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| Rob K - March 16,
2005
Dear Forum - I am very
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POSTINGS: Trimmed - Previous posts archived
Pompey Gooner
April 13, 2005
Perfectly normal to want English teams to bomb out of Europe. I work with 4 Utd fans, 3 Chelsea, 3 Liverpool, lots of Pompey, few bits and bobs and barcodes... Im the only Gooner. If Utd or Chelsea win the Champs League or the Prem then Ive got to listen to all that guff for months on end, years in the case of Utd fans and their '99 triumph. I dont work with any Barca, Real, Juve, AC, Bayern or any other European Club fans, so if they win the Big Show I dont have a group of doofusses (doofi?) giving it the biggie at work. And Im sure thats what it comes down to, the stick and the gloating. Who are our main rivals on a daily basis? Utd and Chelsea. So why should we want them to be successful in Europe? Nothing could be worse really. I did used to work with a Portugese bloke called Bruno who was die-hard Ultra Benfica. He was crying at work when Porto won the Champs League. Not that there were loads of Porto fans waiting outside for him (I kept trying to explain "Its PortSMOUTH outside, Bruno, not Porto"), just that Porto are, as far as he's concerned, the epitome of all that is evil and hateful, and any success they have is abhorent to him and his co-Benficans. Its written in stone for ever, Champions of Europe 2004. And he has to suck on that, just like we STILL have to suck on 1999. And 1999 really does suck, coz if you ask me (and its rare that I agree with Neville the Uglier) that was our best ever team and we won diddle and they won it all. Funny though, the Liverpool fans are almost weighed down by their past success. Its baggage to them now. But its still something they can wave in my face; "yeah, you might be red hot now, but take a look at our trophy cabinet", and you cant argue with it, can yer? Just like we couldnt argue with Chelsea if they win it this year... well, we could but we'd only sound bitter. Much better for me to be giving out the stick to the Chelsea and Utd when they get a good spank off Milan, Im much better at giving it then receiving....
rysk_82
rysk_82@hotmail.com
April 13, 2005
Hope Arsenal can win the Champion Leauge next season, coz it's really make us embarrass and frustrated..........
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
I mean for Paddy to have done it in the changing room of course not, publicly.
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 13, 2005
And to add to their run of good fortune, what chance Shevchenko getting a 3 match ban for the headbutt thus missing the final. A very colourfull Milan derby btw, all those flares could almost have been the '70's.
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 13, 2005
Their rock solid defence conceded 3 and it should have been 5 or 6. Pizzaro missed a golden chance, Ballack blazed over with the goal at his mercy, they had a shot cleared off the line and Huth's header had Cech completely beaten but not the bar unfortunately. The Pizzaro miss was the one that wound me up the most, he was ideally placed and had time to pick his spot but just hit it straight at the keeper, cast your mind back to our visit to Munich and the ball drops from a great height over his shoulder he brings it down and blasts it past Lehmaan in one movement, if he tried it another 50 times he would not score again and that sums up our good fortune in the CL for me. If they should go on to win the big eared one perhaps UEFA could melt it down and model it into the shape of a bus as that seems to reflect their cynical approach to the competition, which is quite ironic given mourinho's witterings earlier in the season.
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
For me, its 1) Man Yoo 2) Chelski (they overtook the scum) 3) the scum 4) Bolton (or more specifically Allardyce)...down the line, any club O'Leary is managing, presently Villa because he has had his tongue between Fergie's butt cheeks too often. The Blades. And the club I have a soft spot for is Crystal Palace. I stayed near Selhurst Park on my first trip to England during my uni days. And also for Man City as they hate Man Yoo almost as much as I do..almost, because no one could hate them more than I do. Had I grown up in London, I'm sure Tottenham would have been number 1. My enmity toward them is not only because a gooner is supposed to, but because when I became a gooner their support would talk a lot of crap to me at a bar I saw the games when I was living overseas. So its a bit personal. I remember one guy referred to me as that 'yankee gooner scum'. I wore the label as a badge of honor. **** Exiled, I'm not one for airing dirty laundry and you're right about that but I'd still like Paddy or someone to have done it during our bad run after the Man Yoo game. Sometimes you need that. Someone to say, lets get our thumbs out and play Arsenal football. I recall one of the stories from the 'old days' someone posted that said Keown went to each man before a game when we were having a bad patch, to question his commitment to the cause. We could have used Keown last autumn if for nothing else but to give the lads a good talkign to.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 13, 2005
Gungun - er, didn't their lauded defence concede three tonight?
Gungun
April 13, 2005
We must learn from Chelseas defensive discipline and maturity. The old cliche of defending as a whole team was exemplified tonight.
They also have a very good goalie. Only if Arsenal are taught how to defend like that and get a `safe as houses keeper` do they stand a chance in th Champions League.
Maybe Arsene does not know the art of defending and can only teach them how to attack.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 13, 2005
American - so Keane bitched about his team mates on mancyscumtv. Again. Big wow. If I was a manc I'd be seriously worried why he has to keep coming out and saying no one else is trying. I'd be worried about the scisms in the squad. I'd be worried that he hasn't noticed his manager mate has lost it and half his team mates aren't up to it anymore. But most of all I'd be worried about dirty linen been washed in public rather than in the dressing room where it belongs. And that's before they start worrying about that yankee nerd.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 13, 2005
Call me old fashioned but the spuds are still number one on my most hated list. I know they're not 'real' rivals anymore, I know they're a joke and don't really matter and I know what winds their fans up most is that in football terms our derbies with them wouldn't generally rate in our top dozen important matches each season, but hey'remy number one. Mancs second and chavsville third. Thinking about it that's been the top 3 as long as I can remember. Deep feelings like that just don't really change. But the barcodes are at 4 with a bullet. Scummy classless fans at a scummy classless club. But I guess we probably all have similar lists, so what about the more obscure hatreds? Two of my fiercest are Hull and Carlisle! Ever since I was a nipper I've hated them both, but I've no idea why. The names? Well they're not pretty words. Being frightened by an ugly player on a topps card? I really don't have a clue. Then there's Sheffield Wednesday and a sadistic games teacher at prep school. I was 4 and the boy I was getting pushed by in the line up was in the year above me (big difference at that age!). So Mr Bastard (OK, that wasn't his name - but it was the actual name of the ref in the 1878 FA Cup Final!) decides that if we're pushing in his line up we could box. Next week we had to box 3 x 3 min rounds. So big boy keeps hitting me until at the end of the first someone tells me to hold on to him. I do my best to manage two complete rounds of bear hugs whilst Mr B is doing his best to pull us apart. Every time he did I got whacked, and the last thing I'd see before I got punched was the sheff wed crest Mr B had embroidered on his sleeve. Thought about him a lot in '93 - made the cup double oh so much sweeter.
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
A part of me does admire Mourinho's accomplishment even wtih all the 'dosh' as you all say, at his disposal. You can't help but to give him credit, even if it has to be done grudgingly. I would really be curious if he could have been successful if he had taken the Liverpool job. I see his taking over Chelsea as when the NY Yankees here get a new manager. **** Dormouse, good points but Geremi was bought to be a primary player, possible starter or at the very least getting lots of minutes off the bench. His few fleeting minutes in this game is overshadowed by the fact that he only sees minutes in league cup games and FA cup ties against lower division sides. Considering the amount paid for him, he's a dud by those standards. Lampard and Cole are playing great but the point is they had the luxury of picking between a lot of players, Veron and Parker for instance in midfield. How many clubs had the money to buy Veron, Parker, Lampard, Cole and Makele? One could simplly play different combinations till you find the right partnershipo. Lampard played well last season as well, better than the others. He improved this year but was still their best midfield player from last season. It doesn't take a genius to keep him in that position. Regarding Keane, I know he didn't say it direclty to the players but the point is, it was said and it was very direct. As far as I know, none of our players have done the same and Wenger calling everyone into his office is the closest thing we have to something like that. Keane's words are known to the players which is pretty profound considering what was said. I referred to top clubs in Europe in my post about the most important person, and I think Chelsea are unique amongst the G14 clubs. A rich owner is common with a lot of clubs as we all know. Bates & Ridsdale left the club close to administration and were more detrimental than helpful to the cause but I see your point.
Fred
April 13, 2005
I glad Chelsea won! Because I want to see Jose Mourinhos standing on the touchline then doing a post match interview when a they lose!
kiwipete
April 13, 2005
Dormouse and Mee.. the rub of the green has gone Chelsea's way and of course confidence plays a big part. That swagger the younger Keane/Sherringham/Beckham had and our own Invicibles had last year just the team coach arriving scared the **** out of the opposition. Hopefully next year the pressure on Chelsea to retain their title a few shitty opening fixtures with bad results... say the dour Bolton opener, away to the Mancs home to us might see a few cracks appear the hyena type media could turn on them and who knows. Nothing the British press loves better than to create an icon then salivate over their demise.
old man of hoy
April 13, 2005
All season I think Mourinho has deliberately encouraged a focus upon himself in order to deflect media pressure from his players - absolutely brilliant psychology. I am sure he knew what to expect from the media when he came to the Premiership and he has managed them as well as his team. By the way where is Carlos Alberto now with his midget comments about Michael Owen? Can't stand Roy Keane but you have to say he is consistent with his criticism of his teamates - heis a bit of a po-faced sod though.
Three Italian nuns die and go to heaven where they are met at the Pearly gates by St. Peter. He says, "Ladies, you all led such wonderful lives that I am granting you six months to go back to earth and be anyone you want.
The first nun says, "I want to be Sophia Loren" and *poof*, she's gone.
The second nun says, "I want to be Madonna" and *poof*, she's gone.
The third nun says, "I want to be Sara Pipalini."
St.Peter looks perplexed. "Who?" he asks.
"Sara Pipalini" replies the nun.
St.Peter shakes his head and says, "I'm sorry but that name doesn't ring a bell."
The nun then takes a newspaper out of her habit and hands it to St.Peter. He reads the paper and starts laughing. He hands it back to her and says.... "No Sister,this headline says 'Sahara Pipeline, laid by 1,900 men in 6 months."
Mee
April 13, 2005
I find Mourinho’s increasingly desperate attempts to draw attention to himself with these theatrical stage managed child-like attention seeking charades he engages in every time the spotlight comes close. Brian Clough was the master of this kind of erratic behaviour, even choosing on one occasion to monopolise the medias attention at a cup final by his refusal to offer advice to his weary players as extra time beckoned, behaviour that was replicated by Mourinho at last years European final when he refused to be photographed with his team. The Sibneft oil wells are lubricating this arrogant parade of smug self-satisfaction and the ceaseless babble of commentators such as the loathsome Tyldesley give him the oxygen he needs to plunder even greater depths.
Dormouse
April 13, 2005
AG - much as I admire your feelings about Chelski, their success hasn't just been about throwing a lot of money at a random collection of players & writing off the duds (btw, Geremi came on late tonight & so isn't really written off). Lampard & Cole (especially) are much better players now than they were last year & they really deserve a lot of credit for getting the idea that football is a team game where it is not OK to swan around when the other side have the ball into Cole's head. I think they are quite likely to win the CL, not because they are the best team, but because luck is going their way (unnoticed foul with Barca, deflections against BM). I remmeber posting much the same about them in the PL some months ago
Dormouse
April 13, 2005
The thing is AG, that Fergiescum's poodle gave this diatribe to MUTV not to the players. We don't know what he said, or did not say, to the players, just as we don't know what our players said to each other. What we do know is that a different team selection would probably have produced a different result, Old Rednose has been criticised, and his faithful mutt is yapping in his defence. PS - I don't think that Chelski are unique in the way you describe, I think you'll remember that Ridsdale was the most important person at Leeds, Hayward at Wolves, Bates at Chelsea, Mandaric at Pompey, Deadly Doug at Villa etc, etc.
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
If Juve does the business, they'll have to sort out their away form in England right away. If the Reds can put 2 past them in 10 minutes with their main strikers injured, I hate to think what Chelsea will do. Chelsea have great shape and team defense and chemistry. It will be a lie to say they don't but its still bought. They spent hundreds of millions of pounds to get the right mix of players. They wrote off Mutu, Crespo, Geremi, Parker, Veron and a few others to get that mix, which would have crippled any other club in the world. Eventually, if you spend enough, ANYONE can get the right mix of players. There is no trial and error or risk of having to live with a mistake. You simply keep buying till you get it right and money is no object. Do you need to be a great footbal genius to do that? Given limitless funds, litterally, any one on this forum could do it. However, I don't think they can rest on their laurels. All great sides have to tweak it year to year and Chelsea will have to do that and hope the tweaking helps and doesn't hurt.
kiwipete
April 13, 2005
But Rich what if the said communications are concealed in their underwear will you be asking for all Chelsea affiliates to drop their tweeds?
Mee
April 13, 2005
I have been posting for some time now that Chelsea represent are a real threat to all teams in Europe. Tonights game was another demonstration that they are far more than just a collection of lucky deflections and poor refereeing decisions. The result was never seriously in doubt, the two late consolation BM goals the result of poor concentration when the game had already been won. At every stage of the competition we have consoled ourselves by thinking that teams with a proven European pedigree will stop them. Surely they can’t live with Barca, Bayern with their more aggresive game and the individual brilliance of Ballack will put an end to it. And now we look hopefully to Juventus (assuming they can overcome Liverpool) for salvation, and beyond them AC Milan, who are invincible - aren’t they? We’re running out of teams to do the business for us. We have mocked Chelsea’s lack of domestic success for fifty years, in a few weeks they might achieve something, that for all our glorious history, has been beyond us. Bayern were made to look ordinary tonight, although in mitigation Rod Schweinsteiger looked good, Sagnol never gave up and Ballack, despite an appaling miss, showed glimpses of the exceptional player he is - wonder if he fancies living in Islington?
GunGun
April 13, 2005
Cannon Balls, try not to choke on your own green bile tonight.
old man of hoy
April 13, 2005
Until the final few silly minutes that was a very mature European Cup performance by Chelsea. Can't help being a little envious of their organisation and know-how. Joe Cole was first class as were Makelele and Drogba. For much of the time up front Bayern looked one dimensional and static but as soon as the Peruvian strikers were put together they began to play. Drogba's goal was good but a terrible one to lose from a defensive viewpoint. How Ballack must be rueing that first half miss - if that had gone in who knows how things might have turned out. By rights Inter's fans behaviour should result in a ban from European competition - will it happen - yes like a black Pope.
kiwipete
April 13, 2005
Quite correct Decaf your analogy explains how the diminutive Niall deals to the hulking Bernard and Daz repelled the bullying Steve Martin behind the East Stand Block C Row 38... also does your Kaka rendition come from "Once Were Warriors." Now Cannon...is this your usual "red mist" when anything has a connection to your hero the Knighted Jock... Hughes comments however inflammatory are spot on Klinsmann led the charge and the antics some of our "foreigners" Lauren,Vieira,Ljungberg,Pires,Edu,Cole [ of course not foreign ] in going down like pole axed steers at the slightest touch is bloody embarrassing. Quick non Arsenal tip for anyone experiencing marital problems... get a job for a few months in some remote mine/refinery in outback Australia where the majority are drunken dolts with half a brain and voila on your return the wife will seem like Mother Teressa on aphrodisiacs.
Rich
April 13, 2005
We all knew Chelski were through after they got their routine deflected goal, was nice for Bayern to win the tie in the end and prove, as only ourselves, Bolton and Barca have this season, that their defence is not all it's cracked up to be. I think Bayern created a lot of chances and if a bit of luck went their way tonight (deflected goal,hit bar,1 cleared off line) they could be the ones going through. I really will be praying for a Juve win tommorrow, i dont mind so much the scousers going through, but I think Juve have a better chance of knocking Chelski out. I am really looking forward to Arsenal playing them now, they seem to be struggling for players at the back. Mourinho doesn't trust Johnson so he played Huth at RB (4 CB across back 4), it left very little attacking threat from full-back and a lack of mobility. Can't wait for Henry/Pires/Cole to terorise Chelski's right-hand side. Noticed the commentator (Tyldsely?) managed to get his 'that famous night in Barcelona' reference in again in a Champions league match!
Cech
April 13, 2005
But not as good as me!
Oliver kahn
April 13, 2005
i'm better than Lehmann
AmericanGooner
Keane@ManYoo
April 13, 2005
Sorry, don't have the link. Posted this from another site. I wanted someone on the team to have said this to the other players during our slip. ------ Roy Keane has launched an astonishing outburst at his Manchester United team-mates, claiming there are some who are failing to give 100% to the Red Devils cause.
The furious United skipper was forced to watch Saturday's disaster at Norwich unfold on TV after being left out of Sir Alex Ferguson's squad in order to ensure his availability for this weekend's FA Cup semi-final with Newcastle.
Ferguson has still to offer a public opinion on the Carrow Road debacle, having been left so angry at the 2-0 defeat he even refused all post-match interview requests.
But Keane, who last season highlighted a lack of professionalism among the younger members of United's squad, has decided it is time to speak out.
And, in a withering condemnation of their attitude, he placed serious question marks over players routinely earning over £50 000-a-week.
"People are sick of excuses now," he told MUTV. "We are running out of them anyway. Results don't lie and the table doesn't lie. Our performance levels have not been good enough.
"Everyone at this club needs to look at themselves and ask whether they are giving 100% to the football club. I am not sure all the players can say they are. That is a crime in itself."
Ferguson raised his first concerns over United's poor form immediately after the 1-0 win over Fulham on March 19, complaining bitterly about a lack of effectiveness in front of goal.
Those words appeared to fall on deaf ears for two weeks later, the Red Devils were held to a goalless draw by Blackburn at Old Trafford which effectively killed off any lingering title hopes.
The disappointment at that setback was nothing compared to last weekend's shambles, which, following a second successive early European exit and the prospect of two third-place finishes on the trot, left fans to openly question the club's short-term future.
However, as he continued his tirade, Keane was adamant Ferguson is not the one who should take the blame.
"How many chances should a player get? You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. The manager provides everything for the players. Everything they want, they get. All they have to do is come into training every single day with the attitude of trying to help the team improve.
"It is not about individuals. You can have the most talented players in the world but if you do not play as a team, I guarantee you will win absolutely nothing."
For a man who, like his manager, embodies the epitome of fighting spirit and a burning will to win, the mere thought some of his team-mates do not share the same attitude will bring a bitter taste to the mouth.
One of the most handsomely rewarded of today's well-paid stars, Keane has always accepted the sense of responsibility that comes with the vast pay cheque, something he clearly does not believe is a feeling that spreads across the Old Trafford dressing room.
"Every player should be fighting for their place at this club," he said. "Going back over the years, when we have been at the top of our game, players never took their places in the team or position at the club for granted. That is what made them really good players and what made us an outstanding team.
"It is all right having a laugh in the dressing room but maybe there has been too much laughter. You can go too far the other way. What matters is what happens on the pitch. We have talented players at this club, that is obvious, but talent without work rate and pride is a waste of time."
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
In every big club the most important person for continued success is either a player and/or the gaffer. (Henry & Wenger for us; Gerrard for Liverpool; Keane at Man Yoo perhaps, etc.) If that person goes, they will have to replace him (them). What makes Chelsea different and unique is that the most important person to their success is their owner. He's far, far more important that Lampard, Mourinho, Terry or Kenyon. All future success is tied to him. If one of our board members/owners leaves, the club carries on almost without missing a step, if he sells his shares to a likeminded replacement. 2 things will happen. I am sure of it. Roman will have a bad season and Roman's money will leave them sooner or later...and if its later, it won't be as far off. We'll back with a vengence next season as we did in '03. Mourinho will be looking for excuses and neutrals and even rivals will see how important Arsenal is to English football.
The Zeitgeist
April 13, 2005
seems to be with Chelsea at the moment. Yet another dodgy deflected goal. The defence is ok, though Bayern, with some better finishing, might have scored one or two. When we put two past them earlier this season i hoped that might be an example to others, i.e. they're not unbeatable, but alas no. England started with 3 CL teams and now have 4. That won't change unless the money situation changes. It's much more likely that Germany will lose a place. 1-1, nice. http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200405/story/0,15008,1457524,00.html
Juliano
April 13, 2005
Just how many bloody deflected shots have Chelsea scored this season, for jesus' sake? This is unbelievable!
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Phil, I dispute that Chelsea's domination is good for anyone other than Chelsea. Firstly, its one thing Arsenal walking league title (like last season). Even the most hard-bitten Manure fan knows what a magnificant SPORTING achievement that was, against the odds. Chelsea winning it by mile says "it can be bought", and if they carry on, people will soon get very bored of it. Secondly, I'm not sure that being firmly second best in any country is a springboard for Euro success. That is a debatebale one. Thirdly, although there are some unimportant exceptions (eg Blackburn), one can stretch a point and argue that success in English football has been based on sporting prowess. Manure, Arsenal, and Liverpool EARNED it, and there is always the sense that there is a fine line between success and mid-table mediocrity. Who knows where Manure will go after Ferguscum? With Chelsea, on the other hand, the whole thing is artificial. I can understand a man visiting a brothel if they can't get E*Ged, but it ain't the same when you pay (or so I have been told) and you are likely to get more than you bargained for. That's Chelsea, brothel, viagra, STDs, Russian pimps, the works. BOUGHT, and its stinking the place out. Finally, some idiot (no, some other idiot) suggested the other day that we had a unfair financial advantage ("like Chelsea") because of our profits on Anelka and co. What a twittish argument.
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
Phil (and others) I've often heard that the international bodies like FIFA and UEFA (and even the FA) are motivated in part by money. If that is so, then wouldn't UEFA be shooting itself in its financial foot if they reduce England to 3 clubs in the CL? The world over, English football is the most watched league. Asia, America, South America its followed very closely, Africa and the middle east as well. Even if English clubs don't do well, won't they still be accomodated?
Rich
April 13, 2005
Anyone notice that Chelski are going to play with 4 centre-backs tonight? wonder if that fitness coach will have his wooly hat on again and if his ear is continuously itchy again? It makes a joke of Mourinho's ban if one of the officials cannot just go up to the bloke and say "lets see what's under that, mate" Also, agree with all of you that want Chelsea and Man U to lose at every occasion, whatever competitions. To carry on the theme my despised clubs are 1.Man U 2. Chelski 3. Spuds 4th onwards can change depending on who's just kicked us off the park, so 4 would be Bolton. It seems the teams that people 'don't mind' are the teams we beat all the time, it's maybe why up until abrahmovic chelski probably wouldn't have been in my top 6/7 most hated team. Come on Bayern
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Forget the league, Juliano. What is of utmost importance now is that Chelsea don't win the CL. Even if going out tonight meant that our league hope were completely gone, I would still take it. Any other thinking is way too Machaevellian. Chelsea as English champions I have learned to live with, but Chelsea as European Champs is insupportable. **** Bernard, I concede (and 6 inches or so less width might make all the difference, and will probably be the final nail in our forlorn European hopes). I just though I ought to disagree with you on something as a matter of form.
Phil
April 13, 2005
EEG and Mee, you are pretty short-sighted in your not wanting PL rivals to succeed. As you know long-term the Arsenal will benefit if other PL sides are good in Europe. Supposing England lose that 3rd or 4th CL spot one day. Then you could all be whining that Arsenal are not in the CL. So, even if you hate it, success for English clubs is long-term good for our club. Dave is right in his observations. Nobody or shall we say 98% of the Germans are for bayern tonight as it is good for Germany should they win. All this sectarian rivalry taken into Europe is ridiculous. I think American Gooner has the most healthy stance as he is writing from a distance. Unthinkable twaddle that many Germans are not for Bayern.
AmericanGooner
April 13, 2005
I'm cheering for BM. With very few exceptions (like Chelsea Charlie here on this forum), the Chelsea support has shown every indication they will be as bad or worse than the arrogant ManYoo fans I first saw when I became a football fan. I am cheering for Newcastle to do well. I wanted 'Boro to advance in the UEFA cup and I wouldn't even begrudge the scousers a CL semi or final, but Man Yoo and Chelsea is where I have to draw the line. **** Totti is too moody. We need players with a little more sterner stuff. **** 8 games left, not 10. (6 in the league, 2 in the FA cup if there are no replays). I think I said 10 yesterday. **** Jimmy..haha..sorry to disappoint you but I'm not that desperate to have a question answered. I have some pride. Anyway, usukgooner has posted before. I feel honored by you. Almost every post you've ever made is about me. Email me at soi_eight@yahoo.com and I can send an autographed pic. I may start a fan club. ;-)
Mee
April 13, 2005
East End: We seem to have similar teams in the ‘don’t mind’ column. The point about Spurs, apart from the obvious geographical one, is that at some point it will happen for them. It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that they could get the 4th CL spot this term. I say this because Everton & Liverpool seem to be falling over themselves to drop points. I don’t think Bolton will get the 4th spot. look at the table, 3pts for a win - I’m getting paranoid about it! The two matches which have given me the greatest pleasure over the past couple of seasons were Newcastle’s win over Spurs in the cup this year - and Man City scoring 4 second half goals in last years competition at White Hart Lane. I also remember Saints beating them convincingly in the cup.
I’m afraid Chelsea and Man U don’t register so highly on my spurs ‘richter’ scale. Unfortunately I can remember the 60 -61, John White, Cliff Jones, Bobby Smith, Dyson side. 45 years have done little to lessen the pain.
East End Gooner
April 13, 2005
Mee - sounds right to me. I dont understand how any proper fan can want anything but failure for their domestic rivals. Slightly different if you live abroad but I just cant understand anyone who thinks they are a fan and yet would want Chelsea to prosper. My preferred losers are slightly different than yours - 1. Chelsea 2. United 3. Spurs (though I am sure this would be different had they any success at all) 4. Bolton 5. The rest. Premiership clubs I have a slight regard for are Palace, Man City, Villa, Charlton. The rest can **** off. Obviously its a question of degree. I dont mind Newcastle winning the Eurovision and Even found myself pleasantly distracted by Liverpool's win last week. But then they are both **** really and aren't rivals.
Mee
April 13, 2005
Am I alone in wishing the worst possible result for ANY English team in Europe. I hope Bayern win tonight but expect Chelsea to score at least one. On a domestic level the teams I enjoy losing in order of preference are:
1 Spurs 2 Chelsea 3 Man U 4 Liverpool 5 Bolton
I have a sneaking regard for (no particular reason) Palace, Charlton, Man City, Norwich and Plymouth Argyle.
Bernard
April 13, 2005
Phil, nothing to tell that hasn't been told many times before.
coldiz
April 13, 2005
maybe hate is too stronger word,err no thats correct.I love watching teams in europe that are no threat to us.Nowich a while back with Jeremy Goss.Newcastle two years ago in Italy,the who southern curve full of beer bellied baldies.Laugh,I laughed mayself dead,but it was compulsive viewing.I´ve a soft spot for Auxerreand Lyon.
steve martin
April 13, 2005
Juliano, why have terry and Lampard banned, they would only miss the semi final and be rested for the league games, pointless, a little more though me thinks... Let them play and get injured and miss the rest of the season, I'll be looking for some serious tackling from the Ethal Mermans tonight...
Phil
April 13, 2005
It is amazing how Bernard automatically jumps to the defence of the Germans as soon as they are mentioned. It is weird. I just wonder what the real reason is. Come out of the closet and tell us, Bernard.
Steve C/O Coldiz
April 13, 2005
both right,both wrong.I´m in Germany at the mo and most football fans I know,who are die hard travelling fans,Bochum,Dusselforf,Herta,want Bayern to LOSE-no doubt.The occasional fan,(armchair TV,maybe visist a staduim with a birthday present voucher)want Bayern to win,I´d say this is about 9O percent of the poulation here who have a passing,keen(but not fanatical)intrest.I´m working with a couple of brits over here-Leeds,Utd and they can´t understand why I do´nt want Chelsea to win.They do´nt agre to the argument that if they win the CL they become an even greater threat to Arsenal.But ther´yre English ,they cry,yes but I´m Arsenal first and anything that in any way increases other teams prestige over us ,then I´m against.
I´dont want liverpool to win either.
In the final of 99 I wanted Bayern and untill the last 5 minutes I was enjoying it with about 2O guys,well leathered.Then the German commentator said,and as usual the briitish teams do´nt deliver.I was a Man utd support instantly for the next 8 minutes,my friends could´nt understand it.The next day I hated utd as much as always.I hardly care about England,I cheer when they score but if someone offered me a ticket for our reserve side or an En gerland international......no contest.Come onMunich,i hate you just as bad as Chelsea.I hope AC win it.They are technicall great and efficent,although Wiltord deserves a cheer.
Juliano
April 13, 2005
Bayern or Chelsea to win... this is tricky. I'd normally wish Chelsea to lose, but then I don't know what would be better for us. If they lose, it may well dent their confidence since they probably consider the league as all but wrapped up and therefore they have probably been focusing on the champions league for a while. But on the other hand, they'll only have the league to play, and will be very eager not to let it slip. If they win a really tough tie (in a dream world, 2-4 Bayern, Chelsea win 18-19 on pens with two reds for Lampard and Terry) it will keep them mainly focused on the Champions League, and they'd be more likely to drop points in the PL, though the victory could give them a confidence boost. Players have often mentioned how the CL is energy consuming, and when they have tasted it they just can't get enough. For example, Ferguson's CL obsession is widely regarded amongst their fans as the reason for MU's slow downfall in the league. I won't shed any tear if Chelsea get trounced tonight, but if they go through the fear that they may win it will be balanced with the hope that it will distract them big time, and also with the hope of them being on the wrong end of an absolute slaughter from AC Milan.
Bernard
April 13, 2005
JamesLT, rest assured that the Germans who want Chelsea to win tonight will be balanced by loads of English people who want Bayern to win - and I'm very much one of them.
Brazil 70
April 13, 2005
The post from Rupen was not made to this site. I read it on another Arsenal page & it has obviously been cut & pasted to this site so he will not be answering any questions.
JameslT
April 13, 2005
BERNARD you're right to point out DAVE's usual anti-German rubbish. I'm writing this in a German office building in Munich, where I know that at least half the people will have a big smile on their face tomorrow if Chelsea stuff Bayern 5-0 tonight. Myself, I'm hoping for a 5-0 Bayern win... The fact is that Bayern are the ManUre of Germany and huge numbers of Germans despise "FC Hollywood" as they derisively call them and the evil empire, as they see it, led by Franz Beckenbauer, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Uli Hoeness from the Olympiastadion...
Bernard
April 13, 2005
Decaf, I just don't see it myself. The difference between the grass area and pitch size might be a little bigger at Ashburton Grove than at Highbury, so it strikes me as a perfectly reasonable statement to make. It might well be, and perhaps it's more grossly unscientific to ignore that possibility when calculating the possible size of the pitch.
Decaf
April 13, 2005
In fact, Mee, if you don't stop it I am going to leave, and join CG and Daz in their sulk, and I certainly won't return until tomorrow.
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Yes Mee, you are bringing down the high tone a bit.
Mee
April 13, 2005
Surely with all these calculations you have to take into account that the ball will travel slightly further as well, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the extra yardage is all attributable to the player. This doesn’t mean the acceptance of long-ball Bolton style tactics, merely a five yard ball instead of a four yard (insert metres here) ball. Am I talking absolute bollocks here?
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Juliano, you have developed the irritating habit of failing to close your parentheses (Or should that be "failing to open"?). Correct it please. There also seem to be colons creeping into your posts in a manner that some might find offensive. Must cease.
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Bernard, you stated: "the difference between the grass area and pitch size might be a little bigger at Ashburton Grove than at Highbury". That strikes me as grossly unscientific, and yes, a quibble.
Decaf
April 13, 2005
E*G! I had it all worked out conceptually (including a spillover effect on away games), but a student (pretty and female too) walked in and started talking to me about some sort of New Zealand parrot. The name eludes me. In any case, its all gone now.
Juliano
April 13, 2005
Decaf-I'd say that the goals conceded/scored versus pitch size isn't a linear ratio, rather a logarithmic one. Could you correct your figures please? :)
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Hold it. This season we have scored 43 goals and concede 18 at Highbury. At AB, we should, logically score and concede 17.5% fewer, owing to the larger pitch and the extra time it takes to get up and down. This mean we can expect (rounding liberally) to score EIGHT and concede THREE fewer goals. A goal difference 5 worse. This is 20% worse than last season. 20% fewer home points is a loss of seven points. So I think I jumped the gun a bit predicting relegation.
Juliano
April 13, 2005
Decaf-And by the way, relegation will have to wait since Arsenal will still be playing at Highbury next season :)
Bernard
April 13, 2005
So Decaf, what was this ridiculous quibble then?
Juliano
April 13, 2005
Decaf-The average player certainly doesn't run an average speed of 15kms/h for 90minutes, it would make him run more than 22kms. (I am well placed to know that, my goal is to run a half marathon on april the 24th in less than 1h24, which equates to 15km/h) I think a midfield player runs between 7 and 8 kms during a game, but without joking, it would certainly be a bit more on a big pitch, and if it doesn't mean much for the odd game it may have a sensible influence if you're having to play 25 games on that pitch. I certainly expect Arsène to study this closely anyway.
Bernard
April 13, 2005
dave, that's simply untrue. I have seen various reports by people who watched the 1999 European final in Spanish bars where there were lots of German and English holiday makers that aside from the fans of each club, the Germans all wanted Man Utd to win, and the English all wanted Bayern Munich to win.
Decaf
April 13, 2005
Dave, I find that totally unbelievable. EVERY German? Surely fans of other clubs must hate Bayern? German, yes. But inhuman? Surely not.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
Juliano, using your calculations (and trusting you made no silly mistakes) and leaving Bernard's ridiculous quibbles on one side, the Ashburton pitch would be 17.6% larger than the Highbury one. If the median player now runs at an average of 15 km per hour for the average game of 93 minutes, he would have to speed up to 17.64 km per hour. If he does not adjust his speed, the results are alarming. He could run up and down the Ashburton pitch mere 213 times, compared to 230 times at Highbury. I predict relegation next year.
dave
April 12, 2005
Let me tell you what the difference is between the Brits and the Germans: tonight ALL Germans, Bayern fans or not will be behind Bayern. Never ever have I met Germans who were against a German side when up against a foreign side. The Fatherland first. With us its different. I don`t know what is worse.
I can tell you that if you live abroad the rivalry and jibes, hate and scorn between Brits and Krauts is as fierce as between Arsenal and Spuds/Chelsea. So, allow the Brits who live abroad to be for the English team otherwise we will have to put up with just as much shit as you guys in the office tomorrow.
Myles Palmer
April 12, 2005
YOU can't compare Bayern-Arsenal to Bayern-Chelsea because Arsenal was a first leg and this is a second leg.
The first game started at 0-0 and this once starts 2-4.
No Chelsea player - even Carvalho on his worst night - will head an 80-yard Kahn clearance to Pizarro, as Toure did after three minutes
Pizarro and Makaay are playing.
And so is Demichelis, the Argentinian assassin who missed the first leg
Tonight will be interesting because Bayern have four hatchet-men in midfield : pick four from Salihamidzic, Ballack, Frings, Demichelis, and Ze Roberto.
Ze Roberto was a zippy, swerving ball artiste at Leverkusen but he really puts his foot in these days.And his knee, his thigh, his hip and anything else that's available.
He kicked Vieira and he kicked Lauren and he will kick Duff and Cole and Lampard
I CAN'T SEE CHELSEA NOT SCORING, so I can't see them not going through.
And Chelsea might score first.
They might score early, as Bayern did against Arsenal.They might Bayern Bayern.
Oliver Kahn says : We can concentrate and sfcore a goal in each half.We won't be outmuscled again.
WE SHALL SEE - IT WILL BE DRAMATIC.
Anything could happen.
But my gut feeling is that the worst Chelsea will do is lose 2-1.
A FRIEND was in Italy last weekend and said some senior Italian journalists reckon Chelsea can beat everyone in the Champions League except Milan.
He reckons the whole world is now looking at Chelski because we have never seen anybody throw so much money at a football club before, so its soap opera, just as that Maderid's assembly of galacticos was.
What Perez did was was crude and vulgar and this is crude and vulgar too.
But,for as global audience, it's compelling.
DID YOU KNOW that Mourinho doesn't give a team talk these days?
He prepares the players, tells them what to expect, shows them videos of their direct opponent.
But in the last month he has not given a team talk in the dressing room.
He chooses a different player -Joe Cole, Gudjohnsen, Lampard, Terrry so far- to give the team talk just before the game.
CHELSKI has a savage momentum now and this episode is a bizarre moment in football history.
Abramovich is a very clever, ruthless guy who has created a western identity and has immunity from prosecution while Putin is President.
Orphaned at the age of four, the billionaire with the sad little smile takes a helicopter from his Sussex estate to the Battersea helipad and goes by armoured limousine to Stamford Bridge.
The limo isn't just bulletproof, it's bombproof.
He is in a pod which can't be shattered by a bomb underneath the car.
Last week on TV I saw him walking into the ground.
He was wearing jeans and flanked by a diamond of suited Russian-faced bodyguards in suits.
The choreography was incredible.
A modern emperor in a protected moving space with a small phalanx around him.
At the Bridge they say he's had a tunnel built, so he can vanish if his life is threatened.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
Well, I rounded the figures but the pitch dimensions were a little bit bigger keeping the same margin (4m in length, 3m in width) as Highbury. If I make a ratio between grass size/pitch size at Highbury, and apply it to Ashburton, it makes about the same dimensions. 119x80 yards. That said, even at 117x78 it would still be the biggest pitch in the Premier League, it would even be bigger than the Camp Nou's (105x68m, 115x74yds) Given Wenger's liking for a scientific approach, I guess he has been weighing the pros and cons of having a big pitch, in order to set the ideal pitch size. A big pitch would suit our squad more, but what would be the side effect of having to play half your games on a bigger pitch than your opponents? How would it translate in terms of miles ran per game for players, and so on?
david.d
April 12, 2005
mee i couldnt agree more with you that our semi final is not a foregone conclusion. i must admit i did a jig of delight when we drew blackburn but semi finals are traditionally tight affairs and form usually goes out of the window as we ourselves have discovered in recent years scraping past middlesbrough and sheff utd. it will not be an easy ride but the boys know what sort of tactics blackburn will be employing and i believe we will happily mix it with them for the right to play our football and hopefully win the game. im getting nervous already and cant even comtemplate defeat. we should take nothing for granted and treat blackburn with respect......before knocking them out!!!(i sincerely hope)
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Juliano, I guess it's possible that the difference between the grass area and pitch size might be a little bigger at Ashburton Grove than at Highbury, but I'm sure that I did see what the actual pitch size there will be, rather than the grass area. I can't remember where I saw it now, I had a look at McAlpines web site as I thought it might have been there, but couldn't find it.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
Well, that was easy. Highbury's pitch dimensions are shown on a picture of the official site, > the Club > Highbury and in the bottom of the page "Highbury Plan". The dimensions of the grass at the Emirates are also on the offal in the Emirates Stadium > Key facts section. I just had to google to find the yards/meters conversion rate (0,9144) and to make out the difference between grass size and pitch size. Did I mention that I have a really passionating job?
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Juliano, that's impressive research. I remember seeing the pitch size stated somewhere before, and I also seem to recall it being the biggest club pitch in the country. When you looked at that bloke's post, as me and others have said, it was just crammed full with inaccuracies and worst-case scenario guesswork. And then he immediately declares himself to be a Liverpool fan who can't get a season ticket at Anfield. Who cares if he can or not; I certainly don't.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
While I'm at it with Ashburton Grove, I just checked the webcam and I could distincly see the two tripods, of each part of the south stand, that will receive the remaining halves of the primary trusses of the roof structure. The west tripod is clearly there, the east one looks to be there but as it's behind the truss that is already in place, I cannot be certain. But we probably can expect the other halves to be lifted pretty soon.
Mee
April 12, 2005
Juliano: Couldn’t agree more about the size of the pitch. I’m sure Henry would be even more effective on a larger playing surface.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
After our recent new friend's assertion that the pitch will still be small at Ashburton, here are the facts. The pitch size at Highbury is 110x73 yards, or 101x67 meters. On the "Key Facts" section of the Ashburton page on Arsenal.com, they say that the grass size will be 113x76 meters at Ashburton, as opposed to the current 105x70 meters at Higbury. Now, the conversion from yards to meters shows that Highbury's pitch size is 101x67 meters, which leaves 4 meters in length and 3 in width, compared to the grass size. If the same margins are kept, the pitch size at Ashburton will be of 109x73 meters, or 119x80 yards. This compares favourably with the City Of Manchester Stadium (116.5x78), Old Trafford (116x76) Saint James Park (110x73) or Anfield Road (110x75). In fact, it would be the biggest pitch of the league. To claim that it has helped us is plain wrong, I even think it has been a real drawback given the pace and the athleticism in the current Arsenal squad.
Bored
April 12, 2005
Rupen: Why lie about the size of the pich at Ashburton Grove? Why lie about Chelsea's support? 10 years ago chelsea had an average attendance around the 20,000?
Mee
April 12, 2005
There is a dangerous acceptance by some on this forum that the semi-final is a foregone conclusion. At the time of the draw it seemed like the best option but since then Blackburn have galvanised themselves while Newcastle have lost some form, and more vitally, players. I expect the Norwich game looked an easy one on paper for Ferguson too. We’ll have to be at our best to beat them although paradoxically Hughes’ latest outbursts have resulted in some quarters as us being considered as underdogs.
Bored
April 12, 2005
This Fergie lie about Arsenal 'forcing' the FA to hold the semi's at Cardiff is so hilarious and desperate I almost feel sorry for the bloke. Almost being the operative word.
Gunfire
April 12, 2005
Well Mark or Sparky if you prefer you should look to your fellow British players Savage, Owen, Shearer, Rooney etc before maintaining that "foreigners" are at fault.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Kaka, after reading that, I can only assume that you are one of Decaf's students?
Kaka
April 12, 2005
"Ere any sign of dawn is noted the brown parrot is awake and awaiting it, its harsh cry rings out, and the sojourners within the realm of Tane say: Kua tangi to kaka (the kaka has cried), and know that Hine-ata, the Morning Maid, is at hand."
goonerguru
April 12, 2005
Thanks Bernard,as you say claptrap,you know my views on SWP but if he does arrive in the summer and he banged in some belting performances I guess I would have to say I'm wrong,my feeling is that Wenger wont be paying £12 mil+ so he won't be coming.
Cannon Balls
April 12, 2005
The so called CL is a KO competition in which the vagaries of the draw play a significant part, ask Ferguson about it!. So who was the last team to dominate this tournament then having progressed year after year?.And having re-read Rupens post again i have concluded that it is a nonsense full of hypothetical scenarios and untrue statements.
Fred
April 12, 2005
Essien! Sorry don't rate him I say he is in the class of Gravesen/Boateng. Essien's big and strong and all that but not a classy player like our Pat. I can think of many players I would prefer on current from, Gattuso being just one of them. Javier Mascherano is the central midfield player I would like! I've seen him control a midfield when river plate had nine men on the pitch or Davids/Seedorf because they have had a positive effect on every team they have joined since Ajax. I think Davids is Tottenham bound though.
steve martin
April 12, 2005
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=269511&CPID=8&CLID=25&lid=&title=More+Gunners+gloom+for+Mac&channel=Premiership
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Rupen, I've just noticed something else you said: "Chelsea are way ahead on this one too. The vocal support of the fans during the match- that didn't take Roman's billions to achieve. Chelsea's supporters have lived through generations of not winning much, if anything at all, yet their support and encouragement has been one to be proud of, even when the famous Shed was brought down. The Headhunters may have grown old and moved on, but the fanatical supoport most certainly hasn't." You really must be having a laugh, have you seen some of their attendance figures over the past, and didn't you know that even this season I've seen reports that they've often failed to sell out their ticket allocation for away games?
Cannon Balls
April 12, 2005
Rupen,before you put away your crystal ball can you tell us the results of tonights matches and the Semis at the weekend??? so that we can have an idea of how reliable your predictions are!!!.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
Sounds like an interesting chap.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Rupen, you clearly have no idea of what you're talking about. Arsenal have confirmed many times, as have the corporation building the thing (McAlpines), that the pitch will be significantly bigger at Ashburton Grove. goonerguru, I've coped the post for you. I've since had a chat with Gaz about it and he phoned the club to ask if they ran a stadium tour last Saturday (9 April), and they didn't. So it's presumably a load of claptrap. Anyway, here it is. "Whilst on a stadium tour on 9/4/05 we were herded out of the directors box into the press room because someone was coming out of the boardroom that we were not allowed to see. When we were let out and escorted down to pitch level we were made to sit down so we couldn't see up into the directors box.I managed to look up into the directors box before being ushered away and up there was Ian Wright with Shaun Wright-Phillips. (summer signing)?????"
Decaf
April 12, 2005
"for every one season Arsenal progress in the Champions league, their counterparts in Europe progress what seems like 2 or 3 years in comparison". What???
Rupen Ganatra
April 12, 2005
lives & works in London. He has an undying passion for Liverpool Football Club and feels he may not live to see England win a major football tournament! Rupen is still waiting for his season ticket at Anfield, and feels (the way things are going) he may not get hold of one, unless Liverpool move to a new stadium, which he isn’t overly keen on either!
Rupen Ganatra
April 12, 2005
Earlier this season, Arsenal really set themselves up for a fall after that long run of unbeaten games. You would have thought a squad like that would be ready and fully able to handle a minor blip mentally and physically, but it appears that they have crumbled, considering their usual form.
Arsene Wenger has also admitted that Arsenal may never win the European Cup, what else would players think of their Manager effectively giving up like that? If that was a mind game, it may be a potentially fatal one. In recent season in Arsenal's European adventures, it has become apparent that for every one season Arsenal progress in the Champions league, their counterparts in Europe progress what seems like 2 or 3 years in comparison, so Arsenal always appear to be fighting a losing battle.
Now Wenger has the problem of one of his best players being tapped up (who knows who else has been tapped up?) and you can only imagine what the likes of ambitious players like Vieira, Henry, Ljungberg & Pires will be thinking. Sure, Henry wants to break Ian Wright's record, and the best of luck to him, but even when that's acomplished, he will still have a good few years in him to explore more exotic options. The invincibles aren't quite invincible and the term 'Legends' is used far too loosely these days. Is the European Cup really going to happen for each of these players if they choose to remain at Arsenal? Surely players of this calibre would like to test their skill in La Liga or Serie A, one would think.
I fear Arsenal will lose a few vital players which will be detrimental to their progress in the domestic league next season at least. Wenger may well go and splash out in the transfer market during the close season, but who is out there that isn't Chelsea bound? Unless Arsene uncovers some more young gems like Thierry Henry - but then how many years will they take to come to fruition?
A brand spanking new stadium is something the club and the fans will be looking forward to. It may be big and new, but the pitch will have to remain the minimum regulation matchbox sized one, as that is what Arsene & Arsenal are used to. Maybe the new ground might generate some encouraging noise and send on the 12th man every now and then and eventually lose the fanmous "Highbury the Library" tag. Chelsea are way ahead on this one too. The vocal support of the fans during the match- that didn't take Roman's billions to achieve. Chelsea's supporters have lived through generations of not winning much, if anything at all, yet their support and encouragement has been one to be proud of, even when the famous Shed was brought down. The Headhunters may have grown old and moved on, but the fanatical supoport most certainly hasn't. Arsenal can only wish they had some of what's happening round the Kings Road.
I'm not totally writing off Arsenal, as I'm sure they'll be thereabouts, but I feel they will only play a bit part in Chelsea's dominance, and that bit part may only involve taking a point off their London rivals on derby day.
Cannon Balls
April 12, 2005
The prize for the quote of the day must be Lou Macari's one commenting on Fergusons tacticsthat he employs Macari advises Feruson that: "If you want just to keep possession passing the ball sideways, and only score a few goals winning nothing, then go and join Tottenham!." Quite so too, the Spuds supporters lap that old fasioned stuff up down at the Lane That Time Forgot - and the drunken jock would not look out of place among the other football Dinosaurs and neanderthals that roam about there. I see also that Old Sparky Hughes ex Manure player is at it using tactics out of the 'gaffers' manual on 'How To Assist And Influence Referees When Your Playing Arsenal'. It's the usual stuff employed by the Lying Scotsmans pal 'Big Sam' before our games with Bolton. Old Sparky laments the passing of the 'British game: "The 'foreigners", says Old Sparky have (in Fergie-Speak, Arsenal ARE the foreigners) "Bought a lot of good things into our game", however he goes on in Fergiesque style: "There is now too much diving and play-acting going on." Hmm all sounds very familiar: "The referees have got to allow us to tackle", rants Hughes. Old Sparky promises us a big shock on Saturday; all though conceeding that his club will not be able to sell their 15000 allocation of tickets. And again parroting the drunken jocks: "It would have been better if the semi were held at Villa Park". Well, it would be for Manure, all of their supporters down South would not have to travel so far to watch it. "We are unfairly branded a physical side" moans Old Sparky. But he ominously warns that; "We will not change our usual style of play for this match". Ouch!!
goonerguru
April 12, 2005
Morning Bernard,have checked the rummour mill,can't find anything from Geoff Rufus I guess it was a story linking us to SWP,was it?
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 12, 2005
Decaf - of all the players in Europe I've seen this year, not as much as I've seen in years past, the one that stands out as a perfect fit for TH14 game is Kaka. He does not have TH14 blistering pace, not many do, but in all other areas I think he can match him and I'd love AW at least to enquire about his availability, you don't get if you don't ask!
Alex
April 12, 2005
All right, all right, I admit it, Essien does look real class. But 10M (at least), and he's stated his admiration for Fergy and Man U- oh dear! Also, Wenger dismissed out of hand the rumour in Jan, not leaving much room for doubt, maybe thats why Essien sent out a 'come get me' to fergy anyway? I hope he dosn't end up there for his own sake. He could well end up like another Kleberson. Fergy can only really deal with British thugs who are scared of him. He's also a Viera type player (not physique obviously), and I don't think he'll want to spend too much time on the bench. Also, another MF player (especially a young one) would put Flamini back way down the order, which seems unfair considering how well he has done. Landreau however is a neau neau. Definitly not world class. Let him go to Celtic.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
There is something in what you say, Kiwi. David must have been bigger than Goliath. He couldn't have won 'cos he was smaller, except by skullduggery (sneaky move with slingshot), and if he was able to get away with that without attracting the attentions of the referee, he must have been the bigger side anyway. By the same antipodean logic Chocolate must be correct when he argues that players must be good enough to play 'cos otherwise they wouldn't have been picked'.
