Steve Gleiber's Arsenal Supporters Forum

SF Gooner
April 09, 2005

How can god bless America when we put out crap like Brittney Spears and Christina Aguilera and dingbats like Paris Hilton become stars. I'm sorry eagle, but he's not blessin nothing over here.

American Eagle
April 09, 2005

All the malice and hatred in this forum directed at another London club makes it easier for me to understand how "hooliganism" originated in England. God Bless America!

N5er
April 09, 2005

Dogbite you say that “regardless of Roman’s investment, Chelsea generated more revenue than any club in the world aside from Man United, Real Madrid and AC Milan last year.” Yes but please also be aware that this turnover was distorted by non direct football type revenue of at least 40M - this coming from travel business (25M in 2003) and hotel/restaurants/nite club/health club (15M in 2003) These have also been identified as loss making businesses in the business model adopted by the new regime. In anycase I am not certain that turnover is the best guide to judging financial wealth. Traditionally Gate Receipts, Sponsorship and Broadcasting have been the main earners. I’ll stick with my thoughts that your sponsorship won’t be increasing by any more than 5M max. (btw if you have evidence that the 25M wont be paid by the club please divulge) broadcasting (and prize monies) will depend on how far you go in the CL (don’t forget getting to the semi finals was included for last years total) and you are obviously more in the know than me regarding your capacity being increased, but even so this 8k(?) increase is unlikely to generate more than 10M (15M) max. So even if I revise my earlier guesstimate from 25M to (say) 40M this will still not see you making much headway to solving your loss making position of some 90M (last year) Irregardless whilst Roman intends funding the shortfall you will no doubt be ok. As for resentment with regard (Romans) wealth (please don’t mistake it for your Clubs) perhaps it’s a two way street? Can’t ever remember the Chelsea fans invading our internet space before your sugar daddy turned up and there was a cordial atmosphere even at Cardiff in 2002 when your lot turned up beat before the game had even started! Say could our years of success really be resented by your folks who are now desperately attention seeking and trying to kick start some rivalry which has never really been there? Just a thought but in anycase nice debating with a chav with half a brain and one who is willing to make concessions such as admitting they are essentially a ‘middle-ranking club” without Romans dough!

Alex
April 09, 2005

I hope I'm wrong about Reyes, but saying that he's waiting for an offer he'd prefer is a bit disrespectful to the club. I'm not saying that he won't make a great player, but there are other considerations. 'Former Arsenal'- You're point that no one is 'clean' in football is true, and ethics in football is a hard argument to make, but you do not make you're argument well, and there is a lack of perspective. Graham's 'bungs' are not the same as robbing an entire country. Exiled- what proof is there that Arsenal turned down Roman's maoney? I would love to see it. Jose- Lupoli had a 2 goal per game ratio at Parma U18, and has a 1 a game here for U18 & Reserves. He also scored 2 on his 1st team debut against Everton. I'm not sure however that he's a real Arsenal style player. He's a real 'fox in the box', and goals are everything to him. In terms of great managers, how come Benitez is being ignored. 2 La Liga's and a UEFA Cup, and has taken Liverpool to the brink of the CL Semi's! Far more impressive than Jose. Benitez with money would strike more fear into most teams. They also beat us fair and square (though perhaps a draw would of been fairer), and should of beaten Chelsea twice. No one on this forum complaining about Liverpool. Would they if they were 13 points clear? No. Would I take Roman's money? No. I feel bad enough about taking Nike's. Also, it looks like we're taking the piss with local residents and businesses with regards to AG. Telling them to piss off is one thing, but only giving them knock down prices for their trouble is another. It is often the case that a club that buys success, needs two years to acheive it. Lazio, Blackburn, and Newcastle (nearly) of the top of my head. Chelsea are nothing new, a bit like thier tactics. American- I'm sure that Sport Science is more advanced in the U.S, but is there not a right old fuss at the moment about what exactly this 'science' consists of? My point is the mad rush to get fit as soon as possible maybe what is damaging them in the long term. How often we see players come back too soon, and imediatly get a long term injury again (there are always numerous players on the 'treatment table' on the Arsenal Web-Site, and that does not include the youth players). If the body breaks down, it is saying that you're doing something wrong. Playing through pain, and pumping the area with drugs for example cannot be good in the long term. How often do you see healthy ex-pros? Clichy- another one bites the dust. It can't be right. What about all the young kids who don't even get a chance?

Sabir
April 09, 2005

Clichy has broken a bone in his foot I think. Flamini went off early against Norwich but I'm not sure what the problem is with him. We usually do well at Boro, and with their injuries right now, we should get the points comfortably (I hope).

GunGun
April 09, 2005

I don`t pretend to be a Gunner...I am a Gunner who defends PLAYERS from hatred. Slag off the club but hands off the players.... I used to hate the stick and hate Kanu had to put up with here. I used to defend him and the reactions were always the same. So little respect for your own players. The day Henri stops scoring he will become a hate target too. Cannon Balls is already sharpening his wicked weapon. Today a German newspaper (Express) actually apologized in a headline about their Chelsea hate campaign. Seriously. They said " Sorry Chelsea for the abuse the players and Roman have to go through every game. You play the type of football that the working-class fans adore". I thought that was splendid sportsmanship towards a foreign side.

GunGun
April 09, 2005

Tut, Tut, Cannon Balls, watch the spelling again: it is UEFA not EUFA. You are too nervous when you write. You are all worked up. Adriano for Arsenal, I say.

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

Sabir, what happened?!! Also, is Flamini out for the remainder as well, I heard his thigh injury is more serious than we think but I've not heard this confirmed.

Sabir
April 09, 2005

It's a shame that it looks like Clichy is out for the remainder of the season. He's looked good recently.

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

Exiled, yep, funny thing is they are all caled ACL in the media here, you never hear of PCL. **** James in Copenhagen, an old one. A Brit gets beat up by a taxi driver at JFK when he asks him for a fag and a rubber. **** As far as the work hard argument, I'll also add that at times the weaker clubs work harder than the Chelseas and Arsenals of the league because of their lack of quality players. Players on our side may not work as hard against a lower table side and even with that lack of effort, have to work harder to get a point or stop it from being a cricket score.

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

Sorry, don't have the link, only an email from a fellow gooner: ARSENAL will offer Gilberto Silva a new contract this summer - but David Bentley has warned he is not afraid to quit Highbury. Gilberto made his comeback in the 4-1 win over Norwich last Saturday after being ruled out since mid-September with a back injury.He has 12 months remaining on his current deal but Gunners boss Arsene Wenger is keen to secure a three-year extension for the 28-year-old.Wenger said: "We will try to extend Gilberto's contract."He has a great presence in midfield and you could see that against Norwich. He certainly knows the job. "We want him to stay and we want him to be part of our future. We will sort that out in the summer. "He has recovered completely from his back injury and that will not be a problem for him now." While Gilberto's future seems assured, homegrown ace Bentley admits he will turn his back on the club if he is not given a chance.The 20-year-old, currently on a season-long loan with Norwich, warned: "I don't want to be playing reserve team football anymore and I won't be playing for the reserves next year. "I love the club and the fans, I grew up watching Arsenal."But at the end of the day if I'm not going to be given a chance for whatever reason then I'll have to go somewhere else, and I'm not fazed by that. "I'll speak to Arsenal and see what they have got to say, but maybe my future lies somewhere else. "At Arsenal no one is guaranteed to play every week, but I just want to be given a chance to play every week."If I'm not being successful on the pitch and the manager doesn't pick me then fair enough. I'll be the first one to hold my hands up. " **** Bentley making threats. I want to see more of him and if he's not going to be a regular on the bench, then loan him out again to a PL side that will guarantee him first team football. I would like to see him loaned to a club that would use him in the Bergkamp role, support striker. Maybe one of the promoted sides next season (Sunderland, Wigan perhaps) could use him. Maybe one of the London sides like Fulham, where we can keep an eye on him. As for Silva, his importance or perceived importance has obviously been the impetus to his contract extension. I am in favor of it. Hopefully Cole's is sorted out as well. Of the first team members I would not be upset about their leaving would be Lauren and Lehmann. I'd give Bergkamp one more year. I wouldn't use him as much but I think for the likes of van Persie, Lupoli, Reyes and Quincy and Bentley to train with him and see his work ethic and skill on a daily basis is invaluable.

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

Well said EEG about former Arsenal fan. **** Jose1905, keep posting, I actually do like to hear the opinion of rivals and neutrals, if done respectfully, which you have done to be fair to you, now on to official business ;-) had Chelsea just stopped at being able to buy the best players no matter the fee (and throwing the transfer market into chaos), I'd still be upset but understand. My concern is they are not stopping there. My concern is the feeder club scheme from which they could hoarde the world's best emerging talent. My concern is their attempting to weaken rivals by attempting to buy their transfer targets (Robben and Reyes for example). And finally, my concern is the gamesmanship being employed by your manager. As for working their butts off, all clubs do. Every one has more respect for Everton than Chelsea. Chelsea worked its butt off before didn't it? And before Roman you got 3rd. Did you work any harder for 1st place? No, you had more money. Not even your own, which at least Man Yoo can claim. Simple, end of story. At least be honest about it. I was personally glad and didn't feel a bit traitorous when our basketball team started to lose. Why? We were buying the medals to be frank and honest about it. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned in that regard. **** I also hold no ill will for the players...well some of them...haha..Robben came strictly for the money, he's a mercenary...he was all but signed for Man Yoo and he got offered much more money to come to Chelsea, even though he preferred Man Yoo and had RVN there. Terry, Lampard and Cole are better players now and that will help the national team. I cheer for the national team (2nd to my own of course) in international competitions, so I don't begrudge them and hope they get better.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 09, 2005

American - think you'll find there are different sorts of cruciate ligament injuries of which A(anterior)CL is just one. There's Posterior CL as well, and for some reason I think there is a third.

Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005

GunGun,the only hysterical ranting is coming from you and the other muppet your partner in slime Professor of Grammar Mick. You do post some unbelivable stupid nonsense. Mourinho admitted to lying when he claimed to have seen the Barca manager go into Frisks dressingroom at half-time.It then turned out to have been his staff who saw it, but then this turned out to be a mistake! - what they saw was Rikaard speak a few words with Frisk outside the dressing room and in plain view and earshot of numerous people including media and Eufa officials. Mourinho cynicallly turned this innocuous incident into allegations of corruption. In many peoples view he got off lightly with a two match ban. Frisks admitting that Rikaard spoke to him on his way to the dressing room but did not follow him inside just further refutes the lies of Mourinho. I have told you before try and engage your brain before flying in with your nonsensical rants - you just make yourself look silly. If Mourinho was correct Chelsea would have backed him - they did not and still have not done so a picture paints a thousand words eh? - hey! perhaps they know something that you don't GunGunge???

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

Mr Parker's Dogbite, first, thanks for your post. My post may come off as meanspirited but its not meant to be, only to be a brutally honest assessment of the situation and facts. Now, as far as Jose winning with no money, its all speculation. You don't know. Its also a slap in the face to every other club to say that Chelsea's players work harder based purely on your standing in the league. Does Gudjohnsen work harder than Palace's Andy Johnson? Is the basis for that argument their respective club's position in the table? As for Jose's portuguese record, he inherited one of the top 3 clubs in a 3 club league. Porto had never been worse than 3rd before he arrived going back to '99 when they were league champs. His UEFA cup was won with cheating, diving and gamesmanship and his route to the CL was the easiest route any club in recent memory has had as he avoided Real Madrid, Juve, Milan, Bayern Munich and caught Man Yoo when even Wolves were beating them. Depor when they had a man sent off (from Porto cheating) in both legs. They played 11 v. 10 both times. Frankly, no matter what Jose accomplishes at Chelsea with Roman's money can't be seen as great as what Wenger did with no money. If Mourinho had taken over Liverpool or Newcastle and won the title, then I could call him great. I have said before, there are a half a dozen PL managers that could have won the league within 2 years at Chelsea given the same situation. I honestly think I personally could win the title in 4 with the same money. All I have to do is buy the right coaching staff around me. The real question is can Chelsea win with no Roman? **** I'd like to find anyone outside of Stamford Bridge that thinks your finances will be sorted out in time without Roman's money. Just because Kenyon says it, doesn't make it so. The interesting thing is we were rumored in the press to be on the brink of bankruptcy over the stadium and our limited finances, but now even the skeptics have come round and no one is talking about our not having any money. The Reyes buy happening around the same time as the final financing for AG shut the last of the skeptics up. I'm wondering why the press has been kind to Kenyon and Chelsea regarding their future finances? In time I think they will scrutinize it a bit more but right now they are enjoying having Jose make good quotes and a club other than us and ManYoo. **** Coke head Merson, you're talking about individual players actions. Had the club instructed its players to dive or whatever, then it would be a similar argument to the ones being waged against the Blues. Anyone can name at least one outrageous tackle or dive by a player on every club in all divisions.

Juliano
April 09, 2005

Parker-You cannot see the difference between a club like Manchester United, who each year make a profit by themselves, and Chelsea who make losses every season but have an "artificial" way to sweep them all? Man Utd are getting on my nerves, but I'd give them the credit they are due. Chelsea, well I reckon they've put a decent team together, but who wouldn't with the cash they're on? I'll frankly cream myself the day Abramovich is sent down by Putin like Mikhail Chodorkovsky before him, and Chelsea are put into administration. Finally, you say that there is much more hatred towards Chelsea on Arsenal boards than on MU's? Well, I don't think it's one of their players you lot tapped up a couple of days before an important game was it?

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

N5er, I think if Chelsea comes to dominate Europe you'll see a super league from the G14. Before they do, they'll ask UEFA to do something about it and if they don't, they'll do what they've been threatening to do for some time, start their own league and with it take the money from UEFA and all the FAs in Europe. I wonder if eventually, we'll see what happened here happens to football in England to combat Chelsea. Our sports teams started out owned by a local family who really loved the club and it was like a favored child to them, then they sold out to partnerships, headed by a lead partner who controlled the club and now its corporations that own some teams like Disney and Time-Warner. Would the likes of Cadbury-Schweppes or Tosco end up owning clubs as the only means for them to compete financially? **** Mee, good point about personal wealth like Jack Walker and the guy at Wolves. The vast majority of the time it doesn't throw the whole transfer market out of whack. Also, its only about building their club and not the other things that Chelesa have done which I've mentioned.

AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005

Alex, if you saw Mourinho's tactics in the UEFA cup run a couple years ago, you may think otherwise about him changing tactics. I am a Rangers fan in the SPL but found myself feeling sorry for Celtic in the final. The diving, cheating and gamesmanship was too much to bear. As well as some of the tactics in the run to the UEFA cup. As far as I can tell, if he can beat you fairly he will but if he can't he won't hesitate to use gamesmanship. I also think if Reyes has a great season, or the type of season we think he's capable of and Real Madrid comes calling, I wouldn't be shocked if he went. When you're playing well on the pitch everything else (settling in culturally, etc.) becomes a lot easier, but he is not one of the more cosmopolitan players like Cesc, who would take interest in a foreign country and adapt. Its just his personality I think. **** Regarding Ryan Garry and injuries to others. Maybe the physical toll is partially training and medical regimen? We have plenty of youth that have gone to play professionally at 17 and 18 here. Sports Medicine is big business here and most professional teams have top notch surgeons at their disposal. Even some footballers in Europe have come here for a specialist. Even in the physically demanding sports like gridiron the medical staff is world class. Cruiciate ligament (known as ACL here) injuries are treated with very good specialists. The professional teams have the money so they pay for top surgeons and team doctors. I don't know if its the same level in England or Europe. I have heard Arsenal has excellent medical staff but not sure if its the same quality for all clubs. The uni teams here are also excellent.

James - Copenhagen
April 09, 2005

Michael Jackson meets Woody Allen at JFK and asks have you got two fives for a ten?

Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005

EEG, i hate Spuds too so i must be three-dimensional!. I guess that Josie must have rubbed his hands with glee on seeing that long-ball over the top that we scored from. against BM. No need to practice just normal service required really. Hargreaves made plain and Kahn also that they realize that they were mugged by the long-ball so i will be surprised if the do not do something to counter it.And their quick passing and diving won them lots of free kicks in danger areas. Strangely despite the much vaunted defense Chelsea looked dodgy and Jonson was fortunate to get away with his mistake, that should have been a goal. With Roy Makaay back to offer more problems up front, the Germans were very light weight and could not hold up the ball in that department i do not think that Hargreaves is wrong in believing that they can still turn this tie around. Chelsea are favourites but not certainties in my book.

East End Gooner
April 09, 2005

Owen Hargreaves comments were stupid and any Arsenal supporter seeking comfort from them is a fool. Bayern whupped us and were whupped by Chelsea. I was watching thinking "this Bayern side is **** with the long ball and set pieces and our two goals against them came that way so why the **** did we spend so much time trying to play through them?". It was hard to notice Ballack was even playing in the first half because Chelsea by-passed the midfield. But much as I think we could have worked that one out, I cant give Jose too much credit. Its how his team plays best anyway. Its a tactic that will struggle against the Milan back-line though could get them joy against Juventus.

East End Gooner
April 09, 2005

GunGun - Completely wrong I am afraid. See my posts to Niall. Your posts go well, well beyond fair to Chelsea. Bizarre really. I can understand the Parker's Dog etc because they admit what they are and are up for a discourse. But why pretend you are a Gooner when your only outlet seems to be the defence of Chelsea? Some people argue that Cannon Balls is one dimensional. I think that unreasonable because he hates Fergie as well as Chelsea. You on the other hand......

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 09, 2005

Whilst I appreciate Owen Hargreaves comments on the difference between us and chelscum its got to be said that if we could mix it up a little we might have gone that little further in the competition over the last few years! Come on Arsenal.

GunGun
April 09, 2005

Cannon Balls...it`s pay day. Uefa have ben caught out so all your hysterical ranting about Mourinho being a liarhas been in vain. You must be feeling rather silly today. And did you notice that Gunfire is back? But to be fair, I think you recently said you knew we were different posters.***I think Senderos deserves a good run till the end of the season, Sol or no Sol. Arsenal are definitely a nicer club than Chelsea. But I still will not be drawn into the type of hatred shown here.

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 09, 2005

Afternoon all. As Bernard said earlier I was up Highbury earlier today. I'd like to say the main reason was to get tickets for the semi, or to go and check the builders at AG were'nt slacking, but unfortunately it was to pay a parking fine I picked up two saturdays ago when I went up to check out the progress of the aforementioned new Stadium! Anyway I had to pay the fine at Finsbury park but as I was in the area I stopped off at Highbury to have a look round (well you've got to havent you!). Firstly its great news the semi has sold out (as I was told was going to happen). Indeed I've just been on a Blackburn forum and they're saying they've only sold around 15,000 tickets (I'm not going to take the p*** as we've got a lot more fans than them). Anyway, apparently they've sold them in blocks and most of the west stand is un-sold. They're suggesting on there that those tickets (many of them at 25 quid) might go on sale to Gooners, so if you know anyone who wants to go, but thinks they cant, than tell them to keep an eye out for any possible ticket news. Was up AG on saturday and couldnt believe the progress in just 4 days. The whole upper tier is almost complete and if its not finished today or tomorrow, it will almost certainly be completed on Monday. They've also put up the two huge steel structures on the south stand cores that takes the weight of the massive roof structures currently under construction on the pitch. I was told these would be in place by the end of April some weeks ago and it looks like its going to happen. Finished the morning off by checking the Stadium out from the overhead station at Finsbury park (as suggested by Bernard) and it looks just as impressive there as it does from most places. Saying that if you want to get the full 'wow' factor from AG I suggest you go to the top of Avenall road and do a right down Aubert park-it looks amazing! By the way, my fine was 50 quid-it would have gone up to 100 tomorrow! What a bummer!!! Come on Arsenal.

lol
April 09, 2005

michael jackson may have sex with kids but who cares, i mean , its michael jackson !they should let him off then he should moon walk outa court

lol
April 09, 2005

michael jackson may have sex with kids but who cares, i mean , its michael jackson !they should let him off then he should moon walk outa court

Hong Kong Gooner
April 09, 2005

Mr. Parker - it must give you and many other Chelsea supporters no end of joy to be part of a billionaire's financial experiment to turn a mid-ranking club into a huge brand.I'd rather support Doncaster Rovers.What is going on at your club is a disgrace to sport, however you dress it up.Other topics - centre back pairing for Middlesbro' is a fascinating issue.Arsene must be tempted to throw Sol in and give him a game before the semi-final and given his last few performances Senderos should return, but is it going too far to pair Sol and Senderos for the next couple of games?Cygan to be left out but I suspest if Sol is fit he'll play alongside Toure.And whoever mentioned it - I was also at the Michael Jackson concert at Wembley in 1988 and I'm proud to come on here and admit it.

jose1905
April 09, 2005

How good is this lupoli kid then ? Anyone watch youth/reserve games ?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 09, 2005

Steve - Harlow I believe.

Mr Parker's Dogbite
April 09, 2005

For N5er. I’m not so foolish to believe that Chelsea is about to become a huge money-making machine. Effectively, Roman’s investment in Chelsea is an enormous long-term financial and sporting experiment to see if a huge up front investment can transform an (I admit) middle-ranking club into a huge, successful sporting ‘brand’. Of course it’s too soon to see if it will work but early signs are promising. Regardless of Roman’s investment, Chelsea generated more revenue than any club in the world aside from Man United, Real Madrid and AC Milan last year. These sponsorship deals will push that higher still (and who says it’s the club that are paying Umbro the £25m?). Question: What two Champions League matches have had the highest British TV audiences since 1999? Answer: Arsenal v Chelsea in the quarter-final last year and Chelsea v Barcelona this year. Things are progressing well on the stadium redevelopment front too, I understand, with negotiations with the council to increase the capacity of Stamford Bridge to 50,000 plus well advanced. Look at the back pages of the paper every day - the ‘brand’ (and I hate that term) is developing fast.As for the levels of bitterness amongst rival fans, I absolutely stick by the opinion that Arsenal fans are much more resentful of Chelsea’s wealth (and success than most Man U fans). This board (and AWIMB) is dominated by anti-Chelsea threads with very few dissenting voices. There’s resentment on the United boards like Red Issue too but a lot more diversity of opinion about the Chelsea phenomenon. I called it fascinating before because I genuinely can’t understand why there’s a difference. Maybe because we’re local (though not traditional) rivals. Who knows?And Roman’s dosh drying up? It could happen. But I’m making the most of it while it lasts. On the other hand it could just be the start of something that will stand the test of time…

Judge JohnD
April 09, 2005

I don't think you should presume that Chelsea Village going into receivership would have scuppered Capt. Birdseye. He made his fortune buying liquidated companies from a friendly receiver, then selling off the assets and shafting the creditors, according to Tom Bower. And, in fact, that is exactly what happened with Chelsea. Bought it for a pound, backed all the assets into Chelsea Village, set up so that his interests and RBS were protected and left all the creditors to go whistle at the shell he left behind. And where was the mighty FA you might ask? Being told what to do by Ken? PtG, naturally, thought all this admirable whilst praising the CV development and doing a Mirhir on the Deins. Niall should read up on the mid 70's and The Irish Trust Bank. None of this, of course, recognized by that chav moralist. Who, by the way, forgot to mention that Sir Henry was the Mayor and MP for….Chelsea.

steve martin
April 09, 2005

Good afternoon, did I say the semi has sold out, or did I say I have a semi, sorry it's the champoo... I'm off home now, just got to remember where I live, any help, Hic!!!!

steve martin
April 09, 2005

I reckon, once the season has ended the media will have a field day at Chelseas expence... You won't be able to pick up a papers without "They brought the trophies"... So it's up to Boro, can we smash them again, I've lost count fo the 6's 5's and 4's we have scored against them...

steve martin
April 09, 2005

Did I say that the semi-final has sold out...

Phil O'Sofa
April 09, 2005

I think Bernard was out of order slagging off Sean, I assume he lives over here like me. I rarely post but this is really turning into a Chelsea site. What's wrong with you? We should be talking about Arsenal. I have never got to a game at Highberry and rely on this forum since I became a fan in 2003. Do you think Reyes will leave and will we buy Owen?

Mee
April 09, 2005

My last post was an attempt at being more charitable towards Chelsea, I didn’t quite manage it.

Mee
April 09, 2005

If Senderos gets the nod over a not fully match fit Campbell at Middlesborough tommorow, we must accept that at some point he will make a few mistakes. His recent performances bode well for the future and the search for a replacement CB has all but been called off. If he does have a less than perfect performance can we keep a sense of perspective? In the CL match on Wednesday both goalkeepers, generally considered to be among the finest in the world, were guilty of errors. Tony Adams formative years were characterised by a few errors (Van Basten) but he was allowed to develop into the kind of CB that John Terry would like to become.

david.d
April 09, 2005

chelsea deserve credit for what they have achieved so far this season. it hurt to see them putting four past bayern while we got knocked out by that very team. they seem to have mastered europe in half the time it has taken us and that is annoying but where i and other gooners are rightly p*ssed off is how they have just thrown money at everything and seem to have this arrogance about them that they can do what the **** they like. anyone who thinks abramovich hasnt changed the name of the game is a fool. the money they have spent is obscene and their success will never be appreciated or respected the way ours has by careful prudent management and not throw money at anything that moves. without abramovich they would not be homing in on their first title in 50 years thats for sure. however mark my words we will continue to compete make no mistake about that however much money they care to spend...

Niall
April 09, 2005

Thanks for that EEG...Knowing Cormwall just about eclipses Cannon Balls for Chelsea hatred (but he makes sense at the same time) I look forward to reading the replies to that one.

East End Gooner
April 09, 2005

No Rich, as N5er and Bored have pointed out, the sale by Bates was a firesale because the banks were just about to call in the key facilities keeping them afloat. Admin was the most likely but whatever way it was going Terry, Lampard, Gallas and the rest would have been sold off for shirt-buttons. So the Abramovich money wasn't just about going forward with no reference to prudent financial management, it was about rescuing the club from the affects of complete mismanagement in the past. Without the money they wouldn't be hovering around 4th or 5th, they would be lucky to be still in the top flight.

Bored
April 09, 2005

I think in time more and more people will get disillusioned with chelsea's trophy buying antics. But for now only those clubs affected directly (AFC, The Mancs) will feel particularly aggrieved that the strong footballing position they've earned over the years is being threatened by a mega rich bloke who didn't even support Chelsea. Didn't Liverpool have a banner in the Carling Cup Final that said "Respect must be earned not bought"...

Exiled In Newcastle
April 09, 2005

Rich - all it would have taken was Heathrow to be fogbound for a day and the chavs would have gone into receivership. 1 day away. So near...

Vince Ordinaire
April 09, 2005

Anything Chelsea win is meaningless. Instead of the Premiership trophy they should give Abramovich a giant receipt made of gold and diamonds. But I do think Mourinho should be given the Champions League Trophy, rectally.

Rich
April 09, 2005

To add to the 'would Chelsea be where they are without the money' debate, I think it's a blatently obvious NO. If my memeory serves me right they were 5th then 4th the two season before abro? Maybe with some of the good players they had already, Gallas, Terry, Lampard, Gudjohnson, Cudicini they could have over taken Liverpool, but they wouldn't have got anywhere near Arsenal or Man U. More importantly if you look at the bigger picture were'nt Chelsea some £60-80m in debt at the time, similar size debt to Leeds and look what happened to them. This would have led to Chelsea having to sell all assets ie. the players, and when the sharks of other clubs could smell blood then there would have been no garuntee that the players would have fetched top price. I mean look at Leeds getting mere pennies for players like Kewell, Bowyer, Keane. The more realistic outlook would have been Chelsea fighting relegation after flogging all their stars and not being able to buy new players. This is one of the main reasons for the bitterness towards Chelsea's success. They were badly managed and heading for a very uncertain future and it was solved in 5 minutes, through no hard work, as though incompitence had been rewarded. As for Mourinho being proved to be a great manager because of his trophies on limited budget at Porto, well I bet his budget was bigger than 99% of teams in Portugal. European trophies fair enough but the UEFA cup just proves that you can beat the teams ranked somewhere between 20-50 in Europe (Celtic in the final) and I've never seen an easier cup run for the final last year. Man U in decline, (which they should have lost) QF escapes me, then Depor and Monaco. The draw literally opened up for him.

Bored
April 09, 2005

I think N5er makes an excellent point regarding Chelsea. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at Leeds as an example of how not to run a football club after watching them crash and burn so spectacularly. But without the fortuitous intervention of Roman's Roubles, Chelsea would be in administration and be the Leeds of London.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 09, 2005

N5er - spot on about the mancs view of our friends from up west. If anything they're more p****d off than us as they've always set great store by the fact their wealth was created by their own commercial activities.

N5er
April 08, 2005

Dogbite, regarding Roman pumping in less money as success increases. This is all very well in theory and if you win the CL every year for the next five years this may add a fair sum to your turnover. But the truth is mate its a piddle in the ocean to what expenditure you are making. 88M loss last year and no doubt a big one this year too!I've heard you intend increasing your sponsorship and have in fact ditched Umbo for Adidas and have a new shirt sponsor on the horizon but again this will be relatively small change and in fact your Adidas sponsorship will only add 3M a year for the next five years taking into consideration the 25M you have to pay compensation to Umbro. Any new shirt deal is also unlikely to add too much to the 6M pa you were getting from Emirates and all the additional revenues you are turning over relating to the Chelsea Village business model incorporated by Bates are desperately losing money. The only real avenue you have is to increase capacity at Stamford Bridge and I understand they have problems in this area too. So its unlikely that you will have any opportunity within the forseeable future of escalating your turnover any more than say 25M a year and thats if you win everything in the meantime! You talk about us (and Liverpool fans) moaning about unfair competition being akin to Sainsbury's whinging about WalMart buying Asda but surely you can see the difference? If this was fundamentally unfair to competition then the monopolies commission would be called in and I'm sure the shareholders of Walmart would be extremely concerned if the Company was throwing good money after bad which is what in effect Roman is doing by running up debts in a bid to satisfy his own ego and new found hobby! You also say you find it fascinating that Man United fans have far less trouble accepting that Chelsea's emergence is simply new competition. Thats not the case at all mate and they are equally as agrieved by the situation. Perhaps you don't visit their boards like you do the Arsenal (and I assume Liverpool ones). And yes when we next do win the league it will be extremely satisfying but not as satisfying as when we see the ultimate disintegration of your Club when Romans dosh dries up! ;_)

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Here you go Niall - other websites pay people for this stuff. As the new "moderator" you should be thanking me that I give it to you for free - http://www.football365.com/opinion/f365_opinion/story_148741.shtml

Juliano
April 08, 2005

"hail him as a genius" even.

Juliano
April 08, 2005

You've gotta laugh at such hindsight! So basically Mourinho could turn any team into world beaters, without Abramovich's money? We should draw a list of all the players this money has bought over the last two years, I think it would be interesting. Who of the current Chelsea squad was already there when Bates was the chairman? John Terry for sure, but then who? Gallas, Cole, Cudicini, Gudjonsen and that's about it. I don't deny Mourinho looks a top manager, one has to be to win the Champions League, but the way the media hail as a genius him you'd be forgiven to believe he is managing a promoted team. For jesus' sake Chelsea were runners up last season, and Champions League semi finalists! Let's get some bloody perspective.

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

It's self evident that Mourinho is a good coach,rather over - hyped though and more of a psychological motivater and mind-games player than a tactical genius, Nothing original about the football that he serves up. Many though have questioned his methods his Porto side was labeled 'divers' and cheats and the abuse of match officals to upset and influence them was at work then too. Even the drunken jock was upstaged at OT last season by Mourinho who had used the familiar winding up of the match officials before the CL tie, and benefited from a legit United goal scored by Scolles being disallowed by a nervous linesman that Mourinho had given verbal too through out the first half. That was a decisive turning point in Mourinhos fortunes - no Euro Cup - no Chelsea job. So after the linesman putting down his flag after first raising it to award a foul on the Barca keeper allowing Terrys goal to stand i don't see that Chelsea can have any complaints about Mourinhos ban after he over re-acted and lied over the Frisk affair to suit his own ends. The sending off of Drogba was legit he had been getting away with murder all night. And the whinging coming out of the Bridge over Ballacks dive is just laughable - what comes around...

N5er
April 08, 2005

Dogbite, how do you know Arsenal are leading the blocking of your G14 membership? To tell you the truth I don't believe we hold much sway at all within the organisation and only being an associate member and not a founding member it could well be that we don't even have a vote!?! Regarding controlling you from inside our "gang" as I pointed out earlier the wage/turnover ratio has not been resolved anyway despite there being a supposed deadline of 2005. You're probably right that Chelsea would be up there with Arsenal and Utd with Mourinho in charge even if he hadn't had untold millions to spend as you quite rightly say you had been challenging for the past 5 years or so. What you conveniently forget to mention though is that Bates started the ball rolling by gambling the future of your club by spending what he couldn't afford and you wouldn't have even been up there challenging if he hadn't taken a risk. And who is to say Mourinho (and Kenyon) would have come to you without knowing he was on a sure thing with Romans dosh?

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Niall - Clarke cannot be excused from turning an "assumption" into an outright lie. Whether he was justified in the assumption is irrelevant. He presented an untruth as fact and it happened to be proven that he was wrong. It is like me seeing someone standing over someone who has been the victim of an assault and telling a court I saw him assault him. I might have been making a reasonable assumption that he did but I would be out and out lying to say I saw it. And in doing so you would have to question my motivation. That is why I think UEFA HAD to act and were right in doing so. They knew WHY Chelsea were doing what they did and wanted to stop it. I was surprised the league didn't react in the same way after the Carling Cup semi.

Mr Parker's Dogbite
April 08, 2005

If Wenger had spent £200m and Jose nothing then I suppose the chances are Arsenal would be well clear in the league and quite possibly half way to reaching the CL semi-finals. However, interestingly, I'm not absolutely certain that would happen - Arsene's had a fairly mixed record when he's spent big hasn't he? Reyes? Wiltord? Jeffers? Last year's Arsenal side was great because every player knew the system and their team mates instinctively. Throw in a whole load of galacticos into that mix and the result, in the end, would be pretty unpredictable.As for your point about fair competition. Well I'd just say that that seems like a case being made for a closed shop. Only those clubs with tradition (and the large fanbase which goes with sustained success) should be entitled to challenge for honours. The way I see Roman influence proceeding is that increasingly less money will be pumped into the club as our success (and therefore our associated fanbase and revenue) increases. Effectively he's 'pump priming' the club. You lot (and Liverpool fans) moaning about unfair competition just seems akin to Sainsbury's whinging about WalMart buying Asda. I find it fascinating that Man United fans have far less trouble accepting that Chelsea's emergence is simply new competition. And just think - when you next win the league (as you surely will) think how satisfying it'll feel beating the Russian behemoth...

Niall
April 08, 2005

Mrs Parker's Dogbite, I think it's pretty fair to conclude though that although Mourinho's work and record at Porto was excellent and that what he did there proved he was an excellent coach of a side (in that he was able to organise a workman like outfit embellished with the talents of Deco and Maniche and some class defenders) that he would not have walked into the Premiership at a club with average resources and been able to immediately walk the Premiership. It has to be remembered that most of the players that have been crucial to Mourinho's success were already at the club brought in by Ranieri. I'm talking about Gudjohnsen, Duff, Lampard, Terry and even solid players like Gallas and Bridge. It also has to be remembered that many of the players bought to Chelsea before the arrival of Mourinho, were Robben, and Cech who have also been instrumental in your success this season. Most of these buys were not made under "average resources." In fact, bar Ferreria and Carvallho, Mourinho's signings have been questionable. Drogba has not looked a £24m player. Kezman has flopped. The big Czech midfielder looks nothing special and Tiago hasn't set the world on fire as well. Whereas in my opinion at the start of the season was once Mourinho came in it was only a matter of time before Chelsea won it, his immediate success is ultimately linked with Abramovich's money. What I will be fair in saying is: If you still had Ranieri, I think you would have been much less likely to be where you are now.

steve martin
April 08, 2005

Mr parker, thanks for posting a reasonble post, nice to be able to discuss without things getting out of hand... You right, Cheslea would be challenging, they have been there or there abouts over the last few years, but not enough to worry Arsenal too much, more so United as you finished above them last season... Jose has done the business at Porto, but the Euro is much better to discuss about him, as Portugese football, is about as good as Scottish football... I ask you in all fairness, what do you reckon would be happening NOw, if Wenger was given 200m at the begining of this season ans not the money Jose has been given... Football has to be run with competition, clubs should spend what they have, or at least borrow, with a mind to paying the sums back in loans... Chelsea have a benefactor, one that no one can match, it distorts the game...

Fergus
fergushay@hotmail.com
April 08, 2005

I have a spare ticket for the Semi-final, in the Arsenal end. Bought for £49.50. Am open to offers, email above address.

Mr Parker's Dogbite
April 08, 2005

In reply to Steve Martin, as a visiting Chelsea fan I can honestly say that if Mourinho had been in charge of Chelsea with only average resources at his disposal then I still think the club would be up there challenging Arsenal and Man U. Admittedly I doubt we would be 13 points clear but I still think he would have taken the side on. We *do* work harder than any other side on England right now and it's not Roman's money that's achieved that. It's Jose's supreme ability to motivate his players (plus his tactical nous and his relentless preparation).You ask how we know he's a great manager when he's spent a fortune? Well I'd just point at Porto for the answer to that. Consecutive European trophies with a maximum outlay of £3m (on Benni McCarthy). Not a bad record that. And that's leaving aside his record domestically.And you're also right that if things continue as they are the established order will try and rein Chelsea in. With United saying they have no money to spend this Summer and Wenger seemingly reluctant to spend your cash, there's a real chance we'll dominate the Premiership for some time to come. The same thing may very well happen in Europe. Which makes it all the more odd that the G14 (led by Arsenal and Liverpool) are blocking our membership. Letting us into your gang club gives you lot a much better chance of controlling us (our conduct towards other G14 clubs, our spending, our wage/turnover ratio) than leaving us outside.

Mee
April 08, 2005

Chelsea are not alone in having a wealthy benefactor, most Chairman use proportions of their personal wealth to galvanise their clubs - look at Delia at Norwich and the examples of Blackburn and Wolves. It’s the sheer scale of what Abramovich is doing which is distorting the market and which will in all likelihood eventually lead to legislation being passed to safeguard the notion of a balanced and competitive league structure.

steve martin
April 08, 2005

OWEN HARGREAVES has dismissed Chelsea as long-ball merchants and reckons the Premiership leaders would not be out of place in the Scottish League!The Bayern Munich midfielder refuses to write off his team’s Champions League prospects despite Wednesday’s 4-2 defeat at Stamford Bridge.And he believes the Blues are a poor second to the Arsenal team beaten by Bayern in the previous round of Europe’s premier club competition.The England international, 24, said: “Arsenal and Chelsea are totally different in the way they approach the game. Even when Arsenal were two goals down against us in the last round, they still tried to pass the ball through the middle. “But Chelsea knew they couldn’t hurt us with their passing and didn’t create a single chance playing that way. “They just banged long balls forward for Didier Drogba to flick on and he caused us a lot of problems with his size and heading ability.“It reminded me of when we played Celtic a couple of years ago and they were hitting lots of big high balls for John Hartson and Chris Sutton to flick on to Henrik Larsson.

Mee
April 08, 2005

Coke head Merson: Fair point about quality, I knew that part of my argument was slightly untenable, but my anger at the tone of some of the pro-chelsea posts distorted my sense of reason.

steve martin
April 08, 2005

Well well, all tickets sold for the FA Cup semi final...

steve martin
April 08, 2005

Chelsea - Arsenal, Champs League, has been like alternative dimensions, whereas Chelsea have played quite well, all the luck has gone their way, wher we have own goals against and bad back passes, they have own goals for and deflections going their way... Now a serious Q, one that should be easy for everyone to answer, inc any Chelsea guest on here at the moment, would Jose have made Chelsea what they are, if he had to manage them the same way as Arsene has had to do at Highbury... How the bloody hell can you tell how great a manager is, when he has spent a fortune... The media say he is the best, yet, Wenger has won the league three times in this country, with a lot less help than Jose gets... Chelsea are a very good side, but it's how it wa sput together that leaves a bad taste in the mouth... They may even be a victim of their own sucess in the years too come, if they keep on winnig, then the big boys will have too look again at how clubs are run... Arsenal and United use their own money, Chelsea are using a very rich mans money, he is using them as his personal hobby, football is becoming one mans hobby... It may seem OK! now, but if he keeps investing to dominate, the game is going to suffer big time...

My opinion
April 08, 2005

I think you'll find people at 99% of the clubs throughout the football league work their arses off for their club. Nothing special about Chelsea in that regard.

N5er
April 08, 2005

Like to think Abramovich would never have got control over Arsenal, 20% of the shares are with families that have had interests in the club since the 1920s and 30s. Another 40% are owned by board memebers Dein and Fiszman who obviously have their own vision of where they want Arsenal to be! Money talks of course but personally I wouldn't have wanted him (or any other sole owner) anywhere near my club. I'm a minor shareholder myself and it means something to me and I also enjoy attending the AGM (when I am in the UK) and suchlike. Wouldn't even mind if Roman was a life long fan of your club but hes just a JCL himself and it would kill me to see the club I have loved all my life being used as someones play thing! Just my two bobs worth, you'll have to reconcile your own conscience.

Darren
April 08, 2005

Jose - Fair enough but you can't divide the issue: It is ONLY Roman's money that has enabled you to challenge, end of. You can't say it's wrong to state the facts.

Niall
April 08, 2005

Jose, don't swear mate or your posts will be removed without prejudice. EEG, I think at the end of the day (as I can't be arsed getting drawn into this one today) UEFA have a lot to answer for on this one. Whereas the "smelling of roses" comment I made was the obvious bait left, I don't think anyone has come out of the affair with any credit. UEFA quickly dismissed Chelsea's comments as "lies" and whereas it appears that Rijkaard was spotted three times (by UEFA's own men) as well as Chelsea staff approaching the ref and then approaching the refs dressing room. I think Clarke's assumption would be drawn by many in that scenario. Mourinho boobed by the way he reacted so yes he did lie on it. However, Rijkaard has got away scot free and from a position last week where it looked like Chelsea were totally in the wrong, it has swung back to bite UEFA in the arse somewhat.

April 08, 2005

Jose,we are not in the position that your club were in under your former owner Bates when Abramovich flapped past in his helicopter. Nor have we gone 50 years without a title. So the answer is that we can be and are more selective about who owns our club. Let me ask you this - who do you think that Abramovich would sooner have bought if he had a choice - us - or Chelsea?. Spuds were going to take his money and so would Manure.They are only objecting to Glazer because of the massive financial baggage that he brings with him. No apologies needed about our past history the Sir Henry Norris one is old-hat,and needs to be loked at in the light of the benefits that his actions brought to football in London. I doubt that Abramovichs tenure at Chelsea will do likewise. People are not queing up to watch Chelsea either and the team is not all that is artificial - so is the football and boring everyone stiff, it will be interesting to see how Sky's viewing figures pan out on Chelsea compared to our unbeaten 49 run which had stadiums sold out and massive WW viewing TV figures.

Bored
April 08, 2005

Chelsea fans: The fact that it has taken one of the world's richest men to buy you the title, does that not cheapen the achievement for you? Then again if Arsenal hadn't won the league for half a century perhaps we wouldn't complain either....but that doesn't make it right.

