's zeitgeist warrior Nikola, of whose gender I'm still a little dubious. Still, I make her/him right and would further suggest that nobody discuss any games longer than say a month ago in order not to alienate any "new fans" who might be put off by such beard-tugging (think Nico knows who I'm talking about) behaviour.

Daz
April 01, 2005

I think the words you're searching for are "naturally self-deprecating sunny disposition" actually, decaf stuck out there as you are, nursing your own considerable Id/aura in the veld. I'm in a very good mood actually so will try not to offend anybody as per Niall's excellent moderation (and it must be said who better than Niall to moderate an argument). Let's face it though, some people are easily offended - supposing chocolate decides that it's "xenophobic" to knock one of the five best CBs in the country or "racialist" to insist that he avoids arguments like: a) no deal involving Owen can be favourable. b) If it is favourable it is inconceivable. Eskimo: I KNOW you were referring to me as one of your less favoured posters (after I gently questioned your predilection for roly-poly-oly-oh or whatever it's called) but I'm still intrigued as to what somebody below referred to your parents as Mrs and Mrs Eskimo. Given such parentage you might be a nieghbour of mine since Stoke Newington abounds with ladies of alternative sexual preferences (hope that doesn't offend anybody).

Matt
April 01, 2005

Cannon Ball...your postings are often a lot of hate-ridden non-sense. I would not condemn the content of other posters in your position. You are blinded by your Chelsea hate. We all dislike Chelsea but you have gone nuts about the subject.Ref: Beckenbauer and UEFA. Do you know that Leonard Johanssen the present UEFA boss recently received the German cross of merit by the German Interior secretary. What for??? Because he is a friend of Germany`s was the official statement. Now why should the UEFA boss be the friend of a particular country?How can his referees be neutral. I guess Johanssen is paving the way for Beckenbauer. Remember how England and South Africa tried to get the World Cup 2006. Who got it in the end? Der Kaiser through all his behind-the scene wrangling.Old Bobby Charlton did not stand a chance and Englands pathetic bid collapsed early on. The competition should have gone to South Africa but Germany knew how to buy the votes. You probably have all forgotten this or are not interested as it is old news. But the fact remains: the Kaiser and UEFA are a terrible combination of bent footballing powers that put Abramovic to shame

Decaf
April 01, 2005

Daz, your ego is getting so big that even the most innocuous projectiles are crashing into it. Of course you have an inalienable right to bash Chocolate (if not, the UN better get working). Niall simply means that you are not allowed to use blunt instruments and four letter words, and when Niall choses, the word 'b0ll0cks'. This is all covered by the Geneva convention, which extends, if not to chocolate himself, at least to polution generated in de-chocolating activities. Clear? (Only joking about the ego ha ha. I'm sure I meant the id or aura or something like that.)

Decaf
April 01, 2005

Interesting stats, Mickey. I suppose Bernard would say that when Fred does get a chance he is usually fairly close in, although I guess this would apply to some of the others on the list, particularly strikers. I also suppose this indicates, TH and AJ aside, this has been a very bad season for strikers. Come on boys, you're making Wayne Rooney look good, and for E*G's sake there are even two Spurs players in the top five.

Daz
April 01, 2005

Don't mean to make your job more difficult, Torquemada, sorry,...Niall... but I'm all at sea now. It's kind of my life mission to try and offend chocolate at every possible opportunity. That's not allowed? If I think it might offend him I shouldn't post it? Dan fink so, star. But I'm admiring your new 'chief moderator' tone - it's all very serious chez Niall at the moment - the bap is very wised. I hope you'll still allow yourself to get enmeshed in one of your favoured protracted debates (Grimandi is rubbish) where you demonstrate that flexibility of mind and subtle reading of subtext that's kind of become your trademark and allowed you to make a lot of good friends along the way...

Roger
April 01, 2005

Hi - I saw the post on the centering problem before - I see the text centered perfectly, left justified, and within a table to correctly center it at all resolutions - Can you send me a screen shot of what you see please ?