Alex
April 12, 2005
Juliano- Thanks for the Mourad Meghni rumour, really sounds like a Wenger buy. I think Wenger was linked with him in 04 as well. Glad to see Cole making the right sort of noises at last, but he does seem to have let this 'best LB in the world' business go to his head. I don't think he should be demanding investment. He wouldn't be here if Wenger didn't give youth a proper chance. If he likes teams that 'throw money around', maybe he should go to Chelsea.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
Its worrying me too, Bernard. Hopefully you will disagee with the following musings about 'playmaker' types. It strikes me that apart from their obvious skill and vision, these guys all have blistering pace, or at least the ability to 'play' when they are going at full tilt. Kaka is not exactly sitting back in the centre circle playing 40 yarders. He's distinctly on his bike, and its is his short passing game and his knowing just when to release it that is so good. Judging from those clips that Gaz (???) posted, Totti also doesn't hang around. Bergy had awesome acceleration. I haven't seen a lot of Cesc, but does he come up to the standard on in terms of pace? Reyes I fear has a bit (I stress, a bit) of the Perry Groves devil in him. The one that generates an inverse relationship between the speed of the legs and the speed of the brain.
kiwipete in Kiwi
April 12, 2005
Exiled ...how can Dehlia Smith be bringing the game into disrepute regards "the decisions go for the bigger teams?"
Norwich beat ManU 2-0 so the latter couldn't have got many decisions obviously she sees Norwich as the bigger team. Fair comment.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
Aliadière has obviously graduated with extremely honourable mention from the Darren Anderton Fitness School. He was in the promotion next to Saha's.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Don't know if the story is true, but have a look at the rumour mill for a post by Geoff Rufus; unless someone has posted on it in the last five minutes, it is the most recent rumour on it. Could we be improving right midfield (though goonerguru might not want us to with this player).
Bernard
April 12, 2005
In Thierry Henry, in my view we currently have the best player in the world due to the way he presently plays in the team. Considering that, any idea of asking him to play a different type of games strikes me as utter lunacy, at least until he loses a bit of pace through age. Blimey, that means Decaf and me have agreed about two different things in the same day! Juliano summed it up perfectly as well, Henry gets many assists but they're generally different types of assists to Bergkamp's defence splitting passes. DaveM, Quincy's improvement over the last year has come through him not being in the first team much. I still think it could be costly to give him too much too soon, in terms of a regular first team place.
no way jose
April 12, 2005
While I don't watch many Serie A games I have always looked out for Totti in European and international games because of the hype around him. From what I have seen he is probably the most over-rated, petulant player in Europe. I wouldn't want him.
vinny
April 12, 2005
arsenal to get totti cause he is da man, but they shud get rid of gilberto n den buy totti
steve martin
April 12, 2005
Talking of playmakers like TH14, DB10 and RP7, it would seem to me, by the stats anyway, that Th14 is two players… So far this season he has scored 30 goals and 22 assists… of the 25 goals he has scored in the Prem 21 have been at home, yet most of his assists come away from Highbury… Perhaps his is the ultimate team player, bully at home, and helping the team out away, by making goals…
Rich
April 12, 2005
Good article about Senderos here...... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/football/articles/17866846?source=Evening%20Standard......explains the amount of clubs that were after him, basically said that pretty much everyone who is in the G14 wanted him!
Juliano
April 12, 2005
Replace DB10? I don't think Tezza would be a suitable replacement for Dennis, he doesn't have the same eye for a pass. I know he has many assists, but most of them are cuts back in the area after he has beaten his man, not the kind of defense splitting pass in the last third that we've been used to see from Dennis. And let's face it, Thierry has so much pace that it'd be a waste not to use it. I think Van Persie could be that man, he has outstanding ability to beat his man, and he can create space where there seemed to be none. He needs to keep his temper though. What surprises me most about this lad is that when I read his interviews he always sound like he knows his shortcomings, that he still has plenty of work to make, a very down to earth personality, yet when he's on the pitch he looks a red card in the making, very hot headed. Finally, there is someone I'd like us to sign, he is not known but came through the ranks at AS Cannes, and was supposed to be the next Zidane. He chose to sign for Bologna and he doesn't seem to get on very well with their coach, but I read on yahoo.it that he was supposed to be linked with Juventus and Real Madrid so he must have had some good games. His name is Mourad Meghni.
old man of hoy
April 12, 2005
A beautiful sunny day in London - i feel a Cup Final coming on though i think it will be a titanic struggle with Blackburn who are hitting form right now. Henry is already a playmaker - have you not noticed we have two when Dennis plays, and three if Bob is on the field? That my friends is why we score so many goals - creativity all over the place. Keep Dennis for one more year - i want to see him in that claret shirt. Off to work so i bid you a lovely day.
Abe is in a terrible state and goes to see Dr Myers, his psychiatrist.
"Doctor, I need your help in a big way. I feel very suicidal. What should I do?"
Doctor Myers replies, "You must pay me in advance."
SOLMAN
April 12, 2005
Decaf , let me explain , there is not a player in world football who we could afford who could replae DB so we need to rethink , we should buy a central out and out striker and let Henry drift (like he does already)
Alex
April 12, 2005
The other advantage of Wenger keeping faith with players, and having a stable 1st 11, is that players will come because they know they will be given a chance, and won't be droped after a poor run. Players appreciate that a lot. Decided that I havn't got a clue what Wenger will do in the summer, but it will be fascinating to see. I also have a got a very good feeling about the remainder of the season, and next season. Come on Arsenal!
Jimmy
April 12, 2005
usukgooner is none other but American Gooner setting up a question and then answering it. What a joker!
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
Why does the Guardian have a headline intimating that Cole threatens to leave when in the same interview Cole says he'd love to be captain one day? Cole would like it if we could buy big. So would Henry who said the same thing. The 4th estate, whatever!
AmericanGooner
2goalsOf73@setpieces
April 12, 2005
Don't have a link. I found this on another site. Very interesting-----In a season in which the Gunners have scored just two of their 73 league goals from a set-piece, it was noteworthy that two of their loanees, David Bentley and Jermaine Pennant, were the architects behind the costly set-piece goals conceded by Chelski and ManYoo this weekend.
Both offensively and defensively, set pieces are the glaring difference between the top three.
As well as being a regular avenue of success in Europe, approximately a quarter of Chelski’s Premiership goals have directly resulted from either a corner or free-kick. ManYoo’s record is barely superior to Arsenal’s though – just four from a total of 48.
Arsenal’s susceptibility to dead balls throughout the season has been well-documented (although there are definite signs that they are improving in this area), but an alarming proportion of the 17 goals conceded by ManYoo have occurred in the same manner. That one of the two goals scored by Arsenal from a dead ball happened against ManYoo - Patrick Vieira’s header from a corner in February - is suggestive.
That said, Chelski and, in particular their highly-regarded goalkeeper, may also have a relative weakness from dead balls. In a season in which he has barely made an error, Petr Cech has twice been caught short beneath a high cross (against Bolton in late November and likewise on Saturday). It’s an oddity considering his giant stature.
From a Highbury perspective, meanwhile, the loan system is proving to be a double-edged sword: on the one hand it provides much-need first-team experience; on the other it results in the loanees, their appetite for regular Premiership activity sated, being unwilling to return for another season on the bench and playing in front of deserted stadiums for the reserves.
"I'll speak to Arsenal and see what they have got to say, but maybe my future lies somewhere else,” said Bentley last week. "I don't want to be playing reserve team football anymore and I won't be playing reserve team football next year. I've moved on from that definitely. I'm not going to go back and just sit about next year."
Displaying a remarkable lack of gratitude and tact considering Birmingham’s loyalty to him whilst he was eating porridge, Pennant also issued a statement last week in which he said he would only consider joining Brum after first speaking to Arsenal about his future. With Arsene Wenger already publicly suggesting that Pennant should move, he’s likely to find it an ill-fated and ill-judged venture.
Bentley’s prospects, though, are significantly more advanced. Wenger spoke approvingly of the youngster recently and, reading between the lines, it appears that there are just 14 months before Robert Pires’ best-before date expires. Given the similarity in styles, and his considerable ability, Bentley has a realistic shout of being his successor.
But Arsene may need all his powers of persuasion if Bentley is to first return to Highbury and bide his time.
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
In a perfect world Ronaldinho or Kaka would be ideal after Bergkamp leaves. I think we'll find that Cesc will have taken over the Bergkamp role before all is said and done. He's only 17 but by 19 or 20, he'll be one of the world's best playmakers, if he has someone behind him to play sweeper. Bentley is the only other person we have on the books that is closest to what is suggested. **** I am strangely (to some) very optimistic about next season. Chelsea seems too strong and will go from strength to strength because of their billions, but I recall being in the similar position in the late '90s. Newcastle, Leeds, flattered but it Man Yoo seemed just as invincible. Their hold seemed more assured than Chelsea's, but then along came a man who many said 'Arsene who?'. We'll make a very strong challenge next season. No club, even leagues that have one club that seem to dominate all the time (Galatasarray, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich) can't keep it up all the time. I just can't see Chelsea repeating the same consistency, getting the same luck, lack of injuries to key players and referee decisions at the crucial times agian next season. Plus, the supposed cool and confident Mourinho is showing cracks in a great season. When things go a little 'pear shaped' as you all say, I don't see how he will respond well. Fergie and Wenger have proved their mettle when it hits the fan but Mourinho has been riding a gravy train. Plus, we will be a lot more serious next season, just like we did in the '04 season. The past 5 weeks, and if it continues into next season, will see the new Arsenal I think. Wenger has to address the defense. I think we'll see the 3 and 4 goal games but it won't be a 3-1 or 4-1 scoreline, if the likes of Senderos and Campbell are anchoring us. Throw in an Eboue who I think will emerge as our primary RB and we'll look more like '98. A combination of flair with a bit of steel from the previous years. We're quietly going on a run right now that the papers are overlooking. I have a feeling of the 10 games left in all competitions we'll win 8 at the very least and probably 9 and 1 draw but don't be surprised if we run the table of games left.
Dormouse
April 12, 2005
When Henry scores as many goals per game as he does, and still manages a lot of assists, the idea of trying to change his roles seems likely to make things worse. Someone to act as a Plan B is fine & maybe Henry could try a different role some of the time then, but he's the best striker we or anyone else has at the moment.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
I'm not sure that I understand the "Henry as Bergkamp's replacement" idea, at least not before he has lost a bit of pace. I know that he gets a lot of assists, but I just don't see him as a playmaker. I would say Henry is a good passer and a good reader of the game, and very good finisher and dead ball player. However, the attributes that make him world class are still his pace, power, flair, and close control at speed. Henry need to be supported, not the supporter.
gaz from Oz
April 12, 2005
I see on Soccernet that Alex Fergiescum has suggested that the FA Cup semi were at Cardiff because Arsenal wanted it there rather than Villa Park. The FA have denied this is the case. Time for someone from Arsenal to stir up the pot. I suggest we ask for an immediate apology. Failing an apology then we should ask the FA to take action against MU for unfounded lies against our club. The precedent has been set with Mourinho who made partially false allegations. Anything less than a 2 match touchline ban would not be appropriate given that the FA peronally intervened earlier about the relationship between Arsenal & MU. Of course Fergie is looking for cover as his aging team falter and the profits fall. As a manager he is last decades man. He may be looking for employment if they don't win the FA cup. By the way the surface at Villa appears to be of sub standard given the number of players who slipped on it on the week-end.
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
I read that after the Norwich Fergie didn't show up for his post game interview on MUTV for the first time in 7 years....hehehe...:-)
SOLMAN
April 12, 2005
Decaf - Henry should be DB replacement , we then need to replace Henry
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
When everyone is healthy our squad is very formidable. Remember after the '03 season in the summer, they said we'll be hard pressed to win the title because we didn't strengthen our squad enough and didn't buy big? Lehmann was the only person of note. Man Yoo were favored to repeat as champions. They bought Djemba-Djemba, Kleiberson, Ronaldo, Bellion. What happened? A season unbeaten in the top flight and Man Yoo were 3rd. Agree with Decaf that we only need a couple positions. We may haggle over the positions but we have a solid nucleus here already. Getting a keeper, a great keeper, I agree with (the Argie/River Plate keeper looks good IMO). I agree we need a striker as well (my vote is Yakubu). I think we can get by wide right by converting Quincy to a winger and him challenging Freddie. Or have Reyes on the right to cut in on his strongest foot like Bobby does on the left. Bentley could be useful as well. I'd see how just a new keeper and striker would work and if need be then go for a winger in January for the final push.
old man of hoy
April 12, 2005
Dave M - i agree that Le Boss can be conservative in making changes to his team once they are on the field - e.g. the metronomic regularity of the 70 minute substitutions - but i can't see how you can believe he is conservative in his general approach. Just run down the list of young unknown players he has brought in who have been successful for us - Vieira, Anelka, Manninger, Wreh, Ljungberg, Cole, Fabregas, Clichy, Flamini and Toure. Then reflect on the gamble he took on players with question marks against their names - Overmars, Petit, Kanu, Pires and Henry - all of whom turned out to be winners for us. Then think about his risk-taking in the Carling Cup where he set the now popular trend of putting out a largely youth squad against Premiership opposition. Think of the way he took the difficult decisions to move established players out of the club even if it meant criticism - Wright, Merson, Silvinho and Seaman spring to mind. Ok he is not perfect but conservative he ain't.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
To summarize: keeper and someone replace Bergy as a playmaker, and the rest will sort itself out. Bernard, I agree with you completely about over-hyping young players. Its the same kind of "wish you were there" thinking that has people falling over each other praising Gilberto for (as far as I can make out) getting injured.
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
This guy is actually a Brit here in the states. http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/3531456 **** We get the Schalke v. Hamburg game this weekend. Another chance to see the defender JamesLT talked about.
Decaf
April 12, 2005
Hedges, I disagree with you when you argue that we need more than 3 players and that our squad is too thin. What we lack at the moment is leadership and spark, because we really did not refresh the squad last season (you can't count the likes of Cesc: the big signing failed). Although Pires and Fred have good-looking goalscoring records, it is really poor old TH has been carrying the team this season. If we buy or graduate ONE player who puts in sensational performances (whether that is a keeper, defender, whatever) it could lift the whole bunch, and the whole thing to start clicking like a rolls-royce again. We have to get someone WORLD CLASS in one of the following positions: keeper, right mid, or striker/playmaker.
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
Cesc is NOT a right midfield player, lacks the pace for one, as well as his talents will be wasted far right and he is far more effective elsewhere. There really is only two positions he can play. His present one or perhaps the Bergkamp support striker role. That's it. **** I would like a couple of our youth on the bench in CL games. Our established stars get psyched out by the competition at crucial times. Its mental. The one thing I have noticed with most of our youth is that they are not fazed by this. They train with Bergkamp, Henry, Pires and Sol each day in training. They are brimming with confidence and the foreign players have built up a little bit of 'British steel' in the reserve games against youth. Look at Aliadiere at Inter. He came on and set up the last goal, was not awed by the occasion. Senderos in Bayern. The article I mentioned about Cesc several days ago about his relishing the games like Man Yoo and he has shown a lot of bottle in games, taking the ball out of the Sheff Utd keeper in the FA cup for the corner and standing toe to toe with anyone who has any thing to say to him and can dish out the revenge tackle as he did several weeks ago. I've said this before. I think we may have to wait for the next class, the youth to win the CL for us. I hope and pray Henry, Vieira, Pires and the older stars can do it, but they are mentally pscyhed out at times. The youth don't seem to have that problem (Lupoli the exception).
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
Steve Martin, I totally agree about the style of footie. I wouldn't want to see the other 19 clubs play like Everton. I also wouldn't want that style adopted as a way to get in the top 4. That said (and to respond to Decaf) Everton have very few, if any, flair players and they don't have much choice. They were picked to be a relegation team and lost their 'best' player. Its their determination I admire to still be 4th when everyone including myself thought the wheels would certainly have fallen off by this time of the year. Its the spirit I admire, not the football. I think this season's Arsenal could learn a thing or two or bottle from this Everton side. It will be a little exciting to see Everton in the CL though. Not sure if they'll get through the group stages but if they do, imagine the likes of Real Madrid, Milan or Barca possbily coming to their grounds?! As far as our style, no way I would have conceived this when I first became a supporter. **** A while back, before he was converted to CB, I wanted Toure` at RB. I thought he would develop into a better RB than Lauren and at the time my reasoning for him being at RB was only to have someone better than Lauren. Eboue is better (or will be better) than either. Hoyte as well. Toure` can stay at CB in my opinion as we have adequate talent at that position. His services aren't needed at that position.
AmericanGooner
April 12, 2005
usukgooner, I have mixed feelings about who I want in the final. Newcastle would give us a win, leave Man Yoo with no trophies and 3rd place likely as it stands now. The only problem with is that Man Yoo still has a pscyhological advantage over us. They are our hoodoo team. When we face them next season we'll stil have the same hoodoo. If we get them in the final and beat them, it will set us up nicely going into next season. It may even hasten Fergie out the door. If we lose, then I am hoping it will force Wenger to make some tough decisions. Decisions that he may not have considered prior. Decisions to buy players he likes but probalby would not buy because of cost. I will be cheering for Newcastle in the game as I can't cheer for Man Yoo under almost any set of circumstances. (almost...I will be for them when they play Chelsea). ***** I would so much like to see us get Yakubu in the summer. He offers a lot of things we don't have. He can also help in clearing the ball on corners and free kicks. Can do what Drogba did for Chelsea in the BM game and head volleys to players in the channels. He can play with his back to the goal keep a CB at bay which will open up space for someone else. **** Fred, with the Man Yoo/Chelsea game moved to the end of the season it makes the little hope we have even less likely. They'll win it before that game and we needed Man Yoo to take points off them.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Usukgooner, that's easy. There would be nothing like the satisfaction from beating Newcastle. Anyway, I'm off.
usukgooner
April 12, 2005
Here is a question, would you rather Newcastle or MU in an FA Cup Final? I am sick of playing MU who will stop at nothing, legal or otherwise to beat us. I would rather just a good old fashioned Cup Final with a strong opponent we should beat.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, indeed nice "speaking" with you too. Believe me, I'm more than happy to be proved wrong. My ultimate concern is we have no right to be successful. Even when we have AG and lots of money it doesn't guarentee anything (look at ManU). This period might be our best chance to win the CL for decades. I think Wenger needs to do something differently, and to me a big part of that is removing the complacency (and occasionally fear) the 1st team sometimes exhibit. If the 5 players you mention make it that obviously makes it very hard for others to (actually if they did get established I'd probably be upset that the next generation aren't allowed to compete with them), but as you say it would be a good return. The bar is very high, I'm just frustrated that certain first team players repeatedly get in despite not clearing it. I think Flamini (not really a true young player) is underrated. To your list I'd add Djourou as a certainty, and Lupoli, Ryan Smith and Muamba and Bendtner have a chance over the next couple of years (as does Hoyte). They won't all make it, I just want them to be given a fair chance.
Cannon Balls
April 12, 2005
If you use success in the Cl to be the criteria on which a season is judged to be a success or failure them there are a lot of failures every season because only one team out of the whole of Europe can win the CL!.You can only say that we have had a disappointing season in Europe at this stage of the season. We are 3 points in front of United and have a great chance to get second spot in the league and auto qualification for the CL. And we can also win the FA Cup - so at this point in time i would not say that we are having a disappointing season domestically - unless you assume that we should win the league title every season, but we do not win it every season and no one ever has. Failure to finish second now in the Premiershiop will be in my view grounds for us having had a bad season because under Wenger we have never finished lower than that. Even winning the FA Cup would not compensate for what would be a backward step and a lowering of our own standards. Let United be third best they were a couple of seasons ago when the car-thieves pipped them to second spot behind us.For me finishing in front of United in the league is more of a priority than winning the FA Cup.Though i expect us of course to do that too.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, no for me he just doesn't release the ball at the right time. He did have a fantastic start to the season and he was in my fantasy football team. Certainly the Neville's set him back, but I think it's more fundamental than confidence. I'm not sure he's a very good decision maker (I think this is what originally annoyed Henry), and you have to be that to be a great player. He used to run with the ball well, but even there he seems to have been worked out by defenders. Where has his wonderful striking of the ball gone? He isn't scoring and he isn't creating. I used to think he'd fullfill his potential somewhere in Spain. Right now I'm not sure he'll fullfill it anywhere.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
Anyway - good "speaking" with you again DaveM. I suppose we'll just have to wait another couple of years for Wenger to prove you wrong again! By which point of course you'll be championing a new generation of youth! For what its worth I still believe if they are good enough for Arsenal they will make it here but the bar is very, very high. Cesc clearly is, as is Clichy (though with Cole there we will have to see how it works out), Senderos is prety certain, Van P should do it and I think Quincy may be up to it. I think Aliadiere is touch and go but that is really nobody's fault. It is difficult when every time you get a chance you are crocked. The rest I am not sure about. But even if just the ones above make it, that will be an excellent return.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
DaveM - I dont know about Boro as I hardly saw any of it. I thought he was pretty good against Norwich as well thogh hardly the stiffest opposition. I dont reckon any of this is about him having his head down too much or not developing. I think it is entirely attitude and pyschology. He was sensational at the start of the season. Most on here thought he was going to be a candidate for player of the season. I had him in my fantasy team and goals and assists saw him racking up the points so he must have been fairly creative. And then he got spooked by the Nevilles which seemed to coincide with his homesickness and the understandable if somewhat intolerant and uncharitable attitude of Henry (and I still think the Arogones incident didn't help). It is going to be hard to pull round but it is possible and I would be delighted because, apart from Henry and maybe Bergkamp, he looked the most talented player I have seen in my time at the club.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
I have the Terry incident on video. I'll check it and get back to you (although I'm not sure when I'll post again).
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, I believe Reyes performance against Boro was poor. He was pretty decent against Blackburn, but that has been the exception in recent times. Of course Wenger doesn't want to dump him - frankly it would be embarrassing. However, I don't see any sign he's a better player than he was this time last year (again the contrast with Quincy). That's deeply disturbing. Never mind the lack of goals, he isn't creating enough. He plays with his head down too much, and by now the coaching should have been making more of a difference. We both agree Wenger has to win the game, we just have a different approach to it. I'd play VP instead of Bergkamp. We're going up against a 5 man midfield - whoever our 'no. 10' is, he's going to have a hard game.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
I dont think it was over the line Ralph/DaveM - which makes it an interesting one. He handballed it while it was in play but failed to save it. When a player fouls another, the ref is entiteld to allow play to carry on before coming back to take action over the original incident. I think technically, the ref was within his rights and maybe even compelled by the rules to allow the goal and then send Terry off. You would never see it though. Even though it would have been ****ing hilarious.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Ralph, it was already over the line by the time he handled it. Yes we have expectations, and some of our big name, experienced players have fallen well short in certain games and yet keep playing. We're second and have failed in Europe again. Wenger is very conservative, which is both a strength and a weakness, but I think if he tweaked his selection policy we'd have fewer poor performances.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
Look Reyes has frustrated me massively this season. He is a little baby who is pissing away one of the best opportunities to develop as a person that he may ever have. His family aren't helping him but he is a 21 year old and should tell them to **** off. However, as yet we haven't sold him and it still looks like Wenger wants to make something of him. His last few performances, while still short of the sensational (player of the year in the making) form of the start of the season have been pretty decent and certainly well above anything that I have seen from Quincy YET. Going into the semi Wenger's job is to forget about anything other than winning this match (something he failed to do last season). I truly dont believe that Quincy gives us a better chance of winning this game than Reyes. Or that Aliadiere with not a start behind him is a better bet than Bergkamp.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Mee, yes. The fact we're in the semi and the league is likely to go down to the wire means we're unlikely to see many young players. I genuinely believe we'd have more chance of achieving our aims with some of the youngsters than we do by going for the conservative selections I expect to see. The next few games are going to be hard.
Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
April 12, 2005
Why was John Terry's handball on the line when trying to prevent Brum's goal not rewarded with a red card?
Ralph (3/- Clock Ender)
April 12, 2005
Re; Youth debate. Mr Wenger tries to put teams out that are comfortable with each others game. Introducing a random kid (LUPOLI) and expecting them to flourish for several matches is a dream/disaster waiting to happen. See if Everton play their new wunderkid again vs a top team and see if he succeeds again. I also believe it is an expectation thing. What Fabregas, Senderos, Clichy, Aliadiere and RVP are doing is a bonus when it goes well and a shrug when it does not due to their experience and small fees. However, Reyes is of a similar age but a high fee, so the fans are a little less tolerant. Kids can get experience with teams that are happy to survive. At Arsenal it is a thin line between success and failure because we are perceived to now be a big player and any drop in performance or results is seen as crisis time. Spurs or Bolton or Man City can ‘enjoy’ middle table status with its lows & highs while introducing young players. If they survive relegation they are a success. Arsenal have gone too high for the media to allow us a few seasons in the doldrums. Success this season for me will be to be higher than ManU which means we have beaten them for two back to back seasons. For me this shows how far this club has come on the finances we enjoy. If we can achieve it again next year and be in top two we will have a chance to float into our new home AG with a squad that is ready to win big in a stadium that needs a big team to grace its sward. Trust Arsene.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Bernard, yes he was kicked out because of his attitude, and he's turned it all around. When I saw him in the CC last season I thought he was a show-pony. He has really progressed. It's true he could think as you've suggested, but equally he could think 'I'm playing well, Reyes isn't, yet I can't even get to the bench'. Or, if he did get in he might even think 'Wow, what a meritocracy. Being in the side is dependant on performance. If the boss will drop Reyes who he paid all that money for, he'd certainly drop me. I must have a spotless attitude and work really hard'. Which attitude is generally healthier for the club?
Mee
April 12, 2005
DaveM; Have to agree with you on Reyes, although he has undoubted quality, his confidence seems low. Unfortunately as we are still challenging for second place in the PL and in the cup semi, the opportunities for giving someone like Quincy an extended run are restricted.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Sorry DaveM, but Quincy has said a few times that he didn't make it at Ajax because his attitude stank (I can't remember the exact word he used, but it meant that). If he was suddenly given the impression that all he had to do to get a first team place at Arsenal was play well in two lesser cup matches, I think he could suddenly think: 'life's so easy, you don't have to work at it to become a first teamer at Arsenal'. And if that happened, his attitude would probably look to the people at Arsenal how it apparently looked to the people at Ajax. If Wenger makes him think he's got to play really well in a lot of games to have a chance of making an impact, in my view he'll have far more chance of making it here.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Mee, I thought BM looked good against us at Highbury. To be honest I thought they might have a chance against Chelsea. I didn't think we came close to getting the second.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Clock End Ginger, ah, but what happened to the guy who wasn't too greedy? Where I came in this afternoon was that I think next season is shaping up to be very similar to this. Wenger needs to be ruthless, and either sell some of the first teamers or let selection be based more on form. Reyes is nowhere near his early season form. He's been given loads of chances, and he isn't delivering. A player as quick and skillful as Quincy will be a nightmare to defend against - I'd just like to see him given more chances.
Mee
April 12, 2005
DaveM I don’t believe Bayern were able to step up a gear in the last twenty minutes of the home game, in fact had we enjoyed a ‘lucky deflection’ or the ref had failed to spot an infrigement from a corner, we would not be having this failure in Europe discussion at all.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Bernard, sorry to stun you. Yes, based on that. Quincy is wonderfully gifted, as is Reyes. However, Quincy has recovered from Ajax effectively ending his career at 15, showing a mental strength which Reyes is sadly lacking. The OT game was distorted by their early goal and greater physical strength all over the pitch. He seems to have everything he needs to be a top player, and he's taken the opportunties he's been given. He deserves more.
clock End Ginger
April 12, 2005
One of the themes of Layer Cake, a pretty decent Brit gangster film, which I watched at the weekend, is not being too greedy, and appreciating when things are going along nicely for you. Well, its been a good season. I go along with EEG that the big failures centre around Man Utd in the Premiership. We need to be menatally tougher. I also rue Henry missing that late sitter against Chelsea as psychologically, that was a big point for them. But I cannot stand the type of fans who think that if you don't win the Premiership the season is a disaster. Life isn't, and what is more, shouldn't be like that. We don't deserve it this year; It has been transitional, but next year we will have Fabregas, Flamini, Senderos, Van Persie, Quincy and Eboue, with more experience. We're still top scorers, and it looks like we will get second again, and you now have to go right back to 1997 to find the last time we were out of the top two; That in itself is Wenger's greatest acheivement, alongside the type of football we're known for. If we beat Utd in the Final, as I believe we will, then we'll all feel even better. Of course in one sense its a nightmare that Chelsea have come along with unlimited cash but its also a new challenge: how sweet will it be to topple them next season? We are not as far away as some imagine; A goalkeeper, a centre back and a striker to help Henry and replace Reyes could sort it, plus Vieira off the back of a proper break rather than a tournament and a summer fling with Real Madrid. Meanwhile there is a team in third who cannot score and have spent all their cash. Life could be drastically worse. As long as AW isn't complacent and spends this summer we should be stronger next time round...
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
I think "dropping" is the wrong word. When he brings in a young player it is for a reason and they know that. If following a cup opportunity they are not put into the next League game, they are not dropped so much as the existing first teamer is recalled. Remember that those cup teams had included players like Djourou (sp), Larsen, Karbassyan (??) etc. Quincy was good so was given a league game and some substitute appearances. That was a massive boost from Wenger and I dount Quincy expected it. He looked ok but was not within a million miles of Reyes early season-from. Even a just above average Reyes like at Ewood is some way ahead of Quincy. The problem you have is you over-inflate the first team performances of the youngsters in your mind and that may be based on seeing a lot of reserve football which is sunday standard by comparison. I think Wenger has managed the youth very well this season.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, it's true Chelsea have distorted the league. However, the performances against WBA, Southampton, and Crystal Palace had nothing to do with Chelsea. As for Europe, surely the fact that teams who are worse than us keep doing better suggests we are doing something seriously wrong? The home game against BM was a lacklustre performance. We never looked like we believed we'd win. Compare that with Liverpool against Juve at Anfield. I also had the feeling BM were holding us at arms length and could have gone up the gears if they'd wanted to. Our tactics and attitude aren't good enough in Europe - we seems to struggle in so many games.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
DaveM, I was stunned to see you say that you think Quincy would give us more than Reyes. Based on what exactly; a top game in the League Cup against Everton and a good game in the FA Cup against Sheffield United? It's right that he has to do more than that to earn a first team place in my view, after all he was very poor in the League Cup at Old Trafford.
Gunfire
April 12, 2005
Davem. You are right on the money about Europe. We need to try something new and try new players in new positions. Manure have fallen back and will fall back further I am thrilled to say. We need to improve for next season. I like you will not be happy with another exit from Europe before the clocks go forward.
Mee
April 12, 2005
DaveM; Wenger has argued that given his resources the club has no more right than Tottenham to demand a CL place or the title every other year. What he has acheived on a tight budget is little short of miraculous. The fact that Chelsea are 11 points ahead is rather more to do with the ‘Abromavich effect’ than any diminishing in playing standards at Arsenal. I agree totally with EEGooner in relation to converting players to different positions, Henry had to be persuaded of this himself!
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Also, the 'the senior players know their value' point is fundamental. I think some of them are all too aware they won't be dropped, no matter how poorly they play.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
DaveM - I think the League is distorted and it is difficult to fight the combined efforts of two top class first teams. The 11 points is a freak from a franchise. It is nothing like 2000 and 2001. Without the franchise we would be champions three out of four seasons and it is unfair to judge Wenger as failing in circumstances where the goal-posts have been shifted so dramatically. As for Europe I have been pissed off with it for years. I accept our failings seem to be more than coincidence but it is still a knock-out cup. Our performance at home to Bayern was pretty good and we had poor luck with injuries at a crucial time. Given it was won by Porto last year in a final with Monaco with Chelsea and Deportivo in the semis and this year has Liverpool a possible semi-finalist to be joined by one of PSV and Lyon, I am not going to accept we are just not good enough. Had we not managed to win our group I think we would be in the semi.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Juliano, I think you sum up Wenger's thinking exactly. I just think it's wrong. Our young players look mentally tough as nails to me (unlike certain other players I could mention). At some point you have to give them a chance to fail. We've had one player thrown in too early this season - Lupoli at Sheffield United. Generally they haven't let him down at-all. Then he drops them.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, I guess you can undermine any achievement if you want to, but I think Toure played at the back because we'd run out of centre-halves for the Charity Shield and he happened to do very well. We have indeed played some extremely young sides this year, they've repeatedly done the job for us, and their reward is to be dropped. Wenger will play young players, and I think he really believes in them. However, I still think he seems them as being young players, and everyone else being senior, and then we come back to the hierachy point I've made before. Wenger will play young players if he has no choice. If he has a choice he won't. He seems to have purposely stripped the squad of average older players (Mendez, Maltz etc) - he's so close now, if only he'd select on form rather than on name.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
DaveM-I understand you point, and your way of thinking. The difference between a first teamer, who may have the odd poor game, and a youngster, is that with a first teamer you know what you've got, whereas playing a youngster means taking a risk. You'd like Wenger to take more risks, but you don't have all the information he has at his disposal. He knows how they're doing with the ressies, he has Banfield and Brady telling him who's ready and who's not. Wenger doesn't have a problem with youngsters, those who impress keep their place. I even think that he's too keen on Aliadière for example, who in my opinion has shown nothing more than Pennant in the few games he's played. On the other hand, think about what could happen to a youngster if he's thrown in while not ready? If he has an absolute mare for his first game, how will he react? You may argue that first teamer have mares, but the difference is they know their value, and they -mostly- don't see their confidence drop after one bad game.
Allinson I
April 12, 2005
I believe we have to go (mostly) with experience on Saturday, hence: Jens, Lauren, Campbell (if not 100% fit Senderos), Toure, Cole, Ljungberg, Vieira, Gilberto, JAR, Henry, Bergkamp. Tough call for Phillipe, but if Campbell is fully fit I'd reunite him with Toure - Wenger needs to decide by August who his first choice CB partnership is (and it may be Phillipe) - but for now I'd go with Toure/Campbell and then try out Senderos/Campbell for some of the last few PL games. I'd keep Freddy there, and believe we need to start JAR for as many games as possible until May (to work out whether we want to keep him and/or boost his transfer value - personally I think he should stay). Put Bob on the bench - he's better coming on later than JAR anyway. Most important - I'm looking forward to going (but not the journey) for 2nd match only this season. PTBAG.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Niall, I guess this comes down to definitions. I don't see Henry, Vieira and Reyes as 'young' players when they arrived. They were Wenger signings, and Wenger had a particular plan for them. As has been discussed, he is incredibly loyal to players he likes and gave them a lot of chances (although Vieira was great from the start) - I don't think players who've come through the youth and reserves get the same chances. Basically I don't think selection has much to do with how people are playing. I think Reyes and Quincy are a good example. Wenger persists with Reyes despite poor or indifferent form. I think if Quincy was given those opportunities then he'd do a lot more with them than Reyes has. I still await with interest what Wenger will do with Cesc now he has all his midfielders available. Senderos is the exception - he looks like he's won his place - but that was a bit of a no-brainer, given how good he is in the air and how porr we are.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
DaveM - I have banged on about Wenger's caution for some time but I dont see it in terms of youth. I think it has manifested itself more in the likes of Edu taking so long to get a proper go and in some of his substitutions and tactics. But, to be fair to Wenger, he could ask whether it is a cautious manager who takes a failing right-winger and turns him into the finest centre-forward in the World or who gives a first team centre-back position to a 21-year old utility player. And I doubt any other team has given so much opportunity to youth this season. We have had a 17 year old play over half our games in centre-midfield, a 19 year old establish himself at centre-back, another 19 year old make some people relax about the possibility of losing one of the best left backs in the World and have given significant opportunities to other very young players to the extent that the average age of some of our teams has been ridiculously low.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
Alex-I'd be interested to know the answer. I think Tottenham have played a fair amount of them. Ziegler, Kelly, Marney. But then again, it depends of the way of counting. A fair way would be to count the number of U21 playing league games.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Alex, er yes. Juliano, why should young players be expected to set the world alight on their first game when we've had so many signings (Pires and Henry are two prominant examples) who've taken ages to achieve their potential. Wenger does put a big emphasis on the youth academy, and he is happy to play them when nobody else is available, but they aren't allowed to compete. If expectations are so high, and every game counts, why do we put up with so many poor performances so certain of the senior players? East End, we're 11 points off the lead and we've got nowhere in Europe again. Are you content for it to be like this next season? Wenger looks to have overtaken Ferguson, and that is impressive, but lots of that is them going backwards. We need to do something in Europe.
Niall
April 12, 2005
Reyes, Vieira, Cole, Henry, Cesc etc etc. Wenger will play them if they are good enough DaveM, I mean all the facts support that conclusion. The one he says might prove him wrong is Sidwell and there is a chance he might even buy him back!!
Alex
April 12, 2005
I havn't written off Pires for one. But I do think he needs a bit more competition. If Reyes is staying, I guess he will offer that, though I think he wants more oppertunities up front. I think he and Ljungberg in the next few years could be like are Rui Costas.
Alex
April 12, 2005
Who in the PL has given more chances to young players this season?
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, absolutely right. I've posted a large amount here over the years, and much of it has turned out to be wrong. And yes, Wenger may possibly have made a better job of managing Arsenal than I would have done. However, at this point I think my long held belief that Wenger is extremely conservative in team selection is correct, and I think we'd have achieved more if he'd changed that approach (I nearly said philosophy). I don't remember you ever saying anything like that before, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Bernard, what can I say. I just disagree with you on the merits of Cole and Clichy. However, if Cole doesn't want to play there then that's obviously a problem.
Mee
April 12, 2005
Everybody seems ready to write Pires off. Presumably these are the same dissenting voices we heard last year, just before he scored a spectacular goal away to Liverpool in the rain.
Alex
April 12, 2005
Planet Football. Wasn't the Semi in 98/99?
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
I dont think this season has been a failure. There have been mistakes and disappointments. The biggest mistakes were the over-reaction to the first United defeat (although dont forget we were cheated out of that game in a big way) and the failure to deal properly with the goal-keeping situation. The biggest disappointment was the discraceful surrender to United at Highbury after we had taken them in the first half. However, even though you could say we should have got more points here and there, it would have required a record to win it and our overall performance so far has been ok. What Wenger has done (as opposed to being passed) is to pass United. I expect by the end of the season we will have beaten United in three of the last four seasons and without the freak that is Abramovich Town, we would have won three of four titles with our own failings causing the only blip.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
I don't think Wenger is being over cautious with youngsters. Wherever he's been, he has always put a great focus on the youth academy. But it is very different at a club like Arsenal, where every game counts, and the level of expectation is very, very high. To warrant a first team spot, a youngster has to impress straight away, and to be honest, those who have have kept their place in the squad. I agree there aren't many of them, namely Cole, Touré, Clichy, Cesc. The problem is that whilst some players will instantly adjust to the pace/level of the first team, others will take more time, would need more games under their belt to take the next step. Unfortunately, that is a luxury that we cannot afford with the level of expectation at Arsenal, that is why players like Pennant, Bentley and others have been loaned at lower ranked clubs, to gain some much needed top flight practice. If they cannot impress enough then they're probably not Arsenal stuff, like Volz or Pennant. Decent premiership players, who may even reach an excellent level at 26/27, but we need more than that. It is disappointing to see someone not making it, but to get a bit of perspective, a couple of years ago the youngsters who left the club were ending playing division 2, division 1 at best, and were not setting the place alight (Vernazza for example) whereas those who have recently left are playing top flight football (Thomas, Ricketts, Volz, Pennant, Upson) or shining in the division 1 (Sidwell).
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Alex, well back in 99/00 and 00/01 I thought we did have the best squad in the country. I was stunned when we lost the semi to ManU, particularly because they didn't start their strongest side (and I think that has influenced my thinking every since - I was complacent, I think the team was and ManU tore into us). Yes, I thought the young players might have been good enough. I doesn't look like any of them were. However, Wenger never, ever gave them opportunties. This attitude is still there today, and it's why the same 11 will trot out game in, game out. I'd actually like to see a young player fail (we certainly see it happen often enough with senior players), because it would suggest we're taking constructive risks. I think you should be judged on your last game, and therfore I'd give VP another start. He's coming on quite nicely, judging by the Blackburn and reserve games I've seen recently. Bergkamp has had a couple of bursts of good form, but he's also had some horrible games. I don't doubt he'll start against Chelsea, but VP should start Saturday. Lauren has made so many mistakes this season he doesn't merit a place in the side. Quincy has looked better than ok (Everton couldn't handle him, and that alone should have got him another start) - if you were a rb you wouldn't want him to play. I don't expect Aliadiere will start, but I'd like to see it as he seems to be a complete modern centre-forward to me.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
Alex, do you have a link for Ferguson's comments as I've not noticed anything? Or if not, can you summarise what he said? DaveM, I think Clichy looks more of a midfield player than Cole to be honest, though they've both had good games there. Also, I saw a comment by Cole that although he's done it in a few recent games, he does not want to play in midfield consistently. I'm not aware of Clichy saying something similar. If we are to have any chance of keeping him (Cole) and we want them both (Cole and Clichy) in the team, Clichy in midfield looks the more sensible option to me.
Cannon Balls
April 12, 2005
On a no-news day that is dragging it's weary way on the drunken jock can always be guaranteed to provide a little light relief. Arsenal he stutters are responsible for the FA Cup semi-finals being played in Cardiff!. This somewhat weak and contrived attempt at causing a controversy is obviously aimed at deflecting attention away from his own inept management at OT, shown up by recent results. Vieria came out last week in his role of Arsenal Captain to complain about the ties being held in Cardiff in an interview with the media.One of his points being that it takes some of the gloss off of the final with these other ties being played in the stadium which will host the final.So once again an anti-Arsenal diatribe from Ferguson with no basis in reality. Still if they do nothing else let's hope that they add more incentive to our desire to finish in front of him in the league and take the cup off of him also.
Alex
April 12, 2005
Mee, I quite agree!
Alex
April 12, 2005
Dissapointing yes, failure no. Good F.A Cup run, gaurenteed CL spot, good PL total, Charity Sheild, not so bad. Europe has hurt again, not sure what is wrong there. But overall, because of our situation stated before, this has been a good season. It took Fergy 13 years to crack Europe. Barcelona have only won the Euro Cup once. Arsenal still don't have what it takes. But taking crazy gambles with the team, and leaving the club in a mess will only see that dream move further away.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
Finally DaveM - while we are getting all nostalgic and you are giving yourself plaudits for your earlier comments you are far too modest to mention your best so I'll do it for you. Talking about Wenger's caution and the lack of opportunities for youth you said certain teams were "passing us". Liverpool, Leeds and Chelsea were the sides. Now, if I were being very generous, I might give you Chelsea but then I doubt even you'd say you saw the coming of Abramovich and without him they would probably be heading the way of Leeds. And even with him, its hardly by the investment in youth that they have hit the top is it? So I think its fair to say that despite his caution, Wenger has more than proved you wrong over those 6 years!
Mee
April 12, 2005
JamesLT: I love the assumption that players like Totti and Ronaldinho would be falling over themselves to play for us. Who are they currently playing for Bolton and Palace?
Alex
April 12, 2005
Hope no one stayed up for Nantes vs Lyon- Toulanlan didn't even play.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
You said the problem for Aliadiere was he hadn't played enough football before last year's semi and here we are in exactly the same situation. It would be foolish. Cesc, Clichy, Senderos, Van Persie, Flamini, Eboue and Quicny have had significantly more opportunity than they would normally have had and apart from the first three they haven't done enough yet. That is not to criticise them, just to say they are not ready for such a big game. To put out the team you suggest against a side as well organised as Blackburn would be mental.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Alex, it's nice he talks to me so. I agree it is one of his great stengths, the way he shows confidence. I also think it's his greatest weakness, He gets too close to certain players and let's them get away with too many poor performances. How many games do you give someone who's playing poorly to get back into form? Every game whilst they're trying to get back to form hurts the rest of the team. Again I think Wenger gets the balance wrong - this season has been a failure. I used to want Clichy at lm, but it never really worked. Cole seems to be much better at it, and I think Clichy is pretty much as good as Cole as a lb.
Alex
April 12, 2005
99/00 & 00/01- we did not have the best squad in the PL. Certainly not good enough for the CL. I'm not sure how you can be so critical of Wenger. Who do you think is a better manager?
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
DaveM - Its not quite true that Wenger's caution sums up your concerns over the last 6 years. You missed the second and crucial part of the equation in that you always maintained that the young players were good enough to come in and were being unfairly denied an opportunity. You are still doing it now though at least this crop are somewhat better than Hughes, Crowe, Barratt and the other players you were lauding for a first team spot. Van P has been very ordinary and in no way deserves to play ahead of Bergkamp who, yes is fading, but who is also in the odd game putting together some great performances. He was our best player against United and other games around that time. Van P isn't up to the team play yet. Eboue has not played enough football to merit a place in such a key game. Same has to be said for Quincy who has looked OK but that is all so far. Aliadiere has to be a joke. There is an argument for putting him on the bench but starting him is crazy.
Alex
April 12, 2005
Fergy stirring up trouble again, as soon as he's in some trouble. Are Man U fans so stupid that they don't see through his diversion tactics. 'Don't worry about us being shit, lets have a go at Arsenal instead.' W"&*^R!!!!
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Dormouse, I wouldn't play all our youngsters in the CL. However, I'd like to see 2 or 3 in as a matter of routine because I think their energy levels and attitude will raise the games of the rest of the side. JamesLT, you're quite right there isn't a plan B. Unfortunately Wenger has been quite dismissive of the idea there should be one. This is another reason why I'm worried obout next season. Nevermind the results, I think good performances in Europe under Wenger have been too rare. We really haven't got that close, and I don't see why this would change. Alex, I am suggesting a change in tactics because I don't think the current approach is working. Since 1998/9 I've believed every season we've had the best group of players, and given that I think we've underachieved. Therefore I'd like to see a new approach tried. I don't follow Italian football though, so wherever I got the idea it wasn't there. Juliano, yes I expect I did say that. It would have been wrong, but it's always been the principle that's concerned me. Bergkamp has had some serious dips in form over the years, and I think out of form players shouldn't be playing and form players should. Now we have a group of young players who are much more gifted, and I think while they are playing well they should be in the side. This is tied to my belief that young players have an intrinsic value because they have something to prove, and therefore, all other things being equal you should try to have some in the side. The trick is getting the balance right. If everyone is fit Wenger gets the balance wrong.
Alex
April 12, 2005
Players out of form do not get back into form without playing games, and the manager showing he has confidence in them. This is one Wengers greatest strengths. When Wenger says that we need not to panic, because panic decisions are bad decisions, I think he was personally speaking to you DaveM. Cole at left MF? One of the best LBs in the world? I agree Clichy and Cole mix it up well together, but I always thought they were better with Clichy in MF. Why has Wenger swaped them around on the last few occasions?
Bernard
April 12, 2005
EEG, but aren't you judging him on those same games, or is it just that because he is technically decent and strong, you automatically think that adds up to him being a right back? I certainly don't remember anything special in the Wolves at home match last season either. As I say, I do remember the Blackburn home and Bolton away matches, and very little else that suggests he could be a right back, including one game this season which he started at right back and looked poor, then he moved to the centre when one of the central defenders got injured and improved radically.
Juliano
April 12, 2005
Playing youngsters has always been DaveM's obsession though, hasn't it? I mean you were arguing that Bergkamp should have made way for Barrett a couple of years ago (yes I know I always come up with that btw)
DaveM
April 12, 2005
East End, I'm glad you agree with me that Wenger is over-cautious bringing players through and dropping players who play badly. That sentence sums up the gist of my posts over the last 6 years. I disagree though that other youngsters haven't done enough with the 'ample' opportunities they've been given. Aliadiere hasn't started a game this season. Obviously this is because he's been injured. He was awful in last years semi, but who wasn't? The two starts I can remember him having last year were Liverpool away, where he rans his socks off for 60 minutes whilst our midfield, featuring Gilberto and Ljungberg I think, got blown away and the semi against a desperate ManU. We need to find out if he's good enough, and those two games were not good ways to judge. He's just come off the back of a very good performance for the reserves, let's find out. VP's form is improving and he won the last game he started for us, which was against Blackburn. He's certainly worth a start over a fading Bergkamp and an under-achieving Reyes. Quincy has started one PL game, and did fine. He's played well against Man City, destroyed Everton's defence (and they are still fourth) and had a excellent game against Sheffield United. I'd love to see him given some of the opportunities Reyes has had. Eboue hasn't had much opportunity yet, but he's done ok in the FA Cup so far, and I really don't think he'll do any worse than Lauren. Picking a side like the once I've suggested would also shake up the first team. There's too much certainty, too much complacency amongst a group of player who know they are guarenteed their places. You're right we might annoy Blackburn, but they'll be 100% up for it anyway and I have faith in the talent and attitude of the players I've listed. The biggest failure I can remember under Wenger was last season against Chelsea, and that occurred without messing around with the team. I do agree with you about Pires though, I think we often play well with him wide right.
Alex
April 12, 2005
I wonder if are inability to do anything productive with set plays is the reason we can't defend them. Are defenders must never get proper practise in training. Cesc is also NOT a right MF player. He can do a job, but that is it. I'm sure Toure can do a job at RB too, but we need more than that. The suggestion smacks of lack of patience with his jittery performances this year, but feel too guilty to suggest getting rid of him, because you spent all of last year singing his praises. This is not wise team selection. Dave M- you're suggesting a radical change in tactics. More functional wide players, with more creative central players. The opposite in fact to the current situation. This would require a completely new MF, the problems of which I have already stated. I think it's a system that pretty popular in Italy, is this where your inspiration came from?
Alex
April 12, 2005
To play the sort of football that Wenger likes, and to have the consistency that Arsenal have undoubtably had in the last 8 years, you have to have a stable squad, and know exactly what your 1st 11 is. Splashing out vast sums on 'star' players, gambling on numerous youngsters at the same time, and constantly changing tactics would be a massive risk, and possibly suicidal. Arsenal are not yet a European 'super-power', and are at a sensative time financially. Stability is extremely important right now. If you get rid of Viera, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Pires etc. you rip the heart out of the team. As Benitez said, ''sometimes you only need to change one ot two things to make the difference'' (or something like that). We were unbeaten last year you know!