N5er
April 08, 2005

From G14s site >>> The items on top of G-14’s list of priorities are: • Representation of clubs in the decision taking process as regards international club football and any other matters having an impact on clubs. • Strategy for the exploitation of Media and other commercial rights related to international club competitions. • Financial health of the football industry. • Compatibility of club football and national team football. (Harmonized international calendar, responsibilities to be assumed by each party) They wish: • To obtain favourable conditions for the clubs in the context of the implementation of the Champions League media rights policy which corresponds to the terms of the Agreement between UEFA and the European Commission promulgated on 4 June 2002. • To find solutions which allow clubs to secure a positive financial balance, despite stagnating or decreasing revenue streams, and to give the G-14 member clubs tools aimed at limiting their expenditure. A maximum rate of a club’s turnover has been identified as target not to be exceeded when allocating overall salary cost. The deadline for reaching this target is 2005. • To develop the dialogue with football governing bodies in order to improve their understanding of the clubs’ concerns as regards the Harmonized International Calendar of competitions and the reduction of players’ workload, to be equally supported by national team and club football. >>> These have been goals sort by G14 for some time and not just since the emergence of Abramovich. Regarding the salary vs turnover figure, its been suggested that it should be between 65-75% but no agreement has been forthcoming. As such Chelsea have not been barred from admittance because they do not satisfy this criteria, in fact they tried to join just before us and were turned down. G14 admittance is by invitation only and any member club can veto anothers membership claim.

Darren
April 08, 2005

Jose - you're just filthy!

jose1905
April 08, 2005

Chelsea have history , just not a history of success and honours. we still have the same name , same ground , same location , same blue kit ... i love tradition and would never want us to move ground or change our name ( cough .. ) no matter what the financial reward may be .We are getting an old school 'rampant lion' badge back next year and are getting the old pride of london flag back providing it passes fire safety regulations ... we still have our working class roots , in the mathew harding lower all us yobs are still going and singing .. we are still chelsea , just now we are filthy rich.

jose1905
April 08, 2005

Darren
April 08, 2005

Note to self - must buy tap shoes for the day Roman pulls the plug. Wouldn't like to dance on Chelsea's grave in anything other than the finest!

Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005

Jose - we did. And fair play to the board for doing so. Other clubs turned him down as well, but the chavs had no choice but to accept because capt birdseye had taken them to within 24 hours of receivership.

Coke head Merson
April 08, 2005

Inner city school, Eton and Harrow, is that not a question of money, when it should be a question of the quality of the pupil? My only points are that all clubs attempt to buy the title its just a question of how big the pot is, and as you quite correctly point out players are mainly drawn from "working class" Bowyer being a fine example, and the abuse that Le Saux use to take being an example of the working class mind set of most supporters. Arsenal are a fine club but the bitterness you display towards Chelsea must have them rolling up.

jose1905
April 08, 2005

so would you turn romans money away?

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

For those who ask why so much chelsea chat on here- the answer is that their supporters and appologists keep posting their hype and have to be answered. How does Mourinhos genius make all of those deflected goals keep flying in then 'not really arsenal?.' Because without them Chelsea would not be so far ahead in the league and out of the CL and possibly would not even won the LC Cup either. They are just down to luck.I cannot recall any team getting the amount that this Chelsea team have in a season before. Working on the assumption that this will not continue to happen on the laws of probability - then will Chelsea really find it so easy next season ?. They will get their Mickey Mouse Double at least this time around but if they fail in the CL then that will not seem so extra-ordinary after Mourinho and his supporters boasted that they would win 4 trophies .If you do the talk you gotta do the walk or keep quite.

Bored
April 08, 2005

Former Tottingham: I think you are missing the point. Its not that Arsenal or any other team have perfect pasts, its that Chelsea's dark arts are happening now on a scale never seen before, and which threaten the viablity of the game. Im glad that as a sperz fan you are proud of your teams illustrious history of mid table heroics. However, for the rest of us who aim a little higher, watching another mid table titan spend someone elses money and be lauded for it seems a bit sad.

East End Gooners
April 08, 2005

Ah "not really former Arsenal" - as suspected but strange that you felt lying about it might lend some credence to your views? Do they give lessons in it at the Bridge? And yes I will be going. I will be abusing the corporate "hospitality" and sitting just down from the Russian ladies under their blankets and kebab heaters.

Darren
April 08, 2005

Former Arsenal - you can drag up Henry Norris and quote history, ironic really considering Chelsea have none whatsoever, other than that of being a nasty, racist little clubs who had a habit of making revolting little idiots their club captain. John Terry's best mate was Jody Morris. Says it all really.

jose1905 (former arsenal)
April 08, 2005

in 2008 uefa start the homegrown rule where 4 or 5 ( i think) players in the 25man squad must be homegrown ( under 18 and been at club several years) to be allowed to enter the champions league - or something like that .Does anyone else just think that chelsea and arsenal and the other top sides will just sign up all the best kids and rob smaller clubs of promising talents ?

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Exiled - I doubt UEFA has the power to do that. The G14 as a private organisation does though and I thought that is why Chelsea are excluded. They are unable to comply with the agreement that clubs will have a wage bill no greater than 75% of turnover.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005

Being up here I (obviously) talk football with bar codes fans a lot, and obviously the situation with the ruskies gets mentioned. The distaste with the situation is certainly not unique to Gooners, thats for certain. I suppose in some ways it's even worse for the geordies because they've seen a team that was at their level year after year leapfrog artificially to the top table. One last thought - what happened to UEFA's muted rules about clubs being self sufficient?

Mee
April 08, 2005

Cokeheads list of former ‘criminals’ wearing the Arsenal shirt is evidence of something that is common to all football, namely that football reflects the values of the society we live in and is still predominantly a working class game. To suggest however that Chelsea can as a club can be in any way compared to Arsenal is akin to saying that there is no difference between an inner city comprehensive and Eton or Harrow, ask the Hill-Wood‘s.

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

To that end, there is no way they were vindicated at all. The leaking of an insignificant part of the report which on PROPER analysis lends no support to the actual Chelsea claims is an (I thought) rather weak attempt to deflect attention by causing confusion. What surprised me most as I said the day after the game was that no-one made much of the fact that it was absolutely a Mourinho ploy aimed at the second leg and had **** all to do with any impropriety during the first leg. The Drogba decision was utterly understandable. Drogba got away with a couple of silly fouls before he was booked and continued to play in a silly way also complaining too much to Frisk on a number of occasions. He then left his foot in in a way that sees many, many strikers booked in football throughout Europe. To make anything of the booking is again to swallow one of Mourinho's red herrings.

'not former'
April 08, 2005

regarding the allegations ... basically frisk and rijkaard spoke when they shouldnt have and something dodgy happened, no doubt, but chelsea jumped the mark and exagerated and frisk totally denied ... both exagerated in opposite ways so both look like mugs now.

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Wow Niall - unlike you to be quite so far wide of the mark. For a start Chelsea's allegations were that Frisk entered Barcelona's dressing room, then amended to Rikjaard being in his. Both were said to be categoric as having been actually witnessed. Both untrue therefore correctly described as "lies". It is a lie to state something is fact because you know that insinuation based on suspicion is not sufficient. Secondly, Mourinho's allegations were directed at Frisk who the subsequent report suggests was entirely correct and proper in all dealings. Mourinho told Frisk "you cannot do this. I will report you". Whether Rikjaard tried to talk to Frisk or not is completely irrelevant to the lies and incorrect allegations of the Chelsea management team. They were proven to have lied even by the basic geography of the stadium.

goonerguru
April 08, 2005

You didn't quite get that right,should have read,"he is going to go down as the greasest manager ever"

Coke head Merson
April 08, 2005

Three cheers for former Arsenal. Terry, a night club punch up yob...true....Alan Sunderland, the zebera crossing killer...true. Terry the cheat,true. Pires, the diving French git (ask Portsmouth)true. David Hiller, stealing bags from airports, Adams, Merson need I say more? Chelsea buy the title "shock" (Blackburn did that) what did Arsenal do with the 23.5 millon from the Anelka saga, give it to charity, of course not. Yes Arsenal played wonderful football last season, and Im a Yid, Chelsea this season were awful, they will win games,but not friends, but was that not true of Mr Graham's Arsenal side. Take the blinkers off chaps, and why so concerned with everything Chelsea?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005

Muppet - for history to be ancient it has to have happened a long time ago, not be happening now. Ever heard of 'current affairs'. Read anything and you find loads of what's happening now and very little with regards to 'ancient history'. As for Norris, although he was banned the reasons were at best (as described earlier) spurious in an age when the likes of mancs and car thieves were both done for match fixing. Also, it should be pointed out that the total amount (from memory) was about £500, at a time when (his defence) the club 'owed' him vast sums. Not quite the same now, is it?

N5er
April 08, 2005

that should have read ' moving Fulham into Stamford Bridge' of course! BTW talking of SB seems some idiot in their past couldn’t spell otherwise it would have been known as Sandford Bridge! And it has nothing to do with the famous battle up north tho' some chavs will argue black and blue that it does!

Niall
April 08, 2005

Blah blah blah, I don't think anyone can make a case in defence of UEFA after the latest revelations, even if Mourinho wants to influence the referee for the second leg or not. Quite clearly, Chelsea have been vindicated by the revelation that Rijkaard attempted to influence the referee on three occasions during the half time interval and even if Rijkaard didn't physically enter the dressing room, he may as well have - so close was he to the door. Leaving aside that it was Chelsea involved, this does call into question UEFA's handling of the incident since they dismissed the Chelsea claims as "lies" with such vigour. Is there a bias here from UEFA to the old guard big clubs? Why didn't they investigate fully and why have these facts emerged to embarrass UEFA after they had already (I'm sure to their relief) enforced an admittedly pathetic fine and two match ban (excluding walkie talkies supposedly, hmm) on Mourinho and the pathetic fine on the club. Was Frisk influenced by Rijkaard's actions after all, given that the Drogba sending off was indeed the wrong decision? Something not quite right about this whole affair and now its Chelsea who are coming out smelling of roses and Mourinho able to tell his bosses who refused to back him, I told you so.

not really former arsenal
April 08, 2005

the point being , no one mentions it as its ancient history and the same will be with chelsea.If gooners kept their traps shut and didnt mention 'Romans dodgy money' . Show respect and it will come back to you yea .And how can you critisise the way jose wants football played, you have to realise he is going to go down as the greatesed manager ever. His tactics , man managment skills , methodoligy and everything else is a cut above all that has been before him, he is so astute in every department its mind blowing. Bayern were solid and played narrow defensively so the best option was to use the targer man (drogba) and play off him , its not about route 1 and being boring, jose will do whatever it takes to get the job done ! he is the special one.Not meaning to start arguements ... is any of you coming to the bridge 20/04 ?

Karlos
KarlosIRL@aol.com
April 08, 2005

Just a thought in relation to the Spurs game later this month. As this is the last time Arsenal will wear Red and White at Highbury (thanks to next years 'Redcurrant' strip) against our North London rivals, I thought it might be fitting to have some a display of some sort, highlighting our history of Red and White in the North London Derby's - maybe a card display of red and white with the top tier of the northbank saying '71 and the lower with '04 highlighting our dramatic league victories against Spurs in Red and White would be appropriatejust a suggestion and maybe others could forward suggestions to Redaction (the fans group) to mark this occasion

N5er
April 08, 2005

Former Arsenal (as if!) dear oh dear its haul out poor old Henry Norris time is it? Thought I'd heard them all about old Henry but now theres 'match fixing' and 'bribing the council' to contend with is there? Well run along old chap and find us just one link relating to these allegations. In fact the only ‘significant findings' of the commission set up to pursue financial irregularities against Norris was that between 1921 and 1924 his chauffer had been paid by the club and that in 1926 the club had paid for his motor car” Hardly earth shattering hey? BTW a little bit of a (ahem) history lesson for you. Without the great man your poxy club would never have been formed. Had Norris taken up the offer of moving your chavs into Stamford Bridge then your team would be Fulham!

goonerguru
April 08, 2005

Henry Norris might have been a lot of things but he never robbed a whole country of all there wealth and then ****** off.

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

And "Former Arsenal" says it all. What makes you think anyone would listen to anything about football from someone who manages to become a former fan of anyone? The worst "fans" in the game. If you are "former Arsenal" you never were in the first place.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

I would imagine just about all Arsenal fans have heard of Norris, and to even think of comparing his record to the corruption of the current Chelsea regime is plainly laughable.

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

So while I am more than happy to not discuss Chelsea (and also quite happy not to watch them along with the many other TV viewers that haven't been bothering since Christmas and are making Sky **** themselves). I will continue to react to the unpleasant tongueing that some people insist on giving them. Its not even as if they put you in a dilemma by playing attractive football. They are on the whole "hoof it" merchants. So I cant quite work out what this niceness is about. If it is a desire to be seen as "grown up" dont bother. No-one cares. You can and should be as childish as you like when it comes to football. If it is through an actual admiration then it is plain dirty. Those who say it is Arsenal's fault for being inconsistent are stupid. Chelsea can break all records. If you think we would have won the title by defending a little bit better you are kidding yourselves.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

Surname means nothing to me, Niall. Again, I had difficulty not throwing up when I read some of the posts about Chelsea. As EEG, Exiled and Cannon Balls have said in various ways, they are a revolting club supported by vile people. I like N5er's idea of G14 forming a breakaway league and Chelsea not being invited into it. By the way, just got a text from Gaz who's gone to Highbury today and someone from the ticket office told him that our allocation of 32000 for the semi-final is now very close to being sold out. Yesterday he told me that he'd read that of the four semi-finalists, only Newcastle had sold out at that point, so maybe Man Utd's two-bob muppets from Devon, Kent and Sussex are losing a bit of enthusiasm these days.

East End Gooners
April 08, 2005

The people in control have been riding roughshod over other clubs and the authorities - to the extent they organise a meeting with one of our key players which can have no other effect but to destabilise him two days before one of our biggest games while at the same time their manager complains that he is "disgusted" by approaches to him mid-season because he is concentrating on the season. And then we have the toadying GunGun lauding a "fair and reasonable" post by gaz from OZ which tells us how hard done by Chelsea have been while completely ignoring (or more likely missing the point) that Mourinho uses these "issues" as a way of putting pressure on second leg refs (as he did in the Carling Cup semi as well) and ignoring the success of a tactic that managed to get a ref like Collina to have a pony game culminating in missing a blatent act of cheating that kept Chelsea in the competition in the first place.

Former Arsenal
highburynomore@hotmail.com
April 08, 2005

You guys talk about 'ethics' in football and rant about chelsea? Are you joking ? Being Arsenal fans im sure none of you have heard of Henry Norris , the crook , the match fixer , the business man who brought south londons woolwich arsenal and moved them up north by bribing the council to get permission to do so ? No one mentions this now , as its ancient history , and no one will remember Romans money in 50 years, they will just be the great chelsea team that dominated the 2000's so stop sulking and talking b0ll0x as you know im correct.Check google and look at Arsenals corrupt history, sp*rs are the only real team from north london and it pains to say it as i hate sp*rs .You do not have a fair and hard worked history , how do you think the marble halls of highbury where payed for ??? You were made big by a crook who bribed, fixed , cheated and even moved and renamed the club to get success and to make himself money. Arsenal have and have always had no atmosphere at games , no nothing fans , all woman and kids have always supported arsenal ,as they are the club to follow when you know nothing about the game. You and I both know its true .And when you leave the library and go to cashburden you will have a poorer atmosphere than before as all the fans from different stands and tiers will be mixed up ! dont critisise clubs when you are not ones to talk !

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

See its hard not to react to the kind of nonsense you see on here. OK - I know we have Cannon Balls but the rest of us dont bother to post about Chelsea until you see oily cringing "being big about it" "appreciation" on an Arsenal site. It is ****ing annoying. They are and have always been a nasty club. John Terry and others are a few years down the line from figting in nightclubs and baring their arses to American tourists on September 11. The financial approach being taken is hugely damaging to the game (as well as destroying its spirit and history it has direct financial implications in re-inflating a transfer market and wage culture that was in the process of a sensible correction).

Niall
April 08, 2005

Come on Sean O'Phist is clearly a wind up, re-read the surname.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

Sean O'Phist, I've never moaned before about people who rarely post themselves (and thus contribute very little to its content) but read it, and then have the utter cheek to do a post moaning about what others choose to write about, but I was astonished by your smug attitude. If you're not happy with the forum's content, do you think you should provide us with a list a topics that can be discussed and everything else gets deleted by any moderators?

Gunfire
April 08, 2005

Sorry Alex but your knocking of JAR is wrong headed. The guy has bundles of talent and has shown in recent games some real will to win. I wathed him in Spain and he was immense. Your ascertion that we'll have 17 million on the bench is wrong. His fee was less than that. The figure refers to appearence fees and bonus payemnts. I hope he stays.

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

I had to smile on reading the quotes from John Terry moaning about the Ballack penalty that's put the Chavs chances of getting in to the next round in jeopardy. It sounds like a typical load of Chavs Ballacks . Terry says that: "There'taking the p**s and that Ballack thing." Yes John like for instance fouling your opponents GK so that you can get a free header on goal like in the Barca game ???. Without that bit of gamesmanship you would not be in the competition now. Both incidents are in the same category - it's called cheating. The poor old Chavs who are starting to believe all of the English media hype about themselves (remember when we had it?) are not impressing every one. Owen Hargreaves reckons that they are only long-ball merchants and Arsenal play better football, in fact he rates Chelsea only on a par with Scotish club Celtic football wise. Bayern Munich beat Celtic in the CL earlier 3-1 in Germany, and Hargreaves says that they can do the same to the Chavs when they turn up there having conceded 2 goals at the Bridge to the Germans - and having lost their last two away games in the CL and also having failed to keep a clean sheet in any competition since January. This competion is notorious for teams having scored big at home getting turned over away - when they have conceded goals also in the home leg.

Alex
April 08, 2005

Agree with previous posting about Babel of Ajax. Looks real quality. Like a young Klivert, strong, fast, and great feet. Saw him last night against Heerenveen. 18, and already in the first team of Ajax and Holland! If Aliadiere goes (or even Reyes- I still hold hope), he would be perfect for Arsenal, but it won't happen. Still unimpressed by Maxwell, can't see why he's worth 8M. Mascherano (Saw him play aginst Argentinian Arsenal) would also make a great signing as Gilberto is are only truly defensive MF, but is small and it also won't happen. Like the sound of Toulanlan of Nantes (though I havn't seen him). I think another quality French signing could be great for us, could rekindle are distingtive style of play: fluid passing and movement. Think of another Henry, Viera, Pires, Wiltord (in his better moments), Anelka joining the mix. I think our style has been weakened a bit by the introduction of RVP and JAR (when they play obviously), and has become a little more incoherant as a result. They will adapt in time probably, but their schooling is different. Reyes incisting on short passes in tight situations (which never come of) for example is typically Spanish. RVP needs to learn more from Dennis, but has not yet gelled like he did at Feyenoord (he already has a UEFA Cup medal, which is more than most of his team mates have to show for from their exploits in Europe!)

MARCUS
April 08, 2005

This is quite a good Chelsea site now!

Alex
April 08, 2005

The Ryan Garry case is one of many. Arsene has talked about his concern over so many young players having major surgery, while they are still growing. He then, however, talks about his young players being 'physically prepared' for the PL by the club, while they are still growing. Too much is expected and demanded on such young frames, and too much pressure is placed on thier shoulders, especially the young lads who already from a young age are supporting thier families (this is the reason some give for such a high rate of heart trouble suffered by African players). For every one Cesc, their are many more that fail, and I wonder what price they pay for trying?

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

Jose Mourinho takes a two week holiday in Bankok on returning to England after a few days he notices that his penis is turning blue and shrinking. Alarmed by this development he goes to see a specialist to find out what the problem is. The doctor takes a look at Jose's todger and shaking his head sadly says: " You have got Bankok Brucellosis Berry-Berry. "I had another man in here with this disease last year - there is no known cure. "Your penis will have to be amputated that is all i can do." Mourinho rushes back to his office at Stamford Bridge and sits head in hands sobbing into a Chelsea scarf that he is clutching to his face. Suddenly Peter Kenyon the ManU supporter director of Chelsea walks in: "What's oop chuck?." he asks. Mourinho relates his sad tale to Kenyon, asking him: "What shall i do?." Kenyon laughs. "I had the same problem last year - the doctors will tell you anything to get more money out of you - don't believe a word of it." "Phew!, thanks Pete", replies Jose Mourinho: "So i do not have to have my penis amputated then". Kenyon smiles: "Of course not Jose it falls of by it's self in the end."

Alex
April 08, 2005

Looks like Reyes is staying after all. He's obviously realised that RM don't want him, and we're his best option. He won't be sold because we'll never get all our money back. This could have bad repercussions. I don't think he's good for team spirit, and I don't think his 'this will do for now' attitude will go down too well either. I would prefer him to go, to leave some room for Quincy, Aliadiere etc., because if he does not improve markedly, we will have 17M on the bench week in, week out.

Alex
April 08, 2005

I also don't have anything against the Chelsea players. The purring in the press about Lampard,''if he was foreign we would all be saying how technically gifted he is''(ITV, BM game), is starting to grate. It's because he British that all the fuss is being made. But that's it. I think that's why their game against us was so good. No bad blood, no nasty tackles, no cheating, just two teams trying to win.

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

Strange how these first time Arsenal supporters keep popping up all with the same message - be nice to Chelsea. Blimey it's supposed to be an Arsenal board this - why the next thing you know we will be getting messsages urging on the 'Boys in Green' and worse still even an unlikely silly discussion about whether Damien Duff is world-class!!!; or even a lecture on grammar from Profesor Mick or one yet again from GunGun on his favourite topic -Chelsea urging us to follow the advice of the first time posters and not be nasty to them, you know i have a feeling that were we pouring gushing praise upon Mourinho and co that Mick-GunGun and all-sorts would not be telling us to stick to posting only about Arsenal.

old man of hoy
April 08, 2005

Let us hope that Ryan Garry's battle with his terrible injuries is a winning one. If ever a player deserved some good luck it is that young man. I wonder if Chelsea's success is being as agonised over by the fans of other clubs as it is by ours? I imagine many neutrals are happy to see somebody other than United orArsenal win the title. Some of us seem to be taking a very high moral ground when it comes to the Chels - for me it is simply about respecting their manager and players, not the club, its owner,executives or fans. On the playing side i accept they have had a great season - if that is distasteful then i am a man of distaste. An elderly Italian Jewish man wanted to unburden his guilty conscience by talking to his Rabbi. "Rabbi, during World War II, when the Germans entered Italy, I pretended to be a 'goy" and changed my name from Levi to Spamoni and I am alive today because of it." "Self preservation is important and the fact that you never forgot that you were a Jew is admirable," said the Rabbi. "Rabbi, a beautiful Jewish woman knocked on my door and asked me to hide her from the Germans. I hid her in my attic and they never found her." "That was a wonderful thing you did and you have no need to feel guilty." "It's worse Rabbi. I was weak and allowed her to repay me for my efforts with her sexual favours." "You were both in great danger and would have suffered terribly if the Germans had found her. There is a favourable balance between good and evil and you will be judged kindly. Give up your feelings of guilt." "Thank you, Rabbi. That's a great load off my mind. But I have one more question." "And what is that?" "Should I tell her the war is over?"

mcquilkie
April 08, 2005

American, I think it's just coincidence that Kewell and Viduka are injured: they've both had relatively injury-free careers until the last 12 months or so. There are still a few healthy Aussies running around in the Premiership - we can look forward to tackling Lucas Neill and Brett Emerton in the Cup semi next week, for instance. Anyway, I'm quite happy for Viduka to miss out on Saturday's match, what with his record of scoring winning goals against us (2001/02 and 2002/03; both at Highbury, strangely enough).

N5er
April 08, 2005

Hey and believe it or not I hold no bitterness to the Chelsea team themselves. They have deserved their success this year and its strange but I don't even dislike any of their players! Its purely the economic skullthuggery and unrealistic financial muscle that they are imposing on the rest of football that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This from a club that have only one year since the formation of Chelsea Village in the mid 90's made a profit and that was from the sales of flats in 1998/99. I wouldn't even mind if Roman could be seen as some kind of sponsorship benefactor of the club as in donating cash which makes its way to the P&L. They have Group losses of over 130M at 30 Jun 2004 and likely to be close on 200M by this seasons end. They state they intend to break even by 2010 which is a complete joke. They may not make a monetary loss that season but for them to be in the black overall by that time is an impossible dream!

N5er
April 08, 2005

The business of football has changed dramatically over the past decade or so and not all for the better. Its dog eat dog out there and fortunately the Arsenal board have managed to grab a fair slice of the corporate pie themselves. That said I'm not sure that clubs being able to negotiate their own broadcasting deals (as they do in Spain and Italy) will do the English game any good whatsoever. With regard the neanderthal in SW London I find their whole business premise particularly 'vulgar'. As if throwing conventional economic business practice out of the window is not enough their blatant disregard for established footballing protocols and ethics is a disgrace. It would be ironic if G14 (what with their long time aim at bringing in an imposed salary cap dependant on % of turnover) formed their own European super league and excluded the Chavs.

Alex
April 08, 2005

I wonder if Jose's thinking is win at all costs this season in order to create a winning atmosphere at a club which has never really had one, then as that takes hold, style and ethics can become more important? Fergy has a similar ethic, when you're down, or up against superior opposition, cheat, then form will follow. This is what they did to us this season, though Fergys team always cheat a bit, though are behaviour left something to be desired at Highbury. Having said all that, look at Jose's Porto teams. I think the way Jose has set himself up as the 'next Fergy' is very clever. He is not setting himself in opposition like Wenger, just making it obvious that his time has come. This must be what all the buddy, buddy, sharing wine, 'wen I've won what he has' routine is all about. He's even better at cheating, and calling Fergys bluff when he cheats. All right, all right enough about Chelsea. Mee- agree. American, keep them coming. Also thanks for the Ryan Garry story. Also agree- ouch! Team for Saturday- Lehmann, Cole, Senderos, Toure, Lauren, Reyes, Viera, Gilberto, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry. Blimy! thats almost a first choice eleven!

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

'Boro isn't playing too well. What's up with the Aussie players? Kewell at LFC, Viduka at 'Boro. Can one of our Oz posters comment on that? I expect us to win and win comfortably. I hope I'm not jinxing us. The injury gave Henry the rest he needed and we've got most of our first team back. I'd like a win and a clean sheet if that's not asking too much. **** I don't think anyone spent much time talking about the merits of their punishment. The Chelsea issue is larger than that. Its a 'future state of football' issue. It affects ManYoo more than us I think. We've learned to build a team on unknown players and turning them into stars. Man Yoo only know how to be established stars and they'll suffer more. **** The Arsenal of the last month is a different Arsenal. I'd be very worried if I were Man Yoo. The Bolton FA Cup away win sticks out more than anything else. Fat Sam was sure he'd get to the semis or at the very least get a replay. Then a clean sheet against Blackburn away again. Man Yoo had the Rovers at home and got a nil nil draw. Unlucky. But still we were just dominating away. I have a strange feeling we're going to finish the season very very strong. Everyone will be healthy and the injured players will be against clus with tired legs. The youth have made our bench stronger. Bringing Cesc off the bench may even be an improvement and make us stronger in some games. I really think we'll beat Chelsea at the Bridge.

Alex
April 08, 2005

Though I of course agree that it is sickening that Chelsea have used 'blood money' to buy success, ethics in modern football is a hard argument to make. We have made a lot of money from our involvement with Nike for example, which has a shameful human rights record. Sweat shops, no unions, child labour etc. Also, though I agree that Man U and Arsenal have spent money that they have earned, and the lack of competition in the PL is more down to the likes of Liverpool, Newcastle, and Spurs not keeping up, the splitting up of TV money has some doubts hanging over it. The formation of the PL itself, which I assume the Arsenal chairmen were in favour of, has not been exactly good for the lower league football, just ask Wrexham! Incedently if you want to have Arsenal shirts without supporting Nike, the well known (I hope this is not seen as advertising) 'old fashioned' shirt co. has far more ethical manufacturing practices.

Sean O'Phist
April 08, 2005

First time poster, long time observer. Aren't there any moderators on this site? Why do we have to read all this nonsense about Germans, sausages and Chelsea? I come on here to read about Arsenal. What do you think the team will be this weekend? Blimey, wouldn't surprise me if someone started posting about philosophy next.

****
April 08, 2005

Ballacks and Bayerns consistant diving are also a threat to football. Arsenal could well be on the receiving end of this kind of German gamesmanship soon. And if Beckenbauer becomes Uefa boss, the refs will do all they can to please him. It does not mean they will be corrupt but they will be keen to keep in with him.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005

You know I'm getting pig sick of being told how to feel about the chavs. I hate 'em, always have and always will. End of.

GunGun
April 08, 2005

You see Gaz`s message from Oz is the way to discuss Chelsea. Matter of fact and level-headed. No hate or violence or threatening noises. Forum, please adhere to this style which befits Arsenal much more. Sleep well, Cannon Balls.

Mee
April 08, 2005

American: When the rest of the forum descends into a great blanket of blue gloom, your posts are characterised by their unwavering enthusiasm, belief, optimism and faith in all things Arsenal - keep them coming!

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

We were 3rd the year before but we weren't really the faves for the league if I recall.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

Wenger took the league by storm in '98, unforseen. Chelsea doing it this season. Forseen to a certain extent but not to the degree that they have done it. Next season..yes a cliche` but even with the money I think they'll see it hard to repeat. This could be different if they buy well in the summer. Its not so much who they can afford, that's not a problem, they can pay any transfer fee and wage to any player on the earth. Its finding the players that will work in their system. If they do get Gerrard, Adriano or other players that have been mentioned they could be even stronger if that's possible. 2 things they have to see if they can overcome. 1) A match or two that nicks away their confidence and 2) injuries to Lampard or Terry or even Cech.

gaz from Oz
April 08, 2005

I note on Soccernet that in fact the Barcelona coach did approach the ref at half time. Chelsea and Mourinho have been hard done by over this issue. UEFA have taken action because it did not occur in the dressing room as alleged by Chelsea. It did happen and in my view the second half decisions went against Chelsea. But UEFA have taken no action against Barca. If it had happened to Arsenal I am sure we would have complained & I think this is too often a problem. Man U have been accused of confronting refs at half time and no action is taken against them. Obviously the FA and UEFA support this type of action. But maybe only if you are from one of the big clubs. Yesterdays penalty in the last minute against Chelsea was again a disgrace. I am not a Chelsea lover but merely want some consistency. I know that this could quite easily have been us in the same position. Chelsea will win the league and deserve to do so. I don't think Arsenal supporters can have any complaints - simply they were consistent and we weren't. But it would be nice for us to play them off the park and stick away our chances when we play them.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

Exiled, how did we get in when Man Yoo and Liverpool were already in it then? lol. Surely Gill, Kenyon and Fergie would have said hell no.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

Well, we may not have as many footie violence incidents as Engalnd but when we do, we go over the top: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7420306/

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

By the way, I know my grammar is horrible. I'm too impatient and write as I'm thinking without spell checking or checking grammar. I'll try to slow down and write more patiently. Apologies.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

Mo, why is it okay for a Russian oligarch to do with a west London club okay, but if the same thing is done by a multinational corporation or a government its widely criticized (as well it should, including the ones here)?

david.d
April 08, 2005

with the news that senderos is fit i sincerely hope that arsene brings him straight back into the team. it is too much of a coincidence that against sheff utd(0-0) portsmouth(3-0) bayern munich(1-0) bolton (1-0) and blackburn(1-0) we did not concede a goal. common denominator? senderos played in every game. i know its only early days but i think we have an outstanding centre back on our hands who will get better and better. surely arsene will bring him back in at the expense of cygan. what happens on saturday will give an indication of how highly senderos is rated by the boss. im not saying wenger doesnt fancy him as a player because it is obvious he does but if senderos comes in at cygan's expense then that will be the biggest indication that senderos has pushed cygan into fourth place centre back and moved up a place to no 3 behind sol and kolo. cygan does a good job for us and gets undeserved criticsm sometimes but its time for him to pushed behind senderos. we need a win against middlesbrough to keep utd at bay who should beat norwich but it wont be easy. it looks like viera and gilberto will be reunited once again which bodes well. keep winning and 2nd place is ours. COME ON ARSENAL!!!

Dave
April 08, 2005

You see. You despise Chelsea and their financial power. But you fail to recognize that Beckenbauer will support this big money industry as he is involved in multi-national business contracts worth millions and millions. Platini is the cleaner man for Uefa believe you me.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005

G14/17 - the chavs won't get in. As I understand it to join you have to be invited after a unanimous vote of member clubs.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

I wish I could find the link but earlier in the day on newsnow, search word: arsenal, there was a report that Sol's brohter, John was arrested for a fight with a uni student who was harangueing him saying Sol was gay. What does Dido say about it? I remember during a FA cup game a couple years ago a streaker ran naked on the pitch with a painted on sign on his back saying 'Sol likes men'. My response to it all is, he could come on the pitch in a dress as far as I was concerned as long as he performed his duties. **** Long Time Gooner, I think its just rumor. If not this year, then at least in a year or two the G14 group would award a club that has performed as they have membership. We got in with only being English champions and CL quarter finalists. If its seen that Chelsea are going to be a CL qualifying club each season they would be offered a membership. I think what hurt Leeds was that they couldn't maintain their league form as well after '00 and obviously their financial situation, plus there already being 3 English sides in the organization. If Chelsea are continued to be excluded the top clubs have seen their rise as ominous. Ominous in the meaning that its more than just football. Ominous in the tactics they are employing at the moment (feeder club scheme, rants by the manager, tapping up Cole, etc.)

Mo
footballforever2005@hotmail.co.uk
April 08, 2005

Hello, I have recently come across this website, but have noticed how sour and bitter some of arsenal fans have become. I think it is a shame trying to knock down Chelsea, when they have done well this season. I think that more arsenal fans should focus on what a great club they have and the great players they have as well, not forgetting their manager and their new stadium to look forward to.

Long Time Gooner
April 08, 2005

American Gooner. Fairly recently but can't remember where. I think that it was part of a broader consideration of a breakaway from FIFA/UEFA. Probably just journo gossip.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

I meant Chelsea's money will dry up, not Man Yoo in my long post. ;-) **** Well, it could all have been worse. What if Roman had bought Tottenham?!! Imagine them in Chelsea's position? I cringe at the thought.

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

LTgooner, its actually 17 clubs, but I guess they don't want to spend the money on changing the stationary. Where have you read this? I would have thought it would have been fairly big news and made some of the online footie blogs at least.

Yorkshire
April 08, 2005

N5er. From Arsenal.com supporters forum meetings (three back I think)....How many season tickets will be available? 44,000 (Of these, approximately 2,000 will be in Executive Boxes and approximately 7,000 will be at Club level)....

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

Rich, regarding the player of the year. If this was a Chinese new year it would the the Year of the Chelsea Rat..haha...its their year. No one will give Henry any thing, even if he breaks the PL record and scores 35 goals. Every one sees it as the Chav's year and they'll get the honors. I think Lamps is a sure bet. Terry may split votes but its him. **** Niall, regarding the passing through a brick wall post. It's why I like Yakubu, he's young (24 I think) and can play our game, one touch, footie and in a bind can be a target man in the box and get those long headers that Drogba was heading into the path of Lampard and company. I am not saying we should adopt that style. We should play our game first and foremost, but there comes a time when you need a goal and the only way to get one is a cross in the air into the box or a volley to a big target man who can play with his back to the goal and chest it down without being pushed off the ball and lay off to someone coming down one of the channels. He is that man. I also think he'll be okay with not being a regular starter. As long as he gets minutes. The opportunity to win the PL or FA cup and play in Europe will induce him and make him patient.

Long Time Gooner
April 08, 2005

American Gooner. I think that Chelsea have already been invited to join G14 (and the number 14 is becoming meaningless)

AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005

If Chelsea makes it to the semi and win the league and are at least champions or runners up for the next couple years, I wonder if they will be invited to join G14? Their being offered a position or not, will tell me a lot. On another but similar note, Dortmund is part of the G14 and if their financial crisis brings them into administration I wonder if they'll be the first club kicked out of the group? **** I despise Chelsea for similar reasons I despise Real Madrid who got an indirect government subsidyf via the stadium and has recently bought players solely for marketing reasons and not footballng reasons. If that's not a slap in the fac to the game i've adopted, nothing is. Man Yoo may have been merchandising whores but Chelsea has even made their rise seem more pure. For similar reasons I never supported they NY Yankees here despite living in NY for part of my life. When I didn't know a thing about football (and some would say its still so ; -) I never considered Man Yoo. It was the only club I heard of and it was the biggest. Their arrogant support where I watched games made it easy as well. All that said, they have played some of most consistent football, if not always entertaining, that I've seen in my short viewing life. Some day though, hopefully sooner or later, the money will dry up. They'll go into administration when it happens and opposing fans will remind them how they got their trophies when they sing about it. **** I've always maintained if we lose the title to Man Yoo we were out-managed and if we lose it to Chelsea we were outspent. **** I met a former 'headhunter' from the hooligan days when I lived in Asia. He owned a bar there. The stories! The scars! I heard most of them were middle class kids from the home counties. Is that true?

Long Time Gooner
April 08, 2005

Nothing to do with football this time but just an observation about how life can suck. Took my car in for service and mot recently. Not happy with resultant performance and took it back in yesterday. They claim that they fixed it but I shall never know. They took it out on road test and wrote it off in a crash whilst doing a dodgy overtaking manoeuvre. Nice one!

Steve Martin
April 08, 2005

Something I cna never understand about Arsenal, we have some 30.000 tickets for the semi-final, they ahve put them on general sale, why don't they say how many are left, if what Gaz says is true 25.000 sold then they are more likely to sell the rest, what's all the secret about...

Sabir
April 08, 2005

Enjoyed reading that little story about Rocky Rocastle. I used to love watching him when I was a kid. I've never liked Chelsea but I remember when I first started work (1995), there was a lesbian Chelsea fan working with me who absolutely HATED us. Boring Arsenal, cheating Arsenal, anything negative and it was Arsenal's fault. She used to cut out the Arsenal reports from her Guardian newspaper because Arsenal's name on her paper made it dirty! That season I went to the home game (Wise equalised in the last minute). I met some some of their fans after the game and they were some of the nasties smug ******** I've ever met in my life. Just a horrible bunch. I've never particularly liked Liverpool fans either - there were loads of them in school all gloryhunters like the Man U fans later. QUESTION - For the older forumites. An Arsenal colleague of mine was telling me about his hate for an old Spuds player called Pat Van Den Howe. Apparently during the Graham Rix testimonial, he gave the North Bank fans a w***** sign! Was anyone from here in the North Bank that day and do they remember this incident?

Disgusted in Siberia
wewantourmoolaback.org
April 08, 2005

This is an appeal to the good people of England. This man Mr. Abimbob***h, he came in Siberia and made us promises and took our oil. Then he and his mafia pals took all of our money. Now we have to ride donkeys to work in the freezing cold, and we have no hospital. But we hear how he is in England buying shirts for his friend Lampard and Terry. And so some of you English really, really like hime. Stop thief !!! Please, help us get our money back.Dos Vidanya. Disgusted in Siberia.

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 08, 2005

Totally agree with all the negative posts on chelscum. I hate what they're doing and as a football Club I cant stand them. As for the semi we've sold over 25,000 of our 30,000 tickets before the general sale. Come on Arsenal.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005

Cannon - got to say I don't think he should be over greatful to Bruce (in particular). Another way of looking at it is that Bruce took on a player that he wanted, knowing full well he'd only be around a while. As soon as the (obvious) term was handed down Bruce starts bleating about him being an Arsenal player not a Birmingham one... Now he's released early Bruce wants him back. OK, I'm obviously not defending Pennant at all, but Bruce and Birmingham hardly covered themselves in glory here either, especially after all the guff they came out with about how they'd help him (and the laughable inference that Arsenal hadn't tried) when he first arrived.

Wirral Gooner
April 08, 2005

Mee is correct. Chavski are new money with all the lack of grace and history that this suggests. However they did stuff BM and we did not!

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

Careful, Mee, Mick is going to get angry with you posting that hate-filled tirade against wonderful Roman and co.

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

What planet you wonder is Pennant living on?. The guy get's three months in prison for drunk driving, and despite knowing that because of a previous conviction and suspended sentence he will get sent-down Steve Bruce takes him on at Birmingham. Even visiting him in prison and assuring him that on his release he will still have a job at Brum. So what thanks does he get when after this helped to secure Pennants early release from Pennant?. On offering a contract to Pennant,Bruce is informed by him and the world at large that Pennant will have to think about it, he really want's to play for Arsenal!. Wenger informing the wayward-winger that he is not wanted at Highbury and his future is at Birmingham will have put a dent in the petulant Pennants over-sized ego. Pennant should be thankful that he had the help that he got from Bruce instead of kicking him in the teeth - somehow i do not believe that we have heard the last of Pennant. And i am not refering to his on field activities.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

Oh well, I'm off for dinner - and guess what I've got today. Yep, that's right, a plateful of lovely porkers with grilled tomatos and fried onions.

Mee
April 08, 2005

Wengers assertion that Chelsea’s success is ‘artificial’ is correct. Abramovich’s wealth has seriously distorted the transfer market to the point where they will show an interest in a player simply to raise that players market value whilst not seeking to buy the player themselves. Arsenal, have reached their current standing, through prudent management, efficient husbandry, and the demographics of a city location which ensures a relatively large fan base. Other clubs satisfying similar criteria have not enjoyed our success, Man City, Everton, Sheffield Wednesday to name a few are struggling to keep pace. Chelsea, pre-Abramovich were in a similar position, Ken Bates’ grandiose schemes had virtually bankrupted the club and now with barrels of Sibneft oil raining down on them, the bad management and disappointing playing record have been expunged at a stroke. They now occupy the same playing field as Arsenal, the difference is it took us over 100 years to find ourselves where we are today, not five minutes. I think this is what angers our fans about Chelsea, there’s is a ‘loadsamoney’ brash, glitzy kind of instant success, celebrated by their fans as though their lineage was as proud and distinguished as ours.

Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005

Mick, thank you for the grammar lesson and pointing out that i had placed or typed the i in perceived incorrectly. But oh dear!, on checking your own posts i find that they are full of errors. Cannon Ball? no S,the name is plural not singular.In another one you spell Ther no E and mesmorized is actually spelt mesmerized. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses Mick... I am sorry to hear that you will not be reading anymore of my posts, never mind,i will continue reading yours i like a good laugh,keep them coming !.

Mickey Sloan
April 08, 2005

I'm not being funny but there's gotta be a better picture of steve for this page?

Rich
April 08, 2005

Moving away from the Chelsea arguments, Arsenal linked with 25 Year-old Lyon CB Eric Abidal, seems a more typical Wenger signing but having said that it seems that the players who actually are signed for us are the ones we don't expect, Gilberto and Cygan when all the talk was Hofland and Van Bommel, Flamini came from nowhere, Lehmann was hardly mentioned, Reyes seemed a quick swoop even though we'd been linked. Even RVP after it seemed the deal was dead. Seems AW prefers to keep his targets as a tight secret, no surprise with Chelsea and Man U trying to gazump us. Damn it I mentioned Chelsea.... It could be an interesting way of narrowing down who we may sign in the summer!

Mick
April 08, 2005

Well said, Bernard. At last a bit of humour from you concerning Germany.

Niall
April 08, 2005

Seconds out....round one.