Sabir
April 01, 2005

It's been an odd couple of weeks being a Gooner and especially a 'Gleiber Gooner'. With the team out of action for a while and the passing of Mr Gleiber, the mood's been strange and I haven't kept up with the forum in the normal way. Just skimmed through the posts and I was delighted to read about the possible upgrades to the site. Niall, Rob and Roger you have my support and thanks. Couldn't believe Nikola's post! Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion but to try and get rid of Arsenal memories off a board like this is absurd. Owen had a stinker last night but I still think he'd be good for us as long as we get a decent fee on top of the swap. Mee, Lehmann has been a bit of a scapegoat but there's no doubt that his form this season has declined considerably. I want a replacement in the summer and I hope AW finally chooses a good goalie. I'll be there on Saturday, so glad international week is over - the boredom has been excruciating. Finally Ljungberg should be kept in the squad. Sometimes he does look pants. But we shouldn't forget how much he has contributed in the last few years and still is, in terms of getting vital goals. He's not exactly old either so it would be cool to keep him, unless we get a really big bid. And Cole can go as far as I'm concerned. Get a transfer fee whilst we can. Come on Arsenal.

Cannon Balls
April 01, 2005

Roger,just one thing someone else mentioned it the type on the screen is not central any chance that it can be rectified?.

MickeySloan
April 01, 2005

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=266071&CPID=8&CLID=3&lid=&title=Premiership's+most+clincal+finisher&channel=Premiership

Roger
March 31, 2005

Hi - If your IP address changes a bit, that's fine - A direct lookup can be done - it may only pose a problem if you change country regularly.

Darren
March 31, 2005

Niall - Chief moderater eh? Do you REALLY know what you're letting yourself in for???? Also, re: IP addresses. I use different computers at various times, so I assume my IP address changes with it, right? If that's the case how will it affect my posting, or won't it if we need to log-in.

Nouveau Soccer
March 31, 2005

Ralph, re Hleb. Gee, I'm not sure Arsene should go for him if he's only worth his weight in gold. Figure he weighs in at about 180 lbs (tops i'd think). Gold is trading at $426 an oz. That makes Hleb worth just under $1.3 million (which comes in at under Ł700,000 at today's exchange rate). If he's worth that, it means no one is willing to pay more for him. Which puts him on a par with oh, say, Stepanovs. Funny to think that Steps is worth his weight in gold. Thierry, by the way, comes in at around $20,000 an ounce. Well pricier than gold or any other precious metal I can think of, but falls short of diamonds. The average diamond geezer is worth something north of $600 million.

Roger
March 31, 2005

Hi All - A few things * Yes - IP checking will be automatic - Ip addresses, ranges, usernames, even whole countries can be banned * For posters who want to fool about after they have been banned, it can be set to make the page very slow, graphics very large, posts not updated, etc .. - There are many toys available. * No one will have to login with a username and password if they don't want - the forum page will be just as many clicks away as it is now. * You will be able to have a picture of something next to your post (an avatar which the board will provide) or you can upload a picture of yourself. Also, a calendar function will be available showing birthdays, Arsenal games, etc .. - For the most part, it is likely Niall will be the head moderator - So be nice to him ;-) - All posts can be archived so they are not lost yet the page will load faster. Regards - Rog

Cannon Balls
March 31, 2005

If SWP is the player that Wenger needs on the right side of MF and the inevitable high price-tag that will be attached to him when we come shopping is the stumbling block, then perhaps an exchange deal and the sale of want-away Jose could facilitate the deal?. It's unlikely that Wenger will be able to persuade Reyes to stay - his silver tongued eloquence failed to persuade Anelka, Overmars, and AW's protegee Petit to remain at Highbury when the lure of La Liga beckoned them. Neither was it responsible for Vieira staying when he finaly declined to join the Perez Madrid Circus Of Show-Boaters. We should get what we can cash-wise for Reyes; who in any case has not lived up to expectations, going to ground too easily when tackled and embarrassingly far too often looking for cheap free-kicks. This is a waste of time because we rarely score from free kicks anyway - and all it does is to disrupt the flow of our game from which we score the majority of our goals. Some new options are needed next season and a run of games for RVP in our remaining games in this one. We still have a lot to play for.

Niall
March 31, 2005

Eskimo, thanks for that opinion which makes a lot of sense. Any other opinions on Your Shout?

Niall
March 31, 2005

Juliano - No hard questions!!! Em, if that scenario arises then Roger should be able to check the IP's . A few of you have already given out email address for the book for Steve, we could use this to find out who is the legitimate Juliano/Steve Martin/Daz and who is masquerading in their place. With it being on a database any eijits can be easily deleted.