DaveM
April 12, 2005
I don't think we can assume Campbell will be injured for much of next season. If we really believe that then why did we offer him a big money contract? He's probably just had a bad season with injuries. Toure should be good going forward, he's started a fair few games for us wide left and right (Wenger put him in in front of Pennant, and the writing was on the wall). Alex, I think one holding central midfielder is enough. If you play Gilberto and Vieira and the opposition sit on Bergkamp then we're going to struggle to create as was demonstrated Saturday. The other 3 midfielders just need to show tactical discipline and not all get caught up field with the full-backs. I think this is a strong argument for Cole playing left midfield next season and having a proper, pacey attacking wide right player. Cesc is intelligent enough to take up the right positions defensively when necessary. Charles III, most sides just have their strikers who are dependant on the rest of the side to help them play well, we also have one of our midfielders. Good sides will overwhelm the rest of midfield. Our midfielders need to be able to seize the game, and I don't think Ljungberg or Gilberto (or Pires anymore, and even Vieira doesn't do it as often as he used to) can. Gilberto isn't our Makakele. They both have excellent positional sense and can set the tempo from deep, but Claude can tackle too.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
Also, one of the problems this season is that we have been rarely able to pick the side that went unbeaten last season. To be able to play a similar side in Cardiff would be a boost. Conservative though it may be, I would go for Lehman, Toure (unless Campbell is not fully fit), Campbell, Senderos, Cole, Pires, Vieira, Gilberto, Reyes, Bergkamp and Henry with Lauren, Cesc, Edu, Ljungberg and Van Persie on the bench. Reyes form has been improving and I reckon the space in Cardiff will suit him. Many of our best performances (including the Villa one that was the best of my time) have come with Pires on the right. Blackburn will strong arm us and apart from Reyes this side can resist it.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
DaveM - Sorry but your team is silly. I do agree with you that Wenger is over-cautious in bringing players through and in dropping players who lose form but the truth is that apart from Cesc, Senderos and Clichy, who is unavailable, none of the youngsters have this season done enough with the ample opportunities available to them through injury etc to merit taking such a risk in the semi. For a start you will get the Norwich effect for Blackburn of at once lifting them because they are playing a perceived weaker side and annoying them through your perceived arrogance. Second, you'd hope we learned the lesson of last year in pissing around with the team (Aliadiere is in yours as a jokey reference to last season's debacle I take it?) for a semi.
East End Gooner
April 12, 2005
At home to Wolves he was excellent as well - especially going forwards. I reckon he does look like a full-back. He is comfortable at bringing the ball forward. It is silly to try and judge him in a few games pushed out wide this season when he has played in the centre in all other games.
JamesLT
Plan B / Superstar Signing
April 12, 2005
DAVE M: I agree with a lot of your concerns. I don't agree with the pundits that say our style would never be successful in Europe though. After all, we've had some amazing results in the last five years against Bayer Leverkusen, PSV, Roma, Juventus and Inter, for example. I think the problem is just that there is no PLAN B. What you can say about our current style is that it is fragile. Everything has to be in place for it work 100%. If players are off form, carrying injuries, tired or the opposition are on form and have a great spoiling strategy then we have problems at the highest level - although not always in the Premier League. We need to vary our approach more, something Wenger seems too stubborn to accept. Sometimes we need to fight out a result or rely on set-pieces. We're not just suspect at defending set-pieces, we're also pretty useless with our own attacking set-pieces. It would be great to have a player that can take perfect corners and free-kicks... ... ... ... ... ... ... I also think the idea of a SUPERSTAR SIGNING isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. Yes, Wenger is usually very careful with the club's money, but Arsenal have a long tradition of major signings - usually as a reassurance to fans and a restatement of our ambition. You can look back at Bergkamp, Platt, Macdonald and Ball as examples of this... I think after Chelsea's big season and the sight of Ashburton Grove on the horizon a huge signing would help energise the club and create a mood of optimism. It would certainly help sell seats and boxes for the new stadium... Having said all that, I suspect that Wenger and Dein's inclination would more likely be to try and get a "cheap" superstar signing. A Beckham instead of a Gerrard, a Del Piero instead of a Totti, or an Aimar instead of a Ronaldinho.
Bernard
April 12, 2005
DaveM, I remember top performances at home to Blackburn and away to Bolton last season from right back. I certainly remember nothing like six or eight. I also don't remember any from the 2002/3 at full back, nor any this season. I have never been convinced he's a full back, and it'll take rather more than two very good displays there (which is all I can remember) to convince me otherwise.
Dormouse
April 12, 2005
DaveM - I can't agree that the solution to winning the CL is playing all our youngsters. We didn't play particularly well this year, but were only killed by a very poor defensive performance at Munich. We need a few signings who can give us a lift at that level. I agree that we haven't seemed to have the spirit this year & that it seemed to be gradually running out even before OT, but I don't think that playing all the youngsters at once is the answer.
Dormouse
April 12, 2005
Hedges - we most particularly don't have cover for Henry or Gilberto & need replacements for DB (even if he stays) & the GK. We have been very lucky with Henry's fitness & freedom from injuries, & I'd hate to have to go on a long run of games without him. We may lack depth across the team, but we cannot even attempt to do a Chelski & have 2 top players for every position. The youngsters have done very well & I wouldn't have any problem with Senderos, Fabregas, Clichy & Flamini playing regularly (though I'd want at least one experienced MF player in the team most of the time). Talking of possible signings, BWP seems to me more promising than SWP was at the same stage.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
Bernard, I think it was last season Toure had a run at right-back (something like 6 or 8 games?) and on the back of this he made it into a few journalists team of the season at rb. I think I'm right in saying he made it into Amy Laurence's team (Arsenal supporting Observer journalist). Certainly I thought he was an excellent rb, although admittedly his performances there this season haven't been great.
DaveM
April 12, 2005
I'm increasingly worried about next season. Pires has been given an extra year (although apparently he didn't know it!). We've already signed up Lauren, we're going to offer Gilberto a new contract and there are neasty rumours we're going to offer Ljungberg one. Let's be blunt, this season has been a failure. Also, in recent years we've got nowhere near winning the CL. Yet Wenger seems determined to retain the players who've let us down this and in previous seasons. He's quite right that defence has been a major problem, and Senderos seems to have been a large part of the solution here. However, there's more wrong with us than that. I know some pundits think our style can never be successful in Europe (too intricate, too many chances for moves to break down), and then we all have criticisms of different players. However, I think a major part of the problem is that too many of our senior players have learnt how to lose. When we play certain types of teams and things start to go wrong I think several of our players let their heads go down, and think something like "This always happens, we're going to lose again". I'd say this applies to players like Pires, Bergkamp, Ljungberg and even to players like Vieira and Henry. Reyes looks mentally weak to me too. We need a shake-up of personnel, to improve the mental strength of the team. I can't see a side with the players I've listed being successful in Europe, but Wenger seems to want to retain them all (and, when he's retained them, to play them all). I'm afraid that next season we'll witness more of the type of performance that was labled 'gutless' by someone here yesterday. Our young players haven't learnt to lose. Players like Senderos and Cesc won't quit. We don't need experience against Blackburn, we need hungry, fearless players. Wenger says we'll beat Blackburn by out passing them and by running in behind. He should play: Lehmann, Eboue, Senderos, Campbell, Cole, Cesc, Vieira, Edu (who I believe is fit, and who unusually actually took Gilberto's place on merit last season), Quincy, Van Persie, Aliadiere (let's see whether he's good enough or not). Henry would of course improve this side, but otherwise I think it's about as strong as we can put out. The young players make the older player raise their games. I'm not looking forward to Wenger having a full squad to pick from, because I think he always picks the same players when given a choice.
Dormouse
April 11, 2005
Originally there was the first year syndrome where overseas players took a season to get used to the premiership; possibly also some signings to take time fitting in with the team. Now there is the second year syndrome where players deteriorate. If we can identify a third year syndrome, we might call this the Jeffers progression. There is some truth to the 1st & 2nd year syndromes, but it depends on the player & the position. The second year syndrome applies particularly to wingers & strikers whose tricks are found out, and to some extent to defenders & MF players once their weaknesses are identified & exploited. They then have to develop new tricks & work on their weaknesses - Ronaldo is a good example. I agree with CB in that I don't think that it applies to Toure who always needed the protection given by Campbell & Gilberto, though he wasn't helped by being a particularly bad fit with Cygan. Toure has his strengths but he is definitely not the rock a defence can be based on & he is inclined to panic if the rock is not there.
TRANSFER FUNDS
April 11, 2005
Does anyone really believe wenger will get 40m sovs to spend in the summer ???
Rich
April 11, 2005
Matthew Wade, that is my point exactly - all the players you named were English, and all given the "next whoever" treatment by the press. I don't begrudge the lad his dream day, just saying that the press are completely over the top with any young English talent when there are young foreigners 10 times better. (many at Arsenal!)
Bernard
April 11, 2005
See with David Barnes we're still getting people wanting Toure to be played at right back. Me and others have said many times, why? I fully agree with Alex, he just doesn't look like a decent right back to me and I'm really struggling to think of that many games where he's played well in the position.
Rich
April 11, 2005
I think that Wenger should bring in a new CB in the summer, Cygan seems 4th choice now so wudn't be surprised to see him leave. Whoever we bring in I doubt any of them will be a 'superstar' its simply not AW's style. It may be that Toure becomes much more of our utility player, which is unfortunate for him. He's one player that is easy to like, and lets not forget that he is still young and can improve at CB. He seems a popular bloke at the club and willing to learn, I just think that with another CB in the summer he could become cover for all the defence and CM....still not bad cover to have! Edu and Pennant seem certain to leave, not sure if we need a 5th CM, wenger was talking about getting one if Edu left in Jan but don't know if that was just beacuse of Gilberto's injury? If they were the only exits then 3 signings would suffice for me. A GK is the priority, CB and Right mid or Striker....maybe make that 4 signings if im greedy then. With Pennant off Right-Mid is lacking, we have Bentley back next seaon but i fear he may go the way of Pennant, and a would like a striker to give us options in tight games. I know players I'd like to see at THOF but realsitic targets are less clear. Owen? I can see, with a main striker who plays with his back to goal or on the shoulder of the defence TH14 may well move into more of the DB10 role as the 2nd striker. I quite like the idea of Owen, but only if the price is right.
Matthew Wade
April 11, 2005
Jesus there's some miserable so and so's on here......With the young everton lad, of course is being blown out of proportion, but it is the story of the week, even more so than norwich, because he has set a new record for the Premier League (note not top flight), and the youngest ever for his club, on his debut, having only ben on a few minutes. As the phrase goes it is roy of the rovers stuff, and good luck to him. As for Cademanteri, his problem is that he never got better than when he was 17....but he did look very promising. After all, when bentley scored agains sunderland, everyone was saying he was the new bergkamp, and I remember even David Hillier getting 'bigged up' and i always thought he was piss-poor.....
should arsenal
April 11, 2005
Bring back upson if possible ?
Cannon Balls
April 11, 2005
Mee,on what evidence do you base your second season's syndrome on???. Or does it just exist in your imagination, because i have no knowledge of it. Toures poor season is in the main due to Cambells form, with him never having been fit, Toure was finding himself more exposed with Gilberto also absent and when called on to hold the defense together was not up to doing it.The intoduction of a real CB ,Senderos showed this and that display away in Munich by Toure was the worst that i have ever seen from an Arsenal CB since the 6-1 defeat at OT. The truth is that Kolo was never a good header of the ball in his first season, Cambell and Gilberto covered that aspect in the 49 unbeaten run, and also Toures positional sense was not good then and is not now that great either.He is very athletic a goood tackler and gives his all. But your portrayal of him having been a good CB in his first season and now suffering a blip is flawed.
Hedges
April 11, 2005
Mee - totally agree on RvP. Im not impressed by him yet..
Mee
April 11, 2005
Hedges: I don’t think the second year syndrome will apply to Cesc - he has too much quality, or Flamini, who has the type of game which is more easily reproduced than a more intuitive ‘touch’ player. RVP has a lot to prove and his second year syndrome seems to have happened in his first year!
Hedges
April 11, 2005
I read that Wenger will buy 3 players this Summer, 1 huge star and 2 other signings. I fear that this will be the case, and knowing Wenger he wont buy big but i feel we really need more than 3 players. This year showed we lacked depth, and yes if everyone stays fit we only need 1 or 2 more but injuries happen and we seriously lack the depth than Chavs and mancs have. I love the young boys coming through but they cant do it all the time, and if Fabregas/Flamini/RvP go through the second year syndrome that Toure did, and if we only buy 3 players then we r screwed if that happens.
Alan Hedges
April 11, 2005
Click End Clive / Mee - Whilst I do believe King is a very good centre back I didn't mean him to be the only example of the centre back we need. Just thought he was a good eg of whether we need a young established CB or we should get an experienced one to interchange with Senderos. Also, Sol is getting on in age I feel so maybe in 2 years time we'll need another CB to play for him.
Mee
April 11, 2005
Rich: The MOTD hype given to Vaughan’s goal was indicative of their need to create haeadlines where none exist. The facts show he was the PL youngest ever scorer but there simply wasn’t enough evidence to base any sort of judgement about his current standing or future development. Everton seem to make a habit of this, probably because of a dearth of talent at the club - wasn’t Danny Cadamartri (spelling) lauded as the new Michael Owen? I think Danny now plays in the lower leagues.
Rich
April 11, 2005
Anyone notice the madia drooling over the Everton lad who scored on his debut and became the Prem's youngest goalscorer with it? Vaughen I think his name is. Already saying the next Rooney and the two of them could play for England together, makes you wonder what the English media would say about Fabregas if he were English too? Afterall he's only a year older than this lad, made his debut in the Champions team at 16 and has many fans calling for him to be first choice in Central Midfield, a posisiton I always manitain is the hardest for a young player to bresk in to. Would love to see Fabregas get the Young Player of the Year award, but it is quite nice that he doesn't have so much hype around him (as other young english lads do)
Alex
April 11, 2005
Toure is NOT a RB. He is not a threat going forward, he can't cross, and his technique is not good enough. Eboue much better suited, could almost be a right winger. Toure looks out of sorts at RB because he can't play there, not because he does not want to. He has CB written all over him, he's just having a 'difficult second season'(he's also missing Keown I suspect). If he is just as jittery next season I'll join the 'we need another CB' campaign, but until then, leave him alone.
Mee
April 11, 2005
Dormouse: I would love to see Totti at Highbury, but think its unrealistic, he will probably move within Italy. Looking at the Totti link someone posted yesterday, gives an indication of his class. With that sort of talent I’d put up with the occasional red card.
Dormouse
April 11, 2005
Mee - I basically agree that Totti is unlikely to leave Rome & Italy, but things are definitely not happy there at the moment & he may well leave if they don't sort out a manager & other players to his satisfaction. We could also do with another top striker.
Cannon Balls
April 11, 2005
For me the partner for Henry up front is the main con cern for next season - Denis should retire at the end of this one, is non-flying phobia always a cause of irratation to Wenger because of the problems it causes in our CL ties away, and one though not all of the reasons for our under-achievment in the competition. Taking account of that plus his age Wenger needs to be firm with Denis and say non to any offer from him to continue next season. He is a legend and not just at Highbury i would hate to see him spoil his image by hanging about past his sell by date. The last CL match at home against BM showed that the writing was on the wall in that regard.And I am not happy with Reyes who despite the spin that Wenger eloquently put's on it really wants to return to Spain to play for Real Madrid, the only snag being that they don't want him, perhaps they know something that we don't?. Can RVP be the partner for Henry?, well unless he get's a run of games we will never find out. Reyes looks no more likely to fill that role than when he first arrived at Highbury. Owen was at it again scoring for RM last night and it looks like he will be coming back to England but the swap for Reyes rumour is just paella in the sky - Liverpool or Manure are more likely destinations for Mikey with that pair slugging it out for him. Ferguson will be desperate, if still at Manure next season, to get a top striker in with RVN looking well knackered and on his way out of OT. Like the Queen said to Camilla the new Duchess of Farts after she had tied the knot with Chas: "Welcome to the unsaddling encloser".
Mee
April 11, 2005
The specualtion concerning Totti is irrelevant. He is revered in Rome, if not as god then certainly up there with the pope. He was born in Rome, has family there, his children go to school in Rome, he loves the lifestyle, the weather and his fellow romans. Is he really likely to swap that for Broxbourne?
goonerguru
April 11, 2005
Thanks Dormouse,now I think about it you must be right,that makes much more sense.
Dormouse
April 11, 2005
goonerguru - I don't think that a losing semi-finalist will go into Europe. It will be an extra place for the PL.
goonerguru
April 11, 2005
If we and MU get through to the FA cup final next week,or should I say when,would that mean one of the losing semi finalists going into the UEFA Cup next season,I've known losing finalists playing in Europe before but can't recall losing semi finalists being in.
Dormouse
April 11, 2005
Totti this season - 30 appearances for Roma, 14 goals, 12 yellow cards, 1 red card. Ferguson - 4 appearances for Everton (+6 as sub), 6 goals, 2 yellows, 1 red. Shearer - 33 appearances (+1 sub), 19 goals, 1 yellow, 0 reds. Yakubu - 29 appearances (+ 3 subs), 15 goals, 2 yellows, 0 reds. Henry - 41 appearances, 30 goals, 3 yellows, 0 reds; RvP - 13 appearances (+20 subs) - 6 goals, 4 yellows & 1 red. &, just for Bernard, Freddie - 33 appearances (+2 sub), 14 goals, 3 yellows, 0 reds. I wouldn't argue with Totti's ability but don't think it's enough to justify the number of cards he's likely to get (though maybe he'd get away with more in the PL).
Cannon Balls
April 11, 2005
It seems that the long-ball merchants taunts are striking a raw neve with the Chavs. Ex-show-pony Joe Cole is fuming about them, according to him the fact that they punt long balls up to Drogba is just because Drogba is there, so says Joe: "why not use him" ?.It worked against the Germans because we scored four goals Joe goes on, although he fails to mention that his own one came courtesy of a fluke deflection, one of many that he's scored this season.This prognastication of JC's that the long-ball game is not intentional is surpising to learn for anyone who has watched Chelsea this season and they were at it again against Birmingham wholet's face it are hardly one of Europes top sides. Drogba is not hanging about up front for the fun of it, and to suggest that there is no tactical plan from Mourinho to hoof long balls up-field towards him is like John Terry would say: "Taking the p**s!".
DAVID BARNES
April 11, 2005
Gk????HARD ONE, Toure convert him to rightback he can play rightback he just doesnt want to!CONVERT HIM, Campbell is one of the best defenders in the world needs to stay injury free, Sendoros if he continues in this form will be outstanding for Arsenal, Cole will he be at Arsenal next season? DOUBT IT, Cesc convert him to a right winger now!, Pat V have we seen the best of him???? I DON'T THINK SO , Gilberto our Makakele!!, Reyes? If he stays(PLEASE GOD!) and finds his form again he will be the best in that position in the world SIMPLE AS THAT, Totti? don't know him that well was really good a few seasons ago but has a worst temper than Van Persie, Henry?? one of the top 20 footballers in the world EVER IMO.
Dormouse
April 11, 2005
DaveM - If Djourou is really as good as you think, then I would agree that we don't need to buy another CB unless AW thinks that Campbell will miss as many games as this season. I don't agree with Alan Hedges idea that a top older player should be bought because they'd be happy to be on the bench sometimes. At that stage of their careers players tend not to be on the bench unless they are getting injured or realise that they aren't as good as they used to be. And they don't feel that they have anything to lose by insisting on what they want.
Dormouse
April 11, 2005
I never really bought the idea that Chelski will manipulate things by buying players and loaning them out. But, I did notice that the points dropped by Chelski & Manure on Saturday were courtesy of deadball passes from Arsenal players on loan. Now, how many goals have we got like that this season ...?
Juliano
April 11, 2005
We shouldn't look at Chelsea. This is true that there is still a small possibility that they may collapse big time, but it is really remote and the team needs focusing on securing that second spot. We're only 3 points ahead of Man Utd, and we can't afford to drop any more points, so we have to go at Stamford Bridge to win, not because it may burst the rentboys' bubble, but because we've got MU on our heels. That would be nice to put a couple past them, just to prove we're still defending champions. Having said that, if they are to break down then it would be better for us for them to qualify past Bayern Munich, and to be beaten by AC Milan afterwards of course, with lots of nerve wrenching games. Ideally, a 4-2 Bayern win ending on pens, and two stamina consuming foughts against Milan! Our team shouldn't focus on them, but as long as it's not over, let's keep playing, and we've got a reason to keep on playing, namely MU.
Mee
April 11, 2005
Clock End/Alan Hedges: There is an asumption that King would willingly leave Spurs if we should nod at him. Do we know this to be true - I think King is commited to Spurs, and an EUFA place for them now looks probable.
clock end clive
April 11, 2005
Alan Hedges - like your idea of an experienced defender but how do you reach the conclusion that King is a great defender? Great in my book is Adams, Bould, Nesta, Maldini, Desailly - in my view King is no better than Senderos and seriously overrated at this stage of his career.
Alex
April 11, 2005
DaveM- Because we have four so attacking players, you can't also have another attacking midfielder, especially when the full backs are always racing forward. The 2 CB and 2 CM have to stabilize the team. Viera is still a creative player, though his passing has not been good, against Bayern in was terrible. Bernard- Quincy is mainly used on the left, but with Reyes staying the only real opening is on the right, and he could do a fine job in any attacking position. On his PL debut, much of his best work was on the right (playing a perfectly weighted ball for Lauren to cut back to Henry-Goal!. Decaf- We don't expect them to lie back and admire, we expect them to learn how to play better football, instead of try and kick and thump their way out of trouble, which doesn't work very often anyway! Everton are an exception because of the situation they were in, which is why many are rooting for them. Their play is also not that bad to watch, and with the exception of Big Dunc, they are not thugs like Bolton. Agree that Barcelona's defending was (and always is?) poor, but with more teams in La Liga trying to play on the ground more, there is also more competition.
Alan Hedges
April 11, 2005
I can't help but agree with a blog site I saw that the best way to buy for defence this summer for central defense would be to buy an experienced player over 30 such as Kuffour or Southgate so that Senderos isn't pushed too far behind the pecking order as someone 30+ would be willing to sit on the bench sometimes and then when they go Senderos would be ready to fulfil his role. What do you all think or would a great player like King be more beneficial?
Decaf
April 11, 2005
PS Chocolate 'the Kant' Gooner, please can you explain to me where practical reason fits into everything? If you think that Kant saw antitheses only as an "infallible sign of metaphysical illusion" how do you explain this passage (from the same section that Copper kindly referred you to last week and which I have taken the trouble to peruse)?: "As to the second (dynamical) class of antimonies, the falsehood of the presupposition consists in representing as contradictory what is compatible; so that while in the former case the opposed assertions were both false, in this case, on the other hand, where they are opposed to one another by mere misunderstanding, they may both be so". However, if google or chocolate gooner or Bayern L*Te say otherwise naturally I will concede that my source is well and truly trumped.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 11, 2005
'The referees decissions always go for the bigger sides'. Delia Smith interviewed on MotD. Now she may be a bit of a joke (especially as she used to claim to be an Ipswich fan...) but she is a club chairman. Since rules are rules and we know how the FA sitck to them I'll expect her to receive a charge of bringing the game into disripute.
Decaf
April 11, 2005
We must hope, Exiled. The prospect of those disgraceful cheats and wellington boot specialists doing the double is just too sickening. *** Unfortunately, we have only ourselves to blame for the proliferation of 4-5-1 in the EPL this season. Were other team supposed to just sit back admiringly and watch us making them look silly and winning the title by 20 points? On that note, I can't understand American Gooner's admiration for Everton. At least Liverpool's long ball game is based on Gerrard hitting great passes. They do play a game that passes for football.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 11, 2005
If Bayern beat the chavs the title could be up for grabs. Let's be honest, we've beaten them often enough before and if we do then they'll need 8 points from 5 games. Two London derbies at home (Charlton and Fulham - but derbies can be funny old things) and away trips to Bolton, Mancs and (their banker) St James'. Maybe it's all those years thinking Neill might bring us a title (I was younger) but I refuse to believe it's over til it is, actually, over. Blind optimism, maybe (and I do realise we can't afford to drop any, but we are The Arsenal so anything is possible), but while it's still available we've got to go for it.
Decaf
April 11, 2005
E*G yes, Fred! Just look at Italy, were teams are always blowing 9 point leads. Why shouldn't Chelsea blow an 8 point lead? I have a feeling that they are going to blow their CL semi. We should get Totti and win the CL next season too. Imagine Totti and Henry in the same team.
Decaf
April 11, 2005
OK, I can't pretent to be Charles III. In any case, I have a feeling that the newt-hunting season has started in the remoter areas of Bulgaria, so I have stuck to my promise of staying away until the new(t) season.
Fred
April 11, 2005
Does anyone here think we can still win the title if we beat Chelsea?
Charles III
April 11, 2005
Your error, David M, is in thinking that Ljungberg is the kind of player who dominates single-handedly. Ljungberg is at his best at the beginning of a game when the likes of Henry, Bergy, Pires and co. are fizzing and he gives us an extra dimension with his acceleration and intelligent runs. Fred needs to feed off this. He doesn't make it happen, although obviously he can make it more potent. What usually happens in Europe is that we run out of ideas (sometimes we don't have any to begin with), and sending on yet another player who is going to pass to the opposition or, if you are lucky, backwards to Lauren seems somewhat unpromising. When we go flat like this van Persie should come on. Fat chance!
Charles III
April 11, 2005
Your error, David M, is in thinking that Ljungberg is the kind of player who dominates single-handedly. Ljungberg is at his best at the beginning of a game when the likes of Henry, Bergy, Pires and co. are fizzing and he gives us an extra dimension with his acceleration and intelligent runs. Fred needs to feed off this. He doesn't make it happen, although obviously he can make it more potent. What usually happens in Europe is that we run out of ideas (sometimes we don't have any to begin with), and sending on yet another player who is going to pass to the opposition or, if you are lucky, backwards to Lauren seems somewhat unpromising. When we go flat like this van Persie should come on. Fat chance!
Sabir
April 11, 2005
The Madrid game was fantastic, but just how rubbish were the defences? I definitely want to see Everton pip Liverpool to 4th spot. OK they don't play great football but then they've not exactly spent much have they. Moyes is getting the most he can with what he has at his disposal.. Chelsea have no excuses.
Rich
April 11, 2005
Talking about playing the game the way it was meant to be played. I've just watched Real v Barca, both teams intent on attacking and attacking with quick passing moves with the ball on the floor. It was a fantastic game. I used to be of the opinion that the Preemiership was the most exicting, if not technically the best league in the World, but having watched a fair bit of la liga this season and the re-introduction of the long ball and new 4-5-1 here I've definately changed my mind.
old man of hoy
April 11, 2005
Real leading Barca 3-1. Spurs beat Toon 1-0. Bob to get another year on his contract - will that be enough to keep him at Highbury though? Tiger cruising the Masters.
A man is browsing in a pet shop and sees a parrot sitting on a little perch. It doesn't have any feet or legs. The guy says aloud, "Jees! I wonder what happened to this parrot?"
The parrot says, "I was born this way. I'm a defective parrot."
"Holy cow!" the man replies. "You actually understood and answered me!"
"I got every word," says the parrot. "I happen to be highly intelligent and thoroughly educated."
"Oh yeah?" the man asks. "Then how do you hang onto your perch without any feet?"
"Well," the parrot says, "this is very embarrassing, but since you asked, I wrap my penis around this wooden bar like a little hook. You can't see it because of my feathers."
"Wow!" says the guy. "You really can understand and speak very good English!"
"Actually, I speak both Spanish and English and I can converse with reasonable competence on almost any topic: politics, religion, sports, physics, philosophy. I am especially good at ornithology. You really ought to buy me. I'd be a great companion."
The man looks at the $200 price tag. "Sorry, but I just can't afford that."
"Pssssssst!" says the parrot. "I'm defective, so the truth is, nobody wants me cause I don't have any feet. You can probably get me for $20. Just make the guy an offer."
The man offers $20 and walks out with the parrot.
Weeks go by. The parrot is sensational. He has a great sense of humor, is interesting, a great pal, understands everything, sympathizes, and is very insightful. The man is delighted.
One day the guy comes home from work and the parrot goes, "Pssssssssst!" and motions him over with one wing. "I don't know if I should tell you this or not, but it's about your wife and the postman."
"What are you talking about?" asks the man.
"When the postman delivered today, your wife greeted him at the door in a sheer black nighty and kissed him passionately on the lips."
"WHAT???" The man asks incredulously. "What happened after that?"
"Well, then the postman came into the house and slipped his hands under her nightie and began touching her all over her body," reported the parrot.
"My God!" the man exclaims. "Then what?"
"Then, he lifted up the nighty, got down on his knees and began to lick her all over, starting with her breasts and slowly going down..."
"WELL???" demands the frantic man. "THEN, what happened?"
"Damned if I know. I got an erection and fell off my perch!"
old man of hoy
April 11, 2005
I have been to quite a lot of semi-finals with Gunners and generally they are good matches - Boro a few years ago was not. Best for me was beating Spurs 2-1 at Old Trafford after being behind - Vieira was brilliant that day. I bought a terrific photo from the guys outside Highbury - picture of the crowd behind the goal as Bob hits the winner. They are ecstatic and there is a young lad with a smile on his face as wide as Lampard's arse - magic.
A mortician was working late one night. It was his job to examine the dead bodies before they were sent off to be buried or cremated. As he examined the body of Mr. Schwartz, who was about to be cremated, he made an amazing discovery: Schwartz had the longest penis he had ever seen!
"I'm sorry Mr. Schwartz," said the mortician, "But I can't send you off to be cremated with a tremendously huge penis like this. It has to be saved for posterity."
And with that the coroner used his tools to remove the dead man's schlong.
The coroner stuffed his prize into a briefcase and took it home.
The first person he showed was his wife. "I have something to show you that you won't believe," he said, and opened his briefcase.
"Oh my god!" she screamed, "Schwartz is dead!"
Steve Martin
April 11, 2005
Sorry about the spelling today, not using Word to compile my posts and two bottles of red, wahsed down with Tiger beer, the big bottles, not helping, no doubt a bollocking coming up from said Doctor, for my habits over the weekend... However, you've got to live, have you not, otherwise you may as well watch Chelsea...
Steve Martin
April 11, 2005
American, I see where your coming from with regards to Everton, hoiwever I think they are one of the main reasosn that the premeirship is so crap this season... They have taken on the Greece, Porto stance and play defensive football... Perhaps with a more attacking style premeirship we would have won back to back titles... Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool being the long ball experts... Who would ahve thought a few years back, Arsenal would be the style guru's of the football world, we play the game the weay it should be played, thnak god for that...
AmericanGooner
April 11, 2005
I'm cheering for Everton to get the 4th spot. They have grinded out results all year with no stars, little flair, just workmanlike results. A bit old school 'British' if you will. Admirable. **** I am also hoping we get 3 players in the top 5 scorers by season's end. That would mean Freddie needs a few more goals as well as Bobby. **** Hoping for an easy game v. Blackburn in the FA cup. Hughes will play us hard, with tackles flying and we could lose some players to injury for the Chelsea game. Hoping we score a couple early and kill the game off. Fingers crossed.
old man of hoy
April 11, 2005
Good to see Everton ahead of Liverpool but a shame about Palace. A politician, a clergyman and a Boy Scout were passengers in a small plane that developed engine trouble. The pilot announced, "We are going to have to jump. Unfortunately there are only three parachutes. I have a wife and eight small children. My family needs me. I take one of the parachutes and jump out!"
And sure enough, he jumped.
Then the politician declared, "Since I'm the smartest politician in the world, my country needs me. So I'm sorry but I'm taking one of the parachutes." And sure enough, he bailed out.
The clergyman said to the Boy Scout, "Son, I've had a great life, and yours is still ahead of you. You can take the last parachute."
The youngster shrugged and replied, "I don't need to, there are two parachutes left....the smartest politician in the world jumped with my backpack."
Steve Martin
April 11, 2005
Now I cannot talk for all of you out there, however this is the way I see Arsenal… All my life I have supported them, my dad always used to say to me, I kid you not! “Son, once an Arsenal fan, always an Arsenal fan” He was dead right… They have a way of doing things, by the book if you like… But from the board down to the tea lady, it seems to work, apart from a few occasions… Right now, I have never felt more comfortable with the Club, which I support, they feel me with confidence… We have players like Henry, Bergkamp and Vieira who have been at the club long periods and seem not to want to leave, we have had Adams, Winterburn, Bould, Dixon, Seaman, Parlour who have played hundreds of games for the Arsenal and were proud to be part of the club… Now we have Arsene Wenger, a man that has the right stuff to take us forward to even bigger on a bigger stage Ashburton Grove… The youth at the club looks fantastic and the future as bright as I have ever known it… Right now, I’m looking forward to another Cup Final another season (our 8th in succession) in the top two and another shot at the Champs League next year…
old man of hoy
April 11, 2005
Totti is a god in Rome - it would be marvellous to have him as an Arsenal player but i can't see him leaving. Remember when he got sent off aginst us at Highbury? Keown worked him over and amazingly he fellfor it and lost his cool.
An old man was on the beach and walked up to a beautiful girl in a bikini,
"I want to feel your breasts," he exclaimed.
"Get away from me, you crazy old man," she replied.
"I want to feel your breasts, I will give you twenty dollars," he says.
"Twenty dollars, are you nuts!? Get away from me!"
"I want to feel your breasts, I will give you ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS" he says.
"NO! Get away from me!"
"TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS" he says.
She pauses to think about it, but then comes to her senses & says, "I said NO!"
"FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS if you let me feel your breasts," he says.
She thinks, well he is old, and he seems harmless enough...and five hundred dollars IS a lot of money...."Well, OK...but only for a minute," she says.
She loosens her bikini top and while both are standing there on the beach, he slides his hands underneath and begins to feel...and then he starts saying OH MY GOD...OH MY GOD...while he is caressing them. So out of curiosity, she asks him "Why do you keep saying 'Oh my god'?"
While continuing to feel her breasts he answers "OH MY GOD...OH MY GOD...where am I ever going to get five hundred dollars?"
Steve Martin
April 11, 2005
Hong Kong, on Sky they did mention it and said that with his booking at the end of the first half he should have been sent off...
AmericanGooner
soi_eight@yahoo.com
April 11, 2005
One of the rare Arsenal games that wasn't broadcast here. Only got the chance to see highlights of the game. Read the text live commentary. Seems it was a tough game. **** Its apparant that Chelsea and Man Yoo don't have much past their first choice XI. Its also apparant that we have the brightest future in terms of youth. These kids have beaten Man City (are you happy now Bernard ;-) ..lol..and Everton and if it weren't for an early gaffe, who knows how the league cup game v. Man Yoo would have turned out. I'd take our kids over Chelsea's international bench warmers like Geremi or Man Yoo's Fletcher any day of the week and twice on Sunday.**** N5er, thank you very much for that information. It was most helpful and very interesting. It would be great if someone wrote a book about the families that own Arsenal. **** I am not holding much hope of catching Chelsea. I think it would go a long way if we scared them and made it a lot closer. It would take a lot of the aura and lustre they have gained over the course of this season (deservedly earned). It would also take a little off the gloss off their title and an Arsenal v. Man Yoo final in the FA cup would be the main thing the back pages would be talking about. Going on a run now would help get us some confidence going into the summer and next season and remind everyone Arsenal are still and always be relevant. **** We had the Man Yoo game here and their starting XI told me they had no respect for Norwich. They took the game like it was a FA cup tie at Hull City and fielded what they thought was just enough to win the game. It also proves you can take nothing for granted in the league. The clubs that are there, even the bottom dwellers, earned the right to be in the league and can beat anyone, any time. Two years running now (Wolves last season, NCFC this season) Man Yoo lose to the last place club. **** American Eagle, your post I commented on had nothing to do with football. What was the reason for it? One can only assume it was to start trouble. If you're a reader of this fourm, you'll be aware that I have tried to stay away from blatant nationalism and some times this board has degenerated into a mess of political diatribe. I wouldn't want to revisit those times again. There is a time and place to talk politics, relgion or whatever. Each forum has its own culture. I'm just asking to respect this one. And if we have an acquaintance, so what? As for being glib or loud-mouthed, and not impressing folks, you've obviously not read this forum for a while. I've always stated that I'm opinionated, long-winded, and even boring in style. Other posters know that and has acknowledged it. No crime in that. I'm being myself and that's all I can be. And I've always acknowledged that I am still learning. I comment on what I think I know, just like others. Thanks Eskimo. Also, AE, my e mail address is here for any discussion outside this forum.
Nico
April 11, 2005
Good afternoon all; well, wasn't yesterday an excellent day for us? I enjoyed it no end. I have a couple of points to note. 1. With reference to our win at Boro, did anyone notice the BBC's own statistic (as witnessed on the MOTD underbar while Schmeichel and Lawrenson were prattling away about what must have been a different game) that we had 64% of the ball?? Yet the pundits preferred to concentrate on Boro's bad luck about which there was very little evidence, at least during the slim highlights reserved for the end of the programme, and Lauren's tackle. 2. On Chelsea's finances, I believe their cost increases (and hence their losses) are destined to be continuous and unstoppable while Mr Bottomless Pit continues to preside. We read today that Mourinho is getting a multiple of his current deal (up to £6m p.a plus bonuses) to keep him from looking over the fence at Madrid. Tomorrow, though, it will be Kenyon. Then Gerrard or Adriano will come in on more than Lampard. So Lampard will get yet another raise to match him. Followed by Terry (again). Then another and another. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And the system there (or lack of it) has in my opinion already started to do just that, ie crumble under its own unsustainable burdens. The more Abramovich is forced to fork out, the more pressure he will unwittingly be placing on the eleven on the field of play at any one time, the expensive subs on the bench, the ludicrously overpaid coaching staff and discipline, order and morale on the training ground and dressing room and on his own board to deliver the undeliverable. As for what is owed to him in terms of his recorded loans to the Club, this will carry on spiralling, and will never be paid back. To expect the contrary, let alone the pipedream of a return on this kind of 'investment', you need to imagine football media rights and revenues from fans and sponsors growing exponentially (as opposed to the continuous decline they've been undergoing for some years now). In other words you have to be kidding himself......or allowing yourself to be mesmerised into such dreams by an obsequious group of expensive retainers. Cloudcuckooland or Disneyland? It's back to hibernation for me! Have a nice week.
Hong Kong Gooner
April 11, 2005
I thought we dominated a pretty negative 'boro side for long spells without really looking like scoring.Prior to JFH's miss all they'd offered were a couple of Downing runs past a hapless Lauren and for most of the game 'boro just sat back and allowed us to keep possession.Bob's fortuituous break for the goal was deserved in my view as at least we tried to go forward and play a bit of football.Senderos was magnificent again but I feel that at this stage in his career he is overdoing it a bit when on the ball and this almost led to a goal.Pat's decent performance slightly tarnished by his increasing tendency to give away possession then amble back into a defensive position.Most of the others were OK and anonymous in equal measure.I take it that Quedrue's nasty tackle on Jose a few minutes after Lauren's booking was not shown on MOTD, how he was not booked only the ref can explain.
Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 11, 2005
Just a quick post on some transfer speculation I've seen today. Now I unashamidly admit I've got both these stories from Arsenal-world (and ANR), and we're all probably adding two and two and making five, but who knows, and after seeing the second link he would make the perfect replacement for DB10. Now theres two links and its best to see them in this order: 1. http://www.anr.uk.com/articles/m-2005-04-10-12-12-09.html 2. http://www.107voltetotti.com/home.php Even if we dont sign him (which we probably wont) you can at least enjoy some great goals. Come on Arsenal.
Brazil 70
April 11, 2005
Did not see the game yesterday but press reports indicate we were not at our best.I would be interested to hear whether this was connected with Vieira's return & whether he contributed positevely or negatively?
Arsène Wenger
April 11, 2005
stated his unhappiness at the decision to change the fixture between leaders Chelsea and Manchester United. The Premier League decided to change the fixture due to United's involvement in the FA Cup.
"If Chelsea did lose to Manchester United next weekend, the Championship wouldn't be completely over," said Wenger.
"The fact that they now play Chelsea in the last week of the season when Chelsea will already be champions is not right.
"There would be more interest at the end of the season if the fixtures had not been changed. It's not Chelsea's fault, but the break is welcome for them.
"I think that, once the fixtures are set, they shouldn't be changed because of the FA Cup - and I've said that for many years," added Wenger.
Sabir
April 11, 2005
I think Quincy would be better on the left cutting in. But we've got nothing to lose trying him out on the right. During our double year in '98, before our game against Derby in the run-in to the title, I met Brooking outside Highbury - he was doing some work for Radio 5. Thoroughly nice chap! I remember he said that he really wanted us to get the title as it was getting a bit monotonous with Utd having no-one challenge them. One of my good mates is a Hammer and he really wanted Brooking to get their manager's job. Btw, he tells me that there's a big rumour going round that Hoddle might replace Pardew. Wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy...
Bernard
April 10, 2005
Surprised a few people are suggesting Quincy for the right (although I wouldn't argue with an idea that he might be preferable to Ljungberg there). But I thought he was supposed to be a predominantly left sided player, although I accept I may be mistaken on that.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
On Fergusons rotation policy i noted,indeed it would be difficult not too,that it does not work; and when we played our young players this season they have done well in all compwetitions. On the other hand Ferguson when he does like wise they flop big-time. Palace and Norwich being two recent examples of this showing that his squad once you get past the first 13 is not very good. He obviously also must know that some of the older experienced players that he brought in are not good enough either, Smith, Saha, Kleberson, etc. It's amusing when you see him start with his 'big time' players sitting on the bench and he sits, or stands more these days watching in anticipation that the players who he has replaced them with will knock over the modest opponents placed before his team like sacrificial lambs. His anger and frustration when the expected slaughter fails to materialize is amusing to behold and inevitably he is forced to send on Horseface ,Rooney and co to try and retrieve the situation. I thought he was going to implode at the end of the Nowich game, after Manure were well beaten such was the rage that he was in. His refusal to speak to the media even the sychophantic MUTV though does his talking for him.
DaveM
April 10, 2005
Alex, I don't think Vieira is creative. I think he thinks he needs to be, which is why his passing seems to have deteriorated because he's over-ambitious. Occasionally he slides a nice ball down the channels, but our success in recent years has been based on Henry, Pires and Bergkamp creating the chances. Again, we'll get to test this because Vieira and Gilberto will start pretty much every game between now and the end of the season.
DaveM
April 10, 2005
Decaf, I'd use Ljungberg as an impact player at the end of games rather than the beginning. In the last 20 minutes, when the oppsition are tiring and the game s starting to open up is when I think a 'free' player like Ljungberg can be most effective. American, Ljungberg does try hard, but physically he isn't up to it. Against good sides he often disappears because he can't win 50-50's and shoulder to shoulders. He's got good acceleration, but he isn't fast enough to actually run a player. In any case, we'll get to test this one as he'll start against Chelsea. Here he'll be in a midfield 4 for us, and he'll have to do a decent job as a midfielder. The odd decent run into the box isn't enough in games like the Chelsea one. Ljungberg is a reasonable player, with a good attitude who does one thing very well indeed. The problem is Wenger wants him to play in a four man midfield, and against good sides Ljungberg has to do a proper midfield job rather than being essentially a free player who can just drift into space. We're pretty much unique in this country in that we'll play anyone with four in midfield. We need four good midfielders to beat good sides. I just don't think Ljungberg is a midfielder, let alone a good one.
North Bank Mural
April 10, 2005
Had a washday disaster, if you see someone in an orange and white, tie dye looking, 70/71 shirt next Saturday then it could well be Mr Mural! Can't bear to bin it or buy another so see you in the upper tier! Anyone recommend a decent hotel in Cardiff?
Alex
April 10, 2005
DaveM- Totally agree about Lauren, but calling Viera 'uncreative' is a bit harsh. Gilberto allows him to play with more freedom. Experience will be needed against Blackburn, but it won't be a problem.
Alex
April 10, 2005
Marit Izmailov linked to Arsenal in papers today. Know anything about him? Is it all likely? Wenger often goes for players who impress against his own teams, and I think he's one of them.
DaveM
April 10, 2005
Yesterday was great, a day where I could watch every game on Match of the Day. Chelsea's run in is reasonably tricky, and if we could beat them then it could get potentially interesting. However, Chelsea don't look like they're mentally weak to me, and if did go down to the wire I think we're more likely to choke than they are. In any case, I don't think we'll beat them with the following side: Lehmann, Lauren, Senderos, Campbell, Cole, Ljungberg, Gilberto, Vieira, Reyes, Bergkamp, Henry. I think this side will play (apart from Senderos, for whom Wenger deserves credit, I would have predicted this side 14 months ago, just showing that form is nothing like as important as who you are at Arsenal). The side is full of good headers, which might negative Chelsea's long ball approach (I totally agree with the criticism of their 'style' of play), but Gilberto and Vieira aren't a good combination because they aren't very creative, and with only one tackler in midfield away to Chelsea we're not likely to have that much possession anyway. Then our run in is tricky, with Spurs, Liverpool, and Everton, so at the moment I'm far from confident we'll get second place (although ManU are looking awful). I'm also worried about next Saturday. Blackburn are playing well, they'll have five in midfield and they'll be extremely committed. Again I worry about our midfield against a side like that. Wenger always moans that the FA cup causes us problems in other competitions, so he should really use the squad a bit in the game, with players like Eboue, Cesc, Flamini, Van Persie, Quincy and Alidiere being involved. However, Bergkamp tends to need to play himself into form, and Henry is a rubbish substitute, so I expect it will be a very familar side which takes the pitch. If Ferguson had assembled a squad as good as Wenger's then his rotation policy would actually work. Lauren is surely unique as an Arsenal player who should actually be sent off more often than he is. He's a disaster waiting to happen, and he must be sold this summer.
Alex
April 10, 2005
If there are any fellow nocturnal animals on here, you might want to check out C4 at 2:15am. Nantes vs Lyon. Essien and Toulanlan go head to head.
Alex
April 10, 2005
Revised transfer speculation. Definite outs: Pennant, Edu, Cygan (not going to put up with being behind Campbell & Senderos), and Taylor. Don't think Pennant neads replacing. If Wenger is really going to give Bentley and Quincy a chance, he can not bring in another young right sided player. Lauren needs to go (for being such a nasty player apart from anything else), but he won't, so lets hope Eboue takes a more prominent place next season. Toure needs more competition. Will Djourou provide that? Wenger rates him highly. If not, I can't see anyone who could come in without replacing Toure, which I think would be a shame. Is four players fighting for places in the middle enough? Another player could dishearten Fab and Flam. If 5 is needed, Hleb, Toulanlan, or Mascherano would be excellent. Rosicky is very attack minded, and this season we haved missed a gilberto player most of all (also they want 10M). As for the forwards, I don't think anyone is needed. Plenty of quality competition already there. Look at the stats. Scoring was not our problem in Europe. Last of all 'Keepers. Please Wenger let Lehmann leave. My heart can't take his flights of lunacy. Proto and Broch rumours had some weight to them, but anyone quality will do (Frey looks like a bit of a twat to me). What will Wenger do about Taylor? Bring another young player forward? They all seem a bit too young to me. Will we see two keepers arrive? Almunia is not going anywhere, Wenger would not do that to a player, and there seem to be a few Almunia fans on here anyway. Hope Aliadiere dosn't leave (I think he owes us 1 season of fittness), but if he does I don't think Wenger will find it too hard to find another promising young forward. Niang (25) looked good for Strasbourg. Recap: at least 1 GK, possibly 1 CB, and possibly 1 MF. Can also expect a few for the youth academy.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Sabir,Brooking is now an offical at the FA in some capacity so i guess that this prohibits him from giving his unbiased opinions on MOTD!. Years ago i was at the Odeon cinema in Barnet the day before England played the Republic of Ireland at Wembley and the England team were staying near by at Bispham Abbey to my surprise i found them seated in front of me in the cinema. And Brooking went to get the ice-creams at the interval,recieving an ironic jeer from the likes of Tony Woodcock for his services on his return carrying them!.I could not see that happening these days. The Film was called: "The First Great Train Robbery", it was awful and the biggest crime was committed by the director who made it and inflicted it upon the paying public in the disguise of entertainment. I don't recll the match the next nght being that great either!.
Alex
April 10, 2005
We seemed a little lucky against 'Boro, reminded me of early 03/04. But Man U were pathetic! How much did their front line cost? Typical, at this time last year we got Chelsea twice, and Man U twice in succession. Chelsea should of had us, Man U, and Bayern twice in succession, but no. Man U in the F.A Cup, so Chelsea get the weekend off! To make matters worse, Man U get them right at the end, when Chelsea will of already have won the PL, so will have nothing to play for. If 2nd place comes down to the last game, that has to give them an unfair advantage.
Sabir
April 10, 2005
Cannon, I watched the '99 Cup Semi at a pub in Whitechapel rd Aldgate (can't remember the name of the pub) and I too remember the Spurs fans going mad at the final whistle although there were no Chelsea fans there THEN. Steve, that incident in the Utd game after the two players got injured. To be fair the ref tried to play on and it was a Norwich player about to put the ball out of play anyway before the ref blew his whistle. Does anyone know why Brooking is no longer a pundit?
N5er
April 10, 2005
Yes where is dear old PTG and how long has he been gone? Must have hurt when that 30M from Granada cheque came thru, the CPO appeal was thrown out and he realsied that his long time argument against the Ashburton Grove move was dead in the water!