Mick
April 08, 2005

Cannon Ball, first learn how to spell properly. Look up how to spell "perceive" correctly before you come back with your vile hate-ridden filth. I am not a Chelsea supporter but I am ashamed of the comments being made here in the name of Arsenal supporters. You have no style, Cannon. You are a bitter little man. Look at Steve Martin`s and Niall`s postings. They are critical but moderate. Better look up these words as well, Cannon. You repeat yourself over and over again, slating everyone viciously who does not agree. You are the forum bully no.1. I think you have a problem. I am going to ignore you from now on. You are too low class for this forum.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

Just to prove I don't worship everthing German, my tastes are more for the traditional banger.

Niall
April 08, 2005

Frankfurger Bernard?

Darren
April 08, 2005

I assume you prefer Bratwurst to the traditional banger, eh Bernard?

Bernard
April 08, 2005

I love sausages. I saw Michael Jackson at the Rainbow, Finsbury Park - don't ask me why.

Niall
April 08, 2005

Thanks Darren, I had sausages for lunch!!

Darren
April 08, 2005

Bernard - it was a month or so before - July 88

Darren
April 08, 2005

EEG - If he knew what those sausages went through he would never have eaten it, trust me!!! No - he ate, I smoked. Boiling hot day it was and whisper it quietly but it was a Michael Jackson concert.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

Or Darren, was it before either the Tottenham and Bayern Munich pre-season games that were discussed earlier?

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Was that his pre-match meal before we played Luton then Darren? And having a fag with his sausage and chips? Nice. Things have changed under Wenger.

N5er
April 08, 2005

Yorkshire I'm more inclined to agree with your revised figures on Highbury redevelopment. I've found in the past that Edelman seems confused with his figures sometimes! Also seen a number of 6750 Club level seats bandied around. Your 7000 figure for Director level seats seems right. How many seats are taken up by the 150 exec boxes? Do you know? I have calculated between 1850 and 2000.

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Cheers Darren - I was quite pleased with that phrase.

Darren
April 08, 2005

Steve M - But winning has to be everything for Chelsea, otherwise the project is a complete and utter failure taking into consideration the scale of investment. George's title winning teams were never as dull as people like to remind us. Any teams that had Rocky, Thomas, Davis, Smith, Limpar, Marwood amongst others on top of their game would never have been dull. Infact the midfield of that era was one of my favourite Arsenal memories.Infact, I met Rocky at Wembley stadium in the summer of 88. I was working in one of the burger bars earning a bit of spare cash and he bought some food from the stall I worked in. Sat on the grass verge having a fag whilst he ate his sausage and chips adn chatted for a about 10 mins and he told me they really fancied the league the coming year. He was right wasn't he? I also remember his girlfriend telling him to get a move on and he told her to be patient as he was chatting to me. Lovely memory.

East End Gooner
April 08, 2005

Leave it alone Mick. I am not mesmerised by them. I watched it impassively yesterday in a pub full of people I am sure were supporting United a year or two ago. I just dont expect to come on here and be told how ****ing wonderful they are. I am going to react to that. You call it sour. Fine. I wonder if people would have felt the same if it was Charlton. That would have been much better. I said I didn't like it all last season and we whipped their arses. It was heading one way and will get worse. So sorry if I dont buy the embarassing "too much hate" lines. To me there is not nearly enough hatred for what is happening there, though I am confident that in time there will be.

steve martin
April 08, 2005

So the manager come in, keeps faith with the Old Guard, wins the title three time in his seven years but fails to win it back to back, this seaosn being his best chance... During this time nearly 8 years he has spent less than Chelsea have in the last year, yet along come Chelsea, millions to throw about win the league, spend even more and win the league two years running, now tell me that is what it's all about... One works hard with next to nothing, the other wins the footballing lottery and has an easy life...

Yorkshire
April 08, 2005

Bernard. I think you may be right about 2 seats per membership but Arsenal.com stated....The Diamond Club offers 160 members the ultimate match day experience... Can't see a guest being classed as a Diamond member?? I say I think you're right as Club level has 6,700 seats. If the 160 members have two seats as you say, then that brings the number to a round 7,000 (near enough). Edelman has said there will be 7,000 director level seats. Anyway, I am still waiting for my invite. As for the empty seats at Cardiff for the 2003 CS. This was becasue of our opponents. The Police refused Arsenal permission to do a general sale as man utd had sold out and they knew that many man u fans would buy tickets in the Arsenal end. I understand that they relented and let a one day general sale commence, briefly advertised on Arsenal.com then removed after 24 hours. Hence the many empty seats. If you remember the Liverpool CS before, that was allowed to go general up to match day and we just about sold out.We would still have many empty seats for the semi if Arsenal could only sell seats on general for one day against a quick advert on Arsenal.com. Obviously the greater importance of the semi-final is a factor as well.

Bernard
April 08, 2005

Darren, in my view the way they've come into money - and are using it - just means they do not deserve their success, because what happens on the pitch is very dependant on what has happened to them off it. Can anyone see Gerrard not playing for Chelsea next season, because I think he will be, and no doubt a few others too. Which will improve a side that'll win the league extremely comfortably this season.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Darren, no one can blame the Chelsea players, you cannot argue that they have done well this season, yet for that amount of money, so they should... However, when we won the league in 1989 and 1991, we were seen as boring, yet we were much more entertaining that this Chelsea side and we scored more goals... The derseve the title for coming first, but in footballing terms, there is nothing so poor as spending fortunes to wins things... EEG with his analogy about Ben Johnson sums it up, take drugs win, but whats the point, when you have a massive advatage, where's the sportmanship, the thing every sport is supposed to be about, winnig should not be everything, but to Chelsea it IS...

Darren
April 07, 2005

Cannon Balls - Chelsea are Blackburn magnified 1000x. They are playing the most effective footie curently but we still play the best when we're on our game. I really hope we remind them of that when we go to Stamford Bridge.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Mick,the only revolting tirades on here come from you and GunGun with your posts praising Avbramovichs-Chelsea and trying to stop any criticism of them.

Darren
April 07, 2005

Bernard - they deserve it ON the pitch but off it they are hideous. They have a gangster running the show and a Man Utd fan as chief exec. Very classy. There's something far sexier with the way we are trying to achieve success but we can't blame Lampard, Terry etc, for the naffness of the club as a whole. EEG-loved the way you slipped "arse lickingly" into your previous post. Marvellous stuff.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Micky boy, I don't hate Cheslea, lets get that straight... I just dislike the way they have gone about buying their way too win trophies, the media laud them and Jose gets credit for buying £200m worth of players and inherting another 100m worth and saying that he's done a great job... Neil Warnock could have done a great job with £300m at Sheff Utd and Wenger and Fergie would have won the lot with that money and don't forget the wages...

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

And Niall - I think you'll find I didn't "bang on about it" except in response to the stomach-churning appreciation I had to read this morning. I would rather not comment on them at all because I think it is wrong (and the scale of this is a million times ahead of anything Inter or Madrid have been able to do - its every position - two quality players). Unfortunately I had to read nasty stuff suggesting I should be grown up and appreciate their quality. Which to me is like saying "Ben Johnson was roided up to the eyeballs and - hey - I might not agree with it but I just dont see the point of revisiting it every time he pisses on everyone in a race. The other runners should just stop being envious and appreciate his speed." See, they are getting even better.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Mick, within reason people have the right to post whatever they wany, about whatever they want. And the catastrophic impact that Chelsea under Abramovich will have on football as a sport is highly relevant to a football forum, I'd suggest.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Darren,i have said that Chelsea have been the most consistent side in the League, the most consistent actually since the inception of the Premiership was formed. And that is the secret of their success they have raised the bar and now it is up to us to respond to that without sacrificing our attacking entertaining style,which is dressing up a dour league. The days when a team like United could lose 5 games and still win the title in a canter like back in the 90's are long gone. But having watched many of their league games i have to say that out of all the teams that have won the previous titles, Manure,us and Blackburn ,Chelsea are nearer in entertainment value to Blackburn than us or United. And i suspect that it is no coincidence that Blackburn were financied by a suggar daddy too, albeit one who had stood on the terrace when a boy and not bought the club on a whim when flying past in his helicopter. The only consolation in all of it is that he never bought Spuds!.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Exiled and Chief Anorak, thanks for the date, and thanks to the others who replied.

Mick
April 07, 2005

I never thought this site would degenerate into a pathetic sour-grapes Chelsea hate-site. You are all mesmorised by themand by Mourinho. It has been the only subject for weeks.Can`t we talk about the Gunners anymore? I think you all have stated your hate. Ther is too much hate in the world. You have called for bullets to hit Abramovic and compared their players to Nazi soldiers. I think enough is enough. It is only football, you bunch of sour grapes.Have you all gone nuts?Pull yourselves together and spare this site from your revolting tirades.

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

And of course I think they are just the same Niall. What I was getting at, with the brick I sometimes feel you respond best to is that it is a very silly argument to suggest that you can and should ignore the very basis of something when looking at the individual episodes. The argument is plain stupid in fact. OK maybe something a bit closer to the story. Would you have happily watch and lauded the achievements of the South African cricket side playing tests against rebel tourists in the apartheid days and say "I have no love for the South African regime but I see no point in revisiting the evils of apartheid every time they play a match". And before you suggest I am comparing Abramovich to the South African apartheid regime (although we could debate screwing your own people) the level of the crime is irrelevant. Its the principle. If you dont accept the basis then you dont sweep it aside in a ghastly appreciation of its result.

Yorkshire
April 07, 2005

N5er. I find both the £85M profit and £300M retail figs strange for two reasons: one they seem too low and high respectively and secondly they are from the same source:Edelman. Vision7 have released prices of £225K for one bedroon and £300k for 2 beds. Assuming we are on the same prices and 3 beds are £370K, 4 at £450K and units are heavily biased to one beds, say 300, 200, 150 and 60 4 beds that's about (conservative) £210M retail. Take off £80M costs that's £130M profit. Bit more than the £85M + £30M Edelman said. Strange.

Niall
April 07, 2005

Bernard, I'm not denying or defending Abramovich's influence. I'm stating I don't feel the need to bring it to everyone's attention everytime I mention Chelsea or Chelsea win a game. Its the new reality of things and there isn't much point whinging about it especially to a bunch of Arsenal fans who already agree. And also I think Mourinho must take a lot of credit. Many teams have thrown money at success in the past (Inter Milan for eg) and have failed. Also Ranieiri had the same chance last season and failed.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

E-mail just came round at my firm We have 4 tickets for this Saturday's match: Chelsea v Birmingham, Stamford Bridge, 3.00 pm.£40 each for client or personal use. First come first served. Carling Cup winners, Champions Flect, one of two favourites for the Champs Legaue...

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Stupid says as stupid does... What do you think the Chelsea Forums would be saying now if the roles were reversed, says it all really, the brought the trophies, at least us and United and Liverpool won ours, with players brought with money earned by the clubs... If you see it differently from that, then your not looking at it in the best interests of FOOTBALL, not Arsenal, FOOTBALL...

Bernard
April 07, 2005

But Niall, it is because of Abramovich's money alone that Chelsea will win the league this year. If it wasn't for him, Arsenal and Man Utd would now be neck and neck at the top of the table, with us having a chance of winning consecutive titles for the first time since the 1930s. And Darren, I don't deny they've been the best team this season, but I don't think that means they deserve it. Being given £200 million to spend by a corrupt Russian with no previous affinity to the club, with more to follow no doubt, in my view contradicts any idea that they deserve it.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005

Bernard - Makita tourny 13th/14th Aug 88. Beat spuds 4-0 first day (when they had Paul Stewart and that fat cry baby making their debuts after being bought for about 2.5m each). Sunday we beat Bayern 3-0 (Smith2 Dixon 1). Funnily enough I just bought the tape of the Bayern Game from ebay and was watching it at the weekend - it was strange watching all the back passes (and inceidently the pitch was a mare because they'd just started playing American Gay Rugby there).

Niall
April 07, 2005

What a load of rubbish EEG. A very rich man buying Chelsea and annoying you has nothing to do with the evils of Nazism where just a few millions of people were murdered. What an absurd analogy. Now, if you wish to bang on about it every day on an Arsenal forum (where everyone agrees anyway that they don't like it and it changed the face of English football) go on ahead. I don't feel the need to restate the obvious at every given opportunity.

Chief Anorak
April 07, 2005

Spurs 4-0 (Aug 13 1988) amd Bayern 3-0 (Aug 14 1988) source: Day-To-Day Life At Highbury

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

Darren/Cannon Balls - On both sides of your discussion, my point is it doesn't matter. I dont agree with Cannon Balls assessment of Chelsea and their players. Darren is right. They are good. Lampard was excellent last night. A better central midfield performance than we have seen at Highbury all season. But it is utterly irrelevant. QPR would be that good with the level of spending. And people who talk about Lampard and Terry already having been there also miss the point. They wouldn't still be if it wasn't for Abramovich because Bates had already done a Leeds and overstretched them and they were about to go down big time. There is no point wasting time on how good they might be because they dont deserve to be watched. And funnily enough with Skys Premier League viewing figures taking a dive we may see them react to the monster they welcomed so arse-lickingly in the first place.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Bernard,i was at that Wembley Makita Cup Tournament i remember it being Gazza's first game for Spuds he had just been signed by Venables and a 4-0 thumping from us marked his debut - he also got a lot of stick i recall from the gooners for his obvisious overweight being mocked with shouts of Fat-Boy when ever he touched the !- which was not often because we totally out-played them.I cannot remember the date either though.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

It has nothing to do with Chelsea winning A GAME, it's the fact that they were nowhere, then in comes the Billionaire, out goes the hundreds of millions, in comes the massive wages, in comes the manager of the European Champs, though I firmly believe that Arsene, Fergie or any other top line Manager would be in the same position as Jose now, had they been given the job and the money... They have brought the trophies, Chelsea fans will see it differently, of course, but everyone else can see it clearly, the media I believe are building them up for one of the greatest falls....

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

Sorry Niall but that is loony. Of course it is worth revisiting otherwise you just accept it. It is the basis for them winning the ****ing game in the first place. Niall 1939 - "I have no love for the Nazi regime but I just dont see the point of revisiting the whole master-race belief system every time they invade a country".

Darren
April 07, 2005

Steve M - I was at that tournament. We won 4-0 against spurs and then beat Bayern 3-0......i think! That was when Geroge's first proper side started to really click. Brilliant! Cannon Balls - fair enough points about cap'n birdseye,. a man who makes euthanasia appear essential - and their loathsome fans, make no mistake I have no pleasure in watching the Chavs run away with it, but you can't say they don't deserve it this year. To do so would be rose-tinted to the extreme.

Niall
April 07, 2005

I have no love for Chelsea either, I just fail to see the necessity of continually revisiting the Abramovich influence every time people get narked off about them winning a game.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Darren,i have no envy about Chelsea,i have said that i hate the club,this goes back years to when the Bridge was a cess-pit of racist extremists from the National Front and the abuse of Black-players was the most extreme there from the skin-head nazis in the Shed. I was not exactly over-impressed with old Cap'n Birdseye Bates either, he bought the Bridge for a Pound, that's how much it was worth then!. Still is in my book. Your opinion that i am envious of Chelsea is wrong i loath the club for what it's stood for in the past and stands for now, there is a difference. And i still await to see if all of these marvellous achievements that you predictfor the Chav's will actually occur.I have my doubts about that - and also whether or not they can attract the real world class players to come to the stadium built from Lego Blocks, not the squadies that apart from Robben are what the present lot consists of. Wait until our new stadium is up and running, then we will see who is envious!. We Arsenal supporters have nothing to be envious about regarding other London Clubs -especially the Chav's.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Steve, I had it in my mind that we beat Bayern Munich 3-0, but I couldn't swear to it. Arsenal World have a brilliant service that lists the dates of all Arsenal's competitive games, but they don't give the date for that 4-0 win against Tottenham.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005

Ryan Garry - always impressed me when I saw him play, but, OUCH! http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?article=265033

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Bernard, I remember going to both matches, I think we won them both 4-0... when and who scored, too long ago for my ageing memory...

Bernard
April 07, 2005

I've been googling but not had any luck finding it. Can anyone remember a pre-season tournament at Wembley, think it was probably in 1988, when we beat Tottenham and Bayern Munich in consecutive days. Might have been the Makita Trophy, or something like that. The win against Tottenham was definitely 4-0, and I seem to remember Merson and Marwood getting two of the goals, though I can't remember the other scorers. Does anyone know the date that the Tottenham game occured? I guess it would have been August 1988, but want to know what day in August it was.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005

As for the german thing. As I see it (never having lived there) they don't like us and we don't like them, but there appears to be a mutual(if grudging) level of respect between the two nations. Much like two cousins really.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Darren that's the point, once they sign another 100m worth of players and domiate, and the media see that even the other big two United and Arsenal are stuggling to keep up, then Liverpool and Newcastle ars tugging, then Real and Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, Inter and AC find it difficult as it's all down to ones man money and his ambition to make a club the biggest, the medias view will change and the powers that bemay actually do something good for football and make sure that a club survives on the money THE CLUB makes, not by indivduals with money to burn, making the competition, Pointless... Arsenal and Man Utd battled it out for years now, but they battled it out with United having the advantage in crowds and world wide commercial activities... Arsenal are paying some 300m to build a future, if Roman had come to Highbury we could have been the best with a 20.000 capacity stadium... We build for the future, Chelsea have brought the future, NOW!!!! Football should never have let them do it...

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005

At the risk of incurring Nialls wrath I agree with E*G. I also would like to have seen the Russian choose a different bankrupt organisation to foist his wealth on like QPR perhaps, maybe then the powers that be would have been quicker to see the danger he poses to the game as a whole. OMOH - I came across Al Hibbler by chance when listening to a Rahsaan Roland Kirk album, I bought the vinyl copy about 16 years ago and have only just managed to track down the digital version thanks to a Warner promotion on 101cd.com, thanks for the Little Jimmy Scott tip, I'll give it a Google.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005

Can I add my voice to the throng of chelski haters? Dare I for fear of a lecture? Sod it, I hate 'em. They're chelsea ffs. They didn;t need the russian mafia money to make me hate them. They're a club formed to fill an empty ground and only got into the league in the first place because of their stadium. But for me it's personal. I've been to the bridge many times and their supporters have always been from the scummy end of society. Add to that the Captain Birdseye years (never did I think they'd be able to find a more odious chairman than bates) and the gross overcharging of away fans over the years for a restricted view. I hate 'em, always have and always will regardless of any other factors any 'right on' poster wants to throw in, and more to the point as an Arsenal supporter I reserve the right to hate any team I want for absolutely any reason I see fit. So don't bother.

Darren
April 07, 2005

EEG - I despise what Chelsea are doing, the way they are doing it adn the damage it will have on English football. But on a more simplistic level, they have been the best team in the league this year based on results, they look the best bet of both english clubs to go through to the semis of the CL. That's all I'm saying. However, the longer this Chelsea bandwagon goes on and I'm pretty convinced it will last a while, then the more ingrained Abrahamovich will become in the establishment and , to be honest, the exchequer are probably enjoying the benefits of having another billionaire "investing" in england, however morally dubious the source of their income may be. It's never bothered them before. It still changes very little about their lasck of class, style, history and humility and in Peter Kenyon they have one of the most odious, loathsome slippery titw***s to have ever graced the game of footie. However, my earlier posting to Cannonballs was that I felt, at times, his pathological hatred of all things Chelsea was as much to do with envy as it is about the morality of the situation. First and foremost most footie fans care about trophies and titles. Unfortunately, I fear that once they've spent another £50-£100m in the summer, the grip will be so tight the rest of the league will be breathing out of their arseholes.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

EEG, i could not agree more with your post about Chelsea adulation,i percieve xenophobia at work in all of this Chelsea love-fest in the media and among some of the posters on here too. Anyone who thinks that Lampard is one of the worlds great MF players should be made to watch his performances for England especially that one in Madrid against Spain - pony is too polite a word. He did not look that great in the game against us at Highbury when up against Fabregas and Flamini. Doing a Mickey Mouse league cup and title double does not make him or Chelsea World beaters either. Mourinho played his first team to win the LC in all rounds,we used our young players,spot the difference anyone???.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Have to agree with everything that EEG just said about Chelsea. Noticed on Arsenal.com that the only price bands still available for the semi-final are a few £45 and presumably a lot of £55 tickets. Although they're now on general sale, I'm quite surprised that so many have been sold already. I had visions of our end being as empty as it was in the 2003 Community Shield game.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

I can’t stand this Chelsea love by the media or fans either, I don’t care what anyone says, they have brought their success big time… Any decent coach could spend a couple of hundred million and sway players to come with massive wages on offer, that even United cannot match… Could Jose have taken over Chelsea and done it the same way as Wenger did, I doubt it, just like if Wenger was given 200m in the summer, Chelsea would not get a look in next season… Chelsea have been pushing cheating to the wire this season, have been pulled up a few times and the powers that be bottle it… If the media want to suck up to them, then that’s their prerogative, but it stinks, just to get a new name on a trophy, that does not belong to United or Arsenal… I hate United, but at least they spend their own money…

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

They have messed up football and are a franchise operation in a sport that prides itself on a history. The fuss about Wimbledon moving to Milton Keynes and whether Celtic and Rangers could play in the Premiership was pathetic when you consider that a foreign vehicle moved wholesale into the shirts and stadium of one of England's bigger clubs. Everything is bought with dirty money and the attitude pervades the club. So to come out with gut-wrenching and supposedly "grown up" appreciation of the "innocent" players' efforts on the pitch is like lauding the Nazi soldiers for their organisational skills. And if this seems over-the-top, good. It is meant to be. The distortion of the game over the last two years has been foul. And reading that **** this morning was distasteful in the extreme.

Mickey Sloan
April 07, 2005

I've always thought that we don't shoot enough from outside the area with our midfield players. You can't score without a shot on target and it is no fluke that Lampard scores so many deflections. Two things of note from the two days play...One; The crowd at the Liverpool game puts ours to shame, what an atmosphere...Two; Pay through the nose for Michael Ballack. 10-0

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

Feeling quite sick at the disgustingly cloying appreciation of Chelsea on here today. It is ****ing toe-curling and it is saying something that I have found my recent encounters with the mice of Hackney more pleasant than reading the forum this morning. And all in the name of some kind of pathetic stiff-upper-lipism and "love of the game". Plain nasty. Everything about the current Chelsea is wrong. From its very foundations right through to each and every member of the organisation. It was sickening to hear Terry moaning about Ballack after they had cheated their way past Barcelona with Carvalho holding back the keeper (David Lacy wrote a great article about the pathetic lack of condemnation of their approach by the English press). And the way they blatently ignored the Mourinho ban and then UEFA bent over and immediately cleared them was a farce.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

William, I found you post very surprising because I do not have total adulation for anything German, and have never claimed to have. And to be frank, you have no idea of all the places where I've ever lived, so I'm not sure why you seem to think you do, just like I have no idea where you live, or have lived. Having said that, I've not lived in Germany though have been there quite a few times, but until you read this post, that's the first time you would know I've not lived in Germany at any point in my life. And I've never suggested that Germans are always full of admiration and love for English clubs either. And how do you know the true attitudes of all Germans anyway, just as I don't know the attitudes of all Englishmen, and I am English, whether or not you "eavesdrop" on German society? And where have I ever conveyed the experiences of people like Dave and babu as un-European? I'll tell you if you want to know - never.

Daz
April 07, 2005

I'm not sure I've seen Bernard demonstrate adulation for all things German. Audis? Wagner? Single words with complex meanings and no one-word translation like, for example, zeitgeist? Naturism? I've just heard him say that he supports the national team which is, in my opinion about as E*Ging weird as you can get, but hardly makes him a worshipper of everything German.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Arsenal -v- Blackburn, tickets on general sale... Having been in six out of the last seven FA CUP semi's, is it even more of a case of after the Lord Mayor's Show... Arsenal have been to Villa Park twice and Old Trafford three times and now Cardiff, where we have played three cup finals and three Charity Sheilds in the last six years... The FA do not think about any one but themselves when choosing Venues, perhaps the half empty terraces on the 16/17 will show them that football fans are just that fans, not MUGS...

William
April 07, 2005

There has been a lot of discussion about Germans and Beckenbauer here lately. I think one has to differ.What seems to be annoying some forumites is Bernards total adulation of anything German. What angry posters seem to be saying is that reality in Germany looks different to what pro-German posters think on this forum. I think the angry posters are only pointing out some other sides of German attitudes that Bernard cannot know as he has not lived in Germany as far as I can tell. The posters do not seem to be saying England is better or a perfect place to be. They are just pointing out that Germans are not always full of admiration and love for English clubs as is being suggested here. Another point is the language: obviously Germans would rarely tell an Englishman in the face what they think of his country. So even those of you who visited Germany will not have come up against their true attitudes. It is only when you are able to "eavesdrop" on a society, that is when you know the language well enough to understand the press and what the Volk is saying amongst themselves that you really here the truth. So, these posters are only conveying their experiences and not saying England is better or anything in that sense. But to dismiss their views as un-European does not do their observations justice.

Rich
April 07, 2005

Just been thinking about the player of the year awards - now we all know that 1st and 2nd will be Terry and Lampard but I think TH14 has has a fantastic season (again) and has scored more than double any other player in the Prem (discounting Johnson's 9 pens!) probably another load of assists, but I think he's a victim of his own success. 30 goals in an unbeaten season was amazing, but he's on course for another 30 this season. After all it is player of the year not most improved or anything like that. Imagine if Van Nistelrooy, Drogba, etc had scored 26 already this season, and generally terrorised defences throughout the land! Henry won't get it because he got it last year, I actually don't think they'll even put him in the top 3! Surely though they can look no further than our young Fabregas for young player of the year. I think that central-midfield is the hardest place to break into as a young lad. Young wingers and forwards can look good with their pace, Young GK's can look good with shot-stopping ability but CM demands you to control the tempo and style of the game and Fabregas can do that at 17. Again though I'm not sure he'll win it, it'll probably go to Downing or SWP even though he's 23. Didn't Parker win it last year?

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Yorkshire, don't forget that one diamond membership equates to holding two seats; hence 84 memberships mean 168 season tickets. EEG, I accept what you say but to me, Kraut seems a more offensive term than islander, that's all. Dave, so I presume you have time for the views of Steve/Colditz and North Bank Mural, because they seem to give a very different opinion to you.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

Yeah, good old Chelsea... 1st goal, long ball direct, shot deflected 1-0... Bayern goal, feee kick, shot, not held by golaie (lehmann would have been hammered for this) 1-1... Second goal, long ball direct, headed down by defender, Lampard left foot shot 2-1... Lampard third goal, well taken, though Bayern ahd gone to sleep by now 3-1... 4th goal scramble, Brogs on hand to slam in net form 2yds, about his range... Bayern can easily win the second leg... I pernally think the Champs Legaue is getting worse, which makes our exit frustrating...

N5er
April 07, 2005

Like you say Yorkshire the 300M doesn't really add up as would imply an average cost of 420k per unit and as we know there is now an increase in the amount of one bedroom units included in the project. Trying to tie this amount in with the possibility of selling some of the community facilities also being built on the site and the actual value of the land at Highbury (presume the units will be leasehold) therefore a freehold title will have an ultimate value but still struggling to find 300M. Even so will be happy to net the 85M initially mentioned earlier in the peice plus the extra 30M when Edelman said AFC were considering developing the site itself!

Rob K
April 07, 2005

Totally agree Niall recently continuously & consistently try to pass through brick walls and look surprised when at the fouth pass to thread the ball into the box to ensure scoring a sitter it gets intercepted.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Darren,i have often stated that Wennger needs to change his tactics in Europe,though we have had results like Chelseas last night at times. I still don't see that it's a foregone conclusion that they are in the next round yet. Two goals conceded at home on the away goal rule makes it tougher - especially if the Germans score first,i reckon that they will try and get a Chelsea player sent off, they are cunning at winning free kicks around the penalty area or making tackles look worse than they are. Parlours dismissal comes to mind over there. The Chavs will have to be careful on the yellow cards they got quite a few last night,and that was at home!.I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that Chelsea are better than AC Milan who with Shevchenko back look very strong and do not concede goals or lose games, unlike the Chavs.

N5er
April 07, 2005

Yorkshire thanks for that info. Don't know the answer re Queensland Road but read a few reports from various sources that it was a 'mixed bag' as regards redevelopment for on sale and redevelopment for own use. I understand the Arsenal Corporate office (incl board room facilities) the AFC museum and various other club related retail outlets are to be built in this area in some kind of tower block presumably next / very near to the stadium. Which got me thinking, perhaps the whole area was said to be 'cost neutral' by Arsenal because in effect the profits from any on sales will be offset by the cost of their own facilities. If so more astute business by the club afterall it was this land that was the subject of the CPO.

goonerguru
April 07, 2005

Have been away with the grandkids for a few days and got back last night and caught most of Chav's second half performance and hate to say it on that form they will have more than good chance of winning the CL,at the beginning of the season they were scraping 1-0 wins but now they appear to score when ever they go forward,their work rate is exceptional they not only defend very well with plenty of bodies behind the ball but when the ball arrives in their opponents box they have equally as many players in the penalty area.Also read this,this morning,according to The Sun newspaper, Gunners boss Arsene Wenger is keen to bring 22-year-old Nantes midfielder Jeremy Toulalan to Highbury.Reports suggest that Arsenal are already close to agreeing a £3m deal for the player,I have to say I have never heard of him.

Niall
April 07, 2005

GunGun, I didn't watch all the game last night. Saw the first half then came back in and it was 3-1 but the one striking thing about Chelsea in Europe that we lack (it was touched upon by Andy Gray) is their ability to mix up the play. They can go short, long, counter attack and are dangerous at set pieces. Contrast that with Arsenal always trying to pass through brick walls. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Until Arsenal buy the players that will enable us to mix up the play and we go back to being solid at the back, we will continue to flatter to deceive.

Darren
April 07, 2005

Who the hell is this Tom fella? I can see references to his posts but assume they've been removed. Sounds like a bit of a Catherine Tate invention from what I can gather. CAnnon Balls - I dislike Chelsea but have to admit they look very good. Regardless of what you might say, it seems to stem from the fact that they are making europe look easy. I think it's called being green with envy.They may have no class, no history and a corrupt sugar-daddy but sometimes you just have to take your hat off and say they deserve it for what they've done ON the pitch, however galling it may seem to us. It won't last forever but they'll make sure they spend the debt of a small african nation every close season.We'll just keep doing things our way adn hope that it comes good in the end in europe.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

GunGun, another illogically thought out argument from you. So you hate ManU and don't want them to win anything?. But you don't mind Chelsea who you admire winning?. You then berate me for using the same principles that you use against United, when i apply them to Chelsea!!!. Fred unlike you i was not salivating over Frank and co, but watching the real favourites to win the CL - AC Milan. Football does not begin and end at the Bridge - though it ended long ago down the lane that time forgot.

Rich
April 07, 2005

Well fair play to Chelsea they are getting the results and getting them against some very good teams - I don't agree about them having no star players; Cech has proved to be in the top 3 GK's in the world, Terry is a great centre-back and people do talk about his flaws but I never see it cost him - and he's probably one of the finest captains around, Lampard is probably one of, if not the most in-form central midfielder in the world. That's not to mention Robben, Duff and the underated Gudjohnsen and Gallas. I don't begrudge the players anything they win its the club. All the neutrals (not Arsenal or Man U)are behind Chelsea because the thought was that they would break the dual monopoly of the big 2, in fact it's gone further than that and realistically they had the title sewn up at Christmas and have effectively turned a 2 horse race to a one horse race. Chelsea could have gone from being closer in terms of points to relagation than the champions and just scraping into 4th to possible winners of the CL, league cup winners and Premiership winners with a probable record total in just 2 seasons! 2 seasons ago they were going nowhere fast, on a par with spuds probably. This may sound like sour grapes and a touch of jealousy but I think in years to come, whether Abrahmovic is here or not there will be a kind of Before Abrahmovic and After Abrahmovic way of thinking. Almost as though anything Chelsea do will be discredited and finishing 2nd to them will be the same as winning before Abro. A few more years of this kind of domination and the G14 clubs will have their noses seriously ut out of joint and could act. That said, while Abro is here I'd rather they win than Man U because everything they win can be bought back to the money and everything we win during the abro reign will taste even sweeter......and Chelsea have'nt gone the seaon unbeaten yet but they are on a run of some 22 games unbeaten....

Yorkshire
April 07, 2005

N5er. The conversion costs were not in that article. I have seen a few figures bounced around in other articles from £60M to £90M. Last year a poster on here who is in the construction game had a basic industry formula to work out housing construction costs by area and he estimated, for the size of Highbury, it would be about £75 to £80m. Read one article said about £90M. Here's the £60M link..http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/arsenal/ I find the £300M figure very high as even at 711 flats it seems a tad optimistic. Further it will mean a profit of £210M at least which cuts right across your email reply from Edelman who said £85M profit. That said, whatever the real figure Highbury will be the Goose that layed the Golden egg. Most of the other deals were just lands sales, after enabling by Arsenal ( from another of your emails from Edelman !!), so the value of the property sales is not relevant to Arsenal. Do you know if QR is land sales or are we doing our own construction???

old man of hoy
April 07, 2005

I woke up on a Chelsea morning all tangled up in blue. Though the sun is shining London is a cold place today. Great Wen i hear your call to work - fear not i am coming laden with expertise to see local government through another hard day. I leave the forum with one that was popular when Chelsea last won the league. Concluding his examination, the doctor asked, "You're in pretty good shape for a man your age. How's your sex life?" The old man answered, "I have sex almost every night." The doctor looked surprised. "What? I don't believe it." "It's true," said the old man. "Almost on Monday, almost on Tuesday, almost on Wednesday..." Boom-boom, gonna knock you right down...

On The Spot
April 07, 2005

Top Managers Earnings...... Mourinho(Chelsea)5.2m, Eriksson(England)4m, Ferguson(Man.Utd)3.6m, Magath(Bayern)3m, Wenger(Arsenal)2.3m, Capello(Milan)2m, Mancini(Inter)1.7m, and Lippi(Italy)3/4 m.

Alex
April 07, 2005

Just to make it quite clear, I never said Gerrard is coming to Highbury. Someone else was using my name. So very, very funny. As for Chelsea, their most impressive performances were in the group faze, where Jose showed how he has really mastered European football. The Barcelona game was hard to appreciate because of the means Jose uses to win. He's as bad as Fergy at his worst, which is really disgusting. Fair play tonight, but Bayern are ordinary, it's just a shame we are in Europe as well. American seems to have a coherant sport philosophy to me, and his dislike of Chelsea is founded on reason, not blind hatred. I don't think he would mind Liverpool winning the title, or in Europe for that matter. I agree that the way you win is important, and Chelsea winning in football, is bad for football. What is happeneing in Europe at the moment? PSV 10 points clear, Barcelona 9 points clear, Lyon 10 points clear, Chlesea 13 ponts clear! Is this usual at this stage of the season? Or is this some strange moment in time? Hope so. i aslo hope that we give Chelsea a pounding at home. I feel it's unlikely though. Oh well.

Jimmy
April 07, 2005

Can't believe the ref. gave a penalty to Bayern Munich. Ballack, the cheat, did one of his swan dives and got the penalty in the 90th minute. It may come back to haunt Chelski in the second leg.

N5er
April 07, 2005

Yorkshire I have that article but don't see anything about conversion figures, maybe it was cut from the electronic version? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1347105_1,00.html Thanks for the diamond club info.

Fred
April 07, 2005

I know it's been said and a lot of formites think it's bollocks but teams play harder against us! Being rated so highly over the last few seasons means that teams defend and stifle and counter, euro teams don't do that against Chelsea yet. It's looking like Chelsea will win the champions league this year. NOOOOO!! Thank god Newcastle knock them out of the FA cup, can you imagine if they were still in the FA cup!!!!!. Frank Lampard will lift the Champions cup before Henry, Pires & Pat.But then again so has Gary Neville & Paul Scholes. Jeezz that cannot be right.

GunGun
April 07, 2005

Cannon, I am not interested in Duff. You know who you hate? You hate yourself, man. You are totally incapable of appreciating good football. But this subject has got too out of hand. You get too emotional about Chelsea. I just cannot grasp the exaggerated hate. I hate ManU with reason. But no one else. It is such sour grapes from your end. Your attitude does not befit a grand club like Arsenal. I know there are others here who dislike Chelsea. But they still manage to keep their tirades under control and not make it into a personal vendetta. A bit of style please.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

I was more proud of our olympic basketball team when we had uni players who were playing for the love of the sport and the love of their country. The gold medal meant something. When they started using professional players here and winning by 30 points a game, I stopped watching basketball at the Olympics. That gold medal they won was bought and paid for.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

Brazil 70 and Gun Gun, I'm not denying Chelsea are playing very well. As for them achieving it without any real star players, you don't have to have star players to do well, just ask Everton and Greece. What you lack in skill you can make up with the right team spirit, mix and match of talents, etc. They spent until the got the right mix. Does my rant sound like my grapes don't taste as sweet as they did before the season. ;-) Perhaps, but regarding what I specifically said about them, what of it is not true? They have spent a kings ransom. They can live with mistakes that would crush any other club in the world including Real Madrid and Man Yoo and they are buildin a feeder club to hoarde players and are tapping up players on rival sides and have bought or tried to buy targets of their rival that they don't need. Address that. Its true or it isn't. Its a bought history in the making. They could put together a squad that plays better flowing footie than we do, defends better than the best Italian sides and its still bought and paid for with no risk. I still think we can beat them in a head to head match most times though. That old saying about form and class is still true.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

GunGun,you have a problem pal, not me. I have stated time and time again that i hate Chelsea, i make no bones about it . I 'ate Spuds, i hate Manure, ok ? - is that plain enough for you to grasp??? And hey, GunGun - guess what ? - there are others like me on here too!!! Aah! Bisto come back!! Duff was well - pony tonight, another sitter missed, and if Joe Cole scores another goal from a jammy******* deflection !!!!

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

A reality check do about Chelsea too,Liverpool were two goals up against Juventus at half-time and have the same chance that a similar chance to Chelsea of going through to the Semi to play the winner of the BM - Chavs tie,which is less certain than some on here are predicting.If Chelsea don't win the CL and it looks more likely that they will not than will,then they have done a 'Mickey Mouse Double' the real double - which great teams do - is the FA Cup and League Title, not the whatever its called now Cup and Title. They really need that CL to surpass us, we have done three 'doubles', two under AW. Winning the title is a great achievement for them, but not unique, someone has to win it -and after all that money spent not exactly out of order - but one swallow a summer does not make. 49 games unbeaten,that will take some beating too. I reckon that they will lose at least one possibly two more games in the league before it's over.

GunGun
April 07, 2005

Mee and Clock End Clive- at last a fair posting with some style and not all the primitive hatred served up by the likes of Cannon Balls and co. You see, Cannon has a problem.He hates too much. He hates Chelsea but it is an unnatural hatred. Ever since I dared to say that, while the Chelsea Empire might not be so clean, the players were ok, Cannon Balls has had it in for me. He is very vindictive, does not forget and says I keep insulting him. Well, I don`t. He says I keep on bombarding him with Chelsea mail. No, I don`t. All I want is fair talk and praise where players are doing well. So try and behave on this here forum Cannon or go back to the terrace where you belong. Here is to a cleaner less hate-ridden forum. Jealousy is ok but sitting around enviously waiting for the other players to get injured is cheap. The Chelsea players have put 8 past Barcelona and Bayern and how I wish we could have done that. I also think that ManU as a club have been far worsein their behaviour towards us than Chelsea. Ferguson and his players have been vicious in the encounters. The Blue men have only played good football. Thats all. Calm down Cannon. Calm down. Let off steam somewhere else.

Sabir
April 07, 2005

Who got the match ball when Pires and Pennant both scored hat tricks in the same game against the Saints two years ago?!

Brazil 70
April 07, 2005

I still cannot understand how Chelsea are now so successful.Looking at their players, they are good & solid but I hesitate to call them brilliant (any of them).Fat Frank (who I have always believed is overrated ) is scoring key goals & is talked about as one of the best in the world.They knocked barca out & very nearly knocked Bayern out in the first game tonight, scoring 4 when we struggled to score 1 against them at home.The EPL is sown up & so far they have only lost once.They have already won the carling Cup.When is reality going to reassert itself? American -Your comments about Chelsea sound a bit like whistling to keep your spirits up.I am getting worried about the game at stamford bridge as looking at it objectively, Chelsea are just not losing at the moment.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

The usual media hype going on about Chelsea scoring four against BM. We got five against Inter away and beat B Leverkusen 4-1 at Highbury, they ended up in the final! -losing to Real Madrid only 1-0. American, Mourinho signing a new contract means little it puts him in a stronger position if he chooses to leave for negotiating a new one for more money!. I expect him though to still be at the Bridge next year - unless something untoward occurs which at that place is always a possibility. I watched a recording of some of the Chavs match and noted that they were giving away more free kicks in dangerous areas than they do in the Premiership. That will be a danger for them with Roy Makaay playing,and the crafty Germans will be looking for,or gott verbot even diving for them!! - if the Germans score first it will be a tough call for Chelsea. I have a hunch that before the seasons over someone is going to stick three or four goals past them. It would not surprise me if the story about P.Neville is true i don't believe that the drunken fool is as popular that some claim with his own players. Hitlers, Generals pretended to like him!,but some still tried to kill him when things went wrong. I guess it's the same scenario with Ferguson a fear factor at work with everyone paying lip service to the cretin. Fergusons been slagging off players in public saying that he will drop them and bring in others, all nonsense of course, he was ranting on today about the consequences of not defending the FA Cup and failing to finish second in the Premiership not being good enough for ManUre, blah.blah.blah. The drunken jock laps up the applause when his team is winning, claiming all the credit for his'canny' management, even writing books about it!. But however, when it's all going pear-shaped, hey it's all everyone elses fault!!!.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

Clock-End, I won't deny them their victories. In the end a club has to do it on the pitch. However, I don't have to respect how it was done. I have far more respect for Everton's present standing in the table than Chelsea's. The amount of money thrown around by them is mind boggling. Anytime a club can make gargantuan football and financial mistkakes like Crespo, Veron, Geremi, Mutu, Parker and others and can still buy their replacements immediately, well it takes a bit of the fun out of it, doesn't it? All one has to do is just keep buying till you get the right mix. I could do that. You could do that. It reduces the sport to simply a dollars and cents...or pounds and pence. Granted, money is a big part of the game but a seemingly limitless supply takes a bit of fun out of it. If they had stopped at that, i'd still be upset but just damn their good fortune of getting a sugar daddy. But they haven't stopped their have they? They're also buying feeder clubs and are also tapping up rival players, making bids on transfer targets of their rivals and other nasty things. It justifies my increasing hatred of them. They are not quite at Man Yoo level yet in terms of my personal distaste...but in about 6-12 months I think they will have earned that same level of hatred I have for Man Yoo.

Yorkshire
April 07, 2005

Nico, Bernard N5er. RE Diamond Club membership numbers. The number I thought was 160 not 84. It may have changed???http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?article=227283&title=Arsenal+sign+up+design+firm+20/20RE Highbury conversion. Edelman said in Sunday Times on 7 Nov....Highbury would be converted into more than 500 flats with a total retail value (not profit) of more than £300M..... Conversion costs have been quoted at between £60M and £90M.