Romford Gooner
March 31, 2005

Good shout Niall re the website. I look forward to seeing the results in a little while. I had a little chuckle to myself at the facility to send private messages to certain people, I can already picture EEG and Choccy meeting up for a cappucino on Upper St to discuss their views as we speak!!

Juliano
March 31, 2005

Thanks for providing us with the info Niall, and thanks to Roger for putting the effort in. One question : will there be an IP checking to make sure that the "regulars" can register their usual handles? I know there aren't many dummies on here, but one can imagine someone registering known names just to take the piss.

Niall
March 31, 2005

Steve, Daz - Roger has been responsible for all the coding changes so far, so all thanks for that are due to him. I'll be helping out with updating links etc in the next few weeks but the huge majority of upgrading the forum work was done by Roger. Daz, filters will be hardcoded - basically bad language. "Offensive postings to some" are still offensive postings at the end of the day and will likely be removed. If you think something might be offensive then - don't post it and you won't be upset if your post is removed. Basically, the hope is that the forum will be self moderating the majority of times, because both Rob and I have better things to do with our time than constantly cleaning out the forum.

MickeySloan
March 31, 2005

At the end of the day Harmony can be the difference between teams at the top level. We need to have positive feed back all the time as we saw last season. The team that played before the Man U game was pretty much the same afterwards and yet we went on that negative run. The point is Reyes needs to go. I hate to say it but Ashley does too. Okay hes a great left back but we should take the money and go with Clichy. The differences between them at the end of the season aren't that great.Both can score the odd goal but it's not like Ashley takes corners or free kicks.... 10-0

Eskimo
March 31, 2005

Pennant's just been released.

Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
March 31, 2005

Since Mr Wenger’s arrival Arsenal have become a footballing team. Even our keepers are encouraged it seems to dribble upfield. If we had JOHN “have it!” TERRY at Highbury, would he be as effective? Mr Wenger would presumably ask him to enjoy the ball at his feet and this would then cause him to distribute badly like CAMPBELL. Perhaps a word in Sol’s shell-like to kick the ball a distance in all circumstances may give us our title back!

Eskimo
March 31, 2005

Niall - it all sounds good and exciting. The only thing I don't like is the 'your shout' idea. I haven't seen the Arsenal World one, but if certain members are going to have a seperate section to sum up their veiws (which is what I assume you mean), then everyone will want to do it. Also, no offence to anyone on here (and I'm sure you'll all deny it), but I can imagine that the people who are picked for the Your Shout section might get a tad big-headed and feel like they are in charge and their veiws count the most. There should be no heirarchy. Everyone is equal and everyone should post their views on the same place and in the same way as everyone else (although if you want to cord off PTG and Nikola so we don't have to read their rubbish I won't complain!). I read every post on here (maybe not always in full if they're long) and I know who's opinion I respect and who's I don't. I pay more attention to some people's post and read others' disinterestedly, knowing beforehand that it probably won't finish without a mention of Chocolate or Ljungberg or something else. Everyone has their own veiw on who posts sense and who posts nonsense and no one needs to know what's what because it's very easy to scroll past the ones you don't like and find the ones you do like. It's fine like that. Or at least that's what I think. Keep up the good work anyway. PTBAG.

steve martin
swmartin@ ntlworld.com
March 31, 2005

Niall, good work with the site. Should you need any help, please feel free to ask. You might need to get me up to speed at first, but I'm a quick learner and if I can assist you or Rob in any labourious tasks that are time consuming, I'm here...

Daz
March 31, 2005

Okey dokey, big shout going out to Niall. Thanks for doing all of that you big Fenian gobshite - will the new filters be able to cope with phrases like "lost on penalties" and "Oliver Cromwell" which are only offensive to some?

Mee
March 31, 2005

Am I alone in thinking we should stick with Jens next season while we continue to search for an adequate long-term replacement? Granted he has made a few mistakes this season, but his performances over the last couple of seasons have been exceptionally good. He doesn‘t stand comparison with Cech, but quite honestly who does? I feel the guy has been made a scapegoat for errors made by the defence as a unit, his recent performances with a more solid defence in front of him, bear this out. We seem able to grant Reyes endless opportunities to prove his worth and yet castigate Jens for a couple, albeit crucial, mistakes.I also admire his determination to fight for his place, a quality which also impressed Wenger .

Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
March 31, 2005

Re: Alexander Hleb I copied his name into google once and in a game report it appears he is a no.10 and takes Stuttgart’s free kicks. Wonder if he can take a corner which does not hit the first defender. If so, he will be worth his weight in gold. Only Van Bommel has demonstrated the skill to regularly reach the 6-yard box this year.

Nico
March 31, 2005

On Ljungberg, I go with Rich and others in that I feel he should stay as a member of the squad to be used by Wenger in appropriate circumstances. He knows the Club well, is an experienced player and has much to offer. But someone with pace and creative flair should be purchased for that side of midfield this summer without a shadow of doubt and this someone should be a 'finished article' in my view. I do not go with American's suggestion that Quincy can play there, but I may be wrong. He could, I guess, be tried out there in the close season, and if he shows promise, he could have a few more cracks at it next season. Even so, he would be cover for a more experienced and tried and tested player in which context Castelen does seem an option but there must surely be others too if SWP is too expensive for us or not moving yet from City.

Niall
The New Forum
March 31, 2005

Guys, Roger has asked me to give you all an update on the future plans for the forum which will hopefully be going "live" in the next couple of weeks. As some of you already know, Steve had plans to update the website but unfortunately was too ill to progress with the idea, so over the past few weeks Roger has put in a huge effort to modernise the forum and bring it up to 21st century standards. Having seen the basic layout of the new forum offline I can confirm that it is a great improvement to what we have at the moment. Basically, the general idea is to maintain the current "look and feel" of the Arsenal Supporters Forum (which is the heart and soul of the website) and the Rumour Mill, whilst adding extra features to the experience which we hope will see the current community (I'd guess around 30 "hardcore" posters with maybe 40 posting on a regular basis also ) expand in the future. Ideally we want to make the website grow and become more popular without losing its attraction to its current user base. The current layout of both forums will remain unchanged, I'm sure you will all be happy to hear that, with most of the upgrading/updating going to the home page and many of the links off that which are currently out of date or in some cases not really required anymore. I'll be looking into providing updated links and Arsenal history pages on the home page over the next few weeks. Anyway, onto the main changes. Basically the forum will now include many of the features you usually see on more modern forums. That will include the ability to register with the website by submitting a user name and password to the new database of registered users. Once you have registered you will be able to avail, if you wish, of services such as adding contacts for email/private message etc etc. I'll be able to give more details on this service once I've had a good look around it. Furthermore, as many other forums do, we will be introducing a "karma points" facility where those who log in and post will see each post of theirs added to a post count. Within this post count there then opens up different levels which you eventually progress through until you reach the top level. This adds a bit more fun to the experience and also distinguishes the more frequent poster from the new people we hope to attract. Of course, there will be rules governing this, so that idiots like PTG can't just come in and flood the board with irrelevant claptrap to "post boost". Otherwise, if you do not wish to get involved in any of the new functions, you can still view and post to the forum without registering. Of course this will mean your post count will always remain at 0. The choice is yours. Moreover, the board will more or less self moderating which is great news because currently it is not a pleasant experience having to delete postings I can tell you!! There will be bad language filters hard coded into the set up and any naughty boys who like to swear frequently will find there isn't much point cos they will be asterixed out without the need for them to be physically removed. Rob, Roger and I will continue to moderate the forum basically looking at "abuse"; "racial stereotyping"; "post boosting" and any complaints that may be forwarded to us to look into it. I'll be speaking to Rob so we can set up moderator guidelines that will help us moderate the board fairly and consistently. If the board expands greatly which is the aim, it is likely that we'll approach some other forum users to help out with this role. Other new facilities are there for moderators only that makes it very easy for us to IP check users and catch out all those posters under aliases that cause such disruption on the board. The additions really do add more to the experience. However, we are also looking for ideas for improvements and additions we can make to the entire website so please if you have any suggestions please contact one of us and we'll give it some thought. For example, I was thinking of approaching a few of the more frequent posters to provide a Your Shout Column (such as is on Arsenal World) that we could do maybe once a month. Any volunteers for this let me know...Hope this all sounds good to everyone, please let us know about any reservations or ideas you may have to improve the forum and I'll paragraph this long post out this evening as I appreciate it is quite long to read. Any questions just shout.

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