Chocolate's Guide To Life
April 10, 2005
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64267&item=8300416635&rd=1
Danny
April 10, 2005
It seems that it's not only Lawrencen that thinks the Chavs are boring Robben 'I hate watching Chelsea' even their own players can't stand the endless hoofs up to Drogba. They are to football what Jerry Bruckheimer is to film producing, a percentage team that offer nothing short of organisation and efficiency. a quarter of a billion for that? I'd rather watch Huddersfield Town, at least you don't have to fork out nearly £50 for the privilege.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
On the subject of Londoners or Cockneys, has GunGun refers to us, Bernard is right about those from rival clubs to Arsenal supporting United against us. Spuds supporters have been notorious for doing this since the drunken jock s been at OT, prior to that it was Liverpool or Leeds.Some even coming out and claiming that they would rather be relegated if it meant us not winning the league title!. Ferguson was their hero against Wenger; one example of the 'genre' was the now unlamented and thankfully departed from this forum the so called PTG. Of course there are some London or southern mainly born Manure supporters, you will find idiots everywhere, but i have never been in a pub in london full of them i have seen some wearing the odious Manc shirts but Spuds and Chavs are the main culprits making up the Manure support against Arsenal. I watched our game at OT in a pub in Whitechapel rd Aldgate and that was the scenario that afternoon the place was packed out and virtually everyone was supporting Manure!. But its this winding up by Spuds and Chelsea supporters towards Arsenal supporters over the decades in which we have offered the only threat from London to the northen clubs that is part of the reason for the hostility which London Arsenal supporters feel towards Chelsea - and why we return with interest the malice, minus though the envy, that they have directed at us for so long. What you sow so ye shall reap sayeth Cannonballs.
Maurice
April 10, 2005
Having reclaimed second spot outright, it is time to cement it. Well done Arsenal !
N5er
April 10, 2005
Yorkshire according to this article Roman is owed 115M from Chelsea FC as at 30 June 2004 and has undertaken to in effect underwrite a 36M Eurobond which is still o/s. http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/nchel30.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/30/ixnewstop.html Accumulated Group losses are 130M. I got this from another article in 2003 and just added the 88M from 2004 on! If as they state they intend breaking even (year on year) by 2010 they will have escalated that Group loss into something in the region of 300M minimum. Ultimately though its only relevent depending on whether Roman is willing (and able) to continue funding them.
Yorkshire
April 10, 2005
N5er. I don't think many people appreciate that the non-football related income is subsumed within Chelsea's accounts. I've only seen one article giving the breakdown and that showed their football turnover as £117M, same as ours, even though they received much more CL money and have a higher capacity. Many use their hotel/restaurant/ leisure facilities as a package deal with the football so the £50 match day turnover becomes £250 turnover. Because of the major demarcation between our property deals and football we can't get away with this. Finally, I understand that RA has 'loaned' them £100m so they are really still in debt. But it's all going to be Ok as kenyon says they will be self financing in 5 years. So no wage increases or new purchases then for next 5 years. Hmmmm???!!
N5er
April 10, 2005
Who is this Yorkshire character? Why is he no longer a gooner? ;_)
GunGun
April 10, 2005
OK, Bernard you may be right.I listen to your arguments because they are usually sensible and not just a collection of abuse. Those guys from London in York though were REAL United fans though. They kept referring to the side as "We".That was a double insult for me. But all in all you are right.
Yorkshire
April 10, 2005
Alex. N5er is talking bollox. He get's ALL is finance info from me!! :)
JamesLT
April 10, 2005
I agree with all the criticism of Chelsea's route one, kick and rush style. It really is Bolton/Blackburn-esque, except that they have top, international class players playing the system. I do think though that Mourinho bought brilliantly. It's one thing to have money, another thing to spend it well. I also think we have to hold our hands up and say that Chelsea have played with a lot more commitment and hunger than us at certain stages of the season. They also seem to have more players willing to take responsibility and try and fight out a result when things are going against them. I'm pleased we're now back in form, but certain performances this season (Bolton, for example) were just gutless. A disgrace. If we buy in the summer, I just hope we bring in players with fire in their belly who will fight for every ball and help inspire those around them when all our pretty-pretty football isn't working... ... ... ... ... ... ... Interesting to see that it's now our turn to be linked with TOMAS ROSICKY after Sperz in the last few weeks. He's still young and a class act, but it would take a lot of work from Wenger to get him back to what he should be. Similar to the way Le Boss had to revive Pires after his career and form drifted after leaving Metz. Rosicky would be a bargain though and he's better than Joe Cole, for example. If we're buying a playmaker from the Bundesliga though, I'd prefer Hleb to Rosicky. He had a massive game yesterday when Stuttgart hammered Schalke. Did anyone see any highlights? AMERICAN, maybe? Hleb still looks slightly lightweight - he's quite small and wiry - but he was everywhere yesterday, setting up attack after attack with his brilliant passing and then tracking back to help support his defence. Pure class. Do we really want a player though where people think you're clearing your throat every time you try too say his name?
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
So I’m watching the Man Utd –v- Norwich highlights… Rio and Ashton tackle each go down, ref plays on as United have the ball and are going forward, United player gives ball away fro Norwich break, refs blows up to allow injuries to be seen too, how dodgy is that… Schmichael has Man Utd so ingrained in his brain, that he can NEVER be a fair and impartial expert on TV, where any Thing United is concerned, he only see the Red Devil… Where was the interview with Alex Ferguson… Arsenal’s goal, may have had a touch of good fortune about it, with the ball coming off a Boro player, but the attack leading up to it deserved the reward, Boro were so busy defending that in the end too many of their players were in the same area and a deflection like was inevitable… Apart from that, luck favours the brave, Arsenal were the only one of the two sides attempting to play football…
jeremy
April 10, 2005
Yesterday's game was another evidence that we needs a new right-back.Looking at Lauren playing against pacy winger is a sorry sight.He was badly exposed when he try to mimic Cole on the right.Look at him in the first half,he was running with all his might to catch Downing and even slipped in the process but only manages to eat the dust.Save him from the torture....
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Alex, a very good post on the tactics that are in danger of taking football back into the dark ages of the 'crazy-gang' era. On last nights MOTD - for once the defensive minded Chelsea loving Alan Hanson was not on - Mark Lawerson highlighted Mourinhos long-ball tactics, the hoofing up field from the GK to the targetman Drogba, we know now why Jose bought him, the flick on and ensuing mad scramble in the penalty box which led to the equalizer. These were the same tactics that we saw in the Bayern Munich match and other games that we see Chelsea involved in. Much was made in some quarters of the media about Lampards litte cut-back and the finish by Drogba, who looked off-side but no one mentioned that, but Lawerson asked: "What's the difference with the way Chelsea play and Bolton?." Indeed, has he then went on to point out: "It's just route one stuff." And predictable boring stuff too, if Chelsea do manage to get to the CL final and i am not convinced that they will, then the game against Inter will be interesting - though not i suspect very entertaining, these long-ball tactics of Mourinhos will be found wanting. The well drilled Italians, like the Germans now, will be very aware of what to expect and AC Milan have the all-round game to counter them. It was amusing after all of the stick that our GK's have had about 'flapping' at crosses to see Chec doing it in the build up to the Brum goal, how many games now since he and the Chavs kept a clean sheet?. That was being hyped up 'ad-nauseam' in the media at one time, though i did notice that more than a little good fortune was involved in the run of them. Also to see like in the United match a ex-Arsenal player involved, or though Bentley of course is on loan at Norwich, a great cross from him and United concede from a header on a set-piece!.I thought only we were supposed to do that!. I noted after Norwich netted the second that Rio limped off, he always seems to disappear when the going get's tough - and not just out of the back door at Carrington. We ourselfs of course will be faced with another 'long-ball' merchants side in 'Old Sparkies' dour Blackburn this coming weekend - it looks like it will be a bit physical but our superior football can see us into the final.
N5er
April 10, 2005
Alex, I have a fairly large collection of Arsenal books. George Grahams auto The Glory And The Grief gives a good run down on the Arsenal board. The financial stuff I get from The Company accounts and the financial press on the internet. The ofex site also gives you a lot of info on Arsenal. For stuff on Ashburton Grove and Highbury redevelopment look no further than Islington council website.
A nony mouse
April 10, 2005
cannon balls, gungun - kiss and make up, or just stop posting to each other.
Alex
April 10, 2005
N5er-where do you get your info? Wenger has said that he worries about the future of English football if the fashion for 5-man midfields carries on. Strikers will stop being developed. Maybe this is why there is no one remotely near Henry in the goal scoring charts. Even Man U have a pathetic ratio, though their 5-man midfield, I think is down to Quiroz, who is a Jose type thinker. I think that this is also related to the reapearence of the dreaded 'long-ball' approach. It's an attempt to bypass the crowded midfield. Wenger must be disraught. He tries to show another way to English football, but instead too many teams regress in order to try to counteract Arsenal's superior football. I'm not against great defending, or defensive sides, but what the likes of Bolton are doing is disgusting, and reactionary. It doesn't work anyway. Arsenal continue to dominate, and beat these teams, and the teams that should be developing and competing, instaed regress and stagnate (nothing to do with CL money and so on- and if they want more TV money, they should play better football). Hopefully this is just a phase, and english football can learn the lessons in needs to in order to improve, and have a better record in Europe.
Bernard
April 10, 2005
GunGun, I certainly don't agree with everything Cannon Balls says and think he probably overdoes the accusations of people posting under different handles. But if it was him that said you appear to have little understanding of local football rivalries (and I'm sure I remember someone doing so, though if it wasn't him apologies to whoever else it was), after reading you views on those Londoners in York, I think he may well have a point. Do you seriously think Tottenham and Chelsea fans (and after Arsenal those two are the best supported teams in London, so I'd assume a good few of that group would have supported those clubs) would prefer Arsenal to win anything than Manchester United? Because if you do, may I suggest you seriously misunderstand local football rivalry, as I think he (or someone else) said. If there had been any Mancunians who supported City in that pub watching the game, who do you think they would have supported. The answer is: Arsenal. The number of City fans who would rather United win anything than Arsenal is just as tiny as the number of Chelsea and Tottenham fans who would rather Arsenal win something than Man Utd. Added to which, the attitude towards Chelsea has been hardened by the Abramovich developments, but if the Russian had taken over other comparable clubs like Aston Villa, Newcastle or Everton, Arsenal fans would not be showing the same animosity towards them that they are now to Chelsea, understandably in my opinion. The recognition of the danger to the sport would still be there, but hatred of Chelsea has been fuelled over time due to the way the club and its fans are. It wouldn't even be as bad if he'd taken over Charlton or Fulham, but they are a London club which heightens the anger because those of us born and bred in London will have experienced the obnoxiousness of many of their inbred fans, ably described by Truegooner earlier. Were you born and bred in London, because if you weren't, maybe you have an excuse for being so wrong on this. But if you were, I just cannot understand your attitude in this. I loathe Manchester United, but me and many others (and maybe the majority of those who disagree on this aren't Londoners) have said we'd rather Man Uted win the league than Abramovich's Chelsea. EEG said preferring Chelsea to win than Manchester United was a betrayel to the game (words to that effect), and I fully agree with him.
Sabir
April 10, 2005
I watched the Utd game today, it was the first time I bothered watching either Utd or Chelsea in ages and it was great viewing. Utd will really be up for it in the cup. It's like last year when they were consigned to 3rd and the FA Cup was their 'get out of jail' card. Admittedly we've not been that much better but there have still been more plus points to our season than theirs (our goalscoring for one). We are on a good run now, a bit dodgy today but it's all about getting the points now. Schmeichel is an absolute muppet, I can't stand him! Congratulations Arsenal on our 100th goal of the season today.
GunGun
April 10, 2005
Boy boy, crazy boy. First I was Gunfire, then I was... o forget it. This is too bloody boring for me. Go and find a life instead of being abusive on a footy forum.
clock end clive
April 10, 2005
Notice how the northern monkey loving Match of the Day team are at it again. Blaming Lauren for a two footed tackle that was clearly one-footed! Admittedly it deserved a yellow card but how can the so-called experts get it that wrong? Perhaps their poor eyesight explains why they made no such comment last week when Roy Keane committed a nightmare tackle on a Blackburn player and did not even get a free kick awarded against him? And what was Schmeichel saying about Dermot Gallagher's refereeing in the Bolton/Soton game? Seemed to madly suggest the ref was biased and that he should be suspended for missing N'Gotty's foul prior to the penalty?. And if he can be so opinionated on Arsenal players and an official why did Schmeichel bottle the question of Jockroach's recent poor management - lots of hints and pussyfooting around the issue but when it came to the crunch he could not bring himself to openly say that his old manager got his team selection wrong. Once a terrific goalkeeper the Great Dane is an embarrassment on MOTD. See Phillipe Senderos' luck is in - his clanger should have led to an equaliser but would you believe it our old nemesis JFH cocked it up. Sweet dreams.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Well GunGun,you' keep refering to cockneys in your rantings the last one that you were in a pub full of them and they were all supporting to your dismay United!.And others previous about the need for harmony blah ,blah,blah,and so on; anyway thay are there for all to see so what is the point of denying it?.Anyway i am off i have other things to do than act has your psychologist on here my advice to you is seek help for your problems -and stop lying all the time. And no i do not think your all of the forum, but you use more than one name,get it.Gut Nacht.
GunGun
April 10, 2005
And how many people do you think I am? The whole bloody forum? What hang-ups with Cockneys? What is the big secret that you think you can find out? There is nothing very mystifying about me. I have been supporting Arsenal since 1975 as I have stated before. First game Arsenal vs Stoke (1-1 draw). I remember Nico and Bernard saying they were at that match too .I have Irish family..that is my only secret. Why play detective all the time? There is nothing more to find out.
GunGun
April 10, 2005
Cannon, a sincere question. How old are you? Honestly, I would like to know that.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Err..Mickgungunge your the one with the screw loose-whats all these hang-ups you have got with Cockneys. If your going to attempt to adopt different persona in your Chelsea cause then try using different terminology to disguise yourself.Have you learnt to spell Henry properly now ?.
GunGun
April 10, 2005
How I enjoyed ManU`s defeat. Sheer pleasure.They are finished this season. That was it.They wont win the FA Cup either. I will never forget standing in a pub in York a few weeks ago to watch the Arsenal-United game. I was pleased to hear it was full of Cockneys who were in the region for an exhibition or something . To my dismay they were all shouting for United and gave us real shit. How can Londoners support United? I will never understand.
PS...I just wonder why certain people are allowed to swear so much on the forum. OK, some guys got annoyed coz I kept on defending Chelseas players as I don`t think they have ever shown any malice towards Arsenal unlike the United bunch on many occasions. However, nobody has reacted the way Cannon Balls has.He has developed a pathological condition of hate. This has got nothing to do with football anymore. If you count all the insults he has used over the past days, it is disturbing. Real venom. These are not jibes anymore.This is evil talk. Nobody talks the way you do, man. First I thought you were in for a bit of bantering. But now I realize you seriously have a screw loose. I pity anybody who knows you personally.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Colditz-Steve ,is that were you are locked up?. There has been more than one Fruit Cake Post, they are in different names mainly Mick and GunGun but some other ones.Or are you just one of the fruit cakes???
Roger Moore (James Bond)
April 10, 2005
I happened to see one of my old films the other night. A View to a Kill, where a psychopath (Christopher Walken) planned to flood Silicon Valley. It turned out he was a genetic experiment of the KGB and had no normal principles. Luckily I defeated him at the last minute. The man had no morals and was willing to do anything to further his cause. I began to wonder, was Jose Mourinho part of the same experiment?
Wengerknows
April 10, 2005
American Eagle. "All the malice and hatred in this forum directed at another London club makes it easier for me to understand how "hooliganism" originated in England. God Bless America!" Wow, that will win you a lot of friends. Tell us how you really feel. Youre wrong though, cause as Malcom X once said, "Violence is as American as apple pie". Very happy for Norwich and Bentley today. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Sir Red Nose. Roll on the chavs.
steve co/coldiz
April 10, 2005
Ah Cannonballs,the FRUITCAKE qutation was mine I believe.I´ve been supporting Arsnal blah blah Blah since 69,got the tattoo,kickings from ICF,cup final 79,Paris 95 and live on the continent.Best save your venon for your other more lovable sparing partners.poooooh
Bored
April 10, 2005
American Eagle: Hatred and Malice? Is that like when a group of fans make death threats to a referee forcing him to retire? The editor of a Norwich fanzine was on the radio and said Bentley was outstanding second half.....
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
On Grand National day this seems appropriate - good night all. This man was sitting quietly reading his paper one morning, peacefully enjoying himself, when his wife sneaks up behind him and wacks him on the back of his head with a huge frying pan.
Man: "What was that for?"
Wife: "What was that piece of paper in your trousers pocket with the name Marylou written on it?"
Man: "Oh darling, remember two weeks ago when I went to the horse races? Marylou was the name of one of the horses I bet on."
The wife looked satisfied with the response, so proceeds to work around the house. Three days later he is once again sitting in his chair reading and she repeats the frying pan swatting.
Man: "What the hell was that for this time?"
Wife: "Your horse called."
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
One for Jockroach poor old sod. Late one night, a burglar broke into a house he thought was empty.
He tiptoed through the living room, but suddenly he froze in his tracks when he heard a loud voice say: "Jesus is watching you!"
Silence returned to the house, so the burglar crept forward again.
"Jesus is watching you," the voice boomed again.
The burglar stopped dead again. He was frightened. Frantically, he looked all around. In a dark corner, he spotted a bird cage and in the cage was a parrot.
He asked the parrot: "Was that you who said Jesus is watching me?"
"Yes", said the parrot.
The burglar breathed a sigh of relief, and asked the parrot: "What's your name?"
"Clarence," said the bird.
"That's a dumb name for a parrot," sneered the burglar. "What idiot named you Clarence?"
The parrot said, "The same idiot who named the Rottweiller Jesus."
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Eskimo - Question: What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a philosopher?
Answer: An offer you can't understand.
Eskimo
April 10, 2005
OMOH - hee hee! Actually, I wish to steal one of your jokes, but can only remember the punchline (which is disturbing connsidering it made me laugh for a good few minutes!) it was - "An offer you can't understand" (I think).
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Howdy pardner.
An old cowboy dressed to kill with cowboy shirt, hat, jeans, spurs and chaps went to a bar and ordered a drink. As he sat there sipping his whiskey, a young lady sat down next to him.
After she ordered her drink she turned to the cowboy and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"
"Well, I have spent my whole life on the ranch herding cows, breaking horses, mending fences... I guess I am," replied the cowboy.
After a short while he asked her what she was.
"I've never been on a ranch so I know I'm not a cowboy," said the young woman, "but I am a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. As soon as I get up in the morning I think of women. When I eat, shower, watch TV, everything seems to make me think of women."
A short while later she left and the cowboy ordered another drink. A couple sat down next to him and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"
"I always thought I was, but I just found out that I'm a lesbian."
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Why are all these 'fruit cake' posts about,about nasty Germans and Cockneys loving and understanding each other and getting along - admiring Chelsea - the boards full of hatred - have these people- or is it 'person' ever been to a football match in England ?. Whoever they or he-she-or whatever is they obviously have no idea of what motivates supporters in football or of local rivalry.The posts have a feel of religious pontificating type mania about them - and the peson posting them appears to be mentally disturbed.
Eskimo
April 10, 2005
Eagle - From my observations, regardless of what the current hot topic is on this forum (Germany, wine, the meaning of words I have never heard of), if I ever want to talk about football and Arsenal, I know I can rely on AmericanGooner. He always, always replies to my posts and is happy to hear the opinion of others, even if it's different from his (unlike other people on here who seem to think you are stupid if you don't agree with them). HE goes on a bit sometimes, but at least he goes on about football and this is a football forum. If that's what you call 'loud-mouthed', then loud-mouthed is fine by me. If you are going to moan about people on this forum, then AG should be near the bottom of your list (I should be bottom).
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Hey Americans - on this relatively joyous day none of that Civil War stuff please! Here is one for you both - and any other Americans for that matter - Presley or Sinatra?
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
American Eagle,your out for a laugh 'god bless America',what's that got to do with Arsenal???. And whats it got to do with you if we don't like Chelsea - flap off!!!
goonerguru
April 10, 2005
Sorry Eskimo,they only showed the top 4 and Bolton in 10th.
American Eagle
April 10, 2005
American Gooner, please don't jump to false conclusions about other people. For your information I'm not a windup artist as you have intimated. So back off, fella. I do not post in this forum but I do check it out on a daily basis. Recently I've been utterly dismayed by the malice and hatred espoused by some posters here against Chelsea. I've been an Arsenal fan since 1982 and post in another forum in which you have participated. As a matter of fact a friend of mine is an acquaintance of yours and is well aware of the sources of many of your posts. You don't in the least impress me with your so called 'football knowledge'. Just because you hog this forum with your glib postings may impress some here but for those who know you here at home you come off as the "Loud-mouthed American".
Eskimo
April 10, 2005
goonerguru - out of interest, where were Arsenal on the long ball list?
goonerguru
April 10, 2005
OMOH,The long ball has come back into the Prem League this season and it seems to be played by most teams now,but agree that Bolton are the worst,but the stats dont seem to back that up with fat Sams bully boys in 10th place,thought it was April 1st when I saw it.
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Goonerguru i know what you mean when you find it suprising that the Mickey Mousers are long ball merchants - with their tradition and with Benitez we naturally expect something more from them. I went to the Anfield match when they beat us in the dying minutes with a knock on from a long goal kick. Before that their centre backs hoofed it forward most of the evening - we played the better football in a game we did not deserve to lose. Mind you the most blatant long ball tactic i have witnessed was the crap Bolton offered in our recent cup victory - that was truly Sunday league tripe from The Trotters. Blackburn in good nick so i look forward to the Cardiff trip next week -I feel we may get a classic rather than the usual moderate semi. Wouldn't want to be Newcastle though - Jockroach will roast his team into action.
Nigel
April 10, 2005
I have been reading the Chelsea and Germany postings here and I think I have observed that what Cockney supporters are suffering under amongst themselves is the same thing that expat Brits are suffering in Germany. It is the same conflict and jealousy so you should be more understanding amongst each other.
Mee
April 10, 2005
Steve - another bridge over troubled water?
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
Delia, you're breaking my heart
You're shaking our confidence daily
Oh, Delia, we’re down on my knees
I'm begging you please to don’t score more
Playing Norwich in the afternoon with Delia
Up in Norwich
I can’t believe my eyes
When I come back to life
Someone's taken their place
Delia, you're breaking my heart
You're shaking our confidence daily
Oh, Delia, we’re down on my knees
I'm begging you please to don’t score more
Jubilation, we’re winning again,
We fall on the floor and We’re laughing,
Jubilation, United losing again,
I fall on the floor and I'm laughing
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Yes i agree with Fred and Rich that Lamposts well over-rated when being labled world-class - he is having a good season which he will struggle to replicate next term. I have always said that there willl not be much in it at the end of season between us and the Chavs. I cant see any one other than us and Newcastle beating them though ,Manure are well gone with Horseface ready for the knackers yard and Rooney only doing it when in an England shirt. That game at OT between them and the Chavs looks more like a draw than anything -the same with Bolton. We will win every game from now until the end of the season and beating the Chavs with some tough fixtures to follow for them will make them sweat a little,like they say it aint over until the fat bird sings..
goonerguru
April 10, 2005
How many times does Rooney have to say **** off,before he gets booked,well judging by todays game it must be a ****ing lot.
Brett
April 10, 2005
Lovely. Just Lovely. Lovely Jubbly. HeheHee heeheeheee heeeheeeheeee (off to get tissues for my eyes!)
goonerguru
April 10, 2005
Apparantly Pires goal today was his first goal in the prem in 2005,not sure it would be wise to play Sol/Senderos together in the Semi after 6 clean sheets in the last 7 games,hope we played well today?.Watched Sky earlier,they were talking about Bolton and their long ball tactics,Sky produced the Prozone stats for long balls and Bolton were 10th,they also showed the top 4 teams,third or 4th was Chavs,no surprise there,MOO were 2nd,no surprise there either but the team with the most long balls was LiverPool which did surprise me.
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Steve M - ditto ditto! To make it even sweeter it seems that Rooney's foul on Huckerby led not only to a booking but also to a free kick which Bentley crossed for the first goal. And it seems Rooney was at fault for the second. A nation mourns.
Eskimo
April 10, 2005
Steve M - ditto!
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Well a satisfactory day all in all and didn't the drunken jock look sick!. What a show up and well outplayed with the Norwich fans giving it the o'la's !!. I was talking to a Chav earlier who was at their match and he is worried about the away to BM saying howtheyhave beenriding their luck lastely,if Lamprdgets injured they couldcollapse big-time. OMOH your being too kind to Chelsea they are the bully-boys of football and need putting in their place.
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
Go onto 606 forum, every fan of every team in the prem are loving the Man Utd result, shows how much they are hated, oh how I love it, I just love it!!!!!
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
Ruud on the bench, must have been difficult for Fergie to pick him when he;s just run the National...
Danny
April 10, 2005
When was the last time we put one over on both of our nearest rivals. I mean Birmingham drawing against the vicky pollard's and Narrrwich (lets be havin ya) beating the scum 2.0. C'mon arsenal all you need to do is beat the pollards next sat and the cat will be amongst the pigeons.
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
Now hat was it, three games ago, only United could catch Chelsea, shows how much the media now about the game...
david.d
April 10, 2005
isnt football an unbelievable game? norwich TWO NIL UP when no one has given them a hope in hell including myself. if they can pull this off then what a day it would be. listened to the whole of our game and we didnt play as well as we can but who cares pires stuck one away and the points were ours. i knew it was 1 0 but ive just come on and seen that its 2 0. hold on norwich you can do it but utd will come at them all guns blazing. lets hope they hold on and do us a great favour totally unexpectedly
Richie
April 10, 2005
Certainly would be interesting if we win at the Bridge. Odds would still be against us but while it's still mathematically possible then we have to go for it. Anything could happen. Norwich beating MU 2-0 (still playing). All we can do is win our remaining games and just see what happens.
Rich
April 10, 2005
Great win today by the lads, nice to see some good old fashioned 1-0's at the moment. Agree with you Steve that Chelsea do have some tough fixtures and it could get interesting, but probably nothing more than that. I could see us winning all our remaining games, which would leave us needing Chelsea to lose 3 and draw 1 to take us level on points. Fred - Agree that Frank Lampard is nowhere near the best midfielder in the world, IMO he gets an easier job in central midfield than teams that play 4-4-2, Makelele simply sits for Chelsea and can mop up everything for them, add a Tiago/Smertin etc next to FL and his job of getting forward with more freedom is made a hell of a lot easier. However, he is also scoring goals in the Chmpions league and in Internationals and is playing very well, probably player of the year too. There is still at least 10+ CM I'd rather have in our team than him. Aparently the Chelsea goal was offside today, not seen it yet. Adds to the list of deflected goals/lucky goals etc that the champions seem to get. Nice to see Liverpool lose, I really want Everton to get 4th spot, they deserve it so much more than Liverpool. Although give it to Liverpool over Fat Sam and his bunch of thugs any day!...........whoops...Norwich 2-0 Man U....could be a very nice day
NoPrisoners
April 10, 2005
Norwich currently roasting manure..........ha ha ha 2 - 0
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
Pennant and Upson involved in Birminghams Goal, Bentley in Norwich's goal...
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
So six games to go, 11 points in it, Chelsea’s next game, step up the Gooners, win that and it’s 8 points 5 to go…Chelsea, have to then play, Fulham (H local derby, Fulham will at least try to win) Bolton (A Challenging for Europe, no easy game), Charlton (H Chelsea’s bogey team), Man Utd (A Not easy), Newcastle (A Not easy) a couple of defeats to Arsenal and Fulham and it’s down to five points 4 games left, my money would be on us…
Fred
April 10, 2005
I'm not having this Frank Lampard (best midfielder in the world at the moment) stuff. How much do you think he is worth on the open market?
N5er
April 10, 2005
American, the Hill-Wood family and their connection with AFC goes back to 1919 when Peter Hill-Wood's Grand Father Samuel joined the board. They built up a sizable percentage of the shares over time and eventually Denis ((PHWs dad) became Chairman. Dein joined the board in 1983. His shareholding came from the Hill-Woods. Fiszman joined the board circa 1990 and his shareholding came from a combination of Hill-Wood/Dein shares. Another important family with long connections with Arsenal are the Bracewell-Smith family. Sir Guy Bracewell Smith was a former mayor of London and was Chairman between Samuel and Denis Hill-Wood. He resigned in 1961. I have tried to do research on when and who these families bought their shareholdings from. In the 1920s Sir Henry Norris was the main shareholder and when he was forced out George Allison (manager after Chapman) took a big share but was only the 2nd highest shareholder to a Mr JJ Edwards. The Bracewell-Smith family still own 16% of the shares in Arsenal. Also of note Richard and Clive Carr owned 26% of the shareholding between them. The 2 brothers are grandsons of Guy Bracewell-Smith. They inherited 26% of the shareholding and both served on the board. Only Richard remains on the board and owns only 5% in his own name. Hope this is of interest.
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Not seen any of the match but judging by reports a deserved win. You have to admire the spirit of our guys away from home - yet another victory at Boro who must be thoroughly sick of us by now. A Pires goal - 13th of the season - how bad is that for a midfielder? How often he seems to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of the loose ball - our opponents will call it luck but he does it with such regularity that it points to his undoubted footballing intelligence. Cannon Balls you are going to hate this - but it reminds me a lot of how Martin Peters used to be Johnny-on-the Spot for West Ham, Spurs and England. Good to see Barnet promoted. If only Bentley can do the business against Jockroach's mob it will be a lovely day.
Richie
April 10, 2005
Third season running we have done the double over Boro. Well done. Sounds like we rode our luck a bit but another clean sheet bodes well for the remainder of the season. Sets it up nicely for the s/f and Stamford Bridge. Chelsea getting a bit nervy perhaps?
Steve Martin
April 10, 2005
Congratulations Arsenal, qualified for the Champs league for the 8th season running... Nice to keep a clean sheet, Senderos back = clean sheet... Down to 11 points on Chelsea...
Fred
April 10, 2005
1-1 Chelsea refuse to lose and will probably go and win it felt good for awhile though! Damn. Let's hope we can hold on.
old man of hoy
April 10, 2005
Cannon Balls i am in favour of a European Laegue - have been for a long time - but i can't see how it would be morally superior to Abramovich's Chelsea if it was run by a G14 cartel who pick and choose who can be members of the club. If Chelsea are champions then they should be part of that European League. However difficult it might seem the answer to Chelsea's power has to be demonstrated on the field of play not by exclusion. That is how the likes of Arsenal, Valencia, Dortmund and Lyon have traditionally prevailed in the face of the apparently overwhelming financial muscle and influence of ManU, Real, Barca, Bayern, Monaco and Marseille.
Truegooner
April 10, 2005
Juve- Admittedly Chelsea is a reasonably elegant area of London,however Chelsea fans largely consist of burberry clad,bling (argos style) boneheads,plus a load of johnnie come latelys etc,so I think the sobriquet of chavs is quite appropriate!
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
Whoops! Brum 1 Chavs 0
AmericanGooner
April 10, 2005
This may be bad timing as our minds are focused on the task at hand at 'Boro and perhaps I need to ask it during a slow period on the forum. I finished reading Exile's articles on our club history and maybe I missed it but when did Dein, Fizzman, Hill-Wood and the board get ownership of the club?
AmericanGooner
April 10, 2005
Dogbite, you say its the hunger that has made up for your shortcomings. I'm assuming you meant from last season. Well, could it be 70 mil quid spent in the summer? If you had the same squad as last season an argument could be made. Even if a slightly strengthened one, but you spent 70 mil and you didn't have Cech, Cavalho, Drogba and Robben last season. 4 new players of your XI would suggest otherwise. Its money well spent is what it suggests. Not saying its wrong, but you're substituting deep pockets for deep desire. As for Wenger, his Euro record is not that badly from Fergie's in his early years. Would you call Fergie a great manager? Assuming you would, it took him 13 years to lift the cup. Lets give Wenger the same consideration. Also, Fergie and Mourinho has had far more money to spend and strengthen squads. If we hadn't have lost Anelka, Overmars and Petit when we did I think things would have been different but that's speculation on my part. We've had to rebuild a new team from their sales and that takes time and it takes a bit of luck and guile when we are always outspent in the transfer market by the likes of Man Yoo who had deeper pockets. As for the players he's had available he's bought them young and had to develop them. We didn't buy established stars like RVN or Rio. Wenger won the league in a little over a year in '98 with little money and a club that was mid table before he got there. So, it puts Mourinho's accomplishment of taking a 2nd place club, after spending an additional 70 mil, into a bit of perspective. His accomplishment at Porto was more convincing. This is speculation, but given what you know, if Wenger, Fergie and even Redknapp, Allardyce, Strachan or even O'Leary had come to Chelsea in the summer, would it be a real shock if they won the league? As I've stated. You have to win it on the pitch. Chelsea have done it and are doing it. But there is a difference in how its done. That's why a lot of people see our titles as more significant than Fergie's given the resources he has to work with and we do. Also, not sure Mourinho has to do with your key players (Cech, Terry, Lampard) not being injured. Every title has a little bit of luck and fortune tied to it. We had it last season with no major injuries long term and a few calls going our way at the right time. Man Yoo had it in '03 with all their injured players coming just in time for an April run while we suffered massive injuries. And you've had that as well this season.
Cannon Balls
April 10, 2005
American,it is obviously a spoof of course the forum idiot Mick-GunGun took the nonsense to be seriou s- even posting to me and advising that i read it!. Then again the nonsense is exactly what he himself expounds endlessly over and over again on here, so it's not exactly a case of spot the difference.
AmericanGooner
April 10, 2005
American Eagle is obviously someone on a wind up. Please disregard him. My only interest toward his post is whether or not it originated here in the states. I'd be saddened if it did.
Juve
April 09, 2005
how comes Arsenal fans call chelsea the chavs > I aint from london but as a frequnet visitor South west london is a lot smater and more cultured and north london (esp islington etc) is full of pikey/chavs ?
Not takin the piss but explain it , or is it an inside joke that only arsenal and chelsea fans understand ?
Alex
April 09, 2005
Bernard- Your reply was well made and seemed well researched, so I will retract that statement. I hope you are right, as I wouldn't want that sort of behaviour hanging over what is surely going to be a fantastic new stadium. Has anyone seen Toulanlan play? Or Silvio Proto for that matter? Hope that Senderos, V.Persie, and Bentley all get to play today.
david.d
April 09, 2005
well we know how arsene values senderos now! he has brought him back into the team for today at the expense of cygan which is great news so i think we can safely assume that senderos is at least no 3 in the pecking order. well pleased about that. nothing against cygan who i have said does a good job for us but the future is senderos and we have to give him as many games as possible. he , viera and fabregas come into the team(flamini freddie and cygan drop out) so it looks like reyes and henry up front , fabregas on the right , gilberto and viera in the middle and pires on the left. COME ON ARSENAL!!!!
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
Mick-GunGun, you come over like some kind of religious evangelical freak with your pious sermons and repetitive lectures a'la rants..yawn. Your no Arsenal supporter either any Arsenal supporter even a child knows that Henri is not the way to spell our super-stars name, your sly little turd like insinuations,when Henri(sic) stops scoring and the booing starts, oh yeah, the one about Cambell the other day and so forth,give it a rest you ignorant imbecile - your thicker than two planks nailed together.
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
OMOH, the answer is that which schools use when they have a bully running amok in their midst, expel him. For instance the CL is an essential tournament for all big clubs, it's been revamped several times in it's format and the qualifiction needed to play in it.The G14 clubs could form there own Super Euro League minus Chelsea. A CL without the True big clubs of Europe which Chelsea are not would not be of interest to anyone.
GunGun
April 09, 2005
Another weak posting Cannon Balls, full of insults again.
You are boring and very predictable. I can almost predict what your next posting will be. The only words that change are the swear words and your futile attemts to be offending. Leave it up to Niall and the other administrators to tell people to leave this site. You bore me. Small-minded and petty.Harp, harp, harp on bloody Chelsea. If it had not been for your stupid rantings of hate I would never have got into this discussion of "to hate or not to hate." Luckily, some other posters are more moderate than you and show more decency in their wording
***Essien the man to partner Vieira. It is evident that sadly there are few top notch English players around.Dyer, Jenas, Glen Juhnson all totally over-rated. I can see Arsene going solely for foreign players again in the summer and I cannot blame him. However, if Gerrard really were to come...I think the blend of technically gifted Europeans and the grit of the Brits is a great combination.
old man of hoy
April 09, 2005
Cannon Balls - exactly how can G14 crush Chelsea? At the end of the day it is still a sport we are talking about and Chelsea right at this moment are the best we have in this country, and they may turn out to be the best in Europe. I would much prefer to substitute Arsenal for the word Chelsea in that previous snetence but a thing called "the facts" gets in the way.
N5er
April 09, 2005
Dogbite, ok that was a fairly balanced reply. I’ll deal with the points directed to me otherwise I’ll be bogged down by this all weekend. Thanks for the info regarding the sale of the travel business. I actually have more or less the same figures and this actually makes sense now. I was wondering how the 25M related to this segment could be taken out of corporate revenues of (as you mentioned) 34M. With 15M attributable to the other hospitality type business at Chelsea Village this would make more sense and would equate like to like turnovers (remember we have had 42M of property related revenue discounted) of CFC 129M vs. AFC 115M. Broadcasting (which includes prize money) would obviously rise dependant on your success but unless English clubs are able to go it alone like their Spanish and Italian counterparts I reckon it wouldn’t be much more than an extra 15M from where you were last year. Sponsorship as I noted before will rise by only 10M max for the next five years. As its unlikely you will increase capacity in the very near future its pointless really getting into what will happen after 2010 because there are just too many imponderables both football wise and economically! As for Gooners revelling in your years of gloom, I don’t think it was as bad as you are making out. If you were a spud, I’d be agreeing with you and I find it hard to believe that you think us Arsenal fans are ‘obsessing’ in Chelsea. Firstly its not the football your playing, I’m sure you have heard much praise for your game throughout your tour of duty on other fans forums, it’s the sheer volume of financial muscle that has rendered the whole of football a totally uneven playing field! Remember in the mid 90’s Arsenal were in no better position than the likes of Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Liverpool and Leeds with regard to resources and have spent considerably less than all of these teams in the meantime whilst also diverting at least 120M of their own cash to our new stadium and producing success on the field! And secondly aren’t you the one on our board (and others), who does that make obsessed? ;_)
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
Well dogbite,the neutural vote gives the thumbs down to Jose V Wenger via the TV viewing audiences, an essential part of football these days,using Mourinhos rather somewat fortuitious winning of the CL to suggest that makes him a better manager then Wenger is ludicrous. Arsenal score more goals and provide the entertainment in the league,if every manager followed the idiotic GunGuns advice and copied Mourinho the game of football would be finished. Boredom with Mourinho is already setting in if you can't sell tickets to attract people to watch home and away and they switch off in droves when they see Chelsea are playing on TV then you have a problem. Mourinho is a bore and a few make or break CL games do not alter that fact, Boro v Arsenal the neutrals will tune in, Chelsea v Boro? nah, now Chelsea v Arsenal...
MrParker's Dogbite
April 09, 2005
In reply to N5er. A chav with half a brain? I’ll take that as a compliment from you. As for the financial stuff I do know that the travel business was sold as soon as Roman took over so the £144m turnover excludes that. Broadcasting income was over £56m (Arsenal’s £60m, Man U £63m) and could well increase a bit if not dramatically (unless there’s some kind of breakaway league in which we’re included). Matchday income was £54m (AFC = £34m, MU = £61m) and definitely would rise if capacity is increased though this will be a few years away. The real growth potential is on the commercial side though (inc. sponsorship). Income here was £34m (AFC = £21m, MU = £48m, Madrid = £57m, Bayern = £70m). Of course that’s just half the story and to make Chelsea anything like a real business the club would need to rein in wages and transfer spending. Given our strong, young squad there’s every chance the latter will reduce dramatically in a couple of years but it’s admittedly hard to see lower wage spending for the forseeable future. So do I believe Kenyon that we’ll be self-funding in 5 years? Probably not. Do I think that the financial situation will look enormously better in 5 years (assuming Roman’s still around). Yes I sincerely do. As for rivalry, yes there are a lot of Chelsea fans gloating about this season and who are probably giving you lot stick. And this is directly related to all the years that you’ve had the upper hand over us (and have revelled in that fact). But I do tour round other fans’ forums sometimes and it’s perfectly clear to me that Arsenal are obsessing over Chelsea in a wholly unhealthy way at the moment. You talk about us a lot more than we talk about you. And in response to AmericanGooner: no I don’t think we work harder because we’re top of the league. It’s because I’ve seen no club show more hunger than Chelsea this year. And it’s that hunger which, more than anything else, has made up for some of our other shortcomings and has left us 13 points clear. As for Mourinho – I don’t think you’re being mean spirited, just blinkered. Mourinho’s success with Porto and now (hopefully) Chelsea is unprecedented in such a short space of time and all the excuses in the world won’t hide that fact. Wenger deserves enormous credit for what he’s achieved with limited resources but it’s very hard to make a case for him being a great manager given the players he’s had available and his terrible European record. Until ‘the Professor’ lifts that European Cup, history will always consider him an inferior coach to ‘the Special One’.
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
Mick-GunGun,i see no reference in the American Eagle post about me, however the god bless America bit at the end suggests it's either a spoof or posted by an idiot like yourself. Now can you just do one i am sick of reading your infantile rants and others on here have also told you to shut up, so disappear you moronic twit - the GunGun Arsenal supporter who can't even spell Henry the clubs greatest players name!!! I note that you never have any problems with the Chelsea ones.
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
OMOH, Chelsea have more money, albeit someone elses, to spend, however they are certainly not the most powerful club in the world. The GI4 group can squash them like a juggernaught running over a snake in the grass if they desire to do so. Bruce Bucks recent statements, and the clubbs refusal to back Mourinho over the Frisk allegations show that Abramovich sees the dangers looming if Kenyon and Mourinho continue to alienate the football world in the manner that they have thus far in their short time at his club. A little less of the bully-boy tactics the arrogant way they went about the AC3 business and Mourinho and co lying over the Frisk affair have not done them any favours. Also the preposterious claims made on behalf of thir pragmatc football are laughable,if you want to see that stuff played properly - catch AC Milan - they are the present masters of it. And the best team aroundat present - not the dear old Chavs.
GunGun
April 09, 2005
Cannon Balls, just look at American Eagle`s posting. It is to you, it is about you and it says everything I have been trying to explain to you in the past weeks. You are a hopeless case of a hate-ridden fanatic who goes beserk with hate when somebody does not agree with you. I am glad Eagle posted that. Of course, you might think it is me...o well, it takes all sorts to make a world. Appealing for less hate towards other players does not make me a Chelsea supporter.
In your world it does.
Bernard
April 09, 2005
Alex, I was interested in seeing your comment that "it looks like we're taking the piss with local residents and businesses with regards to AG. Telling them to piss off is one thing, but only giving them knock down prices for their trouble is another." Doesn't the value of properties subjected to compulsory purchase orders (CPOs) get set independently from the sellers and buyers by experts in the field who set a fair price that reflects the genuine worth of the property? So why is that taking the p*ss out of them, and I can't see why that takes anything out of local residents anyway: it's the landowners for firms in Queensland Road who are subjected to the CPOs; I didn't think any local residents are subjected to CPOs as, if you've been to Queensland Road, you'd be aware it's a derelict non-residential street. Furthermore, I believe the landowners now being subjected to CPOs could have taken a higher value than the fairly set genuine value they will now be getting because Arsenal were previously offering a higher price than this genuine value to try and get a quicker purchase of the road, which is why many of the firms in Queensland Road did indeed sell earlier for a higher price, and Arsenal have been very generous in letting those ones move out at periods when it suited them, rather than giving over-tight deadlines. The existing landowners now subject to CPOs were, I'd suggest, perhaps conned by ISCA into not selling earlier and will now probably lose out as a result. If anyone's taken the p*ss out of them, perhaps you should point the finger at Alison Carmichael and her ISCA cronies more than at Arsenal. They've increased the costs of the planning project very heavily for Arsenal with all the legal fees relevant to getting the CPOs approved, and I have no sympathy with them whatsoever.
old man of hoy
April 09, 2005
I hope Senderos partners Kolo today at Boro - the right reward for his recent performances. We hear a lot about our bad luck on this forum but as far as young Phillipe is concerned he has perhaps turned the corner in that respect. After so many injuries he seems fit and well - and what is more the few errors he has made have not been catastrophic. I knew it would be too cold for Sol to play up north so good old Pascal will be on hand for the bench -and at about 60k a week less. If the news about Reyes is true then that is a bonus. If the as yet unconfirmed (?) injury to Clichy is correct that really is a shame. On Chelsea - just why do they need to be in G14? Surely they are the most powerful club in the world now?
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 09, 2005
N5er - I agree with your comment about the money launderers "rivalry" with us. I've never had any great feeling for them one way or the other, I admired some of their players in the past like Hudson, Cooke and Hutchinson, but as for rivalry I've always thought them to be more a rival of s**dz than us. They reminded me of the kid at school on the sideline watching the big boys having a kickabout and never being invited to join in, now they've grown up and bought their own ball and still nobody wants to play with them! Chelsea, aren't they the team in West London who play in blue and won the league in black and white?
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
Mick,or..GunGun rather todayis it?. Spelling ?.."when Henri stops scoring",Who is Henri then?, a Chelsea player? if your going to try and score cheap points pal over a typing error at least make sure that your own posts are correct, try and engage your brain, don't be a prat all of your life. But my advice to you is give it up your not that bright and it comes over in your postings. Stick to the Chavs boards your more at home on them, they are full of morons who can't spell Henry.
SF Gooner
April 09, 2005
How can god bless America when we put out crap like Brittney Spears and Christina Aguilera and dingbats like Paris Hilton become stars. I'm sorry eagle, but he's not blessin nothing over here.
American Eagle
April 09, 2005
All the malice and hatred in this forum directed at another London club makes it easier for me to understand how "hooliganism" originated in England. God Bless America!
N5er
April 09, 2005
Dogbite you say that “regardless of Roman’s investment, Chelsea generated more revenue than any club in the world aside from Man United, Real Madrid and AC Milan last year.” Yes but please also be aware that this turnover was distorted by non direct football type revenue of at least 40M - this coming from travel business (25M in 2003) and hotel/restaurants/nite club/health club (15M in 2003) These have also been identified as loss making businesses in the business model adopted by the new regime. In anycase I am not certain that turnover is the best guide to judging financial wealth. Traditionally Gate Receipts, Sponsorship and Broadcasting have been the main earners. I’ll stick with my thoughts that your sponsorship won’t be increasing by any more than 5M max. (btw if you have evidence that the 25M wont be paid by the club please divulge) broadcasting (and prize monies) will depend on how far you go in the CL (don’t forget getting to the semi finals was included for last years total) and you are obviously more in the know than me regarding your capacity being increased, but even so this 8k(?) increase is unlikely to generate more than 10M (15M) max. So even if I revise my earlier guesstimate from 25M to (say) 40M this will still not see you making much headway to solving your loss making position of some 90M (last year) Irregardless whilst Roman intends funding the shortfall you will no doubt be ok. As for resentment with regard (Romans) wealth (please don’t mistake it for your Clubs) perhaps it’s a two way street? Can’t ever remember the Chelsea fans invading our internet space before your sugar daddy turned up and there was a cordial atmosphere even at Cardiff in 2002 when your lot turned up beat before the game had even started! Say could our years of success really be resented by your folks who are now desperately attention seeking and trying to kick start some rivalry which has never really been there? Just a thought but in anycase nice debating with a chav with half a brain and one who is willing to make concessions such as admitting they are essentially a ‘middle-ranking club” without Romans dough!
Alex
April 09, 2005
I hope I'm wrong about Reyes, but saying that he's waiting for an offer he'd prefer is a bit disrespectful to the club. I'm not saying that he won't make a great player, but there are other considerations. 'Former Arsenal'- You're point that no one is 'clean' in football is true, and ethics in football is a hard argument to make, but you do not make you're argument well, and there is a lack of perspective. Graham's 'bungs' are not the same as robbing an entire country. Exiled- what proof is there that Arsenal turned down Roman's maoney? I would love to see it. Jose- Lupoli had a 2 goal per game ratio at Parma U18, and has a 1 a game here for U18 & Reserves. He also scored 2 on his 1st team debut against Everton. I'm not sure however that he's a real Arsenal style player. He's a real 'fox in the box', and goals are everything to him. In terms of great managers, how come Benitez is being ignored. 2 La Liga's and a UEFA Cup, and has taken Liverpool to the brink of the CL Semi's! Far more impressive than Jose. Benitez with money would strike more fear into most teams. They also beat us fair and square (though perhaps a draw would of been fairer), and should of beaten Chelsea twice. No one on this forum complaining about Liverpool. Would they if they were 13 points clear? No. Would I take Roman's money? No. I feel bad enough about taking Nike's. Also, it looks like we're taking the piss with local residents and businesses with regards to AG. Telling them to piss off is one thing, but only giving them knock down prices for their trouble is another. It is often the case that a club that buys success, needs two years to acheive it. Lazio, Blackburn, and Newcastle (nearly) of the top of my head. Chelsea are nothing new, a bit like thier tactics. American- I'm sure that Sport Science is more advanced in the U.S, but is there not a right old fuss at the moment about what exactly this 'science' consists of? My point is the mad rush to get fit as soon as possible maybe what is damaging them in the long term. How often we see players come back too soon, and imediatly get a long term injury again (there are always numerous players on the 'treatment table' on the Arsenal Web-Site, and that does not include the youth players). If the body breaks down, it is saying that you're doing something wrong. Playing through pain, and pumping the area with drugs for example cannot be good in the long term. How often do you see healthy ex-pros? Clichy- another one bites the dust. It can't be right. What about all the young kids who don't even get a chance?
Sabir
April 09, 2005
Clichy has broken a bone in his foot I think. Flamini went off early against Norwich but I'm not sure what the problem is with him. We usually do well at Boro, and with their injuries right now, we should get the points comfortably (I hope).
GunGun
April 09, 2005
I don`t pretend to be a Gunner...I am a Gunner who defends
PLAYERS from hatred. Slag off the club but hands off the players.... I used to hate the stick and hate Kanu had to put up with here. I used to defend him and the reactions were always the same. So little respect for your own players. The day Henri stops scoring he will become a hate target too. Cannon Balls is already sharpening his wicked weapon. Today a German newspaper (Express) actually apologized in a headline about their Chelsea hate campaign. Seriously. They said " Sorry Chelsea for the abuse the players and Roman have to go through every game. You play the type of football that the working-class fans adore". I thought that was splendid sportsmanship towards a foreign side.