Mee
April 07, 2005

Time for another reality check. Chelsea’s prolonged european campaign can’t just be argued away on the grounds of bad refereeing decisions, fluke goals, opposition players missing and so on, they have scored seven times in two matches against two of the most experienced teams in european football, both currently at the top of their respective leagues. The description of them as ‘show ponies’ is totally misleading, they have a blend of skill and agression, similar to our George Graham era. Players like John Terry and Gudjonssen don’t fit easily into the show pony description. They will win the tie against Bayern and then move on to a semi against Juve or Liverpool and they are well capable of beating both. Only AC Milan can now realistically stop them and I desperately hope they do. Our jibes about 1955 and their two league titles will look less convincing if they can point to a CL title. I posted yesterday that titles and cups don’t define great teams and Chelsea are somewhat short of being a great team, the real disappointment at the moment is that neither do we.

clock end clive
April 07, 2005

Seems to me the more people talk hopefully about Chelsea's downfall the more they win! As for overmuch luck - come on, be serious please, this is a forum that is supposed to know about football - they have just walloped two of Europe's biggest clubs and are over the hills and far away in our league. No luck there. Accept it guys - they are a fine team worthy of praise, albeit if it is touched (or soaked)with envy. We set the the benchmark last year. Chelsea have met it this time. We and United must show what we are made of next season. Until then, well done Chelsea.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

So Mourinho signed on for more money. Is that Roman's way of making him stop the sulking? **** Alex, Gerrard won't be coming. I think he'd be a good player for us if Paddy ever left but its not likely. Eissen is getting too much notoriety as well, he'll not come cheap and has probably already priced himself out of the market. Edu is gone. The question is, is Vieira, Silva, Flamini and Cesc enough at center mid or do we need to buy? I like Freddie a lot and Lauren is a hard core gooner who plays for the shirt but we are missing a lot of technical ability and pace on the right hand side of the pitch. That's why I would like to see Quincy and Eboue on the right at times, maybe not together as they are both young but substituted on to get some experience. If we had a half decent attack down the right, we could stretch defenses. As it stands they know we are only dangerous coming down our left side and all they really have to do is watch for Freddie ghosting in from the right channel. I've noticed that there seems to be a fair amount of space at the outside of the box on that side. That needs to be exploited. **** Regarding my email about Neville, I was told it was in the Guardian.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

Doh! Thanks CB. Forgot the draw was done already. **** A scouser owns the pub I see games at, and I snuck off their for a long lunch to watch the game. He concured that he's never seen so many Chelsea fans since he's had the pub since the 1980s. He and I recognized about 5 that were regulars for the last few years. Talk about glory hunters! He teased one of the Chav regulars and said there were a couple in here with Lancashire and Yorkshire accents and he didn't realize Chelsea had a following outside London and the home counties. hahaha...the guy seemed a bit embarassed by all the freshly bought, Chelsea shirts that seemed fresh out of the box as you can still see the crease in some of them. **** My Man Yoo friends at the pub see the Blues as a one off. They said we had an incredible amount of good luck with injuries and calls last season and the Chavs are having the same. They excpect both of us to challenge them and possibly to finish a close 3rd. Terry and Lampard and Makelele haven't been near the physio's table once this season. Terry once I think but it was only for a few days. **** Agree that Milan look very very good.

Genève Gooner
April 07, 2005

I think you'll find that 'The Island' is a common term used to describe England, Britain, UK (take your pick, nobody else in the world understands the difference). There is definitely no insult meant.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

American,the draw for the next rounds been done already .The Chavs 'IF'they get trough play the winner of the Car-Thives - Juve tie. AC Milan will be awaiting in the final for whoever gets there.Mick getting a bit carried away there,typical Chav no class.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

AC Milan with Shevchenko back and scoring! superb defending another clean sheet too, i will say it again they will win the CL not the Chavs. I have only seen the goals in the Chavs game and they scored some good ones apart from the fluke first - but two conceded means that it is not over in the tie. How many games now in all competitions since Chelsea kept a clean sheet?. They are conceding more goals nowadays than we were awhile back!. And oh dear me - was that first Bayern goal not down to a GK error too!!!. The Germans failed to score a goal at Highbury but got three at home against us. 2-0 or 3-1 and BM go through, not imposible either when they have Makaay back for the next leg at home.And the Chavs have lost their last two away games in the CL - 2-O- and 2-1.

Mick
April 07, 2005

Bernard, Cannon Balls, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahayou German a***e-lickers hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaEngland, England, England. Come on Arsenal, come on England

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

Bayern Munich's form was more like our first game, ordinary, than their 2nd game with us. Makaay and Pissarro out for them, in an away game no less, made them look even more ordinary. As long as Chelsea gets one of the Italian sides (I'm assuming Juve will go through) in the semis, they are out. With their run of luck they'll get the Lyon/PSV winner. The only thing I can see that may hurt Chelsea in the long term if they win the CL is that the G14 (and possibly UEFA as well) clubs will start taking a closer look at Roman's long term strategy (feeder clubs, etc.) and if they start raiding the G14 clubs of talent (Adriano, Ronaldinho, etc.) or bidding on players to stop them from strengthening (i.e. Robben and Reyes) they'll want something done. We'll be at full strength by the 20th. They've always had an inferior complex regarding us and we need to keep that going with a decisive win at the Bridge. **** Lets play 'what if?'. We get past Bayern and draw Bayern's team...Chelsea...in this game...again...I wonder how we'd respond this time?

Alex
April 07, 2005

Hear, hear North Bank!

Alex
April 07, 2005

My last post was addressed to American. I don't think that Gerard is coming, unless Wenger wants Barcelona's Gerard on a free, but I doubt it. 4-2 final score. The shame, the shame!!!!!!!!

North Bank Mural
April 07, 2005

P.S. Bit of xenophbia occuring on here at the mo. I lived in NW Germany for 4 years, worked with "the natives" and had a great time. Drop your perceptions and take everyone as you find them. As a nation we are hardly in a position to point the finger or hold ourselves up as a moral example with our sorry island mentality, blood soaked imperial history and what seems to me, year by year, a dumbed down society. Heavy manners!!

clock end clive
April 07, 2005

Er, show ponies???

North Bank Mural
April 07, 2005

This is painful but we have to admit that the cheating, lying Moanhio and Chelscum are rubbing our face in it and could well win the CL. We must at least beat them in the PL to remind them they are not invincible. PTBAG

steve c/o Coldiz
April 07, 2005

For what its worth.Ilive in Germany,Beckenbaueris pro british.Auf der insel is rather negative.I´ve been with some Düsseldorf supporters (very working class)and they know the history of brittish teams better than most whovisit the premiership clubs.Blatter is corrupt,we do´nt need to argue there but Bechenbauer is as far as I can make out a succesfull and clever buisnessman however is a gentleman and kind of honest,I´d guess.Plattini is a fuitcake,strange ideas and not exactly a visionary,however the frogs (sorry french)have a very strong lobby in europe.I´´m not overly crazy about germans but also not about aggresive drunkards that roam over the europe dring the summer ....my kinsfolk...alas-.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

AC Milan 1-0 up,look no further for the CL winners they look very formidable. I have only seen the Chavs typical flukey goal with Drogba also in an off-side position!. This is a one off season for them everyone will have sussed them out for next season but they will need a lot of good-fortune to beat AC Milan who look different class to them in this competition. Though if it stays 1-0 it will be tight in Germany when BM will have a stronger team than tonights one.

Rich
April 07, 2005

My word, just how lucky have Chelsea been this season. Another deflected goal against Bayern already. In a game where it was going to be very tight and Bayern with their top two both out injured Chelsea fluke an early one. At the time I didn't notice us have any out-of-the-ordinary luck last season (apart from no key injuries) With their wealth Chelsea can never use injuries as an excuse, it does follow that the premiership winners have probably had most of the luck in the season. Numerous deflected goals, no injuries to key men, penalties not given oh and a Russian sugar-daddy to spend more than the rest of Europe put together. I've resigned myself to Chelsea winning the premiership, but we've done that (and in more style) I really dont want them winning the Champions League!!

old man of hoy
April 07, 2005

Have to say The Kaiser remains one of the greatest players i have seen, both as a defender and midfielder. Remember this is the guy who played a World Cup semi-final against Italy with his arm strapped - that my friends is a man of substance. I have all confidence that he would grace rather than disgrace football in a supremo role. As for Germans disliking we English i would have thought there is enough recent historical evidence to make that a no discussion item? Parkerknoll - how good to hear a reference to Al Hibbler and Duke - you sound like a music lover. I recommend if you haven't heard it Little Jimmy Scott's album Falling in Love is Wonderful - superb. Google Jimmy to read about his fascinating life.

Mee
April 07, 2005

Chocolate: The friend I alluded to in my earlier posts was in fact part of the medical team at Hamburg FC. You are right Keegan is indeed still a hero there. That is because he took the trouble to learn the language and to intigrate himself thoroughly into the German way of life, to become in fact, like them. He also happened to be European footballer of the year for a couple of seasons, bringing the club the kind of success and attention they craved throughout a relatively unsuccessful era. Keegan did not fit the beguiling aryan template for sporting heroes in Germany as defined in an earlier age by Leni Riefenstahl and the nazi regime, but he did leave an indelible mark through being successful. To suggest though, that he represents a shift in the mindset of the average German and that they are full of admiration for us as a nation would be a mistake.

Sabir
April 07, 2005

American - I would love for that to be true about Neville! Re: Van Persie and Senderos. I've got really high hopes for them too but I don't think either of them have been a 'revelation'. Van Persie started off great and looked brilliant in the five or ten minute cameos. Since then he's not really done it (or over done it). There's been signs recently though that he's getting back to form. A bit like Reyes really.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

Okay, usually I'm not one for silly rumors and the like, and I haven't seen this online and I'm wondering if this is really true or a prank. A friend e mailed me this from another site and said its true:'Soccer's Phil Neville was at the centre of an amazing riddle last night over a four-letter text blasting boss Sir Alex Ferguson. The message, apparently sent from the footballer’s mobile, branded his Man United manager a 's***house' and called him 'f***ing Fergie' -Apparantly some clever journalist got Phil's mobile number and pretended he was Alan Smith moaning about Fergie. The above was his response.

Mee
April 07, 2005

Dave: I have has a lifelong friend, we met as students in the 60s, who is German. I have visited him many times and stayed with his family for extended periods. I’m afraid he conforms very much to the streotype. He can be arrogant, conceited, overbearing, loud, fervently nationalistic and dislikes most other nations. He can also be incredibly generous, caring, loyal, good-natured and utterly charming. A bit like most people really.

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 07, 2005

'Chelscum are utterly dependant on their owner and once he's gone they'll just be ordinary again. It will be a great pleasure for me to beat this company!' Well I cant argue with Bixente Lizerazu's comments on this one! As for Joe Cole suggesting we all get behind them because they're English thats the funniest thing I've heard all year. I hope the Germans stuff them so 'Come on Bayern!' Come on Arsenal.

chocolate gooner
April 07, 2005

Sometimes one despairs. The Germans don’t hate us, if anything there’s more than a hint of admiration in their attitude towards everything British. Kevin Keegan is still a hero in Hamburg for crying out loud. Most Germans speak some English … in some cases damned good English too and are therefore very aware of our own culture. How many English people know the first thing about Germany or the German language? As in any relationship between two big and proud countries with different traditions and cultures… there’s a level of antipathy but it is no different from the antipathy some Scots or some of the Welsh feel towards the English and is if anything a whole lot less than that. So what’s the big deal? The issue about us being an Island isn’t so much an insult but a reflection of the insular nature of a lot of our attitudes.. and who can argue with that. As for seeing themselves as the master race… don’t make me laugh. This a country that has a far more pacifist attitude than we have… who despite having a larger economy spend far less on defence than we do. The Germans are not perfect but we aren’t either. And whatever we are; we aren’t so perfect as to expect to be admired as a right. Grow up. Too many of us still feel an infantile need to define our patriotism not as a pride in our country and it’s rich and varied history but in opposition to other countries and that is truly sad. Cheers. … … … … … … … … I see an antithesis and I see a thesis but I still see no synthesis. To the poor benighted Decaf Kant’s ‘Antinomies’ are proof of his idiotic claim that he (Kant) finished the job of the Sophists! And this guy is a teacher! I’m a fool to bother with this clown. Pathetic. The rest is RUBBISH. Cheers all and goodnight.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

www.arsenal.com/article.a...cle=268384well, more indication that Cole's contract will be sorted out. If he's being connected with a club supported charity on a long term basis, it means they expect him around. I am happy to see signs of the club doing whatever it takes to keep him.

Dave
April 07, 2005

You see, a typical misinterpretation when you don`t know the language comes along like in the case of the word "Islanders".The German term "die von der Insel" cannot be translated as islander. It is meant much more offensively. It means that lot who live on that isle over there. It is definitely not endearing. It is meant to express that the people on the island over yonder are backward half-wits. No, I could joke about this but I am far too serious about it and want you to understand the difference between living in a country for years and just observing from far. I am not saying all i bad in Germany, not at all. What condoning them non-stop is unrealistic and does not do justice to the real situation. They rae very envious and critical of the Insel and support whoever the Brits play against. I donNt care what unqualified peaople will answer. I will only take seriously the people who have lived there.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

A sign of just how strong we are is that, even if we don't sign any new players (I certainly hope we do) we have a formidable 15 or 16 players here already. We'll have every first team player healthy in a couple weeks (when is Bergy back by the way?). Cesc, Flamini, Senderos and van Persie's emergence has been a relevation. We're already aware of Clichy's quality and good reports coming from the youth from the reserve game match reports on here. Lupoli, Eboue, Hoyte, the defender Dj...something or another, and we don't need much tweaking. 2, but no more than 3 key signings at the very most this summer is all we need. I honestly think if we can stay healthy, we could win it next year with no new signings. A bold statement? Yes, but I firmly believe it. I look forward to the summer. The future is very bright. We are developing a great 'spine' to our side. Senderos at the back, Cesc not only has the skills that are so evident, but also and I think most importantly, he has a steely spirit. Doesn't mind the physical game at all and if that article about him is accurate, relishes it. We need somone up front who can complete that spine along with Henry. Will it van Perise, Lupoli, Quincy, Aliadiere? Who knows. But someone will emerge I think. I am very excited not only about next season but looking into the future, about 3 or 4 seasons from now.

Dave
April 07, 2005

Well said Babu. You know what you are talking about. I am sick and tired of Bernard stubbornly sticking up for anything German. You know zero about them. It is pathetic. Listen to guys who have LIVED there, not just visited or heard something on TV. Babu`s observations are spot on and I can tell he has lived there because he has experienced precisely what I have experienced. Let me tell you something, Bernard. When you live abroad for a long time and speak the language and understand how to read between the lines of the sporting press, get the hidden insults from people at work etc etc. you start to really get to know a country. You see I am not sitting in Cockney land like you and pretending I am a thorough-bred European. You know nothing about the Germans and you stick up for them just out of principle. It has become an obsession. But it is not convincing.Not to uys who have really lived there. You should have heard Lothar Matthaus on German TV in his interview on the Highbury pitch ahead of the second leg. Nauseating primitive nationalism and pure scorn for the Gunners.So, unless you have done real field work and research Bernard, I would prefer you tell us more about Hackney marshes than Germany.

AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005

Very interesting post JamesLT, I am aware of both candidates only from watching old films of their playing days. I have no idea about their administrative skills or their views on the future of the game. With regards to the UEFA presidency, I would think money would play a major role, right? If so, then you need 4 english sides for the global viewing audience. A 4th place team like Liverpool would get far more of a global audience than say a Dortmund, Schalke or Bremen. I'd even go as far as to say that Bayern Munich wouldn't draw as many global fans as any of the 4 English sides in this year's tournament. **** Steve Martin, I totally agree about Henry. Its tantamount to a crime he hasn't gotten the World Player of The Year award. I have a Man Yoo friend who used to argue with me about RVN and now all he says is 'who's better in Europe'. A weak argument by someone not wanting to concede the obvious. **** david.d, JamesLT is correct, he committed suicide. A future show will be dedicated to him. There is a fund that was started for his child. He is from the city I went to HS in. **** Alex, I grew up with basketball as my first love. Still like it. But with the amount of adverts they put in games nowadays that has made a 2 hour game into 3 hours with too much commercials and the way the game has changed to less fundamentals and just dunks, I'm not enjoying like I once had. Not sure if you know this but Henry is a big fan of the sport and is a friend of a player on a team called.....SPURS!!!! San Antonio to be exact. It just so happens that that same team is a major rival of the local team here so its desitiny that I hate Spurs.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

So what nationality are you babu? I think I do talk about things I know about, and I know I respect the Germans. And you say Beckenbauer could play a bit. You are joking aren't you? He is the very best defender I have ever seen. Watch it Truegooner, someone will ask you to define antediluvian soon.

East End Gooner
April 07, 2005

Bernard - what nonsense about the names. I know you have deep-seated and somewhat disturbing leanings towards the Germans but why would Kraut be more offensive than Islanders? It depends entirely on the connotations you apply to the respective names. As it is, I find the Germans fine. Problem is I dont disbelieve what a number of people on here with first hand knowledge say about how they perceive us and what they say about us. And if this is true, they are a bit weak because I go there once a year for a conference and no-one has ever suggested anything like that to me. They are all very charming etc and I have been to Munich, Liepzig (which I liked a lot) and Stuttgart (which seemed a bit like Basingstoke). If they really thought those things they should have been less pleasant to me. I would have respected that more.

Mee
April 07, 2005

Truegooner: By reinforcing the stereotype, I was assuming you’d realise I was laughing at myself. I apologise if my post had an antediluvian persuasion to it.

babu
April 07, 2005

bernard...I want to be be a lot more offensive about them, but am trying to respect the forum. But you have your opinion, I have mine. I remember when I was at school in Hessen and we would play football, and sometimes I would be Der Bomber. I liked him, great player, great bloke,so I can't say I dislike all germans, but der kaiser really is a wonk-stain. Please believe me, there is nothing about him that I respect. He could play footy a bit, but so could schmeichel, cantona, hoddle, etc., etc., and I don't respect them as people either. Get real, and talk about something that you know about. And as for me being english, hmmmm ...

Truegooner
April 07, 2005

Mee-you dont seriously believe that women cancel things juist because of "headaches" do you? How deeply antediluvian of you!

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Well I think there's a big difference between Ferguson and Beckenbaeur. And calling British people something to do with the island sounds less offensive to me than calling Germans Krauts, which many English people do, including yourself.

babu
April 07, 2005

That was meant to be from me, not from you to yourself, sorry, I'm tired. franzl, as I like to call him, is in the same mould as old red nose, and if you respect that sort of person then that is your choice. I am trying to be politically correct, and not to swear or be hysterical, as some of my other posts have been, but really you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to bayern or germany. They refer to the british as "the people from the island", which tends to insinuate in-bred, narrow-minded peasants, and they brand the english football in the same way( not far wrong there ), and they see themselves still as the master-race. Call me stupid, I don't care, I've seen it, it must be true. Now with Mr. Wenger you have class, sorry...Class, and that is what you have with the Arsenal, that's why I love them. You do not have that with bayern, or with germany. I'll finish this post with a little song, " deutschland, deutschland unter alles, unter alles in der welt".

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005

Steve - I'm more interested in finding out how many times Beckenbauer has "scored". Anyone have those stats other than his wifes lawyers?

Bernard
April 07, 2005

I didn't just ask myself what I think of Ferguson, so I've no idea who posted that.

steve martin
April 07, 2005

You remember when we used to have debates and the media whipped up the debate with stats... What am I taking about, Henry -v- RVN and who is the best... Last season Henry scored and directly assisted in over 60 Arsenal goals, this season he has so far scored 30 goals and directly assisted in 22 others, so in less than two seasons the man has scored 66 goals and assisted in 46 other a total of 110 goals, now argue that one... Henry is without doubt the greatest footballer of modern times, has anyone in fact been so prolific... Just think, if he played as many games, such as all Carling and Fa Cup matches, how many the total would be... TH14, is the best of the best of the best... nuffink, a chelsea chav could against that...

bernard
April 07, 2005

bernard...what do you think of Sir Alex Ferguson???

Bernard
April 07, 2005

babu, so what if he's had a few affairs. So did Princess Diana and it didn't put many people off her. And in what way is he so corrupt, because being wealthy and influential is not necessarily the same thing. And why are Bayern Munich evil at all, albeit you think less so than Chelsea. To me the term hysterical nonsense seems a fitting description of what you're saying about Beckenbauer and Bayern.

babu
April 07, 2005

And Cannon Balls...I hope bayern win tonight, for the GOOD of football, better to have the lesser of two evils.

babu
April 07, 2005

bernard...morally he had a very public affair, and a few not public ones,and he is Mr. Corrupt, and he is really doing very nicely for himself.He is VERY biased towards bayern, which I guess I would be if in the same position for Arsenal, but I am not, so I suggest taking a person who has not been so biased in his dealings in his country, as I suggest that if he were dealing with world events then he would be biased towards germany. Admittedly I don't know how he could influence anything, but I am sure if there's a will there's a way, and he would be willing to do anything for his own ends.

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Babu,that may be true what you say - but all of this came about because Chelsea are playing BM; and some of their supporters like GunGun are trying to tie in the Kaiser v Platini issue into the match issue by claiming that Chelsea need to win for the good of football.Total nonsense!.The two events have no connection.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

babu, what is it that makes him such a bad person?

babu
April 07, 2005

tom dean...you're really cool. Can I be your friend ??

babu
April 07, 2005

Cannon Balls...Blatter is swiss, for one, and he is a real bastard, unfortunately. Corruption is alive and well, and the swiss are a major part of this. How do you think they got the next euro. championships with austria ??? And now they only have 3 stadiums that are suitable, as the Zuerich Stadium got thrown out by the people, although one of the requirements was for 4 stadiums suitable to play the finals.Unfortunately I agree with the conspiratory theory, the kaiser (written with a small k on purpose) is really a very bad person, in his private life and in his football world. Platini on the other hand I think is a lot better, and definetly preferable to that kraut.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005

I think Toms finding it hard to come to terms with the fact he's not the only Gay in the chelsea village!

Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005

Once years ago i inadvertaintly accepted the offer of a ride back to London on a coach full of Jevovah's Witnesses from the West Country after my car broke down. And from the experience i drew the conclusion that the only way that you ever get a group of people to all agree on something is to brain-wash them into believing it. Old GunGun the main, 'lets all be friends and love Chelsea because they are doing no harm guys', is himself a serial abuser - throwing insults around, particularly at me for some unknown reason on this forum. That is not a problem to me,only the stupidity of his posts, which he insists on keep posting to me about Chelsea - Aah! Bisto - had more brains and he is a Spuds Supporter!. Debate is not just about adopting a conciliatory attitude - it's about argument and difference of opinion,which can become heated at times,but who want's to just have a boring harmonious discussion with everyone holding the same view?. Only a moron like GunGun.

Mee
April 07, 2005

The use of other peoples handles is getting really tiresome - at least you can detect the false ones - just look at the spelling - or is it some kind of new text speak. Don’t expect Deano to comment on Al Hibbler.

Alex
April 07, 2005

Hiya i see that Tom dean is still here why cant he just go away hasnt he got anything else to do

Phil
April 07, 2005

If people like Tom continue to abuse this forum then unfortunately it is going to go downhill fast which is very sad considering recent events. Ignoring him so he gets bored of his own stupidity is probably the best bet but if one is as devoid of mental ability as he clearly is then I question the fact that he could actually get bored. Someone in authority on this forum needs to act because I for one get fed up scrolling through his rubish and all the false postings.

Boomtownchav
April 07, 2005

Yes I left my E-mail. Thought you could give us a shout without all this b*llocks

adam
April 07, 2005

is that you rik rak

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005

I've been listening all afternoon to a track called "Do Nothin 'till You Hear From Me" sung by Al Hibbler, originally a Duke Ellington track I believe, I've been searching for the CD for about 5 years and finally got it from 101cd.com this morning. If you want to listen to a real voice then track this down, a real goosebumper of a voice.

Boomtownchav
richardw1@oce.co.uk
April 07, 2005

I am shocked at the level of total rubbish on this Forum. Hot news your having a laugh, Bin Laden, the Germans, who gives a s*it, although I did like the comment that you can say what you like "because you can". 2nd Place "lets keep it" what rubbish, were a shadow of last season and as far as Europe goes weve become a bit of a joke. The Yids in two weeks thats important, not some bloody has been Kraut.

Daz
April 07, 2005

i agree too it would be great fun and thierry henry could join in because he is soooooo fit.

Mee
April 07, 2005

i agree it would be a fantastic money erner living in arsenal where all the gays live

Daz
April 07, 2005

It's still funny, Tom, but not quite AS funny.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

That last post wasn't by me. Isn't using other people's handles or names worth a warning, Niall? Presumably it's Tom.

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Ithink i Daz, Mee , steve martin Exiled in newcastle, cannon balls and the commontator should start up a gay club seings we are all gay . Do you agree?

Bernard
April 07, 2005

Does anyone know what 'bitty' is? Daz, what was Martin Hayes a genius at, because it certainly wasn't playing football?

Daz
April 07, 2005

Don't come the cowboy with me, Sonny Jim.

Daz
April 07, 2005

Tom's a thirty five year old computer studies student from Guildford. Still listening to the beautiful and brilliant Kirsty McColl - see I'd far prefer to talk about that or Open Water or the genius of Martin Hayes than high-falutin' and possibly homosexual German words but if I get sidetracked then blame the sidetracker. Really nice song playing about her friend who goes to Australia. And he says it's brilliant there/there's something in the air/and sunshine everywhere/he's on the beach/and though he's changed somehow/it's in his postcards now/he's in Australia/but he's out of reach. Sweet and melancholy but in a good way like all the best songs.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

I've been trying to work out if Tom is either illiterate or dyslexic.

Mee
April 06, 2005

Bernard - i stand corrected, wasn’t aware of that.

Spaz
April 06, 2005

Tom's a wind-up. I was so waiting for the comment from "Commentator"". First time, post, Commentator? I suspect not. Don't love Jeremy Beadle either, Bernard, although I have much more time for Fidel Castro.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

You see Daz - that is inventive stuff. And they say education is going downhill these days. Tom couldn't come from that world. He just isn't sharp enough.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

Daz, don't you think it would be nice if we could all just love each other because we're all gooners, even Osama Bin Laden?

Daz
April 06, 2005

EEG: How about "your mum's E*G is so diseased the crabs are making rafts out of the scabs" which I heard the other day on the bus from one of the yout' dem. Don't go, decaf, I understand the sudden nausea but, you know what, E*G the boring po-faced E*Gs. If anybody else posts about "why can't we just love each other because we're all gooners" I think I'll throw up. It's E*Gs. First, I don't love all gooners. Second, I often call the ones I love E*Gs. And third - as decaf quite correctly says - often the debate does start about football and sometimes it segues (whoah!) into something else. If a certain poster is going to start fights about them or wilfully misrepresent you he's gonna get corrected. Should I be mature about it and turn the other cheek? Yeah probably but then if I was mature and grounded I wouldn't be on a forum in the first place. So suck it up, stop bleating like a bunch of girls, and get on with posting about WHATEVER YOU WANT. Here's the good news: nobody is stopping you.

JamesLT
April 06, 2005

DAVID.D: I think the guy you mentioned from "The Contender" killed himself. I haven't seen the show, but I've heard it's good. I did read something about it though, saying one of the contenders put a gun to his head after losing his fight and then arguing about custody of his child with his partner. Very tragic...

Bernard
April 06, 2005

I might be wrong but I seem to remember Platini once recommending to one of our French players, Vieira would be my guess, that he should join Juventus. So Mee, if my memory is correct, I don't agree that any self respecting Arsenal fan should automatically prefer him to get the job rather than Beckenbauer. Myself, I don't really care which one gets it.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Exiled,ok the GG comparasion was a little unfair though tiny acorns grow into tall Oak Trees - etc. But my point was that there is no evidence that Beckenbauer will be any worse than Platini from 'our' point of view if elected, probably no better either - despite the supposed French Connection. The failures of ourselves and United, etc, in Europe are not down to some conspiracy to thwart our ambition - but rather the unpalatable truth that we have not been good enough. Let's see if the Blue Scum can do any better.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

"Shcool"! See I can even do the spelling. Think Mr Deane is a wind up though since even the 7 year-olds my wife taught were a bit more cutting.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Actually - very sorry everyone. Extremely childish I know, but before she retired on the grounds of laziness, Mrs EEG was a teacher in a primary shcool in Hackney and I was trying to put into practice some of the youth communication skills she taught me.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

I know Tom - I think I caught it from your mum. Didn't realise these things could be sexually transmitted you see. And especially doing it that way.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Cannon - if your comments were based on a lack of national bias from Blatter then I'm not going to argue that one, but comparing the levels of corruption at FIFA with the likes of GG is just daft in my view. He has systematically raped football for his own personal gain and has absolutely no interest in the 'sport'. Him beating Johanssen was probably the worst thing to happen to football since the odious Havelange took power. If anyone has any doubts about how bad these people have been for football then Daid Yallop's book 'How They Stole The Game' is as good a place to start as any. It really is one hell of a shocking story.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Exiled, what you suggest about Blatter may well be true - but there is no evidence that he hasused his position to help Germany that i have ever heard suggested. Which is what Mick,GunGun suggest will happen if the Kaiser gets crowned. And let's be honest here if we want to look for corruption in football or sport in general we do not have to look much further than England - and the people like Ferguson and scum or Kenyon at Chelsea and we even had our own one at Highbury with GG getting caught with his hands in the till. I am only using Blatter to argue that there is no evidence that Beckenbauer will indulge in a fevered frenzy of teutonic one-sideness in favour of the Vaterland should he become King of Uefa; i have no argument with Blatter being a greedy self perpetrating money grabber b*****d, that is par for the course at the top in sport everywhere - including unfotunately the UK.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

I suppose it depends on what you intended to do at your "meeting" Mee. He might have thought it the traditional let-down in the circumstances.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Or even "sow". And what has this to do with pigs?

Mee
April 06, 2005

Exiled: Surely any self respecting Arsenal fan would vote for Platini? On a more personal level, I once had an appointment to meet Der Kaiser (a german friend of mine was his doctor at that time) but he cancelled our meeting saying he had a headache! I thought only women cancelled things because of headaches.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Come off it "Commentator". Enough of the pious "reap what you so" nonsense. Clearly you are a commentator of the Alan Green variety?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Cannon - hold on - 'Blatter has done an excellent job'. Let's make no bones about this... Blatter has done an incredibly bad job for football and an incredibly good job for his personal wealth. He has continued the mass corruption that Havelange started (Blatter was his protege, and if memory serves his son-in-law). He has done nothing what so ever for the good of football and is solely responsible for many (all) of the stupid competitions foisted upon us. He uses FIFA as his own personal 'junket' supplier and continuously shaves off vast amounts of tickets for major events for his cronies and such like. I've no real opinions either way about Beckenbauer/Platini to be honest - which ever one gets in will have a natural bias towards there home country (as did Stanley Rous when he was head of FIFA).

Alan Hedges
April 06, 2005

According to Sky Sports, http://skysports.planetfootball.com/Article.asp?id=268337 Arsenal seem to be very interested in the Italian striker Andrea Caracciolo. what do you all think of this as a possible buy??

Commentator
April 06, 2005

Proof that you reap what you sow.The new poster known as Tom Dean seems to be conducting the exact same type of discourse as Chocolate & Daz,etc. except he does not seek to disguise the reasons for his attacks with references to fancy german words or obscure philosophical references.He calls you a "spaz" or a "no mates retard" simply because he suspects you might disagree with him.In reality I fear he is a joke wind up.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Mick,i have no knowledge that Beckenbauer 'robbed' SA of the world cup,i was not aware that SA had ever won it. Though i understand that it was stolen in London once, some people unkindly suggest twice!. Your obsession with the Germans rigging the football competitions for their own ends seems rather far fetched. I have already pointed out that Blatters been in charge of FIFA for years and done an excellent job. Beckenbauer is a reasonable man with a wealth of experience, and i would sooner him than someone like the drunken jock Ferguson running Uefa, then i would be worried. Kenyon phew! - time to watch Cricket, thats always been uncorrupted, oh!- hang on a moment - there was that scandal about match fixing though - where was it now ? - oh yes - South Africa!!!.

david.d
April 06, 2005

american - yes thats the programme(the contender). one of the best exports you have provided to us. in the last episode there was a guy called najib turner who was a bit of a loner but seemed very sure of himself but he lost the fight to sergio i think it was. it brought a lump to my throat as he was clearly distraught that he had lost and he had let down his wife and his little daughter and broke down as his daughter cuddled him. at the end of the credits it said in loving memory of najib so its obvious he has died this year. do you know what happened to him american? one of the best bits so has been when ishe gave a beating to ahmed kaddour who must be one of the most conceited arrogant guys who has ever lived. i think he would have eaten himself if he could! i think they they are still in the first round of fights so there is still a long way to go. if the tragedy you are referring to isnt the death of najib then leave me in suspense! what did you think of the programme anyway?

steve martin
April 06, 2005

Looking at the tables this season, I find it hard to believe the goalscoring of some teams, Only one has reached 70, one 60 and then it's united in the 40's... Take the Championship as well, the highest scorers are Ipswich 76 goals, the only team to score more than Arsenal, yet they have played 10 games more... Just like Chelsea, all that matters is defence, yet is it not ironic that we used to be called boring, but now the 4-5-1 is the norm, no one else seems to be tarred with the tag...

adam
April 06, 2005

arsenal are the best wats all this tom dean stuff about slasggin off arsenal

Exiled in newcastle
April 06, 2005

i am actually a newcastle fan spying on u stupid arsenal fans

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

No Tom you 'iz' not too late for me - just too stupid. Go play with the traffic, there's a good boy.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

So if Beckenbauer gets the job all referees in EUFA competitions will suddenly become corrupt to ensure German clubs reach the semi-finals of the European competitions. Yeah right. Mind you, if it is true it's a shame he hasn't been appointed already, considering who Chelsea are playing tonight.

Maurice
April 06, 2005

Regaining second place is great ! Let's stay there till the end of the season.

Mick L
April 06, 2005

Cannon Balls I would not be too sure that Beckenbauer is as clean as you make him. The moment he is in there WILL be a German conspiracy. You can bet your bottom cannon ball on that! Don`t be naive. The Kaiser will want successs for his country and nothing else. The Vaterland is what counts for a true German. He won`t care twopence about Europe. All Uefas refs will be desperate to oblige. Suddenly the Bundesliga clubs will all be in the semis of Europes competitions...not like this and last season when 5 clubs went out in one round. Beckenbauer proved his "integrity" when he robbed South Africa of the world cup. But you probably would not know that anyway. Platini any day. A much cleaner character than DEr Kaiser.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Would that be 'Chapel' my young illiterate friend?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Tom - with the level of eloquence and intelligence you display I hope you enjoy your career as a DSS monkey.

Mee
April 06, 2005

Deano - just out of interest what are your views on ‘Existentialism in Pinters theatre?’

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

OK, old bill yesterday - DSS today. Not having had to much contact with them today was a shocker. I've a firend who's 'partially sighted'. Basically he can make out blurred shapes. Anyway, he has always worked but he's been through stuff recently that makes my life seem like a picnic and he's signed off sick. He had to drop off his sick note and asked me to go with him, which I did. We get there and there's two burly security guards just inside the door. Explained to them and asked for a pen to sign his form before handing it in. They refused! Someone was kind enough to lend us a pen and we handed in the form and the monkey started filling in the receipt. I noticed that he'd spelt my friends name completely wrong (it's not John Smith but it's just as hard) which I pointed out. 'So what?'. 'Well it's a receipt so surely he needs his name spelt right'. He then goes into a tirade about scroungers wanting everything for nothing and got even more angry when I pointed out that either my friends or my own tax bills for the year would pay his monkey wages for the year. He then refuses to accept the sick note! So I barged past monkey and sat at the first available desk where we were seen by someone else who was (slightly) more polite. The ignorance amazed me, but as I looked at the receipt on the way out one thing struck me. The official form they use is riddled with spelling mistakes - the best one being they spelt staff with one F (in a job centre). Now I know my spelling is appauling, but if they can't even spell staff...

Steve moron Martin
April 06, 2005

Phil the Gooner was a pain in the bum, but this Tom Dean fellow, is the business, please keep him on here, he is just so funny

Mee
April 06, 2005

Dear Deano - I expect you’ve got what us adults call ‘low self-esteem’ I expect your teachers have told you that already. I used to be a schoolteacher and if you ever need any help with your homework, things like spelling, I would be only too pleased to help.

Mee
April 06, 2005

Deano - may I call you that, I bet all you fav mates do! Now you musn’t swear, that’s being a very naughty boy and that nice Mr Mourinho would be upset if he knew that, wouldn’t he.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

Dave, the fact is I couldn't give a damn whether Beckenbauer gets the job or not.

Mee
April 06, 2005

Alex: I imagine it is just that - a rumour. Tom Dean: Good morning to you. I bet you didn’t tell your mum about missing school today - come to think of it, its half term. Make sure you get her permission to use the computer and don’t forget to turn all the lights off if you’re not using them.

Azinoz
April 06, 2005

Cannon, perfect I live very close to Botany bay anyway so I do know plenty of venues (all serving alcohol of course).

phil
April 06, 2005

anyone else noticed postings dissappearing?

Phil
April 06, 2005

Bobby yes but not Wayne...

Cannonballs
April 06, 2005

t**t

alex
April 06, 2005

phil do you know wayne ewing?

Alex
April 06, 2005

Have any of you heard the rumour of Steven Gerrard coming to Arsenal i think he will be a great buy what do you think

Phil
April 06, 2005

There is a player at the moment in Portugal playing at Benfica who has just broken into the Portuguese national team called Manuel Fernandes, he is a strong, fast skillful player who can tackle and pass the ball and scores a decent amount of goals, he covers every blade of the field and would be a fantastic signing, he is only 19 and plays like he has been around for years. For sure he won't be sticking aound in Portugal for much longer.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Azinoz,thank's i will take you up on your offer!. I expect to be in Sydney around about the 16th of December with my wife and will be staying in the Botany Bay area for a month. Nothing finalized yet - but i have told family and friends that we are coming over for Christmas - so i can't get out of it now!. My son and his girl friend are arriving in July they are touring around Asia at the moment and wanted us to come when they are there - but i prefer December when the weather is better - and also the chance to have a Christmas with relatives that i do not see that often.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

GunGun,how about conspiracy theories regarding Germans being bad for football then - or is it just the ones about Chelsea that are nonsense???. Speaking of Germans, Wenger must be furious with Lehmann after his latest 'mad-cap Jens' incident of throwing a bottle of water petulantly at the referee after the BM game at Huighbury. This two match ban will surely see the curtain come down on his time at Arsenal?. It's rather strange that the last top-class GK -Seaman - was signed by Graham back in 1990 and we kept him too long in the end when there were other good ones available.There seems to be a lack of really top class ones around at the moment. Buffon's got a big reputation but he did not look that special last night against the car-thieves - who may come to rue the clanger that their own GK made when they go to Turin to defend their narrow lead. Liverpoool made the usual EPL teams mistakes of throwing everything at Juventus in the first half and payed the price by tiring. The old Liverpool sides were able to hold on to the ball and slow the game down - our EPL teams will never do well in Europe untill they learn to do this. Let's see now if Chelsea can demonstrate the art of it tonight.

Azinoz
eddie.assirati@ce .com.au
April 06, 2005

Cannon, if Sydney is on your itinery I would consider it a pleasure to buy you lunch while your here. My email address is enclosed.

Västerås Gooner
April 06, 2005

...Who isn´t from a big football country but a small like Sweden, Finland or Belgium...

JamesLT
Zeitgeist/Squirrel Monkeys
April 06, 2005

EEG: I'm surprised no one picked up on your earlier point. This is only confidential, but I've also heard the rumour that "the look a Squirrel Monkey gives when you have entered his habitat" will definitely be added to the next edition of the Oxford English Dictionary as an alternative definition for Zeitgeist. Apparently, it isn't in general usage yet, but the dictionary will still include it to try and reflect the changing use of words. DAZ/CHOCOLATE/DAZ LITE©: Any comments?

Västerås Gooner
April 06, 2005

Dave, the reason Lennart Johansson isn´t to happy with either the english FA or Platini is because he feels he was betrayed a couple of years ago when Sepp Blatter became the FIFA president instead of him. It was "understood" that most european countries should wote for Johansson (just as all the southamericans voted for Blatter) but Blatter promised the english FA something (I can´t remember what is what all about now) but I think that is the main reason that Johansson supports the Kaiser. For all I know it could be another person as well, someone unknown who isn´t from a "big" football country like Sweden...

JamesLT
Beckenbauer or Platini
April 06, 2005

DAVE: Personally I'd prefer Der Kaiser to Platini as the next President of UEFA. Both are quite politically shrewd and probably a little slippery at times. Johannsson (an ardent gooner) is said to be endorsing Beckenbauer, and I think with good reason. Whatever you might say to criticize him, for example that the richest clubs like Bayern might get richer, Beckenbauer is also passionate about the traditions of football - including those in England. Beckenbauer would be a realist, letting the big clubs continue to increase their dominance (good for Arsenal), while protecting the core values of football. Platini was a magical player, but like Sepp Blatter he has endless daft ideas. Remember Platini's previous proposals to (a) increase the size of the goals, (b) make teams play with 10 players instead of 11 to create more space on the field, or (c) outlaw tackling to make football a non-contact sport with players only allowed to close down on the oppostion. As UEFA boss he'd be able to introduce these and other wacky ideas on a test basis in lower leagues, and what's the betting that one or two of the President's pet ideas might then eventually be adopted either within Europe or even globally if his mentor Blatter added FIFA's endorsement. Beckenbauer is the best option for me.

Decaf
April 06, 2005

But I agree that it is nonsense, and I am cringeing. You won't see another post from me until the new season. This is a detox, and not a sulk.

Decaf
April 06, 2005

Alex: this "nonsense" did start with football debates. The problem is that a certain party, when shown to hold a completely untenable position, has a tendency to wriggle and google and attempt all kinds of sophistry in an attempt to get off the ropes. In layman's terms, this is called "running away". Are we supposed not to pursue him?

Juliano
April 06, 2005

http://www.footytorrents.cjb.net/. You'll need a bittorrent client, like bittorrent or bittornado to download files. These sites always pop up and are closed down after a couple of months only for a new one to pop up again. A couple of months ago a site was called "Maxxed Football Torrents" and I could download all Arsenal games in Divx the day after they had been played. That was really great. The URL I did paste at the top of my post seems to be in China so maybe it will take time before they can close it.

Alan Hedges
April 06, 2005

Does anyone know where I can watch / download henry's hatrick from the weekend v norwich? I missed the prem league highlights show here in Australia and was wondering if I can view it anywhere??

steve c/o Cpldiz
April 06, 2005

I must agree with Alex.This squabbling over the last three monthes has become tiresome,boring and not needed.A couple of the posters miht loo back in a couple of monthes time ans cringe with embaressment.Essien is total class,but I´m afraid he is elsewhere bound.I believe Wenger has already pre-signed his next two signings who are his BIG name ones.I´d hazzard a guess that one is Totti ad the other a keeper.Beckham or Owen would do wonders for the franchise and AG,however both are not so fleet of foot anymore andif it were on footballin rouns they´d be better off in Toonlan or Boro.

Alex
April 06, 2005

American- I'm fine. You sound in good spirits as usual. Was watching College Basketball on TV the other night. It's a big deal I take it! I think I could probably take to it if I watched it regularly, and got used to the small playing area, and amount of 'baskets'. Are you a fan? Not sure about Quincy on the right. He models himself on Henry, and is effective when cutting in on his right foot. I do agree that we need another option on the right though. How can anyone say that Ljungberg should be sold! He's just had his best season! Loyal, hard working, and scores important goals. Irreplacable.