GunGun
April 09, 2005
Tut, Tut, Cannon Balls, watch the spelling again: it is UEFA
not EUFA. You are too nervous when you write. You are all worked up. Adriano for Arsenal, I say.
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
Sabir, what happened?!! Also, is Flamini out for the remainder as well, I heard his thigh injury is more serious than we think but I've not heard this confirmed.
Sabir
April 09, 2005
It's a shame that it looks like Clichy is out for the remainder of the season. He's looked good recently.
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
Exiled, yep, funny thing is they are all caled ACL in the media here, you never hear of PCL. **** James in Copenhagen, an old one. A Brit gets beat up by a taxi driver at JFK when he asks him for a fag and a rubber. **** As far as the work hard argument, I'll also add that at times the weaker clubs work harder than the Chelseas and Arsenals of the league because of their lack of quality players. Players on our side may not work as hard against a lower table side and even with that lack of effort, have to work harder to get a point or stop it from being a cricket score.
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
Sorry, don't have the link, only an email from a fellow gooner: ARSENAL will offer Gilberto Silva a new contract this summer - but David Bentley has warned he is not afraid to quit Highbury. Gilberto made his comeback in the 4-1 win over Norwich last Saturday after being ruled out since mid-September with a back injury.He has 12 months remaining on his current deal but Gunners boss Arsene Wenger is keen to secure a three-year extension for the 28-year-old.Wenger said: "We will try to extend Gilberto's contract."He has a great presence in midfield and you could see that against Norwich. He certainly knows the job. "We want him to stay and we want him to be part of our future. We will sort that out in the summer. "He has recovered completely from his back injury and that will not be a problem for him now." While Gilberto's future seems assured, homegrown ace Bentley admits he will turn his back on the club if he is not given a chance.The 20-year-old, currently on a season-long loan with Norwich, warned: "I don't want to be playing reserve team football anymore and I won't be playing for the reserves next year. "I love the club and the fans, I grew up watching Arsenal."But at the end of the day if I'm not going to be given a chance for whatever reason then I'll have to go somewhere else, and I'm not fazed by that. "I'll speak to Arsenal and see what they have got to say, but maybe my future lies somewhere else. "At Arsenal no one is guaranteed to play every week, but I just want to be given a chance to play every week."If I'm not being successful on the pitch and the manager doesn't pick me then fair enough. I'll be the first one to hold my hands up. " **** Bentley making threats. I want to see more of him and if he's not going to be a regular on the bench, then loan him out again to a PL side that will guarantee him first team football. I would like to see him loaned to a club that would use him in the Bergkamp role, support striker. Maybe one of the promoted sides next season (Sunderland, Wigan perhaps) could use him. Maybe one of the London sides like Fulham, where we can keep an eye on him. As for Silva, his importance or perceived importance has obviously been the impetus to his contract extension. I am in favor of it. Hopefully Cole's is sorted out as well. Of the first team members I would not be upset about their leaving would be Lauren and Lehmann. I'd give Bergkamp one more year. I wouldn't use him as much but I think for the likes of van Persie, Lupoli, Reyes and Quincy and Bentley to train with him and see his work ethic and skill on a daily basis is invaluable.
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
Well said EEG about former Arsenal fan. **** Jose1905, keep posting, I actually do like to hear the opinion of rivals and neutrals, if done respectfully, which you have done to be fair to you, now on to official business ;-) had Chelsea just stopped at being able to buy the best players no matter the fee (and throwing the transfer market into chaos), I'd still be upset but understand. My concern is they are not stopping there. My concern is the feeder club scheme from which they could hoarde the world's best emerging talent. My concern is their attempting to weaken rivals by attempting to buy their transfer targets (Robben and Reyes for example). And finally, my concern is the gamesmanship being employed by your manager. As for working their butts off, all clubs do. Every one has more respect for Everton than Chelsea. Chelsea worked its butt off before didn't it? And before Roman you got 3rd. Did you work any harder for 1st place? No, you had more money. Not even your own, which at least Man Yoo can claim. Simple, end of story. At least be honest about it. I was personally glad and didn't feel a bit traitorous when our basketball team started to lose. Why? We were buying the medals to be frank and honest about it. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned in that regard. **** I also hold no ill will for the players...well some of them...haha..Robben came strictly for the money, he's a mercenary...he was all but signed for Man Yoo and he got offered much more money to come to Chelsea, even though he preferred Man Yoo and had RVN there. Terry, Lampard and Cole are better players now and that will help the national team. I cheer for the national team (2nd to my own of course) in international competitions, so I don't begrudge them and hope they get better.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 09, 2005
American - think you'll find there are different sorts of cruciate ligament injuries of which A(anterior)CL is just one. There's Posterior CL as well, and for some reason I think there is a third.
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
GunGun,the only hysterical ranting is coming from you and the other muppet your partner in slime Professor of Grammar Mick. You do post some unbelivable stupid nonsense. Mourinho admitted to lying when he claimed to have seen the Barca manager go into Frisks dressingroom at half-time.It then turned out to have been his staff who saw it, but then this turned out to be a mistake! - what they saw was Rikaard speak a few words with Frisk outside the dressing room and in plain view and earshot of numerous people including media and Eufa officials. Mourinho cynicallly turned this innocuous incident into allegations of corruption. In many peoples view he got off lightly with a two match ban. Frisks admitting that Rikaard spoke to him on his way to the dressing room but did not follow him inside just further refutes the lies of Mourinho. I have told you before try and engage your brain before flying in with your nonsensical rants - you just make yourself look silly. If Mourinho was correct Chelsea would have backed him - they did not and still have not done so a picture paints a thousand words eh? - hey! perhaps they know something that you don't GunGunge???
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
Mr Parker's Dogbite, first, thanks for your post. My post may come off as meanspirited but its not meant to be, only to be a brutally honest assessment of the situation and facts. Now, as far as Jose winning with no money, its all speculation. You don't know. Its also a slap in the face to every other club to say that Chelsea's players work harder based purely on your standing in the league. Does Gudjohnsen work harder than Palace's Andy Johnson? Is the basis for that argument their respective club's position in the table? As for Jose's portuguese record, he inherited one of the top 3 clubs in a 3 club league. Porto had never been worse than 3rd before he arrived going back to '99 when they were league champs. His UEFA cup was won with cheating, diving and gamesmanship and his route to the CL was the easiest route any club in recent memory has had as he avoided Real Madrid, Juve, Milan, Bayern Munich and caught Man Yoo when even Wolves were beating them. Depor when they had a man sent off (from Porto cheating) in both legs. They played 11 v. 10 both times. Frankly, no matter what Jose accomplishes at Chelsea with Roman's money can't be seen as great as what Wenger did with no money. If Mourinho had taken over Liverpool or Newcastle and won the title, then I could call him great. I have said before, there are a half a dozen PL managers that could have won the league within 2 years at Chelsea given the same situation. I honestly think I personally could win the title in 4 with the same money. All I have to do is buy the right coaching staff around me. The real question is can Chelsea win with no Roman? **** I'd like to find anyone outside of Stamford Bridge that thinks your finances will be sorted out in time without Roman's money. Just because Kenyon says it, doesn't make it so. The interesting thing is we were rumored in the press to be on the brink of bankruptcy over the stadium and our limited finances, but now even the skeptics have come round and no one is talking about our not having any money. The Reyes buy happening around the same time as the final financing for AG shut the last of the skeptics up. I'm wondering why the press has been kind to Kenyon and Chelsea regarding their future finances? In time I think they will scrutinize it a bit more but right now they are enjoying having Jose make good quotes and a club other than us and ManYoo. **** Coke head Merson, you're talking about individual players actions. Had the club instructed its players to dive or whatever, then it would be a similar argument to the ones being waged against the Blues. Anyone can name at least one outrageous tackle or dive by a player on every club in all divisions.
Juliano
April 09, 2005
Parker-You cannot see the difference between a club like Manchester United, who each year make a profit by themselves, and Chelsea who make losses every season but have an "artificial" way to sweep them all? Man Utd are getting on my nerves, but I'd give them the credit they are due. Chelsea, well I reckon they've put a decent team together, but who wouldn't with the cash they're on? I'll frankly cream myself the day Abramovich is sent down by Putin like Mikhail Chodorkovsky before him, and Chelsea are put into administration. Finally, you say that there is much more hatred towards Chelsea on Arsenal boards than on MU's? Well, I don't think it's one of their players you lot tapped up a couple of days before an important game was it?
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
N5er, I think if Chelsea comes to dominate Europe you'll see a super league from the G14. Before they do, they'll ask UEFA to do something about it and if they don't, they'll do what they've been threatening to do for some time, start their own league and with it take the money from UEFA and all the FAs in Europe. I wonder if eventually, we'll see what happened here happens to football in England to combat Chelsea. Our sports teams started out owned by a local family who really loved the club and it was like a favored child to them, then they sold out to partnerships, headed by a lead partner who controlled the club and now its corporations that own some teams like Disney and Time-Warner. Would the likes of Cadbury-Schweppes or Tosco end up owning clubs as the only means for them to compete financially? **** Mee, good point about personal wealth like Jack Walker and the guy at Wolves. The vast majority of the time it doesn't throw the whole transfer market out of whack. Also, its only about building their club and not the other things that Chelesa have done which I've mentioned.
AmericanGooner
April 09, 2005
Alex, if you saw Mourinho's tactics in the UEFA cup run a couple years ago, you may think otherwise about him changing tactics. I am a Rangers fan in the SPL but found myself feeling sorry for Celtic in the final. The diving, cheating and gamesmanship was too much to bear. As well as some of the tactics in the run to the UEFA cup. As far as I can tell, if he can beat you fairly he will but if he can't he won't hesitate to use gamesmanship. I also think if Reyes has a great season, or the type of season we think he's capable of and Real Madrid comes calling, I wouldn't be shocked if he went. When you're playing well on the pitch everything else (settling in culturally, etc.) becomes a lot easier, but he is not one of the more cosmopolitan players like Cesc, who would take interest in a foreign country and adapt. Its just his personality I think. **** Regarding Ryan Garry and injuries to others. Maybe the physical toll is partially training and medical regimen? We have plenty of youth that have gone to play professionally at 17 and 18 here. Sports Medicine is big business here and most professional teams have top notch surgeons at their disposal. Even some footballers in Europe have come here for a specialist. Even in the physically demanding sports like gridiron the medical staff is world class. Cruiciate ligament (known as ACL here) injuries are treated with very good specialists. The professional teams have the money so they pay for top surgeons and team doctors. I don't know if its the same level in England or Europe. I have heard Arsenal has excellent medical staff but not sure if its the same quality for all clubs. The uni teams here are also excellent.
James - Copenhagen
April 09, 2005
Michael Jackson meets Woody Allen at JFK and asks have you got two fives for a ten?
Cannon Balls
April 09, 2005
EEG, i hate Spuds too so i must be three-dimensional!. I guess that Josie must have rubbed his hands with glee on seeing that long-ball over the top that we scored from. against BM. No need to practice just normal service required really. Hargreaves made plain and Kahn also that they realize that they were mugged by the long-ball so i will be surprised if the do not do something to counter it.And their quick passing and diving won them lots of free kicks in danger areas. Strangely despite the much vaunted defense Chelsea looked dodgy and Jonson was fortunate to get away with his mistake, that should have been a goal. With Roy Makaay back to offer more problems up front, the Germans were very light weight and could not hold up the ball in that department i do not think that Hargreaves is wrong in believing that they can still turn this tie around. Chelsea are favourites but not certainties in my book.
East End Gooner
April 09, 2005
Owen Hargreaves comments were stupid and any Arsenal supporter seeking comfort from them is a fool. Bayern whupped us and were whupped by Chelsea. I was watching thinking "this Bayern side is **** with the long ball and set pieces and our two goals against them came that way so why the **** did we spend so much time trying to play through them?". It was hard to notice Ballack was even playing in the first half because Chelsea by-passed the midfield. But much as I think we could have worked that one out, I cant give Jose too much credit. Its how his team plays best anyway. Its a tactic that will struggle against the Milan back-line though could get them joy against Juventus.
East End Gooner
April 09, 2005
GunGun - Completely wrong I am afraid. See my posts to Niall. Your posts go well, well beyond fair to Chelsea. Bizarre really. I can understand the Parker's Dog etc because they admit what they are and are up for a discourse. But why pretend you are a Gooner when your only outlet seems to be the defence of Chelsea? Some people argue that Cannon Balls is one dimensional. I think that unreasonable because he hates Fergie as well as Chelsea. You on the other hand......
Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 09, 2005
Whilst I appreciate Owen Hargreaves comments on the difference between us and chelscum its got to be said that if we could mix it up a little we might have gone that little further in the competition over the last few years! Come on Arsenal.
GunGun
April 09, 2005
Cannon Balls...it`s pay day. Uefa have ben caught out so all your hysterical ranting about Mourinho being a liarhas been in vain. You must be feeling rather silly today. And did you notice that Gunfire is back? But to be fair, I think you recently said you knew we were different posters.***I think Senderos deserves a good run till the end of the season, Sol or no Sol. Arsenal are definitely a nicer club than Chelsea. But I still will not be drawn into the type of hatred shown here.
Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 09, 2005
Afternoon all. As Bernard said earlier I was up Highbury earlier today. I'd like to say the main reason was to get tickets for the semi, or to go and check the builders at AG were'nt slacking, but unfortunately it was to pay a parking fine I picked up two saturdays ago when I went up to check out the progress of the aforementioned new Stadium! Anyway I had to pay the fine at Finsbury park but as I was in the area I stopped off at Highbury to have a look round (well you've got to havent you!). Firstly its great news the semi has sold out (as I was told was going to happen). Indeed I've just been on a Blackburn forum and they're saying they've only sold around 15,000 tickets (I'm not going to take the p*** as we've got a lot more fans than them). Anyway, apparently they've sold them in blocks and most of the west stand is un-sold. They're suggesting on there that those tickets (many of them at 25 quid) might go on sale to Gooners, so if you know anyone who wants to go, but thinks they cant, than tell them to keep an eye out for any possible ticket news. Was up AG on saturday and couldnt believe the progress in just 4 days. The whole upper tier is almost complete and if its not finished today or tomorrow, it will almost certainly be completed on Monday. They've also put up the two huge steel structures on the south stand cores that takes the weight of the massive roof structures currently under construction on the pitch. I was told these would be in place by the end of April some weeks ago and it looks like its going to happen. Finished the morning off by checking the Stadium out from the overhead station at Finsbury park (as suggested by Bernard) and it looks just as impressive there as it does from most places. Saying that if you want to get the full 'wow' factor from AG I suggest you go to the top of Avenall road and do a right down Aubert park-it looks amazing! By the way, my fine was 50 quid-it would have gone up to 100 tomorrow! What a bummer!!! Come on Arsenal.
lol
April 09, 2005
michael jackson may have sex with kids but who cares, i mean , its michael jackson !they should let him off then he should moon walk outa court
lol
April 09, 2005
michael jackson may have sex with kids but who cares, i mean , its michael jackson !they should let him off then he should moon walk outa court
Hong Kong Gooner
April 09, 2005
Mr. Parker - it must give you and many other Chelsea supporters no end of joy to be part of a billionaire's financial experiment to turn a mid-ranking club into a huge brand.I'd rather support Doncaster Rovers.What is going on at your club is a disgrace to sport, however you dress it up.Other topics - centre back pairing for Middlesbro' is a fascinating issue.Arsene must be tempted to throw Sol in and give him a game before the semi-final and given his last few performances Senderos should return, but is it going too far to pair Sol and Senderos for the next couple of games?Cygan to be left out but I suspest if Sol is fit he'll play alongside Toure.And whoever mentioned it - I was also at the Michael Jackson concert at Wembley in 1988 and I'm proud to come on here and admit it.
jose1905
April 09, 2005
How good is this lupoli kid then ? Anyone watch youth/reserve games ?
Exiled In Newcastle
April 09, 2005
Steve - Harlow I believe.
Mr Parker's Dogbite
April 09, 2005
For N5er. I’m not so foolish to believe that Chelsea is about to become a huge money-making machine. Effectively, Roman’s investment in Chelsea is an enormous long-term financial and sporting experiment to see if a huge up front investment can transform an (I admit) middle-ranking club into a huge, successful sporting ‘brand’. Of course it’s too soon to see if it will work but early signs are promising. Regardless of Roman’s investment, Chelsea generated more revenue than any club in the world aside from Man United, Real Madrid and AC Milan last year. These sponsorship deals will push that higher still (and who says it’s the club that are paying Umbro the £25m?). Question: What two Champions League matches have had the highest British TV audiences since 1999? Answer: Arsenal v Chelsea in the quarter-final last year and Chelsea v Barcelona this year. Things are progressing well on the stadium redevelopment front too, I understand, with negotiations with the council to increase the capacity of Stamford Bridge to 50,000 plus well advanced. Look at the back pages of the paper every day - the ‘brand’ (and I hate that term) is developing fast.As for the levels of bitterness amongst rival fans, I absolutely stick by the opinion that Arsenal fans are much more resentful of Chelsea’s wealth (and success than most Man U fans). This board (and AWIMB) is dominated by anti-Chelsea threads with very few dissenting voices. There’s resentment on the United boards like Red Issue too but a lot more diversity of opinion about the Chelsea phenomenon. I called it fascinating before because I genuinely can’t understand why there’s a difference. Maybe because we’re local (though not traditional) rivals. Who knows?And Roman’s dosh drying up? It could happen. But I’m making the most of it while it lasts. On the other hand it could just be the start of something that will stand the test of time…
Judge JohnD
April 09, 2005
I don't think you should presume that Chelsea Village going into receivership would have scuppered Capt. Birdseye. He made his fortune buying liquidated companies from a friendly receiver, then selling off the assets and shafting the creditors, according to Tom Bower. And, in fact, that is exactly what happened with Chelsea. Bought it for a pound, backed all the assets into Chelsea Village, set up so that his interests and RBS were protected and left all the creditors to go whistle at the shell he left behind. And where was the mighty FA you might ask? Being told what to do by Ken? PtG, naturally, thought all this admirable whilst praising the CV development and doing a Mirhir on the Deins. Niall should read up on the mid 70's and The Irish Trust Bank. None of this, of course, recognized by that chav moralist. Who, by the way, forgot to mention that Sir Henry was the Mayor and MP for….Chelsea.
steve martin
April 09, 2005
Good afternoon, did I say the semi has sold out, or did I say I have a semi, sorry it's the champoo... I'm off home now, just got to remember where I live, any help, Hic!!!!
steve martin
April 09, 2005
I reckon, once the season has ended the media will have a field day at Chelseas expence... You won't be able to pick up a papers without "They brought the trophies"... So it's up to Boro, can we smash them again, I've lost count fo the 6's 5's and 4's we have scored against them...
steve martin
April 09, 2005
Did I say that the semi-final has sold out...
Phil O'Sofa
April 09, 2005
I think Bernard was out of order slagging off Sean, I assume he lives over here like me. I rarely post but this is really turning into a Chelsea site. What's wrong with you? We should be talking about Arsenal. I have never got to a game at Highberry and rely on this forum since I became a fan in 2003. Do you think Reyes will leave and will we buy Owen?
Mee
April 09, 2005
My last post was an attempt at being more charitable towards Chelsea, I didn’t quite manage it.
Mee
April 09, 2005
If Senderos gets the nod over a not fully match fit Campbell at Middlesborough tommorow, we must accept that at some point he will make a few mistakes. His recent performances bode well for the future and the search for a replacement CB has all but been called off. If he does have a less than perfect performance can we keep a sense of perspective? In the CL match on Wednesday both goalkeepers, generally considered to be among the finest in the world, were guilty of errors. Tony Adams formative years were characterised by a few errors (Van Basten) but he was allowed to develop into the kind of CB that John Terry would like to become.
david.d
April 09, 2005
chelsea deserve credit for what they have achieved so far this season. it hurt to see them putting four past bayern while we got knocked out by that very team. they seem to have mastered europe in half the time it has taken us and that is annoying but where i and other gooners are rightly p*ssed off is how they have just thrown money at everything and seem to have this arrogance about them that they can do what the **** they like. anyone who thinks abramovich hasnt changed the name of the game is a fool. the money they have spent is obscene and their success will never be appreciated or respected the way ours has by careful prudent management and not throw money at anything that moves. without abramovich they would not be homing in on their first title in 50 years thats for sure. however mark my words we will continue to compete make no mistake about that however much money they care to spend...
Niall
April 09, 2005
Thanks for that EEG...Knowing Cormwall just about eclipses Cannon Balls for Chelsea hatred (but he makes sense at the same time) I look forward to reading the replies to that one.
East End Gooner
April 09, 2005
No Rich, as N5er and Bored have pointed out, the sale by Bates was a firesale because the banks were just about to call in the key facilities keeping them afloat. Admin was the most likely but whatever way it was going Terry, Lampard, Gallas and the rest would have been sold off for shirt-buttons. So the Abramovich money wasn't just about going forward with no reference to prudent financial management, it was about rescuing the club from the affects of complete mismanagement in the past. Without the money they wouldn't be hovering around 4th or 5th, they would be lucky to be still in the top flight.
Bored
April 09, 2005
I think in time more and more people will get disillusioned with chelsea's trophy buying antics. But for now only those clubs affected directly (AFC, The Mancs) will feel particularly aggrieved that the strong footballing position they've earned over the years is being threatened by a mega rich bloke who didn't even support Chelsea. Didn't Liverpool have a banner in the Carling Cup Final that said "Respect must be earned not bought"...
Exiled In Newcastle
April 09, 2005
Rich - all it would have taken was Heathrow to be fogbound for a day and the chavs would have gone into receivership. 1 day away. So near...
Vince Ordinaire
April 09, 2005
Anything Chelsea win is meaningless. Instead of the Premiership trophy they should give Abramovich a giant receipt made of gold and diamonds. But I do think Mourinho should be given the Champions League Trophy, rectally.
Rich
April 09, 2005
To add to the 'would Chelsea be where they are without the money' debate, I think it's a blatently obvious NO. If my memeory serves me right they were 5th then 4th the two season before abro? Maybe with some of the good players they had already, Gallas, Terry, Lampard, Gudjohnson, Cudicini they could have over taken Liverpool, but they wouldn't have got anywhere near Arsenal or Man U. More importantly if you look at the bigger picture were'nt Chelsea some £60-80m in debt at the time, similar size debt to Leeds and look what happened to them. This would have led to Chelsea having to sell all assets ie. the players, and when the sharks of other clubs could smell blood then there would have been no garuntee that the players would have fetched top price. I mean look at Leeds getting mere pennies for players like Kewell, Bowyer, Keane. The more realistic outlook would have been Chelsea fighting relegation after flogging all their stars and not being able to buy new players. This is one of the main reasons for the bitterness towards Chelsea's success. They were badly managed and heading for a very uncertain future and it was solved in 5 minutes, through no hard work, as though incompitence had been rewarded. As for Mourinho being proved to be a great manager because of his trophies on limited budget at Porto, well I bet his budget was bigger than 99% of teams in Portugal. European trophies fair enough but the UEFA cup just proves that you can beat the teams ranked somewhere between 20-50 in Europe (Celtic in the final) and I've never seen an easier cup run for the final last year. Man U in decline, (which they should have lost) QF escapes me, then Depor and Monaco. The draw literally opened up for him.
Bored
April 09, 2005
I think N5er makes an excellent point regarding Chelsea. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at Leeds as an example of how not to run a football club after watching them crash and burn so spectacularly. But without the fortuitous intervention of Roman's Roubles, Chelsea would be in administration and be the Leeds of London.
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 09, 2005
N5er - spot on about the mancs view of our friends from up west. If anything they're more p****d off than us as they've always set great store by the fact their wealth was created by their own commercial activities.
N5er
April 08, 2005
Dogbite, regarding Roman pumping in less money as success increases. This is all very well in theory and if you win the CL every year for the next five years this may add a fair sum to your turnover. But the truth is mate its a piddle in the ocean to what expenditure you are making. 88M loss last year and no doubt a big one this year too!I've heard you intend increasing your sponsorship and have in fact ditched Umbo for Adidas and have a new shirt sponsor on the horizon but again this will be relatively small change and in fact your Adidas sponsorship will only add 3M a year for the next five years taking into consideration the 25M you have to pay compensation to Umbro. Any new shirt deal is also unlikely to add too much to the 6M pa you were getting from Emirates and all the additional revenues you are turning over relating to the Chelsea Village business model incorporated by Bates are desperately losing money. The only real avenue you have is to increase capacity at Stamford Bridge and I understand they have problems in this area too. So its unlikely that you will have any opportunity within the forseeable future of escalating your turnover any more than say 25M a year and thats if you win everything in the meantime! You talk about us (and Liverpool fans) moaning about unfair competition being akin to Sainsbury's whinging about WalMart buying Asda but surely you can see the difference? If this was fundamentally unfair to competition then the monopolies commission would be called in and I'm sure the shareholders of Walmart would be extremely concerned if the Company was throwing good money after bad which is what in effect Roman is doing by running up debts in a bid to satisfy his own ego and new found hobby! You also say you find it fascinating that Man United fans have far less trouble accepting that Chelsea's emergence is simply new competition. Thats not the case at all mate and they are equally as agrieved by the situation. Perhaps you don't visit their boards like you do the Arsenal (and I assume Liverpool ones). And yes when we next do win the league it will be extremely satisfying but not as satisfying as when we see the ultimate disintegration of your Club when Romans dosh dries up! ;_)
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Here you go Niall - other websites pay people for this stuff. As the new "moderator" you should be thanking me that I give it to you for free - http://www.football365.com/opinion/f365_opinion/story_148741.shtml
Juliano
April 08, 2005
"hail him as a genius" even.
Juliano
April 08, 2005
You've gotta laugh at such hindsight! So basically Mourinho could turn any team into world beaters, without Abramovich's money? We should draw a list of all the players this money has bought over the last two years, I think it would be interesting. Who of the current Chelsea squad was already there when Bates was the chairman? John Terry for sure, but then who? Gallas, Cole, Cudicini, Gudjonsen and that's about it. I don't deny Mourinho looks a top manager, one has to be to win the Champions League, but the way the media hail as a genius him you'd be forgiven to believe he is managing a promoted team. For jesus' sake Chelsea were runners up last season, and Champions League semi finalists! Let's get some bloody perspective.
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
It's self evident that Mourinho is a good coach,rather over - hyped though and more of a psychological motivater and mind-games player than a tactical genius, Nothing original about the football that he serves up. Many though have questioned his methods his Porto side was labeled 'divers' and cheats and the abuse of match officals to upset and influence them was at work then too. Even the drunken jock was upstaged at OT last season by Mourinho who had used the familiar winding up of the match officials before the CL tie, and benefited from a legit United goal scored by Scolles being disallowed by a nervous linesman that Mourinho had given verbal too through out the first half. That was a decisive turning point in Mourinhos fortunes - no Euro Cup - no Chelsea job. So after the linesman putting down his flag after first raising it to award a foul on the Barca keeper allowing Terrys goal to stand i don't see that Chelsea can have any complaints about Mourinhos ban after he over re-acted and lied over the Frisk affair to suit his own ends. The sending off of Drogba was legit he had been getting away with murder all night. And the whinging coming out of the Bridge over Ballacks dive is just laughable - what comes around...
N5er
April 08, 2005
Dogbite, how do you know Arsenal are leading the blocking of your G14 membership? To tell you the truth I don't believe we hold much sway at all within the organisation and only being an associate member and not a founding member it could well be that we don't even have a vote!?! Regarding controlling you from inside our "gang" as I pointed out earlier the wage/turnover ratio has not been resolved anyway despite there being a supposed deadline of 2005. You're probably right that Chelsea would be up there with Arsenal and Utd with Mourinho in charge even if he hadn't had untold millions to spend as you quite rightly say you had been challenging for the past 5 years or so. What you conveniently forget to mention though is that Bates started the ball rolling by gambling the future of your club by spending what he couldn't afford and you wouldn't have even been up there challenging if he hadn't taken a risk. And who is to say Mourinho (and Kenyon) would have come to you without knowing he was on a sure thing with Romans dosh?
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Niall - Clarke cannot be excused from turning an "assumption" into an outright lie. Whether he was justified in the assumption is irrelevant. He presented an untruth as fact and it happened to be proven that he was wrong. It is like me seeing someone standing over someone who has been the victim of an assault and telling a court I saw him assault him. I might have been making a reasonable assumption that he did but I would be out and out lying to say I saw it. And in doing so you would have to question my motivation. That is why I think UEFA HAD to act and were right in doing so. They knew WHY Chelsea were doing what they did and wanted to stop it. I was surprised the league didn't react in the same way after the Carling Cup semi.
Mr Parker's Dogbite
April 08, 2005
If Wenger had spent £200m and Jose nothing then I suppose the chances are Arsenal would be well clear in the league and quite possibly half way to reaching the CL semi-finals. However, interestingly, I'm not absolutely certain that would happen - Arsene's had a fairly mixed record when he's spent big hasn't he? Reyes? Wiltord? Jeffers? Last year's Arsenal side was great because every player knew the system and their team mates instinctively. Throw in a whole load of galacticos into that mix and the result, in the end, would be pretty unpredictable.As for your point about fair competition. Well I'd just say that that seems like a case being made for a closed shop. Only those clubs with tradition (and the large fanbase which goes with sustained success) should be entitled to challenge for honours. The way I see Roman influence proceeding is that increasingly less money will be pumped into the club as our success (and therefore our associated fanbase and revenue) increases. Effectively he's 'pump priming' the club. You lot (and Liverpool fans) moaning about unfair competition just seems akin to Sainsbury's whinging about WalMart buying Asda. I find it fascinating that Man United fans have far less trouble accepting that Chelsea's emergence is simply new competition. And just think - when you next win the league (as you surely will) think how satisfying it'll feel beating the Russian behemoth...
Niall
April 08, 2005
Mrs Parker's Dogbite, I think it's pretty fair to conclude though that although Mourinho's work and record at Porto was excellent and that what he did there proved he was an excellent coach of a side (in that he was able to organise a workman like outfit embellished with the talents of Deco and Maniche and some class defenders) that he would not have walked into the Premiership at a club with average resources and been able to immediately walk the Premiership. It has to be remembered that most of the players that have been crucial to Mourinho's success were already at the club brought in by Ranieri. I'm talking about Gudjohnsen, Duff, Lampard, Terry and even solid players like Gallas and Bridge. It also has to be remembered that many of the players bought to Chelsea before the arrival of Mourinho, were Robben, and Cech who have also been instrumental in your success this season. Most of these buys were not made under "average resources." In fact, bar Ferreria and Carvallho, Mourinho's signings have been questionable. Drogba has not looked a £24m player. Kezman has flopped. The big Czech midfielder looks nothing special and Tiago hasn't set the world on fire as well. Whereas in my opinion at the start of the season was once Mourinho came in it was only a matter of time before Chelsea won it, his immediate success is ultimately linked with Abramovich's money. What I will be fair in saying is: If you still had Ranieri, I think you would have been much less likely to be where you are now.
steve martin
April 08, 2005
Mr parker, thanks for posting a reasonble post, nice to be able to discuss without things getting out of hand... You right, Cheslea would be challenging, they have been there or there abouts over the last few years, but not enough to worry Arsenal too much, more so United as you finished above them last season... Jose has done the business at Porto, but the Euro is much better to discuss about him, as Portugese football, is about as good as Scottish football... I ask you in all fairness, what do you reckon would be happening NOw, if Wenger was given 200m at the begining of this season ans not the money Jose has been given... Football has to be run with competition, clubs should spend what they have, or at least borrow, with a mind to paying the sums back in loans... Chelsea have a benefactor, one that no one can match, it distorts the game...
Fergus
fergushay@hotmail.com
April 08, 2005
I have a spare ticket for the Semi-final, in the Arsenal end. Bought for £49.50. Am open to offers, email above address.
Mr Parker's Dogbite
April 08, 2005
In reply to Steve Martin, as a visiting Chelsea fan I can honestly say that if Mourinho had been in charge of Chelsea with only average resources at his disposal then I still think the club would be up there challenging Arsenal and Man U. Admittedly I doubt we would be 13 points clear but I still think he would have taken the side on. We *do* work harder than any other side on England right now and it's not Roman's money that's achieved that. It's Jose's supreme ability to motivate his players (plus his tactical nous and his relentless preparation).You ask how we know he's a great manager when he's spent a fortune? Well I'd just point at Porto for the answer to that. Consecutive European trophies with a maximum outlay of £3m (on Benni McCarthy). Not a bad record that. And that's leaving aside his record domestically.And you're also right that if things continue as they are the established order will try and rein Chelsea in. With United saying they have no money to spend this Summer and Wenger seemingly reluctant to spend your cash, there's a real chance we'll dominate the Premiership for some time to come. The same thing may very well happen in Europe. Which makes it all the more odd that the G14 (led by Arsenal and Liverpool) are blocking our membership. Letting us into your gang club gives you lot a much better chance of controlling us (our conduct towards other G14 clubs, our spending, our wage/turnover ratio) than leaving us outside.
Mee
April 08, 2005
Chelsea are not alone in having a wealthy benefactor, most Chairman use proportions of their personal wealth to galvanise their clubs - look at Delia at Norwich and the examples of Blackburn and Wolves. It’s the sheer scale of what Abramovich is doing which is distorting the market and which will in all likelihood eventually lead to legislation being passed to safeguard the notion of a balanced and competitive league structure.
steve martin
April 08, 2005
OWEN HARGREAVES has dismissed Chelsea as long-ball merchants and reckons the Premiership leaders would not be out of place in the Scottish League!The Bayern Munich midfielder refuses to write off his team’s Champions League prospects despite Wednesday’s 4-2 defeat at Stamford Bridge.And he believes the Blues are a poor second to the Arsenal team beaten by Bayern in the previous round of Europe’s premier club competition.The England international, 24, said: “Arsenal and Chelsea are totally different in the way they approach the game. Even when Arsenal were two goals down against us in the last round, they still tried to pass the ball through the middle. “But Chelsea knew they couldn’t hurt us with their passing and didn’t create a single chance playing that way. “They just banged long balls forward for Didier Drogba to flick on and he caused us a lot of problems with his size and heading ability.“It reminded me of when we played Celtic a couple of years ago and they were hitting lots of big high balls for John Hartson and Chris Sutton to flick on to Henrik Larsson.
Mee
April 08, 2005
Coke head Merson: Fair point about quality, I knew that part of my argument was slightly untenable, but my anger at the tone of some of the pro-chelsea posts distorted my sense of reason.
steve martin
April 08, 2005
Well well, all tickets sold for the FA Cup semi final...
steve martin
April 08, 2005
Chelsea - Arsenal, Champs League, has been like alternative dimensions, whereas Chelsea have played quite well, all the luck has gone their way, wher we have own goals against and bad back passes, they have own goals for and deflections going their way... Now a serious Q, one that should be easy for everyone to answer, inc any Chelsea guest on here at the moment, would Jose have made Chelsea what they are, if he had to manage them the same way as Arsene has had to do at Highbury... How the bloody hell can you tell how great a manager is, when he has spent a fortune... The media say he is the best, yet, Wenger has won the league three times in this country, with a lot less help than Jose gets... Chelsea are a very good side, but it's how it wa sput together that leaves a bad taste in the mouth... They may even be a victim of their own sucess in the years too come, if they keep on winnig, then the big boys will have too look again at how clubs are run... Arsenal and United use their own money, Chelsea are using a very rich mans money, he is using them as his personal hobby, football is becoming one mans hobby... It may seem OK! now, but if he keeps investing to dominate, the game is going to suffer big time...
My opinion
April 08, 2005
I think you'll find people at 99% of the clubs throughout the football league work their arses off for their club. Nothing special about Chelsea in that regard.
N5er
April 08, 2005
Like to think Abramovich would never have got control over Arsenal, 20% of the shares are with families that have had interests in the club since the 1920s and 30s. Another 40% are owned by board memebers Dein and Fiszman who obviously have their own vision of where they want Arsenal to be! Money talks of course but personally I wouldn't have wanted him (or any other sole owner) anywhere near my club. I'm a minor shareholder myself and it means something to me and I also enjoy attending the AGM (when I am in the UK) and suchlike. Wouldn't even mind if Roman was a life long fan of your club but hes just a JCL himself and it would kill me to see the club I have loved all my life being used as someones play thing! Just my two bobs worth, you'll have to reconcile your own conscience.
Darren
April 08, 2005
Jose - Fair enough but you can't divide the issue: It is ONLY Roman's money that has enabled you to challenge, end of. You can't say it's wrong to state the facts.
Niall
April 08, 2005
Jose, don't swear mate or your posts will be removed without prejudice. EEG, I think at the end of the day (as I can't be arsed getting drawn into this one today) UEFA have a lot to answer for on this one. Whereas the "smelling of roses" comment I made was the obvious bait left, I don't think anyone has come out of the affair with any credit. UEFA quickly dismissed Chelsea's comments as "lies" and whereas it appears that Rijkaard was spotted three times (by UEFA's own men) as well as Chelsea staff approaching the ref and then approaching the refs dressing room. I think Clarke's assumption would be drawn by many in that scenario. Mourinho boobed by the way he reacted so yes he did lie on it. However, Rijkaard has got away scot free and from a position last week where it looked like Chelsea were totally in the wrong, it has swung back to bite UEFA in the arse somewhat.
April 08, 2005
Jose,we are not in the position that your club were in under your former owner Bates when Abramovich flapped past in his helicopter. Nor have we gone 50 years without a title. So the answer is that we can be and are more selective about who owns our club. Let me ask you this - who do you think that Abramovich would sooner have bought if he had a choice - us - or Chelsea?. Spuds were going to take his money and so would Manure.They are only objecting to Glazer because of the massive financial baggage that he brings with him. No apologies needed about our past history the Sir Henry Norris one is old-hat,and needs to be loked at in the light of the benefits that his actions brought to football in London. I doubt that Abramovichs tenure at Chelsea will do likewise. People are not queing up to watch Chelsea either and the team is not all that is artificial - so is the football and boring everyone stiff, it will be interesting to see how Sky's viewing figures pan out on Chelsea compared to our unbeaten 49 run which had stadiums sold out and massive WW viewing TV figures.
Bored
April 08, 2005
Chelsea fans: The fact that it has taken one of the world's richest men to buy you the title, does that not cheapen the achievement for you? Then again if Arsenal hadn't won the league for half a century perhaps we wouldn't complain either....but that doesn't make it right.
N5er
April 08, 2005
From G14s site >>> The items on top of G-14’s list of priorities are: • Representation of clubs in the decision taking process as regards international club football and any other matters having an impact on clubs. • Strategy for the exploitation of Media and other commercial rights related to international club competitions. • Financial health of the football industry. • Compatibility of club football and national team football. (Harmonized international calendar, responsibilities to be assumed by each party) They wish: • To obtain favourable conditions for the clubs in the context of the implementation of the Champions League media rights policy which corresponds to the terms of the Agreement between UEFA and the European Commission promulgated on 4 June 2002. • To find solutions which allow clubs to secure a positive financial balance, despite stagnating or decreasing revenue streams, and to give the G-14 member clubs tools aimed at limiting their expenditure. A maximum rate of a club’s turnover has been identified as target not to be exceeded when allocating overall salary cost. The deadline for reaching this target is 2005. • To develop the dialogue with football governing bodies in order to improve their understanding of the clubs’ concerns as regards the Harmonized International Calendar of competitions and the reduction of players’ workload, to be equally supported by national team and club football. >>> These have been goals sort by G14 for some time and not just since the emergence of Abramovich. Regarding the salary vs turnover figure, its been suggested that it should be between 65-75% but no agreement has been forthcoming. As such Chelsea have not been barred from admittance because they do not satisfy this criteria, in fact they tried to join just before us and were turned down. G14 admittance is by invitation only and any member club can veto anothers membership claim.
Darren
April 08, 2005
Jose - you're just filthy!
jose1905
April 08, 2005
Chelsea have history , just not a history of success and honours. we still have the same name , same ground , same location , same blue kit ... i love tradition and would never want us to move ground or change our name ( cough .. ) no matter what the financial reward may be .We are getting an old school 'rampant lion' badge back next year and are getting the old pride of london flag back providing it passes fire safety regulations ... we still have our working class roots , in the mathew harding lower all us yobs are still going and singing .. we are still chelsea , just now we are filthy rich.
jose1905
April 08, 2005
Chelsea have history , just not a history of success and honours. we still have the same name , same ground , same location , same blue kit ... i love tradition and would never want us to move ground or change our name ( cough .. ) no matter what the financial reward may be .We are getting an old school 'rampant lion' badge back next year and are getting the old pride of london flag back providing it passes fire safety regulations ... we still have our working class roots , in the mathew harding lower all us yobs are still going and singing .. we are still chelsea , just now we are filthy rich.
Darren
April 08, 2005
Note to self - must buy tap shoes for the day Roman pulls the plug. Wouldn't like to dance on Chelsea's grave in anything other than the finest!
Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005
Jose - we did. And fair play to the board for doing so. Other clubs turned him down as well, but the chavs had no choice but to accept because capt birdseye had taken them to within 24 hours of receivership.
Coke head Merson
April 08, 2005
Inner city school, Eton and Harrow, is that not a question of money, when it should be a question of the quality of the pupil? My only points are that all clubs attempt to buy the title its just a question of how big the pot is, and as you quite correctly point out players are mainly drawn from "working class" Bowyer being a fine example, and the abuse that Le Saux use to take being an example of the working class mind set of most supporters. Arsenal are a fine club but the bitterness you display towards Chelsea must have them rolling up.
jose1905
April 08, 2005
so would you turn romans money away?
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
For those who ask why so much chelsea chat on here- the answer is that their supporters and appologists keep posting their hype and have to be answered. How does Mourinhos genius make all of those deflected goals keep flying in then 'not really arsenal?.' Because without them Chelsea would not be so far ahead in the league and out of the CL and possibly would not even won the LC Cup either. They are just down to luck.I cannot recall any team getting the amount that this Chelsea team have in a season before. Working on the assumption that this will not continue to happen on the laws of probability - then will Chelsea really find it so easy next season ?. They will get their Mickey Mouse Double at least this time around but if they fail in the CL then that will not seem so extra-ordinary after Mourinho and his supporters boasted that they would win 4 trophies .If you do the talk you gotta do the walk or keep quite.
Bored
April 08, 2005
Former Tottingham: I think you are missing the point. Its not that Arsenal or any other team have perfect pasts, its that Chelsea's dark arts are happening now on a scale never seen before, and which threaten the viablity of the game. Im glad that as a sperz fan you are proud of your teams illustrious history of mid table heroics. However, for the rest of us who aim a little higher, watching another mid table titan spend someone elses money and be lauded for it seems a bit sad.
East End Gooners
April 08, 2005
Ah "not really former Arsenal" - as suspected but strange that you felt lying about it might lend some credence to your views? Do they give lessons in it at the Bridge? And yes I will be going. I will be abusing the corporate "hospitality" and sitting just down from the Russian ladies under their blankets and kebab heaters.
Darren
April 08, 2005
Former Arsenal - you can drag up Henry Norris and quote history, ironic really considering Chelsea have none whatsoever, other than that of being a nasty, racist little clubs who had a habit of making revolting little idiots their club captain. John Terry's best mate was Jody Morris. Says it all really.
jose1905 (former arsenal)
April 08, 2005
in 2008 uefa start the homegrown rule where 4 or 5 ( i think) players in the 25man squad must be homegrown ( under 18 and been at club several years) to be allowed to enter the champions league - or something like that .Does anyone else just think that chelsea and arsenal and the other top sides will just sign up all the best kids and rob smaller clubs of promising talents ?
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Exiled - I doubt UEFA has the power to do that. The G14 as a private organisation does though and I thought that is why Chelsea are excluded. They are unable to comply with the agreement that clubs will have a wage bill no greater than 75% of turnover.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005
Being up here I (obviously) talk football with bar codes fans a lot, and obviously the situation with the ruskies gets mentioned. The distaste with the situation is certainly not unique to Gooners, thats for certain. I suppose in some ways it's even worse for the geordies because they've seen a team that was at their level year after year leapfrog artificially to the top table. One last thought - what happened to UEFA's muted rules about clubs being self sufficient?
Mee
April 08, 2005
Cokeheads list of former ‘criminals’ wearing the Arsenal shirt is evidence of something that is common to all football, namely that football reflects the values of the society we live in and is still predominantly a working class game. To suggest however that Chelsea can as a club can be in any way compared to Arsenal is akin to saying that there is no difference between an inner city comprehensive and Eton or Harrow, ask the Hill-Wood‘s.
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
To that end, there is no way they were vindicated at all. The leaking of an insignificant part of the report which on PROPER analysis lends no support to the actual Chelsea claims is an (I thought) rather weak attempt to deflect attention by causing confusion. What surprised me most as I said the day after the game was that no-one made much of the fact that it was absolutely a Mourinho ploy aimed at the second leg and had **** all to do with any impropriety during the first leg. The Drogba decision was utterly understandable. Drogba got away with a couple of silly fouls before he was booked and continued to play in a silly way also complaining too much to Frisk on a number of occasions. He then left his foot in in a way that sees many, many strikers booked in football throughout Europe. To make anything of the booking is again to swallow one of Mourinho's red herrings.
'not former'
April 08, 2005
regarding the allegations ... basically frisk and rijkaard spoke when they shouldnt have and something dodgy happened, no doubt, but chelsea jumped the mark and exagerated and frisk totally denied ... both exagerated in opposite ways so both look like mugs now.
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Wow Niall - unlike you to be quite so far wide of the mark. For a start Chelsea's allegations were that Frisk entered Barcelona's dressing room, then amended to Rikjaard being in his. Both were said to be categoric as having been actually witnessed. Both untrue therefore correctly described as "lies". It is a lie to state something is fact because you know that insinuation based on suspicion is not sufficient. Secondly, Mourinho's allegations were directed at Frisk who the subsequent report suggests was entirely correct and proper in all dealings. Mourinho told Frisk "you cannot do this. I will report you". Whether Rikjaard tried to talk to Frisk or not is completely irrelevant to the lies and incorrect allegations of the Chelsea management team. They were proven to have lied even by the basic geography of the stadium.
goonerguru
April 08, 2005
You didn't quite get that right,should have read,"he is going to go down as the greasest manager ever"
Coke head Merson
April 08, 2005
Three cheers for former Arsenal. Terry, a night club punch up yob...true....Alan Sunderland, the zebera crossing killer...true. Terry the cheat,true. Pires, the diving French git (ask Portsmouth)true. David Hiller, stealing bags from airports, Adams, Merson need I say more? Chelsea buy the title "shock" (Blackburn did that) what did Arsenal do with the 23.5 millon from the Anelka saga, give it to charity, of course not. Yes Arsenal played wonderful football last season, and Im a Yid, Chelsea this season were awful, they will win games,but not friends, but was that not true of Mr Graham's Arsenal side. Take the blinkers off chaps, and why so concerned with everything Chelsea?
Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005
Muppet - for history to be ancient it has to have happened a long time ago, not be happening now. Ever heard of 'current affairs'. Read anything and you find loads of what's happening now and very little with regards to 'ancient history'. As for Norris, although he was banned the reasons were at best (as described earlier) spurious in an age when the likes of mancs and car thieves were both done for match fixing. Also, it should be pointed out that the total amount (from memory) was about £500, at a time when (his defence) the club 'owed' him vast sums. Not quite the same now, is it?
N5er
April 08, 2005
that should have read ' moving Fulham into Stamford Bridge' of course! BTW talking of SB seems some idiot in their past couldn’t spell otherwise it would have been known as Sandford Bridge! And it has nothing to do with the famous battle up north tho' some chavs will argue black and blue that it does!
Niall
April 08, 2005
Blah blah blah, I don't think anyone can make a case in defence of UEFA after the latest revelations, even if Mourinho wants to influence the referee for the second leg or not. Quite clearly, Chelsea have been vindicated by the revelation that Rijkaard attempted to influence the referee on three occasions during the half time interval and even if Rijkaard didn't physically enter the dressing room, he may as well have - so close was he to the door. Leaving aside that it was Chelsea involved, this does call into question UEFA's handling of the incident since they dismissed the Chelsea claims as "lies" with such vigour. Is there a bias here from UEFA to the old guard big clubs? Why didn't they investigate fully and why have these facts emerged to embarrass UEFA after they had already (I'm sure to their relief) enforced an admittedly pathetic fine and two match ban (excluding walkie talkies supposedly, hmm) on Mourinho and the pathetic fine on the club. Was Frisk influenced by Rijkaard's actions after all, given that the Drogba sending off was indeed the wrong decision? Something not quite right about this whole affair and now its Chelsea who are coming out smelling of roses and Mourinho able to tell his bosses who refused to back him, I told you so.
not really former arsenal
April 08, 2005
the point being , no one mentions it as its ancient history and the same will be with chelsea.If gooners kept their traps shut and didnt mention 'Romans dodgy money' . Show respect and it will come back to you yea .And how can you critisise the way jose wants football played, you have to realise he is going to go down as the greatesed manager ever. His tactics , man managment skills , methodoligy and everything else is a cut above all that has been before him, he is so astute in every department its mind blowing. Bayern were solid and played narrow defensively so the best option was to use the targer man (drogba) and play off him , its not about route 1 and being boring, jose will do whatever it takes to get the job done ! he is the special one.Not meaning to start arguements ... is any of you coming to the bridge 20/04 ?
Karlos
KarlosIRL@aol.com
April 08, 2005
Just a thought in relation to the Spurs game later this month. As this is the last time Arsenal will wear Red and White at Highbury (thanks to next years 'Redcurrant' strip) against our North London rivals, I thought it might be fitting to have some a display of some sort, highlighting our history of Red and White in the North London Derby's - maybe a card display of red and white with the top tier of the northbank saying '71 and the lower with '04 highlighting our dramatic league victories against Spurs in Red and White would be appropriatejust a suggestion and maybe others could forward suggestions to Redaction (the fans group) to mark this occasion
N5er
April 08, 2005
Former Arsenal (as if!) dear oh dear its haul out poor old Henry Norris time is it? Thought I'd heard them all about old Henry but now theres 'match fixing' and 'bribing the council' to contend with is there? Well run along old chap and find us just one link relating to these allegations. In fact the only ‘significant findings' of the commission set up to pursue financial irregularities against Norris was that between 1921 and 1924 his chauffer had been paid by the club and that in 1926 the club had paid for his motor car” Hardly earth shattering hey? BTW a little bit of a (ahem) history lesson for you. Without the great man your poxy club would never have been formed. Had Norris taken up the offer of moving your chavs into Stamford Bridge then your team would be Fulham!
goonerguru
April 08, 2005
Henry Norris might have been a lot of things but he never robbed a whole country of all there wealth and then ****** off.