Alex
April 06, 2005

Mee- Don't you think signing Essien would be a little disheartening for Fabregas and Flamini? An older player would still give them hope for the future. Why is everyone defending Almunia? I assume he had a good first half. Liverpool! What is it they have that we don't? Can it really just be belief? Flumoxed! Can people (you know who you are) stop writing such unrelated b------s. It makes scrolling through the postings such a chore. Your arguments are not witty, clever, or interesting. Please take your scwabbles elsewhere.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

CB, I forgot about his telling the scousers to shush. If he goes, I wonder who will come in? You know Roman will throw money at Wenger. That's for sure. I can't see him wanting Sven. I hope he does get him, no offense but I'm not a big fan of your national team manager. In that alleged meeting with Roman, I have to think Roman is trying hard to placate him. Kissing his you know what. As much as I would hate to see Chelsea win it, I'd take it a little bit better if Ranieri was still there. He was always a gentleman and I couldn't begrudge him getting a title. My guess is possibly one of the Italian managers. O'Neil possibly but he's staying put till Fergie leaves. One other thing to consider, will this affect them for the remaining games? Lets say they have a disappointing game v. BM, the Cole matter gets finalized and its a harsh penalty, he's still pouting and not attending to getting points. They may win it, but it may be close. No matter what happens, we have to go to the Bridge and play like its a cup final. We need to keep our hoodoo over them in the league and sow the doubts that they are ever going to be good enough to beat us consistently and the QF CL last year was a one off.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Decaf, fluke doesn't do Porto's run justice. Name a club that has gone to the final in the CL without ever facing either Juve, Milan, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich in any of the knock out stages? I would have added Man Yoo but they go them when they were imploding, having gone from 1st that January to 3rd and losign to the likes of Wolves. I am convinced Mourinho has signed a deal with the devil.

GunGun
April 06, 2005

American Gooner....Platini is the other candidate but it looks like Uefa are partial to the Kaiser and he will get it unless Platini (who being French would be probably more Arsenal-friendly)does some serious lobbying and greases a few palms good and proper. But the Kaiser can grease more, I am sure.Cannon Balls, watch out, it all might be a Chelsea conspiracy

Mee
April 06, 2005

Looks like most things at Chelsea have a spin on them these days, including we hear, the players blood.

Mee
April 06, 2005

Just watched the highlights of the Lyon game. Essien looks better each time I see him. I hope the rumours and speculation surrounding Beckham, SWP, Owen prove false because Essien is the one player who could make the difference for us. Expect a massive bid from Chelsea or RM.

GaryB
April 06, 2005

I'm trying to understand some of the forum rules - can someone help? When someone says "I'm going to ignore (insert name here)", or someone else says "end of." (as in end of discussion) - then that's *EEG right? Damn this thing is complicated.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Unless I'm mistaken, the Cole-gate matter hasn't been resolved yet, right? Perhaps that may tip Mourinho over the proverbial edge? The FA may take their cue from UEFA and feel they have to make an example of them. Anyone know when the final decision is to be handed down?

Decaf
April 06, 2005

Cannon, start with his big "I am" departure and failure to congratulate his team when Porto fluked and cheated their way to the CL last year. Right there he said "I'm bigger than all this" and he's demonstrated that attitude ever since. I'm sure the Chelsea thing is going to end in tears, but I fear not soon enough.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

I thought about some of the things that he does and if they could be a 'psychological' ploy. but he does come over has being rather erratic, the incident with the Liverpool supporters in the LC Final which he later tried to pretend was directed at the media! - and other incidents suggests that he is not the rational cool person that he tries to portray himself to be. It's common knowledge among the media in London,with who despite earlier popularity he is becoming unpopular now, that he is being 'tapped up' by Continental Clubs. Everything at the Chavs is murky so anything can happen there in that cess-pit of nefariousness.

Decaf
April 06, 2005

"The only good thing about your idiotic post is that the bits you cut and paste were understandable, which is a huge improvement on your normal fare". Lovely! Pure brass! I'll give you that. And then to ask why I quoted the passage! The question is not why I quoted that passage. The question is why you did NOT "quote" it. The police are looking for a certain CG to assist them with inquiries about a couple sentences, which, since we don't want to be too jarring, seem to have fallen off the back of a truck. **** On to footy: what did you make, Choc, of the perfomance of the "'fortuitously stumble across' the odd car" lot from Mersey. Do you think they could "fortuitously stumble across" it from the Chavs?

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Dave, who will probably get the post? Beckenbauer or Platini? Who's the leading candidate?

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Very jealous of you, lucky b-----d!! I love to traveling to different countries. Interesting about Mourinho not attending the away match possibly. I wonder how the players are taking it? I'd think he'd like to show a sign of support to his players by being in the stands. Knowing his being there helps, if even a little bit. Strange. This is a stretch, but could his tirade be part of some big design of his? He was a psychology major and does and says things for a desired effect. **** Exiled, I'll be doing the scripting. ;-)

Dave
April 06, 2005

Daniel Cohn Bedit has seen the light and wants to form an alliance to stop Beckenbauer becoming UEFA chief. Johannsen though has said he will support Beckenbauers application. No surprise as Johannsen strangely was awarded the German Cross of merit out of the blue by the German interior minister. The story is bent and crooked before it has started and reminds me and apparently other forumites about how Beckenbauer pinche dthe World Cup from undewr Mandelas nose. Bernard, come out in defence of your bretheren.....

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

American, from what i can gather Mourinho is also refusing to go to the away leg in Germany too. And if he is disillusioned then it could have a knock on effect on the the Chavs - his psychological motivation playing a large part in their success. The 'Tag- Team' wrestling sounds fun, i may be in New York for a few days before Christmas. Probably October - but i guess that's a fair way from the main event,i will have to make do with a visit to Nevada Smiths for a few beers and watch some 'soccer'instead!. It depends on whether or not i can find the time, i am going to the Black Sea resort of Varna, Bulgaria in August and have trips to Istanbul, and Cairo on the itinerary too. Then in December it's off to OZ for a month over Christmas and the New Year. But i have had an invite to go to New York and keep promising to go, it's a few years since last i was there, so i have to fit that in somehow if i can among my many other various activities - like posting on here!.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

American - if it's going to be 'anything goes' WWE who's going to write the script and set up the stunts? It's not real wrestling like Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks...and Jimmy Saville!!!

N5er
April 06, 2005

Bernard (and Nico) thanks for the info re Diamond club, needless to say I know what I'll ask for next Xmas! ;_)

Decaf
April 06, 2005

American, I thought that Liverpool were nothing short of *G* in the second half. Took the foot completely off Juve's neck (note the wrestling theme) and paid the consequence. Silly.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Decaf, I concur about their first half performance. They had to dredge up le Tallec from St. Ettiene for goodness sakes. Gerrard had to play striker on Saturday. I would love for them to go through only if I knew for sure Chelsea wouldn't. I'd rather have Chelsea face Juve instead of the scousers if they make it to the next round. If Juve scores in the first half in Turin its over. Chasing a game at Juve is not what you want to do (although the Mancs did it in '99...and I was praying otherwise at the time). **** CB, it may be a reason why Deco didn't follow him to Chelsea. He knew the kind of nutter he was and was good enough to write his own ticket to top clubs. Carvallo and some of his other Porto players didn't have a name so they followed the money. As for the wrestling match, its WWE, so its anything goes. There are a couple of loud mouthed, puny-looking, cockney Man Yoo guys at the pub that couldn't beat eggs. They'd make good 'Cannon fodder'. **** Where is that Chelsea fan that comes on here once in a while, Charlie is it? I'm curious as to what the Blues fans generally think about it. I peaked at a forum of their last week and they were doing the 'we're being treated harshly because everyone is jealous of us' thing. Can't say I wouldn't feel the same if it were us, but we took our handbags at OT punishment like men. 4 first team players banned and fined and we responded by winning.

Decaf
April 06, 2005

American, I thought that Liverpool were nothing short of brilliant in the first half, and Garcia splendid. (I haven't watched the second yet.) It just shows what you can do when you have the players and you decide to take the game by the scruff of the neck. That what we are good at. Its utter nonsense that it doesn't work in Europe. Leave the cagey stuff the Italians, I say.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

The Car-Thieves had a chance at 2-0 but that away goal is makes it tough. We went there once long ago and won 1-0 in Turin - somehow though i can't see the scousers keeping a clean-sheet,Juve hit the post in the first half too and i can see them getting a couple of goals at home. Even 2-0 it would have still been tough,but you never know in football but i would not put any money on Liverpool to get through. Shame really because the EPL will not have any teams in the next round!.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Liverpool must be doing it with smoke and mirrors. They looked great in the first half. 2-0 half time lead. Still think they will not go through, especially having given up the away goal. A 1-0 win in Turin is totally within the realm of possibilities. **** I wonder if Cole-gate had not happened if Ash would have been captain on Saturday? He's the longest serving Arsenal player wasn't he?

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

American,put me down for the Tag-Team - only though if i am allowed to use a Base-Ball Bat !.

George Bernard Shaw
April 06, 2005

"What I say today everybody will say tomorrow, though they will not remember who put it into their heads. Indeed they will be right for I never remember who puts things into my head : it is the Zeitgeist." I hope everyone enjoyed scrolling today.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Mourinho is getting too carried away with himself and the amount of incidents that he has been involved in show that he cannot handle pressure.The manic celebrations after each win for example are an indication of that - he is a control freak and obviously resents Kenyons participation in the running of affairs. He could head for the exit at the end of the season and go to a bigger club that he feels is more in keeping with his 'genius' if he feels that Chelsea are not really worthy of him. It all addds more pressure on tomorrow nights match and it will be interesting to see how the Chavs handle it.If they come unstuck Mourinho can blame his absence - if they do ok it will be down to his careful planning and coaching!.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

CB, frankly I didn't think Mourinho will go, but if he does and it seems a bit more likely with each passing day, he is such a cry baby!! He will definitely not work well with the pressure cooker that Real Madrid is. Okay, be upset you didn't get the proper support but if he ups and quits, I'll have more than a good laugh about it all. **** DaveM, first of all thanks for your posts on the reserves as well. I agree with part of your recent post that Ljundberg and Gilberto are better suited for certain type of opponents. I disagree however on the opponent. Against the likes of Bolton, Man Yoo and other clubs who show more skill in kicking a shin than a football, we need Freddie. He's a battler. He has bottle and will not be intimidated as a Pires or a Reyes might be. That's where players like Parlour were very handy in as well. Against the flair sides, especially in Europe and the lesser sides in the league or against any side that wants to play football, flair and skill on the ball are more relevant. I'd take Quincy over Freddie in those types of games. Or Cesc instead of Gilberto. **** I really like playing Cole and Clichy on the left at times. I'm not saying it should be our first choice selection but if we're trying to protect a lead and make substitutions, having them both on the left is something to consider. Each time they've played there as a LB/LW team they have played in sync together and at times switched positions and one will go forward while the other stays. It also adds a lot of pace to the left side and keeps the other teams honest who have to worry about a counter. They know each others game well which I have to conclude comes from training together in the same position. **** Parkerknoll Gooner, he's also pledged a billion dollars to advance black and minority students in getting high tech college degrees. He's a bit of a philanthropist here and unlike most of our rich, I don't think its for the tax benefits or to garner good PR so they don't get tagged with an oligarch label. Not excusing some of the corporate practices of his company however, just acknowledging some of the good. He can buy and sell Roman a few times over. **** Niall and Daz, I'd like to fly you two over here to be the undercard for my Dyer/Bowyer main event. I'm turning promoter. The other under card is a Man Yoo supporter and an Arsenal supporter in a WWE tag team wrestling match. I'm participating in that one. I'm thinking of asking Cannon Balls to partner me. All 4 will be wearing their clubs shirt. I'm hoping Sky will televise live to you guys. I'll need one of you to do the FanZone portion for Arsenal.

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 06, 2005

Just a little piece (from the emirates website) on our new Stadium. Most of it we've all seen but it does include one image (walking up the steps) that I've never seen. http://www.emirates.com/miniSites/Offers/Arsenal/TheEmiratesStadium/TheEmiratesStadium.asp Come on Arsenal.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Aliadiere was quoted recently to be unhappy (since retracted but..) and he can't complain. He's been given chances and had the bad luck of suffering injuries. Not Wenger's fault. He can't blame the club for hindering his progress. I certainly do hope he progresses and pushes van Persie, Lupoli, Quincy and others for a starting position. It would be great if we found our striker from within without having to buy, but as it stands we may need some quality from elsewhere till they develop to the standards that we require. **** david.d, regarding The Contender tv show, is that the same one we have here that we exported to you guys? With Sylvester Stallone of Rocky fame and former champ Sugar Ray Leonard? There is a boxer from Philly that has a tragic thing happen. I won't spoil it by saying too much, but its a bit touching when they get to it. **** Finishing 2nd will mean we get a tougher draw in the group stages, right? **** Not sure Myles Palmer agreeing with me that Pires was the main one at fault for the Norwich goal is a good thing or bad thing. Some things he writes is original, but the self back slapping and political rants and family business stuff gets a bit annoying.

AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005

Alex, Eskimo and Xav T (how are things with you by the way?)thanks for your comments on the game. Quincy is interesting. I have repeatedly said I think he should be used on the right so that he can get minutes since we are lacking someone to challenge Freddie on the right. Also, because I think he'll do the same job for us what Ronaldo does for Man Yoo when he's on his game. I want SWP but in the meantime, we can add someone who can dribble with pace and beat their man on the right. I think if he's put in some games he'll bring his quality of play up to meet the standards of the PL. Its time for him to get minutes in the first team. He'll make mistakes as he's learning but I think he'll be a revelation. If Reyes goes, which eliminates a striker/winger, I'd buy Yakubu and have Freddie, Pires and Quincy play left and right wings for us and Clichy substituted on if we are defending a lead late in the game. **** I certainly think Eboue is our full back. Hoyte is no slouch either. I like Lauren. He bleeds red for the shirt. I think we can win with Lauren in the first team but for my money, we have a better player in Eboue and a better player for the future than Lauren in Hoyte. I'd like him on the bench to play RB or center mid if we need a substitution. I've heard some say he can or should play wide right. What? He's not a wide right player. He may have played there before but that doesn't mean he's good at it. I pitched for 2 years as a kid in baseball but I'm no pitcher. **** As for the copy and pasting. I wish some would copy and paste what I actually said at times. ;-)

Decaf
April 06, 2005

Apols Babiolakis? One of Nico's cousins?

The Kant Copper
From Sections 50-54, Prolegomena (Kant)
April 06, 2005

Choco asked: "in which case may I suggest that you do likewise and stumble across a website which will confirm that Kant is linked to the dialectical method of antithesis: thesis: synthesis?" Decaf is out having a puff (and enjoying it greatly, Niall) and slaying wild beasts, and asked me to look this up. Sorry that it doesn't come from a google site, and for any errors (as I copied it out of a silly old thing call as book)! Kant says: "Thesis: The world has, as to time and space, a beginning (limit). Antithesis: The world is, as to time and space, infinite. I pledge myself as to the correctness of all these proof--and reason therefore perceives that it is divided against itself ... The only possible way in which reason could have revealed unintentionally its secret dialectic ... blah, blah, blah". Totally inconclusive, right?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Whos Apols?

Decaf
April 06, 2005

DaveM: I agree with most of what you say, particular about Ljungberg. I'm not sure about Gilberto at all. I'd like to see Fred used as an impact player, playing for maybe the first half, running around like a maniac, and making a nuisance of himself in the box, and using his experience. I think Fred is useful against any opposition (not just Norwich), but I can't see the point of him plodding up and down the touchline for 90 minutes, creating very little, and I hope van Persie gets a lot more time there next season.

Decaf
April 06, 2005

And a splendid one it was too, Mee, although I must say that almost all of the interesting posts today have had little to do with football. Could it be the "football only" people are a little jealous? Oh, and Choc, I take back "dextrously scuttling". There is nothing dextrous about you at all. You are a sinister little E*G.

Niall
April 06, 2005

Apols, I have accidently lost the postings from April the 4th in case you are wondering where they went when updating the site. I fully accept due whipping in good grace!!

Decaf
April 06, 2005

Choc, you can ignore me if you like. In any case, you'll find I never START any non-football debate (now who is the one most responsible for that?), and why one earth should I respond to attacks either to myself, to logic, to honesty, or to good taste? One just wonders how much of what you contribute here is lifted wholesale from other sites. Fair enough I suppose to use terrorist tactics when you are completely outgunned, which would say was the case even when the pompous LT rolled in and has an unsavoury encounter with Dazs behind. You also seriously underestimate South African undergrads. If I said a "answer ONE question out of four," and then changed the rules (and inserted several other questions) after they had written the exam, and worse, refused to explain when I have given people zero, there would be a bit of a fuss.

Mee
April 06, 2005

The last two postings ascribed to mee - weren’t from me - my last posting was the Roy Bentley one.

DaveM
April 06, 2005

The key to players like Gilberto and Ljungberg is they are good for certain types of games and bad for others. If we only played sides likes Norwich on sunny days then there'd be no problem and we'd win the league by miles. Unfortunately, the league is decided in games against your close rivals and when playing physical, committed teams who close down and foul repeatedly, on days where the weather ain't great. Gilberto and Ljungberg aren't best suited to that, as they have shown time and time again. This would be fine if Wenger would drop them after bad performances or would take into account the opposition when picking the side, but he won't. Therefore we won't win the league and we won't be able to beat awkward sides like BM either whilst those two are in the squad.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Well the wheels are starting to come off already at the Bridge .Murinho is refusing t be a he game tomorrow nigh and says he is not getting the backng of the club. Adios amigo!!!Real Madrid here he comes..

Steve Martin
April 06, 2005

Not sure how many of you are members of Arsenal, well today I got my membership magazine… Just a few facts for you, there are 21.161 goal level members… 23.410 silver members… 44.098 red level members and 14.404 junior gunners… The oldest member is Mr G Phillips (93) the closest member is Thomas Collins 0.1 Km’s from the ground, the furthest Jeff Dobson, Kalliness, Shetland Islands… Furthest overall member Michael Ham, Parnel, Auckland, most popular district for members N1 1866 members… the average season ticket holder is 44 years old and live 32 Kms from the ground and 89% are male, red level members live an average 77,4 kms from the ground…

mee
April 06, 2005

sorry about tom dean

mee
April 06, 2005

do you really think iam going to set roy bently on you. your a moron because you beleved me

DaveM
April 06, 2005

The reserves were excellent last night. I though Djourou and Van Persie had particularly good games. Djourou is going to be a sensation. I think he's a better prospect than Senderos (the Swiss aren't half going to have a good central defence). He's ready for first team action, and could certainly be considered when we're counting our centre-backs for next season. For an 18 year old he's certainly big, he's quick, good in the air, tackles well, is a leader (he was really helping Eboue) and he's as good a footballer as you're likely to find at centre-back. I haven't been so excited since I first saw Cesc play. All in all I thought the defence was probably better than the one we played on Saturday. VP is creating as well as scoring, and I think he could yet make it for us. Aliadiere is a natural goalscorer, and I'd like him to stay. When Reyes leaves that would leave us with Henry, Bergkamp (but even if he stays he won't figure in more than about a quarter of games next season), VP, Aliadiere, and Quincy (who also had a good game wide left). Given how many goals we've scored this season, and the extraordinary number of young attacking players we have (Ryan Smith and Lupoli will both be better next season too) I'm not sure we need to buy a striker. However, I can imagine Wenger loaning Quincy out and bringing a striker in. Speaking of loanees, I thought Bentley did ok. He seems physically stronger, tracked back well and put some dangerous and inventive balls into the box. I wonder what Wenger made of him? Having seen that I'm still of the opinion we should concentrate on a Keeper and either SWP or Joaquin (even Chelsea can't buy them both). Out go Lehmann, Ljungberg, Edu and Reyes (bad attitude to the opportunity he's been given, and a poor decision maker on the pitch - I just hope we get our money back). I'd be happy for Lauren to go to, as one of Eboue, Hoyte and Toure is bound to be better. I'd like us to keep Cole, and to play him left-midfield for a substantial number of games.

Mee
April 06, 2005

Tom - If you dont go away - I’ll get Roy Bentley to tell your mum.

Daz
April 06, 2005

Fair enough, so in order to illustrate the tiny issue of "being part of" which has now been explained to you ten million times, you judged it opportune to google, cut-and-paste and "forget" to source a great big lump of Hegel.Net.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Tom,have you got two brothers called Dick and Harry???

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Rob K - understood. Not sure about you changing the rules but as you say lets hope it is a moot point. There does seem to be some difference between what you say and various suggestions/mission statements about expanding the membership etc. Anyway, thanks.

Myles Palmer
April 06, 2005

LAST WEEK I was saying to friends that if Ashley Cole was picked at left back against Norwich, he would stay at Arsenal.He started at left back, Arsenal beat Norwich 4-1 to go second on goal difference, and Arsene has said he wants Ashley to stay.A manager has to say that because there are eight games left to play.Ashley was booed at Highbury, but as Bob Dylan once said, "There's a little bit of boo in all of us."Thierry Henry scored a hat-trick and now has 181 goals for Arsenal.181 goals in such a short time is a mind-boggling total.FREDDIE scored with a header from ten inches.Last week's Sky stats by Rob Bateman showed that the second most efficient finisher in the Prem was Andy Johnson with a conversion ratio of 30.50 %.Pires was 5th with 28.60%Henry was 8th with 21.60 % and 102 shots.Who was the most clinical finisher in the Prem ?Who was the most clinical with 9 goals from 24 shots?Whose conversion ratio was 37.50% ?FREDDIE LJUNGBERG !!!!!Huckerby scored a great Thierry goal, a rocket shot from the left side after Pires pretended to tacback and playing like he's never been away. Arsene knows how to tune them up after rehab and bring them back at the right time.The manager admitted that the Brazilian has been badly missed for the last six months."The positive thing is when he didn't play, people realised how important he is and he became a more highly-rated player," said Arsene."It's not only because he protects the centre backs, it's also because he's good in the air and we have conceded many goals from crosses this season."It's a shame as sometimes people, who have real team attitude rather that a flashy one, only get that kind of recognition when they don't play. "People forget that Gilberto is a world champion, but he's a quiet guy and he doesn't want special attention.

Rob K
Rob_K_@hotmail.co.uk
April 06, 2005

EEG - I think you've misunderstood our role. When Steve passed away I accepted responsibility for keeping the site going. I have been very kindly helped by Rog & Niall. There are no 'dutys' or 'guardians'. We will apply the existing rules as we see fit but if necessary I will change the rules. I hope this is moot as I would rather leave the forum to its usual random-walk and not intervene at all.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Nah Chocolate - it was you who used "football" as a comparitor. And it was a stupid one. The word "Zeitgeist" is a million times closer to "football culture" or "pop culture" or whatever type of term used to describe a movement than it is to "football" which is a ****ing simple noun. You used a stupid example. I used a better one from the same base. And one that was at least in some way relevant to the discussion. Daz was describing Nikola as being part of the Zeitgeist. To that end your use of "football" is typically dishonest.

Fred
April 06, 2005

Leave Tom D alone he has every right to gloat! Chelsea consider Arsenal their "derby match" they have been in our shadow since the Prem began and flunked in the old first divison. Personally I'm not offended. After the brillant season they are having it will be comedy award worthy entertainment watching them trying to repeat it!

chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005

EEG… no offence but you’re floundering. In what way are the words ‘zeitgeist’ and ‘football culture’ comparable. You might as well say that if someone were to ask you to define the word ‘family’ and you started by say that it means “being part of… …” ‘being part of’ isn’t wrong in every case!! If someone asks you define “Team”, “Nation, etc, etc you could very well use ‘being part of’ to define these words. That doesn’t make it right for every word and it most certainly doesn’t make it right for ‘Zeitgeist’… whether you’re using it as defined by the concise thingy or whether you use it as Hegel used it. That is the point.. the only relevant point. Cheers and goodnight. Really.

Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005

Who are the Chavs playing in the FA semi ???

Mee
April 06, 2005

Tom - here’s my number - 1955

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

But Chocolate - if in my original post I told someone they were part of the "football culture" and when asked what I meant by "football culture" I said I meant "being part of the social conditions attaching to the sport of football" it would take a proper ****** to say "part of" had no place in any definition of "football culture" and therefore my definition was wrong.

Spaz
April 06, 2005

It is indeed, Tom. Where are the moderators 'cos you're straying dangerously off-topic and you'll be in the doghouse with me soon.

Daz
April 06, 2005

The good thing is that you can be a fraction wrong in giving an explanation without making that explanation substantially wrong. So, like I've said, quite happy to accept that "being part of" is not included in the term itself but that the explanation given was sufficient to explain what it means. To pretty much everybody but you. When it comes to plagiarism, however, that's another matter- you can't plagiarise a bit - you either do or you don't. You did. And much to your discredit you insist there's nothing wrong with it.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Xav T - My brother phoned and they do have lots - all at £45. I am in the £55 seats so hopefully that means the ones around me will be sold out. Why do I always let the bloke who is the most paranoid on Earth get the final/semi tickets? I always tell him to limit it at the cheapest but he is always paranoid they will sell out so does the open cheque thingy. So do many others no doubt which is how Arsenal manage to sell out all the more expensive ones. £55 for Blackburn in the semi!

Daz
April 06, 2005

Brilliant parody of a chelsea fan, Tom. I am a spazzed up morron for falling for it.

chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005

My initial pop as you put it was directed to Exiled and was entirely meant for him because he wanted to know why I had a problem with the dictionary definition… I told him. I thought you were the one talking about context? I told Exiled why I thought the explanation offered was a shallow one… what’s your problem? To Daz and Babu I made it clear that even on Concise thingymajig definition, the explanation offered was still wrong and it is WRONG. What’s your point? That it’s only a little bit wrong?… ho hum. Although the meaning of the word is utterly changed… it’s merely technical??? Squirrel monkey logic, I presume. Cheers. Goodnight

Xav T
April 06, 2005

By the way, guys, I went to Highbury this morning to collect my Boro ticket. I could see behind the window at the box office a huge pile of FA cup semi final tickets yet to be sold. I hope that I’m wrong but it may very well be that the few of us going to Cardiff will be surrounded by a lot of empty seats!

david.d
April 06, 2005

tom. give up now mate. your posts are embarrassing to say the least. as bernard pointed out how many championships have you won?

Daz
April 06, 2005

It's like white noise or a car alarm or the sound of a bass in three in the morning. Just give it up, you idiot, it's finished, stop trying to drag sophism back into it. You get your stuff from web-sites and you plagiarise it. End of.

Daz
April 06, 2005

That's a shame - Tom Dean's a funny prank and not a real person. Ure funny M8 -ne views on the zeitgeist, d'ya get me?

chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005

By the same token saying that Sophism isn’t philosophy given the dictionary definition of Philosophy and Sophism respectively is an even more reasonable proposition because that particular set of dictionary definitions brook no argument. Did you come up with particular argument at the time? Give it a rest. It isn’t reasonable to define a word wrongly when someone asks you directly for a definition. How is it reasonable to say that ‘food’ means ‘being part of sustenance or whatever’? or that ‘football’ means ‘being part of round leather ball that one kicks’? ‘being part of’ actively changes the meaning of the word. On the other hand if you use language like a squirrel monkey then.. may be this fairly obvious thing is a bit over your head. Cheers.

Daz
April 06, 2005

And hilariously, chocolate, you didn't offer that definition even when invited to. As I say, apart from too a wilful plagiarising idiot like yourself "being part of the time or spirit of the age" does not change the meaning significantly because everybody understood what I was talking about. Now I'm more than happy to concede that "being part of" referred back to what I was talking about and is not part of the substantial meaning of zeitgeist which is the spirit or attitude of the age - uberclear to anybody with half a brain. You denied anyway that something CAN actually belong to the zeitgeist when it is clear that a book or idea or piece of music or even fashion can and does belong to the spirit of the age. This is all a great big pile of steaming guff, wilful pedantry simply to conceal the fact that you cut-and-pasted your irrelevant material about "the geist" from a web-page, gave us a lecture like the patronising little turd that you are without acknowledging it and got caught, bang to rights, doing it. In my book that's a bit more of a howler.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 06, 2005

Dear Tom, djiu mjdioou njgiuh njifoot nhfyyrun nhnsyuqbn! Dhjfujuirtjj kfllikhm ipgk kjsygh lpgio kjhsp mikdfo okf mok iisipog ildj!!! AHHFYYHGSVUV HFHFDTB! Is that clear enough for you, please excuse the shouting at the end.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

But telling Goonerguru that he was using "Zeitgeist" in a post TO NIKOLA to refer to her being part of the spirit of the time, as my friends the Squirrel Monkeys would have worked out without even having to divert their minds from the task of baring their teeth at four year olds, was entirely reasonable. You went off on one for no good reason and you are still doing it. Your initial pop had absolutely **** all to do with the "part of" and that being the thing you said linked it to fashion. You said it was all about this much deeper meaning (using your nicked quotes) and that to talk about Zeitgeist in the context of using text language was some kind of crime against the "Geist". That was the only real b******s spoken on the subject.

steve martin
April 06, 2005

Bernard, it's that stuff they give the players or used too anyway, Creatine, Chavs, have style (not), Chavs can't spell...

steve martin
April 06, 2005

So am I Tom Dean, so am I... Tell me, Tom, where did you get your Burberry cap and bling from...

Bernard
April 06, 2005

Bet you wouldn't have realised it had I not told you I had. By the way, what is 'createn'; it's a new one on me?

chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005

EEG… for the last time. Zeitgeist even by the concise thingy is defined as “the spirit of the age” or “the essence of an age” or even “attitude of an age”. Now it is not defined as being part of anything. “Being part of” entirely changes the meaning of the word … it makes it a ‘fashion’. You may well choose to consider this a minor change (God help your clients) but that isn’t the point… the one and only point is that the explanation offered to Goonerguru was WRONG and MISLEADING. And given that that explanation came from someone who professes to be very up with Western philosophical thought by virtue of his degree or whatever… I am right to expect a better appreciation of the word. That’s it. Not even a dusty Thesaurus tells us that ‘Zeitgeist’ means being “part of” anything. Context doesn’t come into it …but even if you drag in the issue of context, our Thesaurus doesn’t even say that the word ‘Zeitgeist’ means just ‘contemporary’ alone which makes its use in relation to Nikola’s post baffling, to say the least… and all this is just if we consider the ordinary rather sloppy usage of the word!!... not its deeper meaning. So talking about technical levels and context doesn’t get you very far. “Being part of the Spirit of an age”… and “Spirit of an age” do not mean the same thing. They can’t possibly mean the same thing… not to anyone with a brain… and I bet that if I’d said it your tune will be entirely different. But hey! you’re no lap dog. Now, if you have something really deep and interesting to add I'm willing to listen and learn otherwise.... let it lie. Cheers.

steve martin
April 06, 2005

Tom dean, more please, a very funny Chelsea fan, who keyboard keys are all over the place... Nuff said... Daz, nice to see your learning your place, one step below Tom Dean, JAJ...

adam and alex
April 06, 2005

we are sorry to hear about the news of steves death RIP Steve you are a true arsenal legend lets hope arsenal win the fa cup for you

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

And I am not sure that my mum and dad know I'm on the computer.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

To be fair, he may be a bit green but the lad can read people pretty well.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

What an opportune time to mispell writing.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

I'd rather sound like an old man than have my writinmg giving the impression that I'm illiterate! Look it up if you don't know what it means.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Niall - you need a snout mate. Of course you know I wont be emailing you or any of the other "moderators" with any issues and will continue to post any concerns on the forum. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

After reading Tom's so eloquent contributions, I trust GunGun has a better understanding of my own and Cannon Balls' feelings towards that small club from Fulham.

G W F Hegel
April 06, 2005

This is for AG; from my Lectures on the Philosophy of World History when speaking of America: "It is a land of desire for all those who are weary of the historical Arsenal of old Europe"

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Tom, thank you for your detailed and interesting posts. Now hopefully the sedatives will work better next time the nurse comes round. Care in the community... bad idea.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

The main point is that if you read the original posts by Daz, the posts by JamesLT, McQuilkie and Exiled and of course my own quite brilliant contributions what smacks you just above the eye like a wooden toy in the hands of an eleven month old is that no-one but you actually thinks there is anything major in this. Now if Daz had described "Zeitgeist" as "the look a Squirrel Monkey gives when you have entered his habitat" then you might have been entitled to jump up and holler. But his definition and use of the word was fine and it took you an hour of googling to find something that you thought just might help you out. Let me help you instead. I am trying to save you from yourself Chocolate.

East End Gooner
April 06, 2005

Chocolate - Its more that I know you listen to me and respect my views so I hoped I could persuade you to drop what is a bit of a non point. Truth is that though JamesLT is correct on a technical level, Exiled is also right that Daz's definition was on the whole right and unaffected by the additions used really to explain the context.

Bernard
April 06, 2005

tom, Arsenal are the worst what in the premiership? Team - don't think so somehow as there are eighteen teams currently beneath us. Fans - don't think so ether, as we sell out our ticket allocation for away games more regularly than Chelsea.

Lex E Cographer
April 06, 2005

Chocolate gooner February 18 2005 "If you want to ascertain what the correct usage of a word with a range of meanings is, in a conversation where there is a clear context, the place to look is a thesaurus not a dictionary."…….Roget's Thesaurus - index - 'zeitgeist'.. tendency 179n: direction, course, stream, main current, main stream, zeitgeist, spirit of the times, spirit of the age; conatus, nisus, affinity. Oops……

Daz
April 06, 2005

Do mummy and daddy know you're playing with the computer, tom?

Bernard
April 06, 2005

Tom, we also have eleven more championship titles in our history, and that's even after conceding you'll win it this year.

Sabir
April 06, 2005

We have History!!!!

Bernard
April 06, 2005

N5er, Nico just got in touch. It's 84 diamond memberships that are available, representing 168 seats (as one membership equates to two seats). So that's where I got the 168 (or at least the 1 something 8) from. Now as Daz is being so modest about his growing status as a playwright, I imagine he'll be taking one membership (so that Chocolate can sit in the other seat he'll get for it). That means there's at most only 83 memberships left.

Daz
April 06, 2005

Well I'm not quite in their league yet. Or for that matter Harlow's. Still sit in the Clock End with the swinish multitude but hopefully that'll change soon.

Niall
April 06, 2005

Er, Daz, bud, wink, thumps up, , as you know I am in good form and would rather not discuss it but hey there ain't much else on offer at the minute bar zeitgeist so er, stick out tounge. Actually, combining giving up smoking with a pretty nasty bug but have had to come into work (where naturally I got it) due to HR clamping down on us genuine sick people the gits...Anyway cheering on the scousers tonight?

Bernard
April 06, 2005

Or perhaps stinking rich playwrights, Daz?

Daz
April 06, 2005

OK, whoever's got Niall can they just let him go and take the moderator back to the mother ship and we'll say no more about it. LOL Smiley emoticons, Garfield cat holding placard reading joke etc etc. etc. Actually, Niall - if I could just stray off topic for a moment - giving up smoking is a really good thing. I've gone for five months now. Helped by a partner who shrieked like chocolate gooner's long lost sister every time I lit up. In the end, it just wasn't worth it. Stick to your guns ( in a metaphorical sense of course).

Bernard
April 06, 2005

N5er, I would love to see the list of people they're inviting to take diamond membership. Stinking rich businessmen (or to be politically correct, should I say businesspersons) who are known to support Arsenal, of course. But I'd imagine celebrities who are presumably raking it in (or have raked it in) would also be on the list like the Melvyn Braggs, Robert Winstons, Clive Andersons, Frank Warrens, Alan Davies' of this world.

Niall
April 06, 2005

EEG - as Rob doesn't appear to be around at the minute, we of course thank you for your opinion and your appreciation of the task ahead for us. As Rob has said and I can confirm, we will be attempting to run the website even handedly and with light moderation for the good of all its contributors in the future. As stated yesterday, if you have any queries in the future as to the moderation of the site you are welcome to email your suggestions to us - as it is very unlikely we will enter any debate on moderation on the main forum.

Daz
April 06, 2005

The Sex Pistols are number one again! Sorry, ruined it for you, Exiled. Anway, I wasn't specifically thinking about Nikola but was alluding to those contemporary things (particularly the txt language he/she used) which are often described as being part of the zeitgeist. This was a JOKE based on Nikola's insistence on the contemporary rather then the past. So my explanation included being part of and simply subsituted "prevailing spirit or attitude of the time" for zeitgeist. But yes "being part of" isn't actually contained in the words 'zeit' or 'geist' . So E*Ging what, I wasn't translating it. It would take a wilful simpleton (chocolate) or a stirring pedant (Mr LT) to say from that I didn't understand the term or start dancing about like a demented, plagiarising baboon shrieking WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and spouting a pile of cut-and-pasted garbage from Hegel.Net.

Sabir
April 06, 2005

The Liverpool match tonight will be interesting. I think the scousers are in for a hammering! Quincy needs to be nurtured and brought in slowly. He could replace Pires or Freddy for the last 20 minutes of games that are already in the bag for a start. Bodies/Cannon - thanks for the film suggestions. Not really a slasher fan but I have enjoyed some slasher movies. I thought The Village wasn't very good - a bit overhyped. I saw the Woman in Black at the theatre and thought it was really good. Psychologically scary films are the ones that do it for me. Anyway, I feel we have quite a tough run-in, it would be fantastic if we could hold onto second spot (and win the Cup).

Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005

Just a thought. With three players sent off, and two of them having a stand up fight on the pitch, shouldn't Newcastle United be charged with failing to control their players?

N5er
April 06, 2005

cheers Bernard, even so thats a nice little earner!

Bernard
April 06, 2005

N5er, I think it's either 128 or 168, but it could be 158 (I'm fairly sure it's 1 something 8, but can't recall the middle number). I've asked Nico in case he can remember.

Exiled InNewcastle
FAO Punk Gooner
April 06, 2005

Mate, I know you read this board when you're in a port. You need to contact me urgently - and it's good not bad. Cheers (and sorry to everyone except Punk Gooner).

N5er
April 06, 2005

My googlesearch on AG packages available has found this little gem >>>the exclusive Diamond Club, which is by invitation only and costs £12,500 annually and a further £12,500 for a 35-year membership, offers unrivalled luxury >>> Anyone know anymore like how many memberships are available? Quite a money spinner.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

Got to say I thought the 'being part of' in the original (correct) Daz definition was more a reference to the use in a post to the ambiguously named Nikola rather that part of a definition per se.

Daz
April 05, 2005

I have to admit that taking such ssue with the phrase "being part of the spirit or attitude of the time" as an explanation of zeitgeist is far from hilarious, chocolate. I still wouldn't say it was a misleading explanation of what zeitgeist means but if James LT wants to say that "being part of" isn't actually contained in either of the two words then I'm happy to concede that to him as a piece of ridiculous pedantry since it was abundantly clear to everybody but a retarted squirell monkey what I was saying (which was not a translation anyway). That isn't, however, what you did. You went away, hummed and haaed for ages unable to give an immediate reply, came back with am monumental piece of irrelevance that you'd googled about E*Ging Hegel and "the geist" passing it all off as part of your own knowledge database. This is total bullE*G but utterly typical of your lamentable tatics. Rather than a squirrel monkey you're more like a baboon leaping about, flashing your bright red arse, cackling for no apparent reason and occasionally pulling back your upper lip in a horrible little snarl.

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

EEG… who merits what on this forum isn’t really up to you, no offence. As for my desperation or otherwise… I would have imagined that in your peculiar non-lap dog way you’d let me live with it seeing as it doesn’t affect you at all. I still fail to see your point… if you actually read my reply to Babu you’ll find that I said the exact same thing that James LT talked about and I'd also said consistently that he was wrong even by his own concise thingy definition before James LT made his erudite and intelligent post ... and I’ve also outlined my position to Mcquilkie… so please give it a rest you non-lap dog. Just because you’re bored at work, or wherever you are, isn’t reason enough to lecture me on what is an appropriate response to Daz’s hilarious error. Having said that…I must say that you admitting that Daz was wrong is an amazing shock. Has he read your post?! I have nothing more to say on this. Cheers

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Rob K - that is fair enough and I am sensitive to the difficulty of taking on the task you and Niall have kindly offered to do but I am not sure the rules are open to interpretation or to any committee assessment. They are what they are and it is your duty to maintain them. Being honest did you know Steve's rules before I told you?

Daz
April 05, 2005

Sorry, chcocolate, but that won't wash. This isn't an argument about philosophy but about your constant misrepresntation. You told me my defintion was total nonsense. When challenged on why you didn't reply and then came back with a whole lot of guff you had googled about "the geist" being both spirit and mind and God and blah blah blah. Only recently have you come up with the "being part of" arguments. Since I never offered it as a translation it is irrelevant and was clearly not the main point as anybody but a wilfully stupid person would see. It means the spirit or the attitude of the time and something or someone can be part of that usually literature or philosophy (something which you actually denied) Everything that has come since is part of your customarily nauseating desire to leap about throwing out guff, misrepresenting people, clinging to absurd pieces of pendantry, throwing in some fairly tasteless references to the Spanish Civil War as point-scoring. I might disagree with Exiled but I know by a million miles who I'd rather sit next to at the football. And in the end, nothing will ever change the fact that you got caught out not only googling but cut-and-pasting the results of your frantic searches and passing them off as your own words...oops sorry...lecture. Sad sad sad.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

And Mr Squirrel Monkey - Apologies for lumping you in with the Chocolates of this world but if you cant work out those simple flaps in the "Meet the Monkeys" exhibit (or alternatively tightrope over the low walls) then I am afraid that is where you stand. You and your lot should be down Camden Market making money out of posing with tourists by now.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Chocolate - JamesLT actually pointed out where Daz was "wrong" and it is clear even to my "lawyerly brain" (just a step up from the squirrel monkey) that the simple mistake did not render his use of the word in any way difficult to understand and certainly in no sense at all merited your intervantion and your frankly ludicrous and desperate analysis of Hegel and the ****ing "Geist"! Had you said what JamesLT said you might have had a point. That you said nothing near it means it is not open to you now to call upon it as some kind of verification of your original ramblings. But if you try hard enough I am sure you can convince yourself (if no-one else) that that is what you were thinking all along. Perhaps copying it and pasting it under your title would be a good start.

Bernard
April 05, 2005

N5er, thanks - that seems pretty mixed use to me.

Rob K
April 05, 2005

Only in UEFA's eyes can Lehmann spontaneously and churlishly throwing his water bottle around equate to the same ban as Morinhio making deliberate public statements about the ref & opposite manager being cheats.

Niall
April 05, 2005

I'd also concur that lap dog was pretty apt there EEG.

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

Lap dog, you? Never surely… you always display an unbiased and fair frame of mind. (**he he he**). Sorry, EEG but light hearted or not - he was WRONG that’s the only point. If your lawyerly brain can’t get to grips with why he was wrong … read James LT’s post. So while you may find it acceptable that doesn’t mean that I have to do so. Furthermore I wasn’t aware that anyone had made you the sole arbiter of standards on this forum and since you were one of the forumites who was banging about “dems da rules” as per Cole/ Anelka…a post that were not only light hearted but correct… Do you actually have a point? I think that just about covers it. The issue is closed as far as I’m concerned. Cheers.