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
And "Former Arsenal" says it all. What makes you think anyone would listen to anything about football from someone who manages to become a former fan of anyone? The worst "fans" in the game. If you are "former Arsenal" you never were in the first place.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
I would imagine just about all Arsenal fans have heard of Norris, and to even think of comparing his record to the corruption of the current Chelsea regime is plainly laughable.
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
So while I am more than happy to not discuss Chelsea (and also quite happy not to watch them along with the many other TV viewers that haven't been bothering since Christmas and are making Sky **** themselves). I will continue to react to the unpleasant tongueing that some people insist on giving them. Its not even as if they put you in a dilemma by playing attractive football. They are on the whole "hoof it" merchants. So I cant quite work out what this niceness is about. If it is a desire to be seen as "grown up" dont bother. No-one cares. You can and should be as childish as you like when it comes to football. If it is through an actual admiration then it is plain dirty. Those who say it is Arsenal's fault for being inconsistent are stupid. Chelsea can break all records. If you think we would have won the title by defending a little bit better you are kidding yourselves.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
Surname means nothing to me, Niall. Again, I had difficulty not throwing up when I read some of the posts about Chelsea. As EEG, Exiled and Cannon Balls have said in various ways, they are a revolting club supported by vile people. I like N5er's idea of G14 forming a breakaway league and Chelsea not being invited into it. By the way, just got a text from Gaz who's gone to Highbury today and someone from the ticket office told him that our allocation of 32000 for the semi-final is now very close to being sold out. Yesterday he told me that he'd read that of the four semi-finalists, only Newcastle had sold out at that point, so maybe Man Utd's two-bob muppets from Devon, Kent and Sussex are losing a bit of enthusiasm these days.
East End Gooners
April 08, 2005
The people in control have been riding roughshod over other clubs and the authorities - to the extent they organise a meeting with one of our key players which can have no other effect but to destabilise him two days before one of our biggest games while at the same time their manager complains that he is "disgusted" by approaches to him mid-season because he is concentrating on the season. And then we have the toadying GunGun lauding a "fair and reasonable" post by gaz from OZ which tells us how hard done by Chelsea have been while completely ignoring (or more likely missing the point) that Mourinho uses these "issues" as a way of putting pressure on second leg refs (as he did in the Carling Cup semi as well) and ignoring the success of a tactic that managed to get a ref like Collina to have a pony game culminating in missing a blatent act of cheating that kept Chelsea in the competition in the first place.
Former Arsenal
highburynomore@hotmail.com
April 08, 2005
You guys talk about 'ethics' in football and rant about chelsea? Are you joking ? Being Arsenal fans im sure none of you have heard of Henry Norris , the crook , the match fixer , the business man who brought south londons woolwich arsenal and moved them up north by bribing the council to get permission to do so ? No one mentions this now , as its ancient history , and no one will remember Romans money in 50 years, they will just be the great chelsea team that dominated the 2000's so stop sulking and talking b0ll0x as you know im correct.Check google and look at Arsenals corrupt history, sp*rs are the only real team from north london and it pains to say it as i hate sp*rs .You do not have a fair and hard worked history , how do you think the marble halls of highbury where payed for ??? You were made big by a crook who bribed, fixed , cheated and even moved and renamed the club to get success and to make himself money. Arsenal have and have always had no atmosphere at games , no nothing fans , all woman and kids have always supported arsenal ,as they are the club to follow when you know nothing about the game. You and I both know its true .And when you leave the library and go to cashburden you will have a poorer atmosphere than before as all the fans from different stands and tiers will be mixed up ! dont critisise clubs when you are not ones to talk !
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
See its hard not to react to the kind of nonsense you see on here. OK - I know we have Cannon Balls but the rest of us dont bother to post about Chelsea until you see oily cringing "being big about it" "appreciation" on an Arsenal site. It is ****ing annoying. They are and have always been a nasty club. John Terry and others are a few years down the line from figting in nightclubs and baring their arses to American tourists on September 11. The financial approach being taken is hugely damaging to the game (as well as destroying its spirit and history it has direct financial implications in re-inflating a transfer market and wage culture that was in the process of a sensible correction).
Niall
April 08, 2005
Come on Sean O'Phist is clearly a wind up, re-read the surname.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
Sean O'Phist, I've never moaned before about people who rarely post themselves (and thus contribute very little to its content) but read it, and then have the utter cheek to do a post moaning about what others choose to write about, but I was astonished by your smug attitude. If you're not happy with the forum's content, do you think you should provide us with a list a topics that can be discussed and everything else gets deleted by any moderators?
Gunfire
April 08, 2005
Sorry Alex but your knocking of JAR is wrong headed. The guy has bundles of talent and has shown in recent games some real will to win. I wathed him in Spain and he was immense. Your ascertion that we'll have 17 million on the bench is wrong. His fee was less than that. The figure refers to appearence fees and bonus payemnts. I hope he stays.
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
I had to smile on reading the quotes from John Terry moaning about the Ballack penalty that's put the Chavs chances of getting in to the next round in jeopardy. It sounds like a typical load of Chavs Ballacks . Terry says that: "There'taking the p**s and that Ballack thing." Yes John like for instance fouling your opponents GK so that you can get a free header on goal like in the Barca game ???. Without that bit of gamesmanship you would not be in the competition now. Both incidents are in the same category - it's called cheating. The poor old Chavs who are starting to believe all of the English media hype about themselves (remember when we had it?) are not impressing every one. Owen Hargreaves reckons that they are only long-ball merchants and Arsenal play better football, in fact he rates Chelsea only on a par with Scotish club Celtic football wise. Bayern Munich beat Celtic in the CL earlier 3-1 in Germany, and Hargreaves says that they can do the same to the Chavs when they turn up there having conceded 2 goals at the Bridge to the Germans - and having lost their last two away games in the CL and also having failed to keep a clean sheet in any competition since January. This competion is notorious for teams having scored big at home getting turned over away - when they have conceded goals also in the home leg.
Alex
April 08, 2005
Agree with previous posting about Babel of Ajax. Looks real quality. Like a young Klivert, strong, fast, and great feet. Saw him last night against Heerenveen. 18, and already in the first team of Ajax and Holland! If Aliadiere goes (or even Reyes- I still hold hope), he would be perfect for Arsenal, but it won't happen. Still unimpressed by Maxwell, can't see why he's worth 8M. Mascherano (Saw him play aginst Argentinian Arsenal) would also make a great signing as Gilberto is are only truly defensive MF, but is small and it also won't happen. Like the sound of Toulanlan of Nantes (though I havn't seen him). I think another quality French signing could be great for us, could rekindle are distingtive style of play: fluid passing and movement. Think of another Henry, Viera, Pires, Wiltord (in his better moments), Anelka joining the mix. I think our style has been weakened a bit by the introduction of RVP and JAR (when they play obviously), and has become a little more incoherant as a result. They will adapt in time probably, but their schooling is different. Reyes incisting on short passes in tight situations (which never come of) for example is typically Spanish. RVP needs to learn more from Dennis, but has not yet gelled like he did at Feyenoord (he already has a UEFA Cup medal, which is more than most of his team mates have to show for from their exploits in Europe!)
MARCUS
April 08, 2005
This is quite a good Chelsea site now!
Alex
April 08, 2005
The Ryan Garry case is one of many. Arsene has talked about his concern over so many young players having major surgery, while they are still growing. He then, however, talks about his young players being 'physically prepared' for the PL by the club, while they are still growing. Too much is expected and demanded on such young frames, and too much pressure is placed on thier shoulders, especially the young lads who already from a young age are supporting thier families (this is the reason some give for such a high rate of heart trouble suffered by African players). For every one Cesc, their are many more that fail, and I wonder what price they pay for trying?
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
Jose Mourinho takes a two week holiday in Bankok on returning to England after a few days he notices that his penis is turning blue and shrinking. Alarmed by this development he goes to see a specialist to find out what the problem is. The doctor takes a look at Jose's todger and shaking his head sadly says: " You have got Bankok Brucellosis Berry-Berry. "I had another man in here with this disease last year - there is no known cure. "Your penis will have to be amputated that is all i can do." Mourinho rushes back to his office at Stamford Bridge and sits head in hands sobbing into a Chelsea scarf that he is clutching to his face. Suddenly Peter Kenyon the ManU supporter director of Chelsea walks in: "What's oop chuck?." he asks. Mourinho relates his sad tale to Kenyon, asking him: "What shall i do?." Kenyon laughs. "I had the same problem last year - the doctors will tell you anything to get more money out of you - don't believe a word of it." "Phew!, thanks Pete", replies Jose Mourinho: "So i do not have to have my penis amputated then". Kenyon smiles: "Of course not Jose it falls of by it's self in the end."
Alex
April 08, 2005
Looks like Reyes is staying after all. He's obviously realised that RM don't want him, and we're his best option. He won't be sold because we'll never get all our money back. This could have bad repercussions. I don't think he's good for team spirit, and I don't think his 'this will do for now' attitude will go down too well either. I would prefer him to go, to leave some room for Quincy, Aliadiere etc., because if he does not improve markedly, we will have 17M on the bench week in, week out.
Alex
April 08, 2005
I also don't have anything against the Chelsea players. The purring in the press about Lampard,''if he was foreign we would all be saying how technically gifted he is''(ITV, BM game), is starting to grate. It's because he British that all the fuss is being made. But that's it. I think that's why their game against us was so good. No bad blood, no nasty tackles, no cheating, just two teams trying to win.
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
Strange how these first time Arsenal supporters keep popping up all with the same message - be nice to Chelsea. Blimey it's supposed to be an Arsenal board this - why the next thing you know we will be getting messsages urging on the 'Boys in Green' and worse still even an unlikely silly discussion about whether Damien Duff is world-class!!!; or even a lecture on grammar from Profesor Mick or one yet again from GunGun on his favourite topic -Chelsea urging us to follow the advice of the first time posters and not be nasty to them, you know i have a feeling that were we pouring gushing praise upon Mourinho and co that Mick-GunGun and all-sorts would not be telling us to stick to posting only about Arsenal.
old man of hoy
April 08, 2005
Let us hope that Ryan Garry's battle with his terrible injuries is a winning one. If ever a player deserved some good luck it is that young man. I wonder if Chelsea's success is being as agonised over by the fans of other clubs as it is by ours? I imagine many neutrals are happy to see somebody other than United orArsenal win the title. Some of us seem to be taking a very high moral ground when it comes to the Chels - for me it is simply about respecting their manager and players, not the club, its owner,executives or fans. On the playing side i accept they have had a great season - if that is distasteful then i am a man of distaste. An elderly Italian Jewish man wanted to unburden his guilty conscience by talking to his Rabbi. "Rabbi, during World War II, when the Germans entered Italy, I pretended to be a 'goy" and changed my name from Levi to Spamoni and I am alive today because of it." "Self preservation is important and the fact that you never forgot that you were a Jew is admirable," said the Rabbi. "Rabbi, a beautiful Jewish woman knocked on my door and asked me to hide her from the Germans. I hid her in my attic and they never found her." "That was a wonderful thing you did and you have no need to feel guilty." "It's worse Rabbi. I was weak and allowed her to repay me for my efforts with her sexual favours." "You were both in great danger and would have suffered terribly if the Germans had found her. There is a favourable balance between good and evil and you will be judged kindly. Give up your feelings of guilt." "Thank you, Rabbi. That's a great load off my mind. But I have one more question." "And what is that?" "Should I tell her the war is over?"
mcquilkie
April 08, 2005
American, I think it's just coincidence that Kewell and Viduka are injured: they've both had relatively injury-free careers until the last 12 months or so. There are still a few healthy Aussies running around in the Premiership - we can look forward to tackling Lucas Neill and Brett Emerton in the Cup semi next week, for instance. Anyway, I'm quite happy for Viduka to miss out on Saturday's match, what with his record of scoring winning goals against us (2001/02 and 2002/03; both at Highbury, strangely enough).
N5er
April 08, 2005
Hey and believe it or not I hold no bitterness to the Chelsea team themselves. They have deserved their success this year and its strange but I don't even dislike any of their players! Its purely the economic skullthuggery and unrealistic financial muscle that they are imposing on the rest of football that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This from a club that have only one year since the formation of Chelsea Village in the mid 90's made a profit and that was from the sales of flats in 1998/99. I wouldn't even mind if Roman could be seen as some kind of sponsorship benefactor of the club as in donating cash which makes its way to the P&L. They have Group losses of over 130M at 30 Jun 2004 and likely to be close on 200M by this seasons end. They state they intend to break even by 2010 which is a complete joke. They may not make a monetary loss that season but for them to be in the black overall by that time is an impossible dream!
N5er
April 08, 2005
The business of football has changed dramatically over the past decade or so and not all for the better. Its dog eat dog out there and fortunately the Arsenal board have managed to grab a fair slice of the corporate pie themselves. That said I'm not sure that clubs being able to negotiate their own broadcasting deals (as they do in Spain and Italy) will do the English game any good whatsoever. With regard the neanderthal in SW London I find their whole business premise particularly 'vulgar'. As if throwing conventional economic business practice out of the window is not enough their blatant disregard for established footballing protocols and ethics is a disgrace. It would be ironic if G14 (what with their long time aim at bringing in an imposed salary cap dependant on % of turnover) formed their own European super league and excluded the Chavs.
Alex
April 08, 2005
I wonder if Jose's thinking is win at all costs this season in order to create a winning atmosphere at a club which has never really had one, then as that takes hold, style and ethics can become more important? Fergy has a similar ethic, when you're down, or up against superior opposition, cheat, then form will follow. This is what they did to us this season, though Fergys team always cheat a bit, though are behaviour left something to be desired at Highbury. Having said all that, look at Jose's Porto teams. I think the way Jose has set himself up as the 'next Fergy' is very clever. He is not setting himself in opposition like Wenger, just making it obvious that his time has come. This must be what all the buddy, buddy, sharing wine, 'wen I've won what he has' routine is all about. He's even better at cheating, and calling Fergys bluff when he cheats. All right, all right enough about Chelsea. Mee- agree. American, keep them coming. Also thanks for the Ryan Garry story. Also agree- ouch! Team for Saturday- Lehmann, Cole, Senderos, Toure, Lauren, Reyes, Viera, Gilberto, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry. Blimy! thats almost a first choice eleven!
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
'Boro isn't playing too well. What's up with the Aussie players? Kewell at LFC, Viduka at 'Boro. Can one of our Oz posters comment on that? I expect us to win and win comfortably. I hope I'm not jinxing us. The injury gave Henry the rest he needed and we've got most of our first team back. I'd like a win and a clean sheet if that's not asking too much. **** I don't think anyone spent much time talking about the merits of their punishment. The Chelsea issue is larger than that. Its a 'future state of football' issue. It affects ManYoo more than us I think. We've learned to build a team on unknown players and turning them into stars. Man Yoo only know how to be established stars and they'll suffer more. **** The Arsenal of the last month is a different Arsenal. I'd be very worried if I were Man Yoo. The Bolton FA Cup away win sticks out more than anything else. Fat Sam was sure he'd get to the semis or at the very least get a replay. Then a clean sheet against Blackburn away again. Man Yoo had the Rovers at home and got a nil nil draw. Unlucky. But still we were just dominating away. I have a strange feeling we're going to finish the season very very strong. Everyone will be healthy and the injured players will be against clus with tired legs. The youth have made our bench stronger. Bringing Cesc off the bench may even be an improvement and make us stronger in some games. I really think we'll beat Chelsea at the Bridge.
Alex
April 08, 2005
Though I of course agree that it is sickening that Chelsea have used 'blood money' to buy success, ethics in modern football is a hard argument to make. We have made a lot of money from our involvement with Nike for example, which has a shameful human rights record. Sweat shops, no unions, child labour etc. Also, though I agree that Man U and Arsenal have spent money that they have earned, and the lack of competition in the PL is more down to the likes of Liverpool, Newcastle, and Spurs not keeping up, the splitting up of TV money has some doubts hanging over it. The formation of the PL itself, which I assume the Arsenal chairmen were in favour of, has not been exactly good for the lower league football, just ask Wrexham! Incedently if you want to have Arsenal shirts without supporting Nike, the well known (I hope this is not seen as advertising) 'old fashioned' shirt co. has far more ethical manufacturing practices.
Sean O'Phist
April 08, 2005
First time poster, long time observer. Aren't there any moderators on this site? Why do we have to read all this nonsense about Germans, sausages and Chelsea? I come on here to read about Arsenal. What do you think the team will be this weekend? Blimey, wouldn't surprise me if someone started posting about philosophy next.
****
April 08, 2005
Ballacks and Bayerns consistant diving are also a threat to football. Arsenal could well be on the receiving end of this kind of German gamesmanship soon. And if Beckenbauer becomes Uefa boss, the refs will do all they can to please him. It does not mean they will be corrupt but they will be keen to keep in with him.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005
You know I'm getting pig sick of being told how to feel about the chavs. I hate 'em, always have and always will. End of.
GunGun
April 08, 2005
You see Gaz`s message from Oz is the way to discuss Chelsea. Matter of fact and level-headed. No hate or violence or threatening noises. Forum, please adhere to this style which befits Arsenal much more. Sleep well, Cannon Balls.
Mee
April 08, 2005
American: When the rest of the forum descends into a great blanket of blue gloom, your posts are characterised by their unwavering enthusiasm, belief, optimism and faith in all things Arsenal - keep them coming!
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
We were 3rd the year before but we weren't really the faves for the league if I recall.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
Wenger took the league by storm in '98, unforseen. Chelsea doing it this season. Forseen to a certain extent but not to the degree that they have done it. Next season..yes a cliche` but even with the money I think they'll see it hard to repeat. This could be different if they buy well in the summer. Its not so much who they can afford, that's not a problem, they can pay any transfer fee and wage to any player on the earth. Its finding the players that will work in their system. If they do get Gerrard, Adriano or other players that have been mentioned they could be even stronger if that's possible. 2 things they have to see if they can overcome. 1) A match or two that nicks away their confidence and 2) injuries to Lampard or Terry or even Cech.
gaz from Oz
April 08, 2005
I note on Soccernet that in fact the Barcelona coach did approach the ref at half time. Chelsea and Mourinho have been hard done by over this issue. UEFA have taken action because it did not occur in the dressing room as alleged by Chelsea. It did happen and in my view the second half decisions went against Chelsea. But UEFA have taken no action against Barca. If it had happened to Arsenal I am sure we would have complained & I think this is too often a problem. Man U have been accused of confronting refs at half time and no action is taken against them. Obviously the FA and UEFA support this type of action. But maybe only if you are from one of the big clubs. Yesterdays penalty in the last minute against Chelsea was again a disgrace. I am not a Chelsea lover but merely want some consistency. I know that this could quite easily have been us in the same position. Chelsea will win the league and deserve to do so. I don't think Arsenal supporters can have any complaints - simply they were consistent and we weren't. But it would be nice for us to play them off the park and stick away our chances when we play them.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
Exiled, how did we get in when Man Yoo and Liverpool were already in it then? lol. Surely Gill, Kenyon and Fergie would have said hell no.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
Well, we may not have as many footie violence incidents as Engalnd but when we do, we go over the top: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7420306/
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
By the way, I know my grammar is horrible. I'm too impatient and write as I'm thinking without spell checking or checking grammar. I'll try to slow down and write more patiently. Apologies.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
Mo, why is it okay for a Russian oligarch to do with a west London club okay, but if the same thing is done by a multinational corporation or a government its widely criticized (as well it should, including the ones here)?
david.d
April 08, 2005
with the news that senderos is fit i sincerely hope that arsene brings him straight back into the team. it is too much of a coincidence that against sheff utd(0-0) portsmouth(3-0) bayern munich(1-0) bolton (1-0) and blackburn(1-0) we did not concede a goal. common denominator? senderos played in every game. i know its only early days but i think we have an outstanding centre back on our hands who will get better and better. surely arsene will bring him back in at the expense of cygan. what happens on saturday will give an indication of how highly senderos is rated by the boss. im not saying wenger doesnt fancy him as a player because it is obvious he does but if senderos comes in at cygan's expense then that will be the biggest indication that senderos has pushed cygan into fourth place centre back and moved up a place to no 3 behind sol and kolo. cygan does a good job for us and gets undeserved criticsm sometimes but its time for him to pushed behind senderos. we need a win against middlesbrough to keep utd at bay who should beat norwich but it wont be easy. it looks like viera and gilberto will be reunited once again which bodes well. keep winning and 2nd place is ours. COME ON ARSENAL!!!
Dave
April 08, 2005
You see. You despise Chelsea and their financial power. But you fail to recognize that Beckenbauer will support this big money industry as he is involved in multi-national business contracts worth millions and millions. Platini is the cleaner man for Uefa believe you me.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005
G14/17 - the chavs won't get in. As I understand it to join you have to be invited after a unanimous vote of member clubs.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
I wish I could find the link but earlier in the day on newsnow, search word: arsenal, there was a report that Sol's brohter, John was arrested for a fight with a uni student who was harangueing him saying Sol was gay. What does Dido say about it? I remember during a FA cup game a couple years ago a streaker ran naked on the pitch with a painted on sign on his back saying 'Sol likes men'. My response to it all is, he could come on the pitch in a dress as far as I was concerned as long as he performed his duties. **** Long Time Gooner, I think its just rumor. If not this year, then at least in a year or two the G14 group would award a club that has performed as they have membership. We got in with only being English champions and CL quarter finalists. If its seen that Chelsea are going to be a CL qualifying club each season they would be offered a membership. I think what hurt Leeds was that they couldn't maintain their league form as well after '00 and obviously their financial situation, plus there already being 3 English sides in the organization. If Chelsea are continued to be excluded the top clubs have seen their rise as ominous. Ominous in the meaning that its more than just football. Ominous in the tactics they are employing at the moment (feeder club scheme, rants by the manager, tapping up Cole, etc.)
Mo
footballforever2005@hotmail.co.uk
April 08, 2005
Hello, I have recently come across this website, but have noticed how sour and bitter some of arsenal fans have become. I think it is a shame trying to knock down Chelsea, when they have done well this season. I think that more arsenal fans should focus on what a great club they have and the great players they have as well, not forgetting their manager and their new stadium to look forward to.
Long Time Gooner
April 08, 2005
American Gooner. Fairly recently but can't remember where. I think that it was part of a broader consideration of a breakaway from FIFA/UEFA. Probably just journo gossip.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
I meant Chelsea's money will dry up, not Man Yoo in my long post. ;-) **** Well, it could all have been worse. What if Roman had bought Tottenham?!! Imagine them in Chelsea's position? I cringe at the thought.
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
LTgooner, its actually 17 clubs, but I guess they don't want to spend the money on changing the stationary. Where have you read this? I would have thought it would have been fairly big news and made some of the online footie blogs at least.
Yorkshire
April 08, 2005
N5er. From Arsenal.com supporters forum meetings (three back I think)....How many season tickets will be available? 44,000 (Of these, approximately 2,000 will be in Executive Boxes and approximately 7,000 will be at Club level)....
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
Rich, regarding the player of the year. If this was a Chinese new year it would the the Year of the Chelsea Rat..haha...its their year. No one will give Henry any thing, even if he breaks the PL record and scores 35 goals. Every one sees it as the Chav's year and they'll get the honors. I think Lamps is a sure bet. Terry may split votes but its him. **** Niall, regarding the passing through a brick wall post. It's why I like Yakubu, he's young (24 I think) and can play our game, one touch, footie and in a bind can be a target man in the box and get those long headers that Drogba was heading into the path of Lampard and company. I am not saying we should adopt that style. We should play our game first and foremost, but there comes a time when you need a goal and the only way to get one is a cross in the air into the box or a volley to a big target man who can play with his back to the goal and chest it down without being pushed off the ball and lay off to someone coming down one of the channels. He is that man. I also think he'll be okay with not being a regular starter. As long as he gets minutes. The opportunity to win the PL or FA cup and play in Europe will induce him and make him patient.
Long Time Gooner
April 08, 2005
American Gooner. I think that Chelsea have already been invited to join G14 (and the number 14 is becoming meaningless)
AmericanGooner
April 08, 2005
If Chelsea makes it to the semi and win the league and are at least champions or runners up for the next couple years, I wonder if they will be invited to join G14? Their being offered a position or not, will tell me a lot. On another but similar note, Dortmund is part of the G14 and if their financial crisis brings them into administration I wonder if they'll be the first club kicked out of the group? **** I despise Chelsea for similar reasons I despise Real Madrid who got an indirect government subsidyf via the stadium and has recently bought players solely for marketing reasons and not footballng reasons. If that's not a slap in the fac to the game i've adopted, nothing is. Man Yoo may have been merchandising whores but Chelsea has even made their rise seem more pure. For similar reasons I never supported they NY Yankees here despite living in NY for part of my life. When I didn't know a thing about football (and some would say its still so ; -) I never considered Man Yoo. It was the only club I heard of and it was the biggest. Their arrogant support where I watched games made it easy as well. All that said, they have played some of most consistent football, if not always entertaining, that I've seen in my short viewing life. Some day though, hopefully sooner or later, the money will dry up. They'll go into administration when it happens and opposing fans will remind them how they got their trophies when they sing about it. **** I've always maintained if we lose the title to Man Yoo we were out-managed and if we lose it to Chelsea we were outspent. **** I met a former 'headhunter' from the hooligan days when I lived in Asia. He owned a bar there. The stories! The scars! I heard most of them were middle class kids from the home counties. Is that true?
Long Time Gooner
April 08, 2005
Nothing to do with football this time but just an observation about how life can suck. Took my car in for service and mot recently. Not happy with resultant performance and took it back in yesterday. They claim that they fixed it but I shall never know. They took it out on road test and wrote it off in a crash whilst doing a dodgy overtaking manoeuvre. Nice one!
Steve Martin
April 08, 2005
Something I cna never understand about Arsenal, we have some 30.000 tickets for the semi-final, they ahve put them on general sale, why don't they say how many are left, if what Gaz says is true 25.000 sold then they are more likely to sell the rest, what's all the secret about...
Sabir
April 08, 2005
Enjoyed reading that little story about Rocky Rocastle. I used to love watching him when I was a kid. I've never liked Chelsea but I remember when I first started work (1995), there was a lesbian Chelsea fan working with me who absolutely HATED us. Boring Arsenal, cheating Arsenal, anything negative and it was Arsenal's fault. She used to cut out the Arsenal reports from her Guardian newspaper because Arsenal's name on her paper made it dirty! That season I went to the home game (Wise equalised in the last minute). I met some some of their fans after the game and they were some of the nasties smug ******** I've ever met in my life. Just a horrible bunch. I've never particularly liked Liverpool fans either - there were loads of them in school all gloryhunters like the Man U fans later. QUESTION - For the older forumites. An Arsenal colleague of mine was telling me about his hate for an old Spuds player called Pat Van Den Howe. Apparently during the Graham Rix testimonial, he gave the North Bank fans a w***** sign! Was anyone from here in the North Bank that day and do they remember this incident?
Disgusted in Siberia
wewantourmoolaback.org
April 08, 2005
This is an appeal to the good people of England. This man Mr. Abimbob***h, he came in Siberia and made us promises and took our oil. Then he and his mafia pals took all of our money. Now we have to ride donkeys to work in the freezing cold, and we have no hospital. But we hear how he is in England buying shirts for his friend Lampard and Terry. And so some of you English really, really like hime. Stop thief !!! Please, help us get our money back.Dos Vidanya. Disgusted in Siberia.
Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 08, 2005
Totally agree with all the negative posts on chelscum. I hate what they're doing and as a football Club I cant stand them. As for the semi we've sold over 25,000 of our 30,000 tickets before the general sale. Come on Arsenal.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 08, 2005
Cannon - got to say I don't think he should be over greatful to Bruce (in particular). Another way of looking at it is that Bruce took on a player that he wanted, knowing full well he'd only be around a while. As soon as the (obvious) term was handed down Bruce starts bleating about him being an Arsenal player not a Birmingham one... Now he's released early Bruce wants him back. OK, I'm obviously not defending Pennant at all, but Bruce and Birmingham hardly covered themselves in glory here either, especially after all the guff they came out with about how they'd help him (and the laughable inference that Arsenal hadn't tried) when he first arrived.
Wirral Gooner
April 08, 2005
Mee is correct. Chavski are new money with all the lack of grace and history that this suggests. However they did stuff BM and we did not!
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
Careful, Mee, Mick is going to get angry with you posting that hate-filled tirade against wonderful Roman and co.
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
What planet you wonder is Pennant living on?. The guy get's three months in prison for drunk driving, and despite knowing that because of a previous conviction and suspended sentence he will get sent-down Steve Bruce takes him on at Birmingham. Even visiting him in prison and assuring him that on his release he will still have a job at Brum. So what thanks does he get when after this helped to secure Pennants early release from Pennant?. On offering a contract to Pennant,Bruce is informed by him and the world at large that Pennant will have to think about it, he really want's to play for Arsenal!. Wenger informing the wayward-winger that he is not wanted at Highbury and his future is at Birmingham will have put a dent in the petulant Pennants over-sized ego. Pennant should be thankful that he had the help that he got from Bruce instead of kicking him in the teeth - somehow i do not believe that we have heard the last of Pennant. And i am not refering to his on field activities.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
Oh well, I'm off for dinner - and guess what I've got today. Yep, that's right, a plateful of lovely porkers with grilled tomatos and fried onions.
Mee
April 08, 2005
Wengers assertion that Chelsea’s success is ‘artificial’ is correct. Abramovich’s wealth has seriously distorted the transfer market to the point where they will show an interest in a player simply to raise that players market value whilst not seeking to buy the player themselves. Arsenal, have reached their current standing, through prudent management, efficient husbandry, and the demographics of a city location which ensures a relatively large fan base. Other clubs satisfying similar criteria have not enjoyed our success, Man City, Everton, Sheffield Wednesday to name a few are struggling to keep pace. Chelsea, pre-Abramovich were in a similar position, Ken Bates’ grandiose schemes had virtually bankrupted the club and now with barrels of Sibneft oil raining down on them, the bad management and disappointing playing record have been expunged at a stroke. They now occupy the same playing field as Arsenal, the difference is it took us over 100 years to find ourselves where we are today, not five minutes. I think this is what angers our fans about Chelsea, there’s is a ‘loadsamoney’ brash, glitzy kind of instant success, celebrated by their fans as though their lineage was as proud and distinguished as ours.
Cannon Balls
April 08, 2005
Mick, thank you for the grammar lesson and pointing out that i had placed or typed the i in perceived incorrectly. But oh dear!, on checking your own posts i find that they are full of errors. Cannon Ball? no S,the name is plural not singular.In another one you spell Ther no E and mesmorized is actually spelt mesmerized. You know what they say about people who live in glass houses Mick... I am sorry to hear that you will not be reading anymore of my posts, never mind,i will continue reading yours i like a good laugh,keep them coming !.
Mickey Sloan
April 08, 2005
I'm not being funny but there's gotta be a better picture of steve for this page?
Rich
April 08, 2005
Moving away from the Chelsea arguments, Arsenal linked with 25 Year-old Lyon CB Eric Abidal, seems a more typical Wenger signing but having said that it seems that the players who actually are signed for us are the ones we don't expect, Gilberto and Cygan when all the talk was Hofland and Van Bommel, Flamini came from nowhere, Lehmann was hardly mentioned, Reyes seemed a quick swoop even though we'd been linked. Even RVP after it seemed the deal was dead. Seems AW prefers to keep his targets as a tight secret, no surprise with Chelsea and Man U trying to gazump us. Damn it I mentioned Chelsea.... It could be an interesting way of narrowing down who we may sign in the summer!
Mick
April 08, 2005
Well said, Bernard. At last a bit of humour from you concerning Germany.
Niall
April 08, 2005
Seconds out....round one.
Mick
April 08, 2005
Cannon Ball, first learn how to spell properly. Look up how to spell "perceive" correctly before you come back with your vile hate-ridden filth. I am not a Chelsea supporter but I am ashamed of the comments being made here in the name of Arsenal supporters. You have no style, Cannon. You are a bitter little man. Look at Steve Martin`s and Niall`s postings. They are critical but moderate. Better look up these words as well, Cannon. You repeat yourself over and over again, slating everyone viciously who does not agree. You are the forum bully no.1. I think you have a problem. I am going to ignore you from now on. You are too low class for this forum.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
Just to prove I don't worship everthing German, my tastes are more for the traditional banger.
Niall
April 08, 2005
Frankfurger Bernard?
Darren
April 08, 2005
I assume you prefer Bratwurst to the traditional banger, eh Bernard?
Bernard
April 08, 2005
I love sausages. I saw Michael Jackson at the Rainbow, Finsbury Park - don't ask me why.
Niall
April 08, 2005
Thanks Darren, I had sausages for lunch!!
Darren
April 08, 2005
Bernard - it was a month or so before - July 88
Darren
April 08, 2005
EEG - If he knew what those sausages went through he would never have eaten it, trust me!!! No - he ate, I smoked. Boiling hot day it was and whisper it quietly but it was a Michael Jackson concert.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
Or Darren, was it before either the Tottenham and Bayern Munich pre-season games that were discussed earlier?
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Was that his pre-match meal before we played Luton then Darren? And having a fag with his sausage and chips? Nice. Things have changed under Wenger.
N5er
April 08, 2005
Yorkshire I'm more inclined to agree with your revised figures on Highbury redevelopment. I've found in the past that Edelman seems confused with his figures sometimes! Also seen a number of 6750 Club level seats bandied around. Your 7000 figure for Director level seats seems right. How many seats are taken up by the 150 exec boxes? Do you know? I have calculated between 1850 and 2000.
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Cheers Darren - I was quite pleased with that phrase.
Darren
April 08, 2005
Steve M - But winning has to be everything for Chelsea, otherwise the project is a complete and utter failure taking into consideration the scale of investment. George's title winning teams were never as dull as people like to remind us. Any teams that had Rocky, Thomas, Davis, Smith, Limpar, Marwood amongst others on top of their game would never have been dull. Infact the midfield of that era was one of my favourite Arsenal memories.Infact, I met Rocky at Wembley stadium in the summer of 88. I was working in one of the burger bars earning a bit of spare cash and he bought some food from the stall I worked in. Sat on the grass verge having a fag whilst he ate his sausage and chips adn chatted for a about 10 mins and he told me they really fancied the league the coming year. He was right wasn't he? I also remember his girlfriend telling him to get a move on and he told her to be patient as he was chatting to me. Lovely memory.
East End Gooner
April 08, 2005
Leave it alone Mick. I am not mesmerised by them. I watched it impassively yesterday in a pub full of people I am sure were supporting United a year or two ago. I just dont expect to come on here and be told how ****ing wonderful they are. I am going to react to that. You call it sour. Fine. I wonder if people would have felt the same if it was Charlton. That would have been much better. I said I didn't like it all last season and we whipped their arses. It was heading one way and will get worse. So sorry if I dont buy the embarassing "too much hate" lines. To me there is not nearly enough hatred for what is happening there, though I am confident that in time there will be.
steve martin
April 08, 2005
So the manager come in, keeps faith with the Old Guard, wins the title three time in his seven years but fails to win it back to back, this seaosn being his best chance... During this time nearly 8 years he has spent less than Chelsea have in the last year, yet along come Chelsea, millions to throw about win the league, spend even more and win the league two years running, now tell me that is what it's all about... One works hard with next to nothing, the other wins the footballing lottery and has an easy life...
Yorkshire
April 08, 2005
Bernard. I think you may be right about 2 seats per membership but Arsenal.com stated....The Diamond Club offers 160 members the ultimate match day experience... Can't see a guest being classed as a Diamond member?? I say I think you're right as Club level has 6,700 seats. If the 160 members have two seats as you say, then that brings the number to a round 7,000 (near enough). Edelman has said there will be 7,000 director level seats. Anyway, I am still waiting for my invite. As for the empty seats at Cardiff for the 2003 CS. This was becasue of our opponents. The Police refused Arsenal permission to do a general sale as man utd had sold out and they knew that many man u fans would buy tickets in the Arsenal end. I understand that they relented and let a one day general sale commence, briefly advertised on Arsenal.com then removed after 24 hours. Hence the many empty seats. If you remember the Liverpool CS before, that was allowed to go general up to match day and we just about sold out.We would still have many empty seats for the semi if Arsenal could only sell seats on general for one day against a quick advert on Arsenal.com. Obviously the greater importance of the semi-final is a factor as well.
Bernard
April 08, 2005
Darren, in my view the way they've come into money - and are using it - just means they do not deserve their success, because what happens on the pitch is very dependant on what has happened to them off it. Can anyone see Gerrard not playing for Chelsea next season, because I think he will be, and no doubt a few others too. Which will improve a side that'll win the league extremely comfortably this season.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Darren, no one can blame the Chelsea players, you cannot argue that they have done well this season, yet for that amount of money, so they should... However, when we won the league in 1989 and 1991, we were seen as boring, yet we were much more entertaining that this Chelsea side and we scored more goals... The derseve the title for coming first, but in footballing terms, there is nothing so poor as spending fortunes to wins things... EEG with his analogy about Ben Johnson sums it up, take drugs win, but whats the point, when you have a massive advatage, where's the sportmanship, the thing every sport is supposed to be about, winnig should not be everything, but to Chelsea it IS...
Darren
April 07, 2005
Cannon Balls - Chelsea are Blackburn magnified 1000x. They are playing the most effective footie curently but we still play the best when we're on our game. I really hope we remind them of that when we go to Stamford Bridge.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Mick,the only revolting tirades on here come from you and GunGun with your posts praising Avbramovichs-Chelsea and trying to stop any criticism of them.
Darren
April 07, 2005
Bernard - they deserve it ON the pitch but off it they are hideous. They have a gangster running the show and a Man Utd fan as chief exec. Very classy. There's something far sexier with the way we are trying to achieve success but we can't blame Lampard, Terry etc, for the naffness of the club as a whole. EEG-loved the way you slipped "arse lickingly" into your previous post. Marvellous stuff.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Micky boy, I don't hate Cheslea, lets get that straight... I just dislike the way they have gone about buying their way too win trophies, the media laud them and Jose gets credit for buying £200m worth of players and inherting another 100m worth and saying that he's done a great job... Neil Warnock could have done a great job with £300m at Sheff Utd and Wenger and Fergie would have won the lot with that money and don't forget the wages...
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
And Niall - I think you'll find I didn't "bang on about it" except in response to the stomach-churning appreciation I had to read this morning. I would rather not comment on them at all because I think it is wrong (and the scale of this is a million times ahead of anything Inter or Madrid have been able to do - its every position - two quality players). Unfortunately I had to read nasty stuff suggesting I should be grown up and appreciate their quality. Which to me is like saying "Ben Johnson was roided up to the eyeballs and - hey - I might not agree with it but I just dont see the point of revisiting it every time he pisses on everyone in a race. The other runners should just stop being envious and appreciate his speed." See, they are getting even better.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Mick, within reason people have the right to post whatever they wany, about whatever they want. And the catastrophic impact that Chelsea under Abramovich will have on football as a sport is highly relevant to a football forum, I'd suggest.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Darren,i have said that Chelsea have been the most consistent side in the League, the most consistent actually since the inception of the Premiership was formed. And that is the secret of their success they have raised the bar and now it is up to us to respond to that without sacrificing our attacking entertaining style,which is dressing up a dour league. The days when a team like United could lose 5 games and still win the title in a canter like back in the 90's are long gone. But having watched many of their league games i have to say that out of all the teams that have won the previous titles, Manure,us and Blackburn ,Chelsea are nearer in entertainment value to Blackburn than us or United. And i suspect that it is no coincidence that Blackburn were financied by a suggar daddy too, albeit one who had stood on the terrace when a boy and not bought the club on a whim when flying past in his helicopter. The only consolation in all of it is that he never bought Spuds!.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Exiled and Chief Anorak, thanks for the date, and thanks to the others who replied.
Mick
April 07, 2005
I never thought this site would degenerate into a pathetic sour-grapes Chelsea hate-site. You are all mesmorised by themand by Mourinho. It has been the only subject for weeks.Can`t we talk about the Gunners anymore? I think you all have stated your hate. Ther is too much hate in the world. You have called for bullets to hit Abramovic and compared their players to Nazi soldiers. I think enough is enough. It is only football, you bunch of sour grapes.Have you all gone nuts?Pull yourselves together and spare this site from your revolting tirades.
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
And of course I think they are just the same Niall. What I was getting at, with the brick I sometimes feel you respond best to is that it is a very silly argument to suggest that you can and should ignore the very basis of something when looking at the individual episodes. The argument is plain stupid in fact. OK maybe something a bit closer to the story. Would you have happily watch and lauded the achievements of the South African cricket side playing tests against rebel tourists in the apartheid days and say "I have no love for the South African regime but I see no point in revisiting the evils of apartheid every time they play a match". And before you suggest I am comparing Abramovich to the South African apartheid regime (although we could debate screwing your own people) the level of the crime is irrelevant. Its the principle. If you dont accept the basis then you dont sweep it aside in a ghastly appreciation of its result.
Yorkshire
April 07, 2005
N5er. I find both the £85M profit and £300M retail figs strange for two reasons: one they seem too low and high respectively and secondly they are from the same source:Edelman. Vision7 have released prices of £225K for one bedroon and £300k for 2 beds. Assuming we are on the same prices and 3 beds are £370K, 4 at £450K and units are heavily biased to one beds, say 300, 200, 150 and 60 4 beds that's about (conservative) £210M retail. Take off £80M costs that's £130M profit. Bit more than the £85M + £30M Edelman said. Strange.
Niall
April 07, 2005
Bernard, I'm not denying or defending Abramovich's influence. I'm stating I don't feel the need to bring it to everyone's attention everytime I mention Chelsea or Chelsea win a game. Its the new reality of things and there isn't much point whinging about it especially to a bunch of Arsenal fans who already agree. And also I think Mourinho must take a lot of credit. Many teams have thrown money at success in the past (Inter Milan for eg) and have failed. Also Ranieiri had the same chance last season and failed.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
E-mail just came round at my firm We have 4 tickets for this Saturday's match: Chelsea v Birmingham, Stamford Bridge, 3.00 pm.£40 each for client or personal use. First come first served. Carling Cup winners, Champions Flect, one of two favourites for the Champs Legaue...
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Stupid says as stupid does... What do you think the Chelsea Forums would be saying now if the roles were reversed, says it all really, the brought the trophies, at least us and United and Liverpool won ours, with players brought with money earned by the clubs... If you see it differently from that, then your not looking at it in the best interests of FOOTBALL, not Arsenal, FOOTBALL...
Bernard
April 07, 2005
But Niall, it is because of Abramovich's money alone that Chelsea will win the league this year. If it wasn't for him, Arsenal and Man Utd would now be neck and neck at the top of the table, with us having a chance of winning consecutive titles for the first time since the 1930s. And Darren, I don't deny they've been the best team this season, but I don't think that means they deserve it. Being given £200 million to spend by a corrupt Russian with no previous affinity to the club, with more to follow no doubt, in my view contradicts any idea that they deserve it.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005
Bernard - Makita tourny 13th/14th Aug 88. Beat spuds 4-0 first day (when they had Paul Stewart and that fat cry baby making their debuts after being bought for about 2.5m each). Sunday we beat Bayern 3-0 (Smith2 Dixon 1). Funnily enough I just bought the tape of the Bayern Game from ebay and was watching it at the weekend - it was strange watching all the back passes (and inceidently the pitch was a mare because they'd just started playing American Gay Rugby there).
Niall
April 07, 2005
What a load of rubbish EEG. A very rich man buying Chelsea and annoying you has nothing to do with the evils of Nazism where just a few millions of people were murdered. What an absurd analogy. Now, if you wish to bang on about it every day on an Arsenal forum (where everyone agrees anyway that they don't like it and it changed the face of English football) go on ahead. I don't feel the need to restate the obvious at every given opportunity.
Chief Anorak
April 07, 2005
Spurs 4-0 (Aug 13 1988) amd Bayern 3-0 (Aug 14 1988) source: Day-To-Day Life At Highbury
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
Darren/Cannon Balls - On both sides of your discussion, my point is it doesn't matter. I dont agree with Cannon Balls assessment of Chelsea and their players. Darren is right. They are good. Lampard was excellent last night. A better central midfield performance than we have seen at Highbury all season. But it is utterly irrelevant. QPR would be that good with the level of spending. And people who talk about Lampard and Terry already having been there also miss the point. They wouldn't still be if it wasn't for Abramovich because Bates had already done a Leeds and overstretched them and they were about to go down big time. There is no point wasting time on how good they might be because they dont deserve to be watched. And funnily enough with Skys Premier League viewing figures taking a dive we may see them react to the monster they welcomed so arse-lickingly in the first place.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Bernard,i was at that Wembley Makita Cup Tournament i remember it being Gazza's first game for Spuds he had just been signed by Venables and a 4-0 thumping from us marked his debut - he also got a lot of stick i recall from the gooners for his obvisious overweight being mocked with shouts of Fat-Boy when ever he touched the !- which was not often because we totally out-played them.I cannot remember the date either though.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
It has nothing to do with Chelsea winning A GAME, it's the fact that they were nowhere, then in comes the Billionaire, out goes the hundreds of millions, in comes the massive wages, in comes the manager of the European Champs, though I firmly believe that Arsene, Fergie or any other top line Manager would be in the same position as Jose now, had they been given the job and the money... They have brought the trophies, Chelsea fans will see it differently, of course, but everyone else can see it clearly, the media I believe are building them up for one of the greatest falls....
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
Sorry Niall but that is loony. Of course it is worth revisiting otherwise you just accept it. It is the basis for them winning the ****ing game in the first place. Niall 1939 - "I have no love for the Nazi regime but I just dont see the point of revisiting the whole master-race belief system every time they invade a country".
Darren
April 07, 2005
Steve M - I was at that tournament. We won 4-0 against spurs and then beat Bayern 3-0......i think! That was when Geroge's first proper side started to really click. Brilliant! Cannon Balls - fair enough points about cap'n birdseye,. a man who makes euthanasia appear essential - and their loathsome fans, make no mistake I have no pleasure in watching the Chavs run away with it, but you can't say they don't deserve it this year. To do so would be rose-tinted to the extreme.
Niall
April 07, 2005
I have no love for Chelsea either, I just fail to see the necessity of continually revisiting the Abramovich influence every time people get narked off about them winning a game.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Darren,i have no envy about Chelsea,i have said that i hate the club,this goes back years to when the Bridge was a cess-pit of racist extremists from the National Front and the abuse of Black-players was the most extreme there from the skin-head nazis in the Shed. I was not exactly over-impressed with old Cap'n Birdseye Bates either, he bought the Bridge for a Pound, that's how much it was worth then!. Still is in my book. Your opinion that i am envious of Chelsea is wrong i loath the club for what it's stood for in the past and stands for now, there is a difference. And i still await to see if all of these marvellous achievements that you predictfor the Chav's will actually occur.I have my doubts about that - and also whether or not they can attract the real world class players to come to the stadium built from Lego Blocks, not the squadies that apart from Robben are what the present lot consists of. Wait until our new stadium is up and running, then we will see who is envious!. We Arsenal supporters have nothing to be envious about regarding other London Clubs -especially the Chav's.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Steve, I had it in my mind that we beat Bayern Munich 3-0, but I couldn't swear to it. Arsenal World have a brilliant service that lists the dates of all Arsenal's competitive games, but they don't give the date for that 4-0 win against Tottenham.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005
Ryan Garry - always impressed me when I saw him play, but, OUCH! http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?article=265033
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Bernard, I remember going to both matches, I think we won them both 4-0... when and who scored, too long ago for my ageing memory...
Bernard
April 07, 2005
I've been googling but not had any luck finding it. Can anyone remember a pre-season tournament at Wembley, think it was probably in 1988, when we beat Tottenham and Bayern Munich in consecutive days. Might have been the Makita Trophy, or something like that. The win against Tottenham was definitely 4-0, and I seem to remember Merson and Marwood getting two of the goals, though I can't remember the other scorers. Does anyone know the date that the Tottenham game occured? I guess it would have been August 1988, but want to know what day in August it was.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005
As for the german thing. As I see it (never having lived there) they don't like us and we don't like them, but there appears to be a mutual(if grudging) level of respect between the two nations. Much like two cousins really.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Darren that's the point, once they sign another 100m worth of players and domiate, and the media see that even the other big two United and Arsenal are stuggling to keep up, then Liverpool and Newcastle ars tugging, then Real and Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, Inter and AC find it difficult as it's all down to ones man money and his ambition to make a club the biggest, the medias view will change and the powers that bemay actually do something good for football and make sure that a club survives on the money THE CLUB makes, not by indivduals with money to burn, making the competition, Pointless... Arsenal and Man Utd battled it out for years now, but they battled it out with United having the advantage in crowds and world wide commercial activities... Arsenal are paying some 300m to build a future, if Roman had come to Highbury we could have been the best with a 20.000 capacity stadium... We build for the future, Chelsea have brought the future, NOW!!!! Football should never have let them do it...
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005
At the risk of incurring Nialls wrath I agree with E*G. I also would like to have seen the Russian choose a different bankrupt organisation to foist his wealth on like QPR perhaps, maybe then the powers that be would have been quicker to see the danger he poses to the game as a whole. OMOH - I came across Al Hibbler by chance when listening to a Rahsaan Roland Kirk album, I bought the vinyl copy about 16 years ago and have only just managed to track down the digital version thanks to a Warner promotion on 101cd.com, thanks for the Little Jimmy Scott tip, I'll give it a Google.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 07, 2005
Can I add my voice to the throng of chelski haters? Dare I for fear of a lecture? Sod it, I hate 'em. They're chelsea ffs. They didn;t need the russian mafia money to make me hate them. They're a club formed to fill an empty ground and only got into the league in the first place because of their stadium. But for me it's personal. I've been to the bridge many times and their supporters have always been from the scummy end of society. Add to that the Captain Birdseye years (never did I think they'd be able to find a more odious chairman than bates) and the gross overcharging of away fans over the years for a restricted view. I hate 'em, always have and always will regardless of any other factors any 'right on' poster wants to throw in, and more to the point as an Arsenal supporter I reserve the right to hate any team I want for absolutely any reason I see fit. So don't bother.
Darren
April 07, 2005
EEG - I despise what Chelsea are doing, the way they are doing it adn the damage it will have on English football. But on a more simplistic level, they have been the best team in the league this year based on results, they look the best bet of both english clubs to go through to the semis of the CL. That's all I'm saying. However, the longer this Chelsea bandwagon goes on and I'm pretty convinced it will last a while, then the more ingrained Abrahamovich will become in the establishment and , to be honest, the exchequer are probably enjoying the benefits of having another billionaire "investing" in england, however morally dubious the source of their income may be. It's never bothered them before. It still changes very little about their lasck of class, style, history and humility and in Peter Kenyon they have one of the most odious, loathsome slippery titw***s to have ever graced the game of footie. However, my earlier posting to Cannonballs was that I felt, at times, his pathological hatred of all things Chelsea was as much to do with envy as it is about the morality of the situation. First and foremost most footie fans care about trophies and titles. Unfortunately, I fear that once they've spent another £50-£100m in the summer, the grip will be so tight the rest of the league will be breathing out of their arseholes.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
EEG, i could not agree more with your post about Chelsea adulation,i percieve xenophobia at work in all of this Chelsea love-fest in the media and among some of the posters on here too. Anyone who thinks that Lampard is one of the worlds great MF players should be made to watch his performances for England especially that one in Madrid against Spain - pony is too polite a word. He did not look that great in the game against us at Highbury when up against Fabregas and Flamini. Doing a Mickey Mouse league cup and title double does not make him or Chelsea World beaters either. Mourinho played his first team to win the LC in all rounds,we used our young players,spot the difference anyone???.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Have to agree with everything that EEG just said about Chelsea. Noticed on Arsenal.com that the only price bands still available for the semi-final are a few £45 and presumably a lot of £55 tickets. Although they're now on general sale, I'm quite surprised that so many have been sold already. I had visions of our end being as empty as it was in the 2003 Community Shield game.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
I can’t stand this Chelsea love by the media or fans either, I don’t care what anyone says, they have brought their success big time… Any decent coach could spend a couple of hundred million and sway players to come with massive wages on offer, that even United cannot match… Could Jose have taken over Chelsea and done it the same way as Wenger did, I doubt it, just like if Wenger was given 200m in the summer, Chelsea would not get a look in next season… Chelsea have been pushing cheating to the wire this season, have been pulled up a few times and the powers that be bottle it… If the media want to suck up to them, then that’s their prerogative, but it stinks, just to get a new name on a trophy, that does not belong to United or Arsenal… I hate United, but at least they spend their own money…
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
They have messed up football and are a franchise operation in a sport that prides itself on a history. The fuss about Wimbledon moving to Milton Keynes and whether Celtic and Rangers could play in the Premiership was pathetic when you consider that a foreign vehicle moved wholesale into the shirts and stadium of one of England's bigger clubs. Everything is bought with dirty money and the attitude pervades the club. So to come out with gut-wrenching and supposedly "grown up" appreciation of the "innocent" players' efforts on the pitch is like lauding the Nazi soldiers for their organisational skills. And if this seems over-the-top, good. It is meant to be. The distortion of the game over the last two years has been foul. And reading that **** this morning was distasteful in the extreme.
Mickey Sloan
April 07, 2005
I've always thought that we don't shoot enough from outside the area with our midfield players. You can't score without a shot on target and it is no fluke that Lampard scores so many deflections. Two things of note from the two days play...One; The crowd at the Liverpool game puts ours to shame, what an atmosphere...Two; Pay through the nose for Michael Ballack. 10-0
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
Feeling quite sick at the disgustingly cloying appreciation of Chelsea on here today. It is ****ing toe-curling and it is saying something that I have found my recent encounters with the mice of Hackney more pleasant than reading the forum this morning. And all in the name of some kind of pathetic stiff-upper-lipism and "love of the game". Plain nasty. Everything about the current Chelsea is wrong. From its very foundations right through to each and every member of the organisation. It was sickening to hear Terry moaning about Ballack after they had cheated their way past Barcelona with Carvalho holding back the keeper (David Lacy wrote a great article about the pathetic lack of condemnation of their approach by the English press). And the way they blatently ignored the Mourinho ban and then UEFA bent over and immediately cleared them was a farce.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
William, I found you post very surprising because I do not have total adulation for anything German, and have never claimed to have. And to be frank, you have no idea of all the places where I've ever lived, so I'm not sure why you seem to think you do, just like I have no idea where you live, or have lived. Having said that, I've not lived in Germany though have been there quite a few times, but until you read this post, that's the first time you would know I've not lived in Germany at any point in my life. And I've never suggested that Germans are always full of admiration and love for English clubs either. And how do you know the true attitudes of all Germans anyway, just as I don't know the attitudes of all Englishmen, and I am English, whether or not you "eavesdrop" on German society? And where have I ever conveyed the experiences of people like Dave and babu as un-European? I'll tell you if you want to know - never.
Daz
April 07, 2005
I'm not sure I've seen Bernard demonstrate adulation for all things German. Audis? Wagner? Single words with complex meanings and no one-word translation like, for example, zeitgeist? Naturism? I've just heard him say that he supports the national team which is, in my opinion about as E*Ging weird as you can get, but hardly makes him a worshipper of everything German.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Arsenal -v- Blackburn, tickets on general sale... Having been in six out of the last seven FA CUP semi's, is it even more of a case of after the Lord Mayor's Show... Arsenal have been to Villa Park twice and Old Trafford three times and now Cardiff, where we have played three cup finals and three Charity Sheilds in the last six years... The FA do not think about any one but themselves when choosing Venues, perhaps the half empty terraces on the 16/17 will show them that football fans are just that fans, not MUGS...
William
April 07, 2005
There has been a lot of discussion about Germans and Beckenbauer here lately. I think one has to differ.What seems to be annoying some forumites is Bernards total adulation of anything German. What angry posters seem to be saying is that reality in Germany looks different to what pro-German posters think on this forum. I think the angry posters are only pointing out some other sides of German attitudes that Bernard cannot know as he has not lived in Germany as far as I can tell. The posters do not seem to be saying England is better or a perfect place to be. They are just pointing out that Germans are not always full of admiration and love for English clubs as is being suggested here. Another point is the language: obviously Germans would rarely tell an Englishman in the face what they think of his country. So even those of you who visited Germany will not have come up against their true attitudes. It is only when you are able to "eavesdrop" on a society, that is when you know the language well enough to understand the press and what the Volk is saying amongst themselves that you really here the truth. So, these posters are only conveying their experiences and not saying England is better or anything in that sense. But to dismiss their views as un-European does not do their observations justice.
Rich
April 07, 2005
Just been thinking about the player of the year awards - now we all know that 1st and 2nd will be Terry and Lampard but I think TH14 has has a fantastic season (again) and has scored more than double any other player in the Prem (discounting Johnson's 9 pens!) probably another load of assists, but I think he's a victim of his own success. 30 goals in an unbeaten season was amazing, but he's on course for another 30 this season. After all it is player of the year not most improved or anything like that. Imagine if Van Nistelrooy, Drogba, etc had scored 26 already this season, and generally terrorised defences throughout the land! Henry won't get it because he got it last year, I actually don't think they'll even put him in the top 3! Surely though they can look no further than our young Fabregas for young player of the year. I think that central-midfield is the hardest place to break into as a young lad. Young wingers and forwards can look good with their pace, Young GK's can look good with shot-stopping ability but CM demands you to control the tempo and style of the game and Fabregas can do that at 17. Again though I'm not sure he'll win it, it'll probably go to Downing or SWP even though he's 23. Didn't Parker win it last year?
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Yorkshire, don't forget that one diamond membership equates to holding two seats; hence 84 memberships mean 168 season tickets. EEG, I accept what you say but to me, Kraut seems a more offensive term than islander, that's all. Dave, so I presume you have time for the views of Steve/Colditz and North Bank Mural, because they seem to give a very different opinion to you.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
Yeah, good old Chelsea... 1st goal, long ball direct, shot deflected 1-0... Bayern goal, feee kick, shot, not held by golaie (lehmann would have been hammered for this) 1-1... Second goal, long ball direct, headed down by defender, Lampard left foot shot 2-1... Lampard third goal, well taken, though Bayern ahd gone to sleep by now 3-1... 4th goal scramble, Brogs on hand to slam in net form 2yds, about his range... Bayern can easily win the second leg... I pernally think the Champs Legaue is getting worse, which makes our exit frustrating...
N5er
April 07, 2005
Like you say Yorkshire the 300M doesn't really add up as would imply an average cost of 420k per unit and as we know there is now an increase in the amount of one bedroom units included in the project. Trying to tie this amount in with the possibility of selling some of the community facilities also being built on the site and the actual value of the land at Highbury (presume the units will be leasehold) therefore a freehold title will have an ultimate value but still struggling to find 300M. Even so will be happy to net the 85M initially mentioned earlier in the peice plus the extra 30M when Edelman said AFC were considering developing the site itself!
Rob K
April 07, 2005
Totally agree Niall recently continuously & consistently try to pass through brick walls and look surprised when at the fouth pass to thread the ball into the box to ensure scoring a sitter it gets intercepted.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Darren,i have often stated that Wennger needs to change his tactics in Europe,though we have had results like Chelseas last night at times. I still don't see that it's a foregone conclusion that they are in the next round yet. Two goals conceded at home on the away goal rule makes it tougher - especially if the Germans score first,i reckon that they will try and get a Chelsea player sent off, they are cunning at winning free kicks around the penalty area or making tackles look worse than they are. Parlours dismissal comes to mind over there. The Chavs will have to be careful on the yellow cards they got quite a few last night,and that was at home!.I have seen nothing that leads me to believe that Chelsea are better than AC Milan who with Shevchenko back look very strong and do not concede goals or lose games, unlike the Chavs.
N5er
April 07, 2005
Yorkshire thanks for that info. Don't know the answer re Queensland Road but read a few reports from various sources that it was a 'mixed bag' as regards redevelopment for on sale and redevelopment for own use. I understand the Arsenal Corporate office (incl board room facilities) the AFC museum and various other club related retail outlets are to be built in this area in some kind of tower block presumably next / very near to the stadium. Which got me thinking, perhaps the whole area was said to be 'cost neutral' by Arsenal because in effect the profits from any on sales will be offset by the cost of their own facilities. If so more astute business by the club afterall it was this land that was the subject of the CPO.
goonerguru
April 07, 2005
Have been away with the grandkids for a few days and got back last night and caught most of Chav's second half performance and hate to say it on that form they will have more than good chance of winning the CL,at the beginning of the season they were scraping 1-0 wins but now they appear to score when ever they go forward,their work rate is exceptional they not only defend very well with plenty of bodies behind the ball but when the ball arrives in their opponents box they have equally as many players in the penalty area.Also read this,this morning,according to The Sun newspaper, Gunners boss Arsene Wenger is keen to bring 22-year-old Nantes midfielder Jeremy Toulalan to Highbury.Reports suggest that Arsenal are already close to agreeing a £3m deal for the player,I have to say I have never heard of him.
Niall
April 07, 2005
GunGun, I didn't watch all the game last night. Saw the first half then came back in and it was 3-1 but the one striking thing about Chelsea in Europe that we lack (it was touched upon by Andy Gray) is their ability to mix up the play. They can go short, long, counter attack and are dangerous at set pieces. Contrast that with Arsenal always trying to pass through brick walls. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Until Arsenal buy the players that will enable us to mix up the play and we go back to being solid at the back, we will continue to flatter to deceive.
Darren
April 07, 2005
Who the hell is this Tom fella? I can see references to his posts but assume they've been removed. Sounds like a bit of a Catherine Tate invention from what I can gather. CAnnon Balls - I dislike Chelsea but have to admit they look very good. Regardless of what you might say, it seems to stem from the fact that they are making europe look easy. I think it's called being green with envy.They may have no class, no history and a corrupt sugar-daddy but sometimes you just have to take your hat off and say they deserve it for what they've done ON the pitch, however galling it may seem to us. It won't last forever but they'll make sure they spend the debt of a small african nation every close season.We'll just keep doing things our way adn hope that it comes good in the end in europe.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
GunGun, another illogically thought out argument from you. So you hate ManU and don't want them to win anything?. But you don't mind Chelsea who you admire winning?. You then berate me for using the same principles that you use against United, when i apply them to Chelsea!!!. Fred unlike you i was not salivating over Frank and co, but watching the real favourites to win the CL - AC Milan. Football does not begin and end at the Bridge - though it ended long ago down the lane that time forgot.
Rich
April 07, 2005
Well fair play to Chelsea they are getting the results and getting them against some very good teams - I don't agree about them having no star players; Cech has proved to be in the top 3 GK's in the world, Terry is a great centre-back and people do talk about his flaws but I never see it cost him - and he's probably one of the finest captains around, Lampard is probably one of, if not the most in-form central midfielder in the world. That's not to mention Robben, Duff and the underated Gudjohnsen and Gallas. I don't begrudge the players anything they win its the club. All the neutrals (not Arsenal or Man U)are behind Chelsea because the thought was that they would break the dual monopoly of the big 2, in fact it's gone further than that and realistically they had the title sewn up at Christmas and have effectively turned a 2 horse race to a one horse race. Chelsea could have gone from being closer in terms of points to relagation than the champions and just scraping into 4th to possible winners of the CL, league cup winners and Premiership winners with a probable record total in just 2 seasons! 2 seasons ago they were going nowhere fast, on a par with spuds probably. This may sound like sour grapes and a touch of jealousy but I think in years to come, whether Abrahmovic is here or not there will be a kind of Before Abrahmovic and After Abrahmovic way of thinking. Almost as though anything Chelsea do will be discredited and finishing 2nd to them will be the same as winning before Abro. A few more years of this kind of domination and the G14 clubs will have their noses seriously ut out of joint and could act. That said, while Abro is here I'd rather they win than Man U because everything they win can be bought back to the money and everything we win during the abro reign will taste even sweeter......and Chelsea have'nt gone the seaon unbeaten yet but they are on a run of some 22 games unbeaten....
Yorkshire
April 07, 2005
N5er. The conversion costs were not in that article. I have seen a few figures bounced around in other articles from £60M to £90M. Last year a poster on here who is in the construction game had a basic industry formula to work out housing construction costs by area and he estimated, for the size of Highbury, it would be about £75 to £80m. Read one article said about £90M. Here's the £60M link..http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/arsenal/ I find the £300M figure very high as even at 711 flats it seems a tad optimistic. Further it will mean a profit of £210M at least which cuts right across your email reply from Edelman who said £85M profit. That said, whatever the real figure Highbury will be the Goose that layed the Golden egg. Most of the other deals were just lands sales, after enabling by Arsenal ( from another of your emails from Edelman !!), so the value of the property sales is not relevant to Arsenal. Do you know if QR is land sales or are we doing our own construction???
old man of hoy
April 07, 2005
I woke up on a Chelsea morning all tangled up in blue. Though the sun is shining London is a cold place today. Great Wen i hear your call to work - fear not i am coming laden with expertise to see local government through another hard day. I leave the forum with one that was popular when Chelsea last won the league. Concluding his examination, the doctor asked, "You're in pretty good shape for a man your age. How's your sex life?" The old man answered, "I have sex almost every night." The doctor looked surprised. "What? I don't believe it." "It's true," said the old man. "Almost on Monday, almost on Tuesday, almost on Wednesday..." Boom-boom, gonna knock you right down...
On The Spot
April 07, 2005
Top Managers Earnings...... Mourinho(Chelsea)5.2m, Eriksson(England)4m, Ferguson(Man.Utd)3.6m, Magath(Bayern)3m, Wenger(Arsenal)2.3m, Capello(Milan)2m, Mancini(Inter)1.7m, and Lippi(Italy)3/4 m.
Alex
April 07, 2005
Just to make it quite clear, I never said Gerrard is coming to Highbury. Someone else was using my name. So very, very funny. As for Chelsea, their most impressive performances were in the group faze, where Jose showed how he has really mastered European football. The Barcelona game was hard to appreciate because of the means Jose uses to win. He's as bad as Fergy at his worst, which is really disgusting. Fair play tonight, but Bayern are ordinary, it's just a shame we are in Europe as well. American seems to have a coherant sport philosophy to me, and his dislike of Chelsea is founded on reason, not blind hatred. I don't think he would mind Liverpool winning the title, or in Europe for that matter. I agree that the way you win is important, and Chelsea winning in football, is bad for football. What is happeneing in Europe at the moment? PSV 10 points clear, Barcelona 9 points clear, Lyon 10 points clear, Chlesea 13 ponts clear! Is this usual at this stage of the season? Or is this some strange moment in time? Hope so. i aslo hope that we give Chelsea a pounding at home. I feel it's unlikely though. Oh well.
Jimmy
April 07, 2005
Can't believe the ref. gave a penalty to Bayern Munich. Ballack, the cheat, did one of his swan dives and got the penalty in the 90th minute. It may come back to haunt Chelski in the second leg.
N5er
April 07, 2005
Yorkshire I have that article but don't see anything about conversion figures, maybe it was cut from the electronic version? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1347105_1,00.html Thanks for the diamond club info.
Fred
April 07, 2005
I know it's been said and a lot of formites think it's bollocks but teams play harder against us! Being rated so highly over the last few seasons means that teams defend and stifle and counter, euro teams don't do that against Chelsea yet. It's looking like Chelsea will win the champions league this year. NOOOOO!! Thank god Newcastle knock them out of the FA cup, can you imagine if they were still in the FA cup!!!!!. Frank Lampard will lift the Champions cup before Henry, Pires & Pat.But then again so has Gary Neville & Paul Scholes. Jeezz that cannot be right.
GunGun
April 07, 2005
Cannon, I am not interested in Duff. You know who you hate? You hate yourself, man. You are totally incapable of appreciating good football. But this subject has got too out of hand. You get too emotional about Chelsea. I just cannot grasp the exaggerated hate. I hate ManU with reason. But no one else. It is such sour grapes from your end. Your attitude does not befit a grand club like Arsenal. I know there are others here who dislike Chelsea. But they still manage to keep their tirades under control and not make it into a personal vendetta. A bit of style please.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
I was more proud of our olympic basketball team when we had uni players who were playing for the love of the sport and the love of their country. The gold medal meant something. When they started using professional players here and winning by 30 points a game, I stopped watching basketball at the Olympics. That gold medal they won was bought and paid for.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
Brazil 70 and Gun Gun, I'm not denying Chelsea are playing very well. As for them achieving it without any real star players, you don't have to have star players to do well, just ask Everton and Greece. What you lack in skill you can make up with the right team spirit, mix and match of talents, etc. They spent until the got the right mix. Does my rant sound like my grapes don't taste as sweet as they did before the season. ;-) Perhaps, but regarding what I specifically said about them, what of it is not true? They have spent a kings ransom. They can live with mistakes that would crush any other club in the world including Real Madrid and Man Yoo and they are buildin a feeder club to hoarde players and are tapping up players on rival sides and have bought or tried to buy targets of their rival that they don't need. Address that. Its true or it isn't. Its a bought history in the making. They could put together a squad that plays better flowing footie than we do, defends better than the best Italian sides and its still bought and paid for with no risk. I still think we can beat them in a head to head match most times though. That old saying about form and class is still true.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
GunGun,you have a problem pal, not me. I have stated time and time again that i hate Chelsea, i make no bones about it . I 'ate Spuds, i hate Manure, ok ? - is that plain enough for you to grasp??? And hey, GunGun - guess what ? - there are others like me on here too!!! Aah! Bisto come back!! Duff was well - pony tonight, another sitter missed, and if Joe Cole scores another goal from a jammy******* deflection !!!!
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
A reality check do about Chelsea too,Liverpool were two goals up against Juventus at half-time and have the same chance that a similar chance to Chelsea of going through to the Semi to play the winner of the BM - Chavs tie,which is less certain than some on here are predicting.If Chelsea don't win the CL and it looks more likely that they will not than will,then they have done a 'Mickey Mouse Double' the real double - which great teams do - is the FA Cup and League Title, not the whatever its called now Cup and Title. They really need that CL to surpass us, we have done three 'doubles', two under AW. Winning the title is a great achievement for them, but not unique, someone has to win it -and after all that money spent not exactly out of order - but one swallow a summer does not make. 49 games unbeaten,that will take some beating too. I reckon that they will lose at least one possibly two more games in the league before it's over.
GunGun
April 07, 2005
Mee and Clock End Clive- at last a fair posting with some style and not all the primitive hatred served up by the likes of Cannon Balls and co. You see, Cannon has a problem.He hates too much. He hates Chelsea but it is an unnatural hatred. Ever since I dared to say that, while the Chelsea Empire might not be so clean, the players were ok, Cannon Balls has had it in for me. He is very vindictive, does not forget and says I keep insulting him. Well, I don`t. He says I keep on bombarding him with Chelsea mail. No, I don`t. All I want is fair talk and praise where players are doing well. So try and behave on this here forum Cannon or go back to the terrace where you belong. Here is to a cleaner less hate-ridden forum. Jealousy is ok but sitting around enviously waiting for the other players to get injured is cheap. The Chelsea players have put 8 past Barcelona and Bayern and how I wish we could have done that. I also think that ManU as a club have been far worsein their behaviour towards us than Chelsea. Ferguson and his players have been vicious in the encounters. The Blue men have only played good football. Thats all. Calm down Cannon. Calm down. Let off steam somewhere else.
Sabir
April 07, 2005
Who got the match ball when Pires and Pennant both scored hat tricks in the same game against the Saints two years ago?!
Brazil 70
April 07, 2005
I still cannot understand how Chelsea are now so successful.Looking at their players, they are good & solid but I hesitate to call them brilliant (any of them).Fat Frank (who I have always believed is overrated ) is scoring key goals & is talked about as one of the best in the world.They knocked barca out & very nearly knocked Bayern out in the first game tonight, scoring 4 when we struggled to score 1 against them at home.The EPL is sown up & so far they have only lost once.They have already won the carling Cup.When is reality going to reassert itself? American -Your comments about Chelsea sound a bit like whistling to keep your spirits up.I am getting worried about the game at stamford bridge as looking at it objectively, Chelsea are just not losing at the moment.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
The usual media hype going on about Chelsea scoring four against BM. We got five against Inter away and beat B Leverkusen 4-1 at Highbury, they ended up in the final! -losing to Real Madrid only 1-0. American, Mourinho signing a new contract means little it puts him in a stronger position if he chooses to leave for negotiating a new one for more money!. I expect him though to still be at the Bridge next year - unless something untoward occurs which at that place is always a possibility. I watched a recording of some of the Chavs match and noted that they were giving away more free kicks in dangerous areas than they do in the Premiership. That will be a danger for them with Roy Makaay playing,and the crafty Germans will be looking for,or gott verbot even diving for them!! - if the Germans score first it will be a tough call for Chelsea. I have a hunch that before the seasons over someone is going to stick three or four goals past them. It would not surprise me if the story about P.Neville is true i don't believe that the drunken fool is as popular that some claim with his own players. Hitlers, Generals pretended to like him!,but some still tried to kill him when things went wrong. I guess it's the same scenario with Ferguson a fear factor at work with everyone paying lip service to the cretin. Fergusons been slagging off players in public saying that he will drop them and bring in others, all nonsense of course, he was ranting on today about the consequences of not defending the FA Cup and failing to finish second in the Premiership not being good enough for ManUre, blah.blah.blah. The drunken jock laps up the applause when his team is winning, claiming all the credit for his'canny' management, even writing books about it!. But however, when it's all going pear-shaped, hey it's all everyone elses fault!!!.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
Clock-End, I won't deny them their victories. In the end a club has to do it on the pitch. However, I don't have to respect how it was done. I have far more respect for Everton's present standing in the table than Chelsea's. The amount of money thrown around by them is mind boggling. Anytime a club can make gargantuan football and financial mistkakes like Crespo, Veron, Geremi, Mutu, Parker and others and can still buy their replacements immediately, well it takes a bit of the fun out of it, doesn't it? All one has to do is just keep buying till you get the right mix. I could do that. You could do that. It reduces the sport to simply a dollars and cents...or pounds and pence. Granted, money is a big part of the game but a seemingly limitless supply takes a bit of fun out of it. If they had stopped at that, i'd still be upset but just damn their good fortune of getting a sugar daddy. But they haven't stopped their have they? They're also buying feeder clubs and are also tapping up rival players, making bids on transfer targets of their rivals and other nasty things. It justifies my increasing hatred of them. They are not quite at Man Yoo level yet in terms of my personal distaste...but in about 6-12 months I think they will have earned that same level of hatred I have for Man Yoo.
Yorkshire
April 07, 2005
Nico, Bernard N5er. RE Diamond Club membership numbers. The number I thought was 160 not 84. It may have changed???http://www.arsenal.com/article.asp?article=227283&title=Arsenal+sign+up+design+firm+20/20RE Highbury conversion. Edelman said in Sunday Times on 7 Nov....Highbury would be converted into more than 500 flats with a total retail value (not profit) of more than £300M..... Conversion costs have been quoted at between £60M and £90M.
Mee
April 07, 2005
Time for another reality check. Chelsea’s prolonged european campaign can’t just be argued away on the grounds of bad refereeing decisions, fluke goals, opposition players missing and so on, they have scored seven times in two matches against two of the most experienced teams in european football, both currently at the top of their respective leagues. The description of them as ‘show ponies’ is totally misleading, they have a blend of skill and agression, similar to our George Graham era. Players like John Terry and Gudjonssen don’t fit easily into the show pony description. They will win the tie against Bayern and then move on to a semi against Juve or Liverpool and they are well capable of beating both. Only AC Milan can now realistically stop them and I desperately hope they do. Our jibes about 1955 and their two league titles will look less convincing if they can point to a CL title. I posted yesterday that titles and cups don’t define great teams and Chelsea are somewhat short of being a great team, the real disappointment at the moment is that neither do we.
clock end clive
April 07, 2005
Seems to me the more people talk hopefully about Chelsea's downfall the more they win! As for overmuch luck - come on, be serious please, this is a forum that is supposed to know about football - they have just walloped two of Europe's biggest clubs and are over the hills and far away in our league. No luck there. Accept it guys - they are a fine team worthy of praise, albeit if it is touched (or soaked)with envy. We set the the benchmark last year. Chelsea have met it this time. We and United must show what we are made of next season. Until then, well done Chelsea.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
So Mourinho signed on for more money. Is that Roman's way of making him stop the sulking? **** Alex, Gerrard won't be coming. I think he'd be a good player for us if Paddy ever left but its not likely. Eissen is getting too much notoriety as well, he'll not come cheap and has probably already priced himself out of the market. Edu is gone. The question is, is Vieira, Silva, Flamini and Cesc enough at center mid or do we need to buy? I like Freddie a lot and Lauren is a hard core gooner who plays for the shirt but we are missing a lot of technical ability and pace on the right hand side of the pitch. That's why I would like to see Quincy and Eboue on the right at times, maybe not together as they are both young but substituted on to get some experience. If we had a half decent attack down the right, we could stretch defenses. As it stands they know we are only dangerous coming down our left side and all they really have to do is watch for Freddie ghosting in from the right channel. I've noticed that there seems to be a fair amount of space at the outside of the box on that side. That needs to be exploited. **** Regarding my email about Neville, I was told it was in the Guardian.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
Doh! Thanks CB. Forgot the draw was done already. **** A scouser owns the pub I see games at, and I snuck off their for a long lunch to watch the game. He concured that he's never seen so many Chelsea fans since he's had the pub since the 1980s. He and I recognized about 5 that were regulars for the last few years. Talk about glory hunters! He teased one of the Chav regulars and said there were a couple in here with Lancashire and Yorkshire accents and he didn't realize Chelsea had a following outside London and the home counties. hahaha...the guy seemed a bit embarassed by all the freshly bought, Chelsea shirts that seemed fresh out of the box as you can still see the crease in some of them. **** My Man Yoo friends at the pub see the Blues as a one off. They said we had an incredible amount of good luck with injuries and calls last season and the Chavs are having the same. They excpect both of us to challenge them and possibly to finish a close 3rd. Terry and Lampard and Makelele haven't been near the physio's table once this season. Terry once I think but it was only for a few days. **** Agree that Milan look very very good.
Genève Gooner
April 07, 2005
I think you'll find that 'The Island' is a common term used to describe England, Britain, UK (take your pick, nobody else in the world understands the difference). There is definitely no insult meant.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
American,the draw for the next rounds been done already .The Chavs 'IF'they get trough play the winner of the Car-Thives - Juve tie. AC Milan will be awaiting in the final for whoever gets there.Mick getting a bit carried away there,typical Chav no class.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
AC Milan with Shevchenko back and scoring! superb defending another clean sheet too, i will say it again they will win the CL not the Chavs. I have only seen the goals in the Chavs game and they scored some good ones apart from the fluke first - but two conceded means that it is not over in the tie. How many games now in all competitions since Chelsea kept a clean sheet?. They are conceding more goals nowadays than we were awhile back!. And oh dear me - was that first Bayern goal not down to a GK error too!!!. The Germans failed to score a goal at Highbury but got three at home against us. 2-0 or 3-1 and BM go through, not imposible either when they have Makaay back for the next leg at home.And the Chavs have lost their last two away games in the CL - 2-O- and 2-1.
Mick
April 07, 2005
Bernard, Cannon Balls, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahayou German a***e-lickers hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaEngland, England, England. Come on Arsenal, come on England
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
Bayern Munich's form was more like our first game, ordinary, than their 2nd game with us. Makaay and Pissarro out for them, in an away game no less, made them look even more ordinary. As long as Chelsea gets one of the Italian sides (I'm assuming Juve will go through) in the semis, they are out. With their run of luck they'll get the Lyon/PSV winner. The only thing I can see that may hurt Chelsea in the long term if they win the CL is that the G14 (and possibly UEFA as well) clubs will start taking a closer look at Roman's long term strategy (feeder clubs, etc.) and if they start raiding the G14 clubs of talent (Adriano, Ronaldinho, etc.) or bidding on players to stop them from strengthening (i.e. Robben and Reyes) they'll want something done. We'll be at full strength by the 20th. They've always had an inferior complex regarding us and we need to keep that going with a decisive win at the Bridge. **** Lets play 'what if?'. We get past Bayern and draw Bayern's team...Chelsea...in this game...again...I wonder how we'd respond this time?
Alex
April 07, 2005
Hear, hear North Bank!
Alex
April 07, 2005
My last post was addressed to American. I don't think that Gerard is coming, unless Wenger wants Barcelona's Gerard on a free, but I doubt it. 4-2 final score. The shame, the shame!!!!!!!!
North Bank Mural
April 07, 2005
P.S. Bit of xenophbia occuring on here at the mo. I lived in NW Germany for 4 years, worked with "the natives" and had a great time. Drop your perceptions and take everyone as you find them. As a nation we are hardly in a position to point the finger or hold ourselves up as a moral example with our sorry island mentality, blood soaked imperial history and what seems to me, year by year, a dumbed down society. Heavy manners!!
clock end clive
April 07, 2005
Er, show ponies???
North Bank Mural
April 07, 2005
This is painful but we have to admit that the cheating, lying Moanhio and Chelscum are rubbing our face in it and could well win the CL. We must at least beat them in the PL to remind them they are not invincible. PTBAG
steve c/o Coldiz
April 07, 2005
For what its worth.Ilive in Germany,Beckenbaueris pro british.Auf der insel is rather negative.I´ve been with some Düsseldorf supporters (very working class)and they know the history of brittish teams better than most whovisit the premiership clubs.Blatter is corrupt,we do´nt need to argue there but Bechenbauer is as far as I can make out a succesfull and clever buisnessman however is a gentleman and kind of honest,I´d guess.Plattini is a fuitcake,strange ideas and not exactly a visionary,however the frogs (sorry french)have a very strong lobby in europe.I´´m not overly crazy about germans but also not about aggresive drunkards that roam over the europe dring the summer ....my kinsfolk...alas-.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
AC Milan 1-0 up,look no further for the CL winners they look very formidable. I have only seen the Chavs typical flukey goal with Drogba also in an off-side position!. This is a one off season for them everyone will have sussed them out for next season but they will need a lot of good-fortune to beat AC Milan who look different class to them in this competition. Though if it stays 1-0 it will be tight in Germany when BM will have a stronger team than tonights one.
Rich
April 07, 2005
My word, just how lucky have Chelsea been this season. Another deflected goal against Bayern already. In a game where it was going to be very tight and Bayern with their top two both out injured Chelsea fluke an early one. At the time I didn't notice us have any out-of-the-ordinary luck last season (apart from no key injuries) With their wealth Chelsea can never use injuries as an excuse, it does follow that the premiership winners have probably had most of the luck in the season. Numerous deflected goals, no injuries to key men, penalties not given oh and a Russian sugar-daddy to spend more than the rest of Europe put together. I've resigned myself to Chelsea winning the premiership, but we've done that (and in more style) I really dont want them winning the Champions League!!
old man of hoy
April 07, 2005
Have to say The Kaiser remains one of the greatest players i have seen, both as a defender and midfielder. Remember this is the guy who played a World Cup semi-final against Italy with his arm strapped - that my friends is a man of substance. I have all confidence that he would grace rather than disgrace football in a supremo role. As for Germans disliking we English i would have thought there is enough recent historical evidence to make that a no discussion item? Parkerknoll - how good to hear a reference to Al Hibbler and Duke - you sound like a music lover. I recommend if you haven't heard it Little Jimmy Scott's album Falling in Love is Wonderful - superb. Google Jimmy to read about his fascinating life.
Mee
April 07, 2005
Chocolate: The friend I alluded to in my earlier posts was in fact part of the medical team at Hamburg FC. You are right Keegan is indeed still a hero there. That is because he took the trouble to learn the language and to intigrate himself thoroughly into the German way of life, to become in fact, like them. He also happened to be European footballer of the year for a couple of seasons, bringing the club the kind of success and attention they craved throughout a relatively unsuccessful era. Keegan did not fit the beguiling aryan template for sporting heroes in Germany as defined in an earlier age by Leni Riefenstahl and the nazi regime, but he did leave an indelible mark through being successful. To suggest though, that he represents a shift in the mindset of the average German and that they are full of admiration for us as a nation would be a mistake.
Sabir
April 07, 2005
American - I would love for that to be true about Neville! Re: Van Persie and Senderos. I've got really high hopes for them too but I don't think either of them have been a 'revelation'. Van Persie started off great and looked brilliant in the five or ten minute cameos. Since then he's not really done it (or over done it). There's been signs recently though that he's getting back to form. A bit like Reyes really.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
Okay, usually I'm not one for silly rumors and the like, and I haven't seen this online and I'm wondering if this is really true or a prank. A friend e mailed me this from another site and said its true:'Soccer's Phil Neville was at the centre of an amazing riddle last night over a four-letter text blasting boss Sir Alex Ferguson. The message, apparently sent from the footballer’s mobile, branded his Man United manager a 's***house' and called him 'f***ing Fergie' -Apparantly some clever journalist got Phil's mobile number and pretended he was Alan Smith moaning about Fergie. The above was his response.
Mee
April 07, 2005
Dave: I have has a lifelong friend, we met as students in the 60s, who is German. I have visited him many times and stayed with his family for extended periods. I’m afraid he conforms very much to the streotype. He can be arrogant, conceited, overbearing, loud, fervently nationalistic and dislikes most other nations. He can also be incredibly generous, caring, loyal, good-natured and utterly charming. A bit like most people really.
Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 07, 2005
'Chelscum are utterly dependant on their owner and once he's gone they'll just be ordinary again. It will be a great pleasure for me to beat this company!' Well I cant argue with Bixente Lizerazu's comments on this one! As for Joe Cole suggesting we all get behind them because they're English thats the funniest thing I've heard all year. I hope the Germans stuff them so 'Come on Bayern!' Come on Arsenal.
chocolate gooner
April 07, 2005
Sometimes one despairs. The Germans don’t hate us, if anything there’s more than a hint of admiration in their attitude towards everything British. Kevin Keegan is still a hero in Hamburg for crying out loud. Most Germans speak some English … in some cases damned good English too and are therefore very aware of our own culture. How many English people know the first thing about Germany or the German language? As in any relationship between two big and proud countries with different traditions and cultures… there’s a level of antipathy but it is no different from the antipathy some Scots or some of the Welsh feel towards the English and is if anything a whole lot less than that. So what’s the big deal? The issue about us being an Island isn’t so much an insult but a reflection of the insular nature of a lot of our attitudes.. and who can argue with that. As for seeing themselves as the master race… don’t make me laugh. This a country that has a far more pacifist attitude than we have… who despite having a larger economy spend far less on defence than we do. The Germans are not perfect but we aren’t either. And whatever we are; we aren’t so perfect as to expect to be admired as a right. Grow up. Too many of us still feel an infantile need to define our patriotism not as a pride in our country and it’s rich and varied history but in opposition to other countries and that is truly sad. Cheers. … … … … … … … … I see an antithesis and I see a thesis but I still see no synthesis. To the poor benighted Decaf Kant’s ‘Antinomies’ are proof of his idiotic claim that he (Kant) finished the job of the Sophists! And this guy is a teacher! I’m a fool to bother with this clown. Pathetic. The rest is RUBBISH. Cheers all and goodnight.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
www.arsenal.com/article.a...cle=268384well, more indication that Cole's contract will be sorted out. If he's being connected with a club supported charity on a long term basis, it means they expect him around. I am happy to see signs of the club doing whatever it takes to keep him.
Dave
April 07, 2005
You see, a typical misinterpretation when you don`t know the language comes along like in the case of the word "Islanders".The German term "die von der Insel" cannot be translated as islander. It is meant much more offensively. It means that lot who live on that isle over there. It is definitely not endearing. It is meant to express that the people on the island over yonder are backward half-wits. No, I could joke about this but I am far too serious about it and want you to understand the difference between living in a country for years and just observing from far. I am not saying all i bad in Germany, not at all. What condoning them non-stop is unrealistic and does not do justice to the real situation. They rae very envious and critical of the Insel and support whoever the Brits play against. I donNt care what unqualified peaople will answer. I will only take seriously the people who have lived there.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
A sign of just how strong we are is that, even if we don't sign any new players (I certainly hope we do) we have a formidable 15 or 16 players here already. We'll have every first team player healthy in a couple weeks (when is Bergy back by the way?). Cesc, Flamini, Senderos and van Persie's emergence has been a relevation. We're already aware of Clichy's quality and good reports coming from the youth from the reserve game match reports on here. Lupoli, Eboue, Hoyte, the defender Dj...something or another, and we don't need much tweaking. 2, but no more than 3 key signings at the very most this summer is all we need. I honestly think if we can stay healthy, we could win it next year with no new signings. A bold statement? Yes, but I firmly believe it. I look forward to the summer. The future is very bright. We are developing a great 'spine' to our side. Senderos at the back, Cesc not only has the skills that are so evident, but also and I think most importantly, he has a steely spirit. Doesn't mind the physical game at all and if that article about him is accurate, relishes it. We need somone up front who can complete that spine along with Henry. Will it van Perise, Lupoli, Quincy, Aliadiere? Who knows. But someone will emerge I think. I am very excited not only about next season but looking into the future, about 3 or 4 seasons from now.
Dave
April 07, 2005
Well said Babu. You know what you are talking about. I am sick and tired of Bernard stubbornly sticking up for anything German. You know zero about them. It is pathetic. Listen to guys who have LIVED there, not just visited or heard something on TV. Babu`s observations are spot on and I can tell he has lived there because he has experienced precisely what I have experienced. Let me tell you something, Bernard. When you live abroad for a long time and speak the language and understand how to read between the lines of the sporting press, get the hidden insults from people at work etc etc. you start to really get to know a country. You see I am not sitting in Cockney land like you and pretending I am a thorough-bred European.
You know nothing about the Germans and you stick up for them just out of principle. It has become an obsession.
But it is not convincing.Not to uys who have really lived there. You should have heard Lothar Matthaus on German TV in his interview on the Highbury pitch ahead of the second leg. Nauseating primitive nationalism and pure scorn for the Gunners.So, unless you have done real field work and research Bernard, I would prefer you tell us more about Hackney marshes than Germany.
AmericanGooner
April 07, 2005
Very interesting post JamesLT, I am aware of both candidates only from watching old films of their playing days. I have no idea about their administrative skills or their views on the future of the game. With regards to the UEFA presidency, I would think money would play a major role, right? If so, then you need 4 english sides for the global viewing audience. A 4th place team like Liverpool would get far more of a global audience than say a Dortmund, Schalke or Bremen. I'd even go as far as to say that Bayern Munich wouldn't draw as many global fans as any of the 4 English sides in this year's tournament. **** Steve Martin, I totally agree about Henry. Its tantamount to a crime he hasn't gotten the World Player of The Year award. I have a Man Yoo friend who used to argue with me about RVN and now all he says is 'who's better in Europe'. A weak argument by someone not wanting to concede the obvious. **** david.d, JamesLT is correct, he committed suicide. A future show will be dedicated to him. There is a fund that was started for his child. He is from the city I went to HS in. **** Alex, I grew up with basketball as my first love. Still like it. But with the amount of adverts they put in games nowadays that has made a 2 hour game into 3 hours with too much commercials and the way the game has changed to less fundamentals and just dunks, I'm not enjoying like I once had. Not sure if you know this but Henry is a big fan of the sport and is a friend of a player on a team called.....SPURS!!!! San Antonio to be exact. It just so happens that that same team is a major rival of the local team here so its desitiny that I hate Spurs.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
So what nationality are you babu? I think I do talk about things I know about, and I know I respect the Germans. And you say Beckenbauer could play a bit. You are joking aren't you? He is the very best defender I have ever seen. Watch it Truegooner, someone will ask you to define antediluvian soon.
East End Gooner
April 07, 2005
Bernard - what nonsense about the names. I know you have deep-seated and
somewhat disturbing leanings towards the Germans but why would Kraut be more
offensive than Islanders? It depends entirely on the connotations you apply to
the respective names. As it is, I find the Germans fine. Problem is I dont
disbelieve what a number of people on here with first hand knowledge say about
how they perceive us and what they say about us. And if this is true, they are a
bit weak because I go there once a year for a conference and no-one has ever
suggested anything like that to me. They are all very charming etc and I have
been to Munich, Liepzig (which I liked a lot) and Stuttgart (which seemed a bit
like Basingstoke). If they really thought those things they should have been
less pleasant to me. I would have respected that more.
Mee
April 07, 2005
Truegooner: By reinforcing the stereotype, I was assuming you’d realise I was laughing at myself. I apologise if my post had an antediluvian persuasion to it.
babu
April 07, 2005
bernard...I want to be be a lot more offensive about them, but am trying to respect the forum. But you have your opinion, I have mine. I remember when I was at school in Hessen and we would play football, and sometimes I would be Der Bomber. I liked him, great player, great bloke,so I can't say I dislike all germans, but der kaiser really is a wonk-stain. Please believe me, there is nothing about him that I respect. He could play footy a bit, but so could schmeichel, cantona, hoddle, etc., etc., and I don't respect them as people either. Get real, and talk about something that you know about. And as for me being english, hmmmm ...
Truegooner
April 07, 2005
Mee-you dont seriously believe that women cancel things juist because of "headaches" do you? How deeply antediluvian of you!
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Well I think there's a big difference between Ferguson and Beckenbaeur. And calling British people something to do with the island sounds less offensive to me than calling Germans Krauts, which many English people do, including yourself.
babu
April 07, 2005
That was meant to be from me, not from you to yourself, sorry, I'm tired. franzl, as I like to call him, is in the same mould as old red nose, and if you respect that sort of person then that is your choice. I am trying to be politically correct, and not to swear or be hysterical, as some of my other posts have been, but really you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to bayern or germany. They refer to the british as "the people from the island", which tends to insinuate in-bred, narrow-minded peasants, and they brand the english football in the same way( not far wrong there ), and they see themselves still as the master-race. Call me stupid, I don't care, I've seen it, it must be true. Now with Mr. Wenger you have class, sorry...Class, and that is what you have with the Arsenal, that's why I love them. You do not have that with bayern, or with germany. I'll finish this post with a little song, " deutschland, deutschland unter alles, unter alles in der welt".
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005
Steve - I'm more interested in finding out how many times Beckenbauer has "scored". Anyone have those stats other than his wifes lawyers?
Bernard
April 07, 2005
I didn't just ask myself what I think of Ferguson, so I've no idea who posted that.
steve martin
April 07, 2005
You remember when we used to have debates and the media whipped up the debate with stats... What am I taking about, Henry -v- RVN and who is the best... Last season Henry scored and directly assisted in over 60 Arsenal goals, this season he has so far scored 30 goals and directly assisted in 22 others, so in less than two seasons the man has scored 66 goals and assisted in 46 other a total of 110 goals, now argue that one... Henry is without doubt the greatest footballer of modern times, has anyone in fact been so prolific... Just think, if he played as many games, such as all Carling and Fa Cup matches, how many the total would be... TH14, is the best of the best of the best... nuffink, a chelsea chav could against that...
bernard
April 07, 2005
bernard...what do you think of Sir Alex Ferguson???
Bernard
April 07, 2005
babu, so what if he's had a few affairs. So did Princess Diana and it didn't put many people off her. And in what way is he so corrupt, because being wealthy and influential is not necessarily the same thing. And why are Bayern Munich evil at all, albeit you think less so than Chelsea. To me the term hysterical nonsense seems a fitting description of what you're saying about Beckenbauer and Bayern.
babu
April 07, 2005
And Cannon Balls...I hope bayern win tonight, for the GOOD of football, better to have the lesser of two evils.
babu
April 07, 2005
bernard...morally he had a very public affair, and a few not public ones,and he is Mr. Corrupt, and he is really doing very nicely for himself.He is VERY biased towards bayern, which I guess I would be if in the same position for Arsenal, but I am not, so I suggest taking a person who has not been so biased in his dealings in his country, as I suggest that if he were dealing with world events then he would be biased towards germany. Admittedly I don't know how he could influence anything, but I am sure if there's a will there's a way, and he would be willing to do anything for his own ends.
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Babu,that may be true what you say - but all of this came about because Chelsea are playing BM; and some of their supporters like GunGun are trying to tie in the Kaiser v Platini issue into the match issue by claiming that Chelsea need to win for the good of football.Total nonsense!.The two events have no connection.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
babu, what is it that makes him such a bad person?
babu
April 07, 2005
tom dean...you're really cool. Can I be your friend ??
babu
April 07, 2005
Cannon Balls...Blatter is swiss, for one, and he is a real bastard, unfortunately. Corruption is alive and well, and the swiss are a major part of this. How do you think they got the next euro. championships with austria ??? And now they only have 3 stadiums that are suitable, as the Zuerich Stadium got thrown out by the people, although one of the requirements was for 4 stadiums suitable to play the finals.Unfortunately I agree with the conspiratory theory, the kaiser (written with a small k on purpose) is really a very bad person, in his private life and in his football world. Platini on the other hand I think is a lot better, and definetly preferable to that kraut.
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005
I think Toms finding it hard to come to terms with the fact he's not the only Gay in the chelsea village!
Cannon Balls
April 07, 2005
Once years ago i inadvertaintly accepted the offer of a ride back to London on a coach full of Jevovah's Witnesses from the West Country after my car broke down. And from the experience i drew the conclusion that the only way that you ever get a group of people to all agree on something is to brain-wash them into believing it. Old GunGun the main, 'lets all be friends and love Chelsea because they are doing no harm guys', is himself a serial abuser - throwing insults around, particularly at me for some unknown reason on this forum. That is not a problem to me,only the stupidity of his posts, which he insists on keep posting to me about Chelsea - Aah! Bisto - had more brains and he is a Spuds Supporter!. Debate is not just about adopting a conciliatory attitude - it's about argument and difference of opinion,which can become heated at times,but who want's to just have a boring harmonious discussion with everyone holding the same view?. Only a moron like GunGun.
Mee
April 07, 2005
The use of other peoples handles is getting really tiresome - at least you can detect the false ones - just look at the spelling - or is it some kind of new text speak. Don’t expect Deano to comment on Al Hibbler.
Alex
April 07, 2005
Hiya i see that Tom dean is still here why cant he just go away hasnt he got anything else to do
Phil
April 07, 2005
If people like Tom continue to abuse this forum then unfortunately it is going to go downhill fast which is very sad considering recent events. Ignoring him so he gets bored of his own stupidity is probably the best bet but if one is as devoid of mental ability as he clearly is then I question the fact that he could actually get bored. Someone in authority on this forum needs to act because I for one get fed up scrolling through his rubish and all the false postings.
Boomtownchav
April 07, 2005
Yes I left my E-mail. Thought you could give us a shout without all this b*llocks
adam
April 07, 2005
is that you rik rak
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 07, 2005
I've been listening all afternoon to a track called "Do Nothin 'till You Hear From Me" sung by Al Hibbler, originally a Duke Ellington track I believe, I've been searching for the CD for about 5 years and finally got it from 101cd.com this morning. If you want to listen to a real voice then track this down, a real goosebumper of a voice.
Boomtownchav
richardw1@oce.co.uk
April 07, 2005
I am shocked at the level of total rubbish on this Forum.
Hot news your having a laugh, Bin Laden, the Germans, who gives a s*it, although I did like the comment that you can say what you like "because you can". 2nd Place "lets keep it" what rubbish, were a shadow of last season and as far as Europe goes weve become a bit of a joke. The Yids in two weeks thats important, not some bloody has been Kraut.
Daz
April 07, 2005
i agree too it would be great fun and thierry henry could join in because he is soooooo fit.
Mee
April 07, 2005
i agree it would be a fantastic money erner living in arsenal where all the gays live
Daz
April 07, 2005
It's still funny, Tom, but not quite AS funny.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
That last post wasn't by me. Isn't using other people's handles or names worth a warning, Niall? Presumably it's Tom.
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Ithink i Daz, Mee , steve martin Exiled in newcastle, cannon balls and the commontator should start up a gay club seings we are all gay . Do you agree?
Bernard
April 07, 2005
Does anyone know what 'bitty' is? Daz, what was Martin Hayes a genius at, because it certainly wasn't playing football?
Daz
April 07, 2005
Don't come the cowboy with me, Sonny Jim.