N5er
April 05, 2005

Yeah Queensland Road redevelopment site consists of, a new roadway to be built, in approximately the present position of Queensland Road. To its north of the new road is a multi-purpose building comprising of business, retail and commercial space as well as Arsenal's museum. Four 11 to 14 storey tower blocks are proposed immediately south of the new stadium. The total amount of residential accommodation in this portion of the scheme is 175 units for which there are 137 car parking spaces. At ground and podium levels, there will be a range of business and retail units. To its south is a long serpentine-shaped four storey building, comprising of retail and business accommodation plus a community health facility at ground floor level with residential flats above. Car and bicycle parking is provided at the basement level (accessed from the new access road at the northern portion). The total number amount of residential accommodation in this portion of the scheme is 113 units for which there are 58 car parking spaces. >>>> seems a lucrative site to me.

Rob K
April 05, 2005

EEG - We do intend to moderate the forum as Steve had run it in the past and will try to be tolerant of non football discussions within limits (as this is an Arsenal forum), but since we have had to assume the moderator role we'll be relying on our own interpretation of the rules and not agreeing them by committee.

JamesLT
April 05, 2005

Lehmann has received a two-match European ban from UEFA. An extra incentive for Le Boss to bring in a new keeper?

Bernard
April 05, 2005

N5er, off hand I can't remember the figures for Queensland Road, if anyone had calculated them. But I do remember Nico convincing me that the profitability of the Queensland Road site would be increased by the CPO enabling mixed use of the land, which I believe it does.

Squirel Monkey
April 05, 2005

Bad enough that they use us in experiments but being compared to chocolate gooner is the ultimate humiliation.

N5er
April 05, 2005

Hey fellas, you've got a great little site here but from a part timer can I make an observation? Far too much in fighting, FFS were all gooners here aren't we. There now thats off my chest I'll get back to my finances, maybe you guys like it just the way it is!

steve martin
April 05, 2005

So you are the casue of a refree packing the game in and getting death treats... UEFA basically call you a liar and start throwing around threats of Chelsea being kicked out of the Champs league, but when it come down to it, you get a two match touch lion ban... Then a goalie throws some water at the ref and get a two match ban, and it's UEFA who is in charge of european football, God help the game...

N5er
April 05, 2005

Just looked over my previous figures and the situation as I see it is: 2 deals with Wilson Connolly and Newlon Housing providing min. profitability of 52M and 23M respectively less the 20M already booked! 2 more deals were imminent in the accounts but as yet no announcement on Ofex. These I assume were for the total Lough Rd (after the waste station had been installed) and Drayton Park sites. In addition we had the Queensland Rd/CPO appeal site which at the time was under dispute. And finally we have the Highbury redevelopment site which could provide 115/120M (incl the latest 30M) Happy days!

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

You then jumped up and down and shouted "foul" before spending ages desperately trying to find some support when asked what was wrong. All you could do is find some obscure deeper analysis which was so far removed from the original English use as to be irrelevant AND you attempted to pass it off as part of your own knowledge. Piss poor. But fair play to you. Anyone of higher dignity would have given it up long ago.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Chocolate - At the risk of being called (oh horror of horrors) a "lap-dog" (note the use of quotation marks to signify the original statement came from someone else) this is one of those regular Chocolatarian moments when you think you have the killer point and jump up and down while it seems the rest of us cant really see it. Daz used the term "Zeitgeist" in a light-hearted post in an entirely acceptable way which, to anyone who had heard the word, to not understand required some effort. He was asked to explain what the word meant and gave a perfectly acceptable definition in the context in which it was used (give or take the use of the "part of" which would confuse only someone with brain capacity equivalent to a squirrel monkey).

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

At the risk of being called (oh horror of horrors) a "lap-dog" (note the use of quotation marks to signify the original statement came from someone else) this is one of those regular Chocolatarian moments when you think you have the killer point and jump up and down while it seems the rest of us cant really see it. Daz used the term "Zeitgeist" in a light-hearted post in an entirely acceptable way which, to anyone who had heard the word, to not understand required some effort. He was asked to explain what it meant and again, gave a perfectly acceptable definition in the context in which it was used (give or take the use of the "part of" which would confuse only someone with brain capacity equivalent to a squirrel monkey). You then jumped up and down and shouted "foul" before spending ages desperately trying to find some support when asked what was wrong. All you could do is find some obscure deeper analysis which was so far removed from the original English use AND you attempted to pass it off as part of your own knowledge. Piss poor. But fair play to you. Anyone of higher dignity would have given it up long ago.

Brett
April 05, 2005

Jens Lehmann has been banned for 2 UEFA matches for throwing water. Definitely time to get a new goalie, me thinks.

N5er
April 05, 2005

yeah where is the terrier when you need him? Hes not been on AOL much lately either? That Edelman quote rings a bell now. Off the top of your head can you remember what the Queensland Rd profit was likely to be? I had always been fairly conservative because I thought there was a good chance we'd come unstuck and lose that leg. From memory it was thought to be one of the most lucrative parts of the whole deal, am i right?

david.d
April 05, 2005

non topic arsenal question. i apologise in advance but has anyone on here been watching THE CONTENDER on ITV2?. its a boxing reality programme with 16 middleweight contenders all fighting for a million dollar prize and a shot at a world title fight. brilliant programme. anyone seen it?

Bernard
April 05, 2005

N5er, Edelman explicitly said that at the AGM last October. He said at the time it would increase profits by £30 million, though that calculation was presumably based on 557 flats being built, not 711. I don't think any of us has re-calculated what difference all this may mean. Where's Yorkshire?

N5er
April 05, 2005

Re ISCA yeah thats why I fired off my cheeky email to them? ;_)

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

I was interested in this bit from isca's reply: "I cannot say whether the ISCA site will be updated, although it is likely to remain for some time as a record for the benefit of its principal users, who are students of sports geography." Says a lot really.

N5er
April 05, 2005

No doubt the changes have been motivated by likely increase in profitability but maybe they have also taken into consideration expressions of interest in the project!?! Been a while since I was here on a semi regular basis but now that all 3 redevelopment sites have been basically given the go ahead has anyone done any latest calcs as to what the overall profitability will be? And did I read recently that Edelman says the club is considering redeveloping Highbury itself so as to maximise profits?

mcquilkie
April 05, 2005

On, alright then. Unless I'm plagiarising inaccurately, Lauren's contribution to Cameroon's appearance at France 98 was six minutes on the field and one red card. Well, it seemed interesting when I read it.

Bernard
April 05, 2005

N5er, I also noted that ISCA haven't updated their website since 10 December 2004, so they haven't bothered reporting the CPO appeal decision of 18 January 2005, nor that the Queensland Road landowners are not re-appealing. I've noticed before that they ignore what they consider bad news.

Bernard
April 05, 2005

N5er thanks for that link. Notice they're applying to build 711 flats at Highbury instead of the 557 previously approved, meaning there'll be more 1 bedroom units and fewer 2, 3 and 4 bedroom units. Clearly the average price obtained for each property will thus fall, but I wonder if the overall income (or profit) will increase as a result of there being an increase of 154 units? And if so, by how much?

Daz
April 05, 2005

Well let's hope so.

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

Yaaaawn. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

I always thing this Henry/Reyes thing is blown out of proportion, but if there is truth in it then surely Thierry Henry with his much professed love of Arsenal should do what's in the clubs best interest and encourage this wonderful young talent to be the best he can, AT HIGHBURY.

Daz
April 05, 2005

It's like watching roadkill. For the record, I didn't say anything of the sort, chocolate and you got your own information on favela chic from a Guardian music review which at least at the time you credited. I don't have a problem with you googling - I just think it's funny when you so blatantly do it about football - all that stuff about world football and Il Trap was obvious googling the minute somebody disagreed with you. Not to find instant informationor resolve a doubt like which clubs a player has been at or where he was born but to suggest that this information was part of your enormous library of knowledge about world football. In this particular case, you started flailing around madly and then you googled for back up and cut and pasted a whole bunch of irrevlant material to a fairly simple discussion. All you'd have had to say was "being part of" is not contained in the words "zeit" or "geist" actually and I'd have thought you were a tiresome little pedant but I'd have said yes, true, but the essential thing is spirit or attitude of the time which something can obviously be a part of and which I repeated about fifty times. One of the reasons I'll make no apologies for not letting this drop with you is that it is symptomatic of your approach to everything including football. So this isn't a ddebate about "zeitgeist" or philosophy but about the way you operate. You screech, you harrangue, you wriggle, you misrepresent what people say, you ask irrelevant mocking questions, then you spray out a huge cloud of noxious guff to obscure the original issue. All irritating but not as blatant as shameless plagiarising. Do you want to quibble with the defintiion of that because I undertand it as taking somebody elses words and passing them off as your own. You got found out and now you're doing the usual spray the target routine.

Mee
April 05, 2005

If the TH14 v JAR relationship has descended to a level which is having an effect on the teams overall performance would it not be prudent for Wenger to open the RM door even wider? The problem will most likely be resolved this summer anyway, but if Reyes should stay, will we be risking Henry’s future at the club? Given his status at the club, surely everything must be done to keep TH happy. It‘s a pity it isn’t working out because I have a feeling that Reyes’ true potential will be realised somewhere else.

N5er
April 05, 2005

Bernard nothing new on the Queensland Rd sites on the Islington Council website but there is an update on the resubmitted Highbury redevelopment at http://www.islington.gov.uk/Environment/Planning/MajorSchemes/ArsenalStadium/HighburyScheme2005/ Things seem to be moving fast now and its good to see that we will have continuing property related income streams into the early 2010s

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

Mcquilkie… even going by the definition as used by the English … he was still WRONG! That’s the hilarious point. The deeper meaning of the word is just one I’d have expected him to know… given his much-vaunted education. Cheers

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

The reason that Daz would like to give the idea of “googling” or using the net to find information to you and me a pejorative meaning is simple enough… he doesn’t want anyone to investigate anything he might say. Middle class Brazilians will never enter a Favela according to Daz… except that lots middle class Brazilians apparently go to some Favelas at night!… to party!! The only act of Plaigrism I recall on this forum was done by you… when you deliberately and consciously sought to pass off someone else’s piss poor wit as your own. Any way you’re only up to your old tricks… you’ve been whacked on another issue… so with all the intellectual honesty for which you’re famed, you raise a smoke screen. You didn’t know what ‘Zeitgeist’ meant. Period. The end.

Daz
April 05, 2005

Odd though that after "here's a free lecture" you omit those critical words after "which I googled from Hegel.Net" Because back in the day when I was a humble teacher I wrote my own lectures. Not sure what my poor old girlfriend has to do with any of this - she's always urging me to stop playing with the invisible people.

Cannon Balls
April 05, 2005

Bodies, i am with you on that rating for the Village it was well made and acted, but a little too 'arty-stagey' for my more sophisticated tastes!. A good list of movies therethat you list, one that i can highly recommend because it is top-draw is - Frailty -about a serial-killer, not for the squeamish - but also an intelligent well written and made movie. If you have not seen it have a look you will not be disappointed. Emilys movie about the passionate Gooners and neanderthal Spuds supporters meeting up around Finsbury Park station to discuss the match could eclipse the Texas Chain Saw Massacre for hideousness!, especially if the Spuds get roasted. Which taking account of their away form looks likely.

Daz
April 05, 2005

But I'm happy not to get ina willy-waving contest with you - the roads to Cornwall would - I'm sure - be packed again to see the total eclipse of the sun when you unleashed the trusty pork sword of truth.

mcquilkie
April 05, 2005

I know I'll regret posting on this, but I'm not sure why Chocolate keeps going on about the meaning of 'geist', as known by the German populace. From my limited understanding I thought the argument was about the English use of 'zeitgeist'. Now, a football question. Does anyone know what was unusual about Lauren's contribution to Cameroon's France 98 World Cup finals campaign?

Daz
April 05, 2005

Somebody from your corner should really do the honourable thing and throw in the towel. You're a shameless googler and plagiariser. All the guff and red herrings in the world won't change that.

Bernard
April 05, 2005

N5er, thanks. Yes I would have expected the club to submit a new planning application, so it may well be that the timescale will be extended beyond March 2009 to 2010. I assume ISCA will disband, as there's now no real need for their continuation (according to their own aims), I would have thought. When the bill comes in that website owners have to pay (who's paying it for this site), I'd imagine that would be the end of their red card site, though I could be mistaken.

Xav T
April 05, 2005

American, yes I thoroughly enjoyed last night’s match. Seen 8 first teamers in action (including Bentley) for free! Great! I agree with Alex. Cregg and Skulasson were the main reason why we did not win 10-0 last night. They were slowing down the game, when you had Quincy, Ali and RvP running at full speed in front of them. Birchall was a bit more convincing when he came on. Not so sure about Larsson though, he took his goal well enough but to be fair, Robin served it on a platter for him. I’m with Eskimo here, there is so much quality in front of him, I can’t see him gaining a regular spot in our first team anytime soon. The night before I flew to Asia, I saw the Arsenal-Chelsea Reserve game, and for me the star of the show that night was definitely Aliadiere. Scoring his hat trick with aplomb, pace and a lot of technical brilliance. Last night was no different. His first was a true poacher goal (being at the right place at the right time), his second showing off his technical skills. What surprised me was his work rate and the understanding he had with his team mates (mostly in the second half – he had a couple of stray passes in the first). I really hope AW gives him a chance. Quincy was the other star of the night (he created two brilliant goals with his pace), however his passing let him down at times. RvP, full of tricks and should have scored a couple more goals. When he came on, Arturo tried to get on the act and should have scored when he ran to the ball, past the keeper to an open goal 5 yards away, but inexplicably failed to connect properly. This is strange. Is he feeling the pressure of going down in the picking order behind Quincy and Ali? Is the first half of the FA cup game against Sheffield still on his mind? I don’t know. It would be good if he could find his earlier form again. As far as the back line is concerned, not sure how we can judge Almunia on this game. Apart from a couple of well kept saves, he had nothing much to do (Norwich was very poor) . The defence of Sol and Djourou in front of him was impeccable. Good to see Sol back in, and to hear him marshalling Clichy and Djourou (that’s one of the good things about reserve games, you can actually hear the players talking/shouting at each other). Obviously he was imperial in defence. His team mates were giving him the ball quite a lot, so he did have some misplaced passes (as you would expect) but overall he did quite well. Djourou was impressive too (I guess it’s easier to do so alongside someone like Sol who you know is here to cover any of your potential mistake) a lot more than the couple of previous occasions I saw him play. Clichy was excellent (yet again). Brilliant in defense (Bentley never got one over him. It must have been so frustrating for the poor David, who was so clearly so much better than the rest of his team mates!), and in attack when he combined several times with Quincy, Cregg, Ali and RvP. Eboue was not too bad either. Kept his right side impeccably, and also joined in the attack (he created the first goal very impressively). He definitely offers a lot more than Lauren going forward, so I would not mind seeing him promoted. Unfortunately, this was the last home game of the season, but I am really looking forward to seeing again all these guys in the first team soon.

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the quote in context.… I seem to have struck a particularly raw nerveso here’s a free lecture…'Geist' is a German word which has all the meanings of the English words: spirit, mind, soul and the French word, esprit. German language makes no distinction between spirit and mind: for both, Germans use the same word, 'Geist'. While 'Geist' is usually translated either as spirit or mind the English reader is perhaps well-advised to think of 'Geist' as both together, e.g. Spirit/Mind. Now here is what Daz said…” I’m clearly comparing an authoritative source with Daz’s rubbish… please note the introduction which talks of a free lecture and also note that I left in a phrase.. “the English reader” which is clearly intended to show the didactic nature of the post… a fact that Daz incidentally picked up. If I was trying to hide the fact that it was a quote I wouldn’t have left that in…. Compare that to Daz lifting, verbatim, an address by Jonathan Aitken and just adding chocolate before the word sword…. And when he was praised for it… he accepted the praise. So once again the rules are different for Daz and different for anyone else…. Yep, I’m writing an University essay not posting a reply on a football forum? Pathetic. Dishonesty??? You’re the champion mate. 1) There’s nothing wrong with using the net as a source of information as long as the information is correct. Correctly used and as long as you know what you’re talking about those are the only issues. 2) Any one who claims to have done even an Introductory Philosophy course will know about the concept of the ‘Geist’ and the ‘Zeitgeist’ and their link to Hegel. It is absolutely not deep or profound knowledge that you can only discover on an obscure website. The Oxford Companion to Philosophy, which is a fairly ordinary reference book explains the concept and guess what? It’s entry on Hegel is only about 7 pages long!! I’m sure that even a “Hegel for beginners” pamphlet will explain it… so the question is: why doesn’t someone who claims to be educated up to eyeballs and who wanted to start a debate about Pre-Socratic philosophy not know about such a basic idea in European philosophy? 3) I refuse to get into a willy waving contest about who has what qualifications or whether my wife works in an inner city comprehensive, as a social worker, a nurse or whether she works in the socially rewarding, entirely useful, morally pure and life enhancing world of television. Such things are irrelevant and tell you nothing. Cheers all. ... ... ... ... ... ... Västerås Gooner, there is no big deal, just a load of perjorative nonsense by a monumental prat. cheers.

N5er
April 05, 2005

Bernard re the CPO appeal. I sent an email off to ISCA recently and got the following reply: >>As widely reported in the press the businesses lost their case in the HighCourt. We have been waiting to see whether they would appeal. It appears not as they are now out of time.AFC therefore control all the land they wanted. The only new developments are new planning applications to increase the density of the Highbury Stadium site and extend the timescale to 2010, and a redesign of the Northern Bridge Building to increase it size to house AFC administrativeoffices. Details from Islington council website, planning pages or www.highburycommunity.org.So far there are no public details of the developer's intentions concerning the Queensland Road area, which is only in outline and unlikely to be built as currently consented.I cannot say whether the ISCA site will be updated, although it is likely to remain for some time as a record for the benefit of its principal users, who are students of sports geography. isca_2000@hotmail.com Original messageTo: Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 6:55 AM Subject: ISCA > So whats the latest or is it dead in the water? Are you going to update your website?

Västerås Gooner
April 05, 2005

Daz, lol!

bubblechris
phanoschristoforou@hotmail.com
April 05, 2005

Alex - I thought Almunia had a good game too, he did what he had to do and there were none of the nerves and shakiness he showed when playing for the first team.Andy in Singapore - I think they've renamed it the white bear I'll check next time i go past and let you know. If you haven't got any contacts in Broxbourne or surrounding areas i could take some pics and email them to you, let me know.

Daz
April 05, 2005

Brilliant! I'll get one of my mates to give up his ticket and chocolate and I can go and sit together. Emily can film our passionate chats during the game - I expect we'll be riffing around topics like the social mix in Brazilian favelas, the meaning of zeitgeist and ways of concealing blatant plagiarism - and I promise to send it back to the forum where it can be archived in a special lead-lined off-topic secure chatrrom.

Daz
April 05, 2005

Well maybe de rules are different in Vasteras, Vasteras but it is usually considered to be plagiarism. You would either credit your source or put it in inverted commas or preferably both. But chocolate passed it off as his original thinking on the subject, his own words in order - something I have been accused of myself - to make himself look smarter than he actually is.

Emily
egglentine16@hotmail.com
April 05, 2005

Hello all Arsenal Supporters! My name is Emily, I working on behalf of a Camaroonian film maker who will be coming to England next week to make a film comparing football supporters in England and his country, Camaroon for the British Film Council. I am looking for some of the most passionate and dedicated Arsenal supporters to feature in the film who would be required to take part in a couple of interviews and maybe have a very small camera crew follow them for a few hours (must be in the London area sorry!) The match between Arsenal and Tottenham on the 25th april will also be included in the film and ideally we would follow some of the more devoted Arsenal fans to the match and throughout the match.If anybody would be interested in becoming involved in this very exciting film project please please get in touch with me as soon as possible.Remember only the most passionate fans need apply.Thank you for your time, my email address is egglentine16@hotmail.com. Thanks again!

Bernard
April 05, 2005

But Daz, what do you think of the new strut, it's clearly visisble on the west stand. Yorkshire and others interested, I phoned my contact at Islington Council yesterday to ask whether the landowners at Queensland Road had appealed against the decision made in the last CPO appeal, and he said he was seeing the council's lawyer later and would get back to me. He called this morning and it's great news. They haven't appealed, and the lawyer told my contact that it's so long since the last decision was made (18 January, so almost three months), which is so far in excess of the time limit for making a further appeal, any judge would now automatically throw a fresh appeal out. So that's it, the legal challenges are all now completely over. There are a few preliminaries that the council have to do before they serve notice on the landowners for the purchase of the properties, so they won't be bought immediately. But according to Arsenal's timetable for the Queensland Road regeneration, they need the properties in their hands buy January 2006, as that's when the building work there is due to start (and is due to finish in March 2009).

Västerås Gooner
April 05, 2005

What exactly is the big deal if someone cut and paste an answer?

Daz
April 05, 2005

Oh and chocolate, it's like basic undergraduate stuff (dem's de rules) that if you directly lift something (sorry fortuitously stumble across it) you either put it in quotation marks or name your source rather than pass if off as your own stuff. Decaf simply showed that you were a googler (as you are about football), a plagiarist and a total charlatan so well done to him.

Daz
April 05, 2005

See what I mean? It's hard to ignore him (or even IGNORE) him. I don't actually recall anybody pleading with you not to IGNORE me. chocolate on the basis that it was "rude". But go ahead and do it again. And if it makes you feel better, those fatal words "being part of" clearly mean that I had no idea that zeitgeist means the spirit of the time even though I repeated that a hundred times and your objections weren't based on this tiny pedantic issue (I wasn't translating the term) but on stuff you googled and then cut and pasted from an obscure web-site. You're an utter imbecile.

Daz
April 05, 2005

With Niall and I? James BLT you are the Edu of the forum. I'm really enjoying these descriptions of "hate-filled" messages by the way. I don't hate chocolate I just think he's an idiot who cuts and pastes the results of his googling from Hegel.Net. You know how Gooners have a bit of a reputation for going down like a pair of tart's knickers when the going gets tough. I can see why with the sissy behaviour of some on here. If Niall calls me a I don't think it's because he hates me, it's because things sometimes get heated. OK, I had to get physical with Harlow once and it wasn't pretty but he - as everybody knows - is a special case.

chocolate gooner
April 05, 2005

Before I finally sign off from muppet swatting I would like to clarify a few things. I’d like to start by saying that I fully appreciate the irritation that some members of the forum feel with some of the weirder topics we sometimes discuss on this forum especially when they go on for too long, and let me also put my hand up and accept that I’m guilty of debating a point to death… but nevertheless it is truly irritating when an individual who, let me remind you, has set himself up as a superior and rather better educated individual than the rest of us keeps making basic errors that an uneducated and inveterate know-nothing googler like myself keeps showing up. I am grateful to James LT for pointing out the basic issue at the heart of the latest hooha. Basically Daz is and was wrong on what Zeitgeist means… whether you judge him by the higher standard, which given the Philosophy 101 that he says is burning a hole in his brain (watch him use this piece of hyperbole as evidence of 'lying') is what one would expect him to want to be judged by … or even if one chooses to judge him by the concise dictionary thingy.. although, funnily enough, such a dictionary definition proved insufficient as a way of defining ‘Sophism’. Spot the dishonesty. That’s it. The rest is a load of obfuscating twaddle. The only issue is what he said in his initial post - and what he said was wrong no matter how you look at it, not that that is particularly surprising. … … … … Now to Decaf, who has never knowingly answered a question. Here are a few more questions for you not to answer: what do the definitions that you cut and paste prove, exactly? That what I’m saying is correct? Or that I fortuitously stumbled across a definition which reinforced my point… in which case may I suggest that you do likewise and stumble across a website which will confirm that Kant is linked to the dialectical method of antithesis: thesis: synthesis? Why don’t you blindly blunder into a web page that will show you that Kant finished the job of the Sophists? Hey! While you’re at it, may be you can show us a web page which proves the relevance of mentioning Schopenhaur in a discussion about ‘Geist’ or ‘Zeitgeist’. It should be a doddle for you since you lecture South African youngsters. I don’t expect to get an answer to any of those questions but I’m sure that you’ll find another irrelevant bit of nonsense to litter the forum with. The only good thing about your idiotic post is that the bits you cut and paste were understandable, which is a huge improvement on your normal fare…. … … … … … … … … … … Finally since these exchanges do nothing for the forum, or indeed for me, because they aren’t really debates or even proper arguments but just another way for Daz to exhibit his peculiar prattishness… I intend to ignore both Decaf and Daz. Now, I’ve done this before and only ended up with other members of the forum complaining about my rudeness but except someone can come up with a better solution… I’ll just have to scroll past the posts by these two forumites. This isn’t a hissy fit or some such thing but a practical matter of saving my time and reducing the grief I get from other forumites complaining about off-topic issues… and also I could get back to discussing Arsenal, which is why I log on to this forum any way. In addition Steve M won’t be able to complain about me putting poor Daz down… Daz can very well do that job on his own. Cheers all.

Bernard
April 05, 2005

Daz, have a look at the webcam on Arsenal.com quick. It looks very much like there's another strut on the new stadium. It'll look really great when it's finished.

Bodies In The Box
April 05, 2005

Cannon Balls - coincidentally I watched The Village last night. I'd give it a 2.5 out of 5. Sabir - what sort of horrors are you looking for? Chilling ghost stories or slasher films? In the latter category check Black Christmas, Halloween, Nightmare On Elm Street and the best of them all, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. In the former category try The Woman In Black (if you can get it) and The Devil's Backbone. More recently I enjoyed the film Saw, which I thought was very original.

JamesLT
April 05, 2005

ALEX: Great point on the price we should ask for AC3 and the cost of the Academy... JULIANO: Agree totally on the red and white hooped socks. Pure class. Pure Arsenal. Their return could be just what we need to push on and make a breakthrough in the Champions League next season... NIALL/DAZ: Am I the only one who is savouring the messages backwards and forwards between Niall and Daz? Fill in the asterisks and it could be straight from 'Withnail and I', or maybe make that 'With Niall and I'... "Balls. We want the finest forum available to humanity. We want it here and we want it now."

DHD
April 05, 2005

Looking at my tickets for the Birdge that came through the other week, they're 'only' £40. I'm sure that last year they were quite a bit more expensive - £49?? Can anyone confirm that. Anyone know why?

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 05, 2005

American - he'd be to late, the Russians already bought it! Despite his little hiccup his wealth is still mind boggling and you have to admire what he's done in Africa.

Alex
April 05, 2005

If Cole is sold, we will need at least 24M. That is the ammount that has been spent on the Youth Academy in the last 8 years, and he is all we have to show for it. What is the point in the YA? Will it get better? Who's to blame?

Alex
April 05, 2005

Eskimo- There were few other kicks that went no where near Arsenal shirts as well, which as he was under no pressure, and had nothing else to do, is a little dissapointing from an experienced 'Keeper. Where there any accurate kicks? I agree with you about Laarsen situation. I think that maybe he's a 'dark hoarse', and is worth hanging on to. Maybe he will be a 'late developer' and make the first team yet, you never know. He would make a damn useful player, as I think he has played in most positions this season, and done well in all of them. Surely the fact that he stands out more now is a sign of development? Also, much better choice of hair style, I'm sure you'll agree with that! Fair enough about Quincy, but I really think he's got something. I don't think he's that far off at all. Have you seen much more of Djourou? I haven't been able to see him much. By all accounts Wenger is a big fan. Looked shaky in Carling Cup.

old man of hoy
April 05, 2005

Good to hear that Sol has deigned to play a bit of football again - trust it wasn't too much for him - mind you it is going to be cold this weekend so he may not be ready for an away game at Boro. I did enjoy the recent Gooner back-page sketch of him as The Only Gay in the Village. Just a word of praise for our next striker Michael Owen - the dignified way in which he dealt with Carlos Alberto's outrageous verbal assault made the much lauded Brazilian seem very small in comparison. Am enjoying the Manc wife-beating fans carping about the hike in their season ticket prices - Lord knows how they would cope with the Arsenal or Chelsea pricing structure. I expect the government might offer a subsidy. And Phil did i read right that Daniel Cohn-Bendit is now a parliamentarian? I remember him as Danny the Red from Paris 1968 - a revolutionary socialist intent on hauling down capitalism and all of its institutions. Probably a good mate of Bill Gates now. In a cynical mood i head towards the great centre of London to help my local authority obtain yet more kudos from its citizens. This one for the oldies and Brazil 70. Sadie was divorcing her husband Moshe. After two months of waiting, her case was finally being heard in Court. The judge asked Sadie, "So how old are you?" "I’m 40 years old, your Honour." The judge replied, "Please answer my question honestly. How old are you?" "I’m 40 years old, your Honour," answered Sadie again. "Well," said the judge, "you’re not being truthful. It’s written down here that you were born in August 1940 and that means you’re over 60." "But your Honour," replied Sadie, "I’m not counting the last 20 years with my husband." "Why not?" asked the judge. "You call that living?" replied Sadie.

Eskimo
April 05, 2005

Alex - Are you talking about the one kick straight off the pitch from Almunia (when Larsson was free and calling for the ball), because apart from that, I don't remember any poor kicking (not that he had that much to do!). Larsson has been consistently good for the reserves for a long time, he is just easy to forget when you have players like Aliadiere and Quincy playing alongside him. I must say though, I have absolutely no idea what the manager thinks of him, who he's behind and ahead of or if he'll ever make it a THOF. Been on the bench for the Champions League a few times though (if I'm not mistaken), but with our squad size, that's not always an indication of who will make it and who won't. Quincy is not world class (yet), don't get people's hopes up!

Andy In Singapore
April 05, 2005

Sorry for the non football post but the talk of the Anne of Cleaves pub brought memories flooding back as I grew up in Broxbourne. The Anne Of Cleaves was originally the White Bear pub and it was opposite a youth club called the Mustard Pot where I had my first ciggie, drink and snog (not at the same time). To add some football relevence Pat Jennings, Willie Young, Dave O'Leary and a few other Spurs and Arsenal players lived in Broxbourne at the time in the days before footballers could afford Hampstead. FPTBAG.

Alex
April 05, 2005

Saw the second half of the reserves game tonight. Norwich looked much like there first team counterparts. Almunia is not showing any signs of improvement, his kicking was worse than Taylor's, and that is more or less all he had to do. Campbell and Djourou also had little to do, but Djourou did seem classy, and Campbell came through unscathed. Clichy was great as usual, and Eboue was not at all far behind. Agree with previous posting that Wenger intends to break him in slowly next season, with Hoyte as No. 2. Maybe that's why he only wanted to give Lauren 1 more year. Disagree with previous posting, Skulasson was out of his depth, as was Cregg, but at least he's a little younger. Laarsen has improved the most in the reserves this season. He looked like nothing special in pre-season, but now is holding his own with the likes of V.Persie, Quincy, and Aliadiere etc. That is probably why he had his first call up for the Swedish U21's this season. Forget Reyes, Quincy is world class, and could turn out as good as Henry. Didn't seem to get out of first gear, but tore the Norwich defence open on a whim. Also hope Aliadiere and Lupoli stick around, as they are both top draw, and V.Persie is very near being a first team regular. Bentley looked fatigued, which is not a surprise as it was his first game back. Lets see what he does next year. I have never seen a player so fluent with both feet, that's for sure. Maybe 2 signings in the summer really will be enough!

Wengerknows
April 05, 2005

PG - And he's promised his kids no more than 10m each in his will. Miser !!! I bet they'd rather have Abramovich for a dad. Have to agree that having an off-topic forum will reduce the quality of this forum. God invented scrolling for when the forum get's tedious. As a famous man once said I may not like what you say (or come to think of it, how you say it) but I'll defend your right to do so. The scope of debate is part of what makes Steve's forum different and special. Propers to Niall, Rob and Roger for taking on the thankless task of policing. It's why we respected Steve so much. PTBAG.

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

Pakerknoll Gooner, we may have to pass the hat for Bill. Before the tech bubble his estimated net worth was about 100 billion dollars give or take a few cents. Now its closer to 50 billion. Buy an excutive box? Ha! He could buy the league.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 05, 2005

American - I read an interesting fact about your compatriot Bill Gates concerning his personal wealth. Some wag wanted to know if Gates hid all his money under his mattress how long would it take him to hit the floor if he fell out of bed. It was calculated in GBP and they used £10 notes under a single mattress and they figured it would take him 30 seconds to hit ground zero, if they'd used 1 dollar bills my rough calculation is it would take approx. 7 minutes. In addition at current UK rates he earns £3.4m a day in interest alone! Someone should offer him an executive box at AG and get him hooked, he makes the Russian look like a pauper.

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

It will be very interesting to see how Mourinho reacts when the club form suffers. He likes to pout. Right now, Fergie hasn't unleashed his full repertoire of mind games and needling that he likes to do. A little so far this year (they'll have to win up north for example) but even Fergie can see the writing on the wall for this season. Everything, decisions, luck, no injuries, is going Chelsea's way but he'll pounce when he sniffs out an opportunity. Wenger is more subtle with his. He's learned a thing or two from Fergie. Right now, he gives good quotes for the back pages and the press is glad there is something to talk about other than Arsenal and Man Yoo, but we'll see next season (or even sometime in the remainder of games). If he gets Gerrard and Adriano and other players, spends tens of millions of rubles again and doesn't win, it will all go pear shaped. Chelsea is a gilded cage. Once they win the title they have to repeat. We never had their kind of money or even Man Yoo's so we were always seen as playing way above our financial situation. Given Chelsea's financial strength which dwarfs even Man Yoo the press will be less kind in any weakness they exhibit. Its going to be fun.

Mee
April 05, 2005

Brazil 70: I wasn’t aware that England were ever considered a major international football power post 1966, despite the 1970 teams best efforts. The Dutch team of 1974 - losers in the world cup final of that year, were the finest team in the tournament, as were the great Hungarian team, losers to Germany in the world cup final of that year in 1954. Time and reputation decide the great teams, not the trophy cabinet.

Brazil 70
April 05, 2005

Mee-that sounds a very English attitude to winning.If England had not won in 1966 (dodgy goals or not)the country would have no claim whatsoever to being a major international football power.In any event the national team must share your view as they have been good losers at every tournament since then.I would like to say more, but cannot be seen discussing the glories of 1966.

Mee
April 05, 2005

Wirrall G/ Brazil 70: I offer this match as a counter argument to those who say the game is only about winning. The Brazil team team of 1970 are generally recognised as one of the finest international teams ever. Their 1-0 victory against England in the World Cup was significant because it gave England the opportunity to produce their finest ever performance. The scoreline flattered Brazil and even Pele suggested a draw would have been a fairer result. If you study a tape of that game, you will see that England more than matched their hosts - an incredible feat when you consider the temperature at midday when the game was played. The game is chiefly memorable from an English standpoint because of Gordon Banks save from Pele and Jeff Astles ghastly miss. Alf Ramsay himself considered this to be Englands finest performance, eclipsing the 66 final win over W. Germany. For the first twenty minutes of this game the passing and movement of the England team simply took the breath away, it certainly surprised the Brazilians. I take more satisfaction from this defeat than the victory in 66.

Cannon Balls
April 05, 2005

American,it will be tougher for Mourinho next season if he is still at the bridge that is,and that's not so certain with a flakey character like him when something upsets him. There was a certain amount of good-fortune involved at crucial times this season, Robben coming in when they were struggling for goals and old Mother Riley handing them the title with his decisions at OT against us and at Anfield when they should have been beaten over Christmas. Next season the big decsions could go against him, thats how it is in football,and we should know better than most!.

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

There are reports that Mourinho is very upset at the supposed lack of support from Chelsea over his recent problems. Frankly, how can you excuse the excusable? While I don't think there is much truth in his leaving and he'll stay. However, he is showing cracks in his demeanor. He's avoiding the press. Our board and Wenger were more honorable over the handbags at OT issue and accepted humbly the punishment the FA handed down. Chelsea could learn a thing or two. Anyway, its getting obvious that Mourinho can't stand the heat that the press in England is lighting under him. Next season I fully expect them to have a slip and I don't think they'll win the title. I think we'll be back to our best. Everyone healthy, and with 2 or 3 good buys in the summer we'll be our formidable selves again. When he is unable to get the title and the pressure is on, I wonder how he'll take it? If he wins this season, he'd have won the title his first 3 years as manager (He didn't manage before Porto, right?). How will he react to it when it doesn't go his way? I can see Chelsea already has a ready excuse if they go out against BM.

Richie
April 05, 2005

Supermac as he was known was signed for a record fee, £333,333,33. One of the fastest players around as demonstrated on the Superstars programme, winning the 100 metres at a blistering pace. Formed a decent partnership with Stapleton. One of the highlights was a 5-3 win over Newcastle with Mac bagging a hat-trick against his former club. The '78 Cup Final should have been his stage after being a previous loser in '74. Alas, he was carrying an injury and it showed I am afraid. He was to miss out on the '79 final also. Very much a traditional centre forward and a firm favourite with the fans. Sadly, finally succumbed to a knee injury and forced to quit the game at 29 I think. Sad end to a colourful career.

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

Thanks for the report bubblechris, I envy supporters like yourself, Xav T, Eskimo and others who go to those games regularly. CB, I agree. My fear though is if they only need a draw. Then if we play great but still draw they can celebrate in front of us. I couldn't enjoy our title winning game last season because I wanted a win (which we fully deserved) over Spurs as well. The title was anti-climatic because of Lehmann. You're right though, we need that win. We'll be at full strength as well. We should have 4 goals as a team for the rest of the season.1) Runner up in the league at a minimum 2) Beat Chelsea. 3) Win the FA cup and 4) End the season with no more defeats. ***** Exiled, great post. Thanks for posting that info here. Nothing about his heading though? hahaha..joking...his goal v. Blackburn should give everyone a smidgen of how good he can be. Hhis goal celebration has to be changed though, only Rob Keane's is worse. **** Question for the forum. Will the Chelsea game eclipse the Man Yoo game as our game of the season? (as well as for neutrals?). Right now, the press views us and Man Yoo, will it change next season?

Genève Gooner
April 05, 2005

Leave the forum as it is. We can all scroll up and down if something doesn't interest us. An off topic forum? Why not just add a link to the BBC, Guardian, Independent or whatever forums? (a ghetto?). Some of the 'on-topic' messages can be fairly tedious for a lot of us but, again, we have the choice to read them or not. There is a reason why so many people have read (and posted on) this forum for so long. Please don't destroy it.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

Happy to help.

Brazil 70
April 05, 2005

Exiled-Thanks for the wake up call.I found myself sliding into unrestrained nostalgia just then (& rather worryingly beginning to enjoy it).I am o.k now though & ready to face the future.

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

As much as I hate to admit it, even as an oldie. I agree with the sentiments expressed by Braz 70.much better to win at all costs than to play brilliantly and fail. indeed i did not sleep after manure game it still depresses me now. But i still have my memories of historical triumphs to cheer me up.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

Oi! Brazil70... stop talking about the Brazil team of 1970 - you don't like it (insert silly smiley here).

Brazil 70
April 05, 2005

East End Gooner-I was being honest about my view that I like beautiful football but at a raw emotional level, like winning more.Losing some games can be physically painful e.g this seasons loss at Manu when we lost the unbeaten record.I did not sleep that night dwelling on what could have been (another example of the dangers of looking back?JOKE ).I always feel depressed after a defeat , pretty cheerful after an ugly/lucky win & ecstatic after a beautiful win.Playing really well but losing is frankly not much consolation.If the Brazil team of 1970 had just played pretty football & not won anything they would just be another Columbia.I thought some of the recent responses to my comments on not being interested in "old football" quite amusing.Moreover my suspicion that I am in a minority in finding it boring seems to be confirmed.

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

Re Malcolm macdonald. signed from the barcodes for £333,333.33p in summer of 1976. 1976 - 1977 41 games with 25 goals.1977 - 78 39 games with 15 goals.1978 - 1979 4 games with 2 goals.famous for hat trick against barcodes on 4 12 76 in AFC 5 - 2 victory at Arsenal Stadium.

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

Re Malcolom Macdonald. he was crocked by Terry Daracott an Everton fullback of very little skill. It totally wrecked his knee. he played at the back end of 1978. He played 4 times in 1978 79 season scoring 2 goals. Everton game was 26 08 78. His next and last game was chelski on 14 05 79 after the manure fa cup final. He scored against chelski.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

One of the Dutch posters on Mania put this up and thought it might be of interest.....Steve Rowley said some very positive things about Robin van Persie in a Dutch newspaper. I translate it a little bit. Sorry if I made some mistakes He doesn't understand why Robin has a bad reputation in Holland. He's a fantastic player who has to learn a few things. He has a great future. Everyone at the club believes that he's a big talent. Arsène Wenger says that his technique is unprecedented high. Also outside the field they have no doubt about him. He lives 7 days a week for the football. They know that he doesn't go to a nightclub and that he only exercice, eat en sleep. (They have a spy in the Londen nightlife) If we compare him with how he was when he came the first time at Arsenal, he made a big progress. Robin is a lovely, happy boy. He comes every day with a smile to Arsenal. He exercise very hard every day and he has a nice personality. He's a happy go luck-type. Everybody loves him. We care very good for him. He gets attention and support. Arsène Wenger knows that he has the decency to learn. Robin is a lunatic when it goes about football. If he's at home, he only watch football. We give him tapes of his own matches. He often asks for that tapes. He loves it. We have a welfare officer (Paul Irwin) who helps Robin with his problems but most of the time he solves his problems by himself. He is independent and we praise him for that. He has a lovely wife who cares fine for him. Bouchra is a wise person and he can trust her. The only thing that Robin has to do, is to play fantastic football.

GunGun
April 05, 2005

I am relieved that most forumites enjoy the history stories and am also pleased that the form of conduct is being discussed. Some mails are too bitchy and personal. I guess we can all take that but the danger is that the forum slowly degenerates into a hate-page and personal dirt-slinging contest. I think Niall is doing a good job and should not be told what to do. Don`t be intimidated by anyone Niall. Good work, man.Who can tell me a bit about Malcolm MacDonalds time at Highbur`? His name is very rarely mentioned but he was a big star at Newcastle before he joined us and even played a few times for England. What went wreong at Highbury?

Cannon Balls
April 05, 2005

American,we should welcome with open arms that the Chelsea game is the one where they can win the title. What a great chance to put our marker down for next season by beating them on their own ground!.That would be twice that they have failed to win against us this season - in their best ever one and when winning the title with a record number of points. A psychological blow that Mourinho will not relish if it happens. And it can - our record against them at the Bridge is very good - and with our missing players back - Sol played tonight in a reserve match - we can pull it off.

bubblechris
April 05, 2005

Reserves beat Norwich reserves 4-0. Alliadiere(2) Van Persie & Larrson. Excellent vicyory dominated all the way through, well would you expect less Sol, VP, Quincy, Eboue, Aliadierre, were all excellent. Skullason was all over the plce and had a great game while David Bentley must be wishing he was wearing the red of the Gunners. He had some lovely touches but was in a team well out of its depth. Cant wait for the Spurs reserves game at Stevenage next Monday week.

Chippys Chisler
April 05, 2005

I have enjoyed the history lessons on this site recently, as an overseas supporter who came to the Gunners in '71, the history is what makes our club different. Chelski can buy the league but they will never buy our history or tradition and that really annoys them. Embrace history its part of what we are.

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

CB, I have seen the movie. That director is from Philadelphia and all his movies are in or near Philly. Good, analogy though. **** Its possible for Chelsea to win the title at our expense against us. Under no circumstances should we let that happen. That game has to be played like a cup final so that, that scenario doesn't come to fruition. Imagine the Blues and spuds fans having a laugh if that happened? Perish the thought!!**** I know he won't get it, but Fabregas' name should at least be mentioned amongst the final 2 or 3 players for the young player of the year award. We all know Lamps will get the player of the year award. Everyone will view it as Chelsea's year. However, I do not think Mourinho should get the manager of the year. It should Moyes, no matter where they finish. 4th place in April with what he has to work with and his 'best' player sold and his big buy (Beattie) a bust so far and they're still in it, after being labeled relegation candidates in preseason, deserves manager of the year. Mourinho has done a good job. Not denying it, but its like giving who ever takes over Microsoft after Bill Gates leaves as being CEO of the year. As I've often said, there are half a dozen PL managers that could win the title if they managed Chelsea.

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

Cannon Balls is right. You must never forget your past. Thats what makes AFC special, the tradition and history that us oldies were brought up on. My late dad would tell me tales about Wilf Copping and how Hulme,Jack,Drake,James and Bastin were the greatest ever forward line in history. It is stuff like this that makes us proud to say the name.By the way the Valencia game was the day before my birthday. I cried when Brady and Rix missed their penalties.The WHU final was my brothers birthday. It was a week for us. Never forget the low points they make the highs even greater

Decaf
April 05, 2005

Old timers, keep it up. I enjoy your posts immensely. What Brazil 1970, the anti-intellectual brigade, and the clinically impersonal Chocolate Gooner do not realise is that football clubs are about the people who support them. EEG, I agree that the subject of moderation, like any other, should be open to debate. One more thing: Steve M, and the growing brigade of those who were converted during his absence, wanted Gilberto to have a good game, and, hey presto, he gets glowing reports, and the second coming is confirmed. No doubt the same performance a few months ago, when people were getting a bit tired of the invisibility of invisible shield, would have drawn sharp criticism. Context and nuance.

Juliano
April 05, 2005

Worst Arsenal kit has to be the half blue/half green 96/97 away kit, with the two halves separated by a kind of lightning. that was really dreadful. That and the very first "O2" away kit, light blue torso, navy sleeves with some touches of red. Atrocious, that is the word. But who am I to argue, as a self confessed nostalgic of the hooped socks! Without being homosexual, Dennis look great in those!

Cannon Balls
April 05, 2005

American, have you seen the 'The Village' .Not an out and out horror film but sort of scary about people living in a remote Village and terrified of leaving it because of strange creatures living in the surrounding woods. Sounds rather like living in certain areas of North London with Spuds supporters surrounding you!.

Daz
April 05, 2005

That means a lot to me, American. Thanks.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

I was going to say something about the Norwich game but not sure I should. As it's in the past isn't it now history? That's how daft it is.

Cannon Balls
April 05, 2005

Unless someone is living in a parallel world to this with no past ony the present then it is difficult to see how you can avoid history.Traditions and history play a large part in football and always will.Some people may suppose that the history only begins when they decide to support a club for whatever reason.To be brutally realistic it's usually down to the success or history of the club. United have attracted supporters in the past because of the history of the club during the Busby-Best era, and likewise Arsenal and Liverpool for our pasts. Tottenham live on their past history and if it were to be discounted,what would they replace it with ?, you can only marvel at the Robbie Keane goal celebration so many times. I can't see any problem with suporters discussing the history of their club or refering to others after all that's what football is about - not just watching but talking about it also. And i do not go along with the idea that the past is not relevant to the present time in football, we can learn alot from the past, remember the old saying,those that do not learn from the mistakes of their history are doomed to relive them. Like for instance practising for a penalty shoot-out,we were hopeless at it for years even Wenger losing the Uefa Cup Final in 2000 on one to go with the one we lost to Valencia in the 1980 Euro Cup Winners Final.

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

I don't mind the non footie stuff. We've had some very in depth discussions on politics, religion and philosophy. They can go on too long, but so can certain football related debates (Ljundberg v. Wiltord for example). For me, its the personal attacks. Not against my person so much but the ones that seem completely filled of hatred. Saying 'you're crazy if you think such and such would be good for Arsenal' is not what I'm talking about. Basicaly hatred shown to each other the way I hate Fergie and Man Yoo. hehehe. **** Thanks Gun Gun. You wouldn't have thought I was knowledgeable when I wanted Saha to come to Arsenal ;- )...I am not looking for anyone banned (unless you post under someone else's name and violate any existing rules of conduct). Just saying what I think needed to be said. **** Mee, I would still like Everton to get 4th. First, because it would be a club other than Chelsea, Man Yoo, LFC or Newcastle. And second, they remind me of the kind of grit and fight that attracted me to the english game in the first place and they're doing it without any stars or flair players. Its refreshing in a way to see a club like Everton still 4th at this time of the season. It gives other similar clubs hope. **** I'm still very surprised Barry Martin (and others) who are laying the primary blame on Norwich's goal on anyone other than Pires. Lehmann shares in the blame, Gilberto shares in the blame for ducking, but its minor compared to Pires' complete and utter indifference near his own box while defending the opponent's most dangerous player. Lehmann's flapping and Gilberto's ducking would have been moot had Pires done his job. Also, Lehmann was back in position for the strike, but he had no chance. It came in with so much force at a close range and not made easy to stop being screened by Gilberto who ducked out of the way. Also, he had a man on the line and the ball came too high and fast. Lehmann had no chance once the ball was struck. **** Niall and Daz, I'm having some fun picturing you both in my mind's eye holding hands singing...kumbayah...my lord...kumbayah....lol. Class of you e email him Niall, Daz...well...hmmm, I don't want you banned. That's the best I can do when commenting about you. ;-)

AmericanGooner
April 05, 2005

Solman, while I completely emphasize with your frustration with Reyes, I do think that he can make it. If he never had an impact, I would agree but last season around this time and September tells me he can. He was good enough in September, do you agree? He was still over running the ball and getting pushed off the ball then. I wouldn't want to see him go so soon. I'd still like another year from him at least. **** I've asked before but do not recall any one offering an answer. Which of the two (Beckenbauer or Platini) is favored to win the presidency? **** Exiled In Newcastle, are you sure the police there are not using the NYC police handbook?

Sabir
April 05, 2005

It'll be interesting to see who gets the player of the year awards. A lot of people are saying Terry (he has been immense). I've also heard Robben and Cech. Not sure if Robben's played enough, but the three of them have had a huge impact. Henry's stats alone qualify him to be challenging. I don't think he will win it this year, but if that was anyone else with the same stats, they'd probably win it. Gilberto's performance, in fact the team's performance, needs to be kept in perspective as it was only Norwich but at the same time, we're entitled to enjoy ourselves. It was a fab result and a great day all round. Personally I can appreciate Gilberto and in my opinion, he does offer some solidity to the team. He's strong and athletic, intercepts well and has aerial ability. But if you're looking for him to really catch your eye - wrong man. I always thought he was ideal for some games and Edu was better suited to others. It's like Flamini and Fabregas. You'd play Flamini against the physical teams. Off topic - Any recommendations for good Horror films? Thanks.

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

I had a strange fondness for the bruised banana away kit. I certainly feel that the simple cannon was a design classic, with or without the cannon balls circa 1979.What about the art deco afc crest.

Mee
April 05, 2005

Rather than the new Arsenal Crest - why don’t they bring back the gun, just plain and simple, white on a red ground. I think spurs have corrupted their cockerel much less than we have the gun. Brazil 70 - you must wonder why those huge guns adorn the stands at highbury - its part of our histo , , , , , , never mind.

Long Time Gooner
April 05, 2005

Mee. Probably - feels about right and would fit with immediately after winning the title. I've been trying to remove that game from my memory.

Mee
April 05, 2005

LTGooner: Wasn‘t that the kit that was worn away to Wrexham in the cup - not one of my favourites.

Long Time Gooner
April 05, 2005

Least favourite away kit ever was that yellow and blue explosion in a paint factory job that we came out with in early 90's, just after a title win I think. It had some design like letter A's all over it. Mind you I do agree that the green/blue one was pretty grim. It will soon be hard to remember them all since new ones come out as often as limited edition postage stamps.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Not debating the rules Rob K just telling Niall what they are. Quite a difference. See, given I was a serial transgressor who indulged in debate with Steve on the very point during my "suspensions" it is unlikely you or Niall have anything close to my knowledge of "de rules". And Steve was much more even than you seem to think. "De rules" were very clear, very limited and very evenly applied. Talk of "off topic" forums etc is plain wrong and not in keeping with your limited, albeit commendable, role as guardian. And this is not something for individual debate by email. It is a fundamental forum issue. The very use of the word moderator is inconsistent with Steve's philosophy.

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

Mee, have to say I agree with you on this one.The trad red and white, yellow and blue plain and simple are best. however the shirt sales must raise some revenue for the club so we will just have to put up with it.I remember reading about how designers pick the colours of alt 2nd shirts to go with jeans and other leisure wear

Mee
April 05, 2005

Wirrall: I personally hated the last season away yellow shirts with that vivid blue collar and facings, particulary as worn by Ray Parlour who used to roll the waistband of his shorts over about three times. I can’t say I’m that fond of this seasons home kit shirts - as a general rule the less white on the body of the shirt the better -( look away now Nikola and Brazil 70 ) I prefer it when the shirts are true to the original before some 15 year old designer who has never been near a football match decides that all sorts of flashes and stripes are de rigeur.

Steve Martin
April 05, 2005

EEG, the vote thing was trying to be lightherted, remebering my poll a few years back... As for this site it does make me laugh, so keep up the good work, in truth, say what you like, I'll just have to live with it...

Wirral Gooner
April 05, 2005

Poor old Brazil 70. Getting a kicking from us oldies!! On the colour topic does anyone else think that in seasons when we dont have a yellow 2nd kit things never seem to go right? My brother and I wince every other year when they bring out a blue away kit. I still remember with horror the shiny blue and green unbro one from the early 80's.

Mee
April 05, 2005

Brazil 70: I take it your denial of the past also includes the wearing of our famous red shirts with white sleeves? Why don’t we just change colours every season Orange and heliotrope are reckoned to be strong this year.

Alex
April 05, 2005

8 years, and a lot of money, and not much to show for it. Bentley, Cole, Smith, and Hoyte. All are best young players were trained elsewhere. It is possible; Ajax, Parma, Cannes, Barcelona, Clairfontaine (yes, I know it's not a club). So what is the point of are Academy? How much longer until the quality really improves? Or is the problem with British youth? Or British football culture?

Long Time Gooner
April 05, 2005

Brazil70. Another thought In 15 years time will you have to have memories of Thierry surgically removed from your memory? Will you never mention him ever again? Will you never replay those exquisite moments again in your mind simply because they were in the past?

Long Time Gooner
April 05, 2005

Brazil70. I can't speak on behalf of the other oldies. However from my viewpoint I don't comment about the past in order to relive the good old days when 'I was in my prime'. It's simply reminiscing about times that usually weren't that good. It gives a sense of perspective to the fortunate times that we have experienced over the past few years. I suspect that some of our current fan base think that winning titles and having the bast player(s) in the world is the norm. Yes 71 and 89 were great but there was a lot that wasn't. Doesn't stop the love and the pain that goes with supporting Arsenal and the delight in sharing in the history.

Rob K
April 05, 2005

Guys - please don't debate the moderator rules w/ Niall. As Steve used to enjoy saying - its his forum and he can do what he likes. Whilst it isn't our forum, we hold it in trust for the big guy. Niall and I will try to moderate with Steve's light-handedness - but like Steve will show no patience for comments about the site moderation. If you do have to raise a moderator point by all means email one of us. Lets try to use our normal restraint to avoid the need for any moderation. PTBA-SG-G

Cannonn Balls
April 05, 2005

Niall,according to Souness only one player was involved in the handbags and that was Bowyer who head-butted the innocent Dyer threw a cluster of punches and then to make it look like Dyer was involved Bowyer then tore his own shirt from collar to waist,to reveal that even on a cold day on Tynside he does not wear a vest - who says Southerners are softies??. Now before you start having a pop about one fringe England player and one who had one game let me jog your selective memory about your Captain,who but for the grace of Old Mother Riley would have had another early bath last Saturday for an atrocious tackle.I refer of course to his infamous bust up with the then Republic Manager Mick McCarthy which led to Keano walking out on you at the last world cup and dashing back to Manchester to walk his dog and get condolences off his mentor the drunken jock. Mc Carthy though reveals why Keano might not have rated him has a manager,giving an insight into what his half time team talk consists of when things are not going too well. He says my magic words go something like this: "f***, b******s, b*****d, c**p, and p**s poor." Well it's obvious from that what was wrong, the team-talk was too intelligent for Keano to understand!.

Daz
April 05, 2005

Well, Puzzled, far be it from me to blow my own trumpet but I, the mighty Dazimus, father of a murdered child, owner of a giant ego invented it. Steve G didn't like swearing OR using the actual letters followed by asterisks as in Niall's appalling example to me yesterday or one of my drunken outbusts to chocolate which Niall rather unfairly reminded me of (frankly I think if you haven't been termporarily banned as both myself and EEG and I think KiwiPete have you can't really consider youself a forumite) . BUT anyway I digress, Mr Gleiber didn't mind a substitute and as EEG was the main user of the asterisk and a man as foul-mouthed as they come I used E*G as a replacement. Actually, I find using it now very - if not more - satisfactory. See, it's not so hard to find a modus vivendi (check me out, guys) if you really put your E*Ging mind to it.

Daz
April 05, 2005

The thing is, there's nothing wrong with people saying E*G me this is getting boring about ANY debate and, believe it or not, I notice that and it's only when chocolate is particularly E*Ging irksome or lies directly that I have to feed the horrible addiction that is engaging with him. What I really hate are the hypocrites who have a go at you and then get narked if you return fire, the stupid whinging about "show-offs" and "intellectual poseurs" and people who call for censorship or say that the forum HAS to be for one thing or that yes non-football topics should be tolerated but only the ones they approve of. Also people who are so thin-skinned that you wonder if they ever get of the house, bleating about insults. Yesterday, Niall called me a E*G (well actually he called me a but I hate to break forum rules). Do I give a E*Ging E*G? It's so not a big deal and anyway now we're back on speaking terms and he's held his hands up, admitted Ireland are E*G and that I am the cleverest of all the clever, renamed his cat Oliver instead of the ludicrous Pires and conceded that I am indeed the Cesc Fabregas of the site - (you silver-tongued charmer JamesLT). Anyway, now that my brownnosing little buddy decaf has so brilliantly exposed chocolate for the charlatan that he is - blatantly cut and pasting his google results I shall simple reply Hegel.Net every time he annoys me so brace yourselves for a lot of Hegel.Nets.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Brazil 70 - "I like my team to win and play beautiful football (in that order)". Highly controversial. And what person involved in football either as a fan, player, manager at any level has a different "philosophy". Which person says "I like my team to win and play ****"? Its the "order" which is the cop out. You think Brazil 70 and Arsenal now represent your philosophy but they had more balls because it is the beautiful football that comes first. The winning came about through that football but it was a decision in which direction to go. Other people with the same priorities as you, the same philosophy, have produced horrible-looking teams because the winning comes first. It truly doesn't for me anymore. And I dont believe that is how it works for Wenger either. I believe he has a philosophy about how the game should be played and then works to combine that into a winning formula.

Puzzled
April 05, 2005

What the E*G is the whole E*G thing about? What do the letters stand for

Mee
April 05, 2005

Brazil 70: When exactly does the present turn into the past for you, is it 3 hours, 3 days, or 3 months? It seems odd to invoke the spirit of the 1970s Brazil team with your forum name, and yet have no interest in the players whose performances you obviously admire.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Daz/Niall - I certainly agree Niall is taking on a task that is both uneviable and commendable. And I apologise to you Niall if my post seemed a little strong but I was concerned about the tone of your post. You have even encouraged the loon that is my mate Harlow to have another stab at electoral organisation! Why limit your vote to the forum Steve? What about "positive or negative"?! As far as I see it there is no vote to be had. Steve Gleiber was very clear to me "no intervention apart from swearing and offensive posting". And offensiveness is not to be judged by the feelings of the recipient. People know what is generally offensive. That rule is very simple and is one of the foundations of the site. There is no-one qualified to make a judgement on when an argument is boring or has gone too far. And I am not certain expansion should be the primary aim either.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

And then you get loonies saying "what can he do" and "he did brilliantly" after one home cruise against Norwich who, I apologise Harlow, are only officially the second ****test top flight side in the last ten years. You seem to have this obsession with being right. The problem in what you say is that you dont me saying "who is it that knows about football and who just watches and criticises". A statement all the more ludicrous when based on a game like Saturday's. I have never suggested I know everything. I have a view on Gilberto that differs from yours. It is just ****ing annoying to have someone ignore any other factors and believe that the last six months and a win against Norwich proves everything they have been saying! Gilberto didn't play against Villa. The performance in that game kicked the living **** out of the one on Saturday. Who played the invisible shield then because on your analysis he deserves a ****ing medal.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

Fair enough Brazil70, but I still think it strange and ironic that you name yourself after a 35 year old team and don't want to talk about anything other than the present. Surely by choosing your name alone you're drawing attention to the very historical 'happenings' you're not interested in discussing...

Daz
April 05, 2005

OK well I'm back like Harlow and I'm gonna have to stick up for Niall a bit here. Although, yes, I called him Stalin and told him to go E*G himself he is doing something that I wouldn't and he is (and this is NOT meant to sound patronising) finding his feet at it. I don't really mind his idea but only if a debate goes on and on although I worry about how that will be decided. Actually, the Sophist and Zeitgesit type debates are quite a laugh at the beginning but even at the end what could compensate for Detective Decaf catching chocolate in the most blatant piece of googling. Hegel.Net eh, chocolate? No wonder it took you a while to come back. The words bang to rights spring to mind and you're quite right, decaf, it's basic student plagiarism - so easy to spot. Of course such debates can get tedious although I agree with Harrow that they tend to peter out so can't understand why people get so hysterical. And my main point is - what were the big complainers doing at the time? Why didn't they just kick off their own debates? Well I have a theory but better not deploy it. And I have to say that there are people on here like Romford and goonerguru who reserve the right to themselves to attack people for their 'crap' but get all hot under the collar if their own stuff is questioned. Why don't you just lighten the E*G up and stop acting like the forum quality control police. There's no lack of space, that's the whole point. And really I have to say that those that think that I'm so vain that I need the validation of this page for my mighty intellect are so barking up the wrong E*Ging tree. I come on here to have a laugh mostly and - much as I hate to spell it out over and over again for the E*Ging retard brigade - that is as much at my expense as anybody elses.Well OK everybody else except chocolate with whom - I hold my hands up - I'm obsessed in the way that the WW1 Tommy was obsessed with trench lice. I like you Harlow, I think you're often funny and you can laugh at yourself but do I really really need you or any other disembodied voice on here to think I'm clever - not really. So get over yourselves, your stupid conspiracies about intellectual posers, pack away your anoraks, and just relax a bit more. I wouldn't have said anything at all to you, Romford, but if you want to have a pop at me you'll get it back so get used to it and stop E*Ging whinging about other people. Otherwise you can have "Ooh great post, Harlow, the way you were so spot on about Gilberto" or "Oh look there's another strut on the new stadium, won't it be great when it's finished" and everybody will die of E*Ging boredom.

Brazil 70
April 05, 2005

Bernard-You make some points I find I do not want to argue with.You are right, Arsenal have a history & that must contribute to where we are today in in a number of ways.However,I feel of more relevance to this years performance are issues such as Vieira's,Lehmann's & Toure's form.How we perform next season will be dependent on who we buy & who we sell.What we win next season will be affected by who Chelsea ,Manu,Liverpool& Real Madrid etc. buy or sell & whether they get relatively weaker or stronger in relation to Arsenal.I like my team to win & play beautiful football (in that order).Drawing up lists of "old time " footballers does not personally interest me at all (it clearly does lots of others which I accept).My view is that was then & this is now & now is what matters. Exiled-Brazil 70 represented for me world cup winners who played beautiful football & who cemented my love of the game.Why I love Wengers Arsenal so much more than other (old) Arsenal teams, is that I feel the team is infused with the same spirit.However, I hope you note I never drone on about Pele's great dummy against Uruguay or how good jairzhino was & whether he was better than Henry.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

Harlow - I am not that swayed by other players (Henry talks a load of **** at times - "fox in the box" anyone), web-sites, phone-ins etc - and actually of course its only if they support your view that you rate them. At other times you just "**** 'em". So I am to listen to the phone ins now? But you were telling us not to listen to them when the same people were slagging Gilberto last season. It is all too easy to excuse our pony defending, our weak psychology, our goal-keeping uncertainty, our spooked mummies boy of a record buy and our distracted management by saying all our problems were caused by the omission of a player who even his very biggest defenders pre-injury didn't dream of suggesting to be the very pivot upon which stood the entire 2004 Arsenal success that in his absence they have recreated him as.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

You see Harlow - that is your problem. You worry too much about other players (Henry talks a load of **** at times - "fox in the box" anyone), web-sites, phone-ins etc - actually of course its only if they support your view that you rate them. At other times you just "**** 'em". So I am to listen to the phone ins now that all the babies out there have readjusted their view. But you were telling us not to listen to them when the same muppets were slagging Gilberto last season. What is it to be? Everyone looks for excuses. And of course it is easy to excuse our pony defending, our weak psychology, our ageing key players, our goal-keeping uncertainty, our spooked mummies boy of a record buy and our distracted management by saying all our problems were caused by the omission of a player who even his very biggest defenders pre-injury didn't dream of suggesting him to be the very pivot upon which stood the entire 2004 Arsenal success that in his absence they have recreated him as.

Juliano
April 05, 2005

Niall-Vieira was born in Senegal this is true, but he moved when he was 4 I think, and when I hear him speak he doesn't have any accent at all. As for Zidane, he is not algerian, he was born and bred in Marseille, I don't even think he can speak arabic. Them too learnt their trade at AS Cannes by the way, and it has to be said that Arsène Wenger had been member of the youth coaching staff at AS Cannes (though probably before Vieira and Zidane's time there) and that this club has brought up some of the most promising talents in France (Gaël Clichy amongst others, but also one who was tipped to a big future but quite didn't live up to the expectations though apparently having a decent career in Spain, Peter Luccin)

steve martin
April 05, 2005

Niall, bit like the English team, some of the come from Manchester...

steve martin
April 05, 2005

Bernard, taken on a goals to games ratio, Henry is the best ever in the premeirship, he can even discuss Philosophy and Zeitgists, tell us the best wines, knows who the best out of Silvinho/Cole and Edu/Gilberto and could give us the difinative answer as to whether Ireland actually won/lost in the world cup...

Juliano
April 05, 2005

That said, seing that the french manager recently played a right footed player who only uses his left foot to get on the coach, Queudrue might be considered in the future? (if only to prevent him from playing against France :))

Niall
April 05, 2005

Juliano, France being a prime example not "the" mate, I wasn't singling you guys out. However, wasn't Vieira from Senegal, Zidane from Algeria and others from French colonies? Not trying to offend, just pointing out that Ireland are not alone, although Quedrue does sound like its pushing it just a bit, unless he has an Irish granny?

Bernard
April 05, 2005

Today's Guardian list the number of goals and games played by those Arsenal players who have scored at least 100 for the club. The number of games per goal (which I calculated for them all, the Guardian didn't show that statistic) for Wright and Henry is almost identical. However, I've no doubt Henry would be miles ahead in terms of assists.

Juliano
April 05, 2005

Niall-France being the prime example? I don't think the french team has ever played a player with so little connection to the country as Queudrue would have to Ireland.

steve martin
April 05, 2005

Democracy in action, lets have a vote on weather the site should be for mainly football or not... Half the problem comes form those showing of their intelect by going on for too bloody long about it... You mention the word Philsophy and three months later they are still going on about it, not anything interesting I might add, No! just trying to prove that I'm more intellugent than you are. or you don't know what your taking about... Talk about needding to get out their and grab a life...

Niall
April 05, 2005

I'd take him cos he's better than O'Shea myself. Anyway, so what, we could sit all day and count numerous players not playing for the nation of their birth, France being a prome example.

Juliano
April 05, 2005

Is this story about Queudrue true? I can hardly see how he could be eligible to play for Ireland, he has always been french as far as I know, and he hasn't ever played in Ireland. Is he married to an irish woman?

Romford Gooner
April 05, 2005

For what it's worth I would be quite happy to see Quedrue play for Ireland as it goes a long way towards totally devaluing Internationals and hopefully towards a point where top players will no longer want to play in them.

steve martin
April 05, 2005

You people, when something is atrring you in the face, Gilberto, you just cannot admit your WRONG, read some of the other web sites, listen to the Arsenal fans on the radio, listen to Arsene Wenger, what they say about him, even TH14 today on SKY, but NO!!! if you EEG, you must be right, listen lads I'm EEG, I say Gilberto's crap, whenever we beat someone easliy, that are the dregs of the division, anything to deflect the fact that in reality my knowledge of tactics and basic football, could be written on the back of a first class stamp... Still as I said time will tell...

Jimthegooner
April 05, 2005

What do you guys want Gilberto to do? I know Norwich were crap but considering Gilberto hasn't played a first team game since October i thought he did brilliantly. Gilberto isn't blessed with the skill that Henry or Pires has, he can't score superb hat-tricks or play several defence splitting passes. His job is to break up play, get a foot or body infront of the ball, disrupt the oppositions ryhthm and then play it simple to a player that can deliver a great pass or score a graet goal. In my opinion he is very important to this Arsenal team and has recovered just in time in order to help Arsenal gain second spot and hopefully a FA cup winners medal. Although Edu has improved vastly over the last 2 years at least Gilberto hasn't pissed around and looked for a better deal in Valencia just because he got called up to the Brazilian national squad a few times! Give him a break.

steve martin
April 05, 2005

EEG, it's all about understanding someone... I said I did not miss GOING to football, I did not say I miss watching it or talking about it, Big Diff, does that help...

Niall
April 05, 2005

Wasn't as funny as two England internationals having a full scale barney on the pitch Cannon, surely, even for a man as easily amused as you!!

Bodies In The Box
April 05, 2005

Seems from reading some people's opinions, Gilberto has had his best season for Arsenal. Yet he has hardly played. Strange. He played a decent game on Saturday against the crappest team in the league, but I'm not gonna change my opinion that he is the ideal man to partner Vieira based purely on the fact that we have been conceding more goals without him. Ridiculous. I'll look more to the stupid keepers we have, the injuries and poor form of Sol, the constantly changing central defensive pairing and the poor form of Vieira as the main reasons for that. Most people agreed at the start of the season that Edu was the man that should be first choice in that position. I've not changed my mind on that, because neither player has played enough this season to prove me wrong. All this stuff about Gilberto suddenly being a brilliant player based on what has happened in his absence in utter drivel.

Cannon Balls
April 05, 2005

One of the more amusing things over the weekend apart from seeing that shot of Robbie Keane diappearing down the tunnel at Villa in a huff after learning he was 4th choice striker at Spuds; was the interview with Frank Queudrue after the Palace game. Frank a Frenchman who has played for the French B side at full-back says that he now wants to play for the Republic of Ireland !. Having done a quick check on his lap-top on his ancestory Frank discovered that he has a gaelic one back in the mists of time. Which makes him egligible for Kerr's team. To further boost his claim Frankie also points out that: "I have tried Guniness and i like it". Right that will get him a Green Shirt for sure!.

Harrow Gooner
April 05, 2005

East End Gooner - Well said re Niall's rather scary post over the weekend. That kind of autocratic nonsense from one of the forums moderators is an insult to its participants. While there have been several tedious topics discussed (Sophism being just one example), these "off the topic" discussions (in moderation) is what makes this site so special & any excess tends to be self policed anyway (like when Daz realised that the Sophist debate went on far too long). IMO, the new moderators (& thank you to them) should either follow the founder's philosophy when policing this board or quit & start there own forum with rules that they design. If it aint broke....

Phil
April 05, 2005

Daniel Cohn Bendit, a German European Parlamentarian in Strassbourg has decided to form an "Alliance against FranzBeckenbauer" in order to prevent him from becoming UEFA boss.Platini is the right man for Europe he claims, should the Kiaser win it will be all about the giant-sized multinationals and slush.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

By the way Daz - I watched Open Water last night and found it tense as **** but not that depressing. I enjoyed it. OK I am not saying it was a feel-good film but I like it when they cant get a Hollywood ending out of the story. I reckon they abused the poetic licence with the "cast-off the gear and go down with dignity" ending. It was a bit of a cop out since in all likelihood she probably did her very best but ended up being eaten all the same - maybe even by her husband if they really did last the twenty hours or so. In that time you would get very hungry. Good lesson in not ****ing with the sea - which is a general rule of mine since I nearly died in Sri Lanka. Not at the "hands" of a shark but as a result of the kind of currents that give it the Lee Bowyer on your ideas of your own strength and immortality. Kept me awake a bit last night thinking of being out there in the water. Enjoyed it though!

Exiled In Newcastle
April 05, 2005

Brazil70 - if the past has so little relevence why call yourself Brazil70 not Brazil05?

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

And finally - one for the "off topic" forum when its CREATOR has finished his work. What a great weekend in London. The weather makes it - and for me it is better at this time of year than the summer - it is such a relief from not so long ago. Had the back end of last week off and have had four days of being out and about. The new(ish) park in Mile End, London Zoo (vastly improved - "meet the monkeys" is a great exhibit though brings to mind the Peter Kay quote about the smaller the monkey the more it looks like it would kill you given a chance), the pub (outside with the kids running around), my mate's back garden. Blinding all round and only an hour of football in the entire weekend. And do you know what Harlow - I didn't miss it a bit. As of course neither did you. Which brings to mind just one thing - if that is the case, why are you so ****ing insistent that it is the only thing people talk about on here?

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

On the football - it is great to see the "I told you so" revisionists couldn't even wait a sensible time before jumping in with their Gilberto foolery. So he had a decent game in a walkover against the crappest top flight team for many years and of course it proves that Harlow is the man who knows the game?! Classic stuff and you are bang on fellas. On the basis of that performance I agree what a brilliant player he was all of last year. Silly me for watching him and doubting him. Everyone will know how much work it takes to make that invisible wall (invisible to everyone except Chocolate and Harlow of course) against Norwich. He certainly managed to make his head invisible when that Huckerby shot came near it!

Romford Gooner
April 05, 2005

I see the barcodes have fined Bowyer 6 weeks wages! I thought the max under PFA rules was 2 weeks?? Am I the only one who can see the nightmare scenario that is the Chavs winning the title against us on the 20th? Daz, I've read your latest rubbish and will go back to ignoring your stupid posts as I have done previously.

East End Gooner
April 05, 2005

****ing scary post from you Niall over the weekend. The one where you introduced YOUR ideas about an "off topic" forum for debates YOU dont consider appropriate for YOUR new toy. I discussed people's concerns about non-Arsenal posts etc with Steve on a number of occasions and YOUR ideas would be a complete and utter betrayal of what he and this forum stood for. I apologise if this seems a little harsh and I suppose it is possible that you are doing this with the best intentions but it certainly doesn't come across that way. There are reasons why this forum was the best around and chief among them was that Steve had a philosophy of no interference on anything but swearing (a bug bear of his). Neither you nor anyone else has any right to alter that philosophy in even the smallest way. I along with many others are grateful for you, Rob and Roger acting as the technicians in administering the forum. But remember that is all you are.

Juliano
April 04, 2005

Sorry if it will sound a bit arse-licking but as a fairly recent fan, I find the posts about the Arsenal of the 70s and 80s highly enjoyable. Being from another country, it's not easy to feel the club and it's history, and reading raw facts cannot be compared to reading the first hand experience of those who were there, who saw Brady, McDonald, Ian Ure and so on. So I beg the "Old Timers" (no offence meant) to keep up posting their stories, those who are not interested can just skip them.

Bernard
April 04, 2005

Chippys, he was on the right.

Chippys Chisler
April 04, 2005

Only saw highlights of Saturdays match, can I ask someone who was there if Freddy played on the right or left. On the highlights he seemed to spend more time left with Pires central. Even his goal came from a right wing cross to the back post.

Bernard
April 04, 2005

Brazil70, yes what happened in the 70s and 80s very much has an impact of the modern Arsenal. For a simple example, those decades affect the size of our current fan base, which effects the need to move stadiums, which influences Wenger's transfer budget, which determines the players we have (or don't have) on the pitch, which effects results. The history of the club I would imagine also had an impact on Wenger's decision to take the job in the first place, and that's massively relevant to the modern Arsenal. And I think the ability to learn from past errors is just as applicable to football as to any other walk of life. You may not find the past very interesting, and that's fair enough. But please don't claim it's not relelvant to the club's current fortunes.

Barry Martin
April 04, 2005

Cannot believe there has not been criticism of Lehmann's totally unprofessional performance v Norwich.I was already angry at Lauren for not getting across quickly enough and giving away a corner when he could so easily have just conceded a throw. We know how dangerous corners are for the oppsn. Then Lehmann gets all fidgety as a Norwich player stands in front of him,flaps at the corner and then worst of all comes off his line remonstrating with the ref (presumably over what he perceived as a foul)while the ball is still in play. He is then not in the right posn for Huckerby's shot. Unforgivable. I cannot wait for the summer to see the back of all 3 keepers. Good riddance.If Wenger cannot find a top class one abroad there are at least half a dozen in the PL who are better than the 3 we've got.

Harrow Gooner
April 04, 2005

I was at the Norwich game and IMO, apart from TH14 the best player on the pitch was our (now afro haired) Brazilian who almost managed to be everywhere at the same time. His touch was assured and he mopped up all the loose balls in midfield. We improved after Cesc replaced Flamini (who was very ineffective & looks ill suited to our playing style) but the fact that we totally dominated the game was almost all down to Gilberto winning posession and keeping things neat in midfield. I'm still not happy that we could not keep a clean sheet at home against the worst side in the Premiership. However, it was a great sunny day, great goals (inc Huckerby's corker for Norwich) & a lovely atmosphere - could have been 8 or 9 nil. A fantastic steak lunch in the Mezzanine Suite (with Frank Carson entertaining) before the game & meeting TH14 on his way out after the game topped off a great afternoon. NB - it was SOOOO obvious that TH14 & Reyes dont get on. He seems like a disruptive influence & cant go soon enough for me.

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Decaf,football is full of if's and why's Fabregas, Senderos were thrown in at the deep end and have responded extremelly well. Senderos showed in his games against Bayern Munich and last week for the Swiss against France his undoubted class,just a question mark hanging over his ability to stay fit,like Robben at Chelsea, otherwise i cannot see any logical reason why he should not progress. Fabregas will be even better next season and i would expect to see him play a large part in us retreiving our title from the imposters at the Bridge.Toures pooor heading is a weakness for a CB and our opponents know this and try to exploit it,his positional sense is not great either,he will need to improve on those skills if he wants to retain his position next season at CB.

Brazil 70
April 04, 2005

Bernard-I am not arguing that in some( very rare for football) instances lessons cannot be learned from the past or that posters cannot discuss their favourite teams from yesteryear,just that I personally find it boring,irrelevant & don't read it.Honestly, do you feel what happened in the 70's & 80's (even early 90's) has any relevance to what happened saturday or will happen to the team next week? Arsenal is now a team of largely foreign players managed by an urbane multilingul french economics graduate whose last team was in Japan & whose current biggest threat is a Portugese Psychology graduate backed by a multi billionaire Russian oligarch.Who could have forseen that in the 80's.IMO People talk about the past (10 years or more) because they are getting older & like to relive the "good old days" (when they were young & in their prime possibly) which is fair enough,not because it tells us anything about what will happen today or tomorrow in the modern game.That's my view which I suspect is a minority view. But I repeat, I am not attacking anybody's right to wander down memory lane.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

And if Gilberto and Edu had been fit all season would Fab have got a look in? And with a fit Vieira and Gilberto next season?

Decaf
April 04, 2005

With the exception of Cygan (if only "the exception of Cygan" from our team became permanent), most of what you say, Cannon, is based on one season or even one game's worth of analysis. Kolo should be given another chance, because he is a monster and (I think) has the defender's instinct. Someone pointed out his farcical heading technique, but couldn't he work through that? Similarly, Vieira has only had one bad season (last season he was OK if not as dominant as he has been) and may turn it around. Cesc may look good, but it is simply too early to tell, and the same goes for Senderos. Campbell I am sure will be back to his best next season. Gilberto? Absence makes the heart grow fonder soon to be replaced with familiarity breeds contempt?

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Decaf,i must confess, and i only watched a recording of Saturdays match against a poor Norwich who look lower league material, but we seemed not to miss Vieria. With Gilberto playing, who also seems to gel better with Fabregas - by not unlike Viria trying to be the playmaker - but sticking to his holding role in front of the defense -and boy did they need him - just that ducking out of the way of Huckerbys - the poor mans Damien Duff - to blot his copybook, on what was a very encouraging reappearance - albeit against modest opposition. However defense wise already Senderos looks to be a massive influence and was missed. Sol came back from Euro 04 injured and missed pre-season and in truth looked like a shadow of last seasons player. We need to see if after his recovery and return to full fitness how it pans out for him. Toure though very mobile does not really cut the mustard for me at top level, but those are problems for AW to ponder upon and with money to burn he will i would expect address them if he believes it nescessary to do so. Cygans got to go - he looks slower than RVN and that is seriously slow! - he did little wrong on Saturday but his lack of co-ordination with Lehmann who is another one that is unconvincing is apparent - and players due to the bald-headed ones slowness are always having to watch out for him knowing that he is an accident waiting to happen. I see that Owen scored his 13th goal of the season for RM last night in one of his few starts, he could replace the Horsefaced nerd at OT in the summer. I am still not convinced either about Reyes and would like to see RVP get more action in the remaining games this season. I reckon like most that we will see a few comings and goings in the close season and maybe a surprise or two.

Mee
April 04, 2005

Perhaps we should ask ourselves the question of why CG feels he has to resort to googling websites in order to give his utterances some sort of validity. Perhaps he is blinded by the intellectual glare from Daz and Decaf (among others).

steve martin
April 04, 2005

Exiled I could not agree more, Freddie Shepherd should tell them they are not wnated at the ground... I'm sure it's only for publicity... They should be out on the streets getting the real criminals, but hen that's to hard for them... The Law in this country is, simply put, pathetic...

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Relevant of course or irrelevant it all seems much ado about nothing.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Cannon, what makes you think all of us have laid down our arms? We colonials are made of sterner stuff than you soft stay at home go-off-in-a-huff types. *** If we rule out the unthinkable (Henry being tempted away or getting sick of it), the big footballing question for me is out spine. Can Vieira and Campbell get back to where they were? Another season with effectively half a Sol and half a Paddy will b another season of frustration, especially with Paddy as club captain.

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

The only relevent question is,who really cares anyway?.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Daz, your quite correct CGs utterances are like one of those student essay that has suspiciously lucid bits between the much. I couldn't be bothered to go through all of Choc's "suspiciously lucid bits", but got this from Hegel.net (http://www.hegel.net/en/spirit.htm). “'Geist' is a German word which has all the meanings of the English words: spirit, mind, soul and the French word, esprit. German language makes no distinction between spirit and mind: for both, Germans use the same word, 'Geist'. While 'Geist' is usually translated either as spirit or mind (e.g. Philosophy of Spirit, Phenomenology of Mind), the English reader is perhaps well-advised to think of 'Geist' as both together, e.g. Spirit/Mind.” Choccy wrote: “'Geist' is a German word which has all the meanings of the English words: spirit, mind, soul and the French word, esprit. German language makes no distinction between spirit and mind: for both, Germans use the same word, 'Geist'. While 'Geist' is usually translated either as spirit or mind the English reader is perhaps well-advised to think of 'Geist' as both together, e.g. Spirit/Mind”. Hegel.net shamelessly plagarising AND falsifies the date to make it seem like they got there first?

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Gut tag!. It seems rather like the day after the Lord Mayors Ball on here today!. There was more abuse flying about yesterday than in a debate on Fox-Hunting in the House of Lords. Wenger urging the board to put AC3 on to the same wage parity to the other top earners at the club around £75000 a week seems to be a sensible idea. The original offer of £45000 a week seems in view of Coles improvement and world class rating to have been well short of the amount of money that he would be earning elsewhwere. Chelsea were prepared to pay him £90000 - Wenger points out that we cannot match that figure but is hopeful that AC will stay at the club. Cole could of course do a Sol and see out his contract and leave on a Bosman - that would coincide with our moving to the new stadium - so perhaps the lure of that and Wengers persuasion - plus the what must have been the highly unpleasant, and nauseating experience of having met Kenyon and Moaninho face to face will deter him from leaving and prompt AC instead to sign a new improved contract at Londons biggest and most famous club - rather than move to a smaller one that is temporarily flush with someone elses money???.

Niall
April 04, 2005

Well Exiled, at least you weren't brutally attacked by a member of the local constabulary and thrown to the ground in an attack that can only be described as vicious when I was and am an innocent man. At a mate's house for a party when we were 19-21, things were getting a little out of hand and the pealers were called in (all the best parties had to have a visit from Special Branch). As they entered my mates house without the express permission of the owner, I stood up, all 5'9 skinny rake of me to the 6 foot 4 burly cop and told the cop he had no right entering the house. He also had no right to grab me in an armlock, drag me to the garden and basically humiliaite me either but it didn't stop the fat git. Even since then I've been psycologically damaged and had an aversion to big burly cops who eat too many doughnuts. Can I still sue?

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

I take that back. I can give one example of (to my mind) superb Police work. Now it's certainly not something I'm proud of but someone tried to mug me a couple of years back and I kind of flipped. Broke his leg and arm and a few ribs before someone pulled me off. He had over 100 convictions for mugging and the like but he tried to get me prosecuted for assault (of which, right or wrong, I was obviously guilty). This situation worried me for a while until the Sgt that had been dealing with the case turned up at my door and asked to come in. I thought I was about to be nicked but he was there to tell me that they'd 'persuaded' the guy to drop his charges, if I didn't follow up the original mugging.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

Parkerknoll - from personal experience it wasn't the CPS. With Jr the old bill said they could get the kids prosecuted but it wasn't worth them doing the paperwork. With my car the CPS were willing to proceed but it was the Police that declined. The obvious inferance is that he grassed someone to be let off, but the Police have the ability in these cases to pay insurance costs but they refused point blank. Not to mention the letter we received in December telling us that Jr had been talked to by an officer at a park in town. The letter stresses he did absolutely nothing wrong but was 'in the area'. Now apart from the ignorance of them not being able to spell his first name (which is a completely normal English name) and even calling him something completely different later in the letter, Jr was actually in hospital at the time and there's absolutely no way he could have been there. Not to mention a letter dated 12 Dec referred to an incident on 11 Sept. And this is the same Police force that has officers able to give people tickets for ood tax at 3 minutes past midnight. I'm not anti-Police, but I've NEVER had an acceptable experience.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Exiled, these petty criminals are as irritating, persistent, and seemingly irredeemable as Chocolate gooner, and in the final analysis there is nothing to be done about either. So if you aren't having fun chasing them down (and it stopped being fun some time ago) one might as well do something else of a Sunday.

Mee
April 04, 2005

Exiled: I had my car broken into in a remote country area and briefcase stolen along with cheque books, cards etc. An onlooker gave the id of the thief (teenage boy) to police. The police said that he was well known to them but because his solicitor always cited a child abuse background (real or imagined?) they could not proceed further. If I then visited the boy and removed my own belongings I would be prosecuted myself!