Daz
April 07, 2005
Tom's a thirty five year old computer studies student from Guildford. Still listening to the beautiful and brilliant Kirsty McColl - see I'd far prefer to talk about that or Open Water or the genius of Martin Hayes than high-falutin' and possibly homosexual German words but if I get sidetracked then blame the sidetracker. Really nice song playing about her friend who goes to Australia. And he says it's brilliant there/there's something in the air/and sunshine everywhere/he's on the beach/and though he's changed somehow/it's in his postcards now/he's in Australia/but he's out of reach. Sweet and melancholy but in a good way like all the best songs.
Bernard
April 06, 2005
I've been trying to work out if Tom is either illiterate or dyslexic.
Mee
April 06, 2005
Bernard - i stand corrected, wasn’t aware of that.
Spaz
April 06, 2005
Tom's a wind-up. I was so waiting for the comment from "Commentator"". First time, post, Commentator? I suspect not. Don't love Jeremy Beadle either, Bernard, although I have much more time for Fidel Castro.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
You see Daz - that is inventive stuff. And they say education is going downhill these days. Tom couldn't come from that world. He just isn't sharp enough.
Bernard
April 06, 2005
Daz, don't you think it would be nice if we could all just love each other because we're all gooners, even Osama Bin Laden?
Daz
April 06, 2005
EEG: How about "your mum's E*G is so diseased the crabs are making rafts out of the scabs" which I heard the other day on the bus from one of the yout' dem. Don't go, decaf, I understand the sudden nausea but, you know what, E*G the boring po-faced E*Gs. If anybody else posts about "why can't we just love each other because we're all gooners" I think I'll throw up. It's E*Gs. First, I don't love all gooners. Second, I often call the ones I love E*Gs. And third - as decaf quite correctly says - often the debate does start about football and sometimes it segues (whoah!) into something else. If a certain poster is going to start fights about them or wilfully misrepresent you he's gonna get corrected. Should I be mature about it and turn the other cheek? Yeah probably but then if I was mature and grounded I wouldn't be on a forum in the first place. So suck it up, stop bleating like a bunch of girls, and get on with posting about WHATEVER YOU WANT. Here's the good news: nobody is stopping you.
JamesLT
April 06, 2005
DAVID.D: I think the guy you mentioned from "The Contender" killed himself. I haven't seen the show, but I've heard it's good. I did read something about it though, saying one of the contenders put a gun to his head after losing his fight and then arguing about custody of his child with his partner. Very tragic...
Bernard
April 06, 2005
I might be wrong but I seem to remember Platini once recommending to one of our French players, Vieira would be my guess, that he should join Juventus. So Mee, if my memory is correct, I don't agree that any self respecting Arsenal fan should automatically prefer him to get the job rather than Beckenbauer. Myself, I don't really care which one gets it.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Exiled,ok the GG comparasion was a little unfair though tiny acorns grow into tall Oak Trees - etc. But my point was that there is no evidence that Beckenbauer will be any worse than Platini from 'our' point of view if elected, probably no better either - despite the supposed French Connection. The failures of ourselves and United, etc, in Europe are not down to some conspiracy to thwart our ambition - but rather the unpalatable truth that we have not been good enough. Let's see if the Blue Scum can do any better.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
"Shcool"! See I can even do the spelling. Think Mr Deane is a wind up though since even the 7 year-olds my wife taught were a bit more cutting.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
Actually - very sorry everyone. Extremely childish I know, but before she retired on the grounds of laziness, Mrs EEG was a teacher in a primary shcool in Hackney and I was trying to put into practice some of the youth communication skills she taught me.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
I know Tom - I think I caught it from your mum. Didn't realise these things could be sexually transmitted you see. And especially doing it that way.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
Cannon - if your comments were based on a lack of national bias from Blatter then I'm not going to argue that one, but comparing the levels of corruption at FIFA with the likes of GG is just daft in my view. He has systematically raped football for his own personal gain and has absolutely no interest in the 'sport'. Him beating Johanssen was probably the worst thing to happen to football since the odious Havelange took power. If anyone has any doubts about how bad these people have been for football then Daid Yallop's book 'How They Stole The Game' is as good a place to start as any. It really is one hell of a shocking story.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Exiled, what you suggest about Blatter may well be true - but there is no evidence that he hasused his position to help Germany that i have ever heard suggested. Which is what Mick,GunGun suggest will happen if the Kaiser gets crowned. And let's be honest here if we want to look for corruption in football or sport in general we do not have to look much further than England - and the people like Ferguson and scum or Kenyon at Chelsea and we even had our own one at Highbury with GG getting caught with his hands in the till. I am only using Blatter to argue that there is no evidence that Beckenbauer will indulge in a fevered frenzy of teutonic one-sideness in favour of the Vaterland should he become King of Uefa; i have no argument with Blatter being a greedy self perpetrating money grabber b*****d, that is par for the course at the top in sport everywhere - including unfotunately the UK.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
I suppose it depends on what you intended to do at your "meeting" Mee. He might have thought it the traditional let-down in the circumstances.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
Or even "sow". And what has this to do with pigs?
Mee
April 06, 2005
Exiled: Surely any self respecting Arsenal fan would vote for Platini? On a more personal level, I once had an appointment to meet Der Kaiser (a german friend of mine was his doctor at that time) but he cancelled our meeting saying he had a headache! I thought only women cancelled things because of headaches.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
Come off it "Commentator". Enough of the pious "reap what you so" nonsense. Clearly you are a commentator of the Alan Green variety?
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
Cannon - hold on - 'Blatter has done an excellent job'. Let's make no bones about this... Blatter has done an incredibly bad job for football and an incredibly good job for his personal wealth. He has continued the mass corruption that Havelange started (Blatter was his protege, and if memory serves his son-in-law). He has done nothing what so ever for the good of football and is solely responsible for many (all) of the stupid competitions foisted upon us. He uses FIFA as his own personal 'junket' supplier and continuously shaves off vast amounts of tickets for major events for his cronies and such like. I've no real opinions either way about Beckenbauer/Platini to be honest - which ever one gets in will have a natural bias towards there home country (as did Stanley Rous when he was head of
FIFA).
Alan Hedges
April 06, 2005
According to Sky Sports, http://skysports.planetfootball.com/Article.asp?id=268337 Arsenal seem to be very interested in the Italian striker Andrea Caracciolo. what do you all think of this as a possible buy??
Commentator
April 06, 2005
Proof that you reap what you sow.The new poster known as Tom Dean seems to be conducting the exact same type of discourse as Chocolate & Daz,etc. except he does not seek to disguise the reasons for his attacks with references to fancy german words or obscure philosophical references.He calls you a "spaz" or a "no mates retard" simply because he suspects you might disagree with him.In reality I fear he is a joke wind up.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Mick,i have no knowledge that Beckenbauer 'robbed' SA of the world cup,i was not aware that SA had ever won it. Though i understand that it was stolen in London once, some people unkindly suggest twice!. Your obsession with the Germans rigging the football competitions for their own ends seems rather far fetched. I have already pointed out that Blatters been in charge of FIFA for years and done an excellent job. Beckenbauer is a reasonable man with a wealth of experience, and i would sooner him than someone like the drunken jock Ferguson running Uefa, then i would be worried. Kenyon phew! - time to watch Cricket, thats always been uncorrupted, oh!- hang on a moment - there was that scandal about match fixing though - where was it now ? - oh yes - South Africa!!!.
david.d
April 06, 2005
american - yes thats the programme(the contender). one of the best exports you have provided to us. in the last episode there was a guy called najib turner who was a bit of a loner but seemed very sure of himself but he lost the fight to sergio i think it was. it brought a lump to my throat as he was clearly distraught that he had lost and he had let down his wife and his little daughter and broke down as his daughter cuddled him. at the end of the credits it said in loving memory of najib so its obvious he has died this year. do you know what happened to him american? one of the best bits so has been when ishe gave a beating to ahmed kaddour who must be one of the most conceited arrogant guys who has ever lived. i think he would have eaten himself if he could! i think they they are still in the first round of fights so there is still a long way to go. if the tragedy you are referring to isnt the death of najib then leave me in suspense! what did you think of the programme anyway?
steve martin
April 06, 2005
Looking at the tables this season, I find it hard to believe the goalscoring of some teams, Only one has reached 70, one 60 and then it's united in the 40's... Take the Championship as well, the highest scorers are Ipswich 76 goals, the only team to score more than Arsenal, yet they have played 10 games more... Just like Chelsea, all that matters is defence, yet is it not ironic that we used to be called boring, but now the 4-5-1 is the norm, no one else seems to be tarred with the tag...
adam
April 06, 2005
arsenal are the best wats all this tom dean stuff about slasggin off arsenal
Exiled in newcastle
April 06, 2005
i am actually a newcastle fan spying on u stupid arsenal fans
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
No Tom you 'iz' not too late for me - just too stupid. Go play with the traffic, there's a good boy.
Bernard
April 06, 2005
So if Beckenbauer gets the job all referees in EUFA competitions will suddenly become corrupt to ensure German clubs reach the semi-finals of the European competitions. Yeah right. Mind you, if it is true it's a shame he hasn't been appointed already, considering who Chelsea are playing tonight.
Maurice
April 06, 2005
Regaining second place is great ! Let's stay there till the end of the season.
Mick L
April 06, 2005
Cannon Balls I would not be too sure that Beckenbauer is as clean as you make him. The moment he is in there WILL be a German conspiracy. You can bet your bottom cannon ball on that! Don`t be naive. The Kaiser will want successs for his country and nothing else. The Vaterland is what counts for a true German. He won`t care twopence about Europe.
All Uefas refs will be desperate to oblige. Suddenly the Bundesliga clubs will all be in the semis of Europes competitions...not like this and last season when 5 clubs went out in one round. Beckenbauer proved his "integrity" when he robbed South Africa of the world cup. But you probably would not know that anyway. Platini any day. A much cleaner character than DEr Kaiser.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
Would that be 'Chapel' my young illiterate friend?
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
Tom - with the level of eloquence and intelligence you display I hope you enjoy your career as a DSS monkey.
Mee
April 06, 2005
Deano - just out of interest what are your views on ‘Existentialism in Pinters theatre?’
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
OK, old bill yesterday - DSS today. Not having had to much contact with them today was a shocker. I've a firend who's 'partially sighted'. Basically he can make out blurred shapes. Anyway, he has always worked but he's been through stuff recently that makes my life seem like a picnic and he's signed off sick. He had to drop off his sick note and asked me to go with him, which I did. We get there and there's two burly security guards just inside the door. Explained to them and asked for a pen to sign his form before handing it in. They refused! Someone was kind enough to lend us a pen and we handed in the form and the monkey started filling in the receipt. I noticed that he'd spelt my friends name completely wrong (it's not John Smith but it's just as hard) which I pointed out. 'So what?'. 'Well it's a receipt so surely he needs his name spelt right'. He then goes into a tirade about scroungers wanting everything for nothing and got even more angry when I pointed out that either my friends or my own tax bills for the year would pay his monkey wages for the year. He then refuses to accept the sick note! So I barged past monkey and sat at the first available desk where we were seen by someone else who was (slightly) more polite. The ignorance amazed me, but as I looked at the receipt on the way out one thing struck me. The official form they use is riddled with spelling mistakes - the best one being they spelt staff with one F (in a job centre). Now I know my spelling is appauling, but if they can't even spell staff...
Steve moron Martin
April 06, 2005
Phil the Gooner was a pain in the bum, but this Tom Dean fellow, is the business, please keep him on here, he is just so funny
Mee
April 06, 2005
Dear Deano - I expect you’ve got what us adults call ‘low self-esteem’ I expect your teachers have told you that already. I used to be a schoolteacher and if you ever need any help with your homework, things like spelling, I would be only too pleased to help.
Mee
April 06, 2005
Deano - may I call you that, I bet all you fav mates do!
Now you musn’t swear, that’s being a very naughty boy and that nice Mr Mourinho would be upset if he knew that, wouldn’t he.
Bernard
April 06, 2005
Dave, the fact is I couldn't give a damn whether Beckenbauer gets the job or not.
Mee
April 06, 2005
Alex: I imagine it is just that - a rumour. Tom Dean:
Good morning to you. I bet you didn’t tell your mum about missing school today - come to think of it, its half term. Make sure you get her permission to use the computer and don’t forget to turn all the lights off if you’re not using them.
Azinoz
April 06, 2005
Cannon, perfect I live very close to Botany bay anyway so I do know plenty of venues (all serving alcohol of course).
phil
April 06, 2005
anyone else noticed postings dissappearing?
Phil
April 06, 2005
Bobby yes but not Wayne...
Cannonballs
April 06, 2005
t**t
alex
April 06, 2005
phil do you know wayne ewing?
Alex
April 06, 2005
Have any of you heard the rumour of Steven Gerrard coming to Arsenal i think he will be a great buy what do you think
Phil
April 06, 2005
There is a player at the moment in Portugal playing at Benfica who has just broken into the Portuguese national team called Manuel Fernandes, he is a strong, fast skillful player who can tackle and pass the ball and scores a decent amount of goals, he covers every blade of the field and would be a fantastic signing, he is only 19 and plays like he has been around for years. For sure he won't be sticking aound in Portugal for much longer.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Azinoz,thank's i will take you up on your offer!. I expect to be in Sydney around about the 16th of December with my wife and will be staying in the Botany Bay area for a month. Nothing finalized yet - but i have told family and friends that we are coming over for Christmas - so i can't get out of it now!. My son and his girl friend are arriving in July they are touring around Asia at the moment and wanted us to come when they are there - but i prefer December when the weather is better - and also the chance to have a Christmas with relatives that i do not see that often.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
GunGun,how about conspiracy theories regarding Germans being bad for football then - or is it just the ones about Chelsea that are nonsense???. Speaking of Germans, Wenger must be furious with Lehmann after his latest 'mad-cap Jens' incident of throwing a bottle of water petulantly at the referee after the BM game at Huighbury. This two match ban will surely see the curtain come down on his time at Arsenal?. It's rather strange that the last top-class GK -Seaman - was signed by Graham back in 1990 and we kept him too long in the end when there were other good ones available.There seems to be a lack of really top class ones around at the moment. Buffon's got a big reputation but he did not look that special last night against the car-thieves - who may come to rue the clanger that their own GK made when they go to Turin to defend their narrow lead. Liverpoool made the usual EPL teams mistakes of throwing everything at Juventus in the first half and payed the price by tiring. The old Liverpool sides were able to hold on to the ball and slow the game down - our EPL teams will never do well in Europe untill they learn to do this. Let's see now if Chelsea can demonstrate the art of it tonight.
Azinoz
eddie.assirati@ce .com.au
April 06, 2005
Cannon, if Sydney is on your itinery I would consider it a pleasure to buy you lunch while your here. My email address is enclosed.
Västerås Gooner
April 06, 2005
...Who isn´t from a big football country but a small like Sweden, Finland or Belgium...
JamesLT
Zeitgeist/Squirrel Monkeys
April 06, 2005
EEG: I'm surprised no one picked up on your earlier point. This is only confidential, but I've also heard the rumour that "the look a Squirrel Monkey gives when you have entered his habitat" will definitely be added to the next edition of the Oxford English Dictionary as an alternative definition for Zeitgeist. Apparently, it isn't in general usage yet, but the dictionary will still include it to try and reflect the changing use of words. DAZ/CHOCOLATE/DAZ LITE©: Any comments?
Västerås Gooner
April 06, 2005
Dave, the reason Lennart Johansson isn´t to happy with either the english FA or Platini is because he feels he was betrayed a couple of years ago when Sepp Blatter became the FIFA president instead of him. It was "understood" that most european countries should wote for Johansson (just as all the southamericans voted for Blatter) but Blatter promised the english FA something (I can´t remember what is what all about now) but I think that is the main reason that Johansson supports the Kaiser.
For all I know it could be another person as well, someone unknown who isn´t from a "big" football country like Sweden...
JamesLT
Beckenbauer or Platini
April 06, 2005
DAVE: Personally I'd prefer Der Kaiser to Platini as the next President of UEFA. Both are quite politically shrewd and probably a little slippery at times. Johannsson (an ardent gooner) is said to be endorsing Beckenbauer, and I think with good reason. Whatever you might say to criticize him, for example that the richest clubs like Bayern might get richer, Beckenbauer is also passionate about the traditions of football - including those in England. Beckenbauer would be a realist, letting the big clubs continue to increase their dominance (good for Arsenal), while protecting the core values of football. Platini was a magical player, but like Sepp Blatter he has endless daft ideas. Remember Platini's previous proposals to (a) increase the size of the goals, (b) make teams play with 10 players instead of 11 to create more space on the field, or (c) outlaw tackling to make football a non-contact sport with players only allowed to close down on the oppostion. As UEFA boss he'd be able to introduce these and other wacky ideas on a test basis in lower leagues, and what's the betting that one or two of the President's pet ideas might then eventually be adopted either within Europe or even globally if his mentor Blatter added FIFA's endorsement. Beckenbauer is the best option for me.
Decaf
April 06, 2005
But I agree that it is nonsense, and I am cringeing. You won't see another post from me until the new season. This is a detox, and not a sulk.
Decaf
April 06, 2005
Alex: this "nonsense" did start with football debates. The problem is that a certain party, when shown to hold a completely untenable position, has a tendency to wriggle and google and attempt all kinds of sophistry in an attempt to get off the ropes. In layman's terms, this is called "running away". Are we supposed not to pursue him?
Juliano
April 06, 2005
http://www.footytorrents.cjb.net/. You'll need a bittorrent client, like bittorrent or bittornado to download files. These sites always pop up and are closed down after a couple of months only for a new one to pop up again. A couple of months ago a site was called "Maxxed Football Torrents" and I could download all Arsenal games in Divx the day after they had been played. That was really great. The URL I did paste at the top of my post seems to be in China so maybe it will take time before they can close it.
Alan Hedges
April 06, 2005
Does anyone know where I can watch / download henry's hatrick from the weekend v norwich? I missed the prem league highlights show here in Australia and was wondering if I can view it anywhere??
steve c/o Cpldiz
April 06, 2005
I must agree with Alex.This squabbling over the last three monthes has become tiresome,boring and not needed.A couple of the posters miht loo back in a couple of monthes time ans cringe with embaressment.Essien is total class,but I´m afraid he is elsewhere bound.I believe Wenger has already pre-signed his next two signings who are his BIG name ones.I´d hazzard a guess that one is Totti ad the other a keeper.Beckham or Owen would do wonders for the franchise and AG,however both are not so fleet of foot anymore andif it were on footballin rouns they´d be better off in Toonlan or Boro.
Alex
April 06, 2005
American- I'm fine. You sound in good spirits as usual. Was watching College Basketball on TV the other night. It's a big deal I take it! I think I could probably take to it if I watched it regularly, and got used to the small playing area, and amount of 'baskets'. Are you a fan? Not sure about Quincy on the right. He models himself on Henry, and is effective when cutting in on his right foot. I do agree that we need another option on the right though.
How can anyone say that Ljungberg should be sold! He's just had his best season! Loyal, hard working, and scores important goals. Irreplacable.
Alex
April 06, 2005
Mee- Don't you think signing Essien would be a little disheartening for Fabregas and Flamini? An older player would still give them hope for the future. Why is everyone defending Almunia? I assume he had a good first half. Liverpool! What is it they have that we don't? Can it really just be belief? Flumoxed!
Can people (you know who you are) stop writing such unrelated b------s. It makes scrolling through the postings such a chore. Your arguments are not witty, clever, or interesting. Please take your scwabbles elsewhere.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
CB, I forgot about his telling the scousers to shush. If he goes, I wonder who will come in? You know Roman will throw money at Wenger. That's for sure. I can't see him wanting Sven. I hope he does get him, no offense but I'm not a big fan of your national team manager. In that alleged meeting with Roman, I have to think Roman is trying hard to placate him. Kissing his you know what. As much as I would hate to see Chelsea win it, I'd take it a little bit better if Ranieri was still there. He was always a gentleman and I couldn't begrudge him getting a title. My guess is possibly one of the Italian managers. O'Neil possibly but he's staying put till Fergie leaves. One other thing to consider, will this affect them for the remaining games? Lets say they have a disappointing game v. BM, the Cole matter gets finalized and its a harsh penalty, he's still pouting and not attending to getting points. They may win it, but it may be close. No matter what happens, we have to go to the Bridge and play like its a cup final. We need to keep our hoodoo over them in the league and sow the doubts that they are ever going to be good enough to beat us consistently and the QF CL last year was a one off.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Decaf, fluke doesn't do Porto's run justice. Name a club that has gone to the final in the CL without ever facing either Juve, Milan, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich in any of the knock out stages? I would have added Man Yoo but they go them when they were imploding, having gone from 1st that January to 3rd and losign to the likes of Wolves. I am convinced Mourinho has signed a deal with the devil.
GunGun
April 06, 2005
American Gooner....Platini is the other candidate but it looks like Uefa are partial to the Kaiser and he will get it unless Platini (who being French would be probably more Arsenal-friendly)does some serious lobbying and greases a few palms good and proper. But the Kaiser can grease more, I am sure.Cannon Balls, watch out, it all might be a Chelsea conspiracy
Mee
April 06, 2005
Looks like most things at Chelsea have a spin on them these days, including we hear, the players blood.
Mee
April 06, 2005
Just watched the highlights of the Lyon game. Essien looks better each time I see him. I hope the rumours and speculation surrounding Beckham, SWP, Owen prove false because Essien is the one player who could make the difference for us. Expect a massive bid from Chelsea or RM.
GaryB
April 06, 2005
I'm trying to understand some of the forum rules - can someone help? When someone says "I'm going to ignore (insert name here)", or someone else says "end of." (as in end of discussion) - then that's *EEG right? Damn this thing is complicated.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Unless I'm mistaken, the Cole-gate matter hasn't been resolved yet, right? Perhaps that may tip Mourinho over the proverbial edge? The FA may take their cue from UEFA and feel they have to make an example of them. Anyone know when the final decision is to be handed down?
Decaf
April 06, 2005
Cannon, start with his big "I am" departure and failure to congratulate his team when Porto fluked and cheated their way to the CL last year. Right there he said "I'm bigger than all this" and he's demonstrated that attitude ever since. I'm sure the Chelsea thing is going to end in tears, but I fear not soon enough.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
I thought about some of the things that he does and if they could be a 'psychological' ploy. but he does come over has being rather erratic, the incident with the Liverpool supporters in the LC Final which he later tried to pretend was directed at the media! - and other incidents suggests that he is not the rational cool person that he tries to portray himself to be. It's common knowledge among the media in London,with who despite earlier popularity he is becoming unpopular now, that he is being 'tapped up' by Continental Clubs. Everything at the Chavs is murky so anything can happen there in that cess-pit of nefariousness.
Decaf
April 06, 2005
"The only good thing about your idiotic post is that the bits you cut and paste were understandable, which is a huge improvement on your normal fare". Lovely! Pure brass! I'll give you that. And then to ask why I quoted the passage! The question is not why I quoted that passage. The question is why you did NOT "quote" it. The police are looking for a certain CG to assist them with inquiries about a couple sentences, which, since we don't want to be too jarring, seem to have fallen off the back of a truck. **** On to footy: what did you make, Choc, of the perfomance of the "'fortuitously stumble across' the odd car" lot from Mersey. Do you think they could "fortuitously stumble across" it from the Chavs?
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Dave, who will probably get the post? Beckenbauer or Platini? Who's the leading candidate?
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Very jealous of you, lucky b-----d!! I love to traveling to different countries. Interesting about Mourinho not attending the away match possibly. I wonder how the players are taking it? I'd think he'd like to show a sign of support to his players by being in the stands. Knowing his being there helps, if even a little bit. Strange. This is a stretch, but could his tirade be part of some big design of his? He was a psychology major and does and says things for a desired effect. **** Exiled, I'll be doing the scripting. ;-)
Dave
April 06, 2005
Daniel Cohn Bedit has seen the light and wants to form an alliance to stop Beckenbauer becoming UEFA chief.
Johannsen though has said he will support Beckenbauers application. No surprise as Johannsen strangely was awarded the German Cross of merit out of the blue by the German interior minister. The story is bent and crooked before it has started and reminds me and apparently other forumites about how Beckenbauer pinche dthe World Cup from undewr Mandelas nose. Bernard, come out in defence of your bretheren.....
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
American, from what i can gather Mourinho is also refusing to go to the away leg in Germany too. And if he is disillusioned then it could have a knock on effect on the the Chavs - his psychological motivation playing a large part in their success. The 'Tag- Team' wrestling sounds fun, i may be in New York for a few days before Christmas. Probably October - but i guess that's a fair way from the main event,i will have to make do with a visit to Nevada Smiths for a few beers and watch some 'soccer'instead!. It depends on whether or not i can find the time, i am going to the Black Sea resort of Varna, Bulgaria in August and have trips to Istanbul, and Cairo on the itinerary too. Then in December it's off to OZ for a month over Christmas and the New Year. But i have had an invite to go to New York and keep promising to go, it's a few years since last i was there, so i have to fit that in somehow if i can among my many other various activities - like posting on here!.
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
American - if it's going to be 'anything goes' WWE who's going to write the script and set up the stunts? It's not real wrestling like Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks...and Jimmy Saville!!!
N5er
April 06, 2005
Bernard (and Nico) thanks for the info re Diamond club, needless to say I know what I'll ask for next Xmas! ;_)
Decaf
April 06, 2005
American, I thought that Liverpool were nothing short of *G* in the second half. Took the foot completely off Juve's neck (note the wrestling theme) and paid the consequence. Silly.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Decaf, I concur about their first half performance. They had to dredge up le Tallec from St. Ettiene for goodness sakes. Gerrard had to play striker on Saturday. I would love for them to go through only if I knew for sure Chelsea wouldn't. I'd rather have Chelsea face Juve instead of the scousers if they make it to the next round. If Juve scores in the first half in Turin its over. Chasing a game at Juve is not what you want to do (although the Mancs did it in '99...and I was praying otherwise at the time). **** CB, it may be a reason why Deco didn't follow him to Chelsea. He knew the kind of nutter he was and was good enough to write his own ticket to top clubs. Carvallo and some of his other Porto players didn't have a name so they followed the money. As for the wrestling match, its WWE, so its anything goes. There are a couple of loud mouthed, puny-looking, cockney Man Yoo guys at the pub that couldn't beat eggs. They'd make good 'Cannon fodder'. **** Where is that Chelsea fan that comes on here once in a while, Charlie is it? I'm curious as to what the Blues fans generally think about it. I peaked at a forum of their last week and they were doing the 'we're being treated harshly because everyone is jealous of us' thing. Can't say I wouldn't feel the same if it were us, but we took our handbags at OT punishment like men. 4 first team players banned and fined and we responded by winning.
Decaf
April 06, 2005
American, I thought that Liverpool were nothing short of brilliant in the first half, and Garcia splendid. (I haven't watched the second yet.) It just shows what you can do when you have the players and you decide to take the game by the scruff of the neck. That what we are good at. Its utter nonsense that it doesn't work in Europe. Leave the cagey stuff the Italians, I say.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
The Car-Thieves had a chance at 2-0 but that away goal is makes it tough. We went there once long ago and won 1-0 in Turin - somehow though i can't see the scousers keeping a clean-sheet,Juve hit the post in the first half too and i can see them getting a couple of goals at home. Even 2-0 it would have still been tough,but you never know in football but i would not put any money on Liverpool to get through. Shame really because the EPL will not have any teams in the next round!.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Liverpool must be doing it with smoke and mirrors. They looked great in the first half. 2-0 half time lead. Still think they will not go through, especially having given up the away goal. A 1-0 win in Turin is totally within the realm of possibilities. **** I wonder if Cole-gate had not happened if Ash would have been captain on Saturday? He's the longest serving Arsenal player wasn't he?
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
American,put me down for the Tag-Team - only though if i am allowed to use a Base-Ball Bat !.
George Bernard Shaw
April 06, 2005
"What I say today everybody will say tomorrow, though they will not remember who put it into their heads. Indeed they will be right for I never remember who puts things into my head : it is the Zeitgeist." I hope everyone enjoyed scrolling today.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Mourinho is getting too carried away with himself and the amount of incidents that he has been involved in show that he cannot handle pressure.The manic celebrations after each win for example are an indication of that - he is a control freak and obviously resents Kenyons participation in the running of affairs. He could head for the exit at the end of the season and go to a bigger club that he feels is more in keeping with his 'genius' if he feels that Chelsea are not really worthy of him. It all addds more pressure on tomorrow nights match and it will be interesting to see how the Chavs handle it.If they come unstuck Mourinho can blame his absence - if they do ok it will be down to his careful planning and coaching!.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
CB, frankly I didn't think Mourinho will go, but if he does and it seems a bit more likely with each passing day, he is such a cry baby!! He will definitely not work well with the pressure cooker that Real Madrid is. Okay, be upset you didn't get the proper support but if he ups and quits, I'll have more than a good laugh about it all. **** DaveM, first of all thanks for your posts on the reserves as well. I agree with part of your recent post that Ljundberg and Gilberto are better suited for certain type of opponents. I disagree however on the opponent. Against the likes of Bolton, Man Yoo and other clubs who show more skill in kicking a shin than a football, we need Freddie. He's a battler. He has bottle and will not be intimidated as a Pires or a Reyes might be. That's where players like Parlour were very handy in as well. Against the flair sides, especially in Europe and the lesser sides in the league or against any side that wants to play football, flair and skill on the ball are more relevant. I'd take Quincy over Freddie in those types of games. Or Cesc instead of Gilberto. **** I really like playing Cole and Clichy on the left at times. I'm not saying it should be our first choice selection but if we're trying to protect a lead and make substitutions, having them both on the left is something to consider. Each time they've played there as a LB/LW team they have played in sync together and at times switched positions and one will go forward while the other stays. It also adds a lot of pace to the left side and keeps the other teams honest who have to worry about a counter. They know each others game well which I have to conclude comes from training together in the same position. **** Parkerknoll Gooner, he's also pledged a billion dollars to advance black and minority students in getting high tech college degrees. He's a bit of a philanthropist here and unlike most of our rich, I don't think its for the tax benefits or to garner good PR so they don't get tagged with an oligarch label. Not excusing some of the corporate practices of his company however, just acknowledging some of the good. He can buy and sell Roman a few times over. **** Niall and Daz, I'd like to fly you two over here to be the undercard for my Dyer/Bowyer main event. I'm turning promoter. The other under card is a Man Yoo supporter and an Arsenal supporter in a WWE tag team wrestling match. I'm participating in that one. I'm thinking of asking Cannon Balls to partner me. All 4 will be wearing their clubs shirt. I'm hoping Sky will televise live to you guys. I'll need one of you to do the FanZone portion for Arsenal.
Gaz ( B/Wood )
April 06, 2005
Just a little piece (from the emirates website) on our new Stadium. Most of it we've all seen but it does include one image (walking up the steps) that I've never seen. http://www.emirates.com/miniSites/Offers/Arsenal/TheEmiratesStadium/TheEmiratesStadium.asp Come on Arsenal.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Aliadiere was quoted recently to be unhappy (since retracted but..) and he can't complain. He's been given chances and had the bad luck of suffering injuries. Not Wenger's fault. He can't blame the club for hindering his progress. I certainly do hope he progresses and pushes van Persie, Lupoli, Quincy and others for a starting position. It would be great if we found our striker from within without having to buy, but as it stands we may need some quality from elsewhere till they develop to the standards that we require. **** david.d, regarding The Contender tv show, is that the same one we have here that we exported to you guys? With Sylvester Stallone of Rocky fame and former champ Sugar Ray Leonard? There is a boxer from Philly that has a tragic thing happen. I won't spoil it by saying too much, but its a bit touching when they get to it. **** Finishing 2nd will mean we get a tougher draw in the group stages, right? **** Not sure Myles Palmer agreeing with me that Pires was the main one at fault for the Norwich goal is a good thing or bad thing. Some things he writes is original, but the self back slapping and political rants and family business stuff gets a bit annoying.
AmericanGooner
April 06, 2005
Alex, Eskimo and Xav T (how are things with you by the way?)thanks for your comments on the game. Quincy is interesting. I have repeatedly said I think he should be used on the right so that he can get minutes since we are lacking someone to challenge Freddie on the right. Also, because I think he'll do the same job for us what Ronaldo does for Man Yoo when he's on his game. I want SWP but in the meantime, we can add someone who can dribble with pace and beat their man on the right. I think if he's put in some games he'll bring his quality of play up to meet the standards of the PL. Its time for him to get minutes in the first team. He'll make mistakes as he's learning but I think he'll be a revelation. If Reyes goes, which eliminates a striker/winger, I'd buy Yakubu and have Freddie, Pires and Quincy play left and right wings for us and Clichy substituted on if we are defending a lead late in the game. **** I certainly think Eboue is our full back. Hoyte is no slouch either. I like Lauren. He bleeds red for the shirt. I think we can win with Lauren in the first team but for my money, we have a better player in Eboue and a better player for the future than Lauren in Hoyte. I'd like him on the bench to play RB or center mid if we need a substitution. I've heard some say he can or should play wide right. What? He's not a wide right player. He may have played there before but that doesn't mean he's good at it. I pitched for 2 years as a kid in baseball but I'm no pitcher. **** As for the copy and pasting. I wish some would copy and paste what I actually said at times. ;-)
Decaf
April 06, 2005
Apols Babiolakis? One of Nico's cousins?
The Kant Copper
From Sections 50-54, Prolegomena (Kant)
April 06, 2005
Choco asked:
"in which case may I suggest that you do likewise and stumble across a website which will confirm that Kant is linked to the dialectical method of antithesis: thesis: synthesis?" Decaf is out having a puff (and enjoying it greatly, Niall) and slaying wild beasts, and asked me to look this up. Sorry that it doesn't come from a google site, and for any errors (as I copied it out of a silly old thing call as book)! Kant says: "Thesis: The world has, as to time and space, a beginning (limit). Antithesis: The world is, as to time and space, infinite. I pledge myself as to the correctness of all these proof--and reason therefore perceives that it is divided against itself ... The only possible way in which reason could have revealed unintentionally its secret dialectic ... blah, blah, blah". Totally inconclusive, right?
Exiled In Newcastle
April 06, 2005
Whos Apols?
Decaf
April 06, 2005
DaveM: I agree with most of what you say, particular about Ljungberg. I'm not sure about Gilberto at all. I'd like to see Fred used as an impact player, playing for maybe the first half, running around like a maniac, and making a nuisance of himself in the box, and using his experience. I think Fred is useful against any opposition (not just Norwich), but I can't see the point of him plodding up and down the touchline for 90 minutes, creating very little, and I hope van Persie gets a lot more time there next season.
Decaf
April 06, 2005
And a splendid one it was too, Mee, although I must say that almost all of the interesting posts today have had little to do with football. Could it be the "football only" people are a little jealous? Oh, and Choc, I take back "dextrously scuttling". There is nothing dextrous about you at all. You are a sinister little E*G.
Niall
April 06, 2005
Apols, I have accidently lost the postings from April the 4th in case you are wondering where they went when updating the site. I fully accept due whipping in good grace!!
Decaf
April 06, 2005
Choc, you can ignore me if you like. In any case, you'll find I never START any non-football debate (now who is the one most responsible for that?), and why one earth should I respond to attacks either to myself, to logic, to honesty, or to good taste? One just wonders how much of what you contribute here is lifted wholesale from other sites. Fair enough I suppose to use terrorist tactics when you are completely outgunned, which would say was the case even when the pompous LT rolled in and has an unsavoury encounter with Dazs behind. You also seriously underestimate South African undergrads. If I said a "answer ONE question out of four," and then changed the rules (and inserted several other questions) after they had written the exam, and worse, refused to explain when I have given people zero, there would be a bit of a fuss.
Mee
April 06, 2005
The last two postings ascribed to mee - weren’t from me - my last posting was the Roy Bentley one.
DaveM
April 06, 2005
The key to players like Gilberto and Ljungberg is they are good for certain types of games and bad for others. If we only played sides likes Norwich on sunny days then there'd be no problem and we'd win the league by miles. Unfortunately, the league is decided in games against your close rivals and when playing physical, committed teams who close down and foul repeatedly, on days where the weather ain't great. Gilberto and Ljungberg aren't best suited to that, as they have shown time and time again. This would be fine if Wenger would drop them after bad performances or would take into account the opposition when picking the side, but he won't. Therefore we won't win the league and we won't be able to beat awkward sides like BM either whilst those two are in the squad.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Well the wheels are starting to come off already at the Bridge .Murinho is refusing t be a he game tomorrow nigh and says he is not getting the backng of the club. Adios amigo!!!Real Madrid here he comes..
Steve Martin
April 06, 2005
Not sure how many of you are members of Arsenal, well today I got my membership magazine… Just a few facts for you, there are 21.161 goal level members… 23.410 silver members… 44.098 red level members and 14.404 junior gunners… The oldest member is Mr G Phillips (93) the closest member is Thomas Collins 0.1 Km’s from the ground, the furthest Jeff Dobson, Kalliness, Shetland Islands… Furthest overall member Michael Ham, Parnel, Auckland, most popular district for members N1 1866 members… the average season ticket holder is 44 years old and live 32 Kms from the ground and 89% are male, red level members live an average 77,4 kms from the ground…
mee
April 06, 2005
sorry about tom dean
mee
April 06, 2005
do you really think iam going to set roy bently on you.
your a moron because you beleved me
DaveM
April 06, 2005
The reserves were excellent last night. I though Djourou and Van Persie had particularly good games. Djourou is going to be a sensation. I think he's a better prospect than Senderos (the Swiss aren't half going to have a good central defence). He's ready for first team action, and could certainly be considered when we're counting our centre-backs for next season. For an 18 year old he's certainly big, he's quick, good in the air, tackles well, is a leader (he was really helping Eboue) and he's as good a footballer as you're likely to find at centre-back. I haven't been so excited since I first saw Cesc play. All in all I thought the defence was probably better than the one we played on Saturday. VP is creating as well as scoring, and I think he could yet make it for us. Aliadiere is a natural goalscorer, and I'd like him to stay. When Reyes leaves that would leave us with Henry, Bergkamp (but even if he stays he won't figure in more than about a quarter of games next season), VP, Aliadiere, and Quincy (who also had a good game wide left). Given how many goals we've scored this season, and the extraordinary number of young attacking players we have (Ryan Smith and Lupoli will both be better next season too) I'm not sure we need to buy a striker. However, I can imagine Wenger loaning Quincy out and bringing a striker in. Speaking of loanees, I thought Bentley did ok. He seems physically stronger, tracked back well and put some dangerous and inventive balls into the box. I wonder what Wenger made of him? Having seen that I'm still of the opinion we should concentrate on a Keeper and either SWP or Joaquin (even Chelsea can't buy them both). Out go Lehmann, Ljungberg, Edu and Reyes (bad attitude to the opportunity he's been given, and a poor decision maker on the pitch - I just hope we get our money back). I'd be happy for Lauren to go to, as one of Eboue, Hoyte and Toure is bound to be better. I'd like us to keep Cole, and to play him left-midfield for a substantial number of games.
Mee
April 06, 2005
Tom - If you dont go away - I’ll get Roy Bentley to tell your mum.
Daz
April 06, 2005
Fair enough, so in order to illustrate the tiny issue of "being part of" which has now been explained to you ten million times, you judged it opportune to google, cut-and-paste and "forget" to source a great big lump of Hegel.Net.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Tom,have you got two brothers called Dick and Harry???
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
Rob K - understood. Not sure about you changing the rules but as you say lets hope it is a moot point. There does seem to be some difference between what you say and various suggestions/mission statements about expanding the membership etc. Anyway, thanks.
Myles Palmer
April 06, 2005
LAST WEEK I was saying to friends that if Ashley Cole was picked at left back against Norwich, he would stay at Arsenal.He started at left back, Arsenal beat Norwich 4-1 to go second on goal difference, and Arsene has said he wants Ashley to stay.A manager has to say that because there are eight games left to play.Ashley was booed at Highbury, but as Bob Dylan once said, "There's a little bit of boo in all of us."Thierry Henry scored a hat-trick and now has 181 goals for Arsenal.181 goals in such a short time is a mind-boggling total.FREDDIE scored with a header from ten inches.Last week's Sky stats by Rob Bateman showed that the second most efficient finisher in the Prem was Andy Johnson with a conversion ratio of 30.50 %.Pires was 5th with 28.60%Henry was 8th with 21.60 % and 102 shots.Who was the most clinical finisher in the Prem ?Who was the most clinical with 9 goals from 24 shots?Whose conversion ratio was 37.50% ?FREDDIE LJUNGBERG !!!!!Huckerby scored a great Thierry goal, a rocket shot from the left side after Pires pretended to tacback and playing like he's never been away. Arsene knows how to tune them up after rehab and bring them back at the right time.The manager admitted that the Brazilian has been badly missed for the last six months."The positive thing is when he didn't play, people realised how important he is and he became a more highly-rated player," said Arsene."It's not only because he protects the centre backs, it's also because he's good in the air and we have conceded many goals from crosses this season."It's a shame as sometimes people, who have real team attitude rather that a flashy one, only get that kind of recognition when they don't play. "People forget that Gilberto is a world champion, but he's a quiet guy and he doesn't want special attention.
Rob K
Rob_K_@hotmail.co.uk
April 06, 2005
EEG - I think you've misunderstood our role. When Steve passed away I accepted responsibility for keeping the site going. I have been very kindly helped by Rog & Niall. There are no 'dutys' or 'guardians'. We will apply the existing rules as we see fit but if necessary I will change the rules. I hope this is moot as I would rather leave the forum to its usual random-walk and not intervene at all.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
Nah Chocolate - it was you who used "football" as a comparitor. And it was a stupid one. The word "Zeitgeist" is a million times closer to "football culture" or "pop culture" or whatever type of term used to describe a movement than it is to "football" which is a ****ing simple noun. You used a stupid example. I used a better one from the same base. And one that was at least in some way relevant to the discussion. Daz was describing Nikola as being part of the Zeitgeist. To that end your use of "football" is typically dishonest.
Fred
April 06, 2005
Leave Tom D alone he has every right to gloat! Chelsea consider Arsenal their "derby match" they have been in our shadow since the Prem began and flunked in the old first divison. Personally I'm not offended. After the brillant season they are having it will be comedy award worthy entertainment watching them trying to repeat it!
chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005
EEG… no offence but you’re floundering. In what way are the words ‘zeitgeist’ and ‘football culture’ comparable. You might as well say that if someone were to ask you to define the word ‘family’ and you started by say that it means “being part of… …” ‘being part of’ isn’t wrong in every case!! If someone asks you define “Team”, “Nation, etc, etc you could very well use ‘being part of’ to define these words. That doesn’t make it right for every word and it most certainly doesn’t make it right for ‘Zeitgeist’… whether you’re using it as defined by the concise thingy or whether you use it as Hegel used it. That is the point.. the only relevant point. Cheers and goodnight. Really.
Cannon Balls
April 06, 2005
Who are the Chavs playing in the FA semi ???
Mee
April 06, 2005
Tom - here’s my number - 1955
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
But Chocolate - if in my original post I told someone they were part of the "football culture" and when asked what I meant by "football culture" I said I meant "being part of the social conditions attaching to the sport of football" it would take a proper ****** to say "part of" had no place in any definition of "football culture" and therefore my definition was wrong.
Spaz
April 06, 2005
It is indeed, Tom. Where are the moderators 'cos you're straying dangerously off-topic and you'll be in the doghouse with me soon.
Daz
April 06, 2005
The good thing is that you can be a fraction wrong in giving an explanation without making that explanation substantially wrong. So, like I've said, quite happy to accept that "being part of" is not included in the term itself but that the explanation given was sufficient to explain what it means. To pretty much everybody but you. When it comes to plagiarism, however, that's another matter- you can't plagiarise a bit - you either do or you don't. You did. And much to your discredit you insist there's nothing wrong with it.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
Xav T - My brother phoned and they do have lots - all at £45. I am in the £55 seats so hopefully that means the ones around me will be sold out. Why do I always let the bloke who is the most paranoid on Earth get the final/semi tickets? I always tell him to limit it at the cheapest but he is always paranoid they will sell out so does the open cheque thingy. So do many others no doubt which is how Arsenal manage to sell out all the more expensive ones. £55 for Blackburn in the semi!
Daz
April 06, 2005
Brilliant parody of a chelsea fan, Tom. I am a spazzed up morron for falling for it.
chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005
My initial pop as you put it was directed to Exiled and was entirely meant for him because he wanted to know why I had a problem with the dictionary definition… I told him. I thought you were the one talking about context? I told Exiled why I thought the explanation offered was a shallow one… what’s your problem? To Daz and Babu I made it clear that even on Concise thingymajig definition, the explanation offered was still wrong and it is WRONG. What’s your point? That it’s only a little bit wrong?… ho hum. Although the meaning of the word is utterly changed… it’s merely technical??? Squirrel monkey logic, I presume. Cheers. Goodnight
Xav T
April 06, 2005
By the way, guys, I went to Highbury this morning to collect my Boro ticket. I could see behind the window at the box office a huge pile of FA cup semi final tickets yet to be sold. I hope that I’m wrong but it may very well be that the few of us going to Cardiff will be surrounded by a lot of empty seats!
david.d
April 06, 2005
tom. give up now mate. your posts are embarrassing to say the least. as bernard pointed out how many championships have you won?
Daz
April 06, 2005
It's like white noise or a car alarm or the sound of a bass in three in the morning. Just give it up, you idiot, it's finished, stop trying to drag sophism back into it. You get your stuff from web-sites and you plagiarise it. End of.
Daz
April 06, 2005
That's a shame - Tom Dean's a funny prank and not a real person. Ure funny M8 -ne views on the zeitgeist, d'ya get me?
chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005
By the same token saying that Sophism isn’t philosophy given the dictionary definition of Philosophy and Sophism respectively is an even more reasonable proposition because that particular set of dictionary definitions brook no argument. Did you come up with particular argument at the time? Give it a rest. It isn’t reasonable to define a word wrongly when someone asks you directly for a definition. How is it reasonable to say that ‘food’ means ‘being part of sustenance or whatever’? or that ‘football’ means ‘being part of round leather ball that one kicks’? ‘being part of’ actively changes the meaning of the word. On the other hand if you use language like a squirrel monkey then.. may be this fairly obvious thing is a bit over your head. Cheers.
Daz
April 06, 2005
And hilariously, chocolate, you didn't offer that definition even when invited to. As I say, apart from too a wilful plagiarising idiot like yourself "being part of the time or spirit of the age" does not change the meaning significantly because everybody understood what I was talking about. Now I'm more than happy to concede that "being part of" referred back to what I was talking about and is not part of the substantial meaning of zeitgeist which is the spirit or attitude of the age - uberclear to anybody with half a brain. You denied anyway that something CAN actually belong to the zeitgeist when it is clear that a book or idea or piece of music or even fashion can and does belong to the spirit of the age. This is all a great big pile of steaming guff, wilful pedantry simply to conceal the fact that you cut-and-pasted your irrelevant material about "the geist" from a web-page, gave us a lecture like the patronising little turd that you are without acknowledging it and got caught, bang to rights, doing it. In my book that's a bit more of a howler.
Parkerknoll Gooner
April 06, 2005
Dear Tom, djiu mjdioou njgiuh njifoot nhfyyrun nhnsyuqbn! Dhjfujuirtjj kfllikhm ipgk kjsygh lpgio kjhsp mikdfo okf mok iisipog ildj!!! AHHFYYHGSVUV HFHFDTB! Is that clear enough for you, please excuse the shouting at the end.
East End Gooner
April 06, 2005
But telling Goonerguru that he was using "Zeitgeist" in a post TO NIKOLA to refer to her being part of the spirit of the time, as my friends the Squirrel Monkeys would have worked out without even having to divert their minds from the task of baring their teeth at four year olds, was entirely reasonable. You went off on one for no good reason and you are still doing it. Your initial pop had absolutely **** all to do with the "part of" and that being the thing you said linked it to fashion. You said it was all about this much deeper meaning (using your nicked quotes) and that to talk about Zeitgeist in the context of using text language was some kind of crime against the "Geist". That was the only real b******s spoken on the subject.
steve martin
April 06, 2005
Bernard, it's that stuff they give the players or used too anyway, Creatine, Chavs, have style (not), Chavs can't spell...
steve martin
April 06, 2005
So am I Tom Dean, so am I... Tell me, Tom, where did you get your Burberry cap and bling from...
Bernard
April 06, 2005
Bet you wouldn't have realised it had I not told you I had. By the way, what is 'createn'; it's a new one on me?
chocolate gooner
April 06, 2005
EEG… for the last time. Zeitgeist even by the concise thingy is defined as “the spirit of the age” or “the essence of an age” or even “attitude of an age”. Now it is not defined as being part of anything. “Being part of” entirely changes the meaning of the word … it makes it a ‘fashion’. You may well choose to consider this a minor change (God help your clients) but that isn’t the point… the one and only point is that the explanation offered to Goonerguru was WRONG and MISLEADING. And given that that explanation came from someone who professes to be very up with Western philosophical thought by virtue of his degree or whatever… I am right to expect a better appreciation of the word. That’s it. Not even a dusty Thesaurus tells us that ‘Zeitgeist’ means being “part of” anything. Context doesn’t come into it …but even if you drag in the issue of context, our Thesaurus doesn’t even say that the word ‘Zeitgeist’ means just ‘contemporary’ alone which makes its use in relation to Nikola’s post baffling, to say the least… and all this is just if we consider the ordinary rather sloppy usage of the word!!... not its deeper meaning. So talking about technical levels and context doesn’t get you very far. “Being part of the Spirit of an age”… and “Spirit of an age” do not mean the same thing. They can’t possibly mean the same thing… not to anyone with a brain… and I bet that if I’d said it your tune will be entirely different. But hey! you’re no lap dog. Now, if you have something really deep and interesting to add I'm willing to listen and learn otherwise.... let it lie. Cheers.
steve martin
April 06, 2005
Tom dean, more please, a very funny Chelsea fan, who keyboard keys are all over the place... Nuff said... Daz, nice to see your learning your place, one step below Tom Dean, JAJ...
adam and alex
April 06, 2005
we are sorry to hear about the news of steves death RIP Steve you are a true arsenal legend lets hope arsenal win the fa cup for you