Mr Q
April 04, 2005

Exiled, didnt it occur to the dozy s*ds that he may have got changed before they caught him?

Lemon and Lyman
April 04, 2005

(Written on behalf of Daz who is sitting sobbing with his ball at the end of the garden) Thanks for those words, GaryB, it's really not supposed to be taken too seriously. But you know what they say about never missing your water and it's not good to spend too much time listening to the voices of the "invisible people".That's "invisible people" like Romford Gooner, for example, toasted the cyber-world over for his erudite and incisive Arsenal-related posts. If a PhD in common sense-type like Romford says it's crap then it's crap and we should move on to Gilberto. I should, however, clear up the misconception that Daz doesn't post about Arsenal. Frequently, I do...sorry...frequently he does as you will see if you refer to his postings on Cole/Martin Hayes/the problem with our defence/Wenger after Man U/Edu versus Gilberto, but being the all-round renaissance man that he is he sometimes also finds the time to digress - on a sunny afternoon when nobody is talking about E*G all else onto I-Pods or the meaning of zeitgeist In fact, somebody started a post with "not much more to say about yesterday" although I doubt whether that's going to stop people from saying it again. But no more Daz/chocolate, it's time for the main act (drum roll) Rooooomford Goooooooneeer, ladies and gentlemen and an update on Super-Bob's cruciate ligament worries....

Oliver's Army
April 04, 2005

Watch Niall you tosser, we're coming back for you.

Parkerknoll Gooner
April 04, 2005

Exiled - perhaps you should direct your anger towards the CPS and those that sit in judgement as well as those that control the purse strings. How would you feel as 1 of 3 responsible for policing a population of 85,000 on a weekday evening, if the wider public knew what a mess the Force was in at the moment they'd never sleep at night.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

You couldn't make it up and I'm absolutely livid. Northumbria Police have issued a statement that they are going to send a delegation to Newcastle United to discuss what happened Saturday. They also say they've received NO complaints from the public. No wonder they don't solve crimes! 2 Examples. 1. Jr was mugged for his mobile by a gang. Id'd the culprits from mug shots and the police said it wasn;t worth proceeding. 2. I'm asleep and my car's parked. Police chase and catch a drunk in a stolen car (with a long record) but not before he crashes into my car. Despite a Superintendant being in the chasing car and id'ing the driver they refused to prosecute because, despite him being seen driving the car, despite his fingerprints being all over the car, despite them seeing him running from the car, they did fibre lifts on the seats which didn't match his clothes. What's the point of them?

steve martin
April 04, 2005

Gilberto has some drawbacks in his passing, but overall, the job he does is crucial to the team, we're better with him than without him... Chelsea have had an extrodinary season, funny how it's coincides with 200m being spent...Exiled, not in my league yet, you have to stay away for at least a day...

Bernard
April 04, 2005

Brazil70, I think you have to realise that in any walk of life the past shapes the future. In terms of health service administration, what is currently happening in the Labour Government's NHS is to a very significant degree a direct result of the service's internal market introduced by the Thatcher Government. Similarly, what is happening at Arsenal now is to a large extent dependent on what happened to the club in the past, just as what happens to Arsenal in the future will be driven by its current position, and its past. That's not to say everything in the past will affect the future, but some of it most certainly will. Hence the idea of ignoring the past if you're only interested in the present or future is therefore a nonsense, in my view.

steve martin
April 04, 2005

Will TH14 get in the top three this season of the Players of the year award... The last two season he has won it, this season is has not left off from where he finished, still scoring bundles, still assisting in loads of goals, still playing great football that fans love to watch... Based on it's the Player of the year award and not the club, will he get in the top three...

DHD
April 04, 2005

Nothing much to add to what's been said about Saturday. A bit of a stroll and a good weekend all round really. Nice to see Gilberto back though. I never thought I'd say this but there's somthing to this 'invisible shield' thing. He really added something with his knack of spotting threats and his amazing speed to close down or clear. He made a big difference to our defence who really had an armchair day. And he was needed because patently the Jens/Pascal/Kolo thing just does not work; it was just as well it was only Norwich. I thought JAR also did pretty well but he got the benefit of a full TH14 strop when he failed to pass to the great man early on. He got another earful from FL8 shortly after. I get the sense that JAR is about as welcome in the THOF dressing room as a fart in a specesuit. BTW, I checked the programme for a mention of Steve G, but I couldn't find anything. Did I miss it?

Decaf
April 04, 2005

James LT. You don't like me. I can live with that. Thanks for the kind words. Niall, as far as I remember, Steve ran this forum with a light hand and a sense of humour. Ring any bells? Let me sum up the two general strands of the 'orthodox' discussion on this forum. a) Gilberto after one average game is suddenly better than sliced bread, QED. b) Orthodox forum members and the police don't like discussion about philosophy or the rules of logic (or I presume, statistical inference, although we haven't yet had Chocolate's and James' views on why all the textbooks and dictionaries are wrong in that particular subject). Carry on!

JP
April 04, 2005

Adam, so far behind? Yes but lets admit Chelsea have had an extraordinary season. the pts tally we have would ordinarily put us in with a 99% chance of winning it

JP
April 04, 2005

Looks like we will need to take pts off Chelsea on Apr 20th or else hope Utd take at least 4pts from their next two matches if we are to stop the blues winning the title vs us. Thats assuming they beat Birmingham next of course!

Adam Pembrey
April 04, 2005

It is strange I suppose, but then who would have thought we would be so far behind? Who would have thought that we would have conceded so many goals? This summer there will be lots of speculation about team line ups and results for next season, but it is guaranteed that things will happen that no one can or will predict.

Mee
April 04, 2005

With Liverpool looking likely to overtake Everton and secure 4th place, I have a feeling that Gerrard might stay. ‘At the merment’ (Lawrenson) he is their talisman, given positional freedom to respond to the demands of the game as he sees fit, it’s an enthusiastic, all-action, high-tempo, aggressive approach. However, when he finds himself in more celebrated company, his plays a less expansive game and his performance suffers. His recent England appearances bear this out and it was particularly noticeable, albeit in a friendly, when he played in the Tsunarmi appeal match rubbing shoulders with established star players. He must be aware of this himself and I would imagine he would rather stay a big fish in small liverpool. I mention this because it might upset Chelsea’s plans to take over the world and consequently might allow us to mount a closer challenge to them next term.

Romford Gooner
April 04, 2005

Who would have thought at the start of the season that Gilberto would be greeted in April like the long lost prodigal son and that Reyes and Cole are seen by some as looking for transfers at the end of the season. I still think Gilberto isn't as great as some make out, his passing is even worse then Paddy's though he is does break up a lot of attacks. Some things haven't changed though, Daz still posts a load of crap on every topic under the sun.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

Hey I'm back. Bet you're all glad. OK, truth is I did it myself because it just occured to me that in all the time I've been here I've never stormed off in a huff and immediately come back and I just wanted to have a go. I realise that I can never reach Harlow's standard, but, hey, I can tell the grandchildren in years to come...

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

Niall - I take it all back. I post and my name doesn't come up!!! What's this - censorship? Come on mate that's just not fair really. I come on here and just want to have a chat and all of a sudden my name's not welcome!! Well sod the lot of you I'm leaving and not coming back.

April 04, 2005

OMOH - cheers mate - keep 'em coming. As for the Mermaid Avenue albums I've actually got that volume in my car and that particular song (along with 'Last night, or the night before last') is a favourite. I'm sure Woody would be quite amused at an old punk and his 16yo grunge kid driving along singing along to Essex boy's interpretation. Pete Seeger and Almanac Singers are also popular here. Quite sadly I first became aware of Woody through his son Arlo's film of Alice's Restaurant. I'm so glad I did watch that film and become interested because Woody Guthrie has become both an icon and anti-icon. Amazing life, and he really chronicled the un-chronicled side of the age (I don't dare make the sentence shorter by using any namby pamby foreign words). Now, football. Gilberto. Not being able to get to many games right now I wasn't there yesterday so don't want to comment on highlights but I'm delighted to have him back and also delighted by Henry's comments about him. The job the likes of Gilberto and Makelele do is the most important in football bar none because it's the pivot. It's also the least glorified (and dare I say understood) as well. Personally I think it's a job that was really 'invented' by the 'W' formation and what was called a centre half then is now a central midfielder. But whatever the formation the job is the same really. The loose guy who fills the gaps. Talking of Henry there was a great bit in his interview for MotD. Titi was holding the match ball and the interviewer said 'I suppose there's no point asking you for that'. Titi grinned and said 'Well I would give it to you but it's only a football and I know you don't really want it' with that lovely sweet grin on his face that makes you want to introduce him to your daughter! DAz and Niall - can I be a godparent? As A serious point in a long ramble I think we should all thank Niall for taking on one hell of a lot of work to keep this place (in whatever form) going. I might not agree with some things but fair play mate (although Spain beat them green boys). And I'm sure he'd appreciate any (real) offers of help taking this place forward.

GaryB
April 04, 2005

O.K. Now I'm worried. About myself. When I first started reading the forum I found Daz to be mildy entertaining. Over time, this turned to irritation. However, now its turned to fascination. I find myself scrolling past the football debates to find the latest piece of cutting insult and wit by, or aimed at, Daz. Generally football is a tiny percentage of the content of these posts so the drama content is high. I've never liked Soaps (except the excellent American comedy called Soap), but find the one currently running on here very compelling. So now I'm worried about myself and feel the need to seek help. Worse still, I find myself reluctantly supporting Daz's existance as part of the general 'richness' of the forum's culture. I would hate to see him (her?) hounded out.

Niall
April 04, 2005

Yes, I am pleased to report that after exchanging a few of these modern techology things called emails, Daz has finally admitted that the Irish side were eliminated from the 2002 World Cup undefeated, having lost the tie and not the match on penalties. He has also admitted that Cromwell was a big tart and murdering oaf and that Ashley Cole was never better than Silvinho at the time. He has also recognised his error in that Edu will never meet the level of Emmanuele (steady on) Petit, but more importantly he has agreed with my great idea (Daz's words) that if long drawn out repetitive debates not surrounding Arsenal occur - to put them into an off topic thread where all the protagonists can hammer away to their hearts content is rather sensible and fair. And who said the Irish and English could never agree, though he knows it was the threat of the reawakened Torqemada that put the fear of, dare I say it, God into him.

Daz
April 04, 2005

Good news. Niall has just e-mailed to apologise for his slurs and also for breaking forum rules by using asterisks with the actual letters rather than the E*G which - modesty doesn't forbid me from saying - I invented. He's said that I'm the cleverest person on the forum and that nobody is half as clever as me and that I should talk about whatever I want and that if he had half my intellectual prowess he'd be a snob as well (obviously I'm paraphrasing) That's good enough for me and in that spirit I'd like to thank Niall in his diffcult task of running the forum and retract my own invitation for him to go E*G himself and I won't now remind him of his own run-ins with authority because as I remember the little BMurph parodies weren't about football but it would be churlish to point that out now that we've kissed (well he's kissed my arse) and made up. And before I go (I'm making this my last day rather than my last post) it only remains to say: chocolate you're a E*G.

Cannonn Balls
April 04, 2005

OMOH,is there any chance of waving a towel of GunGun and making him vamoooosh!!!!!!!!!!!!

old man of hoy
April 04, 2005

For ExiledAn older Jewish gentleman marries a younger lady and they are very much in love. However, no matter what the husband does sexually, the woman never achieves orgasm. Since a Jewish wife is entitled to sexual pleasure, they decide to ask the rabbi. The rabbi listens to their story, strokes his beard, and makes the following suggestion. "Hire a strapping young man. While the two of you are making love, have the young man wave a towel over you. That will help the wife fantasize and should bring on an orgasm." They go home and follow the rabbi's advice. They hire a handsome young man and he waves a towel over them as they make love. But it doesn't help and she is still unsatisfied. Perplexed, they go back to the rabbi. "Okay", says the rabbi, "let's try it reversed. Have the young man make love to your wife and you wave the towel over them." Once again, they follow the rabbi's advice. The young man gets into bed with the wife and the husband waves the towel. The young man gets to work with great enthusiasm and the wife soon has an enormous, room-shaking screaming orgasm. The husband smiles, looks at the young man and says to him triumphantly, "You see, THAT'S the way to wave a towel!

Bored
April 04, 2005

HENRY 4 NORWICH 1. I never thought I'd be pleasantly surprised to see our invisible Brazilian back but I was. Not that he was amazing or anything but he had a solid game. Good job we were playing Norwich because anyone else would surely have punished that shaky defence. Here's a song from some wag in the East Upper; "Jo-se-an-to-ni-oo.....he's going to go-o-oooo". I think it will be a shame if non Arsenal topics are banned. More often than not I think it adds something to the forum but when its tedious, just scroll past it.

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Mee,if you had no idea of what the Philosophical debate was about then then why did you hope that the football discusions would follow suite?. The so called 'Sophists debate'was boring.

old man of hoy
April 04, 2005

Loren and Bergman - what a midfield partnership, eh? The great Woody Guthrie penned the following lines and Billy Bragg supplied the music. Ingrid Bergman, Ingrid Bergman,let's go make a pictureOn the island of Stromboli, Ingrid BergmanIngrid Bergman, you're so perty,you'd make any mountain quiverYou'd make fire fly from the crater,Ingrid BergmanThis old mountain it's been waitingAll its life for you to work itFor your hand to touch its hardrock,Ingrid Bergman, Ingrid BergmanIf you'll walk across my camera,I will flash the world your story,I will pay you more than money, Ingrid BergmanNot by pennies dimes nor quarters,but with happy sons and daughters,And they'll sing around Stromboli,Ingrid BergmanAnd i wouldn't say no to a bit of Totti at Highbury next season.

GunGun
April 04, 2005

American Gooner....I know what you mean. Please excuse some of the forum`s more bitter and aggressive members. I for one, am pleased to read you views and can sincerely say that for somebody living so far away from the centre of footballing activity, you are very well informed about football and Arsenal. Actually, I always thought you were an exiled Brit living in the States. Anyone on this forum who picks on you for being American should be ashamed of themselves. Please stay on, American Gooner, You are more than welcome.

Brazil 70
April 04, 2005

American Can I clarify what I said about the discussions of old football.I said it bored me personally but it was legitimate for a supporters forum & I accepted that I would not find every subject of football related debate interesting .Consequently I did not read those posts & found something else to do.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

OMOH - Bergman everytime. (and I'd like to point out that she also played left half for a few seasons so this is a football discussion...) Oh go on mate, tell us a joke.

Mee
April 04, 2005

Cannon Balls: Let me qualify my last post. What I am saying is that because the Sophists debate was ongoing at the time I firsrt looked at the site, I imagined that the level of football debate would be of a similar quality. I didn‘t understand a word of that philosophical argument.

old man of hoy
April 04, 2005

Can't say i understand how the forum is in any way diminished by contributors reflecting on Arsenal's history, our past players or our own memories and experiences as fans. Surely we are in a better position to comment upon what has been rather that than what may happen in the future? Philosophers please don't feel obliged to answer that one in detail! What we do know is Gilberto has returned and that is so good. The previously fickle fans have warmed to him because absence has made our hearts grow fonder. He is also admired because he has shown a lot of "bottle" in hopefully overcoming a serious injury. Yesterday he played with economy and skill and he had a suprise for us - he has grown his hair. The crowd even forgave him a pass that was misplaced by about 40 yards. Turning to the months ahead i see Real lost 1-0 to second from bottom Albacete so there will be plenty of transfer activity down old Madrid way. Mourinho could be on his way taking Ashley Cole with him. American, the Cole song is a rather mundane dirge copy of one that United fans used for Andrew Cole. Mind you in his relatively unloved state it probably sounded as good as Beethoven's Ninth to the friendless Ashley. Sophia Loren or Ingrid Bergman?

Daz
April 04, 2005

You total E*Ging hypocrite, Niall. Go E*G yourself.

Daz
April 04, 2005

The temptation to attend your own funeral is enormous as Harlow knows only too well. Patrick, you are a great big girl, mate. Why can't people be nice to each other? It is - as Stalin..oops sorry Niall says - a E*Ging football forum. Where do you discuss yours? And I can assure you my life is ticking over quite nicely so the idea that I'd feel the need to seek some kind of validation from you is quite ridiculous. Utterly pathetic and sissy reactions - one last question (maybe) IS ANYBODY E*Gng STOPPING YOU FROM POSTING WHAT THE E*G YOU WANT???

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Mee, why is it that i am not surprised to discover that the - 'Sophisticated debate'(sic) attracted you to the site???.

Niall
April 04, 2005

Daz, thanks for your pathetic email, JamesLT thanks for your much more constructive one. A few points. Daz, remove me from your buddies list all you please. I've never met you, and am unlikely to, especially now!! Secondly, when you were riding to my rescue when I bored the forum rigid (at least it was about football) we'll not forget the time Steve felt he had to ban you from the forum for doing exactly as you are now. Being an arrogant, self seving childish. I thought you had quit posting? For about the fifth time? Anyway, over the past few days I've read you give abuse to me, Goonerguru, Harlow, American etc etc, just so you can carry on your pathetic little diatribe with Chocolate (which lets face it, is your main concern, not the forum). Now that I've responded to Daz's personal abuse to me, all I'm trying to do is move the forum forward while trying to keep its appeal to those who are already here. I have suggested an off topic forum where you can have the debates with others while keeping the Arsenal only people happy, which is what the site was set up for. For example, sophistry and the latest look like they could go on ad nauseum again so they couldbe tapered off to another forum where you can read and participate if you want. Personally, I haven't got anything against the non football topics but when it comes down to the same few people indulging in intellectual snobbery on a constant basis, then yeah Exiled, I think I'd prefer the kids. I'm trying to be fair to everyone here.

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

or 5 pages of 'Reyes only plays well in the sunshine' with such inciteful posts as "I have realised the Reyes plays really well in the bright sunshine. I think that Andalusia, the part of Spain that he is from is really sunny." Niall - you'll be begging for people talking about Sophie (or whatever) before long mate.

Mee
April 04, 2005

Exiled - you took the line out right of my keypad about Brazil 70!

Exiled In Newcastle
April 04, 2005

So no more non football talk...get ready for the 4 o'c stampede of school kids with threads about how gorgeous Thierry is. And (not having a pop but) I do think it's ironic that someone called Brazil70 says don't talk about the past.

Mee
April 04, 2005

Resisted entering the debate but must now do so. The non-football posts from Daz, Decaf and Chocolate are part of what makes this site so attractive. I see it as good natured posturing between well informed individuals. If Chocolate didn’t exist, Daz and Decaf would have invented him. If you don‘t want to read their posts, scroll past them. Thankfully when they comment on football matters their posts retain the intellectual rigor of their philosophical debate. I will go as far as to say that the original sophistry debate is what first attractd me to the site.

Daz
April 04, 2005

Ah you retrieved that one brilliantly, James LT. I like the idea of being Fabregas. I can assure you in my own arch and arrogant way that I really didn't come on here to prove I'm clever to a bunch of people of whom a third seem kind of funny and normal, a third are dull-asE*G suburban anoraks and a third are barking at the moon. And then, of course, there's chocolate gooner. I come on because I'm bored and I work weekends and it's kind of a change of gear and most of the time I'm taking the piss out of myself (something which some people clearly struggle with). Anyway I'm not cheating an employer but my own deadlines so actually that's quite a good wake up call. Anyway, you're in the terrifying hands now of that turncoat ingrate Niall who's forgotten his own battles with authority and the countless times I rode to his own defence when he was boring the forum utterly E*Gless. It;'s a football forum, Niall, you big gobE*G (I won't add 'Fenian' as you might construe that literally as well and accuse me of xenophobia). And of course chocolate who will only post about football from now on (YEAH RIGHT!!!) Hasta nunca!

Patrick
April 04, 2005

American, i wouldn't worry about it. i suppose on internet forums people generally make less effort to get along and be nice to each other as there is no personal contact. I rarely post here but check the site a lot and think its quite pathetic that certain posters go to such lengths to try and impress people with their intellect over the internet. probably due to an inability to impress people in real life.***** Anyway back to football. ashleys song that im familiar with goes ashley cole, ashley ashley ashley cole repeated over and over again. not sure what the tune is. i would't read too much into gilberto returning and us winning 4-1 as it was only norwich but a good performance nevertheless. i think with the right signings next season we should be right back in contention for the title. i really want reyes to stay because like others have already said i can see him becoming one of the best players in the world. i think the club has to make every effort to try and help him settle and that might include arsene telling thierry to get off his back a bit. looking forward to next season already.

SOLMAN
April 04, 2005

When Reyes joined the club I was exited like most fans , on close inspection he looked the real deal , great skills , good looking boy with a great happy personality , i predicted he would be better then Henry BUT now I want him to leave , WHY , on close inspection yes he is quick but not super quick , yes he has got great close control but its erratic ar times , yes he can run with the ball but sometimes overruns it , he does not appear to have a great football brain hence he is on a different wavelength from Henry and co , where are the great goals ??? , for 17 mil I would expect more sorry but he should be sold not because he wants to gos back to Spain but because he is not good enough . Maybe this is harsh but count the games when he has been anything but a marginal figure , when has he taken responsibility and won games for us ??

AmericanGooner
April 04, 2005

Brazil 70, with the exception of the old stories ;- ) (you can't hear stories of the old days like that anywhere on the net, only at a pub) , I agree with the rest. The breadth of knowledge is what I like about this forum above all others. That is what I wrote to Steve about when we submitted emails for the book. Believe it or not, I'm thought of as someone who is knowledgeable about footie matters on one or two other forums I go to, which tells you how lacking some forums are in analysis and critical arguments about the game and about Arsenal. However, you are right about some. I appreciate criticism when its specific. Bernard, Exiled, to name a few, have at least been specific about something I have written that didn't seem true or been mistaken about (were we boring during the '91 season, etc.). Fair play to borrow a phrase, to responses like that, I take no ill will, I've done the same. Some though, will state a generality "American you know nothing about football' but no specifics when I ask for it, which I can only assume then its a dislike for either my style of writing (admittedly boring or lacking the English wit) or perhaps my nationality or perceived politics or their politics manifesting itself. Without specifics I can only assume its personal. I don't mind any disagreements about what I write footie related and welcome the analsys. I can learn something new or solidify my opinion as being correct depending on the response. Americans have a certain fondness for all things English, above any other people on the planet. I guess its part of the 'special relationship' we have always heard here. Growing up, I was no different. I also never try to generalize a nation or people. I take people individually as I meet them, especially after doing a big of traveling throughout my life, but I must say I have a very different view since being on a couple forums, this being one of them. I've disagreed with many at the Brit pub here on various football matters, gooners and non gooners alike. But its rarely personal, we are quick to buy each other a pint and the other person is usually the one that asks for my phone number to hang out outside the pub. I'm told I'm affable (or laughable footie wise--hehe) and an oddity to most being a footie obsessed yank. However, I see a vast contrast between the Brits, Aussies, Irish and the like I meet at the pub and the ones I see posting on here. Are the ones at the pub fake and are really like some of you guys on here? Or because they wished to come here they are the more affable and left the surly ones back at home? I've often wondered and have even asked one or two. I don't care if I'm liked or not, its not what I'm saying, there are a few posters who I don't like personally and have no desire to ever meet, but will agree with them if they are right. Some may feel the same about me perhaps. The vitriolic slagging is scary at times. It takes a brave soul to agree with any footie related posts of the 'unpopular kids' on the forum. Its like in grade school where you didn't want to be seen in the company of the kid everyone picked on. Compounded by the fact that we're all gooners. Its something I'll have to get used to. However, since I can only make it to the pub here a few hours a week for the pay-per-view game each Saturday, this forum satisfies my craving for good discussion, the rest I could do without and if I could find all your collective knowledge elsewhere without the over the top insults I'd go there.

JamesLT
April 04, 2005

DAZ: You surprise me, really. I think maybe you also failed to identify a "tone" that was essentially playful. I'd have expected that from Decaf, the Glenn Helder (no, make that Eddie McGoldrick) of the forum, but not from you, the quick-thinking Fabregas of the forum... Re: Niall's concerns about the forum, I hope there's a way to balance things out. Steve G always managed that well. Niall has a point that too much non-Arsenal debate can just end-up with the debate going around in circles, but pure football discussion can also end up being quite banal - just look at some of the other mindless message boards. For me, the only disappointing and offensive aspect of the Forum is when people repeatedly resort to bad langauge like "*llardyc*", "M**r*nh*", "Sh*r*ngh*m" or "F*rg*s*n", there must be a way of formulating sentences and encouraging debate without always resorting to such base langauge.

AmericanGooner
April 04, 2005

old man of hoy, you said a few sung Cole's name. I've never heard of a chant or song for Cole. How does it go? **** Henry is a genius without question but can show a range of emotions from moody and surly to charming and delightful when he's on the pitch. You can tell he really does want to be humble and good-spirited and liked as a person as well as a footballer but gives way to his emtions at time. A ManYoo friend I have keeps calling him a 'diva'. I couldn't disagree but the common denominators of all divas is their greatness. **** Simon, ever since JamesLT alerted me to him a couple weeks ago, I've seen in him 2 games. 1 bundesliga and an international game and I like him. He's very 'English' in his defending, if you know what I mean. **** DaveM, Wenger may be going with experienced but at least the young players are on the bench. If everyone was healthy through most of the season like last season, Cesc wouldn't have made the bench. Flamini either probably and Cygan would have gotten preference over Senderos. There wiill be substitutions and I take some solace that the youth will be getting a run out. Injuries are part of the game and there lies opportunities as well, although, I don't like to wish injury on any Arsenal players.

AmericanGooner
April 04, 2005

Agree CB, runner up and the cup would also be a good basis for next season and going into the summer. Gilberto, Sol and Senderos will be ready for the tough games ahead. All 3 will be fresh while Spuds, Everton, Chelsea and Liverpool will be on tired legs. **** babu, no way I want Bowyer. **** For a person out for 6 months, Gilberto looked good. He did exactly what his admirerers expected of him. He did add solidity to the defense. Sometimes his passing was poor but passing wasn't anything he was known for before the injury. Yes, he ducked on the goal that was conceded but Pires was more at fault than anyone else. **** I was one of the ones that wasn't a big fan of Gilberto's admittedly (and in some things I am still not), but I do admit to appreciating him more than I orignally did. Overlooking him however isn't the barometer of who knows football and who doesn't, there are many players and things that all of us miss from time to time. Even the ones that always thought Gilberto was important to the side.

Brazil 70
April 04, 2005

Daz-I think that Niall's recent post indicates that a lot of people who log onto an Arsenal supporters forum may be getting bored with the volume of non Arsenal (not even football related ) posts.For the forum to have wide appeal it must in the main deal with shared interests e.g Arsenal & Football.I do not think that those views should be regarded as trying to lecture people on what they should post.Occasional tangential issues can be entertaining but they must only be occasional, otherwise the focus of the forum changes to something more likely to appeal Philosphy students ( I presume there must already be many such sites which those who are interested can visit).Returning to football, I feel yesterdays game provided further support for the argument that the team plays better without Vieira & worse without Silva.I have to admit that is the reverse of my views of last year when I was not a fan of Silva & was worried about the prospect of Vieira leaving in the summer.It must surely be wrong to draw the conclusion that Arsenal are a more fluid attacking force when vieira is not playing & that the real defensive stalwart in the last couple of years has really been Silva? Moreover Vieira's captaincy of France has not been particularly reassuring evidence that he is the best man to lead our team. France has been struggling against some pretty weak teams recently & actually might not qualify for the world cup despite having some very good players in the team.

Daz
April 04, 2005

Oh sure, JamesLT that original "being part" of totally invalidates the main part which even I am now too E*Ging bored to repeat. And THAT's what it was all about. Actually, you're wrong and a person or thing can be part of the zeitgeist which is so E*Ging clearly what I meant but that's really enough of this. In all events, carry on with your own posts which I've always quite enjoyed - but there you go. Bourgeois North Bank? I'd be fascinated by YOUR origins, James - you don't know a E*Ging about mine but, oh yeah, I forgot, "big" words mean you're a show-off and middle-class right? Without wishing to do a Harlow I can't be arsed with people who obsess about "intellectual" posing, are utterly incapable of identifying a "tone" as being essentially playful like the dreary literal-minded E*Gers that they are and nor with the idea of threats from Niall about what he will or won't delete now that he's got his excitable little hands on the reins. And with that he sheds a small tear at the loss of his playmates and sparring partners and deletes it from his favourites. That's the great thing about the internet - and about football players when you come to think of it - blink and they're gone.

Steve Martin
April 04, 2005

Gaz, The Norwich manager, Worthington, when interview after the started with quality Team, quality players, quality club, nice to hear another manager speak the truth for a change… I imagine how it must feel for most fans of other teams leaving Highbury, due to where they are situated in the ground, the majority leave by Drayton Park, where they get a good view of home of the soon to be best club in the world… By the time next season starts, the ground will be almost built as far as the outside is concerned, only the internal building and seats to go in… Can you see the faces of Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Newcastle fans leaving Highbury and seeing the MASSIVE structure soon to be our new home, and the fans of the lesser clubs, hoping that they soon at least have the chance to return to see the best stadium in the Country… When it is complete, Ground, House, Flats, Etc, the whole area is going to be so impressive, that Richard keys, will have enough material to dine out on for months…

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Toss-Pot team that should have read. Come on the Krauts!!!!

Cannon Balls
April 04, 2005

Jojo, get back to where you belong, which is the Chav's board, i would be supporing Martians if they were playing your tosspot team.

JamesLT
Daz, Decaf, Ch. Gooner, Steve M, Dave M
April 04, 2005

DAZ: Whatever you might say now, the fact is that you originally defined Zeitgeist wrongly as "BEING PART OF the spirit or the attitude of the time". Zeitgeist, as used in English, simply means the spirit or mood of a particular time or period, the "being part of" aspect of your definition is confusing and strictly-speaking wrong. The fact that you then refer to a dictionary definition or consult German-speaking friends to defend your position and rebutt Chocolate's argument is laughable and absurd. Never mind Zeitgeist, geistes krank would be a better description. Anyway, why even use the word if you aren't already sure of the meaning? Pretentious, toi? Poor Daz, why do you have such an overweening need to impress everyone? Yes, Daz, you're ever so, ever so, ever so clever, we all know that, now relax. Are these Chocolate-related outbursts in some way linked to your blood sugar levels? Perhaps you should avoid fizzy drinks. Talking of which, what has Daz Lite©, otherwise known as Decaf, done to offend Prof. Daz? I thought they were both joined at the lip. Reading the criticism of Daz and Decaf against Chocolate is extremely funny, if only because they's both been getting more and more desperate, while trying to appear oh so cool. Decaf seems to be slightly fainter and less distinct though, like a little echo perhaps. Unfortunately, Decaf is the bargain basement Clock End to Daz's bourgeois North Stand. However, with the Daz/Decaf alliance now split into rival factions - the People's Front of Verbal Diarrhoea and the Verbal Diarrhoea People's Front - Chocolate can now sit back and smile. Divide and rule... STEVE M: You can deservedly bask in the glory now that the majority of Gooners have finally realised what Gilberto offers the team. As so often, though few here would admit it, you were right all along. Gilberto's the most honest player at the club and I'm pleased he's even playing again after his serious injury. He deserves all the praise he's finally receiving... DAVE M: I agree with you on Wenger's preference for experienced players. You can understand it though. Managers want certainty and experienced players are ultimately more consistent - even if the likes of Senderos, Van Persie and especially Fabregas sometimes outshine their more experienced teammates. The future still looks good though. If Fabregas and Senderos keep up their form, they will eventually earn regular spots. The future belongs to them...

Daz
April 04, 2005

OK. Dem's de rules. See ya...

Daz
April 04, 2005

But there you go, Brazil 70. I didn't mind the memory lane stuff and I enjoy watching people bickering just as I like a bit of a dust-up with Harlow from time to time (sometimes literally). You've got to ask yourself two questions. Does it stop you from talking about what you want to? Are you entitled to prescribe what others should talk about. The answer to both questions is 'no' and I suspect it would have been E*Ging quiet on here otherwise. They weren't exactly queuing up with their thoughts on the points you raised were they. And for the record, there was no debate about 'philosophy' but an argument about the meaning of a word. But I get really sick of people who do the whole 'you're just trying to show you're clever' routine. Oddly, I don't need an internet forum for that I've got people around to tell me what a smartarse I am on an almost hourly basis It's just knockabout stuff so you should really save your little lectures and just talk about whatever it is that you DO find interesting.

Niall
April 04, 2005

Oh my God what a load of boring intellectual postering by a bunch of idiots - in a football forum. Almost as interesting as the sophistry debate that the same three people, with a few add-ins, subjected us to for almost a fortnight. Ok, I'm not going to delete it cos I couldn't be arsed but I may as well let you all know that the days of these "debates" on the main Arsenal Supporters Forum will be coming to an end pretty soon. I know this will be popular with some and less than popular with others, but Rob, Roger and I have plans for this website to grow beyond its current small community and hopefully attract more Arsenal supporters to the board. Discussing sophistry and zeitgeist is not going to help us do that. At the end of the day it is an Arsenal forum and not an arena for intellectual snobbery. Those who object to this and wish to have these debates, then we can discuss the value of setting up an "Off Topic Discussion" board for those who wish to discuss the meaning of German words or other topics unrelated to football. Otherwise, there is a good forum that seems to be there for you already. http://www.vocabula.com/forum/. If anyone wishes to talk to me about this my email is niall_murphy@hotmail.com.

Brazil 70
April 04, 2005

Logged on last week & was bored rigid by all the memory lane stuff about Arsenal of yesteryear blah blah.I am firmly in the look forward camp & like to discuss what just happened or what we think will happen.Nonetheless I accept that on an Arsenal supporters forum some supporters have a legitimate right to discuss their favourite teams & players from the past particularly in an international week.I simply had to read something else I found more interesting until the team played again.We have a big win yesterday,Silva returns ,Henry scores a hatrick & the team plays well without Vieira.The People runs a story about Pires & Lungberg leaving in the summer,& Manu drop points etc.Lots of stuff for Arsenal fans to debate.However you log onto the forum today & all you read is post after post of juvenile name calling & petty bitchiness dressed up as some kind of debate about philosophy.Our own low profile online version of Dyer vs Bowyer.It might be satisfying for the handful of participants but I suspect for everyone else it is pretty tedious.We all know how many people log onto this site as we have seen the tributes to S Gleiber from all over the world.I have also read articles descibing this as one of the most intelligent forums to discuss Arsenal related matters on the web.Those of you engaging in this pathetic name calling do a lot of damage to that reputation.Anyone logging on for the first time wanting to read about Arsenal related matters today will be pretty disappointed.There is a simple solution to this .If someone makes an over the top response to a football point a poster makes you either give a reasoned response or ignore it if it is purely venemous.Otherwise the bickering goes on & on (as everyone wants the last word & to get even if they feel insulted)& the Forum becomes an arena for settling personal vendettas.You cannot beat your opponent to a pulp online & physically silence him.Having said all this I have to be "big enough " to ignore any insults that come my way (from those who like to insult) as a result of these opinions.

Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 04, 2005

Afternoon all. What a thoroughly enjoyable day I had yesterday for a lot of reasons! Saw the lads play some quality football, watched the superb TH14 edge ever closer to IWWW's record, and witnessed another less-than-convincing performance from the 'Jens/Kolo/Pascal' axis! Kind of sums up our season really! Its hard to believe that its only a few years back since IWWW broke Cliff Bastins record and yet in the next 5 games it could be beaten by the best player I've ever seen at the Club. He's certainly right up there with the John Hawleys and Lee Chapmans of this world! (Only kidding of course!). I seem to say this every other week but the guys absolutely brilliant and I feel very privaledged to be watching him play for 'our' Club. As for the Captaincy it sits very comfortably with him and if PV4 does leave (I'll get to that later) I see no reason as to why he shouldnt get it full-time. As for the defence even against Norwich we looked less than comfortable and whilst I think Jens, Pascal, and Kolo are good players individually, as a trio they continue to fill me with zero confidence. Without a doubt we missed Senderos who's value to our side rose dramatically without him even playing. Was pleased to see Gilberto back but like a few others found it quite funny the reception he got. Saying that I'm not going to pretend he's been one of my favorite players as he hasn't (in the playing sense), and I've allways advocated playing Edu in front of him. I'm allowed to change my opinion though and agree that in his abscence his importance to the side was all the more notable. Its because of this that I hope that if the rumours about PV4 leaving start up in earnest again we do absolutely nothing to keep hold of him this time. I'm not prepared to go through another summer of rumours again and I'll go as far to say that if Arsene moves 'heaven and earth' to make him stay I will immidiately start questioning Arsenes ability as our manager. I'm prepared to give Arsene time to get it right as he's earned it, but I cant accept him trying to keep hold of a player again who wants to leave. I hope this doesnt happen but if it does... He's not bigger than the Club and if he wants to leave then let him go. We have a defensive midfielder in G19 (and the impressive Flamini), and if rumours about a possible change of formation up-front are corect (DB10 retireing with a more orthodox striker coming in) then our creativity will have to come from midfield, with Cesc more than capable of doing that job. So for goodness sake if PV4 wants to go lets sell him quickly and move on! As for the rest of yesterdays performances AC3 did quite well and I'm happy with todays stories suggesting he might be staying at the Club. At the end of the day he's not only world-class, but an Arsenal fan and I hope he does stay. Ralph was OK, as was RP7 and Cesc. Jose wasn't at his very best but he certainly looked far better than he did a few months ago. My only concern was that the weather was very good and his poor form coincided with winter! We cant afford to have a player who only performs in certain conditions and I still firmly believe he'll be leaving in the summer. RVP never had enough time to impress as did Clichey. Anyway, to finish on another bright note, the New Stadium was looking absolutely magnificent and it was great watching all the Norwich fans staring at it. Infact I got chatting to a few of them and took great delight in telling them all about it! Come on Arsenal.

Daz
April 04, 2005

Doubt that very much, chocolate, you E*G-end.

chocolate gooner
english'@ decaf.com
April 04, 2005

Damn… I meant ‘taught’ that will learn me

chocolate gooner
english'@ decaf.com
April 04, 2005

Damn… I meant ‘taught’ that will learn me

chocolate gooner
english'@ decaf.com
April 04, 2005

Damn… I meant ‘taught’ that will learn me

Daz
April 04, 2005

What's up, chocolate, they closing the computer room at the University of East Hertfordshire? Poor decaf - being patronised by an idiot like you is about as attractive as a big night out with Lee Bowyer.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Almost as bad a "nautically inclined", hey? Right, now ME gone, choc. xxxx. oooo. xxxx.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Nobody, Choc.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

That sounds like fun, Daz! But count me out. I go for pure philosophy rather than applied. Also, a nice wood fire, a beef curry (made by De Caf himself), several pilsners, and squabbling family await me.

chocolate gooner
April 04, 2005

Sorry Steve but I really do have to go… time flies when you’re having fun as they say but rest assured it will be just footy from me from now on… except for this marvel from Decaf… “You gone" indeed, Choco. In the circumstance, I don't blame you for scuttling off so dextrously.” … that's why I so love Decaf… dexterously scuttling?? Who thought you English? I ask you … how can you not like such a twit as Decaf?

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Choc, you said ONE of your questions. So forget the rest. I never said anything linking Schopenhaur and Geist. Gorgias made a joke, playing on "the world as will and idea", but in the same post mentioned des Cartes (and mispelling it to boot), also as a joke. Or do you think that Gorgias was trying to link des Cartes to Geist too? And why not?

Daz
April 04, 2005

I know let's combine footie and chocolate chat. Have you noticed how he's always 'cutting slack' for players like Cygan, Gilberto and Reyes. But not for Sol Campbell. I wonder why. Is it because he is English, chocolate??? He was poor against Man U but we wouldn't judge any player on one game right?

DaveM
April 04, 2005

You can see from Wenger's pre and post match comments that he really doesn't want to be playing the young players. Given a choice he'll always select the experienced ones. From next week the midfield will be Ljungberg, Gilberto, Vieira, Pires (or Reyes if Bergkamp is fit) to the end of the season. The young players have generally dropped to the bench, and when Campbell, Vieira and Bergkamp are fit there won't even be much trace of them there. This is despite the fact it's the experienced players who've let Wenger down, not the young ones. Wenger's first choice midfield will struggle against sides who pressure and tackle. Norwich didn't get a single booking, which is verging on unprofessional for a side playing us. Anyone who doesn't pick up a booking will invariably be thrashed. Yet I watched Gilberto fail to impose himself on a Southampton reserve side made up of 18 and 19 year olds who just got stuck in. I don't think we'll get enough points to finish above ManU unless someone gets injured. I just can't imagine Wenger leaving Ljungberg, Gilberto or Vieira on the bench so Cesc can play, even though we're clearly better with him in the side. The only selection I'm not certain about is at centre-back. The obvious choice is Campbell and Senderos, but although the former is guarenteed to play I won't believe Senderos will until I see him in the starting line-up. Yet I think Senderos is probably the best centre-back at the club already.

Decaf
April 04, 2005

Dyer seems to acted with uncommon good sense and to have displayed a rare public spiritedness. Bernard, sophists were philosophers, just as Fred is at nicking goals. Them's the fact, no matter how disagreeable. Choco is confusing "sophism" and the Sophists. I wonder if Choc is on his way home now ??? puffing himself up and thinking "yet again I triumph over that overeducated poseur", and chanting his motto "Commonsense, Wenger and google!"

chocolate gooner
April 04, 2005

Decaf… I’ll stay just for you if… you answer the questions. You said Kant finished the job of the sophists. I copied the post where you said it and re-posted it on here- so you can’t claim not to remember… How? By the way here’s a new question…So what’s in Phenomenology of the Mind then? … tell us. And how come you read it but can’t make yourself understood on here. It must be a miracle! Cheers.

Daz
April 04, 2005

Glad you asked, Harlow. It means the spirit of a particular age or period. So when a book for example is described as very much part of the zeitgeist it means that it is in tune with the prevailing attitude or spirit of the time. Of course, chocolate might have an alternative (and doubtless simpler) definition so why don't you ask him. Or failing that, try goonerguru.

Steve Martin
April 04, 2005

Daz, you know I do xxxxxx.... Choc, I have no beef with you or Daz, I'm just wanting a bit of footie chat, The wife and kids have gone out for the afternoon, it's on here or WBA -v- Everton, no contest, so what is a Zeitgeist!!!

Decaf
April 04, 2005

When the going gets hot, the chocolate gets melting away. I can imaging choco trying desperated to read "the phenomenology of mind" preparatory to returning to the front with honour, and saying "oh E*G" after the first paragraph. And even the prefaces is about 100 pages long!

Steve Martin
April 04, 2005

From another gooner on another web site, not me... "I've read that Dyer let down the tyres on Bowyer's car as an April Fools joke. Bowyer wasn't best pleased and told him so. Yesterday, Dyer refused to pass to Bowyer throughout the game and after one too many non-passes, Bowyer snapped.I can't vouch for the reliability of the story but it's the sort of thing that could happen" Very funny if it's true and Newcastles season could collapse because of someone letting down anothers players tyres... Still Dyer and Bowyer are what nationality, could you see the foreign players doing that, apart from Sth Americans...

Bernard
April 04, 2005

I was just wondering, does anyone have any idea whether sophists were philosophers?

Decaf
April 04, 2005

"You gone" indeed, Choco. In the circumstance, I don't blame you for scuttling off so dextrously. They only shoot people for that in wartime. It depends on the Zeitgeist.

Daz
April 04, 2005

Right, chocolate. I was completely wrong wh